techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: Yes. Well, I think what I've already said, namely that the formal duty is placed on the commission - that is an important development. And one of the important themes in moving forward, as I suggested earlier, was to formalise that interrelationship between the work of the coleg, the National Centre for Learning Welsh and the commission. The coleg was established a decade ago now, because there was a need that was identified for a strategic planning body for the higher education sector initially, and then that responsibility expanded very recently, around 18 months ago, to include the FE and apprenticeship sectors. So, we're just starting to work in those areas. And the role of the coleg, as the Minister mentioned in the evidence session for this committee last week, extends beyond the commission's responsibilities - there's initial teacher training, which lies with the Government and the Education Workforce Council; there's health and care provision, with HEIW. The Minister has also talked about placing the coleg 's status on a statutory basis when the Welsh-medium education Bill will be introduced in due course. So, there are many other things going on around this, so formalising that relationship will be vital, but also noting that we are very eager to ensure that establishing the commission and the process that emanates from it won't slow the momentum of the work that needs to be done with regard to Welsh-medium education.
Welsh: Ie. Wel, dwi'n credu bod yr hyn rôn i wedi'i ddweud yn barod, sef bod y ddyletswydd ffurfiol yna'n cael ei rhoi ar y comisiwn - mae hwnna'n ddatblygiad pwysig. Ac un o'r themâu pwysig wrth inni symud ymlaen, fel yr awgrymais i'n gynharach, oedd ffurfioli, wedyn, y cyswllt rhwng gwaith y coleg ac yn wir y Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg a'r comisiwn. Fe gafodd y coleg ei sefydlu ddegawd yn ôl bellach oherwydd bod yna angen wedi cael ei adnabod am gorff cynllunio strategol ar gyfer y sector addysg uwch i ddechrau, ac wedyn fe wnaeth y cyfrifoldeb hwnnw ehangu yn ddiweddar iawn, rhyw 18 mis yn ôl, i'r sectorau addysg bellach a phrentisiaethau. Megis dechrau gweithio yn y meysydd hynny yr ydyn ni. Ac mae rôl y coleg hefyd, fel y soniodd y Gweinidog yn y sesiwn dystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor hwn yr wythnos diwethaf, yn ymestyn y tu hwnt i gyfrifoldebau'r comisiwn - addysg gychwynnol athrawon, er enghraifft, sy'n gorwedd gyda'r Llywodraeth a'r cyngor gweithlu; darpariaeth iechyd a gofal gyda HEIW. Mae'r Gweinidog wedi sôn hefyd am osod statws y coleg ar sail statudol pan fydd y ddeddf addysg Gymraeg yn cael ei chyflwyno maes o law. Felly, mae yna lot o bethau eraill yn mynd ymlaen o gwmpas hyn, ac felly fe fydd ffurfioli'r berthynas yn allweddol, ond hefyd nodi ein bod ni'n awyddus iawn i sicrhau nad yw sefydlu'r comisiwn a'r broses fydd yn deillio o hynny yn arafu momentwm y gwaith sydd angen ei wneud o ran addysg Gymraeg.
English: Just very briefly. What Aled says is entirely correct in terms of the current and historic situation in the FE sector, with some exceptions, of course. But the plan that the coleg has developed jointly with other partners and with the Welsh Government is an ambitious one, and it does try to get to grips with this by providing that Welsh-medium provision in the context of the language strategy on some level to every learner. So, whatever their language skills, there will be an opportunity for everyone, be they a learner or even if they don't have any Welsh at all, to develop skills, and there'll be opportunities for those who are more fluent and confident too to be able to receive training through the medium of Welsh. What is vital is resources, and we welcome very much the commitment in the programme for government of the new Government, and the agreement that was referred to, to do that. So, we are in the midst of discussions with officials about budgets at the moment. We accept there are major challenges in this area, but there are also plans afoot to get to grips with them.
