English: Despite the Minister's assurance at Stage 3 that, in reality, parents who take up the offer would, weekly, receive 15 to 20 hours of childcare, meaning a maximum additional charge of £13.25 per week, this still adds up to £636 per year. Therefore, we still support the position of Care Inspectorate Wales, which noted that additional charges could make the offer unaffordable for some families who are on low incomes. We've also heard emerging evidence that, in one pilot area, some childcare providers had started to charge parents when they had not done so previously. The Welsh Government's own evaluation of the offer has shown that 15 per cent of childcare providers interviewed had introduced additional charges as a result of this offer. Worse still is that some childcare providers whose fee was higher than the £4.50 per hour provided by the offer have even introduced additional charges to make up for a shortfall in revenue. Now, obviously, we welcome the Minister's responses at Stages 2 and 3, which stated that guidance on additional charges would be revised to strengthen the Welsh Government's position ahead of national roll-out. It is also significant that the draft administrative scheme includes references to new guidelines for local authorities on additional charges, and we note the Welsh Government's efforts in warning providers not to charge top-up fees for three to four-year-olds, with the threat of removal from the offer if this is breached. However, we still remain concerned that the definition of 'childcare' so heavily relied upon by the Minister within the draft administrative scheme, which has been ably described in more detail by my colleague Suzy Davies AM, actually includes supervised activities. Charges for these, we argue, should therefore be paid for under the offer. Furthermore, the first evaluation for early implementers has clearly shown that providers who have introduced additional fees are actually unaware that applying charges in this way is not part of the Welsh Government guidance. The evaluation also notes that, in some cases, the additional charges actually replace some of the affordability barriers that the offer aims to remove. Whilst the draft administrative scheme mentions that additional charges may not be imposed for the provision of funded childcare, the ancillary charges are still present, meaning that there is a way for childcare providers to make up the difference. Nor are the guidelines provided, meaning that the National Assembly for Wales is currently unable to assess whether this could be prevented from happening. Therefore, I urge all Members here today to vote in favour of this amendment. Not only would you be being fair to parents on low incomes who are striving to cover childcare costs, but it would help to eliminate some of the barriers to employment that have, sadly, been incidentally caused by the offer. Now, amendment 33 requests that the Welsh Government publish and monitor information relating to additional fees, including snacks. As explained under amendment 13, charges for extra provisions can prevent some parents from taking up the offer and having to find up to £1,800 a year should they be charged full price for 30 hours a week, 48 weeks per year. However - and this will be a running theme throughout the majority of these amendments I have tabled - all of the Minister's assurances here are unable to be scrutinised or debated upon at a later stage by the National Assembly for Wales due to the fact that they are being left out of this Bill. We are re-tabling this amendment, as, by refusing it at Stage 2 on the basis of creating additional burdens on providers and local authorities, the Minister contradicted his own assertions at Stage 1. Moreover, the inclusion of guidelines on additional charges within the draft administrative scheme, as well as the fact that the Minister has said that he would take action if top-up fees are charged for three to four-year-olds by removing childcare providers from delivering the offer, suggests that monitoring of potential barriers will take place. Therefore, data collection has to be used to underpin this. The early indications from the Welsh Government's own evaluation is that some childcare providers have admitted to charging additional fees since the offer was introduced, and we believe firmly that, as such, a duty to publish information is very necessary to ensure that a robust review is undertaken. Therefore, the Minister must provide this institution with the opportunity to see the data the Welsh Government will inevitably collect on additional charges, rather than simply relegating it to a possibility under the administrative scheme's operation. And I urge Members, again, to vote with your conscience and vote accordingly. Amendment 32 requires the Welsh Government to publish and monitor the hourly rates paid for childcare and the foundation phase elements of the offer. As currently enacted, the Welsh