Interview with coding bootcamp graduates.
Published: 2023-05-17 04:34:48

Interview #1: Chris Sean Interviews Paula (Bootcamp Graduate)
Puala
Chris: [00:00:00] Paula, it is really nice to, uh, it's really nice to meet with you. It's really nice to just talk to someone who actually attended a coding boot camp, to be honest. Right. I, I've been doing these kind of videos for about seven years now, and so I've met with a lot of people who went to coding boot camps who have negative experience, positive experience.
Chris: And so what's interesting though we'll be talking to you is that you actually got a job through quoting bootcamp. Is that correct? 
Paula: Uh, yeah. After my, my bootcamp six months with, after my graduation, 
Chris: yes. Okay. That is pretty impressive. So, okay. For people who don't know you, right, what is the, what is it?
Chris: What is it that you do now? What is it that you do now in tech? What's your job? 
Paula: So right now my title is data analyst. 
Chris: I do have a few questions. Then, knowing that you got a job through bootcamp, which is encouraging because actually I know quite a few people who didn't. Right. And so for someone who went to your bootcamp before, before you went to your bootcamp, what did you expect from it?
Chris: Like, what were you expecting before you even 
Paula: attended? I [00:01:00] think I had high expectations. I, I expected to be ready. Right. I expected that once I was done with the bootcamp, I'll know everything I needed to get a job. And not that I, that I. Upset or upset about the results. It's just that I, I had to change my mindset during the bootcamp to understand that that was, Tired of my path.
Paula: Mm-hmm. And not the whole thing. Yeah. I like 
Chris: to think of the, another emotions, the anxiety you probably felt before, like j I mean, for example, before I'm an attack, I'm self-taught, but ironically the one coding bootcamp I wanted to go to was Coding Dojo. But I didn't have the money. I didn't have the credit cause I was living paycheck to paycheck.
Chris: Excel. I was, my, my credit score was terrible. Uh, and I couldn't attend. Right. But at the same time, I really wanted to go to, To that bootcamp. So like what, what were your emotions before joining? Like were you nervous and what were you, what like were you thinking it's too expensive because it is pretty expensive?
Chris: Right. I 
Paula: think I was a, a good student in terms of, I did my research, I [00:02:00] watched tons of YouTube videos. I talked to people and I was trying to understand what would be the best for me. And I think in that sense, uh, I, I, I don't think I was. Nervous or anything. It's just, uh, I knew that the bootcamp would give me the structure that I needed because I mean, I'm, I cannot be, I'm not a person that can teach because I, I don't have that structure.
Paula: I don't have that discipline. I just jumped from here to there and, uh, uh, so I was just excited that someone was going to tell me what to do, and I think that that was like, The best part of it. There was someone there every day checking on what I, I was doing, how I was doing, and what I have to do next.
Paula: And uh, I was excited for that. I needed that. 
Chris: So then why did you go to bootcamp? Was it mainly because of that you needed that [00:03:00] accountability? You needed someone to really push you. If you go 
Paula: online or if you go like on LinkedIn or if you go on YouTube, I know, and you start reading what people say that what you need to become a data analyst or data scientist, you, you can go crazy.
Paula: Like there's so much stuff out there and people say, this is better. That is better. You should learn this first. You should learn that first. And so some of my friends that, I had two friends that went to boot camps and they were like, that's why you should go to a boot camp, because they are going to put that into a curriculum.
Paula: They are going to put that in a order that makes sense. And you're gonna learn, you're gonna, you know, building blocks, you're gonna learn in the order that you should, or that at least is gonna be easier for you. So I think that was my point. I needed someone to help me figure out what I, where to start.
Chris: Yeah. I, I guess [00:04:00] another thing you're trying to get at is focus learning, right? When, I mean, I'm still learning, but when I didn't have a job, when I was teaching myself online reading books, you name it, I think my biggest problem was I just tried to learn everything. Right. And there was no one really guiding exactly what to learn first, what to learn next, which is why I do my channel to help people now.
Chris: And so then, now, now you went to the boating bootcamp. How hard was it? What, what, what, what, what course did you take? Was it the part-time bootcamp? Was it full? Oh, that smile right there that shows everything. Was it, did you take the part-time bootcamp? Was it full-time? Were 
Paula: you working at the same time?
Paula: Time? I did a part, yeah, I did a part-time. So, uh, just a tiny bit of background. I wanted to change careers. I mean, somehow mm-hmm. At that. Mm-hmm. At some point I didn't really know what I wanted to do, so I even thought about going back to school and getting my teaching credential mm-hmm. And become like a science teacher.
Paula: But that would, uh, I would need to leave my job [00:05:00] and I, I could not leave my job to do that. Is that because you 
Chris: have a family too? So, I'm sorry. Do you have a family? Is that why you couldn't leave your 
Paula: job? Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I, I have, uh, is my husband and I, we are paying mortgage, so I couldn't like just tell him, Hey, take care of everything and now I'm gonna Good luck.
Paula: Yeah, good luck. So I had to find something that I could do while working and so I took the part-time and I really, yeah, it was hard, but I really appreciate that at the very beginning of the bootcamp before. Even before we started, uh, coding though, Joe came with like this messages and emails and a kind of a sketch of a plan where you need to realize, you know, really prepare.
Paula: Like, Hey, I'm going to just devote this amount of hours per day. This is how much of my weekend I'm gonna put into this. Who is gonna take care of the food? Who is gonna take care of the house? Who is gonna, [00:06:00] you know, because it is, it is, uh, When you get there, you kind of like, uh, come on. But now, once you start, you're like, yeah, I actually need that plan, because that was the deal at home.
Paula: Like I told my husband, Hey, I, I'm doing this, but for us, and I need you to kind of take over some things because otherwise I won't be able to go through this. So it was harder, was overwhelming, but uh, but I mean, it's, if you want to finish in that amount of time, that's what it takes, right? 
Chris: Yeah, definitely.
Chris: I mean, The the amount of focus that you had to do and so I'm Kirsten like working at the same time doing Coding Bootcamp at Coding Dojo at the same time. How many hours a day would you say you have to put into it? Or let's, yeah, let's, yeah. An average per week probably, yeah, it's part-time, but really how many hours did you have to put into really keep up with the program?
Chris: You know, after 
Paula: hours? Yeah. I think Monday to Friday I was putting at least two and a half [00:07:00] hours every day. A weekend 
Chris: after a 
Paula: shift of work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then on the weekends I would put another, at least four hours each day, so eight hours of my weekend if I didn't have a test or, or something.
Paula: Because there were weekends where we had like a. Test to be done by the end of the weekend and mm-hmm Then I would put at least 10, 12 hours just to finish whatever I had to finish. 
Chris: Thinking about that then do you think just anyone can do bootcamp then? Like does it need to be a particular kind of person that goes to, uh, that goes through it, right?
Chris: Like for example, you went to Coding Dojo, like what kind of person can go through that? I'll tell you this. I can't do school. Right. Uh, um, I dropped out of I think three or not four different colleges for a reason because I just never did my homework. Right. I'm gonna fail. I don't care. Uh, I can't do it, but so like what I, I mean, okay.
Chris: Maybe not me, so, but other than me, like what kind of person do you [00:08:00] think, or what kind of mindset do you think a person needs to have if they really go through with it? Because it's not easy from what you shared. They 
Paula: say that at the beginning and people say around, if you go on Reddit or. It's khaki.
Paula: It's cheesy, but it is too. You get what you put in. So if you are thinking that you're just gonna sign up and things are gonna just happen. Yeah. That's not how I work. And yeah. So you need to have that mindset that, yeah. Uh, if I don't dedicate the time, if I don't put in the hours, if I don't do the homework, uh, because I guess you could get by just doing the minimum, you know, uh, sounds like me, but I mean, you pick Yeah, but I, yes, but that's what you're gonna get at the end too.
Paula: You know you're gonna end. Mm-hmm. Because I mean, I, I think I was. Very dedicated. I, I, I did everything they asked me to do, and I will [00:09:00] try to redo. And, uh, and even that, if I go back now and try to do some of the things I learned, I, I probably need a refresh. Mm-hmm. You know, so if you don't actually do the work and repeatedly, you know, do the homework and.
Paula: Then two weeks later, you're gonna have just put your money on the trash. So you need to vet your money, vet your time, and if you want the results you need to. To put the work 
Chris: and, and, and I'm assuming you did the remote class, right? Since it's part-time? Um, yeah, I think only remote. I'm not too sure, but, um, mine was fully remote.
