Good old days

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{{cquote|Our parents rave about the good old times / It's so far away / The old ''[[German Empire|Kaiserzeit]]''.|||We want to have our old Kaiser Wilhelm back! (song)<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWIH9ix8zgM Wir wollen unseren alten Kaiser Wilhelm wiederhaben] (Aug 12, 2018) ''YouTube''.</ref>}}

{{cquote|Do you remember the good ol' days? You could get fish n' chips and polio in the good ol' days.|||Frankie Boyle<ref>[https://web.archive.org/web/20180116202546/http://scrapsfromtheloft.com/2017/10/15/frankie-boyle-hurt-like-you-ve-never-been-loved-transcript Frankie Boyle: Hurt like you've never been loved.] scrapsfromtheloft.com, 15 October 2017.</ref>}}

"'''Good old days'''"  or G.O.D.<ref>[https://www.songfacts.com/facts/fastball/god-good-old-days G.O.D. (Good Old Days) by Fastball]</ref> is a term often used in when engaging in [[nostalgia]], remembering only the positive aspects of times past while [[Negationism|sweeping concomitant negatives]] under the rug. Such maundering can exemplify the "[[golden age]] [[fallacy]]".<ref>''Midnight in Paris.'' Woody Allen.</ref>

It is important to note a distinction between this fallacy and legitimate comparisons: not every positive appraisal of the past is wrongheaded, because the world really has changed. It's just that change has also always been complex and uneven, and no period or people have ever had a monopoly on virtue.

==Origin==
Much as one remembers one's own childhood with affection (endless summer days and playing in the winter snow), some people regard their parents' time as idyllic. There are a variety of factors to explain this, mostly relying on the phenomenon of [[selective memory]] and the {{wpl|Affective heuristic|affective}} [[heuristic]]: a father recounting the halcyon days of his youth not only remembers the different circumstances of that time, but also recalls that his hips didn't ache and all possibilities lay before him. Because it is unpleasant to remember the unpleasant, the warm glow of remembered youth tints the past. (As George Orwell's novel ''{{wpl|Coming Up for Air}}'' put it: "Before the [First World] war, and especially before the Boer War, it was summer all the year round".<ref>http://www.george-orwell.org/Coming_up_for_Air/4.html</ref>)

Individuals of all political stripes fall prey to the Golden Age Fallacy. [[Hard green]] environmentalists and [[Anarchist#Anarcho-primitivism|anarcho-primitivists]] focus on the evils of civilization and the glories of subsistence-level economies, while [[conservative]]s &mdash; almost by definition &mdash; seek to return to the values of the past, which requires glorifying the past.

==Examples==
<!--Do not just add to this list, unless the example is particularly illustrative or prominent. If you do add something, stick to chronological order or you will be shot. It is not necessary to write an essay about why each period was terrible. If you add a long half-funny paragraph about why you think the 80s sucked, you will be shot.-->

===Bygone eras===
Some of the most popular locations for the good old days reside in distant [[history]]. The myth of the "[[noble savage]]" became particularly popular for many years, arguing that people in undeveloped [[nation]]s (both in the past and present) actually lived happier lives than those in modern developed nations. As is common, this belief thrives in ignorance: once words like "infant mortality", "citrus fruit", and "toilet paper" enter the conversation, attitudes swiftly change. ''Prehistoric times'', even, are touted as an era when primitive humans were better off; witness the so-called [[Paleo diet]].

Ancient [[Greece]], particularly Athens, is another long-lost paradise. After all, it is widely-known that it was the era of [[democracy]] and [[Socrates]]. Unfortunately, only wealthy native male property owners could vote, most Athenians were [[slaves]], and Socrates was convicted of impiety and "corruption of the youth", and sentenced to death. Also, the Athenian democracy only lasted for two centuries.

