Atheists hate god

{{atheism}}
[[File:Eyehategod - Roskilde Festival 2011.jpg|thumb|right"|''Eyehategod'': They would hate God if only they could spell.]]
{{cquote|[[Atheists]] don't hate fairies, [[leprechaun]]s or [[unicorn]]s because they don't exist. [[stopped clock|It is impossible to hate something that doesn't exist.]] And that makes the point.|||[[Ray Comfort]]<ref>[http://www.wnd.com/2009/02/87777/ EVANGELIST: ATHEISTS KNOW THEY'RE WRONG], [[WND]]</ref>}}
{{cquote|As always, waging war on the atheists who hate our Heavenly Father. And by atheists I also mean [[agnostic]]s, who are people who aren't sure if they hate our Heavenly Father.|||[[Edward Current]] (atheist parodist), ''Checkmate, Atheists!''<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P47OC439x88 Checkmate, Atheists!]</ref>}}

{{cquote|When a philosopher says something that is true then it is trivial. When he says something that is not trivial then it is false.
|||Carl Friedrich Gauss<ref>https://www.storyofmathematics.com/19th_gauss.html</ref><ref>http://mathshistory.st-andrews.ac.uk/Quotations/Gauss.html</ref>  (The Prince of Mathematicians)}}


The phrase "'''atheists hate god(s)'''" ('''AHG''') is a [[logical fallacy|fallacious]] [[Atheophobia|anti-atheist]] [[PRATT]] argument which attempts to label atheism as a mere [[Misotheism|emotional opposition]] to [[god]](s), rather than a reasoned denial of the existence of said god(s). Atheists do not deny the existence of god(s) because they "hate god(s)" or "want to live in [[sin]]," but because atheists ''don't believe'' in these things, any more than [[Christians]] hate, say, the gods of [[Hinduism]]. If they're mad, generally they're pissed at something a religious ''person'' or group has done.<ref group=note>And there's no doubt that religious people exist.</ref> (Maybe they even came to the atheist fold via the route of anticlericalism.) After claiming that atheists hate god, many writers go on to attack [[Militant atheism|"militant" atheism]] and [[New Atheism]]. 

In line with the varied specific beliefs of atheists in the world, some atheists may actually wish [[deity|a god]] did exist (but can't reconcile this with what they observe, such as the [[problem of evil]]), some would very much dislike the god portrayed in the [[Bible]]/[[Qur'an]] (etc.) and don't believe such a being could exist (or would be worthy of admiration if it did), some [[apatheism|simply do not care]], and many will fall somewhere in between.

The AHG argument crops up extremely commonly and shows no signs of going away: see the [[#Theist quotes]] section. A common retort to atheist arguments goes along the lines of "if you don't believe in god(s), why do you talk about [it/him/her/them] so much?"

==Conceptual flaws==
{{cquote|[I]t is impossible for an atheist to hate God. One cannot hate something that he believes is nonexistent. In fact, most atheists would love nothing more than to believe that God exists, that He created the [[universe]], and that they will never die. While that is a beautiful thought, atheists don't believe that it is true.|||AskAnAtheist.org<ref>http://www.askanatheist.org/hate.html</ref>}}
AHG relies on several flawed concepts.

===Correct target===
[[File:If God hates fags.png|thumb|right|I don't believe in your god, but I hate the morals they represent.]]
As shown in the counterexample section below, nonexistent characters can clearly be hated. But beyond that, there are several legitimate reasons that atheists may dislike "God":<ref name=AFAQ>http://www.atheistfaq.com/2007/08/why-do-atheists-hate-god.html</ref>
*Atheists may dislike people who use religion to justify their actions (especially when those actions are [[Massacres in the name of a peaceful faith|repugnant]]). (And the existence of religious people is not a controversy.) By extension, atheists may dislike the idea of the god(s) for giving this justification, despite being fictional.
*Atheists may consider that, ''if'' the god(s) did actually exist, [[Problem of evil|but made this world as it is]], then that god would be evil. Thus, they think that asserting the existence of god(s) is morally offensive — for surely a loving creator would not make such a flawed world.
*Atheists may not hate god ''per se'', but they may think that truth matters, and that getting rid of false beliefs — such as the existence of a deity<ref group=note>This statement is only assuming that a deity does not exist because it is expressing an atheist's point of view. If a deity does exist, then a belief in the existence of a deity would not actually be false. But nobody has been able to prove it one way or the other, which is why this debate happens.</ref> — is therefore important. Beyond this, atheists may think that believing in the existence of a deity makes people [[Crank magnetism|more prone to accept other falsehoods]] — such as [[faith healing]] — [[What's the harm|which ''do'' tangibly harm people]].