Chris: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Fully remote. And so then you looking through Zoom, right? I joined a remote class. Was it yesterday? Yesterday. And you know, you see people in the class, right? Did you see people no longer by the time you finished the last class of your bootcamp, do you see some people no longer there? Some people give up, yes.
Chris: You did? Yes. I'm curious how many, like, let's 
Paula: just. I actually had a count of it. I think we You had a count day. Yeah. [00:10:00] Yeah. Cause uh, we had people coming from the, you know, the, the, like they were hold held back. Right? Yeah. So people, so added people from the, another cohort mm-hmm. That they didn't pass. And we had people from our cohort that stayed behind.
Paula: Yeah. Or dropped out. I dunno what happened to them. Uh, but I remember that out of the 25 that it started, I think, I'm not, you know, a hundred percent sure the numbers, but if I remember, yeah, I guesstimate it's fine. At the end, only 15 were like the same. 10 dropped out and 10 dropped out. There were new people, uh, or held back, I dunno.
Paula: Yeah. Um, and new people, uh, came in. Uh, so from a different cohort? Yeah, because we had like four modules. So every module some people were staying behind or 
Chris: dropping out. I, I mean, and the reason I ask is because it's not easy. I'd probably, if I did go to coding bootcamp, I [00:11:00] probably would've been one of those people because I just don't do all of homework.
Chris: I neither really push myself. Right. Um, motivate my own self, um, you know, I've heard from people, right? People have said there are some negative things about Coding Dojo. I'm not sure if you heard of anything of that before signing up or you have. And so hearing all those things are those things like what have you, is there anything that you heard that wasn't true and et cetera?
Chris: And, and cuz I just wanna make it as transparent as possible right? If people are gonna sign up for 
Paula: Coding Dojo. Yeah. I think the only thing I heard, uh, and I can't compare to any other bootcamp cuz I mm-hmm. Didn't take other bootcamp. Yeah. Uh, was, uh, Some boot camps, they have a very restrict entering, uh, process.
Chris: Like prerequisites. You have to know. Let's say, um, for your example, it would probably be sql. You have to know SQL ball. Yeah. I don't, I don't think you to know Python for analysts. 
Paula: Yeah, the analysts. Okay. So some, some, so some bootcamps will do that. Like, and it's very hard. There was a bootcamp that I [00:12:00] thought about it and I was just scared of the taking the test cuz it sounded like a very like, um, Holding Dojo.
Paula: The only thing I heard before was that, that they, their, uh, selection for, you know, to start was not as vigorous. And that sometimes would make your cohort have, have people in your cohort that would be just behind and would kind of like make the whole process a little longer. Slower. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I, I noticed some people in my cohort that I was like, I don't think you took the test or if you did like, yeah, I don't know how you made it, you know?
Chris: Yeah. They probably chat g p T to help you with the test.
Paula: Yeah. Something like that. So I was like, uh, and I mean something, I, I mined my own business. I did what, you know, I had to do. But I can see some people being [00:13:00] annoyed by that because, you know, sometimes you, the teachers explain, explaining something super important or you know, and then you have these people like, oh, I'm sorry, can you go over that again?
Paula: And you're like, really? Like, she just explained this and Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I guess you can find that anyway. Yeah. 
Chris: I mean, everyone has different ways that they learn. Some people are slower than others. Right. Um, I, for myself personally, um, I have dyslexia. Right. I, and, um, uh, uh, I was in special ed. I rode, I rode a short yellow bus, right?
Chris: I was one of those kids. I'm a proud special ed student, right? Um, and so for me personally, uh, I, I didn't realize I had dyslexia until last year, and which makes sense because I remember for the longest time when I look at documentation, um, it would drive me crazy because I can't, it was so hard for me to understand what I read after, read it over and over again.
Chris: Now that I know I have it, now I know how to. Fight it. And actually I'm much better now. Unfortunately, only six years after I got sick. I'm in my seven year now. Right. Unfortunately. So that was really difficult for me. Now, [00:14:00] um, what are your cons? I'm curious then, right? What are some cons to going kuda, kobu 
Paula: camp?
Paula: I think the, well, it's a lot of money, right? So how much should you pay for your trip of school? I think it was, 8,585. 
Chris: Oh, I thought it was $16,000. Okay, so 8,500. Did you get like a discount or anything? 
Paula: I got, uh, 1000. Okay. Uh, 1000. Uh, nice discount for, for being a female in writing and they say about females in the field.
Paula: Uh, okay. But what I would say, yeah, it's the money. Right. So I guess that would be, that's the biggest cost. The money. It's expensive. Cause if you can't, yeah. If you can't. Teach yourself, then go for it. You know, find some, some sort of structure or if you have a friend, I don't know. Mm-hmm. I think there are ways to, to, uh, so I would say that is a big con and I think sometimes you can fool yourself.
Paula: Like I said, I, I expected that once I [00:15:00] was done, I would be, Hundred percent ready. So, okay, this is the 8,500 that I'm investing and I'll be a data scientist. Yeah. And you're gonna learn pretty quick that that's not crazy. You, you need to keep investing on your education, 
Chris: not just during coding, not just during the bootcamp.
Chris: After bootcamp. 
Paula: Yeah. I didn't do a, a bootcamp after what I did was, uh, I did some, you know, Udemy, Udacity, Coursera. Uh, some of those, their platforms by myself just to learn different tools or to get a little deeper into some of the tools that I learned during the bootcamp. So I think the, the cause is, uh, the shock once you're done with it and you're like, oh my God, I don't know anything yet.
Paula: It had a lot still to learn. So you felt 
Chris: that even after, right after coding bootcamp, man, you, is that, is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. And, and I'm glad you mentioned [00:16:00] that. Sorry, my dog. I'm not sure if you can see him. He, yeah, I can, he's very needy because I, I have family actually who went to college, they got their computer science degree and they still can't get a job.
Chris: And, and I know why, because they only depended on what they learned. They only depended on what they learned in college to get them the job. No way. And I, and would you agree? It's the same thing with, um, with the bootcamp where it's not just taking in and learning only depending on what you learn to bootcamp, but you have to put in more effort after to learn more.
Chris: Totally. And even when you're done to Kony Bootcamp, and, and I can say as well as, uh, someone who works in tech, right? I'm working in a data engineering field. I was a JavaScript developer first. The amount of learning how to do in the beginning of when I got my, this job a year and a half ago to learn Python, to learn what a data warehouse is, and you know what those are now, data lake.
Chris: Um, what is, um, you know, working with these tools that turn data into grass and et cetera. I'm like, what is all this? Learn, what is SQL Have to learn? Sequel, I have to learn post, [00:17:00] scratch, you name it. Right? And so learning all these different skills, and I'm that, that's already six years in in my career. I had to start learning all that.
Chris: You never stop learning, but the moment you really do stop investing in yourself, um, would you agree that then your, your career, your future in this career is not as like, secure or you just loses value eventually in the future? 
Paula: Yeah, totally. I, and the, what you mention about college is like, like I went to college for chemistry and yeah, I, I, after four years I was like, I don't know anything, you know?
Paula: And with the bootcamp, it was the same feeling like I got out and I was like, I know a lot of things. But I'm far from knowing everything I need. Yes. To get a job very far 
Chris: from it, even now. 
Paula: Yeah, totally. I, I just got this job and. Like I said, they are like, oh, we don't use Tableau. That, that's what we had a little bit during Tableau, the camp.
Paula: Mm-hmm. We don't use Python for visualization. We use Power bi. I was like, okay, so now I'm gonna learn Power bi or, or is that 
Chris: Melane Meta? Metadatabase Metadatabase, 
Paula: right? [00:18:00] Yeah. It's for, uh, they use Power BI as a for report and data visualization. So I, I was like, okay, then I'll, I'll learn that. Yeah. So I mean, you're gonna be learning and I think.
Paula: For every job is gonna be like that. No matter where I start, it's gonna be something new that I'll have to learn just to adjust for that. Oh 
Chris: yeah. 100% for every job. I mean, everything you know now is not gonna be relevant at the next job you might have to learn a new technology. Right. And so, and you said, so you said it took you six months, by the way, the fact you got a job even in six months.