Welsh: Ond yn fyr. Yn amlwg, mae'r hyn mae Aled yn ei ddweud yn hollol wir am y sefyllfa gyfredol a hanesyddol yn y sector addysg bellach, gyda rhai eithriadau. Mae'r cynllun mae'r coleg wedi ei ddatblygu ar y cyd gyda phartneriaid eraill a Llywodraeth Cymru yn un uchelgeisiol, dwi ddim yn dweud llai, ac mae'n ceisio mynd i'r afael â hyn trwy gynnig darpariaeth Gymraeg yng nghyd-destun y strategaeth iaith ar ryw lefel i bob dysgwr. Felly, beth bynnag yw eu sgiliau iaith, fe fydd yna gyfle i bawb, boed nhw yn ddysgwyr, neu hyd yn oed yn ddi-Gymraeg, i ddatblygu sgiliau a chyfle i'r rheini sy'n fwy hyderus ac yn fwy rhugl i gael derbyn hyfforddiant trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Yr hyn sy'n allweddol i hynny ydy adnoddau, a dŷn ni'n croesawu'n fawr yr ymrwymiad yn rhaglen lywodraethol y Llywodraeth newydd, a hefyd yn y cytundeb y cyfeiriwyd ato, i wneud hynny. Felly dŷn ni yng nghanol y trafodaethau gyda'r swyddogion ynglŷn â chyllidebau ar hyn o bryd. Felly rydym yn derbyn bod yna heriau mawr fan hyn, ond hefyd fod yna gynlluniau ar droed i ddechrau mynd i afael â nhw.
English: Can you hear me now?
Welsh: Ydych chi'n fy nghlywed i?
English: I think that the Bill, noting that there are some things that we would be eager to be strengthened, does give a great deal of potential and influence to the commission to influence and to implement some of the Welsh Government's ambitions with regard to Welsh-medium and bilingual provision. A great deal depends not so much on the Bill itself, but on how the commission will be established; what the attitude and approach of the chair, the members, the chief executive and officials will be, and how they will take action and go about collaborating with partners in this particular context. And what I would wish to see is certainty that the Welsh language is mainstreamed into all of these discussions, and that considerations with regard to the Welsh language are a central part of that discussion. But as I've said already, there are some structures already in place and there are marketing and promotional activities already taking place, and there is an opportunity to co-ordinate those better; the Welsh Government is working on that with regard to the language strategy. And so, it will be important that the commission contributes to that work, but noting that it's the Government that is the main driver of the language strategy, and a major part of that strategy is the tertiary sector, which will be the responsibility of the new commission.
Welsh: Dwi'n credu bod y Bil, gan nodi bod yna rai pethau y byddem ni'n awyddus i'w gweld yn cael eu cryfhau, yn rhoi cryn dipyn o ddylanwad a photensial i'r comisiwn i ddylanwadu ac i weithredu rhai o ddyheadau Llywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas â darpariaeth Gymraeg a dwyieithog. Mae llawer iawn yn dibynnu nid yn gymaint ar y Bil ei hun, ond ar sut y bydd y comisiwn yn cael ei sefydlu; beth fydd ymagwedd y cadeirydd, yr aelodau, y prif weithredwr a'r swyddogion, a sut y byddan nhw'n mynd ati i weithredu ac i gydweithio gyda phartneriaid yn y cyd-destun hwn. A beth fuaswn ni'n dymuno gweld ydy sicrwydd bod y Gymraeg yn cael ei phrif ffrydio i mewn i'r trafodaethau hyn i gyd, a bod ystyriaethau mewn perthynas â'r Gymraeg yn rhan ganolog o'r drafodaeth yna. Ond fel y dywedais i'n barod, mae yna rai strwythurau mewn lle ac mae yna weithgareddau marchnata a hyrwyddo yn digwydd yn barod, ac mae yna gyfle i gydlynu'r rheini'n well; mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio ar hynny mewn perthynas â'r strategaeth iaith. Ac felly, bydd hi'n bwysig bod y comisiwn yn cyfrannu at hynny, ond gan nodi mai'r Llywodraeth yw prif yrrwr y strategaeth iaith ac mai rhan ganolog o'r strategaeth honno ydy'r sector drydyddol, fydd yn gyfrifoldeb ar y comisiwn newydd.
English: Thank you, Chair. Good afternoon. Yes, I want to drill down a little bit into what you were talking about earlier, Ioan, in terms of having that clarity with regard to the different roles in terms of the coleg, the commission and the Government. If the commission is to have duties and funding powers in relation to tertiary education, should the coleg then be included within the remit of the commission?
