Wapens in Suid Afrika - Page 22 - Stormfront
06-19-2005, 12:14 PM #211
I hear crossbows can be even more effective than firearms and don't require a license..
That's true, but as soon as the goverment start to reallise, crossbows will also be regulated.
True, but until then.. Paintball guns no longer require a license either and of course the they don't necessarily have to contain paint. I'm sure people here could be quite creative.
06-20-2005, 06:32 AM #212
SUBJECT: MINISTER CONTRAVENES CONSTITUTION & GUN LAW REGARDING COMPENSATION OF GUN OWNERS
CAPACITY : FF Plus Spokesperson: Safety & Security
The Minister of Safety and Security, Mr. Charles Nqakula, says he will not compensate legal gun owners for the loss of weapons when licenses are reissued. According to the new gun law, individuals are only allowed to have a restricted number of guns. This implies that current gun owners will not be allowed to have certain guns and will either have to sell them or hand them to the police for destruction. The Minister replied to a question of Mr. Pieter Groenewald (MP) of the Freedom Front Plus in Parliament.
"With this reply the Minister forces the FF Plus to initiate the process of a court case against the Minister. The Minister contravenes sec. 137 of the new Act on the Control of Weapons (Act 60 of 2000). This section in the law specifically provides for the compensation of persons who hand in or forfeit their weapons to the State. Sec. 137 (5) of the same Act furthermore places an obligation on the Minister of Safety and Security to introduce, in conjunction with the Minister of Finance, guidelines for the payment of compensation. The Minister, Charles Nqakula, is busy neglecting his duties and is quite clearly not aware of sec. 137 of the Gun Law," Mr. Pieter Groenewald (MP), chief spokesperson for Safety and Security of the Freedom Front Plus said.
"In his reply the Minister furthermore places the onus on legal gun owners to sell the guns themselves, have the guns de-activated or willingly hand the guns to the SAPS for destruction. The government in this way deprives legal gun owners of their property rights without compensation. In our view this is a further contravention of sec. 25 of the Constitution which guarantees property rights. Section 25 (1) of the Constitution stipulates amongst others that nobody may be deprived of his/her property and no legal regulation may arbitrarily allow the dispossession of property," Groenewald said.
The FF Plus calls on all gun owners, when handing in their guns, to insist upon the completion of the prescribed form which is to be submitted to the Registrar, thereby applying for compensation in terms of sec. 137 of the Act.
Enquiries: 083 627 4397 / 082 551 4517
FOR WRITTEN REPLY - QUESTION NO 727
DATE OF PUBLICATION IN INTERNAL QUESTION PAPER: 27 MAY 2005
(INTERNAL QUESTION PAPER NO 16/2005)
Date reply submitted: 08 June 2005
Mr P J Groenewald (FF Plus) to ask the Minister of Safety and Security:?
(1) Whether gun owners who, in accordance with the new Firearms Control Act, Act 60 of 2000, will not be able to own certain guns and will have to hand in those guns, will be compensated for such guns; if not, why not; if so, what will the compensation amount to;
(1) No, all existing firearm licence holders who have been issued with firearm licences in terms of the Arms and Ammunition Act, 1969 (Act No. 75 of 1969) and who wish to renew their existing firearm licences, permits or authorisations must apply for the renewal of their corresponding licence, permit or authorisation within the period as prescribed. Such person may only renew the required number of firearms in terms of the Firearms Control Act, 2000 (Act No. 60 of 2000). The firearms for which the licences cannot be renewed may be disposed of in the following manner:
ÿ selling the firearm to another person who may lawfully possess the firearm.
ÿ the firearm may be deactivated.
ÿ the firearm may be sold to a licenced firearm dealer or handed to such licenced dealer to be sold on her/his behalf.
ÿ voluntary handing in of the firearm to the South African Police Service for destruction.
The existing firearm licence holders have various options at their disposal to dispose of their firearms and therefore no compensation will be payable.
06-24-2005, 07:07 AM #213
MOENIE VUURWAPENS ONBRUIKBAAR MAAK NIE
My brief aan Die Burger.
"As Koena Loubser graag 5 jaar in die Nuwe Suid-Afrika se tronke wil
deurgbring, is hy/sy welkom. Ek verwys nou na sy/haar brief in Die Burger
van 24 Junie waarin die volgende staan: "..... dit onbruikbaar maak deur
dit byvoorbeeld te breek. Jy mag dit doen." Artikel 150(2) van die
gewraakte Vuurwapenbeheerwet lees: "A firearm may only be deactivated by
a gunsmith in the prescribed manner." 5 Jaar hardepad is jou voorland as
jy dit sou durf waag om jou vuurwapen (jou eiendom) te beskadig.