Chris: Congratulations. That's impressive. Thank you. Because I know people who went to boot camp and couldn't, couldn't get a job at all. Right. Um, for those people who couldn't get a job, would you say it's mainly because they didn't put enough effort, right? Mm-hmm. What do you mean? Okay, so people put a lot of effort and still can't get a job, but like, You know, what, what is it that helped you get a job in as low as six 
Paula: months?
Paula: I think, uh, for me, so they have a career service as at, at [00:19:00] coding ojo, and I appreciate them. Uh, But I had two people from the field that gave me two very nice advice and I'll share here with you now. Yeah. One I applied for this pharmaceutical cuz I thought, you know, they didn't data on the list. I'm from the, the field.
Paula: Mm-hmm. Pharmacy in, uh, chemistry. I emailed her, she posted like a LinkedIn, Hey, I'm looking for blah, blah, blah. And I said, Hey, I'm interested. And then she saw my profile, she text me back, she said, Hey, you are not a candidate. But I'm willing to talk to you. And I was like, oh, that's 
Chris: awesome. Wait, you know, let's wait.
Chris: Hold on. A recruit, wait, a, a hiring manager or a recruiter said that to you? Yeah. 
Paula: Was this on LinkedIn? Yeah. Yeah. So it was a, on a, it, it's called Women and Data Science. Okay, nice. Nice. And she posted there and she, you know, she, she said, she said that You are not a candidate, but I, I wanna talk to you. And I say, yeah, that would be so helpful.
Paula: So, because when I said I'm interested, I said, Hey, I'm interested and if I'm not a [00:20:00] candidate, I would love to talk about your processing. Right. So she did that and then she said, I'm going to be honest with you because I, at that time, I was doing a w s course cuz everyone was talking about a w s. So I was like, okay, let me do that.
Paula: And she was like, you know, I, I don't wanna be me but you, I think you're wasting your time doing AWS because you don't even, I was just about to experience. Yeah. You don't even have experience with the basic stuff, you know? Yeah. Nobody's gonna hire you to be a AWS engineer if you don't have nothing on your background.
Paula: And she said, go back, do some Google analytics on Coursera. Do some like the basic. And she said, and apply for data analyst job, not data scientists. You're not gonna learn. Oh, so you took 
Chris: the data scientists, um, course at clinical 
Paula: job. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I did the data scientist and she was like, this is, I don't think you're going to, you're gonna spend a lot of effort trying to get a job as a data [00:21:00] scientist.
Paula: And I think you should try data analysts. Mm. I said they're not the same thing, but that's how recruiters see it. They see it, but they didn't, this being this first step. So that was the first, uh, change of mine that I have to take. And then, uh, and then the second guy told me, Hey, you should start applying for small companies around you.
Paula: Mm-hmm. Stop applying like a hundred times a day to this big tax. You know, they're not gonna get you. Uh, I said to say, maybe you're lucky and someone will see you and get 
Chris: you. I only one person who did that, only one person, and that same job, started paying $400,000 a year, maybe three years down the line.
Chris: That's only happened to one person. I know. 
Paula: Yeah. Like winning the lottery. So he was like, look for small companies around you, you know, uh, apply very specifically, like change your curriculum as you apply for the small companies. See what they want. [00:22:00] Maybe email or the hr, say something. Say that you live close by, that you can swing by if they want to, to talk to you like.
Paula: Not officially. It 
Chris: makes so much sense going for a data analyst role despite having more technical skills as a data scientist, right? Or let's say data engineer, you name it, uh, it makes more sense. Gain that first step into the field, right? And then who says you can't go into data engineering after that?
Chris: Or data scientists, right? Who says you can't. Now you have that professional experience in tech. So that, that was very smart and, and that, that makes total sense. I'm so happy that you got that advice. What was your job first and what was your life like before getting a tech 
Paula: then? I was also helping with, you know, sales, uh, customers.
Paula: We, I was doing more like the E-com so more like Google Analytics and that kind of, that kind of data. And how was 
Chris: life like? Was it pretty hard living, like struggling right. Um, before getting to your first job as data analyst? Well, I 
Paula: live in California. I think it's hard to say that we struggled 
Chris: here. You look like you live in [00:23:00] Orange County.
Chris: Is that Orange County? 
Paula: It, uh, after Orange County's Ventura County is the next one. Okay. Okay. 
Chris: Okay. Hey, I was close enough. Yeah. Nice, nice. I I I used to in Orange County. And so like, if, if you don't mind, like what were you making, you don't have to share what you're making now, but what were you making before tech?
Chris: Your last job before being a data analyst? 
Paula: I was so it, I was making 65. Uh, wow. 
Chris: That's amazing, first of all. Okay. Okay. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. That just blew my mind. Well, 
Paula: here, here, and I say that, but I mean, I'm, I'm 36. I came here, I was 28. I, I mean, I didn't start with 65. I think I start with 40 and then I got to 65.
Paula: Yeah. Okay. And then I got, and then this year it was funny, I, I, I asked for a raise and I got to 70. Mm-hmm. And then I found my new job as a data analyst and does that pay much better? And I actually got, Oh, sorry. No, I actually got a pay cut, 
Chris: which that's Which is totally fine though, right? Because Yeah, totally.
Chris: I see it a lot because the analysts I know now make [00:24:00] like around 130, 140 K a year, and then you use industry as transition to a more technical field, like data scientist, data j, name it. Right? And that might take a year or two, if not a little longer, because it's so worth it though. 
Paula: No, I was gonna say, I, I, it was the, the, the best pay cut I could ever get because I know it's gonna leave me somewhere, you know?
Paula: That is gonna make me, three years from now, I'll be laughing at it. Can I 
Chris: ask you one last question, or do you have to go now? No, I'm fine. 
Paula: Okay. Okay, cool, cool. 
Chris: Yeah. Looking back then, right, and this is a very important question. Was it worth it when you look at it going through coding bootcamp? Right. Going through that, uh, how do you feel about that now when you look back at your situation?
Paula: I feel like I, my only regret is now I have done it earlier. Ooh. Oh, wish I had, yeah. I, I, I wish I had done this four or five years ago. Would it have been Coding 
Chris: Dojo again? 
Paula: Probably. I mean, I interview. With four boot camps. I called them and I made me, I had, yeah, I, I really tried to know what I was putting my money, [00:25:00] so I talked to four 
Chris: boot camps.
Chris: That's why you made good money. You're so smart. Oh my gosh. I like that. 
Paula: And they were very nice at, you know, meeting with me over, uh, the phone or Zoom or whatever and answering me all my questions. And that's why I picked them because, you know, I, and I compare other things too, but, um, Yeah, I, I mean, if I had the same.
Paula: Four interviews back then probably would be. Yeah, I think it was, I would say it would be them. 
Chris: I'm so happy for you. Um, this is exciting. Oh, I love these, doing these interviews. Okay, cool. Is there anything else you wanna share with anyone who listens to this in the future and et cetera? Right. Um, the only snippets of this will be in, in the video, but anything you wanna share in particular?
Paula: No, I think just repeating the, you know, your work's not done. Once you're done with your bootcamp, just keep it, you know, you have to, keeping up to dating and looking for the tools you. You believe you're not strong enough. Mm-hmm. And I mean, nothing wrong with [00:26:00] shooting for the stars, but maybe shoot around, you know, some, a little shoot for the moon around 
Chris: you too.
Chris: Shoot for the moon. Keep for the moon, right? Yeah. Uh, if not, just the atmosphere a little lower, so. No, I agree. I agree. I understand. Okay. Awesome. Paula. Um, if, do you want anyone to follow you anywhere in socials? Is there anywhere if anyone wants to message you about questions or anything and that they can contact you?
Chris: If not all good. Let's put this part out. 
Paula: Yeah. No, it's, uh, I actually, I have me now. I'm gonna be your competition now. Just joking. Okay. Oh,
Paula: I have recorded a few videos about this journey. I just need to edit them and put them out on, uh, on YouTube. So, yeah, I don't know. They, it should be up there at, at some point. Yes, do it. You know 
Chris: what, just email it to me and I'll make sure I put the link description so people can check you out too.
Chris: Awesome. It'll 
Paula: be 
Chris: great. Yeah. Cool. Perfect. All right, Paula, well, I'll let you get back to work or eat your lunch first. So seriously, thank you so much for being on air.


