debates/debates2025-07-16b conversation_9
Source: hansard.parliament.uk (2025-07-16)

UK Parliament Hansard data: debates/debates2025-07-16b conversation_9

Jacob Collier:If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 16 July. \p Keir Starmer: There has always been support across this House for the United Kingdom fulfilling our obligations to Afghans who served alongside British forces. We warned in opposition about Conservative management of this policy, and yesterday the Defence Secretary set out the full extent of the failings that we inherited: a major data breach, a super-injunction and a secret route that had already cost hundreds of millions of pounds. Ministers who served in the Conservative Government have serious questions to answer about how this was ever allowed to happen. The Chair of the Defence Committee has indicated that he intends to hold further inquiries. I welcome that and I hope that those who were in office at the time will welcome that scrutiny.

President Macron’s state visit last week saw us secure historic agreements: co-ordinating our nuclear deterrents; a major investment in Sizewell C; and a landmark returns deal, which is a crucial next step in restoring order to our immigration system. Tomorrow I will host Chancellor Merz for further talks on our security and the economy. This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today. \p Jacob Collier: Families in Burton and Uttoxeter are watching their smart meters like hawks, and dreading the moment when their energy bill lands on the doormat. I therefore welcome Labour’s warm home discount, which will mean £150 off energy bills for millions of people across this country, providing meaningful support in these difficult times. Will the Prime Minister set out how that will help support families in my constituency and across the country? \p Keir Starmer: I met my hon. Friend’s constituent Nicola in her kitchen, and she told me how hard she is working to support her three children, but that the past decade has let her down, with false promises and public services a wreck. She told me about the difference the warm home discount will make, and that £150 off her energy bills—she had a meter in her kitchen, if I recall, recording how much energy she was using—would make all the difference to her. I promised Nicola and my hon. Friend that there is much more to come. \p Lindsay Hoyle: I call the Leader of the Opposition. \p Kemi Badenoch: Yesterday, the head of the Office for Budget Responsibility warned the Government that higher and higher levels of taxes are bad for growth. Does the Prime Minister agree? \p Keir Starmer: Mr Speaker, I will tell you what is bad for growth: 14 years of a Tory Government. That meant stagnant growth for 14 years, leaving a £22 billion black hole. In the first quarter of this year we have achieved: the highest growth in the G7, which we promised before the election; investment of £120 billion in this country, which is a record in the first year of any Government; and three trade deals, all of which will boost growth. \p Kemi Badenoch: The Prime Minister is talking about what he has achieved, but we have just heard that inflation is up again—the worst in the G7. We left him with 2% inflation. We have borrowing up, unemployment up and taxes up under his Government. The fact is that the Prime Minister does not get it, so let me tell him. His Budget last year had high taxes. That is why the economy is contracting. The Government have said that they will not put up taxes for people on modest incomes, but they also seem incapable of explaining who is in that category, so can the Prime Minister clear up the confusion and tell us what he thinks a modest income is? \p Keir Starmer: I think of the working people across this country who put in every day and do not get back what they deserve. That is who we are working for, and that is who we are fixing the country for. They are the sort of people that work hard but have not necessarily got the savings to buy themselves out of problems. That is who we are working for, and that is why we put the national living wage up, with an extra £1,400. The national minimum wage is up, with an extra £2,500 a year. The triple lock means pensions went up by £470. And of course, we are extending childcare, opening free breakfast clubs and extending free school meals. We know exactly who we are working for. The right hon. Lady comes here every week and just talks the country down. \p Kemi Badenoch: I am not talking of the country down; I am talking the Prime Minister down. I asked him what a modest income was. He answered with what a working person is. He does not know what a modest income is, and they cannot even define who working people are. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury said that working people are people who get a payslip, but millions of self-employed people do not get a payslip, so are the self-employed next in line for a Labour tax raise? \p Keir Starmer: The self-employed were the very people who suffered repeatedly under the Conservatives’ watch, particularly during covid, as I remember, when they did not get the support that they needed. The right hon. Lady talks the country down and she cherry-picks. Since we have been in government, we have created 380,000 jobs, the employment rate is up and inactivity is down—the complete opposite of what we inherited. \p Kemi Badenoch: I do not know where these 3,000 jobs are coming from. Unemployment has gone up every month under his Government. Perhaps the Prime Minister  should speak to farmers and small business people and find out what those working people think about his Government. But that is not all, because we know that the Chancellor is launching a review into pension contributions. It is as clear as day why this is. It is because the Government are considering taxing them. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that a tax on pension contributions is a tax on working people? \p Keir Starmer: We made absolutely clear manifesto commitments, which the right hon. Lady asked me about last week, and we are keeping to them. I am not going to write the Budget months out from the Budget. I am proud of the decisions that we took to invest in our NHS and to invest in our public services—all decisions that the Conservatives opposed. It is no wonder that after the first year of a Labour Government, business confidence is at a nine-year high. That is longer than she has been in government—[Hon. Members: “Withdraw!”] I am not withdrawing that; I am going to repeat it. Business confidence is at a nine-year high. \p Kemi Badenoch: The Prime Minister says that he is not going to write the Budget, but his Chancellor is on the front of the Daily Mirror talking about what she is going to do on taxes, so why can he not do the same in the Chamber? I asked him about pension contributions. The truth is that he does not want to talk about pension contributions. It is all right for the Prime Minister, because he has his own special law to stop his personal pension from being taxed. But let us be honest: this is really about choices. My party knows that there is an alternative to tax rises: cutting spending—something that the Government are too scared, or perhaps too weak, to do. We offered to work with him to reform welfare and make meaningful savings, but his refusal sent a signal and now the cost of borrowing is rising. The Budget is in November, which is months away and the markets may not wait. What will the Prime Minister be doing over the summer to get a grip on the cost of borrowing? \p Keir Starmer: The Conservatives left the most incredible mess in the economy, and now they think that they can lecture others. Just last week their chairman said that they had done the necessary apologising for the 14 years of failure. I did not hear an apology for the lowest living standards in living history. I did not hear an apology for the £22 billion black hole. I did not hear an apology for the Liz Truss mini-Budget. Maybe the right hon. Lady would like to stand up and make that apology now. \p Kemi Badenoch: The Prime Minister is not planning to do anything this summer to fix the economy. The shadow of the last Budget is hanging over the entire country. Just yesterday, only the Conservatives supported the two-child benefit cap, because only the Conservatives believe in living within our means—not Labour, not the Liberal Democrats, not Reform.

