techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: I fully accept what the finance Secretary says there. Obviously, if we are going to have such a tax, we do need to realise that the behavioural effects that it might bring about can also be in the opposite direction - a point to which I'll come in a minute. Although, this is generally thought of as a problem to be addressed in urban areas, there is a potential impact on rural areas too. A rural surveyor for Country Land and Business Association Cymru, Charles De Winton, says that 'Small rural plots may not be viable to develop. A tax which forces them into development will inevitably increase the cost of development - a cost which will passed-on to the end-user. This does not help us tackle the crisis in availability of rural homes.' The CLA's research in Wales suggested that over a third of the £1.3 billion annually into the economy by rural landowners was already put into residential development. One of the big problems with development sites is, of course, planning permission and the delays that, sometimes, that can bring about. So, potential developers often find themselves unwillingly in a situation where they're sitting on vacant land. We know around us here in Cardiff Bay there are lots of what might appear to be prime sites that still remain to be developed because there are no buyers for one reason or another. So, this is a matter that must be dealt with sensitively and with some delicacy.
Welsh: Rwy'n derbyn yr hyn a ddywed yr Ysgrifennydd cyllid yn llwyr. Yn amlwg, os ydym am gael treth o'r fath, mae angen inni sylweddoli y gall yr effeithiau ymddygiadol y gallai eu hachosi fod yn groes i hynny hefyd - pwynt y dof ato yn y man. Er y credir yn gyffredinol fod hon yn broblem y mae angen mynd i'r afael â hi mewn ardaloedd trefol, mae effaith bosibl ar ardaloedd gwledig hefyd. Yn ôl syrfëwr gwledig ar gyfer Cymdeithas Tir a Busnesau Cefn Gwlad Cymru, Charles De Winton, Efallai na fydd datblygu rhai plotiau gwledig bach yn ymarferol. Mae'n anochel y bydd treth sy'n eu gorfodi i gael eu datblygu yn cynyddu cost eu datblygu - cost a fydd yn cael ei throsglwyddo i'r defnyddiwr terfynol. Nid yw hyn o gymorth inni fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng o ran argaeledd cartrefi gwledig. Awgrymai ymchwil y Gymdeithas Tir a Busnesau Cefn Gwlad yng Nghymru fod mwy na thraean o'r £1.3 biliwn sy'n mynd i mewn i'r economi'n flynyddol gan dirfeddianwyr gwledig eisoes yn mynd i mewn i ddatblygu preswyl. Un o'r problemau mawr gyda safleoedd datblygu, wrth gwrs, yw caniatâd cynllunio a'r oedi a all ddeillio o hynny weithiau. Felly, mae datblygwyr posibl yn aml mewn sefyllfa lle maent yn eistedd ar dir gwag yn erbyn eu hewyllys. Gwyddom fod llawer o safleoedd o'n cwmpas yma ym Mae Caerdydd sy'n edrych fel safleoedd ardderchog ond sy'n parhau i fod heb eu datblygu am nad oes prynwyr am ba reswm bynnag. Felly, mae hwn yn fater y dylid mynd i'r afael ag ef mewn ffordd sensitif a gofalus.
English: All the points the Member makes are important points and ones that we would wish to take seriously. No finance Minister, when the detailed work is done, should that work demonstrate that a potential tax would create more problems than it would solve - nobody would want to take it further forward. So, these are important points and ones we will definitely want to consider. I recognise the point the Member makes about rural communities and the fact that development often takes longer for specific reasons. But I just repeat the point that I made to him at the very beginning: a vacant land tax is not intended to bear down on those people who are making every effort to bring land into productive use. You've got to design it in a way that makes sure that people who are doing everything they can are not captured by it, while providing an additional incentive for those people - and we do believe that this does exist in the Welsh economy, just as the Chancellor of the Exchequer was anxious that it existed in the London economy - who should be bringing land forward for productive use, but who choose not to do it, in order simply to speculate for a windfall gain.