Interview #2: Chris Sean Interviews Mandy (Bootcamp Graduate)

Mandy Full Edit
Chris: [00:00:00] Everyone, welcome to another podcast. In this episode, I have Mandy Sack. Wait, by the way, Mandy Sack, your name sounds so cool. Yeah, thank you. It, it really does. Mandy Sax. Oh, you picked it yourself. Okay. That's an impressive, no, 
Mandy: I'm just kidding. Mandy. Mandy is a nickname. It's not my legal name. So the first part, I didn't actually pick myself, but, 
Chris: so for everyone who doesn't know this is Mandy.
Chris: And what's really interesting about Mandy is that Mandy went to a coding bootcamp, right? And you graduated from that bootcamp. And now you work in tech. And so this is really interesting and in this particular interview, I really wanna dive into your life before bootcamp, right? Mm-hmm. Now you're in it and then you work in tech, how your life has changed because everyone wants to go through that journey.
Chris: Everyone who wants to go in tech, most of the people I know aren't having that great of a life. And what I mean by that, you know, they're kind of struggling financially or they're not, but the living, they wanna do better in life, right? And so I do know you work in tech now. I do know that you went to a coding bootcamp, right?
Chris: In particular Coding Dojo. [00:01:00] Mm-hmm. But before we even dive into the coding bootcamp, how was your life before that? 
Mandy: Yeah, so before this I had an entire other career. Um, I graduated from college with not even a tech, it was technically stem, but I graduated from college with a bachelor in a major event no one else has.
Mandy: It was very special to my college, but essentially my major was doing M R I and nuclear medicine. So not even, I mean, we use computers, but. Nuclear medicine. Yes. So like, um, that's legal. Yeah. Yeah. So PET scans, have you heard of PET scans before? Uh, 
Chris: no, but I guess I will. No PET scans. 
Mandy: So it's, uh, I won't, I won't go too much into detail, but nuclear medicine is basically using, um, medicine that have nuclear, like radioactive elements to it, but it's actually very safe and they're used a lot for a lot of, um, kind of testing for.
Mandy: Cancer patients or even, even like heart, [00:02:00] like heart function, it does a lot of function versus, you know, MRI X-rays and CT scans are gonna be more just like your body, your anatomy, kind of looking at that way. Yeah. And, uh, a whole career. Does that paywall, like, 
Chris: I'm curious, right? Like, 
Mandy: Um, there's a cap. I will say that I'm making more right now in an entry level position than I probably would've, like, I wouldn't have made this amount until probably another three years from now if I was still in the same career.
Mandy: And I've been here for over a year now. Man, if I, I mean, money isn't everything as we know. Work-life balance, it's helpful, is super important. It's definitely helpful. But I find that what's very important is non-monetary things, such as work-life balance. Yes. Um, mental health, uh, stress. Just like your, your physicality.
Mandy: Mm-hmm. How you're coming to work. And that was something that come, the pandemic was very difficult [00:03:00] as someone who was still going to work, you know, every day 
Chris: in person. And the pay wasn't the best. It was, it was decent. I, I'm assuming it's better than average, right? Yeah. Average salary is like 50, 60 K a year now, I think.
Chris: I don't know. Yeah. Right. So it's better than that, but not good enough. And is that why you decided to Yeah. Go into tech. 
Mandy: It was, it really was more of the, I kind of had that. Come, come the Jesus moment if we're gonna say that. Where I just, I just was, was in there. I was working and just in the middle of my shift I just was like, I don't think I can do this the rest of my life.
Mandy: I just kind of had like a moment where I was like, man, like I'm already, I like my wrists are already hurting. Like my, you know, I already feel the sands of time ticking away here. Uh, I can't imagine. So there's no better time than now. That's essentially what I thought. There's no better time than now.
Mandy: Like, let's just get into it. Let's make that 
Chris: jump. And it's interesting you bring that up because I, before tech, I remember and I didn't make much. I made around, and I lived in Irvine, [00:04:00] California. Expensive as hell to live there. Mm-hmm. Making around 28 to $32,000 a year. Right. I couldn't afford a apartment, I had to rent a room.
Chris: It was really a closet. Yeah. And I remember accepting, this is gonna be my life forever. I'm never meant to succeed in anything. And it is, I feel so hopeless. Right, but who would've known that? Just not, not around the door. It's like a million doors you have to run through. Right? Yeah. There's that life in tech that could potentially change your life.
Chris: Right. So like, just, just trying to like relate with you because I didn't know. I kind of, I mean, I relate like that feeling of, all right, I can't, I don't wanna do this forever. It can't be this forever. Mm-hmm. This, that's terrible. Mm-hmm. Right. So that's cool. So then you decided to try to go to tech and you started looking around, I'm stealing, right?
Chris: So did you think bootcamp was the only way? Did you try to do the self-taught route? 
Mandy: So I. I'm not a patient person. Let's just go with that. So the idea of going to school, getting a master's in some of these things, cuz I, I [00:05:00] look at the job postings of course and some people are asking for a master's, but you're gonna get honestly the same skills, if not better skills.
Mandy: Like you're gonna get more hands on training at a bootcamp than you would going into a master's. Cuz Master's gonna really hone in on that Theory and theory is great. But theory doesn't help you to do your 
Chris: job? No, no. I mean, in, in the, at the companies I worked at, unless you're in, um, machine learning, right?
Chris: They want people for doctorate, you name it, double doctorates, whatever, um, uh, no one really cared if you had a Master's or not. I mean, yeah, a degree helps. It always helps, but it's not always, you know, it's not always everything. That's interesting. Okay. So then you chose bootcamp. You didn't wanna do self-taught.
Chris: Yep. 
Mandy: No, I, I, I am pretty disciplined, but I also like to have access to people who have more experience because if you do self-taught, you can watch a million YouTube videos, but if you just aren't figuring it out, it's really nice to have access to somebody who [00:06:00] has done this a million times and can explain it a different way and can work with you hands on.
Mandy: That's the part I liked. I liked that they can jump into a Zoom room with you and. Help you through your issues yourself. Cause if you, I mean, we love Stack Overflow, but Stack Overflow can only get you 
Chris: so far GBTs here. Oh, no. GBTs here. Uh, yeah, that's true. GBT four, GBT 10 will be around probably next year.
Chris: But, uh, you know, yeah, no, definitely. I, I agree and that makes sense, right. For me, I, I want to self-taught route, but I think I survived a self-taught route because I got lucky. No, it luck. Yeah. And. You know, I, and a lot of effort, but getting a job in three months isn't normal, especially when I don't know Jake Quarry.
Chris: Mm-hmm. JavaScript, css, all I knew was H T L. So, uh, yeah, I kind of got lucky. And then boom, I am where I am today. Right. Because of that. And so, but if it wasn't for that, if it took me a year, if not longer to get a job, I probably would've given up because I would've felt so lost. Yeah. So, [00:07:00] And, and I couldn't go.
Chris: I tried, actually, coding Dojo was a bootcamp I wanted to go to seven years ago. I couldn't afford it. I didn't have the credit for a loan. You name it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's so interesting that I'm interviewing people who attended and so and so, but yeah, so if I, if I didn't do it in the year, I would've given up because I had no guidance or direction.
Chris: Hence why I did my YouTube channel. Mm-hmm. To help people and give them the guidance direction I hope I had. Right. So coding dor then you just chose Coding Dojo, you didn't look at other coding boot camps. How did that happen? Did it, did they send you I did look at coding. Oh, they did? Okay. 
Mandy: No. Yeah, I, I looked at multiple, again, I mentioned I'm not a patient person.
Mandy: Um, so they had the shortest one. Theirs was 12 weeks at the time. It's no longer 12 weeks because they've added more to their curriculum, but at the time it was 12 weeks, but they were covering everything that the other ones were. So in my mind, I was like, yo, I'm getting everything I can get into my career faster.
Mandy: And it's cheaper, so it kind of, it's cheaper than college. Added everything together. I was like, let's go. 
Chris: How much, how much cheaper in college? How, how much was [00:08:00] it for you when you went to the coding bootcamp? So 
Mandy: I believe they had a scholarship opportunity as well, um, for people that were starting a new career.
Mandy: And as well, I think I'm, I hope I'm not confusing it with another one, but there also was like a women's scholarship as well, so. I think at the time it was around $5,000, so it went down to 4,000 for me. I know the prices have changed since then, 
Chris: but you were, so you were still working full-time in the medical field while going to a part-time Coney bootcamp is that.
