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Technical Section => Make / Model Specific Discussions => BMW 1200 LC => Topic started by: paulb on August 12, 2013, 12:40:59 pm
Title: BMW engin oil
Post by: paulb on August 12, 2013, 12:40:59 pm
Had my LC serviced on Friday , more than R250.00 per liter oil :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: BMW engin oil
Post by: Skip_ZA on August 12, 2013, 01:28:39 pm
Post by: paulb on August 12, 2013, 05:32:25 pm
Post by: Skip_ZA on August 13, 2013, 08:26:19 am
Post by: AntVan on August 13, 2013, 08:32:10 am
Post by: lecap on August 13, 2013, 08:32:54 am
Gosh I sell synthetic Ravenol Moto 5W40 for R 72/l. Guess I'll never be rich ::)
Post by: jj le roux on August 17, 2013, 03:54:20 pm
Post by: Bring It On on August 17, 2013, 05:28:15 pm
How the HELL can this be justified??? WTF!!! :o
Post by: fredda on August 18, 2013, 05:30:31 pm
Post by: Skip_ZA on August 19, 2013, 07:22:15 am
Maybe they should just ask before throwing it in. But i would pay for the better oil :thumleft:
Post by: lecap on August 19, 2013, 09:06:35 am
Post by: paulb on August 20, 2013, 04:50:08 pm
Post by: BennNevis on August 20, 2013, 09:59:47 pm
Post by: lecap on August 21, 2013, 10:36:03 am
Clever ne ???
Post by: AntVan on August 21, 2013, 03:51:49 pm
Post by: paulb on August 28, 2013, 10:00:59 am
Just got a call from the dealer , they have a credit for me :thumleft: :thumleft: :thumleft:
Post by: AntVan on August 28, 2013, 10:20:26 am
Post by: lecap on August 28, 2013, 12:04:14 pm
Post by: Copernicus on August 28, 2013, 02:21:08 pm
Post by: AntVan on August 28, 2013, 03:35:32 pm
Post by: punisher on August 28, 2013, 09:19:19 pm
whats the 'credit" .. some more "lube" ( Vaseline) ;D
Post by: Bundu on August 28, 2013, 10:17:09 pm
Post by: paulb on August 29, 2013, 06:19:19 am
Yes a money credit , I asked them to keep it for my next service. :thumleft:
Post by: lecap on August 29, 2013, 08:19:49 am
BMW on call will bring it? :peepwall:
Post by: AntVan on August 29, 2013, 09:58:11 am
Post by: Slaaiblaar on August 29, 2013, 10:34:01 am
Post by: lecap on August 29, 2013, 12:53:37 pm
Post by: Crankshaft on September 10, 2013, 10:48:58 pm
Ek het 'n complaint by BMW SA ingegee en die dealer wat my overcharge, bel my en se dat die ander een 'n calculation fout gemaak het en kon my nooit soveel vra nie. MAAR in dieselfde woorde weier hy om my 'n discount/refund te gee vir die overcharge. Net van daai dag af het ek besluit ek sal hulle nooit weer support nie. >:(
Post by: HermanH on September 11, 2013, 06:22:31 am
Post by: AntVan on September 11, 2013, 08:12:32 am
Post by: Crankshaft on September 11, 2013, 07:48:37 pm
Post by: paulb on September 12, 2013, 05:03:35 am
Post by: HermanH on September 12, 2013, 06:17:35 am
Post by: Crankshaft on September 12, 2013, 08:23:23 am
Ek verstaan dat die 5W40 is vir die kouer lande. Ek's net bang jy gooi die 10W40 in en dan draai BMW om wanneer iets fout gaan en se sorry, jy het verkeerde olie ingegooi en jou engine het nie warranty nie. :deal:
Wat dan??? :eek7:
Post by: Crankshaft on September 12, 2013, 08:27:02 am
Post by: HermanH on September 12, 2013, 09:06:18 am
Post by: DavidMorrisXp on September 12, 2013, 09:18:22 am
Post by: paulb on September 12, 2013, 09:21:41 am
Post by: lecap on September 12, 2013, 09:39:57 am
If you use any other oil EVEN WITH THE SAME SPECS (synthetic JASO MA SAE5W40, I sell this stuff from Ravenol for R 72 per litre) :o and the bike develops clutch problems issues BMW will not fix it under warranty.