Welsh: Diolch, Cadeirydd. Prynhawn da. Ie, dwi eisiau drilio lawr ychydig i'r hyn oeddech chi'n sôn amdano fe gynnau, Ioan, o ran cael eglurder ynglŷn â'r gwahanol rolau o ran y coleg, y comisiwn a'r Llywodraeth. Os yw'r comisiwn am gael dyletswyddau a phwerau cyllido mewn perthynas ag addysg drydyddol, a ddylid cynnwys y coleg o fewn cylch gwaith y comisiwn?
English: If I can just come in on that, we've had some discussions with officials, and indeed some conversations with the Minister himself, in terms of the coleg 's role in future, and had an assurance, as the programme for government states, that there is no intention to change the coleg 's role in any way. So, to ensure that that is confirmed and that this is a long-term piece of work, we would be eager to strengthen the definition of the relationship and the collaboration that is already noted in the memorandum, that there is greater clarity on that, and indeed, as Gwenllian said, we're receiving advice on how we can ensure that that is an ongoing responsibility, not just a short to medium-term responsibility.
Welsh: Os caf i ategu hefyd ein bod ni wedi cael rhai trafodaethau gyda swyddogion ac, yn wir, rhywfaint o sgwrs gyda'r Gweinidog ei hun ynglŷn â rôl y coleg yn mynd ymlaen, a chael sicrwydd, fel mae'r rhaglen lywodraethol yn nodi, nad oes unrhyw fwriad i newid rôl y coleg mewn unrhyw ffordd. Felly, er mwyn sicrhau bod hynny'n cael ei gadarnhau a bod hwn yn ddarn hirdymor o waith, byddem ni'n awyddus i gryfhau'r diffiniad o'r berthynas a'r cydweithio sydd wedi eu nodi eisoes yn y memorandwm, a bod yna fwy o eglurder ar hwnna, ac yn wir, fel dywedodd Gwenllian, rydyn ni'n derbyn cyngor ar sut y gellid sicrhau bod hwn yn gyfrifoldeb parhaol, nid yn rhywbeth tymor byr i ganolig yn unig.
English: The next question I have follows on directly from that. So, what I would like to ask is whether you could outline, on a very high level, what the different roles of Welsh Ministers, the commission and your body should be, and bodies such as the National Centre for Learning Welsh, in terms of this system in future. Do we need to amend the Bill to reflect this? You suggested that it needs to be made clearer, and Gwenllian, I think, spoke earlier about funding in terms of discussing with the coleg Cymraeg, and even channelling that work through the coleg Cymraeg. So, what would you like to see in terms of this relationship, and then, do you believe that the Bill needs to be amended to reflect that arrangement?
Welsh: Mae'r cwestiwn nesaf sydd gen i, mewn ffordd, yn dilyn yn uniongyrchol o hynny, felly beth fyddwn i'n hoffi holi yw: beth yn eich barn chi - ? Allwch chi nodi, efallai, ar lefel uchel, beth ddylai gwahanol rolau Gweinidogion Cymru, y comisiwn a chi eich hun fod, a chyrff fel y ganolfan ddysgu genedlaethol, o ran y system yma yn y dyfodol? Oes angen diwygio'r Bil i adlewyrchu hyn? Rŷch chi wedi awgrymu bod angen ei wneud e'n fwy eglur, ac roedd Gwenllian, dwi'n meddwl, yn siarad yn gynharach ynglŷn â chyllido o ran trafod gyda'r coleg Cymraeg, a hyd yn oed sianelu'r gwaith yna drwy'r coleg Cymraeg. Beth hoffech chi ei weld o ran y berthynas yma, ac wedyn, a ydych chi'n meddwl fod angen diwygio'r Bil i adlewyrchu hynny?