Jammer Koena, 'n wapenvrye land waarborg ook nie 'n misdaadvrye land nie.
Solank as wat daar moordenaars, verkragters, skakers en dies meer is, sal
die vuurwapen steeds die beste weermiddel wees. Watter kans het 'n vrou
teen twee of meer mans met kwade bedoelings? Nul. Maar met 'n vuurwapen
is die kans oorweldigend beter om nie net nog een van Suid-Afrika se
Vigsbesmette statistieke te word nie.
Ons moet wegkom van die idee dat dit die vuurwapen is wat vir moorde ens
verantwoordelik is. Die mens is die skuldige. Jy kan tog nie die
eselskakebeen blameer dat Simson hom gebruik het om 'n klomp Filistyne
bokveld toe te stuur nie. Net so min kan jy die lepel blameer waarmee
Lenie die baie pap eet wat haar so vet gemaak het."
Tel : (021) 947 2433
Fax : (021) 957 3376
06-24-2005, 07:08 AM #214
ONTWAPENING DUUR VOORT
"Ek verwys na oudbrig Papenfus se skrywe in Die Burger van 23 Junie.
In die eerste paragraaf noem hy dat Wapenvrye Suid-Afrika (GFSA) vyf jaar
gelede betoog het dat vuurwapens te vryelik in SA beskikbaar is. Hierdie
liggaampie wat hom so ywerig daarop toespits om die publiek van SA
ontwapen te kry, bestaan klaarblyklik uit ongeveer vyf mense wat deur
oorsese fondse aan die lewe gehou word. Tot op datum is bloedweinig
inligting van hulle beskikbaar. Die plaaslike kantoor van WVSA weet
byvoorbeeld nie eers wat hul Kaapse of landswye ledetal is nie.
Wat hulle wel weet, is dat hulle hoofsaaklik van buitelandse fondse
afhanklik is om voort te bestaan. Daar is blykbaar ook 'n paar
SA-donateurs waarvan Lotto-skenkings deel uitmaak. Ek hoop dat alle
vuurwapeneienaars summier die Lotto sal boikot. Julle betaal vir julle
eie ontwapening!! Hierdie mense is huursoldate wat vir 'n bord lensiesop
bejaardes, slagoffers van kapings en verkragtings van hul enigste manier
van verdediging sal beroof.
Wat brig Papenfus ook in sy brief meld, is dat húlle wat vanjaar aansoek
om hernuwing moet doen, dit so gou moontlik doen, want die
hernuwingsproses is 'n tydrowende besigheid. Ek verstout my om te sê dat
dit al klaar te laat is om vanjaar nog jou hernuwing deur te kry. Ons is
al halfpad deur die jaar en hoeveel hernuwings is al afgehandel? Bykans
niks. Daar is geen manier waarop die 1 miljoen hernuwings, of wat die
getal ook al mag wees, vanjaar afgehandel sal kan word nie. Lees maar
weer sy brief: "lywige administratiewe proses", "personeel ... hopeloos
te min", "lang toue", "min inligting", "kontroleer nie", "skep ....
geleentheid vir .... misdadiger" en so kan 'n mens maar aangaan. Ek self
weet van geen persoon wie se hernuwing al geslaagd deur is nie.
Nee, brig Papenfus, die Vuurwapenbeheerwet is nie gemik op 'n wapenvrye
Suid-Afrika nie. Daarvoor word daar in elk geval te veel AK 47's, R4'e en
R5'e aan die misdadigers beskikbaar gestel deur persone of instansies op
wie die wet nie van toepassing is nie. Die Vuurwapenbeheerwet se
uitsluitlike doel is die ontwapening van die publiek. Geen persoon sal my
tot ander insigte bring nie."
06-24-2005, 08:16 AM #215
Hoor Hoor... net jamer hulle sal nie luister nie, en tien teen een ook nie hierdie brief pos nie. Sal my werklik verbaas as hulle doen...
Want die koerante deesdae, hoe "afrikaans" ookal, bly pionne van die regering... en hulle pos niks wat die regering ongelukkig kan maak nie.
