debates/debates2025-11-05f conversation_8
Source: hansard.parliament.uk (2025-11-05)

UK Parliament Hansard data: debates/debates2025-11-05f conversation_8

Connor Rand:If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 5 November. \p David Lammy: My right hon. and learned Friend the Prime Minister is in Brazil, attending COP30 in Belém and the Earthshot prize ceremony alongside His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales.

The thoughts of the whole House remain with those affected by the appalling scenes we saw in Huntingdon and Peterborough, where I spent seven years of my life at school. We thank our emergency services for their outstanding professionalism and the individuals who showed such tremendous courage to defend others.

This weekend is Remembrance Sunday. We will never forget those who fought to defend our freedom. It has been one of the greatest honours of my career to meet our troops around the world, whether in Cyprus, the Gulf or Australia. This week, the Government announced the biggest renewal of armed forces housing in more than 50 years, kick-starting one of Britain’s most ambitious building programmes in decades.

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today. \p Connor Rand: May I start by congratulating the Deputy Prime Minister on being the first black person to ever answer Prime Minister’s questions? It is a landmark moment for this place and for our country, and I hope he is proud.

My eight-year-old constituent Phoebe is battling cancer. Her parents are fundraising to help with treatment costs and to raise awareness of Phoebe’s condition. People across my constituency have been moved by her story and have come together to raise over £122,000. Will the Deputy Prime Minister join me in paying tribute to Phoebe’s inspirational bravery, and will he celebrate the incredible generosity and community spirit of Altrincham and Sale West? \p David Lammy: It is very kind of my hon. Friend to say those opening remarks. I am conscious that my right hon. Friend the Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott), and indeed the Leader of the Opposition, are both trailblazers who have stood at the Dispatch Box. It is important to recognise the progress that has been made, particularly in the wake of Black History Month.

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. It is heartening to see a community rally around someone as brave as Phoebe, and I wish Phoebe, her twin brother Eric and her parents, Lindsey and Matt, the very best in their fight against cancer. \p Lindsay Hoyle: I call the shadow Secretary of State for Defence. \p James Cartlidge: May I begin by associating myself and the Opposition with the Deputy Prime Minister’s remarks about the terrible, horrific attack in Huntingdon? We wish a speedy recovery to those still in hospital and pay tribute to the brave actions of the public and the police.

Overnight, the father of the girl assaulted in Epping by Hadush Kebatu, the illegal immigrant released by accident, said that the Government had failed them “relentlessly”. I confess, I am surprised that the Deputy Prime Minister has not already apologised. I am going to give him an opportunity now: will he apologise to the family concerned? \p David Lammy: It is great to see the hon. Gentleman in his place. I had expected to see the shadow Justice Secretary, the right hon. Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick), but I am nevertheless pleased to see the hon. Gentleman today. He must have missed the statement on this matter, because in it, I of course said sorry for the anxiety caused while Kebatu was at large. I repeat that now. It is hugely important that Dame Lynne Owens gets to the bottom of what has happened with her further investigation. \p James Cartlidge: Watching the interview last night was absolutely heartbreaking. I have to say, I do think the Deputy Prime Minister owes it to the family to offer an apology here on the Floor of the House—[Interruption.] But he should have done it at the start of his remarks.