===Bulverism===
{{main|Bulverism}}
AHG uses the logical fallacy of Bulverism. Rather than engaging the atheist's non-emotional reasons against belief in gods, the theist asserts that the atheist's ideas come from emotion. This avoids honest argument and back-and-forth and lets the theist shut off discussion.

===Atheists, who believe in god===
{{main|1=Misotheism}}
{{cquote|This argument and its variations imply that atheists really believe in a god but hate this god and want to rebel. First, if this were true then they would not be atheists. Atheists are not people who believe in a god but are angry at it - those are just angry theists.|||Austin Cline<ref>http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_xtn_hate.htm</ref>}}
Similar to Bulverism, AHG is often used to [[Argument by assertion|assert (fallaciously)]] that there is actually no question about the existence of god(s), because ''everybody'' believes in God, ''even'' atheists! The idea is that atheists ''secretly'' believe in God, but pretend not to believe due to hate.

This is a terrible [[straw man]] of atheist positions.

If this were so, then there would be no reason to argue about a universally accepted truth, and so the only disagreement would be whether we should love god(s) (theist) or hate god(s) (atheist). This, in turn, offers an easy opportunity for the theist to point out all the nice things that their god(s) has supposedly done. This is much easier than logically examining the plausibility of the theist's doctrine.

This is also an abuse of terminology because even someone who believes in secret still believes, and misotheism would be the correct term for a believer who hates the god they believe in. An "atheist" who hated god would just be an angry believer, not a non-believer. It is absurd to suggest otherwise.

Hilariously, this would mean that believers would not be able to tell "atheists" that they are going to hell for "not believing in God" (even if according to those theists, they believe in God), because if belief was the only standard needed to go to heaven, these "atheists" who are angry at God would be going straight to heaven. If "everyone believed in God" as some theists posit, then they could not tell ''anybody'' they're going to hell, unless their religion requires more than faith to go to heaven.

==Counterexamples==
The idea that "atheists hate god" has several obvious counterexamples.

===Actual-religions counterexample===
{{cquote|This is a bit like asking a Christian why they're so angry with Allah.|||Jeff Herbert<ref name=AFAQ />}}
First and foremost, if this argument is true, then Christians must hate every single one of the [[gods Christians don't believe in]] by merely failing to believe in them, and by arguing that YHWH is superior. (Exchange "Christian" and "YHWH" as needed.)

To be fair, some do, because they believe [[Demonization|that the gods of other religions are literally demons]]. For example, many Vedic deities became [[Demon|demons]] in [[Zoroastrianism]].

===Fictional counterexample===
{{cquote|[I]f you say something like "I hate Darth Vader"[,] no-one's going to assume that you believe he exists. You don't have to specify that you hate the concept of him.<ref>https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/iwvzt/if_you_hate_god/c27b2fo</ref>}}{{cquote|I hate god in the same way I hate Voldemort.||| Jason Millet<ref>https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/49rdg3/atheists_hate_god_rationalwiki/d0uo2gl</ref>}}
Temporarily assume that there exists a being, ''Zylgrp, the Gibbering Unknown Terror''. Thus sayeth the ''Book of Zylgrp'': 

{{quotebox|On one bright and beautiful spring morning, ''Zylgrp'' awoke, yawned, and slaughtered every living human. ''Zylgrp'' tore their every atom apart, though he made sure to stagger the killing, so that people would have to watch their loved ones disintegrate before they too disappeared. It was unimaginably painful, for the humans. ''Zylgrp'' laughed as he watched. And then, exhausted, ''Zylgrp'' went to bed and slept peacefully. Thus sayeth the ''Book of Zylgrp''. Amen.}}

The vast majority of people (with the possible exception of [[VHEMT]]) would dislike ''Zylgrp, the Gibbering Unknown Terror''. They might even hate him. Yet ''Zylgrp'' does not exist. Rather than hating ''Zylgrp'', they hate what ''Zylgrp'' stands for — omnicide. In the same way, atheists may "hate" gods because they disagree with the morals that that god represents.

And for [[Jews]]/[[Christians]]/[[Muslims]] who would protest that their god is less slaughter-happy, consider the [[Great Flood]] and [[examples of God personally killing people]].

To summarize, James Kirk Wall writes:<ref>http://www.chicagonow.com/an-agnostic-in-wheaton/2013/10/atheists-dont-hate-god-they-hate-your-god/</ref>

{{quotebox|Let’s suppose, hypothetically speaking, someone invented a character with supernatural powers that was jealous, vengeful and cruel who inflicted death and suffering on countless people including women and children. And let’s suppose there was a story about this character coming face to face with the Incredible Hulk. Wouldn't you be cheering for the Hulk to kick his ass? And yet neither character is real.}}

===Gross counterexample===
The "{{wpl|Puppy monkey baby|puppy-monkey-baby|"}} is ''everything'' you don't want:

The puppy-monkey-baby is a fiction invented by advertisers, now (hopefully) unemployed. It doesn't exist. Yet humans have a universal reaction: unbounded, frothing, seething hatred for the mere possibility that it might. How? Because it is possible to hate something, even a nonexisting something, for what it represents — in this case, [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UncannyValley horrifying CGI] for a horrifying product.

