techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: Welcome back to this meeting of the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee. We'll move on now to item 5 on our agenda, which is our continuation of scrutiny of the Agriculture (Wales) Bill. This is the ninth evidence session that the committee has held discussing the general principles of the Bill. We're hearing evidence in this session from academics on post-EU considerations related to the Bill. Can I welcome the witnesses to this session? Before we move straight to questions, can I ask them, please, to introduce themselves for the record?
Welsh: Croeso nôl i gyfarfod Pwyllgor yr Economi, Masnach, a Materion Gwledig. Symudwn ni ymlaen nawr i eitem 5 ar ein hagenda, sef parhau i graffu ar Fil Amaethyddiaeth (Cymru). Dyma nawfed sesiwn dystiolaeth y pwyllgor yn trafod egwyddorion cyffredinol Bil Amaethyddiaeth (Cymru). Rŷn ni yn y sesiwn yma'n clywed tystiolaeth gan academyddion ar ystyriaethau ar ôl gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd mewn perthynas â'r Bil. A gaf i, felly, groesawu'r tystion i'r sesiwn yma? Cyn inni symud yn syth i gwestiynau, gaf i ofyn iddyn nhw gyflwyno eu hunain i'r record?
English: We will move on, therefore, to item 6, which is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content with that? Yes, I see that they are. Therefore, that motion is agreed and we will move on to our private session.
Welsh: Symudwn ni ymlaen, felly, i eitem 6, a dwi'n cynnig, o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42, i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod. A yw Aelodau'n fodlon ar hynny? Ydyn, dwi'n gweld bod Aelodau yn fodlon ar hynny. Felly, derbyniwyd y cynnig ac fe symudwn ni ymlaen i'n sesiwn breifat ni.
English: Good morning and welcome to this meeting of the Finance Committee this morning. We're going to be moving on now to look at the Agriculture (Wales) Bill, but before that we're going to take the papers to note. But, first of all, does anybody have any interests to declare? Peter.
Welsh: Bore da, a chroeso i gyfarfod y Pwyllgor Cyllid y bore yma. Rydyn ni'n mynd i fod yn symud ymlaen i edrych ar y Bil Amaeth (Cymru), ond, cyn hynny, rydyn ni am gymryd y papurau i'w nodi. I gychwyn, oes gan unrhyw un unrhyw fuddiannau i'w datgan? Peter.
English: Thank you very much for coming.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn ichi am ddod.
English: In accordance with Standing Order 17.42, I propose that the committee resolves to exclude the public from items 5 and 7 and the meetings on 16 November and 1 December. So, items 5 and 7 today and then 16 November and 1 December. Are Members content? Yes. No problem. Thank you very much.
Welsh: Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42, rydyn ni'n penderfynu i wahardd y cyhoedd o eitemau 5 a 7 o'r cyfarfod ac o gyfarfodydd 16 Tachwedd a hefyd 1 Rhagfyr. Felly, eitemau 5 a 7 heddiw ac wedyn ar 16 Tachwedd a 1 Rhagfyr. Ydy pawb yn gytûn? Ie. Dim problem. Diolch yn fawr.
English: A warm welcome to you. It's nice to see you.
Welsh: Croeso cynnes i chi. Mae'n neis eich gweld chi.
English: Thank you very much for attending. Therefore, under the Standing Order we've already passed, we will go back into private session now, and for the meetings on 16 November and 1 December. Thank you very much.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn ichi am ddod. Felly yn ôl y rheol rydyn ni wedi ei wneud yn barod, gwnawn ni fynd yn ôl yn breifat rŵan, ac ar gyfer y cyfarfodydd ar 16 Tachwedd a 1 Rhagfyr. Diolch yn fawr.
English: Okay, we are ready to begin. Good afternoon to you all. The first item on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Minister for Social Justice, and the first question is from Natasha Asghar.
Welsh: Iawn, dyma ni'n cychwyn y cyfarfod. Prynhawn da i bawb. Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma yw'r cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Natasha Asghar.
English: Thank you very much for the question. The Deputy Minister for Climate Change has agreed the extension of the welcome ticket scheme for refugees until March 2023. A working group has been established to take forward a programme of work for the free transport scheme and work needed to be taken beyond April 2023.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn am eich cwestiwn. Mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog Newid Hinsawdd wedi cytuno i ymestyn cynllun y tocyn croeso i ffoaduriaid tan fis Mawrth 2023. Mae gweithgor wedi'i sefydlu i fwrw ymlaen â rhaglen waith ar gyfer y cynllun trafnidiaeth am ddim a'r gwaith y bydd angen ei wneud y tu hwnt i fis Ebrill 2023.