English: I don't have a great deal to add to that, really. I think that the relationship between the Government, the commission, and providers, as Gwenllian has said, is quite clear. I think that there is sufficient clarity in terms of the expectations, if the expectations are raised sufficiently in terms of ambition. But I think the lack of clarity regarding how exactly the arrangement will work between the coleg and the commission - . I understand from within the explanatory memorandum that the Government, at one time, had mentioned a committee with responsibility for the Welsh language and that they've moved away from that, and I understand why. I understand that they say that it's a matter for the commission, ultimately, to work on how things are structured. Despite that, there is a reference to three committees created within the commission regardless, and because it's the coleg that currently has these responsibilities for the Welsh language, I don't know whether it's good enough for the Government to say, 'Well, there will be this kind of relationship in the short term, we'll move towards this kind of relationship' - and worse than that - 'We don't know exactly what kind of relationship there will be in the short term or the longer term.' So, I do think that there is a need for clarity on that, or there won't be any certainty, in my view, that things aren't going to be duplicated, or things left for one body to do because the other body thinks that they're responsible for it.
Welsh: Does gen i ddim llawr i'w ychwanegu, rili. Dwi'n gweld bod y berthynas rhwng Llywodraeth, comisiwn a darparwyr, fel mae Gwenllian wedi dweud, yn eithaf clir. Dwi'n meddwl bod yna ddigon o eglurder o ran y disgwyliadau, os ydy'r disgwyliadau yn cael eu codi digon o ran uchelgais. Ond dwi'n meddwl bod y diffyg eglurder yma o ran sut yn union fydd y trefniadau yn gweithio rhwng y coleg a'r comisiwn - . Dwi'n deall o fewn y memorandwm esboniadol bod y Llywodraeth ar un adeg wedi sôn am bwyllgor a oedd efo cyfrifoldeb dros y Gymraeg, a'u bod nhw wedi symud oddi ar hynny, a dwi'n deall pam. Dwi'n deall eu bod nhw'n dweud mai mater i'r comisiwn yn y pen draw ydy gweithio ar sut mae pethau yn cael eu strwythuro. Er hynny, mae yna gyfeiriad at dri phwyllgor sydd yn cael eu creu o fewn y comisiwn beth bynnag, ac o achos mai'r coleg ar hyn o bryd sydd efo'r cyfrifoldebau yma dros y Gymraeg, dwi ddim yn siŵr iawn ei fod o'n ddigon da i'r Llywodraeth ddweud, 'Wel, fe fydd yna'r math yma o berthynas yn y tymor byr, byddwn ni'n symud at y math yma o berthynas' - a gwaeth na hynny - 'Dydyn ni ddim yn gwybod yn union pa fath o berthynas sydd yn y tymor byr na'r fath o berthynas sydd yn y tymor hir.' Felly, dwi'n meddwl bod angen eglurder ar hynny, neu does yna ddim sicrwydd, yn fy marn i, fod pethau ddim yn mynd i gael eu dyblygu, neu bethau yn mynd i gael eu gadael i un corff o achos bod y corff arall yn meddwl mai nhw sy'n gyfrifol.
English: Thank you. Ioan, did you want to come in?
Welsh: Diolch. Ioan, oeddech chi eisiau dod i mewn?
English: I agree entirely with what Aled has said. The MoU that we have with the funding council, for example, without going into too much detail, means that the coleg is part of the process - indeed, it co-ordinates the process - of agreeing indicators with the universities. And then those indicators, in terms of the Welsh language, are those that are included in the wider agreement with regard to the entire activities of the universities. That kind of model works, and it's a relatively new model. I'm sure that we could put the same kind of model in place. But I think that's the kind of contextual detail that would help.
Welsh: Dwi'n cytuno'n llwyr gyda beth mae Aled wedi'i ddweud. Mae'r cytundeb MoU sydd gyda ni gyda'r cyngor cyllido, er enghraifft, heb fynd i ormod o fanylder, yn golygu bod y coleg yn rhan o'r broses - yn wir, yn cydlynu'r broses - o gytuno mesuryddion gyda'r prifysgolion. Ac wedyn y mesuryddion hynny, o ran y Gymraeg, yw'r rhai sydd yn cael eu cynnwys yn y cytundebau mwy sy'n ymwneud â holl weithgaredd y prifysgolion. Mae'r math yna o fodel yn gweithio, ac mae'n fodel cymharol newydd. Byddwn i'n hyderus y gallwn ni roi'r un math o beth ar waith. Ond dwi'n credu mai dyna'r math o fanylder cyd-destunol fyddai'n helpu.