Welsh: Mae'r holl bwyntiau a wnaeth yr Aelod yn rhai pwysig ac yn bwyntiau y byddem yn dymuno bod o ddifrif yn eu cylch. Ni fyddai unrhyw Weinidog cyllid, pan fydd y gwaith manwl wedi'i gwblhau, os yw'r gwaith hwnnw'n dangos y byddai treth bosibl yn creu mwy o broblemau nag y byddai'n eu datrys - ni fyddai unrhyw un yn awyddus i fwrw ymlaen â hi. Felly, mae'r rhain yn bwyntiau pwysig, ac yn sicr, maent yn rhai y byddwn yn awyddus i'w hystyried. Rwy'n cydnabod pwynt yr Aelod ynglŷn â chymunedau gwledig a bod datblygu'n aml yn cymryd mwy o amser am resymau penodol. Ond fe ailadroddaf y pwynt a wneuthum ar y dechrau un: nid bwriad treth ar dir gwag yw cosbi'r bobl sy'n gwneud pob ymdrech i sicrhau bod tir yn cael ei ddefnyddio at ddibenion cynhyrchiol. Mae'n rhaid i chi ei chynllunio mewn ffordd sy'n sicrhau nad yw pobl sy'n gwneud popeth yn eu gallu yn cael eu cosbi ganddi, gan ddarparu cymhelliad ychwanegol - a chredwn fod hyn yn bodoli yn economi Cymru, yn yr un modd ag yr oedd Canghellor y Trysorlys yn bryderus ei fod yn bodoli yn economi Llundain - ar gyfer y bobl a ddylai fod yn cyflwyno tir at ddibenion cynhyrchiol, ond sy'n dewis peidio â gwneud hynny, yn y gobaith o wneud elw hawdd.
English: I'd like to turn to another tax now to explore the impact on behaviour. It seems, in the case of the sugar tax, imposed now by the Westminster Government, that the Welsh Government is due to get £47 million in extra funding over two years because of spending in England linked to that. Forecasts of what the levy would raise have fallen from £520 million to £240 million. The behavioural changes that the sugar tax has brought about already are that Coca-Cola, for example, have reduced the size of their standard regular Coke cans from 330 ml to 250 ml, although that hasn't led to a similar reduction in price in many cases. So, now we could find ourselves in a situation where, instead of buying a third of a litre in a can, people are buying two cans of quarter of a litre. So, they're buying actually more sugary drink than before, at a higher price. So, this would be a perverse outcome for such a tax to bring about. But Wales has a significant problem with obesity - worse than any other part of the UK - with 59 per cent of adults, apparently, overweight - I'm probably one of them - and 23 per cent classed as obese. As to the allocation of the money that is raised, can the Cabinet Secretary confirm whether the Welsh Government is going to allocate this money to solve the problem of obesity predominantly, whilst not regarding it as a wholly hypothecated tax? If it is raised for the purpose of changing behaviour, then the money that is going to be spent from that revenue should be directed towards the problem that it is intended to solve.
Welsh: Hoffwn droi at dreth arall yn awr i archwilio'r effaith ar ymddygiad. Yn achos y dreth siwgr, a orfodir bellach gan Lywodraeth San Steffan, ymddengys y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael £47 miliwn o gyllid ychwanegol dros ddwy flynedd o ganlyniad i wariant sy'n gysylltiedig â hynny yn Lloegr. Mae'r rhagolygon o faint y byddai'r ardoll yn ei godi wedi gostwng o £520 miliwn i £240 miliwn. Gwelir newidiadau mewn ymddygiad eisoes o ganlyniad i'r dreth siwgr wrth i Coca-Cola, er enghraifft, leihau maint eu caniau Coke arferol o 330 ml i 250 ml, er nad yw hynny wedi arwain at ostyngiad tebyg yn y pris mewn llawer o achosion. Felly, erbyn hyn, gallem fod mewn sefyllfa lle mae pobl, yn hytrach na phrynu un rhan o dair o litr mewn can, yn prynu dau gan chwarter litr. Felly, mewn gwirionedd, maent yn prynu mwy o ddiod llawn siwgr nag o'r blaen, am bris uwch. Felly, byddai hyn yn ganlyniad gwrthnysig i dreth o'r fath. Ond mae gan Gymru broblem sylweddol gyda gordewdra - gwaeth nag unrhyw ran arall o'r DU - gyda 59 y cant o oedolion, mae'n debyg, dros eu pwysau - mae'n debyg fy mod i'n un ohonynt - a 23 y cant wedi'u categoreiddio'n ordew. O ran dyraniad yr arian a godir, a all Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet gadarnhau a fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn dyrannu'r arian hwn yn bennaf ar gyfer datrys gordewdra, heb ei hystyried yn dreth a neilltuwyd yn gyfan gwbl? Os yw'r arian yn cael ei godi er mwyn newid ymddygiad, dylid cyfeirio'r arian a fydd yn cael ei wario o'r refeniw hwnnw at y broblem y bwriedir iddo'i datrys.
