techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: I'm not quite sure what the question was here, but I do think that we need criteria for future commemorations, and we need to use some sort of criteria in looking at what's happening now, but also we need to look at each case on its individual merit. I agree with Deian in what he says, but, of course, every commemoration from the past reflects that particular time. And the question here is how we deal with that. Do we say, 'Yes, fine, it is what it is'? But history is not a statue; the statue reflects history. And we come back to the point of the importance of explaining, but also ensuring that all factions of society are more inclusive and do support what we see on our streets and - a good word used by Merfyn - that we don't cause pain to some minority groups in society who aren't part of the dominant culture.
Welsh: Dwi ddim cweit yn siwr beth y gofynnwyd i ni fan hyn, ond rwy'n meddwl bod angen meini prawf am rai rydym ni'n creu yn y dyfodol, a defnyddio rhyw fath o feini prawf am beth sy'n digwydd nawr ond, ar yr un pryd, i edrych ar bob un achos unigol. Rwy'n cytuno â Deian ynglŷn â beth mae e'n ei ddweud ond, wrth gwrs, mae pob cerflun yn y gorffennol yn adlewyrchu'r oes ohoni. A'r cwestiwn canolog yw sut ydym ni'n delio â hwnna. Ydym ni'n dweud, 'Wel, ie, iawn, oce, dyna beth yw e'? Ond nid hanes yw cerflun; mae cerflun yn adlewyrchu hanes. Ac, felly, rydym ni'n dod yn ôl at y pwynt o bwysigrwydd egluro, ond hefyd i wneud yn siwr bod y carfanau i gyd mewn cymdeithas yn fwy cynhwysol ac yn cefnogi beth rydym ni yn ei weld ar hyd y strydoedd ac - gair da gan Merfyn, dwi'n meddwl - nad ydym ni'n achosi'r fath boen i rai grwpiau lleiafrifol yn y gymdeithas sy'n mynd yn erbyn, dywedwch, y diwylliant dominyddol, ac ati.
English: I tend to agree that we do need criteria, but I don't think it's easy to decide on what the criteria should be. Perhaps it would be possible to have some very general criteria that could guide people's decision making, but, if you look at what exists across Wales or the UK now, there are all sorts of reasons as to why we have those commemorations. It's difficult to generalise in this area. But I do think it's possible to say that, in the future, we perhaps should look at ensuring that there is no direct link with things such as slavery or empire, that we should look at women's contribution to society, and that we should appreciate those people who have made a contribution but perhaps weren't wealthy. So, it is possible to have some criteria, but I wouldn't see them becoming too restrictive, or we will find ourselves in difficulty once again. Also, of course, our art is something that's important - I'm thinking of some of the Goscombe John memorials, which are wonderful as pieces of art. That's an important part of this debate, too.
Welsh: Dwi'n tueddu i gytuno bod angen rhai meini prawf, ond dwi ddim yn credu ei bod hi'n hawdd penderfynu beth ddylen nhw fod. Efallai ei bod hi'n bosib cael rhyw fath o feini prawf cyffredinol iawn sy'n arwain at sut y dylai pobl ddod i benderfyniad, ond, os edrychwch chi ar beth sydd yna yn gyhoeddus ar draws Cymru neu ar draws gwledydd Prydain heddiw, mae bob math o resymau pam mae'r delweddau yna o'n blaenau ni. Mae'n anodd cyffredinoli yn y maes yma. Ond dwi'n credu y buasai'n bosib dweud y dylem ni yn y dyfodol edrych i sicrhau nad oes cysylltiad uniongyrchol gyda phethau fel caethwasiaeth neu'r ymerodraeth, y dylem ni edrych ar gyfraniad merched i'n cymdeithas, ac y dylem ni werthfawrogi pobl sydd wedi gwneud cyfraniad ond a oedd efallai ddim yn gyfoethog. Mae'n bosib cael rhyw fath o feini prawf, ond buaswn i ddim am weld y rheini'n mynd yn rhai rhy haearnaidd, felly, neu mi fyddem ni mewn dŵr poeth eto dwi'n credu. Mae hefyd, wrth gwrs, ein bywyd celfyddydol yn rhywbeth sy'n bwysig - meddwl am rai o gofgolofnau Goscombe John o gwmpas y lle; maen nhw mor wych fel celfyddyd. Mae hwnna hefyd yn rhan bwysig o'r ddadl, dwi'n credu.