English: Thank you. That's a useful point. If I could just ask Aled specifically this question to conclude. You say in your paper that it is important - and you have touched on this - to ensure that matters regarding the Welsh language are mainstreamed into the commission's work and are considered a core part of the commission's general function. To what extent does the Bill provide for this approach?
Welsh: Diolch. Mae hynny'n bwynt defnyddiol. Os gallaf i ofyn i Aled yn benodol y cwestiwn yma i orffen. Rŷch chi'n dweud yn eich papur chi ei fod e'n bwysig - ac rŷch chi wedi cyffwrdd ar hyn yn barod - sicrhau bod materion yn ymwneud â'r Gymraeg yn cael eu prif-ffrydio yng ngwaith y comisiwn a'u bod yn cael eu hystyried yn rhan greiddiol o swyddogaeth gyffredinol y comisiwn. I ba raddau y mae'r Bil yn darparu ar gyfer y dull hwn?
English: Thank you. As has already been said, there is a risk of that if there is a lack of clarity, but there is a greater risk, I believe, if full responsibility for the Welsh language lies with a huge body such as the commission, which has all kinds of other responsibilities. The reason why the coleg Cymraeg and the national centre - I can't speak on their behalf - were both established was that it was a decision that the Welsh Government made that they were needed. Those were very recent decisions, and they are decisions that emanate from Government policy and the Government's ambition to see that Welsh-medium provision does receive full and appropriate attention, and that there is specific funding provided by the Government for that. So, the situation at the moment is very clear. What would be unclear and would create a lack of clarity would be sliding back from the situation that we currently have and create greater ambiguity, and losing, indeed, the momentum that we have, the momentum that the coleg has built up and is only starting to build in terms of apprenticeships and further education. Aled talked about the staffing challenges; it's only this year that we've started to work with the colleges to appoint more staff. That is the first key step - to get the staff to be able to teach through the medium of Welsh in FE colleges. That is the first significant step emanating from that strategy. So, I think what would create a lack of clarity would be to undermine a plan that is working and is moving in the right direction.
Welsh: Diolch. Fel sydd wedi cael ei ddweud yn barod, mae yna risg o hwnna os oes yna aneglurder, ond mae yna risg mwy, dwi'n credu, os ydy cyfrifoldeb llawn am y Gymraeg yn gorwedd gyda chorff enfawr fel y comisiwn, sydd â chyfrifoldebau o bob math. Y rheswm pam fod y coleg Cymraeg a'r ganolfan hefyd - er na allaf i siarad ar eu rhan nhw, yn amlwg - yn bodoli yw penderfyniadau bod eu hangen nhw gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Penderfyniadau diweddar iawn yw'r rheini, ac maen nhw'n benderfyniadau sy'n deillio o bolisi'r Llywodraeth a dyhead y Llywodraeth i sicrhau bod darpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg yn cael sylw llawn a phriodol, a bod yna gyllid penodol yn cael ei ddarparu gan y Llywodraeth ar gyfer hynny. Felly, mae'r sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd yn glir iawn. Yr hyn fyddai'n aneglur ac yn creu aneglurder fyddai llithro nôl o'r sefyllfa sydd gyda ni ar hyn o bryd a chreu rhagor o amwysedd, ac, yn wir, colli'r momentwm hefyd, y momentwm mae'r coleg wedi'i adeiladu ac ond yn dechrau adeiladu yn y maes addysg bellach a phrentisiaethau. Roedd Aled yn sôn am yr heriau staffio; dim ond eleni rŷn ni wedi dechrau gweithio gyda'r colegau i benodi mwy o staff. Dyna'r cam cyntaf allweddol - y staff i ddysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg mewn colegau addysg bellach. Dyna'r cam cyntaf sylweddol yn deillio o'r strategaeth yna. Felly, rwy'n credu yr hyn fyddai'n creu aneglurder fyddai tanseilio cynllun sydd eisoes yn gweithio ac yn symud i'r cyfeiriad iawn.
