debates/debates2025-11-19d conversation_4
Source: hansard.parliament.uk (2025-11-19)

UK Parliament Hansard data: debates/debates2025-11-19d conversation_4

Sarah Hall:What assessment he has made of the adequacy of the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023. \p Hilary Benn: The 2023 legacy Act was rejected by all the major Northern Ireland political parties, as well as by our domestic courts, by victims and survivors and by many veterans, who saw it as an affront to the rule of law that they sought to protect. The Government took a significant step in fulfilling our commitment to repeal and replace the Act by introducing the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill, which received its Second Reading yesterday. \p Sam Rushworth: I am proud to represent a community with a lot of veterans, many of whom served in Northern Ireland. Who is the Secretary of State engaging with to ensure that the protections for our veterans in the legislation are as strong and effective as possible? \p Hilary Benn: Those protections have been drawn up following extensive consultation with veterans organisations, and I gave the House a commitment yesterday evening that I will continue to talk to veterans, the Royal British Legion, the veterans commissions and others to make sure that we get them right. \p Sarah Hall: My constituents Colin and Wendy Parry, whose 12-year-old son Tim was murdered, along with three-year-old Johnathan Ball, in the 1993 Warrington bombing, have waited over 30 years for justice. Will the  Secretary of State ensure that the Government act on the extracts of the Shawcross report and the all-party parliamentary group on Northern Ireland’s 2018 recommendations, and that there will be work across Government to deliver justice for Libyan-sponsored IRA terrorism? Will he meet me to discuss these matters? \p Hilary Benn: The whole House will once again want to express its sympathy to all the families affected by that terrible bombing. The Government and predecessor Governments have raised this issue with the Libyan authorities. Engaging with them is a difficult process, and there are complications to do with the way in which their assets are held. The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office is the lead on this matter, and I will make sure that the appropriate Minister hears the request that my hon. Friend has made. \p Alex Easton: Is it not the reality that this legislation has failed to win the confidence of many who served, and that we now need clear, robust protections against repeated investigations so that we honour our veterans in practice and not just in rhetoric? \p Hilary Benn: Those protections, including against repeated investigations, are clearly set out in the Bill that the House gave a Second Reading to yesterday. I hope that, as people come to understand that they are there and how they work, they will offer the reassurance that the hon. Gentleman is looking for. \p Jim Allister: Yesterday in the Second Reading debate, the Secretary of State gave an undertaking that he would not appoint any paramilitaries to the victims and survivors group. In light of that undertaking, will he now underwrite it by indicating that he will accept an amendment to put into statutory form that there cannot be any paramilitary serving on that group? If his undertaking is good, let us make it even better by putting it in statute. \p Hilary Benn: From memory, I gave that undertaking three times at the Dispatch Box yesterday, and I hoped that it would provide the hon. and learned Member with the assurance that he seeks, because I am clear that no one with that record will be appointed to the victims and survivors panel. \p Perran Moon: Yesterday, along with the Veterans Minister, I met a group of special forces veterans based in Cornwall. The legacy Act’s immunity scheme, which would have enabled immunity for terrorists and included other key provisions, was ruled against by our domestic courts. Is it not the case that any new Government would have had to deal with that? \p Hilary Benn: My hon. Friend is right—that is indeed the case. It was wrong to bring forward legislation to seek to give immunity to terrorists, which is what the last Government’s legacy Act did, and that is probably the principal reason why it had no support in Northern Ireland, including from victims and survivors. It is a fundamental principle that we believe in the rule of law and that it should apply to everyone. That is why the Government are acting, through the legislation and the remedial order, to finally lay that failed attempt at immunity to rest. \p Gregory Stafford: Was the Irish Deputy Prime Minister Simon Harris wrong when he said that there were no new protections for veterans in the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill? \p Hilary Benn: There clearly are new protections for veterans in the troubles Bill—throughout the legislation—that were never in the previous legislation that the last Government passed. We have laid them out to the House, and the veterans community and others can see clearly what they are. \p Alex Burghart: On 15 August 1998 in Omagh, the Real IRA murdered 29 people, including a woman who was pregnant with twins. It was the deadliest attack of the troubles, and the most wicked. Following the 2021 recommendation of Mr Justice Horner, the last Conservative Government launched the Omagh inquiry into whether UK state authorities could have done anything to prevent the bombing. However, the bombers planned and launched their attack from the Republic of Ireland, which is why Mr Justice Horner also said that an independent inquiry was needed in the Republic to ask whether Irish state authorities could have done anything. Given that the UK inquiry was announced three years ago, did the Secretary of State raise the question of an inquiry in the south with his counterparts on his recent trip to Dublin? \p Hilary Benn: I have raised that question in my conversations with the Irish Government. It is, of course, for the Irish Government to decide whether they wish to hold a public inquiry but, as the hon. Gentleman will be well aware, the Irish Government have committed to co-operate fully with the inquiry that the last Government established, both through the memorandum of understanding on the provision of information and the commitment they have made to legislate to allow witnesses to give evidence to it. \p Alex Burghart: I thank the Secretary of State for his answer, and I am aware that the Republic is sharing the information with our inquiry, but he will be aware that the Omagh inquiry is only capable of answering questions about what UK state authorities did and did not do. Four years ago, Mr Justice Horner said that there needed to be a parallel inquiry in the south. The victims and families recognise that; does the Secretary of State recognise it? \p Hilary Benn: I recognise what the judge said in his judgment four years ago, and I strongly support what the last Government did to establish a public inquiry, but it is for the Irish Government to make that decision. I hope that with the unprecedented co-operation that the Irish Government have undertaken to give the inquiry, they will provide vital information for the inquiry to get to the bottom of what happened. \p Lindsay Hoyle: I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson. \p Paul Kohler: As I hope that the Secretary of State knows, my party and I are hugely supportive of his efforts to move beyond the Tories’ failed legacy Act, provided the legitimate concerns of our veterans are fully met. Will he detail specifically,  either now or in writing, which veterans’ groups he has consulted on the wording of the Bill, and which ones have expressed acceptance of the Bill as drafted? \p Hilary Benn: I will gladly write to the hon. Gentleman to set out the veterans’ organisations that the Government, the Defence Secretary, the Minister for the Armed Forces and I have engaged with in drawing up those protections, and I have already indicated to the House the groups that we will continue to talk to as we take that work forward.