English: Thank you. I've listened carefully to the comments made by David Melding today and in the Stage 2 committee session, and also the comments made by Bethan Sayed today, and I genuinely believe that we all want the same outcome here, that where an officer or board member or manager is appointed by the Welsh Ministers to ensure that an RSL complies with the requirement imposed by or under an enactment, that appointment is for a reasonable time and doesn't go on indefinitely, but only until it's appropriate, to ensure the RSL has addressed the issue in question and can sustain its compliance. However, the amendments that we have tabled before us aren't necessary to achieve this, and it might be useful if I explain the context in which these powers might be used, as it will only be used in rare circumstances where there are very serious regulatory issues to address. The regulation team monitor RSLs' performance through continuous oversight and co-regulation, and it is likely, therefore, regulatory involvement would be considerable before a formal intervention of this significance is required. We updated the regulatory framework last year to include regulatory judgments. The judgments provide the regulator's view of the performance of an RSL, which is publicly available, informing tenants, lenders and other stakeholders about their performance. When the regulator has significant concerns about an association, once the facts have been established, a revised judgment can be published with an outline of the issues in question. This has the effect of putting the board and executive on public notice that they are required to tackle serious issues - what might be called 'special measures' in other fields. Funders and other stakeholders are immediately alerted, and the board and executive will be publicly accountable for taking action to resolve issues. The framework and judgments therefore provide a robust regulatory environment, driving improvement, which means that situations where it's necessary to use statutory powers are very rare. However, the power to appoint officers and managers is important in ensuring the interests of tenants and the public money invested in social housing are protected, on the very rare occasions that such interventions might be needed. Therefore, these provisions must work effectively in practice. Concerns have been raised by Mr Melding that the appointment of an officer or manager is currently able to go on indefinitely. [ Interruption.] David Melding, excuse me. [ Laughter. ] This is not the case. Appointments are for such time on such terms as the Welsh Ministers specify. The Welsh Ministers must consider when and how it's appropriate to make an appointment, and they are subject to the public law in taking that action. This means that Welsh Ministers cannot act unreasonably or leave someone in a position where there is no good reason for them to be there. Where an appointment is made, the progress of the situation will be monitored, and the appropriate time to end the appointment will be decided from an informed position. Therefore, I'm satisfied that the existing legislation is effective, and that there are sufficient safeguards to ensure that officers or managers appointed by the Welsh Ministers to deal with a specific problem will not stay in post longer than is necessary or appropriate, and for this reason, the amendments in this group are unnecessary. In addition, I would also like to draw Members' attention to a couple of practical issues with the amendments. In addition to appointments to ensure compliance with requirements by or under an enactment, the amendments in this group also capture other circumstances where an officer might be appointed, for example in place of an officer removed by Welsh