While no longer in vogue, it has also been popular to call various parts of the [[medieval]] period in [[Europe]] the good old days. Rodney Starke's texts, such as ''The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success''<ref>[http://www.amazon.com/Victory-Reason-Christianity-Freedom-Capitalism/dp/0812972333%3FSubscriptionId%3D02ZH6J1W0649DTNS6002%26tag%3Devolvthoug-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D0812972333 Crappy Book 101]</ref> and Thomas Woods' ''How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization''<ref>[http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization/dp/0895260387/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312335178&sr=1-1 And another one]</ref>. Joining this [[Christ]]-centric view is a yearning for the Age of [[Chivalry]], as a time of high honor and bravery. [[Mark Twain]] famously blamed Sir Walter Scott's paeans to knighthood in such works as ''Ivanhoe'' for the [[American Civil War]]:<ref>Twain, Mark. ''Life on the Mississippi.</ref>

{{quotebox|Then comes Sir Walter Scott with his enchantments, and by his single might checks this wave of progress, and even turns it back; sets the world in love with dreams and phantoms; with decayed and swinish forms of religion; with decayed and degraded systems of government; with the sillinesses and emptinesses, sham grandeurs, sham gauds, and sham chivalries of a brainless and worthless long-vanished society. He did measureless harm; more real and lasting harm, perhaps, than any other individual that ever wrote. Most of the world has now outlived good parts of these harms, though by no means all of them; but in [[Fun:Jesusland|our South]] they flourish pretty forcefully still.}}

Scott's idyllic "Merry England" was, however, even more specific as he subscribed to the "Anglo-Saxon paradise" version of [[English]] history. In this perspective, all ills are traced to the Norman conquest in 1066 and William the Conqueror, before which, apparently, all good English men were apparently free, if not exactly equal (though even this is somewhat fudged). According to this [[Nostalgia|rosy-colored]] version of Anglo-Saxon England, all proper freemen had their say in the {{wpl|Thing (assembly)|thing|,}} which in this narrative is some kind of proto-Westminster parliament(s).<ref group=note>This strain persists even into the present, as seen in the 2012 historical documentary series {{wpl|The Great British Story: A People's History (TV series)|''The Great British Story: A People's History''|,}} whose episode on the topic bears the telling title ''The Norman Yoke'' and claims that Anglo-Saxon England had a [[Nationalism|national identity]].</ref>

A third variety is the more muddled wish for a simple rural Arcadia of uncertain provenance, as when folk singer Pete Seeger declared that "I want to turn the clock back to when people lived in small villages and took care of each other."<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/1995/01/22/magazine/sunday-january-22-1995-the-old-left.html?n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/S/Seeger,%20Pete The Old Left], ''New York Times Magazine''.</ref>

1918's ''The Decline of the West'' by [[Oswald Spengler]], one of the most famous works in the "[[Declinism|declinist]]" genre poetically, albeit dramatically, called 17<sup>th</sup> and 18<sup>th</sup> century Europe (i.e. {{wpl|Absolutism (European history)|Age of Absolutism}}) a golden age &mdash; "summer" in his morphologically seasonal model of civilization.<ref>{{wpa|The Decline of the West}}</ref> Another notable work is {{wpl|Arnold J. Toynbee}}'s ''A Study of History'' (released in a 12-volumes between 1934-1961), which was for a moment considered one of the greatest history books of the 20th century, before around year 1960, when historians started to realize that Toynbee's methodology was flawed; in that he preferred [[myth]]s, allegories, and [[religion]] (namely in using [[Goddidit]] to gloss over whatever he could not answer) over factual data.<ref>{{Cite web|url=https://www.britannica.com/biography/Arnold-Joseph-Toynbee|title=Arnold Toynbee (British historian)|date=April 10, 2019|website=Encyclopedia Britannica}}</ref><ref>{{cite book |editor1-last=McIntire |editor1-first=C. T. |editor2-last=Perry |editor2-first=Marvin |title=Toynbee: Reappraisals |publisher=University of Toronto Press |year=1989 |isbn=978-0802057853}}</ref><ref>{{cite book |last1=Perry |first1=Marvin |title=Arnold Toynbee and the Western Tradition |series=American University Studies—5—Philosophy |volume=169 |location=New York |publisher=Peter Lang |year=1996 |isbn=978-0820426716}}</ref>