English: Just to follow up on that point - and this is looking more to the future, of course - I have a great deal of sympathy with the idea, criticised by some, that we should move away from statues of individuals and look at having a more artistic memorial, rather than a traditional statue, because that can represent more groups within society, rather than just looking at individuals. Also, we must bear in mind that erecting memorials is very expensive. These are major pieces, and that's part of the problem. I know, in the United States, that with the removal of some statues to those who were prominent in the confederate states, they just leave the plinth and the pedestal. Well, on the one hand, that might appear foolish, but, on the other hand, there is the possibility here of showing something not only about the individual, but also that there was a contentious history behind that individual not just in the past, but today also as society changes.
Welsh: Jest i ddilyn y pwynt - ac mae hwn yn fwy at y dyfodol, wrth gwrs - mae gennyf lot o gydymdeimlad â'r syniad, sy'n cael ei farnu gan rai, i symud i ffwrdd o ddelweddau, sef delw y person, ac i symud draw at fwy o syniad o gael rhyw fath o gofeb mwy celfyddydol yn hytrach na delw, achos mae hwnna'n gallu cynrychioli mwy o grwpiau mewn cymdeithas, nid jest unigolion yn unig. Hefyd, mae'n rhaid inni gofio bod rhoi cofebion lan yn gostus ofnadwy. Mae'r rhain yn fawr, onid ŷn nhw? Dyna beth o'r broblem. Dwi'n gwybod, yn yr Unol Daleithiau, fod rhai wedi cael gwared â rhai o'r cerfluniau i'r bobl oedd yn flaenllaw yn y taleithiau cyd-ffederal a jest wedi gadael y plinth a'r pedestal. Wel, ar un ochr, mae hwnna'n swnio'n dwp, ond, ar yr ochr arall, efallai fod yna bosibliadau fan hyn i ddangos nid yn unig y person, ond hefyd fod yna hanes dadleuol wedi bod tu ôl i'r person yna nid jest yn y gorffennol, ond yn dal i fod heddiw fel mae cymdeithas yn newid.
English: Could I add one thing? I think we need to differentiate here - to build on what Bill said - between individuals and movements. You can have a statue or a commemoration to a movement or to a particular cause or an event. If we look at what happened in Cardiff the year before last in commemorating the race riots in Cardiff, nobody has been aware of those events apart from the community itself. Now that there is a memorial, I don't think that anyone will cast doubt on those events. The same is true of a movement such as the franchise of women and the suffragettes. Erecting commemorations to individuals is far more dangerous, because you don't know everything about any individual. Did you know that Iolo Morgannwg was a slave owner? I'm not sure people were aware of that. To a certain extent, we have to look holistically at this.
Welsh: A allaf i ychwanegu un peth? Rwy'n credu bod rhaid gwahaniaethu - adeiladu ar yr hyn roedd Bill yn ei ddweud - rhwng unigolion a mudiadau. Gallwch chi gael cerflun neu ryw gofeb i fudiad neu i achos a ddigwyddodd neu ddigwyddiad. I gymryd yr hyn ddigwyddodd yng Nghaerdydd y flwyddyn cyn diwethaf yn cofio'r anghydfod, y terfysg hiliol yng Nghaerdydd, a doedd neb wedi bod yn ymwybodol o hynny ar wahân i'r gymuned. Nawr fod yna gerflun yn cofio'r achos yna, dwi ddim yn credu bod neb yn mynd i amau hynny. Mae'r un peth yn wir gyda mudiad fel etholfraint gwragedd ac yn y blaen. Mae codi un i unigolion yn wahanol - mae hynny'n llawer mwy peryglus, achos dydych chi ddim yn gwybod popeth amdanyn nhw. Oeddech chi'n gwybod bod Iolo Morgannwg yn berchen ar gaethweision? Dydw i ddim siŵr bod pobl yn sylweddoli hynny. I ryw raddau, mae'n rhaid i ni edrych yn gyfan gwbl.
English: I just wanted to clarify that I don't believe that. We do need to commemorate those people who are worthy of commemoration but haven't been commemorated in the past. That is what we should focus on.
Welsh: Ro'n i jest eisiau dweud yn glir fy mod i'n meddwl yn wahanol. Eisiau cofebion i'r bobl sy'n deilwng o gael eu coffáu ond sydd ddim wedi cael hynny hyd yn hyn yw beth y dylem ni ganolbwyntio arno.
