SA Military Intelligence > Interviews > An interview with Vic McPherson regarding the bombing of the ANC offices in Lusaka on June 5, 1985.
Length of interview: 10 minutes 13 seconds
Audio file name/s of interview: AL3283_PTA_MCPHERSONVIC_20090209_2
Interviewer	Ons gesels weer met Vic McPherson. Ons wil met hom gesels oor die Lusaka-bom van die ANC-kantore wat opgeblaas is daarso.
Vic	Die bom het afgegaan die vyfde Junie 1985. ANC-kantore, Lusaka, Cha-cha Road.
Wat gebeur het is dat ons het ŉ Indiёr gehad wat ŉ skoenfabriek in Swaziland gehad het. Hy moes, of hy het op ŉ daaglikse basis of ŉ weeklikse basis het hy na die ANC-hoofkantoor in Lusaka gegaan en dan het hy saam met Joe Slovo in sy kantoor gesit en met al die topmense gesit en gesels en hy het hierdie skoenfabriek, dis sokkerskoene, tekkies, Batas al sy dinge wat hy toe verkoop het in Afrika.
Hy het so liggeel, nee, ligbruin leertas gehad. Toe sê hy vir my en ander kollega hy is in staat. Eintlik het ons hom gevra as jy elke week daar in Lusaka kom, hy vlieg vanaf Swaziland soontoe.
Elke week as jy daar kom, is jy bereid ons gaan vir jou ŉ bom in jou tas inbou, jy gaan niks sê nie.
Is jy bereid, en dit gaan twintig minute neem voordat die bom afgaan, is jy bereid om die tas in Joe Slovo se huis, se kantoor, sorry, per ongeluk te vergeet, dan betaal ons jou R20 000.
Die Asiatiese mense as hulle dollars sien is hulle vir alles beskikbaar,
Hy stem toe saam en ek en my kollega het dit geneem na spesmagte by speskop. Daar was ŉ majoor en hy het sy meestersgraad gehad in elektronika. So en ook plofstofkunde en daai goeters.
Ek gaan gee toe vir hom daai tas en hy sê dit is maklik. Weet jy, hy het daardie hele tas uitmekaar gehaal en in stukke gelê. Hy het twee ladings springstof, een op die plek waar jy hom oopmaak en een onder daarmee gelaai.
Dan het hy die ding so geprakseer dat jy die penne warmee jy die blaaiborde (om lesings te gee) het hy so pen gevat ook gelaai met springstof.
Dan het hy sy eie sakrekenaar, wat enige wiskundige probleem kon oplos, daarin was ŉ batterytjie en hy het daai ding gestel as jy net een viersyfers in en die oomblik wat dit ingedruk is begin die klok agteruit hardloop en op 20 minite later dan ontplof die sakrekenaar van hom en die elektries stuur ŉ skokgolf in die pen van die skryfbord in en skokogolwe deur daardie pen hardloop dan tot in jou bladspringstof dan ontplof daardie springstof.
Dit was so in die koerante die bom het afgegaan het, maar nie in Joe Slovo se kantoor nie.
My kollega is Swaziland toe. Nou het ons R15 000. Die bom het gewerk. Hulle het sulke staalplaatdeure om in te gaan en dan het daar drie terroriste die plek opgepas.
Daai bom... om terug te kom wat gebeur het hy nooit, hy het kantoor toe gegaan, maar sonder sy tas. Hy was in Joe Slovo se kantoor, maar sonder sy tas. Toe het hy geweet hy moet iets doen. Toe sluip hy negeuur die aand in die donkerte na Cha-cha Road toe.
Die tas so teen die plate gesit, die pincodes ingeslaan en binne 20 minute hardloop daai bom, vat die hekke weg . Dit is net een, twee verdiepinggebou, maar van sink , toe lug hy daardie hele gebou dat hy so gaap, dis nie major nie, maar die terroriste wat die plek opgepas het- drie stretcher cases. Hospitaal toe.