Ministers. Appointments made in these circumstances are not linked to a failure to comply with the requirements imposed by or under an enactment, and therefore the trigger for terminating appointments in the amendments would not work in these types of appointment. The amendments also remove the Welsh Minister's ability to renew appointments, which takes away further flexibility to keep an appointee in post during a transition period. Finally, I recall at Stage 2 that David Melding raised concerns that the current position may undermine the ONS's concern, or their eagerness to see that there is a clear independence in the governance of RSLs. However, the purpose of this Bill is not to amend more widely the general regulatory functions of Welsh Ministers, but rather to address those elements of control that led to ONS classifying RSLs within the public sector. The ONS have reviewed the Bill prior to introduction, and stated that if the Bill receives Royal Assent in its current form, the totality of public sector influence exercised through central Government, local authorities and the existence of nomination agreements would not constitute public sector control. Therefore, not only am I satisfied that these amendments are unnecessary to ensure that appointments made by the Welsh Ministers are handled appropriately, I am also satisfied that the period of appointments has not been raised by ONS during their considerations, and the existing legislative provisions in respect of the period of appointments would not affect the ONS reclassification decision. For these reasons, I would ask that the amendments are not supported.
Welsh: Diolch. Rwyf wedi gwrando'n ofalus ar y sylwadau a wnaed gan David Melding heddiw ac yn sesiwn pwyllgor Cyfnod 2, a hefyd ar y sylwadau a wnaed gan Bethan Sayed heddiw, ac rwy'n credu o ddifrif bod ar bob un ohonom ni eisiau gweld yr un canlyniad yn hyn o beth, sef pan benodir swyddog neu aelod o'r Bwrdd neu reolwr gan Weinidogion Cymru i sicrhau bod landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig yn cydymffurfio â gofyniad a osodir gan neu o dan ddeddfiad, bod y penodiad ar gyfer amser rhesymol ac nid yn barhaol, ond dim ond hyd nes ei bod hi'n briodol, i sicrhau bod y landlord cymdeithasol cofrestredig wedi rhoi sylw i'r mater o dan sylw ac y gall barhau i gydymffurfio. Fodd bynnag, nid yw'r gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd ger ein bron yn angenrheidiol er mwyn cyflawni hyn, ac efallai y byddai'n ddefnyddiol pe bawn yn egluro'r cyd-destun ble gellid defnyddio'r pwerau hyn, oherwydd caent eu defnyddio dim ond mewn amgylchiadau prin ble mae materion rheoleiddio difrifol iawn i fynd i'r afael â nhw. Mae'r tîm rheoleiddio yn monitro perfformiad landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig drwy oruchwylio parhaus a chyd-reoleiddio, ac mae'n debygol, felly, y byddai cryn ymwneud rheoleiddio cyn y byddai angen ymyriad ffurfiol o'r arwyddocâd hwn. Fe wnaethom ni ddiweddaru'r fframwaith rheoleiddio y llynedd i gynnwys dyfarniadau rheoleiddiol. Mae'r dyfarniadau yn rhoi barn y rheoleiddiwr ynglŷn â pherfformiad landlord cymdeithasol cofrestredig, sydd ar gael i'r cyhoedd, ac yn hysbysu tenantiaid, benthycwyr a rhanddeiliaid eraill am eu perfformiad. Pan fo gan y rheoleiddiwr bryderon sylweddol am gymdeithas, ar ôl darganfod y ffeithiau, gellir cyhoeddi dyfarniad diwygiedig gydag amlinelliad o'r materion dan sylw. Effaith hyn yw rhoi hysbysiad cyhoeddus i'r bwrdd a'r tîm gweithredol ei bod hi'n ofynnol iddynt fynd i'r afael â materion difrifol - yr hyn y gellid eu galw'n 'fesurau arbennig' mewn meysydd eraill. Caiff cyllidwyr a rhanddeiliaid eraill eu hysbysu ar unwaith, a bydd y bwrdd a'r tîm gweithredol yn atebol i'r cyhoedd am weithredu i ddatrys y materion. Mae'r fframwaith