===America===
[[File:Happy Days Arnold's Wedding 1976.jpg|thumb|right|165px|A wedding in ''Happy Days'': perhaps not the way it really was]]
{{main|United States}}
{{cquote|If you really go back to study U.S. history, you would find two things: The past was worse, and conflict has always been the norm.|||Jennifer Rubin<ref>[https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/12/31/history-conflict-unity-nostalgia Get real and read some history. The past was worse.] by Jennifer Rubin (December 31, 2023 at 7:45 a.m. EST) ''The Washington Post''.</ref>}}
Many periods of American history have been host to this fallacy. The [[American Revolution|revolutionary]] era of the 18<sup>th</sup> century, a time of gentleman farmers and tricorner hats, has long been venerated as the good old days. For a time, the succeeding century was also host to wistful yearning, despite its apt nickname, the "[[Gilded Age]]."

[[R.J. Rushdoony]], [[Gary North]], [[Larry Pratt]], [[David Barton]], and other [[Dominionist]]s promote the New England [[Puritan]] [[theocracy]] of the 17<sup>th</sup> and early-18<sup>th</sup> centuries as one such period.

The [[gang]] warfare of urban areas in the 1980s and 1990s was unparalleled… unless you knew something about history. [[New York City]] gangs existed in the 19<sup>th</sup> century with the influx of [[Irish]] immigrants, and from the turn of the century with the [[Chinese]] {{wpl|On Leong Tong}} or the {{wpl|Hip Sing Association}} under the leadership of {{wpl|Sai Wing Mock||,}} and from the 1930s onwards with the [[Mafia]]. But, obviously, they weren't [[African American|black people]], so that is ''completely'' different. [[Hypocrisy|Obviously]].

Of late, it has become peculiarly easy to divine an American's political persuasion based on whether they idolize the [[American Dream|1950s]] or [[Hippie|1960s]]. Do you fondly recall {{wpl|Woodstock}} and [[Kent State]], or {{wpl|Happy Days|''Happy Days''}} and [[misogyny]]? In the good old days, they tended to [[Lynch mob|hang]] black people up from trees, [[Women's suffrage|not let women vote]], and criminalize gay people. They may have been good times if you were a [[WASP|straight white dude]], though.

Also, while economically the US peaked from the end of World War II to the early '70s, this was because everywhere but the US had their infrastructure bombed to smithereens, not because of conservative culture ruined by teh leebrals. And the economy hasn’t been destroyed since then, just shifted to the service sector (which is why free higher education has suddenly become such a politicized issue, as agriculture and manufacturing doesn’t require much education, while service work does). Despite this, many say they could somehow reverse the economy back to the “golden age”, even though this has just left us completely unprepared for the new service economy.

===Victorian Britain===
[[File:Coaltub.png|thumb|right|165px|Girl hauling a coal tub, mid-19<sup>th</sup> century Britain<ref>[http://www.victorianweb.org/history/ashley.html Testimony Gathered by Ashley's Mines Commission] (1842) ''The Victorian Web''.</ref>]]
The economy was booming, the workers didn't whine about 16-hour, 6-day work weeks (and neither {{wpl|Child labor|did their children||}}), and the darkies, [[Jews]], and common folk (like poor people, how dare they not be born into nobility!) knew their place. Also, the "[[British Empire|Empire]]"<ref group=note>Most of the rest of the world.</ref> provided a handy source of raw materials from which to create even more wealth. Good times, indeed.

===East Germany===
[[File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-B0503-0015-001, Sachsenring Trabant 601.jpg|thumb|right|165px|The East German Trabant: uncomfortable, slow, noisy, and dirty]]
{{main|East Germany}}
There is a phenomenon called ''Ostalgie'' (a portmanteau of the German words for "east" and "nostalgia") current in [[Germany]]. Due partially to the manner in which the reunification of Germany was executed, which resulted in economic depression and large-scale unemployment in the former East Germany, adherents to ''Ostalgie'' remember the period of [[communism]] there fondly, thus demonstrating why it is necessary for the German government to maintain a {{wpl|Federal Commissioner for the Stasi Archives}} keeping the memory of the East German [[police state]] alive to counterbalance this.

