English: Diolch yn fawr, Heledd, and thank you for the support for the work that we're doing, because it is hugely important work. We talked about this as being something that has been developing over the course of a couple of years. We developed a lot of this work in the wake of the Black Lives Matter campaign and the murder of George Floyd and what we saw happen around the world. We've taken that opportunity to build this anti-racist consensus around some of this. I think it's absolutely right that what we say - and I think this was one of the points Tom Giffard was making as well - is that what we are not seeking to do here is rewrite history. History is history, and the facts of history and what happened are there. But, what we can do is we can contextualise our history and we can acknowledge our part in some of the more unsavoury parts of our history, and we can seek to understand the impact that that had on future generations in the way that we commemorate those statues, paintings, or whatever it might be, in public. I think that is absolutely the right thing to do. Like you, I'm only too well aware that there will be voices that are not in line with this and that will not want us to do those things, but that doesn't mean that we should necessarily listen to all those voices, because if what people are trying to perpetuate is racism, then that is not something that I'm interested in listening to. I am interested in listening to why people think we may not want to do things in a particular way, but I'm not interested in listening to racist views and racist voices that perpetuate those inequalities in our society. One very valid point that you have raised is what do we do - because this is not mandatory, this is voluntary - what do we do in those areas where a public body may choose not to take up something? Well, I think one of the things that we have already done, because we've started to do some groundwork on this already, is that we have paid - through the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', we've made quite a bit of funding available to a number of organisations, including small museums, to train their staff and curators to actually understand what the issues are. And just as an example of that, I visited Abergavenny museum relatively recently and the staff there were saying that they had undertaken this training that had been provided, and it was suddenly like lightbulb moments, that they started to understand that the way in which you commemorate and the way in which you display your collections and exhibitions, you tell a story, and that you have a narrative. And they showed me, they had a little cottage kitchen in Abergavenny museum, and there was tea and sugar on the table, and they said, 'We've never thought, in explaining what all of this was in this kitchen, about where tea and sugar came from, and how it arrived on those tables'. So, they are now looking at taking all of that on board, and they were very much welcoming the guidance that will be coming down the road so that they can think very long and hard about how they engage with the local population in correctly interpreting all of that. But as I said, it is not mandatory, and because it is not mandatory, it will not be coming with any funding as such. But what I would say is that it may be possible to build the delivery of objectives into future funding opportunities, linked to the emerging culture strategy - and I know that that's something, Heledd, that you've been very interested in right from the outset, and we're now making significant progress on that - and there have been previous funding collaborations between Cadw and the National Lottery Heritage Fund, supporting some of the reinterpretations around some of the more controversial public monuments, and I would certainly hope that that would be something that we could look at again in the future.