English: Thank you very much, Natasha Asghar. It's really important that we look to this working group to resolve many of the issues that you've raised. You'll be aware, of course, that the Welsh Government - and it's only the Welsh Government; there is no other scheme of its kind in the UK - provided free transport for asylum seekers in a short pilot, which was managed by the Welsh Refugee Council from January to the end of March this year. So, of course, we're taking forward the outcomes of that pilot to consider free transport options for sanctuary seekers. It's very important that, in the working group, we've actually got representatives from the Welsh Refugee Council as well as from Transport for Wales and the Welsh Government. And what we're now looking to do is to develop a welcome ticket with a free travel smartcard based on the current concessionary card scheme so that you can then get that eligibility assessment prior to the issue of a free travel pass and eliminate some of the difficulties that have been experienced. It is a really important scheme. We want to look at the eligibility and, as I said, here in Wales, we're going much further, for example, than the UK Government in our offer in terms of travel to integrate into Welsh society.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn, Natasha Asghar. Mae'n bwysig iawn inni geisio sicrhau bod y gweithgor hwn yn datrys llawer o'r problemau a nodwyd gennych. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol, wrth gwrs, fod Llywodraeth Cymru - a dim ond Llywodraeth Cymru; nid oes unrhyw gynllun arall o'i fath yn y DU - wedi darparu trafnidiaeth am ddim i geiswyr lloches mewn cynllun peilot byr, a reolwyd gan Gyngor Ffoaduriaid Cymru o fis Ionawr hyd at ddiwedd mis Mawrth eleni. Felly, wrth gwrs, rydym yn bwrw ymlaen â chanlyniadau'r cynllun peilot hwnnw i ystyried opsiynau trafnidiaeth am ddim i geiswyr lloches. Mae'n bwysig iawn fod gennym, yn y gweithgor, gynrychiolwyr o Gyngor Ffoaduriaid Cymru yn ogystal ag o Trafnidiaeth Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru. A'r hyn rydym yn bwriadu ei wneud nawr yw datblygu tocyn croeso gyda cherdyn teithio clyfar am ddim yn seiliedig ar y cynllun cerdyn teithio rhatach presennol fel y gallwch wedyn gael yr asesiad cymhwysedd hwnnw cyn rhoi cerdyn teithio am ddim a chael gwared ar rai o'r anawsterau a gafwyd. Mae'n gynllun gwirioneddol bwysig. Rydym am edrych ar y cymhwysedd, ac fel y dywedais, yma yng Nghymru, rydym yn mynd yn llawer pellach, er enghraifft, na Llywodraeth y DU yn ein cynnig teithio er mwyn galluogi pobl i integreiddio i gymdeithas Cymru.
English: Thank you for your question.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr am eich cwestiwn.
English: The Welsh Government provides support to those in fuel poverty in off-grid homes, including the Warm Homes Nest scheme, the discretionary assistance fund, the Welsh Government fuel support scheme and the Fuel Bank Foundation.
Welsh: Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu cymorth i'r rheini sydd mewn tlodi tanwydd mewn cartrefi nad ydynt ar y grid, gan gynnwys cynllun Nyth Cartrefi Clyd, y gronfa cymorth dewisol, cynllun cymorth tanwydd Llywodraeth Cymru a'r Sefydliad Banc Tanwydd.
English: You will be aware, Minister, that a high percentage of homes in Wales are not connected to the gas grid - it's almost one in five homes. And in some areas in Carmarthenshire, for example, it's as much as 39 per cent. These homes, which are reliant on home-heating oil or other alternative fuels, don't benefit from the cap on fuel prices - they don't get that 4 per cent discount; they'll receive just £100 through the UK Government. Even the Secretary of State for Wales has accepted that that is insufficient. Are you putting pressure on the UK Government to do more? And in the meantime, what additional support, in addition to what you've already mentioned, can we provide to these homes that will face very difficult times in the coming months?
Welsh: Byddwch chi'n ymwybodol, Weinidog, fod yna ganran uchel yng Nghymru o gartrefi sydd ddim yn gysylltiedig â'r grid cyflenwad nwy - hynny yw, bron un mas o bump o bob cartref. Ac mewn rhai mannau yn sir Gaerfyrddin, er enghraifft, mae e gymaint â 39 y cant. Dyw'r cartrefi yma, sydd yn ddibynol ar olew cartref neu danwyddau amgen eraill, wrth gwrs ddim yn elwa o'r cap ar brisiau ynni - dŷn nhw ddim yn cael y 4 y cant o ddisgownt; dim ond £100 maen nhw'n ei dderbyn trwy Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol. Mae hyd yn oed Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru wedi derbyn nad yw hwnna'n ddigon. Ydych chi'n dwyn pwysau ar Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol i wneud mwy? Ac yn y cyfamser, pa gymorth ychwanegol, ar ben yr hyn rydych chi wedi sôn amdano'n barod, y gallwn ni ddarparu i'r cartrefi yma sydd yn mynd i wynebu cyfnod anodd iawn yn ystod y misoedd sy'n dod?
