Ouma Bettie Visser & Ouma Mietjie Fredericks – Onthouers | Rememberers
Ouma Bettie Visser & Ouma Mietjie Fredericks
Extract from Transcription of a recorded interview with Ouma Bettie Visser and Ouma Mietjie Fredericks, conducted by Martin Mössmer
BV= Ouma Bettie Visser
MF=	Ouma Mietjie Fredericks
MM	You can, I think before we start with the language, can you perhaps tell me about yourselves, where you come from and where you grew up and so on – your own stories about yourselves.
MF	From the farm.
BV	I grew up on a farm here, uh over there [points], the name of that place is Aterten [the farm Atherton -29.025253377614405,23.796043395996097]. I was born there and I grew up there, here in Douglas, yes.
MM	Where is the farm?
BV	The plot [smallholding] over there [both point], Aterten.
MM	Oh yes, I saw the sign.
MF	[indistinct] There at Rolands [?]
BV	I was born there, I grew up there.
MM	And where did Ouma go to school?
BV	I didn’t go to school, meneer.
MM	I remember Ouma told me last time that you went away from home to go and work when you were fifteen?
BV	Yes, then, then we did, I did not have a father to care for me and we just had to go and work…
BV	… to stay alive, yes.
MF	I was born in Withuis [farm west of Breipaal, -28.97781034119288,23.619918823242188] here [points], a farm…
MM	Near here as well?
MF	… in Withuis.
MM	Is it on the way to Campbell?
MF	On the way to Griek’estad. [Griekwastad]
BV	No, it’s the Griekw’stad-road.
MF	I grew up there before I went to school in Bucklands and from the school I went to work.
MM	How old was Ouma when Ouma started work?
MF	When I was fifteen I started work.
MM	Okay. And where did Ouma work then?
MF	Here in town, I slept in, then I went to [visit] my parents… the boere were very strict at that time…
MF	… when your mother lived there you couldn’t live there as well, you had to… find yourself a place…
MM	And go back?
MF	…you could only go back and forth at weekends.
MF	I slept in there, I had Saturdays off, on Saturday afternoons I came back, but, when I was in my room and my mother needed something I spoke to my white woman [employer] and they allowed me to go home and come back.
MF	This is how I grew up and how He [God?] showed me the Griekwe-language, how you had to speak with the… what you have to ask, what you have to say. I listened and said, ‟Oh no, when I am grown I will take notice of what the Grukwa-language is about. I was born a Griqua…
MF	… and I am proud of that.
MM	From whom did Ouma learn the language?
MF	From my mother
MM	Ouma’s mother.
MF	My late mother.
MF	And then I learnt some more from this ouma [BV]. She instructs me now and then, when I don’t have the right word, she provides it…
MM	That’s good.
MF	… shows me. Yes, you must have an anchor that can… support you.
MM	And a language is something you have to use with one another, with different people.
MF	Yes, we use it… My ouma spoke to me, ‟The old khoep [‘man’] is… ǃaba [‘look’] [inaudible] khoep.” Like that.
MF	Then the two of us ǃ’hoa [‘talk’] about khoep [‘man’] and taras-e [‘women’].
MM	That’s good
MF	That’s how I grew up, and how I learnt, and she coached me. And so I stood, and sat and did what she told me. And I did everything I was told. Do you see? And if I have something to tell her, or she has something to tell me, she tells me and I listen and I show her how we have to live and behave. That is why we are two sisters. She is actually my big cousin, my old big cousin, but now she is my mother, my sister and everything… in this life
MF	Yes. [inaudible]
MM	And Ouma’s parents, your mother and father, where were they from? Also from Douglas?
MF	They were from Douglas as well.
MF	They were from Douglas too. Came from the… also came from the Griekiestad-region, over there [pointing], then they came to live here, and they died here, they were buried here and we grew up, grew up alone, but we survived, we carried on with life.
MM	Hmm. How old is Ouma now?
MF	I am sixty four.
MM	Sixty four. And ouma Bettie?