a'r dyfarniadau felly yn sefydlu amgylchiadau rheoleiddio cadarn, sy'n cymell gwelliant, sy'n golygu bod y sefyllfaoedd lle mae angen defnyddio pwerau statudol yn brin iawn. Fodd bynnag, mae'r grym i benodi swyddogion a rheolwyr yn bwysig o ran sicrhau buddiannau tenantiaid ac y diogelir arian cyhoeddus a fuddsoddir mewn tai cymdeithasol, ar yr achlysuron prin iawn y gallai fod angen ymyriadau o'r fath. Felly, rhaid i'r darpariaethau hyn weithio'n effeithiol yn ymarferol. Mynegwyd pryderon gan Mr Melding bod modd ar hyn o bryd penodi swyddog am gyfnod amhenodol. [ Torri ar draws.] David Melding, Esgusodwch fi. [ Chwerthin.] Dydy hynny dim yn wir. Penodir yn unol â'r cyfnodau a'r telerau y mae Gweinidogion Cymru wedi eu pennu. Rhaid i Weinidogion Cymru ystyried pryd a sut mae'n briodol penodi, ac maent yn ddarostyngedig i gyfraith gyhoeddus wrth gymryd y camau hynny. Mae hyn yn golygu na all Gweinidogion Cymru weithredu yn afresymol neu adael rhywun mewn sefyllfa lle nad oes unrhyw reswm da dros iddynt fod yno. Pan benodir rhywun, bydd yn monitro cynnydd y sefyllfa, a phenderfynir ar yr amser priodol i roi terfyn ar y penodiad mewn modd gwybodus. Felly, rwy'n fodlon bod y ddeddfwriaeth bresennol yn effeithiol, a bod digon o fesurau diogelu er mwyn sicrhau y bydd swyddogion neu reolwyr a benodwyd gan Weinidogion Cymru i ymdrin â phroblem benodol ddim yn aros mewn swydd am fwy nag oes angen neu sy'n briodol, ac am y rheswm hwn, mae'r gwelliannau yn y grŵp hwn yn ddiangen. Yn ogystal â hyn, fe hoffwn i hefyd dynnu sylw'r Aelodau at ychydig o faterion ymarferol gyda'r gwelliannau. Yn ogystal â phenodiadau i sicrhau cydymffurfiaeth â gofynion gan neu o dan ddeddfiad, mae'r gwelliannau yn y grŵp hwn hefyd yn nodi'r amgylchiadau eraill lle gellid penodi swyddog, er enghraifft, ble terfynir penodiad swyddog gan Weinidogion Cymru. Nid yw penodiadau a wneir o dan yr amgylchiadau hyn yn gysylltiedig â methiant i gydymffurfio â gofynion a osodir gan neu o dan ddeddfiad, ac felly ni fyddai'r sbardun ar gyfer terfynu penodiadau yn gweithio yn y mathau hyn o benodiadau. Mae'r gwelliannau hefyd yn dileu gallu Gweinidogion Cymru i adnewyddu penodiadau, sy'n dileu'r hyblygrwydd pellach i gadw'r penodai yn ei swydd yn ystod cyfnod pontio. Yn olaf, rwy'n cofio yng Ngham 2 bod David Melding wedi codi pryderon y gallai'r sefyllfa bresennol danseilio pryder y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol, neu eu hawydd i weld bod annibyniaeth amlwg yn y modd y caiff landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig eu llywodraethu. Fodd bynnag, nid diben y Bil hwn yw diwygio swyddogaethau rheoleiddio cyffredinol Gweinidogion Cymru yn fwy eang, ond yn hytrach i fynd i'r afael â'r elfennau hynny o reolaeth a arweiniodd at y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol yn dosbarthu landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig o fewn y sector cyhoeddus. Mae'r Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol wedi adolygu'r Bil cyn ei gyflwyno, a dywedodd os caiff y Bil Gydsyniad Brenhinol ar ei ffurf bresennol, ni fyddai dylanwad y sector cyhoeddus yn ei gyfanrwydd, wedi ei arfer drwy Lywodraeth ganolog, awdurdodau lleol a bodolaeth cytundebau enwebiad, yn gyfystyr â rheolaeth y sector cyhoeddus. Felly, rwyf nid yn unig yn fodlon bod y gwelliannau hyn yn ddiangen i sicrhau bod penodiadau a wneir gan Weinidogion Cymru yn cael eu trin yn briodol, rwyf hefyd yn fodlon nad yw Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol wedi crybwyll cyfnodau penodiadau yn ystod ei hystyriaethau, ac ni fyddai'r darpariaethau deddfwriaethol presennol mewn perthynas â chyfnod penodiadau yn effeithio ar benderfyniad y Swyddfa Ystadegau Gwladol o ran ailddosbarthu. Am y rhesymau hyn, gofynnaf ar ichi beidio â chefnogi'r gwelliannau.