06-24-2005, 09:02 AM #216
QUESTIONS / CONCERNS DEALERS WANT ANSWERED
1. We would like to know all the names of persons on the appeal board, and their qualifications. Who responds to questions on their behalf?
2. Why is it that a person who makes an appeal cannot be at the hearing?
3. How are they going to work through all the appeals in a fair and just manner?
4. The easiest way of getting through all these appeals is quite obvious to us, and that is to again refuse the licence.
5. What exactly does Dir. Bothma have to do with the licence application and the appeal board, and why is it that no one can give an approval or make a decision without first consulting with Dir. Bothma?
6. What constitutes an acceptable motivation if self-defense is no longer a motivation?
7. Why then is self-defense incorporated into the New Act?
8. We (a Dealer) have the public going to various Police Stations, and asking them to assist them to demand from the Dealer a refund on their refusal. The SAP is actually bringing them to us, and they are telling the customer that if we do not refund their money, they will drop them at the small claims court to open a case against us.
9. Why are the Department of Economic Affairs, Environment and Tourism now sending faxes to a Dealer, demanding that they refund a customer of theirs, their money, under the Lay-bye regulations?
10. What have all the employees been doing at CFR for the past year, as I have not seen any new licences?
11. Why the Hunters arriving at Jan Smuts airport must be treated in such a way that they don’t want to come back?
12. Why do we wait so long for export permits after they have been approved by NCACC?
13. Would appreciate faster response to questions from CFR.
14. We sometimes feel we are working only for the Police – so much paperwork that brings in no money. The paperwork takes a lot of time.
15. Prior to new act 30-40 firearms licenced per month. Since 1-7-04 1 or 2 per month. No response from CFR.
16. R45,500-00 export applied for 6-4-05. Still waiting.
17. Refunds issued between July 2004 to May 2005 = R106,843-66. Can no longer issue refunds – customers must bring in a buyer for the firearm.
18. When is the whole act going to come together?
19. Export applied for 22-7-04 – no response yet.
20. Why does it take so long for the processing of forms?
21. Does anything ever happen at CFR?
22. Until the end of 2003 thousands of firearms were booked out every year. For the past 12 months, only 10% have been booked out. Therefore, firearm sales are less than 10%of the worst 12-month period ever experienced before.
23. How long are appeals supposed to take?
24. It took one year for an appeal to be approved.
25. The DFO at the ____________SAP is corrupt – clients are afraid to testify.
26. Have 60+ pistols and 20+ rifles and shotguns that we refunded. What are we going to do with them, as nobody wants them?
27. Local station sees no firearm applications coming in, and keep the DFO busy with crime prevention, and he is never in his office.
28. Why did a refusal state “9,3x62 is too big a caliber for a first weapon?
29. Documents are being lost between “post office” at CFR and the said offices when being delivered via overnight courier.
30. Firearms handed to customers in 1997 are still registered at CFR on Dealers name.
31. Why is CFR not bound to a timeframe in which decisions have to be made? Eg. Applications will be done within 4 weeks – either a YES, or NO.
32. Only 2 out of 7 at local SAP know what they are doing. They did not know how to handle our Dealers’ licence application.
33. This whole new act is a total disaster, and should be re-examined.
34. Export permit applications: Losing documents / slow / total lack of motivation of staff.
35. Local DFO rely on our advice!
36. You can never reach anyone by phone at CFR
37. They never return your calls
38. They treat you like a criminal
39. They regularly lie to you
40. They pass the buck
41. No-one knows anything
42. This is a difficult situation, and loss of income is incredible.
43. 90% of all refusals have done a proper ITA training course – why refuse the licence?
44. DFO on leave for a month, and thereafter on a training course – cannot re-apply for Dealers licence – made an appointment for next week.
45. Took DFO a month to tell Dealer he had completed incorrect forms for re-licencing.
46. There seems to be a misunderstanding between DFO’s and Poslec Seta – they are often not in agreement.
47. Losing very good customers due to CFR inefficiency.
48. 90% of refusals (insufficient motivation not convinced of need) even for hunting rifle where client has no other firearms.
49. When will the system be running?
50. There are delays in certificates from poslec seta and the SAPS are not delivering any service as far as competence certificates go.
