Pro Regno boekrak: 2011-04-11 | Pro Regno
Pro Regno boekrak: 2011-04-11
Die nuuste uitgawe: “Hedendaagse verwarring oor waardes vir vroue”
2. Twee boeke om te lees om die Psalms en die sing van die Psalms weer te waardeer
Singing A New Song – Recovering Psalmsinging for the Twenty First Century, Joel Beeke (ed.)
Singing the Songs of Jesus – Revisiting the Psalms, Michael Lefebvre
3. Sien die volgende blog vir meer artikels en bronne oor die Psalms
4. Artikel oor die ‘heiligverklaring’ van Johannes Paulus II:
John Paul II: Blessed in the sight of God ?
5. Die Reformasie se siening van die pousdom:
6. John MacArthur oor die pous:
“By the way, those are the opening words in his last will and testament and in that will and testament after devoting himself to Mary, he (JP) said, “I place this moment…referring to the moment of his death…in the hands of the mother of my master, totus tuos. In the same eternal hands I leave everything and everyone to whom I have been connected by my life and my vocation, in these hands I leave above all the Church and also my nation and all of humanity.” He put his own life, the Church and the whole world in the hands of Mary. That is ridiculous, that is ludicrous. He says, “Each of us has to keep in mind the prospect of death. I too take this into consideration constantly, entrusting that decisive moment to the mother of Christ and of the Church, to the mother of my hope.” That’s paganism. That would nauseate Mary if she knew about it, and she doesn’t, she never heard a prayer from anybody ever…neither did any other saint. In notes included in his will, John Paul II quoted the words of a former Polish cardinal, “Victory when it comes will be a victory through Mary.”
And if you closely follow the preaching of this man, you can see that intense devotion to Mary in a message to the general audience, May of 1997. John Paul said, and I quote, “The history of Christian piety teaches that Mary is the way which leads to Christ.” When the assassination attempt, you remember, failed in 1981, I think it was, he credited Mary with saving his life. On the anniversaries of that assassination attempt, 1992, 1994, he made special pilgrimage to the shrine of our Lady of Fatima in order to offer ceremonial prayers of thanksgiving to Mary. He wrote a book, John Paul II’s Book of Mary. The ad copy inside the book says the book is for people, quote: “Who seek a deeper relationship with Jesus and His mother.” And the table of contents list all the titles that the Pope applied to Mary, “Gate of heaven, Mediatrix of all graces, Mirror of Perfection, Mother of the Church, Mother of mercy, Pillar of faith, Seat of wisdom.”
7. Frikkie oor die pous
Klik op die liedjies ‘Moenie dominee moenie’ en ‘Pous’
Posted in pro regno boekrak, psalms
« Van Riebeeckdag, 6 April 1652
Afbeeldings van Christus »
Moenie, Frikkie, Moenie!!!!
Het die Pous Frikkie geflous?
On Frikkie’s album I see he celebrates Christmas or at least sings about it as if he does.
Come on Slabbert isn’t this a Pagan Romish Feast honouring Nimrod, His Wife, his Mother-in-law and their dog Spot. Or Sol invictus or Dies Natalis or Pamperus Nappius or something ….
Is Frikkies’ song an elaborate piece of irony of satire?
I thought the lyrics rather beautiful (if a tad repetitive). Very Catholic, so I think he must be poking fun. As he does in his inimitable “Lat die Pous jou nie Flous”.
I thought this must be the case because I see Frikkie has the following lyric:
“Soos ons wat voor die krib kom kniel” . Huh, what is in the crib? -a statute of the Baby Jesus or is it just an empty crib or perhaps it is just poetic license.
If it is just poetic license it looks as if the Pope issued that license.
Kneeling in front of cribs? Empty, imaginary or otherwise? What is happening to the Reformation?
Sounds awfully Papist to me.
Do you think Frikkie knows that the devotions in front of the crib are only of medieval origin (one of the Catholic practices that doesn’t actually go back to the Early Church)? St. Francis of Assisi introduced the practice.
Looks like Frikkie could be a crypto-papist. Just pretending that he is against Rome while subtly introducing Catholic practices to the good Reformed folk.
And come to think of it why are you publicising his music. Makes me start thinking.
Have I missed something? Is my Afrikaans that bad?
Please explain! Is Frikkie in the tentacles of Rome or not?
Just. A. Wondering (your friendly local Papist.)
By: Christopher Cordeiro on April 12, 2011
Goeie een Christopher, vir ‘n ‘papist’ is jy nogal snaaks, hou die goeie humor daar, dan bly die gesprek oop en die brandstapels weg.