BV	[looking at something out of shot] (Oi… hell)
MF	(Oh, well now young man…)
MF	(…where’s the water)
BV	Wait wait wait [gets up and leaves]
MF	I don’t know what [inaudible] what the ouma…
So the little khoep-s [‘man’] still have to ǃ’anǃa [?], be instructed, kh’ei [sic ǃã ‘listen’] now with their mũku [‘eye’, sic ǁnãump ‘ear’], this… this uh [points to ear]
MM	Ouma must speak a little louder, this machine is deaf.
MF	I am speaking to the children who are listening
[inaudible] their mothers are all Grukwa-women, like I am, their parents know about the languages. They pretend like young people do, take no notice, but one day when they too have to walk with a walking stick they will understand what it is about…
MF	… then it will be too late.
MM	Yes, that’s true.
MF	So you have to make an effort now and learn [the language] now.
MM	Get a spanking…
… to make you learn.
MF	Learn during your youth, the Grukwa-youth should learn.
MM	While they are as old as this [indicating the children sitting around and listening]
MF	Yes. It is actually better when they are this age.
BV	Seventy, did you hear?
MM	Julle kan, ek dink voordat ons met die taal begin kan julle vir my miskien vertel, net oor julle self vertel, waar julle vandaan kom en waar julle groot geword het, en so, julle eie storie van julleself
MF	Van’ie plaas uit
BV	Ek het ‘ier op ‘n plaas grootgeword, uh, hiérso [points], daai plek se naam is Aterten [farm ‘Atherton’, -29.025253377614405,23.796043395996097], daa’t ek gebore, daa’t ek grootgewor, hie’ in Douglas, ja
MM	Waa’ is’ie plaas?
BV	Die plot hiérso [both point], Aterten
MM	Ó, ja, ek het die bord gesien
MF	[indistinct] Daar by Rolands [?]
BV	Daa’t in ek gebore, daa’t ek grootgeword
MM	En waa’t ouma skool geloop?
BV	Ek het’ie skool gegaan’ie, meneer
MM	Ek onthou laas het ouma gesê op vyftien het ouma gaan werk, weg van’ie huis af
BV	Ja, toe toe, ons h’t, toe het ek mos nou nie pá nie wat my kan sorg nie, toe moet o’s net gaan werk…
BV	…om te lewe, ja
MF	Ek h’t in Withuis [-28.97781034119288,23.619918823242188] gebore, hier [points], h’n plaas…
MM	Ook hie’ naby?
MF	… in Withuis
MM	Is ‘it op pad Campbell toe?
MF	Griek’estad [d.w.s. Griekwastad] toe
BV	Nee, ‘is hie’ Griekw’stad-pad
MF	Hie’t ek kom grootwor’e voor raak ek in Bucklands in groot, daa’t ek skool gegaan, en daar uitdie skool uit wèrk toe
MM	Hoe oud was ouma toe ouma gaan werk het?
MF	Toe’s ek loop werk was ek vyftien jaar oud, loop werk ek
MM	Oukei. En waar’t ouma toe gaan werk?
MF	Hie’ in’ie dorp in, dan slaap ek ìn, dan gaa’t ek’ie ouers… die boere was mos daai tyd baie kwaai gewees…
MJ	…jy kannie as jou, as jou ma-goed daa’ bly, jy o’k daar loop bly nie, jy moet… vir jou ‘n plekketjie kry…
MM	Terug gaan?
MJ	…wat jy kan net naweke kóm en gààn
MF	Daar ek nou ìn gelsaap, Saterdae gaan ek àf, Saterdagmiddag kom ek weer op, maar, dan’s ek by die kamer, dan iets is by my ma kort, dan praat ek hie’met my blanke vrou, dan vat ons hulle af dan kom ons terug
MF	So’t ek gróótgewor’e, en so’t hy [God?] my altyd maar’ie Griekwetaal ingewys, hoe moet jy gepraat met die… wat moet jy vra, wat moet jy sê, so luister ek maar, sê ek, “O nee, ander dag as ek groot wor’e, dan sal ek notìèsie vat waaroor gaan die Grukwataal. Dis wat ek daarin ‘n Griekwa gebóre is…
MF	…en ek is trots daarop
MM	By wie het ouma die taal geleer?
