Nice guy

Categories: Theories

[[File:niceguys.jpg|330px|right|thumb|[[cope]] [[jestermaxx]] poem]]
A '''nice guy''' is a [[beta]] [[Men|male]] who acts agreeable and pleasant towards either [[Copulation|sex]], often [[shy]], [[social awkwardness|socially awkward]] and bad at [[flirting]]. [[Blackpill]]ers and [[redpill]]ers accuse nice guys of being [[bluepill|bluepilled]] about [[Femoid|women]]'s mating preferences, and predict their best hope is to be [[betabux]]xed to a post-[[wall]] foid, provided foids are being encouraged to [[demographics|marry very late]]. Nice guy's niceness and tendency to smile is commonly explained by [[dominance hierarchy|low dominance status]], [[neuroatypicality]], physical weakness, religious or [[gynocentrism|gynocentric]] domestication, or a genetic disposition for [[shyness]]. Many nice guys may genetically be slow [[life history]] strategists, programmed to wait [[arranged marriage|to be married]] which never occurs in modern society.
== Women prefer bullies over nice men ==
[[File:Eee.jpg|330px|right|thumb|The Chad is [[Jeremy Meeks]]; the looksmatch is [[St. Blackops2cel]].]]
Contrary to men, women tend to prefer a disagreeable partner during the initial stages of [[dating]] once men have passed their [[LMS]] test.<ref>https://www.newsweek.com/study-finds-men-nice-women-not-other-way-around-261269</ref><ref>https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167214543879</ref> This results in [[bullies]] having substantially more sexual partners than the bullied.<ref>http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/brock-bullies-sex-1.4487053 [[https://archive.fo/ZGvcF Archive.fo]]</ref><ref>https://rd.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs40806-017-0126-4</ref><ref>https://www.deccanchronicle.com/lifestyle/sex-and-relationship/161217/dominance-may-make-bullies-more-attractive-leading-to-more-sex-study.html</ref><ref>https://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/The-Dark-Triad-Personality.pdf</ref><ref>https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/head-games/201310/why-do-women-fall-bad-boys [[https://archive.fo/e6p19 Archive.fo]]</ref><ref>https://www.timesofisrael.com/women-really-dont-go-for-nice-guys-study-indicates/</ref> This gives men an incentive to act like jerks to avoid being [[Ghosting (dating)|ghosted]]. Women consequently tend to complain that there are no genuinely nice guys, which is thought to be a [[shit test]], [[virtue signaling]], or self-delusion.

These insights are central to the [[red pill]], [[black pill]], and the countless clickbaity news articles about how "[[Asshole#Women_choose_psychopaths_disproportionately|women love psychopaths]]", and they are related to [[hybristophilia]], i.e. women's sexual interest in criminal and violent males.

The immense contradiction between the socially desired male niceness and goodness and their low sexual success as a result of female mate choice has motivated mass murderers [[Elliot Rodger]] and [[Alek Minassian]], claiming themselves to be "supreme gentlemen" and thus deserving female sexual attention. Minassian explicitly stated having been "too nice" to women,<ref>https://youtube.com/watch?v=qhnd9J6dNSA?t=2418</ref><ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhnd9J6dNSA&t=6882</ref> though later he confessed he was not primarily driven by retaliation against women and only used incel [[Meme|memes]] as a veneer to gain popularity.<ref>https://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2021ONSC1258.pdf</ref>

An explanation for women's preference for bullies may be the [[bodyguard hypothesis]]. A very nice man can't protect. Excessively warmhearted men are also often perceived as [[creepy]] and suspect and manipulative,<ref>https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/07/27/the-kindest-cut</ref> which they may as well be. Excessive niceness is also awkward [[signaling theory|signaling]] as it is perceived as desperate, which in turn points to prior failure and flaws.
==Fake nice guys==
Both [[womanosphere|womanospherians]] and [[manosphere|manospherians]] accuse many men of being "fake nice", but in different ways. 

[[Womanosphere|Womanospherians]] seem to have a problem with virtually all genuinely nice guys, but will label them as Nice Guys™ nonetheless (see [https://old.reddit.com/r/niceguys /r/niceguys]). They deem all actual nice guys as fake nice guys, distracting from the fact that women reward anti-social behaviour. They see it as hypocritical when nice guys get angry at the fact that most women in the Western world do not find nice guys sexually attractive. Because anger is often not nice when directed outwardly.

Womanospherians also have a problem with actual fake nice guys, but so does everyone else.