Government's 30-hour-a-week childcare offer is maintained on a dual stream - the foundation phase nursery early years education and the childcare offer - with at least 10 hours a week to be funded by early years provision through local government revenue support grants. Now, we heard during Stage 1 that a dual setting can create unintended consequences, such as transportation between the provider offering childcare and early years education. However, of particular concern is that there is a huge difference between the hourly rates paid for non-maintained early years education and the rates the Welsh Government is intending to pay for the childcare offer, with the offer providing substantially more than what is paid to early years education and foundation phase nurseries. The offer grants providers with £4.50 per hour for childcare, which is much higher than the £1.49 to £3.50 per hour estimated by Cwlwm and the WLGA to be offered to early years providers. Therefore, it is clear that these variations could have a negative impact on early years education by crowding out providers. This has been borne out in the pilot stages by the evaluation. Such variations could have a negative impact on early years education - something that was actually admitted to by the Minister at Stage 1. So, through such disparity in payment, the WLGA also stated to the Children, Young People and Education Committee that concerns had already been raised in pilot areas that early years education could become crowded out because of the childcare element of this offer. I have re-tabled this amendment as the Minister's assertion that it would be too onerous on Welsh Ministers does not outweigh the importance of scrutinising the impact of the offer on early years and foundation phase provision. We are also aware of the Cabinet Secretary for Education's promise at Stage 1, but we are looking closely at the possible impact on foundation phase provision, including structural and financial issues that might impact on effective delivery and the quality of provision. The publishing of hourly rates, we still contend, is an important part of this evaluation. Thank you.
Welsh: Er gwaethaf sicrwydd gan y Gweinidog yng Nghyfnod 3 y byddai rhieni sy'n manteisio ar y cynnig yn cael 15 i 20 awr yr wythnos o ofal plant mewn gwirionedd, gan olygu uchafswm tâl ychwanegol o £13.25 yr wythnos, mae hyn yn dal i fod yn £636 y flwyddyn. Felly, rydym yn parhau i gefnogi safbwynt Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru, a nododd y gallai taliadau ychwanegol wneud y cynnig yn anfforddiadwy i rai teuluoedd ar incwm isel. Rydym hefyd wedi clywed tystiolaeth sy'n dod i'r amlwg mewn un ardal beilot fod rhai darparwyr gofal plant wedi dechrau codi tâl ar rieni pan nad oeddent wedi gwneud hynny'n flaenorol. Mae gwerthusiad Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun o'r cynnig wedi dangos bod 15 y cant o ddarparwyr gofal plant a gafodd eu cyfweld wedi cyflwyno taliadau ychwanegol o ganlyniad i'r cynnig hwn. Yn waeth byth roedd rhai darparwyr gofal plant yr oedd eu taliadau'n uwch na'r £4.50 yr awr a ddarperir gan y cynnig wedi cyflwyno taliadau ychwanegol i wrthbwyso diffyg yn y refeniw. Nawr, yn amlwg, rydym yn croesawu ymatebion y Gweinidog yng Nghyfnodau 2 a 3 a nododd y byddai'r canllawiau ar daliadau ychwanegol yn cael eu diwygio i gryfhau safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru cyn cyflwyno'r cynllun yn genedlaethol. Mae hefyd yn arwyddocaol fod y cynllun gweinyddol drafft yn cynnwys cyfeiriadau at ganllawiau newydd i awdurdodau lleol ar ffioedd ychwanegol, a nodwn ymdrechion Llywodraeth Cymru i rybuddio darparwyr i beidio â chodi ffioedd ychwanegol ar gyfer plant tair i bedair oed, gyda'r bygythiad o gael eu gwahardd o'r cynnig am fethiant i gydymffurfio. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn parhau'n bryderus fod y diffiniad o 'ofal plant' y mae'r Gweinidog yn pwyso cymaint arno yn y cynllun gweinyddol drafft, a ddisgrifiwyd yn fedrus mewn mwy o fanylder gan fy nghyd-Aelod, Suzy Davies AC, yn cynnwys gweithgareddau o dan oruchwyliaeth mewn gwirionedd. Rydym yn dadlau felly y dylai taliadau a godir am y rhain gael eu talu'n rhan o'r cynnig. At hynny, mae'r gwerthusiad cyntaf ar gyfer gweithredwyr cynnar wedi dangos yn glir nad yw darparwyr sydd wedi cyflwyno taliadau ychwanegol yn gwybod nad yw gosod taliadau yn y modd hwn yn rhan o ganllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae'r gwerthusiad hefyd yn nodi, mewn rhai achosion, fod y taliadau ychwanegol mewn gwirionedd yn cymryd lle rhai o'r rhwystrau i fforddiadwyedd y mae'r cynnig yn anelu i'w dileu. Er bod y cynllun gweinyddol drafft yn sôn na chaniateir gosod taliadau ychwanegol ar gyfer darparu gofal plant a gyllidir, mae'r taliadau atodol yn dal yn bresennol, sy'n golygu bod modd i ddarparwyr gofal plant adennill y gwahaniaeth. Ac ni ddarparir y canllawiau, sy'n golygu nad yw Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru ar hyn o bryd yn gallu asesu a fyddai modd atal hyn rhag digwydd. Felly, rwy'n annog yr holl Aelodau yma heddiw i bleidleisio o blaid y gwelliant hwn. Nid yn unig y byddech yn bod yn deg wrth rieni ar incwm isel sy'n ymdrechu i dalu costau gofal plant, ond byddai o gymorth i ddileu rhai o'r rhwystrau i gyflogaeth a achosir gan y cynnig, yn anffodus. Nawr, mae gwelliant 33 yn gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru gyhoeddi a monitro gwybodaeth sy'n ymwneud â thaliadau ychwanegol, gan gynnwys byrbrydau. Fel yr eglurwyd o dan welliant 13, gall taliadau am ddarpariaethau ychwanegol atal rhai rhieni rhag manteisio ar y cynnig a gorfod dod o hyd i hyd at £1,800 y flwyddyn pe bai gofyn iddynt dalu pris llawn am 30 awr yr wythnos, 48 wythnos y flwyddyn. Fodd bynnag - a bydd hon yn thema sy'n rhedeg drwy'r rhan fwyaf o'r gwelliannau a gyflwynais - nid oes modd i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru graffu ar, neu ddadlau ynglŷn ag unrhyw sicrwydd a roddir gan y Gweinidog yma ar gam diweddarach yn sgil y ffaith eu bod yn cael eu hepgor o'r Bil hwn. Rydym yn ailgyflwyno'r gwelliant hwn, am fod y Gweinidog, drwy ei wrthod yng Nghyfnod 2 ar sail creu baich ychwanegol ar awdurdodau lleol a darparwyr, wedi gwrthddweud ei haeriadau ei hun yng Nghyfnod 1. Yn ogystal, mae cynnwys canllawiau ar daliadau ychwanegol mewn cynllun gweinyddol drafft, yn ogystal â'r ffaith bod y Gweinidog wedi dweud y byddai'n rhoi camau ar waith os codir taliadau ychwanegol ar gyfer plant tair i bedair oed drwy wahardd darparwyr gofal plant rhag cael darparu'r cynnig, yn awgrymu y bydd rhwystrau posibl yn cael eu monitro. Felly, rhaid defnyddio trefniadau i gasglu data er mwyn ategu hyn. Mae'r arwyddion cynnar o werthusaid Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun yn dangos bod rhai darparwyr gofal plant wedi cyfaddef eu bod yn codi taliadau ychwanegol ers i'r cynnig gael ei gyflwyno, a chredwn yn gryf, fel y cyfryw, fod gwir angen dyletswydd i gyhoeddi gwybodaeth er mwyn sicrhau y cynhelir adolygiad cadarn. Felly, rhaid i'r Gweinidog roi cyfle i'r sefydliad hwn weld y data y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn anochel yn ei gasglu ar daliadau ychwanegol, yn hytrach na'i israddio'n bosibilrwydd o dan weithrediad y cynllun gweinyddol. Ac rwy'n annog yr Aelodau eto i bleidleisio gyda'ch cydwybod a phleidleisio'n unol â hynny. Mae gwelliant 32 yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i Lywodraeth Cymru gyhoeddi a monitro'r cyfraddau fesul awr a delir am ofal plant ac elfennau cyfnod sylfaen y cynnig. Fel y caiff ei weithredu ar hyn o bryd, caiff cynnig gofal plant 30 awr yr wythnos Llywodraeth Cymru ei gynnal ar ffrwd ddeuol - addysg feithrin cyfnod sylfaen y blynyddoedd cynnar a'r cynnig gofal plant - gydag o leiaf 10 awr yr wythnos i'w ariannu gan ddarpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar drwy grantiau cymorth refeniw llywodraeth leol. Nawr, clywsom yn ystod Cyfnod 1 y gall lleoliad deuol greu canlyniadau anfwriadol, megis cludiant rhwng y darparwr sy'n cynnig gofal plant ac addysg y blynyddoedd cynnar. Fodd bynnag, testun pryder arbennig yw nad oes gwahaniaeth enfawr rhwng y cyfraddau fesul awr a delir am addysg y blynyddoedd cynnar nas cynhelir a'r cyfraddau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn bwriadu eu talu am y cynnig gofal plant, gyda'r cynnig yn darparu cryn dipyn yn fwy nag a delir tuag at addysg y blynyddoedd cynnar a meithrinfeydd y cyfnod sylfaen. Mae'r cynnig yn rhoi £4.50 yr awr i ddarparwyr am ofal plant, sy'n llawer uwch na'r £1.49 i £3.50 yr awr y mae Cwlwm a Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru yn amcangyfrif ei fod yn cael ei gynnig i ddarparwyr y blynyddoedd cynnar. Felly, mae'n amlwg y gallai'r amrywiadau hyn effeithio'n negyddol ar addysg y blynyddoedd cynnar drwy wthio darparwyr allan. Mae'r gwerthusiad wedi gweld hyn yn digwydd yn y camau peilot. Gallai amrywiadau o'r fath effeithio'n negyddol ar addysg y blynyddoedd cynnar - rhywbeth a gyfaddefodd y Gweinidog yng Nghyfnod 1 mewn gwirionedd. Felly, drwy wahaniaeth o'r fath yn y taliadau, nododd y CLlLC hefyd wrth y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg fod pryderon eisoes wedi'u mynegi mewn ardaloedd peilot y gallai addysg y blynyddoedd cynnar gael ei gwthio allan oherwydd elfen gofal plant y cynnig hwn. Rwyf wedi ailgyflwyno'r gwelliant hwn fel nad yw haeriad y Gweinidog y byddai'n rhy feichus ar Weinidogion Cymru yn gorbwyso pwysigrwydd craffu ar effaith y cynnig ar ddarpariaeth y blynyddoedd cynnar a'r cyfnod sylfaen. Rydym yn ymwybodol hefyd o addewid Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Addysg yng Nghyfnod 1, ond rydym yn edrych yn ofalus ar yr effaith bosibl ar ddarpariaeth y cyfnod sylfaen, gan gynnwys materion strwythurol ac ariannol a allai effeithio ar gyflawniad effeithiol ac ansawdd y ddarpariaeth. Rydym yn dal i ddadlau bod cyhoeddi cyfraddau fesul awr yn rhan bwysig o'r gwerthusiad hwn. Diolch.