English: Turning to Welsh - . I do believe that it's important that we have some context, that we understand why we have any sort of statue or commemoration there in the first instance. Is it needed? Ultimately, having something that reflects where we are now, a piece of artwork, would be better than some statue, which, generally speaking, are quite disappointing. Thinking of George IV -
Welsh: Yn troi at y Gymraeg - . Dwi'n credu ei fod yn bwysig ein bod ni'n cael rhyw fath o gyd-destun, ein bod ni'n sylweddoli pam rŷn ni'n cael rhywbeth yn y canol. Pam ŷn ni'n cael unrhyw fath o gerflun yno yn y lle cyntaf? Oes eisiau ei gael e? Yn y pen draw, efallai fod cael rhywbeth sydd yn adlewyrchu ble ŷn ni nawr, yn gelfyddyd, yn arluniaeth ac yn y blaen, yn well na rhyw gerflun sydd, ar y cyfan, mae'n rhaid dweud, yn eithaf siomedig. Yn meddwl am Siôr IV -
English: It's certainly something that we can discuss further. Bill or Merfyn, do you want to come in here? Bill.
Welsh: Mae'n rhywbeth y gallwn ni ei drafod ymhellach. Bill neu Merfyn, ydych chi eisiau dod i mewn ar hwn? Bill.
English: We need far more explanation alongside these commemorations - something that adds to them. We have the technology. You could use an app. You could use all sorts of things to say, 'This is here, but this is the history behind it, and that's why this is important.' So, it's not just there, but that you understand why it's there, who put it there, and what it means, and what its significance is. That comes back to children, schools, and the curriculum, in my view.
Welsh: Mae eisiau cael llawer mwy o esboniad gyda'r cerfluniau yma, efallai - rhywbeth sydd yn ychwanegu atynt. Mae gyda ni'r dechnoleg. Fe allwch chi ddefnyddio ap. Gallwch chi ddefnyddio pob math o bethau i ddweud, 'Mae hwn yma, ond dyma ydy'r hanes, a dyna ydy pwysigrwydd y peth yma.' Felly, ei fod e ddim jest yno, ond buasech chi'n deall pam mae ef yno, pwy roddodd ef yno, a beth mae'n ei olygu, a beth yw'r ddadl. Mae hynny'n dod yn ôl i blant, ysgolion a'r cwricwlwm, hefyd, yn fy nhyb i.
English: I'm not familiar with the commemoration in Cardiff, but there is also one in Caernarfon - and I think that's on the hillside looking over the town in a very important location - and that is a commemoration of the South African war. Somehow, that encapsulates all the complexities behind any sort of public commemoration - and there is a Pretoria Terrace, by the way, also in Caernarfon, because of the war in South Africa - because on the one hand, you have this major commemoration overlooking the town, but the MP for Carnarvon Boroughs, of course, was very opposed to that war, and I'm talking here, of course, of David Lloyd George. So, there is this complexity that you have this major commemoration, but on the other hand, it was clear that there was a crucially important political cohort at the time who were opposed to that war. There were the two factions, but there is only one commemoration. So, the commemoration is there to the war, but there is nothing there to commemorate the fact that the local MP was opposed to that campaign. And that's why some of these things are so difficult to encapsulate; you need the context and you need education around these issues.
Welsh: Dwi ddim yn gyfarwydd â'r gofeb yng Nghaerdydd, ond mae yna un hefyd yng Nghaernarfon - a dwi'n credu bod hwnna ar ben y bryn yn edrych dros y dref i gyd mewn lle pwysig iawn yn y dref - i'r rhyfel yn Ne Affrica. Rhywsut, mae hwnna'n crisialu'r cymhlethdod o unrhyw fath o gofgolofn ac unrhyw fath o gofio cyhoeddus - ac mae yna Pretoria street, gyda llaw, hefyd yng Nghaernarfon oherwydd y rhyfel yn Ne Affrica - oherwydd, ar yr un llaw, mae gennych chi'r gofgolofn fawr yma'n edrych dros y dref i gyd, ond mi roedd Aelod Seneddol Carnarvon Boroughs, wrth gwrs, yn wrthwynebus iawn, iawn i'r rhyfel yn Ne Affrica, sef David Lloyd George. So, dŷch chi'n cael y cymhlethdod yma fan hyn bod y golofn yn cofio, ond ar y llaw arall, ei bod hi'n amlwg iawn bod yna garfan wleidyddol bwysig - hollbwysig yn y cyd-destun yma - yn gwrthwynebu'r rhyfel. Ac mi oedd yna ddwy garfan, ond un cofgolofn sydd yna. So, mae'r gofgolofn yna'n cofio'r rhyfel, ond does dim byd yna i gofio'r ffaith bod yr Aelod Seneddol lleol yn gwrthwynebu'r rhyfel. A dyna sydd yn codi, rhywsut. Dyna sut mae rhai o'r pethau yma mor anodd i'w crisialu; mae angen y cyd-destun ac mae angen addysgu o gwmpas y golofn.
