English: I thank the Member for that, but when I met with individuals who represent businesses in Europe, they were not looking for the softer solutions, because they didn't know which direction they were going in. Therefore I do believe that technology will eventually get there - not tomorrow, not next year, but probably in about five years' time, and that's a long while to wait to try and do some trade with European Union nations. Anyway, let's go back to the issue. If we want to look, perhaps, at how border checks work, go to Norway - we've mentioned Norway many times in this Chamber - and look at Norway's customs service. It has been expanded in recent decades to address the issues, but they still have difficulties in actually managing the borders. For example - and I do apologise to Norwegians if I get this pronunciation wrong - at Svinesund, which handles 70 per cent of the cross-border flows of commercial traffic between Norway and Sweden, all commercial traffic - all commercial traffic - is stopped. Every bit of it. Checks are made on both goods and drivers. Now, that's the relationship in Norway. These delay lorries. They delay the operation and therefore the just-in-time agenda will be delayed as a consequence. It might not be very much; it might be, as some say, an average of four minutes. Some lorries will be delayed longer. You put four minutes on per lorry in Holyhead and see the queues you'll get. You put two minutes on in Dover, and the recommendation from Dover port is you'll have a 10-mile queue. That's the reality of what customs union failure will do.
Welsh: Diolch i'r Aelod am hynny, ond pan gyfarfûm ag unigolion sy'n cynrychioli busnesau yn Ewrop, nid oeddent yn chwilio am atebion mwy meddal, oherwydd nad oeddent yn gwybod i ba gyfeiriad yr oeddent yn mynd. Felly rwy'n credu y bydd technoleg yn cyrraedd yno yn y pen draw - nid yfory, nid y flwyddyn nesaf, ond ymhen tua pum mlynedd mae'n debyg, ac mae hwnnw'n amser hir i aros i geisio masnachu â gwledydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd. Beth bynnag, beth am ddychwelyd at y broblem. Os ydym am edrych, efallai, ar sut y mae gwiriadau ffiniau'n gweithio, ewch i Norwy - rydym wedi crybwyll Norwy droeon yn y Siambr hon - ac edrychwch ar wasanaeth tollau Norwy. Mae wedi cael ei ehangu yn y degawdau diwethaf i fynd i'r afael â'r problemau, ond maent yn cael anhawster o hyd i reoli'r ffiniau mewn gwirionedd. Er enghraifft - ac rwy'n ymddiheuro i Norwyaid os wyf yn ynganu hwn yn anghywir - yn Svinesund, sy'n ymdrin â 70 y cant o'r llif traffig masnachol trawsffiniol rhwng Norwy a Sweden, caiff pob traffig masnachol - pob traffig masnachol - ei stopio. Pob elfen ohono. Cynhelir gwiriadau ar nwyddau a gyrwyr. Nawr, dyna'r berthynas yn Norwy. Mae'r rhain yn peri oedi i lorïau. Maent yn oedi gweithredu ac felly bydd oedi'n digwydd yn yr agenda mewn union bryd o ganlyniad i hynny. Efallai na fydd yn llawer o amser; efallai mai pedair munud ar gyfartaledd fydd yr oedi yn ôl yr hyn y mae rhai'n ei ddweud. Bydd rhai lorïau'n wynebu mwy o oedi. Os rhowch bedair munud ar bob lori yng Nghaergybi fe welwch y ciwiau a gewch. Rhowch ddwy funud ar bob lori yn Dover, a'r argymhelliad gan borthladd Dover yw y bydd gennych giw 10 milltir o hyd. Dyna realiti'r hyn y bydd methiant o ran undeb tollau yn ei wneud.