These are very serious matters, which is why I want to ask the right hon. Gentleman a further, very important question: can he reassure the House that since Kebatu was released, no other asylum-seeking offender has been accidentally let out of prison? \p David Lammy: The Chamber is, thankfully, quiet, so I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman did not hear me when I said that of course I apologise and am sorry for the anxiety caused. Let me just remind him that he was a Justice Minister who allowed our prisons to get to this state in the first place. It is now for us to fix the mess that we have got into. It is important that Dame Lynne Owens can continue her work and understand what is happening. The hon. Gentleman knows that early releases began under the Conservatives’ watch in 2021. \p James Cartlidge: We are talking about extremely serious crimes. I am going to ask the Deputy Prime Minister the question again. Can he reassure the House that since Kebatu was released, no other asylum-seeking offender has been accidentally let out of prison? It is a very specific question for him to answer. \p David Lammy: After Kebatu’s release, I put in place the toughest checks we have ever had in the prison system. It is important that Lynne Owens is able to get to the bottom of her work. I suspect there will be more checks and balances that we need to do. We inherited a complicated system that the Conservatives set up that was letting people out on the sly. That is part of the problem, and we are trying to fix it. \p James Cartlidge: The right hon. Gentleman is the Justice Secretary; he is responsible for the justice system, and he needs to take responsibility. I am asking him a straight question and I am going to repeat it once more, for the avoidance of doubt, because he did not answer it twice. He is here to answer questions, so can he reassure the House that since Kebatu was released, no other asylum-seeking offender has been accidentally let out of prison? It is a clear question. Can he give an answer? \p David Lammy: Get a grip, man! I know I am the Justice Secretary. That is why I am at the Dispatch Box, also as Deputy Prime Minister. We know that. [Interruption.] I am not going to pray in aid. Dame Lynne Owens is a former deputy commissioner in London and was head of the National Crime Agency. It is for her to get to the bottom of this work. We know that there have been spikes since 2021 under the hon. Gentleman’s watch. When did he come to this House and apologise? \p James Cartlidge: The purpose of government is to take—[Interruption.] \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. I want to hear both Members. Be quiet. \p James Cartlidge: It is getting noisy in here, so I say this again, just in case the Deputy Prime Minister did not hear me. He is the Justice Secretary. Can he reassure the House that since—[Interruption.] \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. I will have no gestures from Members in the balcony. Do not gesture to me; it is not a wise decision. This is important. It is Prime Minister’s questions, and all our constituents are listening. \p James Cartlidge: People in Epping and right across the country want to know the answer, so I am going to ask the right hon. Gentleman this question again. He is the Justice Secretary. Can he reassure the House that since Kebatu was released, no other asylum-seeking offender has been accidentally let out of prison? Can he answer the question? \p David Lammy: I have got to tell the hon. Gentleman: I spent 14 years in opposition and I did a hell of a lot better than he has just done. I have answered the question. Under the Conservatives’ watch, prisons were in a mess. Suicides went up, prison officers were cut, and 20,000 neighbourhood police officers were lost. We have deported more people in the last year than they deported in the last five years. Please, I am not going to take any lecturing from the hon. Gentleman— \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. Mr Dewhirst and Mr Stafford, you test my patience each week. Today is not the day to do so; we have a long weekend coming. \p James Cartlidge: The public are extremely concerned about what happened in the Kebatu case; they want to know that there will not be a repeat, so I am putting to the Deputy Prime Minister a very clear question about his responsibilities. I repeat: can he reassure the House that since Kebatu was released no other asylum-seeking offender has been accidently let out of prison? Can he answer the question? \p David Lammy: I am looking forward to being up against the right hon. Member for Newark next time. In 25 years in this House, I have not witnessed a more shameful spectacle, frankly, than what the Conservatives left in our justice system—their criminal negligence, on the hon. Gentleman’s watch as a Justice Minister. They left our prisons on the brink of collapse entirely, threatening to allow offenders to run wild on our streets—he knows that! Rape victims waited years for their day in court—he knows that! Neighbourhood policing was decimated, leaving our people feeling unsafe  in their communities. The Conservatives have not learned a thing. We are tackling knife crime. That is why it is falling. We are putting 13,000 more bobbies on the streets and kicking out 5,000 foreign national offenders. I have got to say to the hon. Gentleman: he should do better. \p Lindsay Hoyle: I call Jonathan Brash. \p Jonathan Brash: rose— \p James Cartlidge: rose— \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. I thought we had had six. I call James Cartlidge—[Interruption.] You have had your six questions—I was correct! I call Jonathan Brash.