51. All dealers are being unfairly treated due to Poslec seta / SAPS certificates of competency – why?
52. What can we do with unsold firearms in stock?
53. When is CFR being decentralized?
54. Firearm sales only 3% of sales at this stage.
55. Local DFO is not forwarding applications.
56. Surely it is stupid to ask the MD or Chairman of an overseas manufacturer to supply his / her personal info when we apply for an import permit for guns made by that factory? It serves no purpose, and makes us look stupid in their eyes. We don’t buy from the person, but from the factory!
57. DFO’s get frustrated when they don’t get answers to queries from CFR.
58. In one instance, when told that my documents had not been received by CFR, the person I was talking to was the signatory on the Speed Services Proof of Delivery!!!!!
59. DFO handing forms to renew licence and application for competency to client and told to go to his nearest gunshop for them to help him fill them in. DFO did not even explain to client that he had to do the new RPL.
60. Allow us to get on with business, and ensure that all staff members are well trained and have a department head that can answer queries and make decisions. Don’t pass the buck.
61. DFO tells people that the dealer should refund them, so that they don’t have to hassle with appeals.
62. Why did they allow 7,62 x 25mm to come into the country, if they don’t want to give licences for it?
63. One dealer says their local DFO says they are going to close their shop, because they want a gun-free South Africa. Some of the other staff members, names that we don’t want to mention due to victimization, tells clients that they must not buy firearms because they will not get a licence, it is too dangerous and it kills people.
64. CFR gives DFO wrong information.
65. How will new personnel be put on dealers’ and gunsmith licences?
66. Why suddenly, does nobody qualify for a licence?
67. DFO’s not sending applications to CFR
06-24-2005, 09:10 AM #217
68 Dealers replied to the questionnaire.
272 People are employed in these shops.
117 Staff members have lost their jobs with Dealers, who are still operating. (This figure excludes staff and owners who are now unemployed from Dealers which have closed, or are going to close).
60 Dealers are in the process of re-applying for their licences, or have already applied.
8 Dealers are not re-applying, for the following reasons :
1. Battling to obtain building plans
2. Don’t know how
4. Lease expiring
5. Require funds to upgrade premises
6. No trade and no money for alterations
7. Not sure of future
There are 25,873 firearms at the 68 Dealers waiting for licences.
The total amount to be refunded by the 68 Dealers if all applications are refused is R 55,767,914-00
The above figure, if divided between the 68 Dealers = R820,116-00 per dealer. There must be about 180 dealers still operational. If all Dealers responded to the questionnaire, the total figure would be around one hundred and fifty million rand.
1,688 firearms have been sold (in retail outlets) since inception of the New Act.
6 firearms have been licenced under the new act. This represents .004% of firearms sold.
21 refusals have been received for firearms sold under the new act. Therefore, there are 1,661 applications under the New Act, which are still under consideration.
Approximately 5,494 appeals have been applied for.
37 appeals have been approved. This figure represents .007% of appeals applied for.
91% of Dealers say that their DFO is helpful.
50% of Dealers say that their DFO is familiar with the New Act.
93% of Dealers are under the impression that the SAP 350(a) and (b)’s are not being processed at CFR.
25% of Dealers feel that paperwork is being lost by their DFO.
94% of Dealers think that paperwork is being lost at CFR.
Where applicable, 81% of Dealers have had paperwork gone missing at CFR after posting via registered mail or sending with a courier.
Where applicable, 100% of Dealers are experiencing problems with Exports / Imports.
Wholesalers who participated say they have sold 1690 firearms since the implementation of the New Act, as apposed to a total of 19,045 in the previous year. Sales are down to .09% of previous sales. Many of the 1,690 sales were for export purposes.
It appears that licences for Security Companies (applied for under the Old Act) are being approved, but very few for private individuals.
06-24-2005, 09:13 AM #218
· Client applied for a 9mmP Norinco and his refusal states “ reasons for refusal to be declared a bona fide hunter”.?
· Application date 29 May 2002. Refusal date 3 September 2004. Refusal received at dealer 1 November 2004. (2 years 5 months since applying)
· Refusal states “Did not convince appeal board by the motivation given. He is also a full time School Teacher and does not belong to any hunting club.”
· Dealer went to small claims court – client had appealed, appeal still pending, and the commissioner told dealer to pay the client because there is no way he will get a licence.
· Refusal states, “failed to disclose previous conviction of inconsiderate driving.”
· Applications for replacement barrels on existing licenced firearms refused, even if the calibre is the same.
