debates/debates2025-12-03e conversation_6
Source: hansard.parliament.uk (2025-12-03)

UK Parliament Hansard data: debates/debates2025-12-03e conversation_6

Ian Lavery:If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 3 December. \p Keir Starmer: Our Budget took important measures to tackle the cost of living. That is why we have frozen rail fares and prescription charges, and cut energy bills for every family by £150. Today, we are going further. For too long, parents have been pushed into spending more on infant formula than needed, told they are paying for better quality and left hundreds of pounds out of pocket. I can announce today that we are changing that. We will take action to give parents and carers the confidence to access infant formula at more affordable prices, with clearer guidance for retailers and help for new parents to use loyalty points and vouchers. Together, that will save them up to £500 before their child’s first birthday. That builds on our action to lift half a million children out of poverty and our action on breakfast clubs, and our child poverty strategy will be published later this week.

This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today. \p Ian Lavery: The north-east is still picking up the pieces of the destruction and decimation of 14 years of Tory government. Men in the north-east of England still expect to live 10 years less than people in other parts of the country. Women in the north-east of England are making, on average, over £11,000 less in wages than people in other parts of the country. In my patch of Blyth and Ashington, 33% of kids are living in poverty, the unemployment rates are above the national average, and wages are below the national average. The people in the north-east are a proud breed, and we deserve much more than this, mind. Can the Prime Minister assure me  and the people in my constituency and in the north-east whether there is much to look forward to on the horizon, and will he meet me to discuss how we can shape it? [Interruption.] \p Keir Starmer: My hon. Friend talks about poverty in his constituency, and the Opposition heckle him. They should be ashamed. It is our moral mission to tackle poverty. We have abolished the two-child cap. That will be over 3,000 children, I think, in his constituency lifted out of poverty. I am very proud to be able to do that. We have boosted the national minimum wage by £1,500, and we are adding the £150 that we are taking off everyone’s energy bills. We are driving economic growth right across the country, devolving power and investing across all of the country. \p Lindsay Hoyle: We come to the Leader of the Opposition. \p Kemi Badenoch: Let me first pay tribute to Sir John Stanley, who passed away yesterday. Sir John was a dedicated MP for 41 years, and we send our deepest condolences to his family.

Does the Prime Minister believe that when an organisation descends into total shambles, the person at the top should resign? \p Keir Starmer: Can I first join the Leader of the Opposition in her comments about Sir John? I am sure I speak for the whole House in that respect.

I was very proud to lead this party at the Budget last week, where the Chancellor set out that we would protect the NHS, which we have done in the Budget; create the conditions for economic stability, not repeating the mistake of austerity; and bear down on the cost of living by taking £150 off energy bills. We are fixing the mess that the Conservatives left, and I am very proud to be doing so. \p Kemi Badenoch: The Prime Minister does not want to answer a question about taking responsibility, because he likes to blame everyone except himself, and so does the Chancellor. We now know that the head of the Office for Budget Responsibility was forced out for telling the truth: that the Chancellor did not need to raise taxes on working people. We also know that the Chancellor was briefing the media and twisting the facts—all so she could break her promises and raise taxes. If she were a CEO, she would have been fired, and she might even have been prosecuted for market abuse. That is why we have written to the Financial Conduct Authority, so will the Prime Minister ensure the Chancellor fully co-operates with any investigation? \p Keir Starmer: The right hon. Lady is completely losing the plot. May I pay tribute to Richard Hughes for his leadership of the OBR? He made very clear why he stepped down and I have made very clear my support of the OBR. She says, “Take responsibility”. Under this Chancellor: growth is up this year, defeating and beating the forecast; wages are up more since the general election than in 10 years of the Tories; we have had, I think, five interest rate cuts; NHS waiting lists are down; and we have had record investment into this country. We are turning the page on Tory austerity and reckless experiments on borrowing. I will compare our record to theirs any day of the week. \p Kemi Badenoch: The Prime Minister talks about losing the plot. Let me read to him what his own Cabinet Members are saying—that the handling of the Budget has been

“a disaster from start to finish.”