MF	By my ma
MM	Ouma se ma
MF	My oorlede ma
MF	En toe kom leer ek verder by die ouma [BV]. Hy sker-, hy skerp my so in nou en dan, as ek uit is dan skerp hy my in…
MM	Dis goed
MF	…wys hy my in. Ja, jy moet anker het wat jy kan… op steun
MM	En ‘n taal is iets wat mens met mekaar moet gebruik, met verskillende mense
MF	Ja, gebruik o’s hom… Dan praa’ die ouma met my, “Die ou khoep [‘man’] is… ǃaba [‘kyk’] [inaudible] khoep [‘man’]” Sien, so
MF	Dan ǃ’hoa [‘gesels’] o’s tweetjies hie’ oor’ie khoep [‘man’] en taras-e [‘vrou(ens)’]
MF	So groei ek op, so skerp ek in, so maak hy my slyp, en so staan ek op, so sit ek, so doen ek, wat hy my sê, en ek maak als wat hy my sê. Sien? En as ek ‘n ding, as hy ‘n ding op sy ha’[r]t het dan sê hy weer vi’ my dan luister ek, dan gaan ek, dan wys ek hom weer o’k ìn, hoe moen o’s lewe en hoe moen o’s is, so daarvoor is o’s twee, o’s is twee susters, di’ my, hy my groot niggie e’ntlik, daai’s ‘ou my gróót niggie, maa’ nou’s hy my ma, hy’s my suster, hy’s alles…in’ie lewe in
MF	Ja [inaudible]
MM	En ouma se ma-hulle, ma en pa, waar was hulle vandaan? Ook van Douglas?
MF	Hulle’s óók van Douglas
MF	Hulle’s o’k van Douglas. Kom daar uit die, o’k uit die Griekiestàd-wêreld uit, dà’rrr [pointing], toe’t kom bly hulle nou hierso, hier’t hulle gestèrwe, hier’t hulle gebegràwe, en ons groei maa’ óp, so alleen óp, maar o’s lewe daa’ in, o’s gaan aan me’ die lewe
MM	Mmm. Hoe oud is ouma nou?
MF	Ek is nou vier-en-sestig
MM	Vier-en-sestig. En ouma Bettie?
BV	[looking at something out of shot] (Oi… hèl)
MF	(O, mannetjie o’k nou toe…)
MF	(…waa’ die water)
BV	Wag wag wag eers [gets up and leaves]
MF	Ek weet’ie wat [inaudible] met die ouma
So die khoep-etjies [‘man’-etjies] moe’ nog ǃ’anǃa [?] word, ingeskerp word, kh’ei [sic bedoel ǃã ‘luister’] nou met hulle se mũku [‘oog’, bedoel ǁnãump ‘oor’], ‘ier’ie-e [points to ear] [d.w.s. hierdie-e]
MM	Ouma moet bietjie harder praat, die masjien is doof
MF	Ek praat me’ die kenders wat so luister
[inaudible] hulle se mamas is alman Grukwavrouense, en ek, hulle moet, hulle ouerse weet van die tale. Hulle maak nou maa’ net hulle’s djongmenses mos, vat’ie notiesie maa’ naand van dae as hulle kom me’ die kierie loop nou sal hulle verstaan waaroor gaan dit…
MF	…an’s ‘it te laat
MM	Ja, dis reg
MF	So’s nòù om op te staan, dis nòù om te leer
MM	Pak slae kry
Laat julle leer
MF	In’ie jeug in leer, die Grukwajeug leer
MM	Waneer hulle sò oud is, so [indicating the children sitting around and listening]
MF	Ja. Dit is eintlik beter as hulle sò is
BV	Séwentig, hóór?