· Many, many refusals on appeals read “…………..decided not to uphold the appeal on account of the fact that you did not give any substantial reason why you should not protect yourself by means other than a firearm”
· One dealer in particular receives many refusals which state………..” not recommended by local profile due to lack of merit” – says his local DFO does not want licences issued.
· Client applied for a licence for a .303 Rifle to protect his livestock against Jackals etc..– Refusal states “decided not to uphold the appeal on account of the fact that you did not give any substantial reason why you should not protect yourself by means other than a firearm.
· One refusal states : Lack of supporting documentation to substantiate need / insufficient motivation / not convinced of need / false information given by applicant / no co-operation of applicant. Client said he changed his job and got a new cell phone – the police then could not reach him – that is why they said “false information and lack of co-operation.”
· Insufficient motivation / not convinced of need / not recommended by local profile due to lack of merit security legislation (act 56/2001) – dealer says the weapon is for clients’ personal use after hours.
· Refused : safe did not conform – but inspection never done anyway!!
06-26-2005, 03:24 AM #219
Jagbedryf 'geknou weens Wapenwet'
Die Suid-Afrikaanse jagbedryf, wat jaarliks meer as R1 miljard inbring, word ook erg deur die nuwe Wet op die Beheer van Vuurwapens en die wapenamnestie geknou, meen verskeie organisasies in dié bedryf.
Mnr. Coert Steynberg, ondervoorsitter van die Wildboerevereniging van Suid-Afrika, sê oorsese jagters sien net nie meer kans vir al die vorms, permitte en administratiewe rompslomp wat met die nuwe wet gepaardgaan nie.
Ook plaaslike jagters is onkundig oor die heruitreiking van lisensies wat teen 2008 afgehandel moet wees. Hiervoor pak hy die skuld op die polisie, wat op polisiekantoorvlak nog nie genoeg opleiding ontvang het nie.
"Daar is reeds baie administratiewe probleme met die heruitreiking van lisensies, maar ek vermoed ons sien nog net die oortjies van die seekoei," meen hy.
"Om te jag, het jy 'n wettige wapen en dus 'n lisensie nodig." Hy meen die jagbedryf gaan beslis skade ly weens verliese aan buitelandse inkomste en ook "omdat ons waarskynlik plaaslike geleentheidsjagters gaan verloor".
Mnr. Kassie Kasselman, president van die Suid-Afrikaanse Jagters-en-wildbewaringsvereniging (SAJWV), het by navraag gesê sy organisasie is ten gunste van die wet as sodanig en dat gesonde beheer oor vuurwapens noodsaaklik is. "Maar die wet moet oordeelkundig toegepas word en nie op 'n onredelike manier soos wat tans die geval is nie."
Hy bevestig dat buitelanders wat jare lank in Suid-Afrika gejag het deesdae groener weivelde in onder meer Namibië en Zambië gaan soek weens die nuwe beperkende maatreëls in Suid-Afrika.
Die SAJWV het 'n klagskrif aan die minister van omgewingsake, mnr. Marthinus van Schalkwyk, gerig om in te gryp. "Ons hoop om binnekort met die minister oor die situasie te onderhandel," sê Kasselman.
Mnr. André van Dyk van die SAJWV sê jag is 'n enorme bedryf wat meer as R400 miljoen net aan buitelandse geld inbring.
"Finansiële verliese kan verreikende gevolge hê en die werk van meer as 100 000 mense op wildplase word bedreig.
"Dit is ook belangrik dat ons jong jagters, spoorsnyers en sportskuts goed opgelei word, wat met die nuwe wet baie moeilik is." Ingevolge dié wet mag mense onder 21 nie 'n vuurwapen of 'n lisensie besit nie.
07-08-2005, 04:52 AM #220
Amnesty used only. by the law-abiding
HOW does Safety and Security Minister Charles Nqakula con*clude that many
lives have been saved when all the weapons collec*ted were handed in by
responsible citizens (The Citizen, July 1?
Just who is going to protect these unarmed citizens now?
That law-abiding citizens relin*quished 80 000 legal guns is testa*ment to
the chicanery of the am*nesties.
-Not one amnesty firearm has been linked to crime, and crimin*als now have
even less to fear.They have also retained their arsenals.
About 650 000 firearms re*gistered under the old Act have to be
re-licensed - annually.- starting in January this year.
It appears the only way to cope is to refuse applications en masse.
Licensing pre-qualification is a farce, as all may be in
How many more amnesties are we to be subjected to before the government is
satisfied that all victims have been disarmed?
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