But it is the end of term, so why don’t we go through the Prime Minister’s end-of-term scorecard? The economy is contracting, inflation is the highest in the G7, unemployment is up every month under this Government, spending is out of control, borrowing costs are more expensive than in Greece—and this is just the first year. The Labour party should be ashamed of what it is  doing to the country. [Interruption.] Labour Members can shake their heads as much as they like, but the fact is that this summer they will have to go to their constituents and explain why the Government have been making such a mess over the past 12 months. And is it not the case, given that this is just their first year, that the worse is yet to come? \p Keir Starmer: We are happily going to go to our constituents. We will tell them that we promised 2 million extra NHS appointments and have delivered 4 million extra appointments. I have to upgrade that—it is now 4.5 million extra appointments, so we will tell our constituents that. Then we will tell them about the free school meals we are rolling out, the free breakfast clubs, the free childcare, and school uniform costs. We will tell them about that. When we have done that, we will move on to affordable houses and tell them about the £39 billion we are investing. When we are finished with that, we will tell them about the rail and road upgrades across the country, the £120 billion investment and, of course, the three trade deals—and we are only just getting started. \p Colum Eastwood: The Prime Minister will never know exactly how much it meant to victims of the troubles in Northern Ireland, from right across society, when he came, looked them in their eyes and promised them that no murderer would be immune from prosecution. Can he tell us when he last spoke to the Taoiseach about the shared approach to this issue, and will he recommit today to those victims, to ensure that no murderer will be seen to be above the law? \p Keir Starmer: This is a really important issue, and can I begin by saying that I have a profound respect and debt to our veterans who served? This is a complicated issue and we have to get it right. Veterans are at risk because of the false promises of the last Government. Let us be clear: the last Government made a false promise of immunity that does not exist. It was unlawful, it was struck down, and it was undeliverable. Their failed legacy Act leaves veterans exposed with no settled process. We will create a secure, transparent system that protects veterans from unjustified persecution and gives victims, families and survivors the confidence they need in the process. \p Lindsay Hoyle: I call the leader of the Liberal Democrats. \p Edward Davey: May I associate myself with the Prime Minister’s words about the shocking Afghan data breach under the previous Government, which was kept secret for three years? He will have our support if he decides to pursue a public inquiry.

I know that the Prime Minister will agree that the shocking rise of antisemitism that we have seen since Hamas’s 7 October terror attacks has no place in our society. British Jews should not have to live in fear of hatred, racism and abuse on our streets or online. A new report from the Board of Deputies’ commission on antisemitism, chaired by Lord Mann and Dame Penny Mordaunt, has set out 10 recommendations to tackle this appalling scourge. Will the Prime Minister study this report, and will his Government respond to it in full? \p Keir Starmer: Yes, we will. We must fight antisemitism wherever we find it, as we must fight all hate offences, crimes and incidents wherever we find them. \p Edward Davey: I thank the Prime Minister for that reply. I hope that we will see more action to tackle antisemitism.

Turning to the middle east, the world is looking on in horror at the scenes from Gaza, and now Netanyahu’s Ministers want to lock the whole population of Gaza into what is effectively a giant prison—a plan that would clearly amount to ethnic cleansing, as former Israeli Prime Minister Olmert has said. Does the Prime Minister agree that that is utterly abhorrent and unacceptable? Will he make it clear to the Israeli Government that the UK will not stand idly by and will act, starting by sanctioning Prime Minister Netanyahu himself? \p Keir Starmer: I am appalled by the suggestions in relation to Gaza, just as I am appalled by the reports of yet more civilians being killed while trying to access aid. On both fronts, I am appalled by what we are seeing and hearing, and we raise that regularly, as the right hon. Gentleman would expect. In relation to the civilians being killed, I would expect that to be fully and transparently investigated, with full accountability for any failings. Israel must clearly put in place measures that properly protect civilians, in line with international law, and that is the case that we are pressing repeatedly. Alongside that, we want to see an immediate ceasefire, so that the remaining hostages can be brought out, aid can be got in at volume and at speed, and a political process can be opened, which in my view is the only way in which we are going to get a lasting solution.