Mandy: How so? It's actually more dramatic than, more dramatic. We're gonna get into that. So it's more dramatic. Oh, sip. Oh God. At the time, um, I tried to actually, the, the start of the bootcamp was overlapping. My mother needed brain surgery, so I was gonna go on leave and I was gonna help take care of her. And so it was gonna overlap so that, um, [00:09:00] when I was gonna be on leave, I'd also be getting through the bulk of the bootcamp.
Mandy: And then what actually happened is my mom unfortunately had complications of her surgery. She was in a coma for two weeks. She was in rehab for a month. So I was doing this camp while including bootcamp camp part-time. Yeah, but driving to the hospital, I was coding on my little laptop, like in a ho I c u room.
Mandy: Uh, and it was, it was stressful. So when people, I've been in other interviews before where they're like, what was the first couple weeks like? And I'm like, I have no idea. I don't remember. It's a blur. I made it. But, uh, it was, it was a very stressful time and, The best part was I, well, maybe not the best part, but I communicated with the instructor.
Mandy: I said, Hey, you know, here's my situation. And they were so understanding, like they're, they weren't gonna, you know, push me aside or feel like, you know, well, she's not turning in her work. I mean, I turned it all in time, but, but they were very empathetic and they understood my [00:10:00] situation and they. You know, were there for me.
Mandy: They said, if you need extra time, let me know. Communicate with me. So they, they understood understanding that there are lives outside of this. We're not just, you know, a, a money to them or anything like that. 
Chris: Yeah, no, I mean, that's huge. That's important. I mean, life happens, right? Yeah. But I can only imagine the thought process.
Chris: And, and I think despite going through that, the, the determination to keep going, So I, I'm, I'm a weakling. Yeah. Right. I think that's what, you know, uh, I if, if something like that happened, hey, I'm out, whatever, take my money, I'll come back next year. Right, right. And so the determination to keep going through that, what, what pushed you to keep going then?
Chris: Because you could have, right? I mean, $5,000 for bootcamp is Yeah, definitely could've. I mean, it is a lot. So, sorry. That's a lot for a lot of people, right. So like, yeah. What, what pushed you to keep going through that whole process? 
Mandy: I. I think it's [00:11:00] just my, myself, I've kind of always been that way. Um, gosh, I don't mean to be so negative, but like my senior year of college as well, I lost my father.
Mandy: So that was something where I, I lost him, but that same semester, I got a 4.0. Couldn't tell you how. Same thing. It's like I just, when when I'm put in these very hard times, I just push through and that's just kind of how I'm built, I guess. But when the going gets tough, I try three times harder. And it, it might be a coping mechanism maybe, but uh, yeah, I think it's myself.
Mandy: It's knowing that, you know, even my mother, like how she was like, When they want you to succeed. So my mom would probably be upset if I stopped. She would say, why did you do that? You know, like, you should, you should still work hard. Like, I know you really want to get into that new career. Um, so it's just really, I pu I pushed myself for sure.
Mandy: [00:12:00] I'm, I'm my number one critic. Everyone's their number one critic, but I'm also my number one motivator 
Chris: that is, ugh. All right. I'm not gonna shed a tear. Uh, that's just it. It's so brave you to be honest. Right. And I'm sure you've heard this a lot already. Thanks. But I also know how hard it is to code. Um, yeah.
Chris: First of all, the situation. Dad and g porno, you're an alien. Like you're not human. That's insane. Like what I mean by that, just I, I, I'm so, I'm, I'm emotional person and I know that. Right. Um, and, and so like I know I couldn't do that. Right. And then now, The only parent you have left going through that situation and then you still pushing through to learn how to code.
Chris: And what I'm trying to say is I know how difficult it is and knowing what course you took. Yeah. It's not for the development, it's data science. You know that. I mean, okay. Both of them are hard. People are gonna kill me now. Right. They're both d difficult, but back in from my experience, 
Mandy: oh, coding is another language.
Mandy: It's hard to learn a [00:13:00] language 
Chris: and so. You chose the coding bootcamp because you chose Coding Doja. Right. And, and we, I know we went a tangent, but it is mm-hmm. It's just, it's nice to hear your story before all of this. So then I'm curious, right. Yeah. Why did you choose that bootcamp? Why this bootcamp?
Chris: Particular Because they, the part-time, it's part-time and it's cheaper. Mm-hmm. $6,000, 5,000, whatever it cost. How 
Mandy: come there's, yeah, there's a lot that goes into it. Money. Money's always gonna be important. It was, it was cheaper. Like if you're doing, you know, price per, per, per day or per week, maybe it is just as expensive if you're thinking it from that point of view.
Mandy: To the other ones in the market. Um, but it was faster. I was ready for a new career yesterday. Like I wasn't trying to take my time. Um, but I also wanted that support. They had the support, they had homework. I'm a proponent of homework. That's the only way you're gonna learn is if you do. 
Chris: I'm sure you probably heard [00:14:00] negative things about bootcamp prior to Coney Bootcamp during, even after.
Chris: Um, Are there any, is there anything that you've heard about a coding bootcamp and that wasn't true or things you did hear that did end up becoming a reality that you saw for yourself? 
Mandy: Um, so I, I might've been like a earmuffs person. I didn't hear that many bad things, but I think once I got out and I graduated from it, I noticed there is kind of like a.
Mandy: Maybe like a bad reputation. Like it's just like, oh, well they didn't care enough to go to real, real school in quotations or, um, you know, they're just chugging out people. So it is really hard. I will say, I'll be honest, like to assert yourself as someone who doesn't have that degree to back 'em up. Um, To be like, I'm just as good as the other people who have that master's or I know just as much, uh, you really, you really do have to either assert yourself or you just gotta know people.
Mandy: You gotta network. I know it's hard for us [00:15:00] introverts out there, uh, really don't like the networking piece, but that's kind of how it is nowadays. 
Chris: No, I agree with that too. Right. Um, to be honest, you're trying to do in a couple weeks, if not a couple months, what people took four years, maybe six years to do.
Chris: Right, right. Not just out to people interviewing. You probably have a CS degree or whatever degree with anything. Mm-hmm. Right. So I think the mistake that people make is thinking bootcamp is enough. It's never going to be just enough. It's a guidance, it's a track that you can follow, yet people could tutor you.
Chris: Yes. But if you only stick to, and I, and please correct me if I'm wrong, cuz I never went to bootcamp, but I, I believe if you only, even if this applies to even college, if you only apply to what you learn in college, um, to your, your technical skills or coding bootcamp, it won't get you far enough. You have to actually go, I think you have to go above and beyond.
Chris: Number one, tech is competitive. There's a reason that I make multiple six figures. Right. And we'll make more right people trying to take me away from my current job because it's competitive as hell. And [00:16:00] you think they're just gonna give that money to anyone else? Mm-hmm. Right? Uh, to just you. So you have to go back and beyond, 
Mandy: I, I'll just say walk watching other people.
Mandy: You can do the bare minimum, you can do what it takes just to get through the bootcamp, but I guarantee you're not gonna be prepared. You're not gonna be prepared. You need to take it to the next level. You need to do the extra reading. Like you, you have to, you get, I know it's so cliche, but you do get what you put in.
Mandy: If you're not putting in the extra effort, then you know, I. Best of luck. That's all I'm gonna say. Uh, and besides that too, it, it did take me actually five months to start my new job. I'll, I'll say probably, and I applied to like over 500 
Chris: jobs to get a new job. Post-graduation. Yeah. Got five months, 
Mandy: yeah.
Mandy: After graduating to bootcamp. So it took a lot of time, a lot of applications out of that, I think I got maybe. Three or four interviews? Uh, not a [00:17:00] lot. Not a lot for that 500. And I was applying to stuff that, I mean, some of 'em, you applied the ones that wanted a master's, but I was like, I'm gonna ignore that.
Mandy: Everything else I have covered. Um, but I wasn't applying to any senior. I, it was all entry level positions. I wasn't going above what I thought I could do. Um, but I'm gonna agree with you. I think that the boot camps and education just in general is a foundation. That's the foundation. It gets you started, it gets you that information.
Mandy: But on the job is really where you're gonna get true skills and where you're really gonna take off your, your knowledge and your skills. 
Chris: Oh. What you learn in a job in just one or two months is more what you learn in entire bootcamp, right? Uh, yeah, a hundred percent. It is insane. It, it is it life. I mean, work experience wins every time, right?