English: Thank you. Bill, did you want to add to that?
Welsh: Diolch. Bill, ydych chi eisiau ychwanegu at hyn?
English: If I could just say that the example you mention in Cardiff is a good example of where more explanation and clarity is needed in terms of the contentious nature of the history, but also that we should remember that a commemoration is not history; a commemoration has history. And that's what's important to convey to the audience so that they can understand it better.
Welsh: Dim ond i ddweud dwi'n credu bod yr un sydd yng Nghaerdydd yn enghraifft dda o le bod angen cael fwy o eglurhad ac i egluro am natur ddadleuol yr hanes, yn y lle cyntaf, ond hefyd i ni gofio taw nid hanes yw cofeb; mae gan gofeb hanes. A dyna beth sydd yn bwysig i drosglwyddo i gynulleidfa i ddeall y peth yn well.
English: Well, I think that's a very interesting issue, because it's not as simple as placing them all in a museum. I think whatever happens to some of these commemorations, we do also have to consider what we're going to do with them and where we're going to put them, whether it's the national museum or local museum, there are costs attached to placing these items in museums. But it is a question as to where would be the best place to keep these, because I wouldn't be in favour of simply destroying them. To return to the point I made earlier, you have to explain the reasons why this has become contentious and what that tells us about the history underpinning the statue or commemoration in the first place.
Welsh: Wel, dwi'n credu bod hwnna'n fater diddorol, achos dyw e ddim mor hawdd â jest rhoi nhw mewn amgueddfa. Dwi'n credu beth bynnag sydd yn digwydd i rai o'r cofebion yma, mae'n rhaid ystyried hefyd beth ni'n mynd i wneud gyda nhw a ble i'w rhoi nhw: ai amgueddfa leol, yr amgueddfa genedlaethol, ac ati? Ac yna sôn am y gost a phopeth felly fydd ynghlwm wrth yr holl beth. Ond mae yn gwestiwn lle byddai'r lle gorau i gadw'r rhain, achos byddwn i ddim o blaid jest cael gwared â nhw'n llwyr - mae'n rhaid cael rhywbeth. Achos, i fynd yn ôl at y pwynt ro'n i'n dweud gynnau, mae'n rhaid cyfleu'r rhesymau pam mae hwn wedi dod yn ddadleuol a hefyd wedyn pam mae hynny ynglŷn â'r hanes y tu ôl i'r gerflun yn y lle cyntaf.
English: Yes, I would agree. I think that these commemorations are evidence of one sort or another, and we need to be able to evaluate and understand them. So, it's not a matter of destroying them or removing them entirely, but there is a huge question as to what you do with them, particularly with the Picton tower - I don't know what on earth one would do with that, it's on such a scale.
Welsh: Ie, buaswn i'n cytuno. Dwi'n credu bod y cerfluniau yma'n dystiolaeth o ryw fath, ac mae angen i ni allu'u gwerthuso nhw a'u deall nhw. Felly, nid mater o'u diddymu nhw'n llwyr ydy o, ond dwi'n cytuno ei bod hi'n gwestiwn mawr, mawr, beth i wneud efo nhw, yn enwedig efo tŵr Picton - gwn i ddim beth ar wyneb y ddaear y buasai rhywun yn ei wneud efo hwnna, mae cymaint o faint arno fo.
English: Thank you, Chair. Following up on David's question, how have other nations dealt with this question? Statues have been toppled in a number of countries, particularly in eastern Europe, so where should we look to see examples of how they've dealt with these issues?
Welsh: Diolch, Gadeirydd. I ddilyn cwestiwn David, sut mae gwledydd eraill wedi delio â'r cwestiwn hwn? Mae cerfluniau wedi eu tynnu lawr mewn sawl gwlad, yn enwedig yn nwyrain Ewrop dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, felly ble allwn ni edrych i weld enghreifftiau o sut maen nhw wedi delio â'r broblem hon?
