English: I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate and, in particular, the initiative that the Presiding Officer did at the start of this Assembly to bring these formats of debates forward so that Members can bring issues like this, which aren't in the devolved competence, but do affect many of our constituents and we do have a view on it. And I do pay a special tribute to John and Phil who are up in the gallery this afternoon, and in particular the campaigners as well who have surrounded themselves in this campaign, because it is about justice and it is about natural justice here. When I was looking into this issue over the last couple of days, refreshing my memory of the campaign, I read that the UK Government said that payments were following the legal requirements. Well, there's a moral requirement here, I have to say, and successive Governments have failed to live up to their moral obligations in this particular area. Bethan, in her closing comments, said, 'I'm not a pensioner yet', and I don't mean this in a derogatory way in any shape or form, but we all think about what we want in our retirement, and many, if not all of us, try and put some form of provision in place, and the workers that are affected - by this shortfall that has happened, in one breath, if you want to be kind; robbery in another breath if you want to be brutally honest - have had their future taken away from them. The individuals concerned did what was right - they put a percentage of their income into a pot. That pot was, they thought, secure, and when they came to retirement age, that would have provided the creature comforts and the ability to have a retirement that they'd planned for all their working lives. And across the workforce, some would have had more than others to lose, but each and every one of the workers at ASW, and many other operations across the United Kingdom, not just here in Wales, have had that retirement taken away from them. And there's an obligation on politicians, whatever walk they come from, and from whatever political party they come from, to actually live up to the moral obligation that we need to correct this injustice. And I believe passionately in this, because I've met the campaigners, and John in particular, and Phil, on several occasions and I just cannot see a logical argument that can be put back to them when you see the points that they make. And it's not right that people are having their pension eaten into because they do not have inflation protection built into the compensation package that was put in place. Inflation is a brutal enemy of retirement. Once you move on to that very fixed income of the pension that you have and you physically, obviously are in your - many people stay very active in later life, but it is a fact that you're not doing the same amount of work or having the same opportunities as when you were 20, 30 or 40, and your earning potential is constrained, and you're on that fixed income. And so there is an obligation, I believe, for the UK Government to reopen this. And I know it's a Conservative Government up there today. It was a Conservative/Lib Dem Government before that, and it was a Labour Government before that. And I accept that in the early to mid 2000s, various remedies were put in place, but those remedies have come up short and have come up short in a big way, and it cannot be right that, because a period of time has passed, people in positions of influence and power believe that that time will allow this to be brushed under the carpet and washed away. It will not be allowed to be brushed away and it will not be allowed to be washed away, because, as I've said, the individuals concerned by this injustice did what was right and, as a society, we need to do what's right by them by giving back their pensions and that security that is required in later life. We knew that these things were happening in the 1990s and the 1980s. We only need to look at what happened with the Robert Maxwell pension scandal that was going on at Mirror Group Newspapers. This wasn't something that was unknown, and at the time regulators and politicians didn't step in and correct it. Well, we now know where those anomalies existed. Safeguards have been built into the system, but those caught by the inadequacies of the previous system shouldn't be penalised in their retirement. And I wholeheartedly endorse the sentiments on the order paper today of this motion, and I very much look forward to continuing to campaign with the campaigners to make sure that we give them justice, that we give them their pension back - pensions that they paid into. It is their money, and they deserve it, and we will not allow the passage of time to allow this injustice just to fall away. And so I welcome working across parties in this Chamber to make sure that their voices are not forgotten, and I will work with colleagues, wherever they sit, to make sure that we get the changes to the scheme that are required.