In many ways, ''Ostalgie'' is the result of shameless marketing. Many products available in East Germany that are meant to commemorate the German Democratic Republic were old brands that died during reunification and that were resurrected by West Germans to make it easier to brand and market their products to the region. Some companies even attempted to commercialize the heraldry of the German Democratic Republic.<ref>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staatswappen_der_Deutschen_Demokratischen_Republik#Versuch_der_markenrechtlichen_Kommerzialisierung</ref> [[Ironically]], part of their success lies in the fact that West Germans improved the quality of these products. Back in the days of the GDR, many of these brands were notable for being of inferior quality to their Western equivalents and were often avoided for that reason.

Anthropologist Dominic Boyer argued that ''Ostalgie'' itself has less to do with defending the former East German regime, and more to do with the existing East-West cultural divide. Many former East Germans felt that after the reunification, the views of their West German compatriots dominate society at the expense of the East, which had their own distinct culture and outlook that they felt is being slowly erased.<ref>Dominic Boyer, Ostalgie and the Politics of the Future in Eastern Germany, (pp. 361-381) Duke University Press, NC&IL, 2006.</ref>

===Indonesia===
{{main|Indonesia}}
Just like the Philippines, there are some attempts by supporters (or sympathizers) of deposed dictator [[Suharto]] to re-polish his tainted reputation. Examples are food self-sufficiency and low-crime rate. And as the case with the Philippines, many New Order sympathizers don't realize that Suharto had its own {{wpl|Petrus killings|mysterious killing program}} just for saying bad stuff about him, his regime, Golkar, and the Armed Force, not to mention committing one of the {{wpl|Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66|worst mass murders in history|,}} instituted ethnic repression of Chinese Indonesians, East Timorese, and West Papuans, and siphoning of $15 billion+ for his own family.

===Malaysia===
{{main|Malaysia}}
Some in Malaysia support the monarchy and claim that the period when Tunku Abdul Rahman (the first prime minister of Malaysia) as the golden age of the country as it gained independence from the British and became its own sovereign nation. During this time, Malaysia saw great economic growth and cultural influence.<ref>https://www.jstor.org/stable/23750133</ref> However, many saw the time as a period of racial and ethnic purity for Malaysians,<ref>https://www.jstor.org/stable/41056879</ref> and many sweep the massacres from the government during this time under the rug and pretend they never happened.

===China===
{{main|China}}

===Japan===
{{main|Japan}}
Some in Japan yearn for the good old days of the {{wpl|Edo period||,}} when noble samurai served their lords, the peasants knew their place, and a warrior culture was the norm. However, people who seriously argue for bringing back the Tokugawa shogunate are typically laughed out of the room in modern day Japan. More worrying are the Japanese nationalists who want the Japanese Empire back, ignoring its political repression and secret police, but at least they can invade neighboring countries and commit [[war crimes]] without that pesky constitution forbidding them. Such nationalists also overlap with denialists of Japanese [[Rape of Nanjing|war]] [[Comfort women|crimes]].

===Philippines===
{{main|Philippines}}
Since the early 2000s, there has been a concerted attempt by supporters of deposed dictator Ferdinand Marcos to wipe the shit off his name and polish it to brand-new. Examples cited of the good old days under Marcos are the low peso-to-dollar exchange rate, the fact that the Philippines had Asia's second-largest economy next to [[Japan]] based on [[gross domestic product]], and low crime rates. Needless to say, most people who post about the good old days of [[martial law]] were either born in the 1980s or later, and thus didn't experience the good old days when the police could knock on one's door just for saying bad stuff about Imelda Marcos, the Little People's Star and Slave, who is also well known for {{wpl|shoe fetishism|collecting over 3000 pairs of shoes|.}} Some of them also view [[Rodrigo Duterte]] as the second coming of Marcos, with [[Vigilante|death squads]] and everything. 