English: I'm grateful to the Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr for submitting this question, because many of the circumstances that he described are applicable to my constituency of Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire as well. But it's also important to note that, for many rural households, their home also acts as a place of business, and this is incredibly important for those in the agricultural community, for example - and I declare an interest as a director of Wales young farmers club. On average, off-grid homes have experienced a 21 per cent price increase in the cost of fuel, and a nearly 60 per cent increase over pre-Ukrainian-war prices. However, this disproportionately impacts households that live and work in the same setting. So, given this, can I ask what discussions the Minister has had with her colleague the rural affairs Minister to help alleviate these disproportionate financial pressures on those in our agricultural community? Diolch.
Welsh: Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Aelod dros Ddwyrain Caerfyrddin a Dinefwr am gyflwyno'r cwestiwn hwn, gan fod llawer o'r amgylchiadau a ddisgrifiodd hefyd yn berthnasol i fy etholaeth innau, Gorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro. Ond mae hefyd yn bwysig nodi, i lawer o aelwydydd gwledig, fod eu cartref hefyd yn gweithredu fel man busnes, ac mae hyn yn hynod o bwysig i'r rheini yn y gymuned amaethyddol, er enghraifft - ac rwy'n datgan buddiant fel cyfarwyddwr clwb ffermwyr ifanc Cymru. Ar gyfartaledd, mae cartrefi nad ydynt ar y grid wedi wynebu cynnydd o 21 y cant yng nghost tanwydd, a chynnydd o bron i 60 y cant o gymharu â'r prisiau cyn y rhyfel yn Wcráin. Fodd bynnag, mae hyn yn effeithio'n anghymesur ar aelwydydd sy'n byw ac yn gweithio yn yr un lleoliad. Felly, o ystyried hyn, a gaf fi ofyn pa drafodaethau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cael gyda'i chyd-Weinidog, y Gweinidog materion gwledig, i helpu i liniaru'r pwysau ariannol anghymesur hwn ar y rhai yn ein cymuned amaethyddol? Diolch.
English: Well, clearly, the response to the cost-of-living crisis is a cross-Government issue, and the First Minister has set up a Cabinet sub-committee on the cost-of-living crisis. So, we're looking at the impact on households and businesses, and the rural communities and businesses that you've highlighted today, across the board. It is very important that people take up the benefits that they are entitled to - households, of course, that will benefit, in particular some of those farming businesses. So, I'm very pleased that, in terms of the £200 payment from the Welsh Government winter fuel support scheme - only announced at the end of September - already over 200,000 payments have been made. But I think it is important that also we look at the fact that, in rural areas, one in 10 households are reliant on heating oil or liquid gas, as has been said by the Member Adam Price, for their domestic space and water heating, and this increases to 28 per cent of households. And we do call on the UK Government to look at this, in terms of the impact it has. But can I just say, have you taken account - I'm sure you have - of oil-buying syndicates, such as Club Cosy and the Ceredigion fuel clubs that buy fuel together? We want to encourage that, because that can help residents and businesses.
Welsh: Wel, yn amlwg, mae'r ymateb i'r argyfwng costau byw yn fater trawslywodraethol, ac mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi sefydlu is-bwyllgor y Cabinet ar yr argyfwng costau byw. Felly, rydym yn edrych ar yr effaith ar aelwydydd a busnesau, a'r cymunedau a'r busnesau gwledig rydych wedi tynnu sylw atynt heddiw, yn gyffredinol. Mae'n bwysig iawn fod pobl yn manteisio ar y budd-daliadau y mae ganddynt hawl iddynt - aelwydydd, wrth gwrs, a fydd yn elwa, yn enwedig rhai o'r busnesau ffermio hynny. Felly, rwy'n falch iawn, o ran y taliad o £200 drwy gynllun cymorth tanwydd y gaeaf Llywodraeth Cymru - a gyhoeddwyd ddiwedd mis Medi - fod dros 200,000 o daliadau wedi'u gwneud yn barod. Ond credaf ei bod yn bwysig ein bod hefyd yn edrych ar y ffaith bod un o bob 10 o aelwydydd mewn ardaloedd gwledig yn dibynnu ar olew gwresogi neu nwy hylifedig, fel y dywedodd yr Aelod Adam Price, i wresogi eu gofod domestig a'u dŵr, ac mae hyn yn codi i 28 y cant o aelwydydd. Ac rydym yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i edrych ar hyn, o ran yr effaith a gaiff. Ond a gaf fi ddweud, a ydych wedi ystyried - rwy'n siŵr eich bod - syndicetiau prynu olew, fel Clwb Clyd a chlybiau tanwydd Ceredigion sy'n prynu tanwydd gyda'i gilydd? Rydym yn awyddus i annog hynny, gan y gall hynny helpu trigolion a busnesau.