English: I'm of the same view, if truth be told. I think that the responsibilities are quite clear currently, so there isn't a suggestion that there is duplication at the moment. A review has been undertaken in terms of the National Centre for Learning Welsh over the summer, and all the recommendations of that review have been accepted by the Government. I think that that is a very important point that suggests that things are working quite well at the moment. And I think that all of these questions in terms of potential duplication or ineffective use of resources are created as a result of the lack of clarity within the Bill as it currently stands. As far as I can see, it is one suggestion for the short term and another suggestion after that, and there is no clarity one way or the other on those points. So, without us understanding exactly who is responsible for what and that the arrangements are sufficiently robust, there is a danger of a lack of clarity. Having said that, I would support what Ioan said; the truth is that unless specific attention is given to the Welsh language, the history in Wales tells us that the Welsh language doesn't get its due place and regard. And that's the truth of the matter. I don't think we would want to use this lack of clarity with regard to this Bill as an excuse to undo what has been quite successful over the last five to 10 years.
Welsh: Dwi o'r un farn, a dweud y gwir. Dwi'n meddwl bod y cyfrifoldebau'n eithaf clir ar hyn o bryd, felly does yna ddim awgrym bod yna ddyblygu ar hyn o bryd. Mae yna adolygiad wedi cael ei wneud o ran y ganolfan ddysgu dros yr haf, ac mae holl argymhellion yr adolygiad yna wedi cael eu derbyn gan y Llywodraeth. Dwi'n meddwl bod hynny'n bwynt pwysig, sy'n awgrymu bod pethau'n gweithio'n eithaf da ar hyn o bryd. A dwi'n meddwl bod yr holl gwestiynau yma o ran dyblygu posib neu ddefnydd aneffeithiol o adnoddau yn cael eu creu o achos yr aneglurder sydd o fewn y Bil ar hyn o bryd o ran beth dwi'n ei weld fel un awgrym ar gyfer y tymor byr ac awgrym arall ar ôl hynny, a does yna ddim eglurder un ffordd neu'r llall. Felly, heblaw ein bod ni'n deall yn union pwy sy'n gyfrifol am beth a bod y trefniadau'n ddigon cadarn, mae yna beryg o hynny. Wrth ddweud hynny, wrth gwrs, hefyd, buaswn i'n cefnogi beth ddywedodd Ioan; y gwir amdani ydy, heblaw bod sylw penodol yn cael ei roi i'r Gymraeg, yr hanes yma yng Nghymru ydy bod y Gymraeg ddim yn cael ei lle. A dyna'r gwir amdani. Felly, dwi ddim yn meddwl ein bod ni eisiau defnyddio'r aneglurder yma o ran y Bil yma yn esgus i ddad-wneud beth sydd wedi bod yn eithaf llwyddiannus yn ystod y pump neu 10 mlynedd olaf.
English: Just to add -
Welsh: Jest i ychwanegu -
English: I think what's important in terms of the powers the commission will have to reorganise sixth forms - . I think what's important is that there are checks and balances as part of this process. So, if they want to make a decision with regard to reorganisation of sixth form provision through the medium of Welsh, then there has to be an assurance that there are considerations with regard to the impact of this on the language locally, and the ultimate impact of this on the 2050 strategy, and that this is all part of the decision, that decisions aren't being made without those issues being discussed.
Welsh: Dwi'n credu beth sydd yn bwysig o ran y pwerau fydd gan y comisiwn i ad-drefnu chweched dosbarth - . Felly, beth sy'n bwysig, dwi'n credu, yw bod rhyw fath o checks and balances yn rhan o hynny. Felly, os ydyn nhw am gymryd penderfyniad ynglŷn ag ad-drefnu darpariaeth chweched dosbarth cyfrwng Cymraeg, yna mae'n rhaid bod yna rhyw fath o sicrwydd bod yna ystyriaethau o ran effaith hyn ar y Gymraeg yn lleol, ac effaith hyn yn y pen draw ar strategaeth 'Cymraeg 2050', a bod hynny i gyd yn cael ei ystyried fel rhan o'r penderfyniad, bod e ddim jest yn gallu cael ei gymryd heb fod y pethau hynny'n cael eu trafod a'u hystyried. Diolch.