Chris: And so I, I agree. And so, okay. Now going back then, right through your, your process, because there are a lot of people right now who are, I don't know if we're in a recession anymore. It feels like it, it's only people are losing their jobs right now in tech. I least in tech. [00:18:00] And so people are are curious about gonna bootcamp or not.
Chris: Right. Go self-taught route. And so how was your experience then going through a bootcamp? Right. Like, okay. I like what you said so far. You said you can't just put in the bare minimum. You get what you, you know, you, you get out what you put into it. I agree a hundred percent. Um, but how was that experience, right, for you personally?
Chris: Um, from the day-to-day course? I'm assuming it was all online on Zoom or something. So how was that experience for you? 
Mandy: Yeah. It was all online. Um, they had two live classes. This bootcamp specifically had two live classes a week. So I think mine was Monday, Wednesday, or Tuesday, Thursday, I forget. But two live classes.
Mandy: Um, you had your homework that was due every week. You had, um, what if you don't do your homework? Kind of like a test. Yeah, like an exam. Uh, you don't move on to the next. Wow. You gotta do your homework. You got to do your, you don't move on to the next, to the next section. Yeah. Okay. That's good. That makes sense.
Mandy: Yeah. And then So it's required. Yeah, it's required. Okay. 
Chris: Boot camp's not for me. All right. What, what, what else? Yeah. Oh, [00:19:00] shoot. 
Mandy: Uh, yeah, you'd have, you can have exams after each section that's just gonna test your knowledge. So they really, I mean, you probably noticed you can get away with things via copy paste.
Mandy: You can, I'm judging, that's what I mean by the bare minimum. Like you. Yeah, chat. G p t might, might, uh, might kill the boot camps. We'll see. No one's actually gonna know how to do anything themselves. It's just all chat G p T. But, um, yeah, a a lot of homework, the exams, uh, the live courses. And then you, we had TAs and I even became a TA right after graduation.
Mandy: Nice too. Just like while I was waiting for my, they paid for that, my full-time job. 
Chris: Yeah. I guess they pay. Yeah. So, 
Mandy: Hmm. They pay you to be Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was paid. It was paid ta. Yeah, because it was after you graduated. It wasn't like how it is in school where they're like working on their PhD or something.
Mandy: Like you were your own contractor. Um, and so you had access to TAs too. So while you were doing homework, if you got stuck, like one of [00:20:00] them could help you out. The instructors, if they were free, could help you out. Um, I will say, even though it was part-time, uh, it, it's. Hard if you are working a full-time job, like even the part-time ones, it's really hard to balance that cuz part-time, if you think of it like what part-time is is 20 to 30 hours a week still.
Mandy: So it's, it's its own job for sure. It, 
Chris: it's, and I think that's what kind of weeds out the people who want it and people who don't. Right. People who just want everything to be given to you and people who are willing to work for it. And, and, and I kind of applied that to like working out, because now I'm finally losing weight, thank God.
Chris: Um, I've always worked out whenever I felt like, only when I felt like it. Now I'm gonna set schedule. I count all my cal, like I measure everything. Like it's, it's funny, but now I'm losing like a lot of weight, like, like 10 pounds a week now. Right. And, but like, The reason I wasn't losing weight before when I tried to do this in the past is because I wasn't willing to put in that extra effort to like really count, [00:21:00] measure everything.
Chris: Mm-hmm. Really makes you push yourself when you work out. The consistency of that. Even when I travel before work and I travel a lot, um, but because I, I don't want to die and I wanna live past 40. Right. And so I'm determined like crazy and, and if I wasn't, I'd continue like being lazy and getting a lot of weight.
Chris: Right. And that's not good for me. And, and, and that applies to everything else. Mm-hmm. Especially I think in coding, because we make so much money, you cannot fake your way into a, a tech job. You have to really be willing to like really go 20%. Wow. Okay. 
Mandy: Yeah. And I know this is, this is kind of mean, but that is one thing is.
Mandy: I know that people like to be optimistic and say, you know, anyone can do this. But to be honest, I, I don't think that's actually true. There is a certain level of kind of computer skill and insight and just kind of, kind of critical thinking that you have to have. And some people have it and some people [00:22:00] unfortunately don't.
Mandy: Um, so I think you do have to be kind of honest with yourself. Before jumping into any of these careers and know is this, is this something that I can actually, you know, do? Like, is this something, am I gonna be able, because it's not just take it to the next level in your bootcamp or in your education, you're gonna have to do that every single day.
Mandy: You're always gonna have to think of new ways to approach things of, you know, creative solutions or, Kind of pulling from other techniques, from other kind of fields to do what you need to do. I 
Chris: agree in a way where, yes, it's not for everyone, but I, I do think that when it comes to the critical thinking part, that can be learned why that was me.
Chris: Right? So about me, I say this in every video because I'm so proud of it. I was in special ed, I'm slow as hell. I have dyslexia. Um, but I was in special ed because my brain, I was born in six months rather than nine. So it took me, [00:23:00] Longer to develop my brain. Mm-hmm. Much longer. I mean, that's men in general, but for me, unfortunately, it was longer than usual.
Chris: Right. And, and, and so, and, and I think for me personally, it took me time to learn all, all of that. And, and I think what didn't help was knowing, okay, I was in special ed. Okay. I, I dropped outta these colleges. Okay. I suck at everything. And I, I definitely think it's a confidence factor or people who can guide you, but yeah.
Chris: Yeah. I think that's it. It could be, I think it could be learned, but more than anything though, If you're not willing to put an effort when you don't understand something, you just give up if you're not willing to really push through. Yes, because it gets hard. Oh my God. When I was, I mean, I, I am a developed African now, but when I was a software engineer, it is hard.
Chris: I have a, a friend here at my current job, and he's a senior sophomore engineer. He came in Twilio. He's insane, and he was required to solve a problem. He knows nothing about. The only way he can solve it was buy book and read the entire book. I'm like, dang. So every night, during the day, on the [00:24:00] weekends, he's reading this entire book to learn something he doesn't know nothing about.
Chris: So he can fix that problem. Right. That's not easy. And I don't think just anyone can do that because I even, I don't want to do that. No way. I don't wanna do that. But, uh, no, that's just right. I don't do that. Right. So it's, it's totally different. Right. Um, so yeah, I definitely do agree with that part. And so, 
Mandy: No.
Mandy: Yeah, you're, you're right. I, I think there is an intention piece as well. You have to want to, want to do it. I think critical thinking is a want as well. You have to want to think about it critically. Cuz I, I have some people I work with where they just say, oh, this is how it is. It's not working how it is.
Mandy: And they're just like, guess it doesn't work. Like they don't want to, they don't want to. Look into it or think of it a different way if you don't know, like maybe you don't have that knowledge piece yet, but you want to look into it more. I think that's critical thinking. If you, if you want to learn more about it, like you have that intention, you're thinking there is a way to do this.
Mandy: I just don't know. [00:25:00] 
Chris: Still done talking about this for some people who are interested and want to attend a bootcamp. What should they be prepared for, right? Mm-hmm. What do you want to maybe warn them about but also maybe art and also be ready for, you know, this is gonna be great in some different aspect?
Mandy: Uh, that's a great question. So I would say be ready to not know, and sometimes that's okay. Because like you said, it's, you're on a, you're on an accelerated pathway. If it's the stuff that in like week two, three, cuz all this stuff at least in mind, builds upon each other. If it's week two and three that you're having a hard time grasping on, that's a problem.
Mandy: But if it's week like 11 out of 12 that you're having difficulty grasping, that's probably fine. Like that's, you've had all this information mush in your head in the last 10 weeks. So like it's okay not to understand something the first time you hear it. [00:26:00] And as long as you have that foundation in the beginning, you'll figure it out one day, I promise it might be a couple months later when you're finally in the field, you're working and all of a sudden you're like, oh my gosh, I understand convolutional neural networks now, just like while I was in school.
Mandy: No idea. I'm just getting through. But, uh, It'll hit you. It'll hit 
Chris: you. Would you? Or if you, you know what? If you were to start over, if you were to start over, would you do it again? Yeah, 
Mandy: I would do it again. Okay. Especially because the reason I have my job today is because one of the TAs. Got me this job.
Mandy: So I created that. What, like I said, it's like built in networking. Like I, I did my above and beyond I cr I developed a relationship naturally. I didn't have to go on LinkedIn and stalk somebody and say, Hey, I see you're doing X, Y, Z, I wanna do X, Y, z. I didn't have to do any of that. I naturally made a relationship.