English: Questions now from the party spokespeople. And this afternoon, these questions will all be answered by the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership. The Conservative spokesperson first of all - Joel James.
Welsh: Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. A'r prynhawn yma, bydd y cwestiynau yma i gyd yn cael eu hateb gan y Dirprwy Weinidog Partneriaeth Gymdeithasol. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr yn gyntaf - Joel James.
English: Thank you, Llywydd. Deputy Minister, I wanted to pick up, if I may, a few things today in relation to the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill. According to the draft Bill, one of the overarching objectives is that, and I quote: 'A statutory duty will be placed on certain public bodies to seek consensus or compromise with their recognised trade unions (or where there is no recognised trade union) other representatives of their staff, when setting their well-being objectives'. Now, as we all know, this works when consensus or compromise can be reached, and I am sure that in many cases it will. But there is no mention whatsoever in the Bill about what happens when consensus or compromise cannot be reached, and this will undoubtedly cause issues. With this in mind, Deputy Minister, I'm eager to know what will happen when consensus and compromise cannot be reached, and what mechanisms will be in place to allow public bodies to overcome trade union or worker representative sign-off when there is disagreement.
Welsh: Diolch, Lywydd. Ddirprwy Weinidog, os caf, hoffwn drafod ychydig o bethau heddiw mewn perthynas â Bil Partneriaeth Gymdeithasol a Chaffael Cyhoeddus (Cymru). Yn ôl y Bil drafft, un o'r amcanion trosfwaol yw y bydd, a dyfynnaf: 'Dyletswydd statudol yn cael ei rhoi ar gyrff cyhoeddus penodol i geisio consensws neu gyfaddawd gyda'u hundebau llafur cydnabyddedig (neu os nad oes undeb llafur cydnabyddedig) cynrychiolwyr eraill eu staff, wrth bennu eu hamcanion llesiant.' Nawr, fel y gŵyr pob un ohonom, mae hyn yn gweithio pan fydd modd cyrraedd consensws neu gyfaddawd, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd hynny'n bosibl mewn llawer o achosion. Ond nid oes unrhyw sôn o gwbl yn y Bil am yr hyn sy'n digwydd pan na ellir dod i gonsensws neu gyfaddawd, a bydd hyn, heb os, yn peri problemau. Gyda hyn mewn golwg, Ddirprwy Weinidog, rwy'n awyddus i wybod beth fydd yn digwydd pan na ellir dod i gonsensws a chyfaddawd, a pha fecanweithiau a fydd ar waith i ganiatáu i gyrff cyhoeddus oresgyn cymeradwyaeth undebau llafur neu gynrychiolwyr gweithwyr pan fydd anghytundeb.
English: Can I thank the Member for his contribution and the work that he has been doing as a member of the Equality and Social Justice Committee in scrutinising this important piece of legislation as it makes its progress through the legislative system in the Senedd? The Member refers to the duty on certain public bodies to work in social partnership when setting their well-being objectives, and he very much picks up on the wording of it around 'consensus' and 'compromise'. We could have just had the phrase in there 'to consult' but, often, 'consult' can be interpreted in different ways - it could just be a tick-box exercise. So, the consensus and compromise is very, very important - that it's done in a meaningful way. And the Member actually said in his question the likelihood is that this will be reached in these circumstances anyway because most public bodies already work in that way. You'll be familiar that, as part of the legislation, there will also be the establishment of a social partnership council, and that council will be able to advise Welsh Government, advise bodies, if there are challenges in terms of that part of the legislation, on what could be done to move forward. I just want to pick up finally, if I may, on the point that the Member said regarding trade union sign-off. There is no sign-off from any of the partners as part of this process. It is about actually what it says on the tin - working together in social partnership.