BTW I have spoken to a sales rep at Castrol SA and made them aware of the situation. They are currently not selling the Power1 in 5W40 in SA but this might change in the future. Probably more likely than BMW dropping the silly oil recommendation ???
Post by: Crankshaft on September 12, 2013, 05:53:06 pm
Post by: AntVan on September 12, 2013, 06:55:20 pm
Post by: Brodes on September 12, 2013, 07:58:43 pm
Post by: buzzlightyear on September 12, 2013, 08:11:28 pm
Post by: AntVan on September 12, 2013, 09:45:48 pm
Post by: paulb on September 13, 2013, 06:11:40 am
Post by: Crankshaft on September 13, 2013, 08:03:19 am
Never mind die kinders... Dit kan nog 'n tenk vol petrol maak vir 'n lekker trippie. Dis mense met te veel geld wat so praat. :pot: :imaposer:
Post by: AntVan on September 13, 2013, 10:40:01 am
Post by: Foxhond on October 28, 2013, 09:10:30 am
Post by: Crankshaft on October 28, 2013, 09:53:50 am
Ja weet jy, met BMW is enige iets moontlik.... :deal:
Post by: ADVENTURE HUNTER on October 28, 2013, 10:58:24 am
Ja ek dink dis `n helse ripoff, ek het my 2013 gsa vir sy eerste diens gevat en dit was R1100 wat nie te sleg was nie. Laas week vat ek toe my 2011 gsa vir sy 30 000km diens :eek7: :eek7: :eek7: en kry ek toe `n lekker surprise, kyk wat charge hulle my vir die enjin olie :confused2:
Post by: Foxhond on October 28, 2013, 02:38:26 pm
Post by: Lord Knormoer on October 28, 2013, 07:30:15 pm
Post by: Foxhond on October 28, 2013, 10:09:04 pm
Post by: AntVan on October 28, 2013, 10:29:44 pm
Post by: BikerJan on October 29, 2013, 05:57:35 am
Post by: Foxhond on October 29, 2013, 11:56:26 am
Post by: lecap on October 29, 2013, 12:37:39 pm
It's not about the price of the oil it's about the fact that BMW specifies ONE BRAND of oil to be used for which they currently seem to have the supply monopoly in SA. ???
The product can be had for around R 105 per litre retail overseas: http://www.ebay.de/bhp/castrol-power-1-racing-5w40 (http://www.ebay.de/bhp/castrol-power-1-racing-5w40)
I also don't know if the price of R 250 per litre is genuine since I read it somewhere on the internet ::)
Post by: Lord Knormoer on October 29, 2013, 01:18:36 pm
However, steering dampers is a completely seperate issue :pot:
Post by: Foxhond on October 29, 2013, 02:17:48 pm
Shoe! Fellows, rustig, kalmeer en ontspan. :3some:
Post by: Lord Knormoer on October 29, 2013, 02:31:27 pm
PS: :) - just so we all know not to take it too serious ;)
Post by: Crankshaft on October 29, 2013, 03:49:44 pm
Quote from: Foxhond on October 29, 2013, 02:17:48 pm
Manne, manne, manne, julle baklei verniet. Ek het hierdie selfde probleem in Junie op die forum gehad en die ouens het my uitgehaal omdat ek gekla het oor die olie se prys wat 'n rip off is. Daar was manne ook gewees wat gese het as jy 'n LC wil koop moet jy die kostes en maintenance kan betaal. Maar soos ek oop probeer se het, dit gaan nie oor die diens of workmanship nie, dit gaan oor die feit dat BMW SA hulle klient 'n groot wortel gee en se hulle moet maar betaal.
Die beste van alles is, my quotes (verbal ongelukkig) wat ek gekry het, was goedkoper as wat die invoice was EN DONFORD se service pryse was duurder as AUTO ATLANTIC... Hoe verstaan jy dit. Ek het selfs so ver gegaan om 'n klagte in te dien by BMW SA en Donford het my gekontak om te se dat hulle kan onder geen omstandighede sien hoe Auto Atlantic 'n goedkoper quote kan gee as hulle sin nie. En weereens, geen probleem om vir 'n diens te betaal nie, dit net daai fokken mal prys van die olie...
Ek het ook vir Lube Marketing gebel. Hulle het ook aan my bevestig dat dit net BMW is wat die 5W40 inbring direct van Castrol oorsee.