English: Well, Llywydd, I'll begin by welcoming the fact that manufacturers have taken action to reduce the sugar content in their products, and to reformulate the way in which products are brought to market in order to have a bearing on obesity. I regret the fact that the sugar tax was simply announced in a budget, without any reference to the devolved administrations, despite the fact that it has a direct bearing on our responsibilities. Therefore, we weren't able to contribute to a debate, which may have pointed to some of the potential unintended consequences of the tax as it currently stands. Money has been transferred to the Welsh budget as a result of it. It will partly help to take forward initiatives such as the preventable obesity programme that my colleague Vaughan Gething is undertaking, but it allows us to do other things as well. It allows us to support the programme of free healthy breakfasts in our primary schools; it helps us to introduce the new school holiday enrichment programme, which helps to feed children during the school holidays, who otherwise might go hungry; and it allows us to do a number of other things in the field that the Member mentioned, to help us to bear down on the problems of obesity, which are well-known and well-recognised.
Welsh: Wel, Lywydd, fe ddechreuaf drwy groesawu'r ffaith bod gweithgynhyrchwyr wedi cymryd camau i leihau faint o siwgr sydd yn eu cynnyrch, ac i ailffurfio'r ffordd y caiff cynhyrchion eu dwyn i'r farchnad er mwyn dylanwadu ar ordewdra. Rwy'n gresynu at y ffaith bod y dreth siwgr wedi'i chyhoeddi mewn cyllideb heb unrhyw gyfeiriad at y gweinyddiaethau datganoledig, er ei bod yn effeithio'n uniongyrchol ar ein cyfrifoldebau. Felly, nid oedd modd inni gyfrannu at ddadl a allai fod wedi tynnu sylw at rai o ganlyniadau anfwriadol posibl y dreth fel y mae ar hyn o bryd. Mae arian wedi'i drosglwyddo i gyllideb Cymru o ganlyniad i hynny. Bydd o gymorth, yn rhannol, i fwrw ymlaen â chynlluniau megis y rhaglen ordewdra ataliadwy y mae fy nghyd-Aelod Vaughan Gething yn ei rhoi ar waith, ond mae'n caniatáu inni wneud pethau eraill hefyd. Mae'n caniatáu inni gefnogi'r rhaglen brecwast iach am ddim yn ein hysgolion cynradd; mae'n ein cynorthwyo i gyflwyno'r rhaglen cyfoethogi gwyliau ysgol newydd, sy'n helpu i fwydo plant yn ystod gwyliau'r ysgol, a fyddai'n mynd heb fwyd fel arall; ac mae'n caniatáu inni wneud sawl peth arall yn y maes a grybwyllwyd gan yr Aelod, i'n helpu i ddylanwadu ar broblemau gordewdra, sy'n dra hysbys ac yn dra chyfarwydd.
English: Diolch, Llywydd. Can I just say that I've spied my former colleague on the Finance Committee, Peter Black, up in the gallery? It took me back to the last Assembly election, when we were looking forward to tax devolution as a distant, although approaching, inevitability. We are now the other side of that devolution. You said, in answer to Mark Reckless earlier, in relation to land transaction tax, which I want to question you about as well, that we are now in the period of collecting evidence about the introduction of the taxes, and the effect of those taxes, rather than mere speculation. If, as you said in answer to Mark Reckless, there does, at some point, appear to be an issue with the rates of land transaction tax, at what point will you act to make sure that those rates are reduced so that they're more comparable with those across the border?
Welsh: Diolch, Lywydd. A gaf fi ddweud fy mod wedi gweld fy nghyn gyd-aelod o'r Pwyllgor Cyllid, Peter Black, i fyny yn yr oriel? Cefais fy atgoffa o etholiad diwethaf y Cynulliad, pan oeddem yn edrych ymlaen at ddatganoli treth fel rhywbeth anochel a phell, er ei fod yn agosáu. Rydym bellach ar ochr arall y datganoli hwnnw. Wrth ateb Mark Reckless yn gynharach, mewn perthynas â'r dreth trafodiadau tir, ac rwyf am eich holi ynglŷn â hynny hefyd, fe ddywedoch chi ein bod ar hyn o bryd mewn cyfnod o gasglu tystiolaeth ynghylch cyflwyno'r trethi, ac effaith y trethi hynny, yn hytrach na dim ond dyfalu. Os yw'n ymddangos ar unrhyw adeg, fel y dywedoch chi wrth ateb Mark Reckless, fod problem gyda chyfraddau'r dreth trafodiadau tir, pryd y byddwch yn cymryd camau gweithredu i sicrhau bod y cyfraddau hynny yn cael eu gostwng er mwyn iddynt fod yn debycach i'r rhai dros y ffin?