Mandy: She saw me [00:27:00] struggling. She was like, Why aren't you employed yet? And she said, let me pull some strings. Let me see what I can do. And honestly, that's, that's more beneficial than I feel like anything. It's developing those relationships and even your fellow co like cohort mates. So maybe one of them gets a job first.
Mandy: They see an opening on their team. They say, Hey buddy, are you still working for a job? Like, let me see what I can do. Let me get you in. They, if they hired that guy right. Then they're obviously fine with boot camps. They're fine. So there you go. You, you just continue on the chain of helping each other.
Mandy: Yeah, and we need more of that. 
Chris: Networking is everything. I have a friend who was gonna apply to another job. I told him, don't work there. I wanted him to work in my company. Alright. He was a, a support engineer, not a, like a software engineer yet. And so I just asked for his resume. I want, I'm just curious, lemme see your resume.
Chris: And I applied to, at my company for him yet, no [00:28:00] idea. And then the recruiter reached out to him, he said, Hey, thanks for applying, you want to interview you? Um, right. And, and, but what I'm trying to say is, I think network is everything but Ian, for the introvert like you, you made friends. Right. And that helped you win, get a job five months after bootcamp.
Chris: Yep. So you didn't find a coding bootcamp then through Coding Dojo? It was through networking. Um, was there anything wrong on coding Dojo's and Right? Was there some, did the, did they not look long enough? How did that at the time, 
Mandy: like the, yeah, like I said, when I went through was different than today. So back then they didn't have any career services.
Mandy: So now they do. Oh, it was, I think even like two cycles after me. They had it, but I didn't have that. So that was just something where, you know, at the time I didn't have the support. It was kinda like good luck. Um, so yeah, just a lot of LinkedIn, LinkedIn job searches, [00:29:00] and I, I also really wanted that work from home life.
Mandy: And as, as you can see, I'm working from home. I got my dog next to me over there. Uh, that's the best. It's a game 
Chris: changer. It's in those five months in before getting a job. How are those emotions? You are, you are working full-time still. Your mom was sick. Um, I'm assuming still sick cuz we can't visit that long during that process.
Chris: Right. Um, you're trying to push through that five months. No job. Five months, I'm assuming over a thousand applications, if not thousands. I don't know. Right. Um, especially during that time. There were, there were a lot of jobs at 
Mandy: that time. There were a lot of jobs. That's one thing too, that I am a little bit more cautious maybe about the boot camps at the moment because the layoffs, um, unfortunately the new people are usually the first ones, and so I am, I am kind of a little cautious just about entering the workforce right now.
Mandy: I do agree with you. I think, I think things are gonna slowly get better, but we just don't know when that is. [00:30:00] Um, but if I'm thinking back, so go back to your original question. I went on a tangent, but I think I got my job offer in, so I graduated in October of 2021 to do the timeline. Um, and I got my job offer, I think mid-February 22.
Mandy: And then my job didn't start until March. Of 22, end of March 22. So given that it kind of was like more like four months before a job offer occurred, but um, also because of Covid, the background checks were so backlogged that they were like, we can't start you because Oh wow, that's interesting.
Mandy: Background checks are taken six weeks to come back. Yeah. So, yeah, it was a weird time. It was. And then 
Chris: those four months, then were, were you nervous that No, like month number one comes by? Month number two, number three. Like, were you worried, were you stressed out? Like, why is no one hiring me? What were your thoughts?
Chris: Were [00:31:00] you thinking, did you have, I'm assuming we didn't. I'm sure everyone does. What did I waste my time? Right, with the bootcamp? 
Mandy: Definitely stressed out. Um, yeah, like you said, first month or two, no big deal. You know, sometimes this time take time. You know, I have no experience basically. So like it's, it's not like.
Mandy: My first career where I had, you know, being in a medical field, we had clinicals. So we did have experience kind of working on the job. We had built those relationships. I said, I'm in a new world here. Uh, I understand it's gonna take a bit for the industry to trust me or to really like break into it. Um, yeah, come, come Mum three, mum four.
Mandy: Definitely like, man, what did I do? Did I just uproot and ruin my life? Um, you have those thoughts cuz I did actually even quit my job. I got a little bit excited. I quit my job. I had like a part-time job on the side, but it was just like I said, you quit your job after 
Chris: coding bootcamp. [00:32:00] 
Mandy: I, I did, but that was because of actually during it, technically just, just the stress.
Mandy: That job was so stressful, so toxic. I said, I gotta get outta here for me, um, I kept like a couple, like, like a, they call it PRN in the medical field and it's like a pickup shift job. So I kept one of those. So I had a job. I wasn't completely unemployed, but, um, yeah, I was like, oh man, what did I just do to myself?
Mandy: Uh, and. Thankfully it worked out, but I would not suggest quitting your job before securing a new job. That that would be my advice to other people. Even if it's toxic, that's 
Chris: okay. That's one thing I can criticize about you right there. Yeah. Don't do that. Yeah. That was no, but yeah. Oh, then that was have been stressful then 
Mandy: because I had savings.
Mandy: Right. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have done it unless I had savings. I said I have savings for the next six months. Even if I can't get a job, I've, okay. Okay. Over two jobs on the side, like I, but two months I made sure left. Yeah. So it was getting, it was getting close there. [00:33:00] 
Chris: Yeah. Yeah. I could, I, I could only imagine looking at that backing count.
Chris: Right. Um, I mean, I'm sure a lot of people feel that now with the layoffs, so. Okay. And you know what, we didn't even go over, so you went through the data science cl track in Coding Dojo. Does that mean you were trying to be a data scientist? Data engineer? Data analyst? What was your original intention or what was your original goal during bootcamp?
Chris: What was the job you were looking for? 
Mandy: So that's actually another reason why I picked this one as well. I went to an open house and I spoke with one of the instructors, and I asked her, I said, why should I do your bootcamp? Why should I do a data science one versus a data analytics one? Because we're cheaper.
Mandy: I'm just, I'm just blunting to the point like that. Yeah, no, she said, so data science, she's like, data science will cover more. You have more options. You could go all these different routes, data analytics, you're gonna get. That's. You can do data analytics. That's it. Um, so I'm working as kind of a data, data analytics slash engineer capacity [00:34:00] at the moment.
Mandy: Um, so I haven't broken into the data science aspect yet, but No worries. Because I chose data science, it kind of opened up a lot of avenues for me and, 
Chris: and, and the front end field. Right. And I'm kind of glad I don't work as a front end developer no more. It is extremely competitive. And when I say extremely competitive, there's just more people learning it, right?
Chris: I, I, I would, let's say if we're making up a number four to one, you know, like. Let's just say a thousand people applying to one job for a data scientist, probably 4,000 people applying to one job for a fund developed position. Right? It is. That's what everyone tends to go through because that's just more popular in internet right now.
Chris: Right. Um, and so I'm really glad I work in data space. So right now you work as a data analyst slash engineer you said. Mm-hmm. Um, and before that then, I'm curious bef I want to dive into that. Well, we only have a couple minutes left. Sure. But how did it feel to get that job offer? You worked your ass off.
Chris: You 
Mandy: quit your job, [00:35:00] especially at the company I'm at Uhhuh. Yeah, especially 
Chris: at the company you're at. Oh, you said you work for a big four company. 
Mandy: It was, yeah, big four financials. So I didn't even, I'm not a financial person. I didn't go to school for finance, so I didn't really know it was a big deal. I like had Googled it and I was just like, all right, it's a job.
Mandy: Like I can't be picky right now. Like they're gonna pay me money. Um, and they even offered me more than I asked for, which I was, isn't that the best? Cool with That was all right. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. I was like, okay, that's 
Chris: the best. Wow. That 
Mandy: felt nice. Now, of course I'm like you. I'm like, okay, when's my race?
Mandy: Yes. When's my raise? I want, oh my gosh. But, uh, just cause I know I can, cause I know, I know they would potentially in theory, but, uh, yeah, it was a great feeling. It was a great feeling knowing, you know, someone. Well, also, it was great to know that someone, you know, my, my previous TA was vouching for me, and that in itself was a great feeling knowing someone vouched for me and that, and if [00:36:00] it's a, a larger 
Chris: FinTech company were Yeah, that, that's impressive.