Hierdie is vrae wat 'n ou gaan moet vra vir hulle die 10de November wanneer hulle die LC dag het by Donford.
Post by: Foxhond on October 29, 2013, 05:35:22 pm
Om dit makliker te maak, kom ons vegeet van wat dit kos en die prys van olie:
Eintlik al wat ek wil/wou weet: Ek is ń "die hard" Motul fan, en glo dis die hond se ballas as dit by olie kom... Lol.
Wat presies verstaan julle meer tegniese honde onder "recomends" soos duidelik in die handleiding gedruk?
Beteken dit dat dit bloot ń voorstel is, of dat dit bmw se eerste keuse is, of dat dit absoluut die enigste olie is wat jy mag gebruik? Onthou ek verwys net na die naam Castrol, nie die nr's en dinge nie.
Alle ander fietse wat ek al gehad het, het net vereis dat jy n olie gebruik wat aan n sekere spesifikasie voldoen, ń JASO en of AP gradering.
Ek kan verstaan dat bmw miskien net hierdie olie in die fabriek insit en dus aanbeveel indien die fietse hier kom en aangevul moet raak, dat handelaars nie verskillende olies meng nie?
Miskien kan ń BMW tegnikus dalk hiermee help...
Ek het al vrae gevra maar kon nie ń konkrete antwoord by die handelaar kry nie?
Post by: Lord Knormoer on October 29, 2013, 05:40:29 pm
Ons gooi daai vraag in die hoed alvorens 'n klein apie iets verskrikliks aanvang :imaposer:
Post by: lecap on October 30, 2013, 10:12:55 am
Quote from: Lord Knormoer on October 29, 2013, 02:31:27 pm
I strongly recommended to Castrol SA to add the 5W40 Power 1 Racing to their program.
Maybe some of you phone them and do the same.
Especially since the day will come when you want to service your bike yourself and maybe you don't want to buy some riffraff oil from a shit stirrer like me :lol8:
Unfortunately the market still shows reluctance towards the newer lower viscosity oil types and plenty of people still believe they must use some 20W50 bitumen in their engines just because we live in Africa and it's pretty warm outside ::)
Post by: COLES on November 09, 2013, 04:03:40 pm
On the 5th Oct my LC was serviced and i have just noticed that i have been charged R1088.60 for four units of oil (POWER 1RACIN ) atR272.15 per unit without vat
I will most defiantly call the P E dealer on Monday
Post by: BennNevis on November 09, 2013, 11:22:08 pm
Price of oil is discussed on uk gser and there the pay
I read on the bottle that is was jointly developed by BMW and Castrol
Post by: TheBear on January 09, 2014, 10:16:08 am
The wife's LC just received the 1000km service. Total bill was R1200. Oil about R400. ???
Post by: Lord Knormoer on January 09, 2014, 10:20:17 am
That's really good news, I am creeping up in the 10k service. :(
Not sure what changed though, all relevant indicators dictate an increase.
Maybe BMW just dropped the margin >:D
Post by: BennNevis on January 11, 2014, 09:04:14 am
Nope no dropped margins,
Some dealers use 10W40(SUBSTANTIALLY CHEAPER @R80/lt) as apposed to the prescribed 5W40
Post by: TheBear on January 12, 2014, 07:59:58 am
Quote from: BennNevis on January 11, 2014, 09:04:14 am
Good to know, thanks. Will check. If this is the case in my wife's bike, it basically goes to a life long warranty on the engine.
Post by: lecap on January 13, 2014, 08:43:38 am
So what was the story then with BMW telling us to ONLY use Castrol Power 1 Racing 5W40 else your clutch may fail and your warranty will be null and void. Now the dealers nullify your warranty by using ActEvo ???
Post by: TheBear on January 13, 2014, 08:46:28 am
Quote from: lecap on January 13, 2014, 08:43:38 am
The oil they used for my wife's LC was Castrol Power 1 Racing. I am not sure which viscosity though.
Did BMW actually say that LeCap? Or was it a dealer or two? I am not tech expert, but I would be very surprised if the recommended 5W part of the viscosity was a world wide recommendation.
Post by: BikerJan on January 13, 2014, 09:02:02 am
Quote from: AMZ on January 13, 2014, 08:46:28 am
This is what is stated in the owners manual AMZ, it would indeed appears as if the 5 W 40 oil is recommended by BMW.
