Posted by: wonder-ma-net | 2007/04/23
Ek is 2-talig, maar as dit nou kom by sake van die hart, verkies ek maar my moedertaal want ek kan my beter daarin uitdruk.
2 jaar gelede het dit onder my aandag gekom dat my pragtige 18 jarige meisiekind in 'n verhouding is met 'n ander meisie - ek was asemloos van skok, het dadelik op "wolkie pille" gegaan net om my aan die gang te hou, maar nadat die ergste skok deur my gestel gewerk het, het ek terwille van haar, haar aanvaar net soos sy is, en haar bygestaan sover ek kon
Ek het in die 2 jaar baie geleer , of sal ek se, baie dinge deurgemaak waarvan die meeste negatief was. My eerste les was dat daar geweldige diskrimenasie teenoor gays is. Sy studeer in Pretoria en het aanvanklik in 'n comune gebly maar nadat die eienares uitgevind het dat sy gay is, is haar vriendin daar verbied en was die probleme legio sodat ek nie 'n ander keuse gehad het om ander verblyf vir haar te kry nie.
My tweede les wat ek geleer het, is dat die verhouding tussen gay mense ongelooflik gekompliseerd is....haar vriendin het haar verlede jaar met 'n ander meisie verkul en was die gevolge daarvan baie traumaties.. my dogter het probeer selfmoord pleeg, maar genadiglik het haar beskermingsengel oor haar gewaak.
Na 'n maand was die twee weer saam......maar verlede maand moes my dogter weereens die wrange vruge van verraad proe toe haar vriendin haar verneuk het met een van my dogter se "straight" vriendinne wat saam met haar studeer.
Moord was daar amper...my dogter het al haar vriendin se goed uit die woonstel gegooi, en die is toe vort om weer by haar Ma te gaan bly.
Ek moes weereens 'n stukkende mensie vertroos....haar moed ingepraat , en het sy saamgestem dat haar vriendin haar net gebruik, (sy het nie 'n motor of tans werk nie) en dat sy nooit sal verander nie, want dit is die tipe mens wat sy is. Helaas moes ek gisteraand van haar verneem dat hulle weer saam kuier.
Ek is moedeloos. Moedeloos oor die houvas wat daardie meisie oor haar het. Ek het altyd, om dit vir my makliker te maak om te aanvaar dat sy gay is, geglo dat 2 vrouens mekaar seker beter verstaan en daarom in 'n verhouding betrokke kan raak, maar is ek nou oortuig dat dit net nooit sal werk nie. In die eerste plek is daar geen sekuriteit soos in 'n gewone huwelik nie, in die tweede plek is vrouens baie emosioneel en tree dienooreenkomstig op; Daar sal nooit standvastigheid in so 'n verhouding wees nie. want daar is niks wat hulle bind nie.... en my vraag is bloot dit: Is alles die moeite werd om so koersloos deur die lewe te gaan, met geen vooruitsig van die gebondenheid en sekuriteit wat 'n huwelik tussen man en vrou kan bied nie??? Alles is vir my so sinneloos...so hopeloos so sonder enigiets positiefs...so asof daar 'n vloek uitgespreek is oor gay mense.
Miskien is daar iemand wat my anders kan oortuig?
Hi Wonder-Ma-Net, welcome to the forum and thanks for posting here. Like Deeve, I recall your previous post regarding discrimination by your daughter's landlord? At that time I think I referred you to a gay student organisation at Pretoria University? Either way, your very sincere care, compassion and concern for your daughter is evident.
Your post has already received great responses to which I can add very little. Remember that your daughter needs to learn from her own mistakes and her own experiences. By presenting as being too 'punitive' you stand the risk of alienating her. I'm wondering whether her girlfriend isn't a bit manipulative, and your daughter possibly a touch too dependent on her?
Your daughter is very young and even if she was straight is it possible that her relationships would be quite complex. I must disagree with you about same-sex relationships being unstable and lacking security, however. Not all same-sex relationships are tempestuous.
Posted by: vra-ma-net | 2007/04/26
I am overwhelmed by the response, which I had received, and want to thank each and every one for your insight, and precious advise. Believe me, it means a lot to me, knowing that there are still people who cares enough to find the time to reach out, trying to help.