The "good old days" mentality also accounted for the sudden rise to prominence of Marcos's son Ferdinand "Bongbong" Marcos Jr., whose supporters have mindlessly campaigned for his presidency in 2022, despite vehement opposition and anxiety from groups such as (foreign) investors and the very same religious groups who campaigned for Marcos Sr.'s resignation back in 1986. Disturbingly enough, Bongbong won by a landslide over his closest rival, {{wpl|Leni Robredo||,}} and that is in spite of him snubbing interviews and debates, that glaring issue with him not paying his back taxes and not even feeling remorse over his family's atrocities, and allegations by former senator {{wpl|Nikki Coseteng}} who accused the younger Marcos of being a cocaine addict during his disco days; Duterte also [[stopped clock|alluded]] to Marcos's supposed drug addiction in an earlier interview. It's either that Filipinos have had their brains rotted by social media so much that they couldn't tell what's real from [[bullshit]], that Marcos played into the desperation of those affected by the pandemic by being charitable<ref group=note>As in bribe people into voting for him in broad daylight.</ref> and promising them instant prosperity, or maybe Filipinos are just so "good" at their judgement that they'd vote for a dancing pig over a stern yet honest leader. That being said, the polls were marred by widespread suspicion of systemic fraud and voter brainwashing from supporters of Robredo and other watchdog groups who saw the whole campaign as rigged in Marcos's favour, at the same time conditioning the impressionable masses through [[fake news]] and [[historical revisionism]], playing on the disillusionment people had with the Aquinos after the first EDSA revolution.

===Romania===
{{main|Romania}}
Former Romanian dictator [[Nicolae Ceaușescu]] regularly tops popularity polls in Romania,<ref>[https://transylvanianow.com/ceausescu-still-most-beloved-president-of-romania/ Ceaușescu still most beloved President of Romania] Transylvania Today. December 27, 2018</ref> and this is a man who started an extreme [[personality cult]], gave his uneducated wife a PhD, and tried to stimulate population growth by banning [[abortion]] and sending the secret police to give women pregnancy tests. On the other hand, modern Romania saw little benefit from EU membership, and is still one of the EU's poorest countries, with 25% of their population living under $5.50 USD a day and 75% of the population not attaining college education, so you know your government's policies have fucked up bad when people begin longing for an insane despot to return.

Like modern Stalin apologists in Russia, many Ceaușescu supporters are right-wing Romanian nationalists who venerate the dictator for the fact that he heavily promoted Romanian nationalism and relatively independent policies from the Eastern Bloc, placing him alongside the likes of King Carol II and ''Conducator'' Ion Antonescu, two more of Romania's former authoritarian leaders with their own [[personality cults]].

===Soviet Union under Stalin===
{{main|Stalin apologetics}}
A number of Russians today remember [[Joseph Stalin]]'s [[Soviet Union]] fondly as a period of national glory due to his defeat of [[Nazi Germany]], conveniently forgetting that Stalin was a [[dictator]] and a serious slimeball who deliberately murdered some millions of Soviet citizens and presided over [[Holodomor|famines that killed millions more]]. It's also perhaps easier to shrug off the summary arrest, imprisonment, show trials, [[torture]], and execution of political dissidents, people belonging to the wrong ethnic group, and accused "wreckers" when your apartment is no longer subject to the knock on the door at three in the morning. And that's not including the super fun [[Concentration camp|Gulag]]!

Stalinist nostalgia is a reaction to the uncertainty caused by the dissolution of the Soviet Union, where many social benefits were withdrawn, average life expectancy and GDP decreased, while oligarchic businessmen or "[[Organized crime|businessmen]]" reigned. The canonical anecdote is illustrative: "The intermediate stage between socialism and capitalism is alcoholism." This draws people towards the fantasy of "good old days" when there was "order". Many of them are also supporters of [[Vladimir Putin]], who is well aware of such Neo-Stalinists and likely utilizes them for his own authoritarian nationalist agendas.

