English: I'm grateful to the Minister for his statement and to see the progress that's been made in this important area. I welcome what the Minister has to say about the next stage, looking at more cross-regional working and looking at national scaling up. I won't, Dirprwy Lywydd, trouble the Assembly with some of the questions that have already been answered with regard to points that Angela Burns has made, but I would like to explore a little further with the Minister this whole scaling up and rolling out issue, because this has, I think, been one of our problems in Wales, not just in the health and social care system; that successive Welsh Governments have invested quite a lot of money in innovative programmes, where they've come up with some really good projects and really positive working, but we seem to fall down at that point when we need to translate that into a national programme and national transformation. Now, the Minister quite rightly in his statement refers to initial progress being a bit slower than he'd expected, and that's understandable, I think, and he mentions that there were recruitment and procurement issues. I wonder if the Minister can tell us this afternoon a little bit more about what some of those were, or if it's more appropriate if he writes to us, because I think it's very important that we understand what those are in order to be able to scrutinise how the work moves forward. Because if there were recruitment and procurement issues in the early stages, one would expect that those will re-occur or may re-occur when upscaling and moving towards national programmes takes place. So, I'd be interested to hear a little bit more about what those actually were. The Minister also refers to the clarity that he's always given, in fairness, that this is a one-off set of money, that it's to give people an opportunity to innovate, and that he will expect long-term delivery of the learning through core budgets. I think we would all expect that. But I wonder if the Minister can tell us a a little bit more about how he intends to work with the national health bodies and, indeed, of course, very importantly, the regional partnerships and social services to ensure that that actually does happen. I fully appreciate that the Minister is not in a position yet to tell us what lessons have been learned from the programme, because the evaluations aren't finished, so it would be foolish of us to be asking for that. But I would imagine that there are some issues beginning to emerge, there are some patterns beginning to emerge. I very much welcome, by the way, the Minister's commitment, when you've got a whole year of evaluations, to share those with committee members, I'm sure we'll all be very grateful to see those, and it might be useful to have a statement to the Assembly at that time, in case there are Members who are not on the health committee who also want to contribute. So, if we can hear a little bit more about what the barriers have been, a little bit more about the Minister's thinking in terms of, when the lessons are learned, how that's going to be driven through the system, because the Minister's statement itself says that that can be difficult. And the Minister refers to the transformation funding team being available to support regions as they develop the bids for the next round, which is obviously very helpful. Does the Minister intend that that support will then be in place, or some sort of similar support, when we come to the perhaps more difficult point where the transformation funding money is over, the lessons are learned, and that needs to be mainstreamed, if you like, needs to become part of core business. Because that is, as I've said, where we've tended to fall down in the past. This is a really important innovation. The Minister knows he's had cross-party support for what he's trying to do with it. But we need to make sure that this is not going to be another one of those excellent innovative programmes that then hits the buffers when health bodies, and indeed social services and all those who sit around on the partnership boards, need to change the way they look at their core budgets when this very welcome pot of money has run its course.