Yes, I am indeed the same mother, seeking advice a year ago regarding the discrimination by my daughter’s Landlord, and it seems to me that I will visit this forum more often that I have thought.
I firmly believe that everything that happens in life happens for a reason. Life is bitter-sweet…the bitter is there to make you stronger, to grow, and the sweet is there to appreciate all your blessings.
I am however, in many ways my biggest enemy. I am over protective, and its not easy (almost impossible), just to let go, and to let her “be on her own” to face this big, big world with all its problems and heartache. I want her to feel safe happy and loved. I want her to feel special, unique, make the best of what she’s got. I want her to understand that she deserves only the best, that she must believe in herself and not allowing anyone to treat her nasty, without respect or for her girl friend to take her for a ride. Although she is a stunning beautiful girl, and in many ways strong and assertive, she is over sensitive and can over react sometimes which causes stress and depression.
If I may, I want to give my opinion (not my advise) about “the closet cases”. I have accepted my daughter because this is who she is. I cannot change her, nor can I expect from her to live her life a lie. This is cruel … denying your own existence, who you really are. Saying this does not mean it’s easy for me - still hoping (wishful thinking) that she will marry a man some day, have children in live happily ever after. But, and this is a big BUT, no person has the right to force, or expect another to change the way you want him/her to be. We can better ourselves, but we cannot change who we are.
Wishing you all the best , and thank you once again listening to me–
Reply to vra-ma-net
Posted by: Nikki | 2007/04/24
Ek dink meeste het REEDS vir jou die antwoorde gegee en as ek net iets kan byvoeg.
Daar is geen verskil tussen n gay of hetero verhouding nie. Probleem is dat mense altyd gay verhoudings as negatief beskou. Die gedurige skuld gevoel lei baie daartoe dat sulke verhoudings skade lei.
My eie dogter het ook dieselfde situasie en is in n gay verhouding waar geweld (JA GEWELD) die orde van die dag is. Sy moes onlangs spesiale tandheelkunde ondergaan om skade te herstel. TOg bly hulle bymekaar en tog is hulle lief vir mekaar.
Die dag as die GEMEENSKAP ophou oordeel en verag, daai dag sal gay verhoudings n beter kans staan om te oorleef.
EK wil ook voorstel dat jy as ma, sorg dat jy haar te alle tye ondersteun. Ek dink ook dat jy nooit moet "het jou gese" voor haar kom gooi nie. Dit verhoog die druk en laat haar net verder twyfel in haar eie vermoe om lief te he en vir haarself lief te wees.
Posted by: NatureFreak | 2007/04/24
Ek is baie dankbaar dat jy hier kom raad vra het en ek hoop werklik dat jy beter sal voel na almal hul opinies lig en bietjie raad gee! Jou dogter is baie bevoorregd dat jy haar altyd bystaan en haar elke keer soortvan optel en weer bymekaar sit...pasop net dat jy jou meisiekind nie te veel van haar vriendin afraai nie! My oudste suster het meer aan die ouens geklou wat nie my ouers se goedkeuring weggedra het nie as wat sy werklik wou...moenie my verkeerd verstaan nie, ek se nie jou dogter trek rebel nie, al wat ek se is, wees daar vir jou dogter maar gee haar die kans om haar eie opinie te vorm oor die meisie! Liefde is wel blind!! Sy sal wel eendag op 'n stunning vrou afkom en besef dat sy baie beter verdien as wat haar nou al 'n paar keer toegedien is!
Ek stem nie heeltemal saam oor die bond nie...kinders is nooit en sal nooit die rede wees hoekom twee mense mekaar lief het nie...soooo baie mense dink, kinders of die stukkie papier sal sorg dat hulle verewig bymekaar bly....die teendeel en die hoe skei syfer is 'n bewys dat dit nie so is nie!
Ons almal word groot (en word grootgemaak) om eendag te trou en kinders te kry....en dit word beskou as ons toekoms....ons doel op aarde....wel ek voel anders! Daar is genoeg mense op die aarde, al doel wat ek en my lewensmaat het is om gelukkig te wees en mekaar lief te he, met alles wat ons het!
Ek weet nie hoe goed jou verhouding is met die vriendin nie, maar probeer tog om haar nader te trek...jy ken die gesegde: keep your friends close, but your enemies closer!!!