Christopher, die antwoord is eenvoudig, en jy weet dit: net soos daar dinge is waarmee ek met jou sal saamstem (bv die leer van die Drie-eenheid, pro-life, against homosexualism, no easy divorce, paedo-baptism, verwerping van liberale rooms-katolieke én protestantse teologie, etc), en waarmee ek nie saamstem nie (pous, ekstra kanoniek, maria, verlossing, roomse mis, feesdae, sang, ens); so is dit ook met my mede gereformeerde en protestantse broers, daar is dinge waaroor ons saamstem en nie saamstem nie.
Dit sal dalk ‘n goeie gesprek wees om rustig te besin waaroor rooms katolieke en protestante wel saamstem en nie saamstem nie.
Wat Frikkie se goeie musiek betref, wat ons as gesin baie geniet:
Daar is sekeres wat gunstelinge is, en andere waarna ons nie luister nie , sekeres omdat ons dit nie verstaan nie (ander tale) en sekeres omdat ons nie daarmee saamstem nie (kersfees liedjies), en daarom ‘skip’ ons sekere liedjies.
Jy doen dieselfde: jy lees sekere dele van Luther en Calvyn en kan daarmee saamstem, en ander dele stem jy nie meer saam nie (veral nie die dele wat hulle die Pous as die Antichris beskou nie).
Jou skrywe is ‘n vriendelike vermaning teenoor protestante om hul eie oortuigings en gebruike te ondersoek, om te sien of dit in lyn is met wat die Skrif leer en die gereformeerde tradisie in vashou.
So ek stem met jou saam, wat kersfees en paasfees betref, dalk is dit tyd vir Frikkie en baie ander protestante om die baba (krip en chrismass) saam die vuil badwater (die hele pousdom) uit te gooi, en op te hou om die pad na Rome lewendig te wil hou binne protestantse kringe.
Vir my sal dit ook beteken dat ek nie meer paaseiers moet eet nie … of ten minste minder !
Maar, ek het nog nooit daarop probeer roem dat ek 100 persent konsekwent is in al my denke en dade nie, ons sukkel almal om gehoorsaam te wees, so hoe meer ons gesels en besin, hoe meer help ons mekaar dalk daarmee.
Dankie vir jou bydrae, ek hoop dit sal my en ‘n paar ander protestante se oë laat opgaan om op te hou om die roomse tradisies lewendig te hou binne die protestantisme. Ek dink baie dinge en tradisies word deur protestante – soos deur baie rooms-katolieke mense, bloot uit onkunde en gewoonte gedoen.
Jou ‘onvriendelike’ plaaslike protestant
By: proregno on April 12, 2011
As Christen verheug ek my soos baie ander oor die menswording (incarnatione) van die Seun van God. Dit is ‘n sentrale wonderwerk in die geskiedenis van die ganse mensdom. Ons behoort dit eintlik elke dag te vier, dink ek. Die presiese dag waarop ek as Christen die inkarnasie vier is dus nie vir my so belangrik nie. Ons het gereformeerde vriende in Rusland wat dit iewers in Januarie vier. Die onderlinge afspraak onder ons kerke is dat die viering daarvan op ‘n spesifieke dag van die jaar aan die vryheid van die gemeentes oorgelaat word. Wat die kniel voor die krip betref sing ek daar vanuit die perspektief van die wyse manne uit die Ooste. Hulle het die kind mos aanbid soos Mattheus 2 vers 11 leer. So hierdie woorde gaan heelwat verder terug as Franciscus se middeleeuse tradisie. O ja, en ek moet sê dat ek myself definitief as katoliek beskou. Gereformeerd-katoliek. Nie Rooms Katoliek nie.
By: JFK Mulder on April 13, 2011
Little did I think that I would more than twenty years after grooving to the Afrikaans “protest” music of the GBB, Kerkorrel and Koos Kombuis to be listening to Reformed Afrikaans protest music.
I get the feeling that you would not perhaps be a fan of “alternatiewe” Afrikaans music so I hope I don’t offend you with that reference.
Yes, the words you use do go back before St. Francis. In general they come from the Nicene Creed. They are pretty much in line with the Hymn “Adeste Fideles” which uses many of the same lyrics. The English “O come all Ye Faithful” while lovely lacks the theological precision of the Latin original.
I do however think that as your song is in the present tense it does suggest that you are envisaging a scene in which you are kneeling before the crib and as I said that kind of action on Christmas Eve dates back to St. Francis. For reasons I set out below you will see that that has little to do with the visit of the Magi.