Post by: Lord Knormoer on January 13, 2014, 09:02:41 am
I think in this case BMW have been using and charging for the more expensive oil and when questioned the answer was as per Le Cap that the new engine and gearbox on the K50 cannot use any other oil.
Either way, I would be curious to know why the change from 5W to 10W is suddenly OK? A lot of us have been paying for R1000 oil changes that may not be required?
AMZ, I am still curious to find out what explanantion you get re your wife's bike.
Post by: TheBear on January 13, 2014, 10:08:16 am
Quote from: BikerJan on January 13, 2014, 09:02:02 am
Jip. Checked our owner's manual already. Also saw the 5W-40 recommended spec and I was surprised that the viscosity rating spec is not a sliding scale, coupled to average ambient temperatures, as I normally see in owner's manuals.
Quote from: Lord Knormoer on January 13, 2014, 09:02:41 am
This is why I often get into trouble here. One guy making a statement that some, unnamed dealers use 10W instead of 5W does not mean that BMW SA have decided that 10W is suddenly okay.
Anyway, according to our invoice, Castrol Power 1 was used. It doesn't state which viscosity. Will have a chat with them next time I go past there.
LeCap, help me out here (not BMW or LC related, just in general). I am not sure if my understanding is correct. The "w" figure in the viscosity rates the viscosity of the oil when cold. A 5W may therefore be great in SA, but useless on the Arrtic, or a 5W may be great for the Arctic, but in SA a 20W may well be fine? Is this incorrect thinking?
Post by: Lord Knormoer on January 13, 2014, 10:24:13 am
AMZ, as I suggested earlier, maybe the oil viscosity is unchanged and the price reduced :-)
Post by: TheBear on January 13, 2014, 10:52:19 am
Quote from: Lord Knormoer on January 13, 2014, 10:24:13 am
Jip. Possible. Will drop by the dealer sometime this week and report back. If it is good news, I will whisper so as not to get into trouble with the Anti-BMW Choir Master. :ricky:
Post by: Bundu on January 13, 2014, 01:02:03 pm
Quote from: AMZ on January 13, 2014, 10:08:16 am
10W should be fine for warmer climates
for the KTM 1190, it's 5W below 0degree and 10W above
Post by: TheBear on January 13, 2014, 07:14:28 pm
Quote from: Bundu on January 13, 2014, 01:02:03 pm
Ja. It is how I understand it as well.
Post by: BennNevis on January 13, 2014, 10:12:30 pm
This one guy making a statement is as
Owner's manual recommends 5W 40 Castrol Power 1 Racing
On my trip up to GP in December I stopped at SOVEREIGN BMW Bloemfontein who sells
Castrol Power 1 Racing 10W40 which they use in the K50 Gs's
So as I was on 5 W40 I declined.
Next stop was Bavarian Bmw Centurion who sells and used also the 10W40
Finally got Castrol Power1 Racing at R179/liter at Auto Alpina, Boksburg
Post by: lecap on January 14, 2014, 09:30:14 am
There was some info floating around where a BMW (factory) official stated that they can only approve the Castrol Power 1 racing 5W40 for use and this is the only oil which they guarantee not to cause any issues with the clutch. I think this was even linked early in this thread ???
The trend to lower viscosity engine oils is a general trend.
There is a number of good reasons to use lower viscosity oils:
A lower viscosity oil reduces cold start wear. Since it's thinner it will not be forced through the oil filter bypass for as long as a higher viscosity oil.
A lower viscosity oil causes less friction and thereby reduces fuel consumption. This might be marginal over a tank of fuel but it is noticeable over the lifetime of a vehicle or on the scope of fleet consumption.
Lower viscosity oil will make the plates in a wet clutch stick less and allow for quieter & smoother gear changes.
Low viscosity engine oils are readily available and good value for money - if purchased from the right supplier.
The claim that an engine will use more oil if you use a lower viscosity oil is a myth. Oil consumption is dependent on the amount of volatiles in the oil and on the design of the engine and in particular the crank case breather. If you can reduce oil consumption by using "thicker" oil you should rather get your engine reconditioned ::)
You can without any restrictions use an oil with a wider viscosity rating than what the manufacturer recommends (i.e. you can use 5W50, 10W50 or 5W40 if the manufacturer specifies 10W40) since a 10W50 oil will also fulfil the requirements for a 10W40. For obvious reasons you should not do the opposite.