Who said that? Was it him? Was it her? It was probably her, actually—it was probably the Chancellor! [Laughter.] One of the Prime Minister’s Ministers said that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister look “weak and incompetent”. The country agrees.

We know that there were endless Treasury briefings to justify raising taxes on hard-working people to pay for benefits and those briefings had real-world consequences. Hundreds of thousands of people drew down their pension, an irreversible act. The Prime Minister pays tribute to the head of the OBR. If the head of the OBR had to resign over market-sensitive leaks, why is the Chancellor still in her job? \p Keir Starmer: Last year, the Conservatives left us with a £22 billion black hole. This year, at the beginning of the process, the OBR did a productivity review on their record in office, and that cost an additional £16 billion that we had to find in the Budget. But notwithstanding that, we have protected the NHS—waiting times are coming down; notwithstanding that, we have cuts in borrowing at the fastest rate in the G7; notwithstanding that, we have got £150 off energy bills, in addition to rail fare and prescriptions freezes. [Interruption.] \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. Mr Holden, your voice carries more than mine. The difference is that yours will be carrying outside, not in the Chamber. \p Keir Starmer: What the right hon. Lady does not understand is that picking up a £16 billion tab for the Conservatives’ failure is not a good starting point for any Budget. The OBR said yesterday that the Chancellor’s speech was not misleading, so if the Leader of the Opposition had any decency, she would get up now and apologise. [Interruption.] \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. Other Members might be enjoying a cup of tea with Mr Holden if they carry on. \p Kemi Badenoch: No one believes a word the Prime Minister says. We now know the black hole was fake, the Chancellor’s book was fake, her CV was fake—even her chess claims are made up. She does not belong in the Treasury; she belongs in la-la land.

The Government raised taxes on working people—that is £16 billion—to increase benefits to protect them from their Back Benchers. The Prime Minister now boasts about removing the two-child benefit cap, but he used to say that it was unaffordable. He even removed the Whip from seven Labour Members for wanting the same thing. He is very happy to throw them under a bus when it pleases him. I ask the Prime Minister, how did it suddenly become affordable at the very time he needed to save his own skin? \p Keir Starmer: The vast majority of the families we helped in the Budget are in work. Three quarters of children in poverty are in working families. The Conservatives’ policy of nearly 10 years on the two-child  benefit cap had one result and one result only: it dragged hundreds of thousands of children into poverty. They should be utterly ashamed of that. I am very proud that we are lifting half a million children out of poverty, because I believe—I profoundly believe—that every child should have a chance in life; every child should be able to go as far as their talent will take them. That is why we are lifting half a million out of poverty, but they are the same old Tories: the party of child poverty. \p Kemi Badenoch: If all of this is true, why did the Prime Minister take the Whip away from the people asking for it? Let us remind the Chancellor that exactly a year ago today, on 3 December 2024, she said:

“We will never have to repeat a Budget like this one”.—[Official Report, 3 December 2024; Vol. 758, c. 149.]

If only!

The Prime Minister may have taken the Whip away then, but the rebels have had the last laugh—he has lost. He cannot run his own party, let alone the country. Let me quote the hard-left former shadow Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell). He said: “We’ve won.” He is right, isn’t he? \p Keir Starmer: I have said repeatedly that bringing down child poverty is a moral mission, a political mission and a personal mission. The Conservatives drove hundreds of thousands of children into poverty—children who will pay the price for the rest of their lives for the previous Government’s failure. We are taking half a million children out of poverty, and we are very proud to do so. That is good for children, it is good for the economy and it is good for the NHS, which will have less of a burden on it. The Opposition should be ashamed of what they did on child poverty, and the right hon. Lady should stand up and apologise. \p Kemi Badenoch: Let me tell the Prime Minister: making the whole country poorer and destroying jobs is not how to keep children out of poverty. In the past week we have seen broken promises, broken leadership and a broken Budget for “Benefits Street”—[Interruption.] The Education Secretary is chuntering. I ask her, where is the money for the children with special educational needs? Where is it? It is coming out of her budget. \p Bridget Phillipson: indicated dissent. \p Kemi Badenoch: She is shaking her head; she does not know where that money is coming from.

