debates/debates2025-07-02c conversation_5
Source: hansard.parliament.uk (2025-07-02)

UK Parliament Hansard data: debates/debates2025-07-02c conversation_5

Paul Waugh:If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 2 July. \p Keir Starmer: This Saturday—[Interruption.] \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. There seems to be a bit of a challenge over who can cheer the most. I have never known one Prime Minister get as much cheering. [Interruption.] \p Keir Starmer: I think they were cheering more, Mr Speaker, and quite right too! This Saturday marks the 77th birthday of our national health service, and I want to begin by thanking our dedicated NHS staff for their service. In that 77th year, I am proud that this Labour Government have delivered 4 million extra appointments, 1,700 more GPs and the lowest waiting lists for two years. The Labour party is proud to have been the party that created the NHS, and tomorrow we are announcing our 10-year health plan to build an NHS that is fit for the future, so that in many years and decades to come we can still proudly celebrate the anniversary of the NHS.

May I also wish England and Wales the best of luck in the women’s Euros and congratulate England’s under-21s on retaining the Euros?

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today. \p Paul Waugh: When this Labour Government extended free school meals to half a million more children last month, Laura—a working mum in Rochdale—told me it would save her £500 a year. She said:

“I am over the moon. Only Labour would have done this.”

Does the Prime Minister agree that people voted Labour a year ago for not just change, but hope, and that cutting child poverty is the moral mission of this Government in order to help every child in this country? \p Keir Starmer: I am really proud that we extended free school meals for another half a million children, including Laura’s. It is people like Laura and giving children the best start in life that we have in our mind’s eye. I think the child poverty taskforce visited Rochdale recently and will continue to back parents like Laura. We have already started rolling out not just free school meals, but free breakfast clubs, and extending childcare. That is real change under this Labour Government. \p Lindsay Hoyle: I call the Leader of the Opposition. \p Kemi Badenoch: First of all, can I take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. Member for Rochdale (Paul Waugh) on being the toady of the week, helping the Prime Minister? [Interruption.] \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. There are a load of people wanting to catch my eye today. There are some free hits on the Government Benches—hon. Members should not waste their opportunity. \p Kemi Badenoch: It has been a difficult week for the Prime Minister, so let us start with something simple. Can he tell the House how much his welfare Bill is going to save? \p Keir Starmer: Let me start by saying that free school meals matter on this side of the House. In relation to welfare, what we delivered last night was a Bill that ends mandatory reassessment of those with severe disabilities. That is the right thing to do. It rebalances universal credit—that is long overdue—and it sets out a pathway to reform of the personal independence payment. It is consistent with the principles I set out  throughout: if you can work, you should work; if you need help into work, the state should provide that help—the system that the Conservatives broke does not do so; and if you cannot work—[Interruption.] \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. There are one or two Members who I can spot immediately: the usual voices, the same names. Please—it is too early to leave the Chamber. \p Keir Starmer: If you cannot work, you must be supported and protected. The reformed welfare system that we are putting in place will be better for individuals, better for the taxpayer and better for the economy. \p Kemi Badenoch: I do not think the Prime Minister actually watched what happened in the House yesterday—his Bill was completely gutted. There was a U-turn in the middle of the debate, removing clause 5. Where on earth was he? He cannot answer the question because he knows his Bill does not save any money; it is going to cost millions. This is the first Prime Minister in history to propose a Bill to save money who ended up with a Bill that costs money. If the Bill does not cut welfare spending, can the Prime Minister tell the House how many people it will get into work? \p Keir Starmer: I am glad that the Leader of the Opposition has asked that, because it gives me the opportunity to say that we have already started changing the jobcentres and investing in support back into work. The Trailblazer scheme is doing exactly what she asked me: getting people back into work. Last night’s Bill will help people back into work, and of course the Timms review is ongoing, but I will tell the House what will not help people back into work and what will not help control the costs: voting to keep the broken system, and that is what the Conservatives did last night. Everybody in this House accepts that the current system is broken. It invites the question, “Who broke it?” The Conservatives broke it, and last night they voted for the status quo. The broken system is their policy. That will not help individuals, it will not help the taxpayer and it certainly will not help the economy. \p Kemi Badenoch: I will tell the Prime Minister what we did on welfare. [Interruption.] Why are Labour Members laughing? They do not know. My party delivered the biggest reform of welfare in government. We got record numbers of people into work, including millions of disabled people, and we cut the deficit every year until covid. The fact is that we are not scared of doing difficult things. We got people back into work. What the Prime Minister forgets is that since the election—since he became Prime Minister—an additional 1,000 people a day are signing on to incapacity benefit. That is 50% more than under us.