But as Arlo Guthrie said when asked ‘What do the lyrics of “American Pie” mean?’. “They mean I never have to work again” (because the song was so successful). The meaning of your song is for you to explain and I won’t argue with you about it.
I would suggest that you are confusing three events:
The Incarnation “menswording”: which took place 9 months before Christmas day, March 25. This is the Feast of the Annunciation. The events described in the later part of Luke 1. This is still a very important Catholic Feast day. Although I suppose the reason we don’t see more being made of it is that Woolworths and co. couldn’t find a good way to secularise it and turn a buck on it and of course Protestants in the main don’t celebrate it.
The Nativity: The actual birth of Christ.
The Epiphany: As Epiphany means manifestation it is three-fold feast that celebrates three of Christ’s manifestations:
To the gentiles during the visit of the Magi (traditionally the Three Kings). The three gifts point to Our Lord’s Divinity (Frankincense) Kingship (Gold) and sacrificial death (Myrrh). Therefore how he would be manifested. Traditionally the “Kings” are portrayed an African, a Caucasian and someone from the Middle-East to represent all the gentile peoples.
To the Jews, when He was baptized in the Jordan and a voice spoke from Heaven.
Of His power during the Wedding Feast at Cana – The beginning of His public ministry.
This feast is celebrated on the Twelfth Day of Christmas (On the twelfth day of Christmas my true love said to me ….) i.e. January 6th.
As Matthew 2 appears to indicate, the visit by the Magi took place sometime after the Birth of Jesus. We of course cannot know for sure.
To signify this break and keep true to scripture in Catholic churches the Kings are traditionally only added to the crib scene on the feast of the Epiphany. At home my kids have the Kings walking from afar i.e across the lounge and bring the King’s slightly closer each day until the Epiphany. They are quite keen for the Kings to arrive because we only give gifts on the Epiphany. Which is the custom in many Catholic countries. This keep the Christmas focus on Christ and not an X-box.
It is for that reason that I did not think that you could be referring to the Kings kneeling on Christmas Eve.
But as you point out there is such a thing as “liturgical time” i.e. It is not that important if Christ was born on the 25th of December or Incarnated on the 25th March or born in 1AD or 2BC or 3BC. But the fact that it actually happened.
For me it is also important that we commemorate it. The Feasts of the Church help someone like me to keep all of the events straight in my mind.
Catholics actually do celebrate the Incarnation every day. We do it at Mass and we do it three times (6am,12 midday,6pm) a day during the Angelus when we remember in prayer the Incarnation.
Your friend in Russia celebrates Christmas on January 7th because they follow Russian Orthodox calendar which uses the Julian and not the Gregorian calendar.
This is also the reason that generations of school boys have been confused by the Red October revolution that takes place in November.
The Julian calendar is slightly inaccurate and over time that slight inaccuracy assumes greater and greater proportions.
See the following article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar
Strangely, I am also not Roman Catholic. Such a term is meaningless. The term is historically of Anglican usage and by using it you are implicitly acknowledging that the Catholic Church is part (even the main part) of the visible Christian Church on earth. The Anglicans who used the term theologically believed that there were three branches of the Christian church, the Roman, the Orthodox and the Anglican.
If you do not want to use the term “Catholic” or “Catholic Christian” when speaking about me or my Church I would much rather you used the terms that your Reformed forbears used. Whore of Babylon, Romish church, Papist etc.
They are more consistent and truthful i.e. they show your true feelings about the Catholic Church.
As you are someone who has been validly baptized (I am assuming – one doesn’t know with some of these liberal dominees) in the Reformed church I happily embrace you as a fellow catholic (even a Reformed one – what is the English equivalent of Gerefromeerd?) who is not in full visible unity with the Catholic church.
God’s richest blessing on you and your ministry.
PS: I suppose I should also apologise for having a bit of fun at your expense, but you should really blame Slabbert, and it was meant and I think taken in the right spirit.
PPS: Well we are a few minutes away from Angelus time so away I go and a final God bless. “The Angel of the Lord declared unto Mary, And she conceived of the Holy Ghost ….”
By: Christopher Cordeiro on May 4, 2011
“… but you should really blame Slabbert …”
Ja jong, alles is mos die protestante se skuld … apartheid ook !
Jy’s reg as jy sê dat van die woorde in die lied gaan terug op die Belydenis van Nicea.
Oor die kwessie van terminologie verkies ek om nie te verwys na Rooms-Katolisisme as ‘n kerk nie, omdat geen kerk kan bestaan waar regverdiging deur die geloof alleen, nie gepreek word nie. Ek gebruik wel soos jy voorstel ook woorde soos pousdom ensovoorts.
By: JFK Mulder on May 21, 2011