Maar nou het hy nie gedoen wat ons vir hom gesê het om te doen nie anders sou hy R20 000 verdien het. Gaan ons toe na hom toe om hom te betaal. Nee, die bom het afgegaan. Jy het nie gedoen wat jy belowe het om te doen nie. Jy het nie vir Joe Slovo doodgemaak nie, jy het sommer net die hekke en die dak weggeblaas. So ons gee jou nie R20 000 nie, maar net R15 000.
Nee, maar hy kan nie verstaan nie. Ek sê jy kan nie verstaan nie. Jy kry ŉ opdrag of jy maak ŉ belofte aan ons.
Jy weet, daardie Indiёr, die Waarheidskommissie het my gevra want sy kinders in Swaziland het kom vra hulle kan nie uitvind waar is hulle pa nie.
Sy pa het by ŉ vyfster-restaurant ingeboek en van ons mense, of hy sou besigheidsmense spreek. Hy het daardie nag net verdwyn. Hulle vra of ons hom doodgemaak het. Ek sê, nee. Miskien het die ANC hom doodgemaak. Miskien het hulle uitgevind hy werk vir ons.
Hy het net eenvoudig verdwyn. Daar was nie begrafnis nie. Daar was niks. Hy is moer toe.
Transcript: Download (46 KB)
Audio file name/s of interview: AL3283_MCPHERSONVIC_20090209_2
Interviewer	We are again talking to Vic McPherson. I want to talk to him about the Lusaka bomb when the ANC offices were blown up.
Vic	The bomb exploded on June 5, 1985. ANC offices, Lusaka, Cha-cha Road.
What happened was that we had an Indian who owned a shoe factory in Swaziland. He had to, or rather he visited the ANC offices in Lusaka on a daily and weekly basis and then sat down talking to Joe Slovo in his office and also with other top people.
He had light yellow leather, no light brown, case. He told me and other colleagues he could do the job for us. Actually we asked him when he arrives in Lusaka once a week- he flew from Swaziland. Every week you are there, are you prepared that we build a bomb into you leather case.
Are you prepared, and it would be twenty minutes before the bomb would explode, are you prepared to leave the case by accident in Joe Slovo’s office and we will pay you R20 000.
These Asiatic people, money means everything for them.
He agreed and we took his leather case to special forces headquarters at Speskop. There was a major with a master degree in electronics. Also an expert in explosives and other.
I then handed the case to him and he said it would be an easy job. You know what, he took that case toe pieces and lined the different sections out on a table. He packed two loads of explosives into the case- one there where you open it up and the other at the bottom of the case.
He used his own pocket calculator as a detonator. Once you pressed any four digits into the calculator, it would trigger the timing device starting to run backwards and after twenty minutes the calculator explodes creating a chain reaction to ignite the explosives.
It was reported in the newspapers that a bomb exploded, but it was not in Joe Slovo’s office.
My colleague then went to Swaziland. We had R15 000 for him. The bomb did go off. They had a kind of steel plated gates at the offices with three terrorists guarding the place.
Coming back to the bomb. He did go to Joe Slovo’s office, but without his leather case. He was in Slovo’s office, but without his case. He then realised he had to do something. That night at nine he sneaked back to Cha-cha Road.
The case was put against the entrance gate and the pin codes keyed in and after twenty minutes the bomb destroyed that steel plated front gate. It was a two storey building, but constructed with corrugated iron, the power of the explosion ripped the building apart. It was no big deal, but the three men guarding the premises were stretcher cases after the explosion. To hospital with them.
But he had not done what we requested of him otherwise he would have earned R20 000. We went to pay him and told him he did not kill Joe Slovo. You merely blew away the gates and the roof of the building.
You know, that Indian, the TRC asked me about him because his children in Swaziland requested the commission to find out what happened to their dad.
He had booked into a five start hotel for a meeting with businessmen. He disappeared that night. They wanted to know if we killed him. I said, no.
Maybe the ANC did it. Maybe they had found out that he was working for us.
He simply disappeared. There was no funeral. There was nothing. Moer toe.
Description: This interview with Vic McPherson, a former undercover policeman in the SAP Security Branch, regarding the bombing of the ANC offices in Lusaka on June 5, 1985, consists of an audio recording, transcript and English translation. This interview was conducted, transcribed and translated by De Wet Potgieter on behalf of SAHA in 2009.