English: That is so true, but I don't see the signs of the kind of revolution I would like to see. I remember, after a recent statement, I accused the Minister of having missed a nought from the end of a figure that was being spent on preventative measures, and I mean it. We have to aim, ultimately, to spend less on healthcare, and the way of achieving that is that we are a healthier nation because large sums will have been spent on the preventative agenda in all of its forms, but also that there is a change of mindset around the kind of health, care and well-being systems that we're looking for. So, yes, there's no disagreement on the importance of the preventative. I wouldn't disagree with the second of the three principles: equality. That's crucially important. And in a series of recent interventions, Plaid Cymru has been emphasising the way in which inequalities have been getting worse, rather than improving, here in Wales. And that third principle - in terms of enabling the individual to take responsibility and to make the right decisions - of course that's important, but there are so many people who can't make the right decisions because of the circumstances that they find themselves in, because inequalities lock them into a vicious cycle, if you like. So, we need to identify the blockages. We need to identify what prevents the Government from truly operating in an integrated manner and bringing all of the elements of governance - housing, health, education, socioeconomic issues, all of those - together, and the solutions to those don't exist within a framework of this kind, although the objectives are there. So, the one question is: does the Minister agree with me that it is impossible to improve outcomes unless we eradicate the inequalities that are holding us back as a nation and as a society?
Welsh: Mae hynny mor, mor wir, ond dydw i ddim yn gweld yr arwyddion o'r math o chwildro y buaswn i'n licio ei weld. Dwi'n cofio, ar ôl datganiad diweddar, gwnes i gyhuddo'r Gweinidog o fod wedi colli nought oddi ar ddiwedd rhyw ffigur oedd yn cael ei wario ar fesurau ataliol, a dwi'n ei feddwl o. Hynny ydy, mae'n rhaid inni anelu yn y pen draw at allu gwario llai ar ofal iechyd, a'r ffordd o gyrraedd y nod honno ydy ein bod ni'n genedl iachach oherwydd bod yna symiau rhyfeddol o fawr wedi cael eu gwario ar yr ataliol ym mhob ffurff, ond hefyd bod yna newid meddwl am y fath o gyfundrefn iechyd a gofal a llesiant rydyn ni'n chwilio amdani hi. Felly, ie, does yna ddim anghytuno ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd yr ataliol. Does yna ddim anghytuno gen i ynglŷn â'r ail o'r tair egwyddor: cyfartaledd rhwng pobl. Mae hynny'n hollol, hollol allweddol. A dwi'n meddwl, mewn cyfres o ymyriadau yn ddiweddar, mae Plaid Cymru wedi bod yn pwysleisio'r modd mae anghydraddoldebau wedi bod yn gwaethygu, nid yn gwella, yma yng Nghymru. A'r drydedd egwyddor yna - rhoi'r gallu i'r unigolyn i gymryd cyfrifoldeb ac i wneud y penderfyniadau iawn - wrth gwrs mae honno'n bwysig, ond mae yna gymaint o bobl sy'n methu â gwneud y penderfyniadau iawn oherwydd yr amgylchiadau maen nhw wedi canfod eu hunain ynddyn nhw, oherwydd bod anghydraddoldebau yn eu cloi nhw mewn cylch dieflig, os liciwch chi. Felly, mae eisiau adnabod lle mae'r blockage. Mae angen gallu adnabod beth sy'n atal y Llywodraeth go iawn rhag gallu gweithredu mewn ffordd integredig a dod â'r holl elfennau o lywodraethiant - tai, iechyd, addysg, cymdeithas, economi, y cyfan - at ei gilydd, a dydy'r ateb i hynny ddim mewn fframwaith o'r math yma, er bod yr amcanion yna. Felly, yr un cwestiwn: ydy'r Gweinidog yn cytuno efo fi ei bod hi'n amhosib gwella'r allbynau heb gael gwared ar yr anghydraddoldebau sy'n ein dal ni nôl fel cenedl a chymdeithas ar hyn o bryd?