To atheists, a "god" is merely a fiction invented by another flawed human. Hating that fictional character is not difficult, and does not require believing that said god exists.

==Scientific view==
[[File:Reason for Atheism.png|thumb|right|300px|From the Pew Research Center, 2012.<ref>http://publicreligion.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/AVS-2012-Pre-election-Report-for-Web.pdf</ref>]]{{cquote|Atheists are not angry at God (just as they are not angry at the [[Tooth Fairy]]), and most of us didn’t become atheists because something bad happened to us. We became atheists because we find no evidence for any gods.|||Herb Silverman<ref>http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2014/03/18/10-things-i-wish-everyone-knew-about-atheism/31345</ref>}}
Exline ''et. al'' 2011 summarized several studies on religion and attitudes towards God, and found:<ref>[http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/psp/100/1/129/ Anger toward God: Social-cognitive predictors, prevalence, and links with adjustment to bereavement and cancer.] Exline, Julie J.; Park, Crystal L.; Smyth, Joshua M.; Carey, Michael P. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Vol 100(1), Jan 2011, 129-148.</ref>

{{quotebox|Religiosity and age correlated negatively with anger toward God. [....] Some atheists and agnostics reported anger involving God, particularly on measures emphasizing past experiences and images of a hypothetical God.}}

These are two interesting findings:

#More religious people were less likely to hate God. So religious people don't hate God. Phew!
#Yes, atheists ''do'' have hate &mdash; in two distinct ways, neither of which requires that they believe that god exists. The first is hate against a hypothetical idea &mdash; ''ie'', if God ''did'' exist, as described by the Bible or [[Qur'an]], then they would hate that god. The second is hate against a historical idea &mdash; ''e.g.'', they had political views or a sexuality that opposed what their former religion was, and so left that religion (see chart) and lost belief in that deity.

==Theist quotes==
Multiple examples of this outstandingly weird reasoning exist.  Some are showcased below for your amusement.

{{cquote|I have had a lot of conversations with atheists. ''Many express a strong hatred of God.'' I have been at a loss to explain this. How can you hate someone you don’t believe in? Why the hostility? If God does not exist, shouldn’t atheists just relax and seek a good time before they become plant food? Why should it matter if people believe in God? Nothing matters if atheism is true.|||[[Don Batten]], [[Creation Ministries International]]<ref>http://creation.com/atheist-god-hate</ref><ref>http://creationrevolution.com/why-do-atheists-hate-god/</ref><ref>http://stormbringer005.blogspot.com/2011/11/if-god-doesnt-exist-why-do-atheists.html</ref>}}

{{cquote|We can become incensed by objects and creatures both animate and inanimate. We can even, in a limited sense, be bothered by the fanciful characters in books and dreams. But creatures like unicorns that don't exist — that we truly believe not to exist — tend not to raise our ire. We certainly don't blame the one-horned creatures for our problems.

The one social group that takes exception to this rule is atheists. [....] Many claim to believe that God does not exist and yet, according to empirical studies, ''they tend to be the people most angry at him.''|||Joe Carter<ref>http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/when-atheists-are-angry-at-god</ref>}}

{{cquote|However, in the interest of total disclosure, let me add that my problems with faith were not solely intellectual. I had a vested interest in the non-existence of God because I was living a rather immoral lifestyle and did not want to be held accountable for my behavior. To me, atheism opened up a world of hedonism that I knew wouldn’t be acceptable to God if he existed.

(Let me be clear: I’m not saying that all atheists are hedonists. I’m just saying that, ''for me, atheism cleared the way for me to live a self-indulgent, me-first, narcissistic life.'' And to be honest, to this day I can’t figure out why atheists would choose any other path, although I know many do.)|||[[Lee Strobel]], discussing [[I used to be an atheist|the time when he was an atheist]]<ref>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/01/02/lee-strobel-answers-your-questions-part-1/</ref>}}

{{cquote|[W]hen a person refuses to come to Christ, it is never just because of lack of evidence or because of intellectual difficulties: at root, he refuses to come because he willingly ignores and rejects the drawing of God’s Spirit on his heart. No one in the final analysis really fails to become a Christian because of lack of arguments; ''he fails to become a Christian because he loves the darkness'' rather than light and wants nothing to do with God.|||[[Apologist|"professional philosopher"]] [[William Lane Craig]]<ref>William Lane Craig, ''Reasonable Faith'' (1994), pp. 47 & 49-50. The relevant passages are quoted [http://infidels.org/library/modern/robert_price/stinketh.html here] and [https://theincredulouslamb.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/reading-reasonable-faith-chapter-1/ here].</ref>}}