English: There's a huge statue in Pretoria - the Voortrekker Monument. That's a perfect example. The apartheid museums are wonderful examples. I've referred to Budapest and the huge park there, and that's the place for statues. We have plenty of space. You could find someone's garden - a larger garden, perhaps, and put them all there. But I do think that other nations have been far more aware of this as an issue. Germany, certainly, has been aware of this because they have had to face a very difficult and complex history. Some nations, unfortunately, haven't actually faced up to these issues, and there are certain countries in eastern Europe that are slipping back in terms of their awareness. It's important that we realise that this is a global issue. You're quite right, Carwyn, we do have to seek examples of the best way of dealing with these issues, whilst realising that in all nations there is debate. In all nations there are people who want to preserve these statues and people who want to see them gone.
Welsh: Mae yna gerflun enfawr yn Pretoria - y Voortrekker Monument. Mae hwnna'n enghraifft berffaith o rywun sydd wedi amgylchynu un. Mae'r amgueddfeydd ar apartheid yn enghreifftiau arbennig o dda. Dwi wedi cyfeirio at Budapest a'r parc enfawr. Dyna chi le i'r cerfluniau; mae yna ddigon o le gyda ni. Gallwch chi ffeindio gardd rhywun - gardd rhywun cyfoethog a'u dodi nhw i gyd fanna. Ond hynny ydy, dwi yn credu bod gwledydd eraill wedi bod yn llawer mwy ymwybodol o hyn. Mae'r Almaen wedi bod yn llawer mwy ymwybodol o hyn achos maen nhw wedi gorfod wynebu hanes anodd dros ben, ac felly, maen nhw wedi gwneud hyn. Dyw rhai gwledydd, yn anffodus, ddim wedi wynebu hyn, a gallaf feddwl am rai gwledydd yn nwyrain Ewrop sydd efallai yn llithro yn ôl yn eu hymwybyddiaeth. Ac efallai mae'n bwysig ein bod ni yn sylweddoli mai rhywbeth byd-eang ydy hyn. Rŷch chi'n iawn, Carwyn; mae'n rhaid inni gael enghreifftiau o'r ffordd orau i ddelio â hyn a sylweddoli, ym mhob gwlad, bod yna ddadl. Ym mhob gwlad mae yna bobl sydd yn moyn cadw'r cerfluniau a phobl sydd yn moyn cael gwared arnyn nhw.
English: Merfyn or Bill, do you want to come in on that international question? Merfyn.
Welsh: Merfyn neu Bill, ydych chi eisiau dod i mewn ar y cwestiwn rhyngwladol yna? Merfyn.
English: Well, I think Deian is spot on. This is a debate across the world, certainly in South Africa, in my experience. There are ongoing debates on these issues, but they have also ensured - if you think of Cape Town and the image of Mandela and Desmond Tutu - there are plenty of new images. But how does one maintain the old and the new? It's a very interesting question, and I think there is some research to be done here, certainly in eastern Europe. What's interesting is that there are still a fair few statues of Lenin and Stalin in the old Soviet Union. It's incredible how many of them have survived.
Welsh: Wel, dwi'n credu bod Deian yn llygad ei le. Mae hyn yn ddadl ym mhobman, ac yn sicr yn Ne Affrica, yn fy mhrofiad i. Mae yna ddadleuon cyson yn parhau, ond maen nhw hefyd wedi gwneud yn sicr bod yna ddigon o - dwi'n meddwl am Cape Town a'r llun o Desmond Tutu a Mandela ac ati - mae yna ddigon o ddelweddau newydd hefyd. Ond sut mae rhywun yn cynnal yr hen a'r newydd? Mae o'n gwestiwn difyr iawn, ond dwi'n credu efallai bod yna faes ymchwil i rywun, yn sicr yn nwyrain Ewrop. Beth sy'n ddiddorol yn y fanna, wrth gwrs, ydy bod eithaf lot o Lenin a Stalin yn dal ar ôl mewn llefydd yn yr hen Undeb Sofietaidd. Mae'n rhyfeddol faint ohonyn nhw sydd wedi goroesi.
English: I agree entirely that this is a debate that is happening internationally, and I think it's important that we say that, as we try and explain why we're having this debate and why it's contentious in terms of what we will do with all of these memorials. From what I understand, Belgium is very interesting in this context, and perhaps you'll hear more of that. But it just strikes me as being interesting, and I don't know, but I think we should ask as to what has happened to all of the statues to General Lee and suchlike in the United States, because a fair few of them have been toppled recently.