Welsh: A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Aelod am ei gyfraniad a'r gwaith y mae wedi bod yn ei wneud fel aelod o'r Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol yn craffu ar y ddeddfwriaeth bwysig hon wrth iddi wneud ei ffordd drwy'r system ddeddfwriaethol yn y Senedd? Cyfeiria'r Aelod at y ddyletswydd ar rai cyrff cyhoeddus i weithio mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol wrth bennu eu hamcanion llesiant, ac mae'n rhoi llawer o sylw i'r geiriad mewn perthynas â 'chonsensws' a 'chyfaddawd'. Gallem fod wedi cynnwys yr ymadrodd 'i ymgynghori', ond yn aml, gellir dehongli 'ymgynghori' mewn gwahanol ffyrdd - gallai fod yn ymarfer ticio blychau yn unig. Felly, mae'r consensws a'r cyfaddawd yn bwysig iawn - fod hynny'n digwydd mewn ffordd ystyrlon. A dywedodd yr Aelod yn ei gwestiwn mai'r tebygolrwydd yw y bydd hynny'n digwydd o dan yr amgylchiadau hyn beth bynnag gan fod y rhan fwyaf o gyrff cyhoeddus eisoes yn gweithio yn y ffordd honno. Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol, fel rhan o'r ddeddfwriaeth, y bydd cyngor partneriaeth gymdeithasol hefyd yn cael ei sefydlu, ac y bydd y cyngor hwnnw'n gallu cynghori Llywodraeth Cymru, cynghori cyrff, os oes heriau gyda'r rhan honno o'r ddeddfwriaeth, ar yr hyn y gellid ei wneud wedyn i symud ymlaen. Yn olaf, hoffwn drafod, os caf, y pwynt y soniodd yr Aelod amdano mewn perthynas â chymeradwyaeth undebau llafur. Ni cheir cymeradwyaeth gan unrhyw un o'r partneriaid fel rhan o'r broses hon. Mae'n ymwneud â'r hyn y mae'n ei ddweud ar y tun - cydweithio mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol.
English: Thank you, Deputy Minister, for your answer, but I'm conscious of what I've said, that it's most likely that, in most cases, you are going to get that compromise, but I think, with all the will in the world, you will always still get disagreements that cannot be resolved, and, without a proper mechanism in place, I fear that this Bill could have the potential to grind procurement for public bodies to a halt, and even for them to be held to ransom if unrealistic demands are made. For example, the future generations commissioner has set a precedent for the encouragement of a four-day working week, which trade unions or other worker representatives could ask for, which is, as you no doubt agree, just not achievable for a public body. So, with this in mind, I would like to understand what the Welsh Government's plan is if a trade union has initiated strike action against a public body. If there is a dispute, in my mind, trade unions can quite willingly withhold or withdraw from sign-off unless their conditions were met, which would mean that public bodies would fail to meet their statutory duties. So, with this in mind, Deputy Minister, what is stopping trade unions from using the statutory powers within this Bill as leverage in trade union disputes?
Welsh: Diolch am eich ateb, Ddirprwy Weinidog, ond rwy'n ymwybodol o'r hyn a ddywedais, sef eich bod, yn y rhan fwyaf o achosion, yn mynd i gael y cyfaddawd hwnnw, ond gyda phob ewyllys da, rwy'n credu y byddwch bob amser yn dal i gael anghytundeb na ellir ei ddatrys, a heb fecanwaith priodol ar waith, ofnaf y gallai fod perygl y bydd y Bil hwn yn atal caffael ar gyfer cyrff cyhoeddus, ac y gallent hyd yn oed gael eu dal yn wystlon pe gwneir gofynion afrealistig. Er enghraifft, mae comisiynydd cenedlaethau'r dyfodol wedi gosod cynsail ar gyfer annog wythnos waith pedwar diwrnod, y gallai undebau llafur neu gynrychiolwyr gweithwyr eraill ofyn amdani, ac nad yw'n bosibl i gorff cyhoeddus, fel y byddwch yn cytuno heb amheuaeth. Felly, gyda hyn mewn golwg, hoffwn ddeall beth yw cynllun Llywodraeth Cymru os yw undeb llafur wedi cychwyn gweithredu'n ddiwydiannol yn erbyn corff cyhoeddus. Os oes anghydfod, yn fy marn i, gallai undebau llafur fod yn ddigon parod i wrthod cymeradwyo neu dynnu cymeradwyaeth yn ôl oni bai bod eu hamodau'n cael eu bodloni, a fyddai'n golygu y byddai cyrff cyhoeddus yn methu cyflawni eu dyletswyddau statudol. Felly, gyda hyn mewn golwg, Ddirprwy Weinidog, beth sy'n atal undebau llafur rhag defnyddio'r pwerau statudol yn y Bil hwn i ddwyn pwysau mewn anghydfodau undebau llafur?