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr, Heledd, a diolch am y gefnogaeth i'r gwaith a wnawn, oherwydd mae'n waith hynod o bwysig. Roeddem ni'n sôn am hyn fel rhywbeth sydd wedi bod yn datblygu dros gyfnod o ddwy flynedd. Fe wnaethom ni ddatblygu llawer o'r gwaith yma yn sgil ymgyrch 'Mae Bywydau Du o Bwys' a llofruddiaeth George Floyd a'r hyn welom ni yn digwydd o amgylch y byd. Rydym ni wedi manteisio ar y cyfle hwnnw i adeiladu'r consensws gwrth-hiliol hwn ynghylch rhai o'r agweddau hyn. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n gwbl briodol mai'r hyn yr ydym ni'n ei ddweud - ac rwy'n credu mai dyma un o'r pwyntiau yr oedd Tom Giffard yn eu gwneud hefyd - yr hyn nad ydym yn ceisio ei wneud yma yw ailysgrifennu hanes. Hanes yw hanes, ac mae ffeithiau hanes a'r hyn a ddigwyddodd yn bodoli. Ond, yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud yw cyd-destunoli ein hanes a gallwn ni gydnabod ein rhan yn rhai o rannau mwy annymunol ein hanes, a gallwn geisio deall yr effaith a gafodd hynny ar genedlaethau 'r dyfodol yn y ffordd yr ydym yn coffáu'r cerfluniau, y paentiadau, neu beth bynnag y gallen nhw fod, yn gyhoeddus. Rwy'n credu mai dyna'r peth hollol briodol i'w wneud. Fel chi, rwy'n ymwybodol iawn y bydd yna leisiau nad ydyn nhw'n cyd-fynd â hyn ac na fyddan nhw eisiau i ni wneud y pethau hynny, ond nid yw hynny'n golygu y dylem o reidrwydd wrando ar yr holl leisiau hynny, oherwydd os yr hyn y mae pobl yn ceisio'i wneud yw anfarwoli hiliaeth, yna nid yw hynny'n rhywbeth y mae gennyf i ddiddordeb mewn gwrando arno. Mae gennyf i ddiddordeb mewn gwrando ar pam y mae pobl yn meddwl efallai nad ydym ni eisiau gwneud pethau mewn ffordd benodol, ond does gennyf i ddim diddordeb mewn gwrando ar safbwyntiau hiliol a lleisiau hiliol sy'n parhau â'r anghydraddoldebau hynny yn ein cymdeithas. Un pwynt dilys iawn yr ydych chi wedi ei godi yw beth wnawn ni - oherwydd nid yw hyn yn orfodol, mae hyn yn wirfoddol - beth wnawn ni yn yr ardaloedd hynny lle gall corff cyhoeddus ddewis peidio â gwneud unrhyw beth? Wel, rwy'n credu, un o'r pethau yr ydym ni eisoes wedi'i wneud, oherwydd rydym ni wedi dechrau gwneud rhywfaint o waith caib a rhaw ar hyn yn barod, rydym ni wedi talu - drwy'r 'Cynllun Gweithredu Cymru Wrth-hiliol', rydym ni wedi sicrhau bod tipyn o gyllid ar gael i nifer o sefydliadau, gan gynnwys amgueddfeydd bychain, i hyfforddi eu staff a'u curaduron i ddeall beth yw'r materion mewn gwirionedd. A dim ond fel enghraifft o hynny, ymwelais ag amgueddfa'r Fenni yn gymharol ddiweddar ac roedd y staff yno'n dweud eu bod wedi ymgymryd â'r hyfforddiant hwn a ddarparwyd, ac yn sydyn fel petai'r geiniog yn disgyn, y gwnaethant ddechrau deall mai'r ffordd yr ydych chi'n coffáu a'r ffordd yr ydych chi'n arddangos eich casgliadau a'ch arddangosfeydd, rydych chi'n dweud stori, ac mae gennych chi naratif. A dyma nhw'n dangos i mi, roedd ganddyn nhw gegin bwthyn bach yn amgueddfa'r Fenni, ac roedd te a siwgr ar y bwrdd, a dyma nhw'n dweud, 'Nid ydym ni erioed wedi meddwl, wrth egluro beth oedd y rhain i gyd yn y gegin hon, ynghylch o ble y daeth te a siwgr, a sut gwnaethon nhw gyrraedd y byrddau hynny'. Felly, maen nhw nawr yn ystyried rhoi sylw i hynny i gyd, ac roedden nhw'n croesawu'r canllawiau a gyflwynir er mwyn iddyn nhw feddwl yn ddwys am sut y maen nhw'n ymgysylltu â'r boblogaeth leol wrth ddehongli hynny i gyd yn gywir. Ond fel y dywedais, nid yw'n orfodol, ac oherwydd nad yw'n orfodol, ni fydd yn dod gydag unrhyw gyllid fel y cyfryw. Ond yr hyn y byddwn i'n ei ddweud yw y gallai fod yn bosibl adeiladu'r gwaith o gyflawni amcanion i mewn i gyfleoedd cyllido yn y dyfodol, yn gysylltiedig â'r strategaeth ddiwylliant sy'n dod i'r amlwg - ac rwy'n gwybod bod hynny'n rhywbeth, Heledd, y bu gennych ddiddordeb mawr ynddo o'r cychwyn cyntaf, ac rydym ni bellach yn gwneud cynnydd sylweddol ar hynny - ac mae cydweithio blaenorol o ran cyllid wedi bod rhwng Cadw a Chronfa Treftadaeth y Loteri Genedlaethol, yn cefnogi rhywfaint o'r ailddehongli ynghylch rhai o'r henebion cyhoeddus mwy dadleuol, a byddwn i'n sicr yn gobeithio y byddai hynny'n rhywbeth y gallem ni edrych arno eto yn y dyfodol.