Manospherians are more tolerant to nice guys (see [[Karen Straughan]]) but are very critical of men who they perceive as being much more nice to women than as to men, who they call [[white knight]]s.
Both [[womanosphere|womanospherians]] and [[manosphere|manospherians]] accuse men who they perceive as nice guys of deceiving women in dating.
[[File:EmpLemon's YouTube Ratio.png|thumb|Niceness also applied to YouTube video rating (table by EmpLemon)<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdGbOT8NXnE</ref>]]
== The "5:1" and "11:1"/"20:1" Theory of Social Conflicts ==
The '''Magic Ratio'''<ref>https://thepowermoves.com/how-to-stay-together/</ref>, invented by Gottman<ref>https://www.johngottman.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Marital-processes-predictive-of-later-dissolution-behavior-physiology-and-health.pdf</ref> & Levenson, this the idea that any good relationship should be 5:1, or the balance of 5 positive interaction per negative interaction when in conflicts. Relationships that are at the verge to break down tend to be in 0.8:1 range ("Negative Sentiment Override"). Most interpret this as Niceness being a virtue, but as others have noted<ref>https://thrivetherapyflorida.com/2018/08/22/how-to-be-an-emotional-millionaire/</ref><ref>http://couplestraininginstitute.com/gottman-couples-and-marital-therapy/</ref>, a ratio of 20:1 or higher is often an indicator of "'''Positive Sentiment Override'''", which is when one is having a [[Oneitis]] leading to a breakdown in social relations. Peterson<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQk8W8EnbLs</ref><ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fesSvXKxYd0</ref><ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QVQZSSi_m0</ref> also claimed that 11:1 or higher is enough for someone to be considered a [[Nice Guy]].

This ratio is also applicable to children's relationships and friendships, as noted by Gottman. It has been demonstrated that positivity has some correlation to productivity team cohesion<ref>http://www.bvsde.paho.org/texcom/cd047472/MLosada.pdf</ref><ref>https://teamcoachinginternational.com/breaking-the-code-on-high-performing-teams/</ref> (5.6:1 for high-performer against the 1.9:1 average). Coincidently, this ratio also coincides with the YouTube "Downvote" ratio<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdGbOT8NXnE</ref> or simple, "'''The Ratio'''" on quality and catering vs controversy (<50% is messed up, 50~79% is mistaken, 80~89% is controversial, 90~96% is normal, 97+% is catering). An observation to be made here is that the "niceness" scales exponentially. These ratios are also tied to the [[Pareto principle]], and that the utility of ratings follows a distribution similar to the Log-Normal. An approximation towards an index of deviation from the norm is <code>LOG(100/(6.7*(100-appoval_ratings)))/LOG(1.9)</code>, and if the deviation exceeds 1 and approaching 2, it is more likely to end badly. Further, the maximum the deviation approximates 3 on the negative end (0% approval rating), which when mirrored towards the positive sentiment override, would approximate the ratio of 46:1 (or 97.8% approval), mirroring the Talmudic '''Sanhedrin'''<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Assembly</ref><ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanhedrin</ref> rule of forbidding unanimous verdicts within a size 23, 71, 30, or 80 person "jury" (averaging 44.5), and that the lower "jury" of 23 or 30 appoximates Gottman's "Positive Sentiment Override" rule of 20:1.
=== Critique of Gottman's "Solutions" ===
The major critiques against Gottman is that even though the satisfaction correlation can be replicated<ref><nowiki>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1828692</nowiki></ref><ref>https://doi.org/10.2307%2F353725</ref><ref><nowiki>https://silo.tips/download/the-empirical-basis-for-gottman-couples-therapy</nowiki></ref><ref>https:/doi.org/10.1177/0265407501184005</ref>, replications of his "programs" did not yield significant change in distressed low-SES families in independent studies<ref>https://www.wikiwand.com/en/John_Gottman#/Independent_studies_testing_Gottman_marriage_courses</ref>. The same can be applied to the productivity studies, where there is a lack of distinction between [[platitudes]] and genuine compliments. This disproves the basic [[Bluepill]] of "just talk out your feelings".
==Notable nice guys in the incelosphere==
The following individuals have been indentified as nice guys by [[normie]]s.
*[[George Sodini]]
* [[Kyle Incel]]
*[[Downhill D Miller]]
==Gallery==
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File:429.jpg
File:Niceguy.png
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==References==
<references />
==See also==
*[[Male feminist]]
*[[White knight]]
*[[Friendzone]]
*[[TRP]]
*[[PUA]]
*[[Asshole]]
*[[Soy points|Soy Points]]
[[Category:Theories]]
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{{Behavioralism}}