Is $170,000 top 10% pay for software developers in San Francisco?
Tags: salary
Published: 2024-03-13 17:08:06

---
title: Is $170,000 top 10% pay for software developers in San Francisco?
published: true
description: The unhelpful and misleading claim from 37signals
tags: salary
---

The short answer: no. [According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm), the 90th percentile annual wage for software developers nationwide is $198,100.

Developer salaries are much higher in San Francisco. [According to Gusto](https://gusto.com/resources/research/salary/software-engineer/ca/san-francisco), the 90th percentile annual salary for software engineers in San Francisco is $215,000. They note that "offering a total compensation package that includes employee benefits and bonus pay to incentivize performance, in addition to competitive base pay, can help attract and retain top talent."

37signals claims they pay ["in the top 10% of the industry based on San Francisco rates"](https://apply.workable.com/37signals/j/9E33A5269C/) and that the salary for Programmers is $170,000. Can that be accurate?

It's not clear what "industry" 37signals refers to in their statement. We know that software developer salaries at non-tech companies can be lower than software developer salaries at all companies in general and much lower than software developer salaries at tech companies. Gergely Orosz covers this well in [The Trimodal Nature of Software Engineering Salaries in the Netherlands and Europe](https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-salaries-in-the-netherlands-and-europe/).

Is 37signals a tech company? Their business is building and selling software. When they accepted investment from Jeff Bezos in 2006, [they wrote about this him](https://signalvnoise.com/archives2/bezos_expeditions_invests_in_37signals): "What we’ve been looking for is the wisdom of a very special entrepreneur who’s been through what we’re going through." 37signals looks like a tech company.

It's also not clear what 37signals means by "San Francisco rates" in their statement. One portion of pay that San Francisco software developers receive is salary, the 90th percentile of which is $215,000 according to Gusto. Many San Francisco software developers also receive equity compensation, and it's not uncommon for the equity portion to be larger than the salary portion. In all public companies and even some private companies, workers can sell that equity portion for dollars.

37signals does not offer traditional equity compensation. They do offer [profit sharing](https://basecamp.com/handbook/benefits-and-perks#employee-profit-sharing), in which employees with more than two years at the company split 10% of the profits based on tenure, and [a liquidity pool](https://basecamp.com/handbook/benefits-and-perks#employee-liquidity-pool) that they never intend to use.

So can it be true that 37signals pays in the top 10% of the industry based on San Francisco rates, which includes paying programmers $170,000? Possibly. We'd need to know their definition of "industry" and "rates." At best, the statement is unhelpful and misleading.

I love that 37signals is transparent about salaries. It allows applicants to self-select and stops workers from wondering if they're being paid unfairly.

37signals is a proudly independent company, and they can pay any rate that the law allows. At $170,000, they'll receive many highly qualified applicants for the position. I wonder why they don't remove the unhelpful and misleading "top 10%" statement.