Welsh: Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr bod hwn yn ddadl sy'n mynd ymlaen ym mhob gwlad, a dwi'n credu bod hwnna'n bwysig i ddweud wrth inni drio egluro pam rŷn ni'n cael y fath yma o drafodaeth a pam mae e'n ddadleuol ynglŷn â beth rŷn ni'n mynd i wneud gyda'r cofebion yma i gyd. O beth dwi'n deall, mae gwlad Belg yn wlad diddorol o ran beth sy'n digwydd yn y fan honno, ond efallai clywch chi fwy amboutu hynny. Ond mae e jest yn fy nharo i'n ddiddorol, a dwi ddim yn gwybod, ond mae fe yn fy meddwl i i ofyn beth sydd wedi digwydd i'r cerfluniau i gyd oedd yn yr Unol Daleithiau i General Lee a phobl felly, achos mae cryn dipyn ohonyn nhw wedi cael eu dymchwel yn ddiweddar.
English: A park of hidden sculptures; that's what we're hearing there, I suppose. But the major question is this: where do you draw the line? We've talked today about certain people who were criticised when they were alive, and these days, there would never be a statue to commemorate them. Some have been criticised after their deaths, but where is that line? For example, there's one statue in Caernarfon and one in Cardiff of David Lloyd George. Now, his financial arrangements in the 1920s and 1930s were, let's say, unusual, compared to the standards of current times. So, should we topple the statues to Lloyd George as a result of that? I think most people would say 'no', but where do you draw the line? Is there a set of criteria that we can accept and say, 'Well, these are the criteria that should be considered in order to decide whether a statue should remain in place or not'?
Welsh: Parc y cerfluniau cudd, felly, dwi'n clywed yn fanna. Ond y cwestiwn mawr yw hwn, yntefe: ble mae'r llinell yn cael ei thynnu? Dŷn ni wedi sôn heddiw am rai pobl oedd wedi cael eu beirniadu pan oedden nhw'n fyw, ac efallai yn y dyddiau hyn, bydden nhw byth yn cael cerflun i'w cofio nhw; rhai, wrth gwrs, sydd wedi cael beirniadaeth ar ôl iddyn nhw farw. Ond ble mae'r llinell? Er enghraifft, mae yna gerfluniau - mae un yng Nghaernarfon, un yng Nghaerdydd - o David Lloyd George. Nawr, roedd ei drefniadau ariannol e yn y 1920au a'r 1930au efallai yn anarferol o gymharu â safonau'r oes hwn. A ddylen ni ddymchwel ei gerfluniau fe o achos hwnna? Byddai'r rhan fwyaf o bobl, buaswn i'n meddwl, yn dweud 'na'. Ond ble mae'r llinell? Oes yna feini prawf y gallwn ni eu derbyn er mwyn dweud, 'Wel, y rhain yw'r meini prawf ddylai gael eu hystyried er mwyn penderfynu a ddylai cerflun aros yna neu beidio'?
English: Well, I'm sure -
Welsh: Wel, rwy'n siŵr byddai -
English: I'm sure each and every one of us would have our individual views as to where that line should be drawn, but it's important to say that it's not up to us to say where that line should be drawn. That's the importance of having a broad consultation on these issues, so that we can bring this debate into the public sphere and that we can deal with the more difficult issues of our past. As I said earlier, I tend to think that the agenda should be to ensure that cohorts in society who haven't previously been represented in terms of their own heroes and heroines - that they should be included so that you have that balance. In future, perhaps the important issue won't be statues, but issues around place names and so on.
Welsh: Rwy'n siŵr bod gan bob un ohonom ni farn unigol am ble mae'r linell yna, ond y pwynt pwysig yw, efallai, nad yw hi lan i ni i ddweud ble mae'r linell, a'r pwysigrwydd o ryw fath o ymgynghoriad eang ynglŷn â'r pethau yma fel modd o ddod â'r ddadl yma yn fwy cyhoeddus ac inni wynebu agweddau mwy caled ac anodd ar ein gorffennol ni. Fel y dywedais i o'r blaen, dwi'n tueddu meddwl taw'r agenda ddylai fod i wneud yn siŵr bod y carfannau mewn cymdeithas sydd ddim wedi cael eu cynrychioli o safbwynt eu harwyr a'u harwresau nhw - bod y rheini yn cael eu codi er mwyn inni gael rhyw fath o gydbwysedd. Yn y dyfodol, efallai, nid y pwysigrwydd fydd cerfluniau, ond mwy i wneud gydag enwau lleoedd ac ati.