English: Can I thank Tom Giffard for those largely supportive comments and some of the very constructive suggestions that he made? To try and take your points in order, Tom, it is our intention that all decisions made on how we commemorate, both in terms of future and existing public commemorations, are made by local people and that there is as wide a possible involvement in that as we possibly can. Part of the process for the consultation around the guidance is that it is giving yet another opportunity for the widest breadth of the population to get involved and to say what they think about that. On the process that we employed to draft the guidance, we had a number of bodies and stakeholders involved, headed by Marian Gwyn from Race Council Cymru, and a series of workshops were held where people from all different groups and backgrounds were able to come along and have their say. And, as I say, the person who led the original audit, Gaynor Legall, has also had the opportunity to comment on them. I hope that the consultation process will expand on that, but this is where we've started. I think what is important in all of this - . You talked about how we shouldn't go down the road of cultural vandalism, and you talked about Colston and Picton, and I'll come back to Picton in a moment. In both those circumstances, there have been - . The city of Bristol, for instance, has actually set up - . I'm trying to think what the name of the organisation is now. They've set up the We Are Bristol History Commission, which is where they're helping the community to address the complex and contested heritage. There's something very similar going on in Liverpool as well, with their contested history. I don't think this is about cultural vandalism in the sense of destroying monuments; it is about how we interpret them. If we talk about Picton, for instance, I said I wanted to come back to him, because you made the point about the military and, of course, Picton was a military general. But Picton was also responsible for torturing a 14-year-old girl. So, what we say is that in recognising his place in our history and what he did as a general, fighting for his country under the orders that he was given, he also did some terrible things, involved in the slave trade, which also involved torturing a young slave girl. That needs to be told as well, and that needs to be contextualised in terms of balancing the history that you are talking about. I think we are on the same page. I think that what we are saying is that we understand that when these monuments were originally erected we looked at it in a different way. We are now looking at it through a different lens. I just think about the conversation I had with the manager of the Cyfarthfa museum in my constituency, when I stood on the steps of Cyfarthfa castle and we were underneath Crawshay's bedroom. We looked out across Merthyr and the manager said to me, 'This is where Crawshay stood every morning and surveyed everything he owned across Merthyr Tydfil.' But of course, we can't look at that through twenty-first century eyes, because in the time of the Crawshays, and certainly the early Crawshays, relatively speaking those workers were well paid and were well looked after. So, we have to set that in the context of that era, as opposed to the twenty-first century. But it is about absolutely balancing the context of the history of anybody that we're going to seek to commemorate.
Welsh: A gaf i ddiolch i Tom Giffard am y sylwadau cefnogol yna i raddau helaeth a rhai o'r awgrymiadau adeiladol iawn a wnaeth? Er mwyn ceisio ymdrin â'ch sylwadau yn eu trefn, Tom, ein bwriad yw bod pob penderfyniad a wnaed ar sut rydym yn coffáu, o ran coffáu cyhoeddus yn y presennol a'r dyfodol, yn cael ei wneud gan bobl leol a bod cyfraniad mor eang â phosibl yn hynny. Rhan o'r broses ar gyfer yr ymgynghoriad ynghylch y canllawiau yw ei fod yn rhoi cyfle arall eto i amrywiaeth ehangaf y boblogaeth gymryd rhan ac i ddweud beth maen nhw'n ei feddwl am hynny. O ran y broses y buom yn ei dilyn i ddrafftio'r canllawiau, roedd gennym ni nifer o gyrff a rhanddeiliaid dan sylw, o dan arweiniad Marian Gwyn o Race Council Cymru, a chynhaliwyd cyfres o weithdai lle roedd pobl o bob math o wahanol grwpiau a chefndir yn gallu dod draw i ddweud eu dweud. Ac fel rwy'n dweud, mae'r sawl a arweiniodd yr archwiliad gwreiddiol, Gaynor Legall, hefyd wedi cael cyfle i roi sylwadau arnyn nhw. Gobeithio y bydd y broses ymgynghori yn ehangu ar hynny, ond dyma lle rydym ni wedi dechrau. Rwy'n credu beth sy'n bwysig yn hyn i gyd - . Roeddech chi'n sôn sut na ddylem ni droi at fandaliaeth ddiwylliannol, a buoch chi'n siarad am Colston a Picton, ac fe ddychwelaf at Picton yn y man. Yn y ddwy sefyllfa hynny - . Mae dinas Bryste, er enghraifft, wedi sefydlu mewn gwirionedd - . Rwy'n ceisio cofio beth yw enw'r sefydliad nawr. Maen nhw wedi sefydlu Comisiwn Hanes Bryste 'We Are Bristol', lle maen nhw'n helpu'r gymuned i fynd i'r afael â'r dreftadaeth gymhleth ac aml ei dehongliad. Mae yna rywbeth tebyg iawn yn digwydd yn Lerpwl hefyd, gyda'u hanes cymhleth hwythau. Nid wyf yn meddwl bod hyn yn ymwneud â fandaliaeth ddiwylliannol yn yr ystyr o ddinistrio henebion; mae'n ymwneud â sut rydym ni'n eu dehongli. Os ydyn ni'n siarad am Picton, er enghraifft, dywedais fy mod i eisiau dod yn ôl ato, oherwydd fe wnaethoch chi'r pwynt am y fyddin ac, wrth gwrs, roedd Picton yn gadfridog milwrol. Ond roedd Picton hefyd yn gyfrifol am arteithio merch 14 oed. Felly, yr hyn a ddywedwn yw, wrth gydnabod ei le yn ein hanes a'r hyn a wnaeth fel cadfridog, gan ymladd dros ei wlad dan y gorchmynion a roddwyd iddo, gwnaeth rai pethau ofnadwy hefyd, yn ymwneud â'r fasnach gaethweision, a oedd hefyd yn ymwneud ag arteithio caethferch ifanc. Mae angen dweud hynny hefyd, ac mae angen cyd-destunoli hynny o ran cydbwyso'r hanes yr ydych chi'n sôn amdano. Rwy'n credu ein bod ni yn gweld pethau yr un fath. Rwy'n credu mai'r hyn yr ydym ni'n ei ddweud yw ein bod ni'n deall, pan godwyd yr henebion hyn yn wreiddiol, ein bod ni'n edrych arno mewn ffordd wahanol. Rydym bellach yn edrych arno drwy lens wahanol. Rwyf dim ond yn meddwl am y sgwrs a gefais gyda rheolwr amgueddfa Cyfarthfa yn fy etholaeth, pan sefais ar risiau castell Cyfarthfa a ninnau o dan ystafell wely Crawshay. Dyma ni'n edrych allan ar draws Merthyr a dywedodd y rheolwr wrthyf, 'Dyma lle safai Crawshay bob bore gan arolygu popeth yr oedd yn berchen arno ar draws Merthyr Tudful.' Ond wrth gwrs, allwn ni ddim edrych ar hynny drwy lygaid yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, oherwydd yn amser y Crawshays, ac yn sicr y Crawshays cynnar, a siarad yn gyffredinol roedd y gweithwyr hynny'n cael cyflog da ac yn cael gofal da. Felly, mae'n rhaid i ni osod hynny yng nghyd-destun yr oes honno, yn hytrach na'r unfed ganrif ar hugain. Ond mae'n ymwneud yn llwyr â chydbwyso cyd-destun hanes unrhyw un yr awn ati i geisio ei goffáu.