Baie baie sterkte en asb hou ons op hoogte!
Posted by: Chameleon_boy | 2007/04/24
I am afrikaans as well, but i will try to express myself in english.
If you read my posting about my issues, you will notice that i have some unresolved issues myself, but after a long chat last night with my bf, we have been together for more than a year now and previously i was well, falling around and falling in the arms of men who hurt me so. The last guy i dated before my current bf cost me about R3,000 in three weeks. so yes unfortunatly there i must say i was a victim of it myself, love is blind. And i did not have the willpower to go on for 6 months afterwards. Then i found out during these three weeks we were together he cheated on my numerous times.
Well what i wanted to say was after a long chat last night with my boyfriend, we determined the big reason for all my anxiety (and i am seeing a therapist regarding this) is the fact that i cant be who i want to be with my friends and family. We dont live together but believe me, i love him with all my heart and will rather kill myself before i hurt him.
Be glad that you can talk to your daughter, i wish truely that i can be as open towards my parents as she is to you. Support her in all you can dont try to make her see what is wrong with the other girl, it will happen when it is supposed to happen, just be there for your daughter, a mothers love is as important as the one you love with all your heart.
So ma'am, this is my story and i wish you all the best for the future and good luck to your daughter!!
Posted by: Deeve | 2007/04/24
I recall your postings in the past about your daughter's problems at her commune. I guess this is the same partner?
The Expert will somehow be able to sum up an answer to you in far less words than I can, but I really would like to give my five cents worth.
Dyl has already said it..."We fall in love and love a person for who they are, not for what sex they are." Gay relationships are absolutely no different to Heterosexual ones, the difference in my books is that you have to work even harder, as there IS nothing that binds a couple other than their love, emotional bond, and sheer commitment to each other. Yes two Guys or two girls together can bring many other interesting challenges to a relationship, but nothing that isn't fairly normal in lifes broad spectrum. There are hundreds of Gays in VERY long term, stable relationships. Your daughter is still very young, and may have many girlfriends before setling down. Maybe this girl just isn't right for your daughter, and she still hasn't figured this..? Unfortunately this turmoil in your life has led you to believe that same sex couples can never be happy. Yes its true, some never settle and find happiness...that's not something that you or I can sort for them. Others do find complete happiness, be it single, or with a long term partner.
All I can suggest, is that you forget about the fact that your daughter is Gay, and give her all the support and love that a Mother would. Try and guide her with your wisdom as a Mother, ...you will never be able to make, or wish her straight. Being Gay is, and NEVER was a choice.....the predudice that your daughter has already endured should prove all of this to you. Please just shower her with support and Love...I'm sure that's all she needs. Regards
P.S - please look at the forums 'series of articles' - there are many there that may help you better come to terms with your daughters lifestyle, including one from a mother who wrote about her child coming out to her. Best wishes
Posted by: Dyl | 2007/04/24
Firstly, this IS NOT a gay thing. You hear all too often about married couples that cheat on each other, abuse one another and intentionally hurt one another. So let’s not confuse the issue.
To answer your question, if I understand it correctly (sorry my Afrikaans, although not bad, is not excellent). There are and always will be those people who feel they are only worth something when they are in a situation, be it good or bad.
To give you an example, my sister married a guy who in there first week of dating him, he stabbed her with a screw driver. He later tried to kill her, and when he didn’t succeed he killed himself.
She then went on to marry a second abuser. Both physically and emotionally. He was murdered in a bar brawl when he tried to pick up another woman and got violent when she turned him down.
She is now in a relationship with a married man, has his child, and doesn’t understand why he doesn’t leave his wife for her.
You say you are certain that there will never be security in a gay relationship (again, I could be misunderstanding you) I disagree; my partner and I have been together a few years now, with plenty of security in ourselves and in our relationship. There are a couple of words you used that I don’t understand (dienooreenkomstig,) you say there is nothing binding them together. I’m not sure if you mean this literally between them or gay people? But one thing we all need to remember. We fall in love and love a person for who they are, not for what sex they are. If you look around you will find that most lasting relationships, being straight or gay, there is more of an emotional bond in the partnership than a sexual bond.
Anyway, like I said. I may have misunderstood your posting all together but I hope my reply helps in some way.