Welsh: Rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i siarad yn y ddadl hon ac yn benodol, menter y Llywydd ar ddechrau'r Cynulliad hwn i gyflwyno dadleuon ar fformat o'r fath fel y gall Aelodau gyflwyno materion fel hyn nad ydynt o fewn y cymhwysedd datganoledig, ond sy'n effeithio ar lawer o'n hetholwyr, a materion y mae gennym farn arnynt. Ac rwy'n talu teyrnged arbennig i John a Phil sydd yn yr oriel y prynhawn yma, ac yn benodol i'r ymgyrchwyr hefyd sydd wedi bwrw iddi gyda'r ymgyrch hon, oherwydd mae a wnelo â chyfiawnder, ac mae a wnelo â chyfiawnder naturiol yma. Pan oeddwn yn edrych ar y mater hwn dros yr ychydig ddyddiau diwethaf i atgoffa fy hun am yr ymgyrch, darllenais fod Llywodraeth y DU wedi dweud bod taliadau'n dilyn y gofynion cyfreithiol. Wel, mae yna ofyniad moesol yma, rhaid imi ddweud, ac mae Llywodraethau olynol wedi methu cyflawni eu rhwymedigaethau moesol yn y maes penodol hwn. Dywedodd Bethan yn ei sylwadau wrth gloi, 'Nid wyf yn bensiynwr eto', ac nid wyf yn golygu hyn mewn ffordd fychanol o gwbl, ond mae pawb ohonom yn meddwl ynglŷn â'r hyn rydym ei eisiau wedi inni ymddeol, ac mae llawer ohonom, os nad pob un ohonom, yn ceisio sefydlu rhyw fath o ddarpariaeth, ac mae'r gweithwyr yr effeithir arnynt - gan y diffyg hwn sydd wedi digwydd ar amrantiad, os ydych am fod yn garedig; mae lladrad yn air arall amdano os ydych am fod yn greulon o onest - wedi cael eu dyfodol wedi'i gymryd oddi arnynt. Fe wnaeth yr unigolion dan sylw y peth cywir - rhoesant ganran o'u hincwm mewn pot. Roeddent yn credu bod y pot hwnnw'n ddiogel a phan ddeuai'n adeg iddynt ymddeol, byddai wedi darparu'r cysuron a'r gallu i gael yr ymddeoliad roeddent wedi cynllunio ar ei gyfer ar hyd eu bywydau gwaith. Ac ar draws y gweithlu, byddai mwy gan rai i'w golli nag eraill, ond mae pob un o weithwyr ASW, a llawer o weithfeydd eraill ledled y Deyrnas Unedig, nid yma yng Nghymru yn unig, wedi gweld yr ymddeoliad hwnnw'n cael ei gymryd oddi arnynt. Ac mae gorfodaeth ar wleidyddion, o ba gefndir bynnag, ac o ba blaid wleidyddol bynnag, i gyflawni'r ddyletswydd foesol sydd ei hangen arnom i unioni'r anghyfiawnder hwn. A chredaf yn gryf yn hyn, oherwydd rwyf wedi cyfarfod â'r ymgyrchwyr, a John yn benodol, a Phil, ar sawl achlysur ac ni allaf weld unrhyw ddadl resymegol y gellir ei rhoi'n ôl iddynt pan welwch y pwyntiau y maent yn eu gwneud. Ac nid yw'n iawn fod pensiynau pobl yn cael eu tocio am nad oes ganddynt amddiffyniad rhag chwyddiant wedi'i gynnwys yn y pecyn iawndal a oedd ar waith. Chwyddiant yw gelyn creulon ymddeoliad. Pan symudwch ymlaen at incwm pensiwn sy'n sefydlog iawn, ac yn amlwg, yn gorfforol, rydych yn eich - mae llawer o bobl yn parhau'n brysur iawn yn ddiweddarach mewn bywyd, ond mae'n ffaith nad ydych yn gwneud yr un faint o waith nac yn cael yr un cyfleoedd â phan oeddech yn 20, 30 neu 40 ac mae eich gallu i ennill cyflog yn gyfyngedig, ac rydych ar yr incwm sefydlog hwnnw. Ac felly, yn fy marn i mae rhwymedigaeth ar Lywodraeth y DU i ailagor hyn. A gwn mai Llywodraeth Geidwadol sydd yno heddiw. Llywodraeth Geidwadol/Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol oedd yno cyn hynny, a Llywodraeth Lafur cyn honno. Ac o ddechrau i ganol y 2000au, rwy'n derbyn bod camau unioni amrywiol wedi'u rhoi ar waith, ond roedd y camau unioni hynny'n ddiffygiol, a hynny i raddau helaeth iawn, ac ni all fod yn iawn, oherwydd bod cyfnod o amser wedi pasio, fod pobl mewn swyddi â dylanwad a grym yn credu y bydd yr amser hwnnw'n caniatáu i hyn gael ei ysgubo o'r golwg a'i anghofio. Ni ddylid caniatáu iddo gael ei ysgubo o'r golwg ac ni ddylid caniatáu iddo gael ei anghofio, oherwydd, fel y dywedais, gwnaeth yr unigolion sy'n destun yr anghyfiawnder hwn yr hyn a oedd yn iawn ac fel cymdeithas, mae angen inni wneud yr hyn sy'n iawn drwy roi eu pensiynau yn ôl iddynt, ynghyd â'r diogelwch hwnnw sydd ei angen yn ddiweddarach mewn bywyd. Roeddem yn gwybod bod y pethau hyn yn digwydd yn y 1980au a'r 1990au. Nid oes ond angen inni edrych ar beth a ddigwyddodd gyda sgandal pensiynau Robert Maxwell a oedd yn digwydd gyda Mirror Group Newspapers. Nid oedd yn rhywbeth nad oedd pobl yn gwybod amdano, ac ar y pryd, ni chamodd rheoleiddwyr a gwleidyddion i mewn a'i gywiro. Wel, gwyddom bellach lle roedd yr anghysonderau hynny. Mae mesurau diogelu wedi'u hymgorffori yn y system, ond ni ddylid cosbi'r rhai a gafodd eu dal gan ddiffygion y system flaenorol yn eu hymddeoliad. A llwyr ategaf deimladau'r cynnig ar y papur trefn heddiw, ac edrychaf ymlaen at barhau i ymgyrchu gyda'r ymgyrchwyr i wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn sicrhau cyfiawnder iddynt, ein bod yn rhoi eu pensiwn yn ôl iddynt - pensiynau y maent wedi talu i mewn iddynt. Eu harian hwy ydyw, ac maent yn ei haeddu, ac ni wnawn ganiatáu i dreigl amser ganiatáu i'r anghyfiawnder hwn gael ei anghofio. Ac felly rwy'n croesawu gwaith trawsbleidiol yn y Siambr hon i wneud yn siŵr nad anghofir eu lleisiau, a byddaf yn gweithio gyda chyd-Aelodau, lle bynnag yr eisteddant, i wneud yn siŵr y cawn y newidiadau sydd eu hangen i'r cynllun.