Astonishingly, because of the mess that the Government made yesterday—because there are no more savings—sickness benefits alone are set to rise to £100 billion on the Prime Minister’s watch. He cannot reduce that now—[Interruption.] \p Lindsay Hoyle: Order. Mr McKee, I think we have had a run-in before. I certainly do not want any more. Seriously—you are obviously not getting your timing right, because I can hear your voice every time. \p Kemi Badenoch: I will start again, Mr Speaker. [Interruption.] Yes, and louder for those at the back: sickness benefits are set to rise to £100 billion because of the Government’s mess. They cannot now reduce that, because after last night’s humiliating U-turn, we know that the Prime Minister cannot control his MPs. They are cheering now, but I can point out Labour Members who signed the amendment: you did, and you did. Over 100 people signed that reasoned amendment until the Bill was completely gutted. The Prime Minister said that he would take the difficult decisions, but is the reality not that he is too weak to get anything done? \p Keir Starmer: I will tell the right hon. Lady what the Conservatives did to the welfare system—they broke it. It is the same with the NHS. What did they do? They broke it. It is the same with the economy. What did they do? They broke it. They broke everything that they touched. Now she describes the broken system that we are trying to fix. What did she do? She voted against fixing the system. I will spell it out: they voted last night for the system that is keeping 1 million young people not learning or earning. That is a disgrace. They voted for a system where we have 3 million people out of work on ill health. They voted for that system; we are fixing it. We are clearing up the mess that they left, just like we are clearing up the NHS and the economy. \p Kemi Badenoch: The Prime Minister has got some brass neck. Has he read the papers this morning? That Bill will achieve nothing. It is a pointless waste of time, and it is absolute proof that he does not have a plan. Let me tell the House what is going to happen: in November, the Chancellor is going to put up our taxes to pay for the Prime Minister’s incompetence. We on the Opposition Benches know that you cannot tax your way to growth—[Interruption.] These are the same Members who cheered when they talked about the national insurance rise—the jobs tax; why are they complaining now? People out there are frightened. Can the Prime Minister reassure them by ruling out tax rises in the autumn Budget? \p Keir Starmer: The right hon. Lady knows that no Prime Minister or Chancellor ever stands at the Dispatch Box and writes future Budgets. That is not what the Conservatives did and it is not what we are doing, and she knows it. She talks about growth, but for 14 years we had stagnation, and that is what caused the problems. I am really pleased to show the progress that we are making, and I can update the House. Last week, Amazon put £40 billion of investment into this country—one of the biggest investments of its type. That brought inward investment to £120 billion in the first year of this Labour Government. I can also tell the House that business confidence is the highest for nine years. That is longer than the whole time that the Leader of the Opposition has been in Parliament. Figures this week have also demonstrated and shown that we had the fastest growth in the G7 in the first quarter of this year. What a difference from the mess the Conservatives made. That is the difference that a Labour Government make. \p Kemi Badenoch: The Prime Minister talks about jobs. Unemployment has risen every month since Labour took office. Has he spoken to Nissan, by the way, and looked at what is happening there? This man has forgotten  that his welfare Bill was there to plug a black hole created by the Chancellor. Instead, they are creating new ones. [Interruption.] The Chancellor is pointing at me, but she looks absolutely miserable. [Interruption.] They can point as much as they like, but the fact is that Labour MPs are going on the record saying that the Chancellor is toast. The reality is that she is a human shield for the Prime Minister’s incompetence. In January, he said that she would be in post until the next election. Will she really? \p Keir Starmer: Well, the right hon. Lady certainly won’t. I have to say that I am always cheered up when she asks me questions or responds to a statement, because she always makes a complete mess of it and shows just how unserious and irrelevant the Conservatives are.

The right hon. Lady talks about the black hole, but they left a £22 billion black hole in our economy, and we are clearing it up. I am really proud that in the first year of a Labour Government, we have got free school meals, breakfast clubs, childcare, and £15 billion invested in transport in the north and the midlands. With planning regulation, planning and infrastructure is pounding forward. We are building 1.5 million homes and have the biggest investment in social and affordable housing. We also have the three trade deals—remember, those are the ones that the Conservatives could not get—including the US trade deal. On Monday, those tariffs came down. That secured the jobs at Jaguar Land Rover. That is who we care about on the Government Benches. \p Kemi Badenoch: How awful for the Chancellor that the Prime Minister could not confirm that she would stay in place. He talks about his year in office. This week marks the first anniversary of Labour coming into office. [Interruption.] Yeah, yeah, let’s have it. The Whips cannot get their MPs in the Lobby, but they can get them to cheer at the right time.

The fact is that the Prime Minister’s own MPs are saying that this Government are “incoherent and shambolic”—it was the hon. Member for Liverpool Wavertree (Paula Barker) who said that. I could go on and on, but the fact is that it has been mistake after mistake after mistake. There is no plan to get people into work, there is no plan to cut the welfare budget, and there is no strategy; there is just a series of humiliating U-turns, as with winter fuel and as with grooming gangs.

What is really shocking is the fact that every other party in the House voted for even more welfare spending yesterday—yes, those MPs behind the Prime Minister, and the Liberal Democrats, and Reform. The Conservative party believes that this country needs to live within its means. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] We know what we believe, but this is a Prime Minister who has U-turned on everything he has done in office, including his own speeches, because he does not know what he believes. With left-wing Labour MPs now running the Government, is it not working people who will now pay the price? \p Keir Starmer: This is why the Leader of the Opposition always cheers me up. She talks about living within our means, having left a £22 billion black hole. She talks about our first year. I am really proud of our first year in government. We promised 2 million extra  NHS appointments, and we delivered 4 million—a promise made and a promise delivered. We promised the biggest upgrade to workers’ rights in a generation within the first 100 days—a promise made and a promise delivered. We promised free breakfast clubs—a promise made and a promise delivered. On banning bonuses for water bosses who pollute our rivers, which is a mess the Conservatives left—a promise made and a promise delivered. Creating GB Energy—a promise made and a promise delivered. The largest increase in defence spending since the last Labour Government—a promise made and a promise delivered. Putting more money in the pockets of working people, particularly the 3 million who are the lowest paid, through the national minimum wage—a promise made and a promise delivered. We are only getting started. The Chancellor has led on all these issues, and we are grateful to her for it.