{{cquote|I was at this time living, like so many Atheists or [[Antitheism|Antitheists]], in a whirl of contradictions. I maintained that God did not exist. ''I was also very angry with God for not existing. I was equally angry with Him for creating a world.'' Why should creatures have the burden of existence forced on them without their consent?|||[[C.S. Lewis]], discussing the time when he was an atheist<ref>''Surprised by Joy'' by C.S. Lewis (1998) Fount. ISBN 0006280838.</ref>{{rp|133}}}}

{{cquote|From that experience I have learned that there is no such thing as "intellectual atheism". ''Atheism is a system of sin denial. Atheists deny God because they decry and violate His laws and His love.''|||William J. Murray<ref>http://www.rfcnet.org/Updates/Athesist-adnj.htm</ref>}}

{{cquote|I've noticed it is pretty common for them [atheists] to say that they "lack belief in God" or "don't believe He exists" and then site {{sic}} [[Old Testament]] Scriptures where God does what they think is morally reprehensible (which is funny since they have no objective and absolute morals by which to make such judgments). They complain, mock, and pronounce ethical condemnation against the God of the Bible … just like you would do to someone you hate. Hmmm … So, ''they really do hate God''.|||Matt Slick<ref>https://carm.org/do-atheists-hate-god</ref>}}

{{cquote|Of course, atheists will say that they can't hate what they don't believe in. But if that is the case and they actually deny that God exists (either by positive denial or passive lack-of-belief), then ''they are expressing denial of the Christian concept of God by not properly affirming Him''.|||Matt Slick<ref>https://carm.org/do-atheists-hate-the-god-they-dont-believe-in</ref>}}

{{cquote|As we can see by the sheer passion and virulence of the atheist - they seem to hate the Christian God - we are not dealing here with cool philosophy up against faith without a brain. Atheism is every bit of a religious commitment as Christianity itself. ''It represents the latest version of the human assault on God'', born out of resentment that we do not in fact rule the world and that God calls on us to submit our lives to him. It is a form of idolatry in which we worship ourselves.|||Sydney Anglican Archbishop Peter Jensen<ref>http://www.news.com.au/national/atheists-are-believers-who-hate-god-says-anglican-archbishop-peter-jensen/story-e6frfkvr-1225848927144</ref>}}

{{cquote|They’re a small group of people, and they get on Fox or CNN and they rant and they rave, and I pretty much based my character [in [[God's Not Dead|God Is Not Dead]]<nowiki>]</nowiki> off of these guys that I see who are just angry — they’re just filled with anger and hatred.

On the one hand, I feel sorry for them, but then I kind of laugh at them. Why would anybody spend so much time ranting and raving about something they don’t believe in?|||[[Kevin Sorbo]]<ref>http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/28/kevin-sorbo-atheists-hate-god-because-they-know-he-exists-and-theyre-angry-because-the-truth-hurts-audio/</ref><ref>http://www.rawstory.com/2014/08/kevin-sorbo-atheists-are-angry-because-they-secretly-know-god-exists-and-is-judging-them/</ref>}}

{{cquote|Is it satanic? Is it some spiritual thing, people who are ''atheists, they hate God, they hate the expression of God''? And they are angry with the world, angry with themselves, angry with society and they take it out on innocent people who are worshiping God. And whether it’s a Sikh temple or a Baptist church or a Catholic church or a Muslim mosque, whatever it is, I just abhor this kind of violence, and it’s the the kind of thing that we should do something about. But what do you do? Well, you talk about the love of God and hope it has some impact.|||[[Pat Robertson]], discussing the {{wpl|Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting||,}} which was perpetrated by a [[neo-Nazi]] who spoke of a "racial holy war"<ref>http://www.rawstory.com/2012/08/pat-robertson-sikh-temple-massacre-because-atheists-hate-god/</ref><ref>http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/07/ex-friend-says-temple-shooter-wade-michael-page-was-a-loner/</ref>}}

==See also==
*[[Misotheism]]: God exists, and we hate him!
*[[Richard Dawkins - God Hater]]

==External links==
*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEBAC0EPojk Can atheists hate God?], [[Hemant Mehta]]
*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wguAQHWVcZY Do Atheists Hate God?], [[DarkMatter2525]]
*The [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NayTheist Nay-Theist], [[TV Tropes]]
*[http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_hatred_of_God Atheism and hatred of God], [[Conservapedia]]

==Notes==
{{reflist|group=note}}

==References==
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[[Category:Clichéed sayings]]

Categories: Clichéed sayings