Let us be clear: unemployment is up. There are more children now growing up in workless households because people are losing their jobs. It is not just the head of the OBR who is losing his job; millions of people have been hung out to dry by the Government’s Budget. Is it not the truth that behind it all is a Prime Minister who only cares about one person’s job—his own? \p Keir Starmer: The right hon. Lady wants to put half a million children back into poverty. She thinks the Chancellor should resign because the economy is improving. We are turning the page on her party’s failure. We are bringing waiting lists down. We are  bringing stability that cuts inflation and interest rates, and we are bringing down bills. We are building a brighter future. \p Claire Hanna: Conversations about a new Ireland are deepening, with people from all sorts of backgrounds having serious, hopeful discussions about building something new. Yesterday in Westminster, along with the hon. Member for South Antrim (Robin Swann), who has a different view to me, we hosted two of the island’s most respected journalists, making the case both for and against Irish unity. While both positions were argued, clear voice was that the time for careful preparation is now. Does the Prime Minister agree that, although there is much work to do before any referendum, in order to avoid a mess like Brexit, it is prudent and completely compatible with the Good Friday agreement for the Irish and British Governments to jointly prepare for constitutional change? \p Keir Starmer: One of the greatest achievements of the last Labour Government was the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. We fully support that agreement, which brought peace and stability for Northern Ireland. As the hon. Member well knows, it sets out a process for future decisions, which under the agreement I support. We are focused on working constructively with the Executive and others on all issues, including the record settlement for Northern Ireland under the Budget. \p Lindsay Hoyle: I call the leader of the Liberal Democrats. \p Edward Davey: I join the Leader of the Opposition in paying tribute to Sir John Stanley, and send our condolences to his family. I had the huge pleasure of working with him over a number of years on developing the relationship between our country and Korea, and he was always a true gentleman.

Yesterday, I was in Royal Tunbridge Wells, where tens of thousands of people have had no water for five days. This is now a public health emergency and, shockingly, it is the second time in just three years that South East Water has badly let down the people of Tunbridge Wells. Parents are queuing up for bottled water for their kids; pensioners are relying on neighbours to fetch water for them; businesses have closed down; and schools and GPs have been forced to shut. South East Water said that it would be sorted on Monday, and then again yesterday, but today it has still not been sorted. Will the Prime Minister convene Cobra? Does he agree that it is time for him to get a grip of this crisis so that it is sorted? \p Keir Starmer: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising this really important issue. It is shocking, for all the reasons that he set out. I too have heard South East Water say—Sunday into Monday, Monday into Tuesday, and Tuesday into Wednesday—that it was sorting the situation, and still it has not been sorted. There are really serious consequences. We are bearing down on it, as he would expect, because this is such a serious issue. \p Edward Davey: I am grateful for the Prime Minister’s reply and for the actions of the Water Minister, the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Haltemprice  (Emma Hardy), but I do think the Government will need to do more, because South East Water has failed so badly.

Turning now to the Budget, the Prime Minister’s chief economic adviser has recommended a customs union with the EU as one of the most effective ways of generating growth, and we Liberal Democrats agree. Instead of hitting people with higher taxes in the middle of a cost of living crisis, will the Prime Minister change course in economic policy and listen to the wise economic advice from his own economic adviser? \p Keir Starmer: We are getting closer relationships with the EU on a number of fronts, including trade and the economy, because that is good for businesses across our country, and it has been welcomed by them. We will continue down that path, but we have clear red lines on the single market and the customs union; within those constraints, we will move closer.