Welsh: Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad ac i weld y cynnydd a wnaed yn y maes pwysig hwn. Rwy'n croesawu'r hyn sydd gan y Gweinidog i'w ddweud am y cam nesaf, sef edrych ar weithio mwy traws-ranbarthol ac edrych ar ehangu cenedlaethol. Ni wnaf, Dirprwy Lywydd, boeni'r Cynulliad gyda rhai o'r cwestiynau sydd eisoes wedi eu hateb o ran sylwadau a wnaeth Angela Burns, ond hoffwn ymchwilio ychydig ymhellach gyda'r Gweinidog i'r holl broses o ehangu a chyflwyno'r mater hwn, oherwydd bu hyn yn un o'n problemau yng Nghymru, mi gredaf, nid dim ond yn y system iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol; bod Llywodraethau olynol yng Nghymru wedi buddsoddi cryn dipyn o arian mewn rhaglenni arloesol, lle maen nhw wedi cyflwyno rhai prosiectau da iawn a gwaith cadarnhaol iawn, ond ymddengys ein bod yn methu ar yr adeg honno pan fo angen inni droi hynny'n rhaglen genedlaethol ac yn drawsnewid cenedlaethol. Nawr, mae'r Gweinidog yn briodol iawn yn ei ddatganiad yn cyfeirio at gynnydd ychydig yn arafach nag y disgwyliai, ac mae hynny'n ddealladwy, rwy'n credu, ac mae'n crybwyll bod problemau recriwtio a chaffael. Tybed a wnaiff y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym ni y prynhawn yma ychydig mwy ynghylch beth oedd rhai o'r elfennau hynny, neu a yw'n fwy priodol os yw'n ysgrifennu atom, oherwydd credaf ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn deall beth yw'r elfennau hynny er mwyn gallu craffu ar y modd y mae'r gwaith yn mynd rhagddo. Oherwydd pe bai problemau recriwtio a chaffael yn ystod y camau cynnar, byddai rhywun yn disgwyl y bydd y rhai hynny'n ailymddangos neu efallai'n ailymddangos pan fydd ehangu a symud tuag at raglenni cenedlaethol. Felly, byddai diddordeb gennyf glywed ychydig mwy am beth oedd yr elfennau hynny mewn gwirionedd. Mae'r Gweinidog hefyd yn cyfeirio at yr eglurder a roddodd erioed, a bod yn deg, mai un gronfa arian benodol a geir yma, sef ei bod yn rhoi cyfle i bobl arloesi, ac y bydd yn disgwyl cyflwyno'r dysgu drwy gyllidebau craidd yn yr hirdymor. Rwy'n credu y byddem i gyd yn disgwyl hynny. Ond tybed a wnaiff y Gweinidog ddweud wrthym ni ychydig mwy ynghylch sut y mae'n bwriadu gweithio gyda'r cyrff iechyd gwladol ac, yn wir, wrth gwrs, yn bwysig iawn, y partneriaethau rhanbarthol a'r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol i sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd mewn gwirionedd. Rwy'n cydnabod yn llawn nad yw'r Gweinidog mewn sefyllfa eto i ddweud wrthym ni pa wersi a ddysgwyd o'r rhaglen, gan nad yw'r gwerthusiadau wedi'u cwblhau, felly byddai'n ffôl inni ofyn am hynny. Ond byddwn yn dychmygu bod rhai materion yn dechrau dod i'r amlwg, bod rhai patrymau'n dechrau dod i'r amlwg. Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr, gyda llaw, ymrwymiad y Gweinidog, pan fydd gennych chi flwyddyn gyfan o werthusiadau, i rannu'r rhai hynny ag aelodau'r pwyllgor, rwy'n siŵr y byddwn i gyd yn ddiolchgar iawn o weld y rhai hynny, ac efallai y byddai'n ddefnyddiol cael datganiad i'r Cynulliad bryd hynny, rhag ofn bod Aelodau nad ydynt ar y pwyllgor iechyd hefyd eisiau cyfrannu. Felly, os cawn glywed ychydig mwy ynghylch beth oedd y rhwystrau, ychydig mwy am feddylfryd y Gweinidog o ran, pan ddysgir y gwersi, sut y caiff hynny ei ledaenu drwy'r system, oherwydd dywed datganiad y Gweinidog ei hun y gall hynny fod yn anodd. Ac mae'r Gweinidog yn cyfeirio bod y tîm cyllid trawsnewid ar gael i gefnogi rhanbarthau wrth iddynt ddatblygu'r cynigion ar gyfer y cylch nesaf, sy'n amlwg yn ddefnyddiol iawn. A yw'r Gweinidog yn bwriadu y bydd y cymorth hwnnw ar gael, neu ryw fath o gefnogaeth debyg, pan ddeuwn at y ar adeg anoddach efallai lle mae'r arian ar gyfer y trawsnewid ar ben, mae'r gwersi wedi'u dysgu, ac mae angen prif-ffrydio hynny, os mynnwch chi, mae angen i hynny ddod yn rhan o arferion craidd. Oherwydd dyna, fel y dywedais, lle'r ydym ni wedi tueddu i fethu yn y gorffennol. Mae hyn yn rhywbeth arloesol pwysig iawn. Mae'r Gweinidog yn gwybod ei fod wedi cael cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i'r hyn y mae'n ceisio ei wneud ag ef. Ond mae angen inni sicrhau na fydd hyn yn un arall o'r rhaglenni arloesol rhagorol hynny sydd wedyn yn mynd i'r gwellt pan fo angen i gyrff iechyd, ac yn wir gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a phawb sy'n eistedd ar y byrddau partneriaeth, newid y ffordd y maen nhw'n edrych ar eu cyllidebau craidd pan fydd y gronfa arian hynod dderbyniol hwn wedi dod i ben.