English: We are confident. But, of course, we've spent some time looking at the evidence that you, as a committee, have gathered. I see that you had an expert adviser to provide you with a report, and I welcome that. That is certainly good practice. Wearing my Finance Committee hat, I would encourage other committees to do as you have done, where appropriate. So, I congratulate you on that. I do accept that we need to strike the right balance here between the expenditure on the public services ombudsman's office - and any penny given to anything other than front-line public services is a penny lost, as it were. But you can take that argument to an absurd point, where you spend everything on the health service and nothing on other, supportive services. So, I come back to the point of where's the appropriate balance in ensuring that anyone involved in public services in Wales not only receives the service that they should expect in terms of front-line services, but also gets those support services if something should go wrong. We all, as Assembly Members, know that things do go wrong in public services from time to time - in health, education, care and so on. We've all dealt with those complaints. In an ideal world, there would be no problems at all in public services - everything would run superbly, but that's not the case. We must ensure that there is some sort of support available for citizens when things are remiss. Of course, expenditure must be appropriate and proportionate and must secure the right balance, but I do think that the purpose of this Bill is to ensure equality, to ensure that nobody is deprived of quality public services because they don't have the ability to complain themselves, and that they should have access to an independent advocate to secure that. Just to say why we, as the Finance Committee, are generally confident in the figures - and we are very open to looking at the different scenarios that have been described in the committee, of course, and your expert adviser's report too. But the figures are based on the experiences of the office at present, the current costs of dealing with complaints, the costs of dealing with other organisations, and the costs of other organisations. In carrying out this RIA, we asked the ombudsman specifically to contact the local authorities and to contact the health bodies in order to ensure that the costs in the RIA are costs that are fair and, generally speaking, in our view, reflect the real cost. So, it's a matter of opinion, then, whether the expenditure on the ombudsman's services is proportionate, or whether we should be spending all the money on front-line services. But if you do that then you won't have that support for people who are affected by poor services.
Welsh: Rydym ni'n hyderus. Ond, wrth gwrs, rydym ni wedi treulio amser yn edrych ar y dystiolaeth rŷch chi wedi ei derbyn fel pwyllgor. Rydw i wedi gweld eich bod chi wedi cael ymgynghorydd arbenigol hefyd i roi adroddiad i chi, ac rydw i'n croesawu hynny'n fawr iawn. Mae hwnnw'n arfer da. Gan wisgo'r het Pwyllgor Cyllid, mae'n arfer da y byddai'r Pwyllgor Cyllid yn annog i bwyllgorau ei wneud pan fo'n briodol. Felly, da iawn chi am wneud hynny. Rydw i'n derbyn bod yn rhaid i ni gael y cydbwysedd yn iawn fan hyn rhwng y gwario ar swyddfa'r ombwdsmon gwasanaethau cyhoeddus - ac, wrth gwrs, mae pob ceiniog sy'n cael ei rhoi at unrhyw bwrpas arall ond pwrpas y gwasanaethau front line, fel petai, yn geiniog sy'n cael ei cholli yn yr ystyr yna. Ond, wrth gwrs, fe fedrwch chi fynd â'r ddadl yna i ryw fath o bwynt absẃrd, hefyd, lle rydych chi'n gwario pob ceiniog ar y gwasanaeth iechyd a dim ar unrhyw wasanaethau cefnogol eraill. So, rwy'n dod nôl at y pwynt o le mae'r cydbwysedd yn briodol er mwyn sicrhau bod unrhyw un sy'n ymwneud â gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru nid yn unig yn cael y gwasanaeth sydd yn ddyledus iddyn nhw o ran y gwasanaethau rheng flaen, ond hefyd yn cael gwasanaethau cefnogol os oes rhywbeth yn mynd o'i le. Rŷm ni i gyd, fel Aelodau Cynulliad, yn gwybod fod pethau'n mynd o'i le o fewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus - yn y maes iechyd, addysg, gofal ac ati. Rŷm ni i gyd wedi delio â'r cwynion hynny. Mewn byd perffaith, wrth gwrs, ni fyddai unrhyw broblem o fewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus - fe fydden nhw i gyd yn gweithio fel watsh, ond nid ydyn nhw. Felly, mae'n rhaid i ni sicrhau bod yna ryw fath o gefnogaeth i ddinasyddion pan fo pethau'n mynd o'i le. Wrth gwrs, mae'n rhaid i wariant fod yn briodol ac yn gymesur ac yn sicrhau'r cydbwysedd iawn, ond rydw i'n credu mai pwrpas y Bil yma yw sicrhau cydraddoldeb, sicrhau bod neb yn cael eu hamddifadu o wasanaethau cyhoeddus da oherwydd nad oes ganddyn nhw'r gallu i gwyno ei hunain, fel petai, a bod ganddyn nhw fynediad at rywun annibynnol i sicrhau hynny. Jest i ddweud hefyd pam ein bod ni, fel Pwyllgor Cyllid, yn gyffredinol hyderus yn y ffigurau - ac rydym ni'n agored iawn i edrych ar wahanol senarios sydd wedi cael eu disgrifio yn y pwyllgor, wrth gwrs, ac adroddiad eich arbenigwr chi hefyd. Ond mae'r ffigurau'n seiliedig ar brofiad y swyddfa ar hyn o bryd, y gost bresennol o ddelio â chwynion, y gost o ddelio â chyrff eraill, a'r costau y mae'r cyrff eraill yn ymwneud â nhw. Wrth wneud yr RIA yma, fe wnaethom ni ofyn i'r ombwdsmon yn benodol i gysylltu â'r awdurdodau lleol ac i gysylltu â'r cyrff iechyd i sicrhau bod y costau sy'n cael eu hadlewyrchu yn yr asesiad yn gostau sy'n deg ac, yn sicr, yn ein barn ni, yn gyffredinol yn adlewyrchu'r gwir gost. Felly, mater o farn yw e wedyn a ydy'r gwario ar wasanaethau'r ombwdsmon yn gymesur, neu a ddylid gwario yr arian i gyd ar wasanaethau rheng flaen. Ond, wrth gwrs, os gwnewch chi hynny, ni fydd gyda chi'r gefnogaeth i bobl sy'n cael eu heffeithio gan wasanaethau gwael yn y pen draw.