At the end of the day the 5W oil IS lots better for your engine than the 10W. It does actually not make that much of a difference how cold your engine is when you turn the key and fire it up. The important point is it is COLD compared to the temperature where it performs best.
On the other end of the spectrum it makes very little difference if you use a 40 or 50 since the performance of both oils differs only marginally at the oil temperature in your engine. Please note there is a difference if you talk about your bike or your turbocharged diesel bakkie :D
Using different hot viscosity engine oils in summer and winter is utter rubbish since engine & oil temperature vary little with variations in ambient temperature.
Last but not least I think Castrol Power 1 Racing comes either as a 5W40 and 10W50. Castrol ActEvo 4T comes as 10W40.
And did I mention that I sell engine oil as per BMW spec for the K50 SAE 5W40 API SM & JASO MA2 compliant & fully synthetic for R 72 per litre? Not Castrol though but Ravenol.
Post by: TheBear on January 14, 2014, 09:48:22 am
Quote from: lecap on January 14, 2014, 09:30:14 am
Thanks. Excellent description which even someone who thinks he knows it all can understand. :ricky:
You last sentence is the interesting one. What is important, imho, is the blue text. The underlined text is unimportant (excluding obvious weak quality).
Just another question please. The improvement 5W versus 10W. Would that be very real, or would it be more a theoretical advantage over the life of an engine.
Post by: TheBear on January 14, 2014, 09:51:16 am
Quote from: BennNevis on January 13, 2014, 10:12:30 pm
It was not aimed at you as a person, but the fact remains, that you looked for oil and saw two dealers selling a specific oil. This does not mean that BMW SA approved that oil for use in a K50 and that was the direction the discussion was going. It shows how easily, something said on a forum, can become "fact" in a few days.
Post by: lecap on January 15, 2014, 10:13:58 am
Quote from: AMZ on January 14, 2014, 09:48:22 am
...Just another question please. The improvement 5W versus 10W. Would that be very real, or would it be more a theoretical advantage over the life of an engine.
This is debatable. You can claim that it does not really matter if your oil circulates unfiltered on cold start - or if it circulates unfiltered for longer when using a higher viscosity oil - since the manufacturer has fitted an oil filter with a bypass valve to allow for that.
On the other hand you can say the oil filter bypass is there because it has to be there in case someone pours some 20W50 goo into the engine and starts it at -10°C (Without the bypass you would have very little oil getting to where it's needed until the engine warms up).
I would not dare to claim that your engine will last longer if you use a 5W40 oil instead of a 10W40 and it would in any case be rather difficult to prove this.
What I can guarantee you on the other side is that using 5W40 instead of 10W40 will not shorten the service life of the engine.
What I can also guarantee is that the vast majority of wear in an engine occurs during cold start. Any means of reducing cold start wear will most likely give you an extended service life.
Add to this that I can buy Ravenol Motobike Ester 5W40 fully synthetic JASO MA compliant oil at pretty much the same price as I can buy semi synthetic Castrol ActEvo 4t 10W40 (also JASO MA) - and therefore sell it at the same price.
Both Castrol as well as Ravenol look back onto many decades of experience in the industry and both run their own labs and blend their products themselves.
A no brainer IMHO
Post by: Lord Knormoer on January 15, 2014, 10:28:11 am
Quote from: lecap on January 15, 2014, 10:13:58 am
Interesting and informative, thx. The only reason I do not consider the change at present is warranty. As long as BMW is responsible to replace what stops working I will stay with the recommended. Up to now they have not shied away from that responsibility yet.
Still do not like the price though!
Post by: Askook on January 23, 2014, 05:07:59 pm
Ek het nog altyd n 15w-40 n die sommer gebruik en in die winter n 10w-40, want ek het gedink dis beter vir die fiets.
So ek kon n 5w- 40 in gegooi het en heel jaar ry.
So leer n mens.
Post by: Camel on March 10, 2014, 03:31:04 pm
from lecap: And did I mention that I sell engine oil as per BMW spec for the K50 SAE 5W40 API SM & JASO MA2 compliant & fully synthetic for R 72 per litre? Not Castrol though but Ravenol.
Very nice explanation lecap, will these oil affect the warranty ie using Ravenol instead of Castrol?