Mandy: So I was, I was pretty happy. I, yeah, I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And honestly, it took. Probably five or six months to actually know what I, what I did. Um, it does take a while. People would say, what do you do for work? I'm like, I don't know. I just, 
Chris: I just do, I just show up. I just do, I do stuff look productive.
Chris: Yeah. Just do stuff. Especially when you work from home, it's hard. You have to really show your productive, right? Yeah. Um, how do you feel knowing that in tech? Yeah. Your career is know. I mean, it depends on how much work you wanna put in. Their responsibilities you want is nowhere but up. Uh, that's how it is in tech.
Chris: Literally no. Nowhere but up. Yeah. Unless you just want to go down. Yeah. How does that feel for you then, now that you're working in tech? And I will 
Mandy: say, yeah, so this being my second career too, it's not like I, like I bring a lot of soft skills to the table. Like I've already been through a whole career. I know how to assert myself.
Mandy: Yeah. Like, like you know how to have a conversation. Unfortunately, there are some people [00:37:00] coming outta college, they just haven't built that confidence yet. So when they're put in a room with people, they're like, Uh, you know, they, they don't have that experience yet. That's soft skills. That's gonna come over time, just the more you put yourself in those situations.
Mandy: Um, so that was something like already they're just like, all right, dude. Like you learned all, all of the hard skills. Your soft skills are already up to date. Like you're ready to climb the ladder already. And I've been at my job, you know, a little over a year and. Although unfortunately the promotion cycle is very fixed in the financial world, so I, I do have to wait till a certain time to get promotions, but they're already like, yeah, dude, you're ready for a promotion.
Mandy: Like, we just have to unfortunately wait for time to pass. Yeah. That's how it is in, in the financial world for sure. Even, even the first year. Yeah, so, so I think, I think when, this is like your second career and stuff, you're really set up for success because people are gonna see you as more of their peer because you have that life experience.
Mandy: No, 
Chris: I, I agree. And I, I think that's what helped me a lot. [00:38:00] Right. I, I am not the most technical person. I know that for a fact. But my soft skills, um, the ability to speak despite me having dyslexia and speaking, and I had a, what do you call it? Speech impediment when I was younger, um, most of my childhood, high school, college.
Chris: Yeah. And now that's my job. I, I'm the main person in my company that travels the world and speaks at these larger conferences, small conferences, you name it. Yeah. Kind of crazy. And, and it really, in what I've learned from my experience up to today is that we set the limit to what we can do. Right. And don't allow yourself to say, you can only do this.
Chris: You can only do that. No, you could do so much more. It really depends on how you're willing to work. And so how has your life changed now post tech? I mean, not post tech, post bootcamp, post medical field. How do you liken your life now? Work-life balance is great. I'm assuming how, I mean you, I'm sure you had great health insurance at the medical field, but how is that now?
Chris: How has your life 
Mandy: changed? Yeah. Um, definitely I think, I think the mental health is, is much better. I think just that work from home aspect, um, the flexibility is so much [00:39:00] better because it's not like, it's not like healthcare. Like when you go into healthcare, it's okay, we have, we are open, you know, retail, all that.
Mandy: We are open from these hours. That's when you work versus now it's like, oh, I got a doctor's appointment. They're like, okay, cool. See ya. It's, it's amazing. And I don't have to commute, so we don't have to factor that in. It's just, I leave from my house, I go, I come back to my house. Um, it's, I really like, I mean, I, my dog is not my emotional support dog.
Mandy: I'm her emotional support human. But I love having my little buddy next to me all day, you know, when I have a weird meeting. Yep. She's sweet. She's taking a nap right now. 
Chris: My dogs are right behind me this morning. I took a two hour walk. Right. I'm doing this one hour interview right after this. I'm gonna work out.
Chris: It'll be one, one o'clock by the time I'm done working out. Done No work yet. Right. And and, and they're paying. But you'll get it all done today. Well, I did. I got it done yesterday. Yeah. So I'm kind of chilling today and tomorrow, but tech life. [00:40:00] Right, right. Um, I feel that, I feel that and getting paid more than pharmacists and doctors, which is insane.
Chris: Right. So the tech le, and again, you have to work for that though. It wasn't like this for me, my first four years in tech, not at all. Right? So I had to work my ass off and I still do. I do, but just for half the week now. I hope my boss isn't watched this. No. But yeah, so that is amazing though. Oh gosh, Mandy, sax, I'm so happy for you.
Chris: Seriously hearing about your journey where you are today. Um, is there any last words you wanna share if anyone that made it to the end? Any last thing you wanna tell them who are maybe be considering bootcamp or maybe they don't want to do bootcamp? Whatever you wanna say. 
Mandy: I would say just it's cliche.
Mandy: Just like if you wanna do it, just do it. You know, Shiloh buff said it said it best in front of the green screen, you know, just do it. Yesterday you said tomorrow. Just do it. You know, you got, you gotta just, just take that leap because if you keep holding yourself back, you're gonna, you're going to be on the other side of [00:41:00] that moment.
Mandy: I had right where I, I had that moment. I said, I can't do this for another 30 years, but you could be on the other side that you could be 30 years done in the line. You look back and you're like, man, I could have done this 30 years ago. And so, you know, just. Yeah, it's never, it's never too late. I mean, I'm, I'm still young.
Mandy: Like I did, I didn't, you are young. Way too long. I don't think, I think I had perfect timing. Yeah, I got the baby face. But, um, that's one thing too that does happen in my workplace because I got the baby face, cuz I have the entry level. You know, sometimes people don't know what they're getting into. Uh, when they talk to me, they're like, oh, look at that little, little thing she just got out of college.
Mandy: No, like, I got a whole, I will, I will tell you what's up. So they're always very shocked when they learn, you know, how much life knowledge I have and how much I'm I. How hard I work and kind of just my, well with all about the world. And also I wanted to comment too, um, just I myself also have a speech [00:42:00] impediment, so I just love that you are like, out here, you've had all that history and you speak for a living, right?
Mandy: Yeah, it's crazy. Um, like I remember being in like theater class in, in high school and my theater teacher like called me out and he was like, You'll never have any, like any chance speaking in front of people or anything because you have, you can't speak words. Right. Right. And just that, that killed me inside and I, I.
Mandy: Went into a shelf for a while, and that's maybe why I, I chose like a career. I did. I chose one that's kind of in the, in the background, and I've gotten over that as I've gotten older. And now, you know, half of my job is, is speaking to clients and speaking to people. And I definitely don't care anymore if, if, uh, You know, it, my speech impediment comes out, you know, it is what it is.
Mandy: But yeah, it's easy. I just wanna thank you for kind of being out here and being yourself. I 
Chris: love it. Oh, I appreciate that. Um, definitely wasn't easy, [00:43:00] right? It was a lot of, you know, hiccups in my life too, and I'm very, I am very lucky to be around. I mean, it's a lot of hard work, but also Wow. Uh, I know how many people would do anything to be in a position I'm in today, so I'm not taking for granted.
Chris: Um, one thing I wanna bring up, are you a gamer? Because you, you have the, those are those razor headphones. Got the, you had the gamer chair, gamer headphones? No, they're corer, of course. Okay. It was either that course air course, right? Yep. What game do you play? If 
Mandy: you wanna know? So, my real origin too, um, I used to play World of Warcraft hardcore.
Mandy: I was a guild master, like. Four years. Um, no longer. Yeah. Super nerd. Super nerd. Now I'm playing Tune town, so that's kind chill of where, where I've ended 
Chris: up. I'm a, I'm currently a holy priest in my guild. That's good. I'm the best healer in the team in the guild. Also, I, I'm a monk, brewmaster 10. Oh, of course.
Chris: But, um, I unplugged my gaming pc, threw it on the couch, right? And I'm like, no. Because the last three months have did nothing. Nothing. And so I had to, I [00:44:00] had to keep up and go back to living life. And so, no, what a Warcraft. 
Mandy: It becomes a job. It becomes a job. And that's why I quit as well. It doesn't 
Chris: help you in your life.
Mandy: Right? That's why I quit as well. I was like, man, I'm getting so stressed out about this game. Yes, I pay money for like, why? Why am I letting play the, 
Chris: I've done longer play. Yeah. The community aspect's amazing. It's amazing. Um, but oh yeah, no, I just, I can't do that no more. Um, yeah. Okay. This was amazing. I know we we're almost at time.
Chris: So, seriously, Mandy, thank you so much. Um, you've been great.