Interestingly, many modern Stalin apologists in Russia are not tankies but right-wing Russian nationalists who venerate Stalin alongside the Orthodox Church and the Tsars, but view [[Vladimir Lenin]] as a "[[Antisemitism|Jew who destroyed Russia]]", even though Stalin himself was Georgian, while continuing many of Lenin's policies or extending them (including the anti-religious ones).

===Yugoslavia===
{{main|Yugoslavia}}
Many citizens of former Yugoslav Republics, especially [[Serbia]], miss the days of [[Josip Broz Tito]]. Unlike other examples here, this is more understandable, since Tito's Yugoslavia experienced relative political stability and was far less repressive than the rest of the Eastern Bloc, with Yugoslavs being allowed to travel overseas and enjoy Western consumer goods and films. That ended when in 1991 [[Yugoslav Wars|Yugoslavia broke apart]] and resulted in a decade-long war with plenty of [[ethnic cleansing]], concentration camps, and war crimes, whose impact can be felt in the successor states to this day.

==A tale==
[[Terry Pratchett]]'s ''Reaper Man'' (1991):
{{quotebox|The sun was near the horizon. The shortest-lived creatures on the Disc were mayflies, which barely make it through twenty-four hours.<ref group=note>In reality, although an adult {{wpl|mayfly}} does rarely last more than 24 hours, mayflies can live for several years before they moult.</ref> Two of the oldest zigzagged aimlessly over the waters of a trout stream, discussing history with some younger members of the evening hatching.

"You don't get the kind of sun now that you used to get," one of them said.

"You're right there. We had proper sun in the good old hours. It were all yellow. None of this red stuff.

"It were higher too."

"It was. You're right."

"And nymphs and larvae showed you a bit of respect."

"They did. They did," said the other mayfly vehemently.

"I reckon, if mayflies these hours behaved a bit better, we’d still be having proper sun."

The younger mayflies listened politely.

"I remember," said one of the oldest mayflies, "when all this was fields, as far as you could see."

The younger mayflies looked around.

"It’s still fields," one of them ventured, after a polite interval.

"I remember when it was better fields," said the old mayfly sharply.

"Yeah," said his colleague. "And there was a cow."

"That’s right! You’re right! I remember that cow! Stood right over there for, oh, forty, fifty minutes. It was brown, as I recall."

"You don’t get cows like that these hours." …

"What were we doing before we were talking about the sun?"

"Zigzagging aimlessly over the water," said one of the young flies. This was a fair bet in any case.

"No, before that."

"Er … you were telling us about the Great Trout."

"Ah. Yes. Right. The Trout. Well, you see, if you’ve been a good mayfly, zigzagging up and down properly—"

"—taking heed of your elders and betters—"

"—then eventually the Great Trout—"

''Clop''

''Clop''

"Yes?" said one of the younger mayflies.

There was no reply.

"The Great Trout what?" said another mayfly, nervously.

They looked down at a series of expanding concentric rings on the water.

"The holy sign!" said a mayfly. "I remember being told about that! A Great Circle in the water! Thus shall be the sign of the Great Trout!"}}

==See also==
*[[Golden age]]
*[[Neoreactionary movement]]
*[[Nostalgia]]
*[[Presentism]]
*[[Nationalist pseudohistory]]
*[[Trumpism]] — peak GOD in the USA
*[[UKIP]]

==External links==
*[https://web.archive.org/web/20160303063651/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqZ2PPOLik It's the Children Who are Wrong.]

==Bibliography==
*''The Way We Never Were: American Families And The Nostalgia Trap'', Stephanie Coontz<ref>ISBN: 0-465-09097-4</ref>
*''The Idea of Decline in Western History'', Arthur Herman<ref>Fareed Zakaria. [http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/03/30/reviews/970330.30zakerit.html An Optimist's Lament.] ''New York Times Book Review'', Mar. 30 1997.</ref>
*''The Good Old Days &mdash; They Were Terrible!'', Otto L. Bettmann<ref>ISBN: 0-394-70941-1</ref>

==Notes==
{{reflist|group=note}}

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{logfal}}

[[Category:Arguments]]
[[Category:Informal fallacies]]
[[Category:History]]

Categories: Arguments, Informal fallacies, History