English: Well, Llywydd, as I said, we are in the process of evidence collection now. We will look to see how the non-residential property market develops during this year. We will look to see whether there is any evidence that the very small increase in tax turns out to be a decisive factor in very big multimillion pound decisions that companies make. My hypothesis - and it was the one supported in the Bangor report - that a company that is going to be spending many millions of pounds deciding where to locate itself will be interested in things like the price of land, the price of property, both of which are cheaper in Wales than in competitor cities along the border; they will be looking at the supply of skills, and we have a highly skilled population; they will be looking for long-term stability, which we provide here in Wales; and I don't believe that a small amount in a one-off cost on the purchase of the property will be decisive in those people deciding whether to come here or not, but that's my account. There are other accounts. Now, we will have the evidence, and I will take that into account in the decision-making process that we will have every year here as we set tax rates for the future.
Welsh: Wel, Lywydd, fel y dywedais, rydym yn y broses o gasglu tystiolaeth ar hyn o bryd. Byddwn yn edrych ar sut y mae'r farchnad eiddo amhreswyl yn datblygu dros y flwyddyn. Byddwn yn edrych i weld a oes unrhyw dystiolaeth fod y cynnydd bach iawn yn y dreth yn ffactor tyngedfennol mewn penderfyniadau enfawr gwerth miliynau o bunnoedd a wneir gan gwmnïau. Fy namcaniaeth i - sef yr un a gefnogwyd yn adroddiad Bangor - yw y bydd gan gwmni a fydd yn gwario miliynau lawer o bunnoedd wrth benderfynu ble i leoli ddiddordeb mewn pethau fel pris tir, pris eiddo, sydd ill dau yn rhatach yng Nghymru nag mewn dinasoedd sy'n cystadlu ar hyd y ffin; byddant yn edrych ar gyflenwad sgiliau, ac mae gennym boblogaeth fedrus iawn; byddant yn chwilio am sefydlogrwydd hirdymor, ac rydym yn cynnig hynny yma yng Nghymru; ac ni chredaf y bydd swm bach mewn cost untro wrth brynu'r eiddo yn ffactor tyngedfennol ym mhenderfyniadau'r bobl hyn i ddod yma ai peidio, ond fy marn i yw hynny. Mae safbwyntiau eraill i'w cael. Nawr, bydd gennym dystiolaeth, a byddaf yn ystyried hynny yn y broses o wneud penderfyniadau a fydd gennym yma bob blwyddyn wrth inni osod cyfraddau treth ar gyfer y dyfodol.
English: Cabinet Secretary, you are an open-minded person, and it's interesting that your tone today is different to before the devolution of tax. You did say previously - you asked a rhetorical question and you answered it previously: 'Do I think that the marginal additional sum in LTT will be the determining factor in business deals? No, I don't.' I gather from your answer today that whilst you still would say that is your personal opinion, you don't shut the door on the fact that it might actually be causing problems for some businesses. Before you come back, if I can just pick out some projects, such as Central Square in Cardiff, for instance, where the marginal 1 per cent rise in rates would mean investors paying around 20 per cent more on their property than with stamp duty, and at least 32 per cent more than land and buildings transactions tax. So, I asked you previously at what point you would act on that evidence. Are you willing to accept that already at this point there are cases, such as in projects such as that, where this not only could make a difference but will make a difference? It might be marginal, but in economic terms it's marginal differences that often make the difference in profit or loss.
Welsh: Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae gennych feddwl agored, ac mae'n ddiddorol fod eich tôn heddiw yn wahanol i'r hyn ydoedd cyn datganoli treth. Fe ddywedoch chi o'r blaen - fe ofynnoch chi gwestiwn rhethregol a'i ateb: 'A wyf o'r farn mai'r swm bychan ychwanegol yn y dreth trafodiadau tir fydd y prif ffactor mewn cytundebau busnes? Nac ydw.' Er y byddech yn dal i ddweud mai dyna yw eich barn bersonol, o'ch ateb heddiw rwy'n casglu nad ydych yn cau'r drws ar y ffaith y gallai fod yn achosi problemau i rai busnesau. Cyn ichi ateb, hoffwn grybwyll rhai prosiectau, megis y Sgwâr Canolog yng Nghaerdydd, er enghraifft, lle byddai'r cynnydd ymylol o 1 y cant yn y cyfraddau'n golygu bod buddsoddwyr yn talu oddeutu 20 y cant yn fwy ar eu heiddo nag y byddent gyda'r dreth stamp, ac o leiaf 32 y cant yn fwy na'r dreth trafodiadau tir ac adeiladau. Felly, gofynnais ichi yn flaenorol pryd y byddech yn gweithredu ar y dystiolaeth honno. A ydych yn barod i dderbyn bod yna achosion eisoes ar hyn o bryd, mewn prosiectau o'r fath, lle nid yn unig y gallai hyn wneud gwahaniaeth, ond y bydd yn gwneud gwahaniaeth? Efallai ei fod yn ymylol, ond mewn termau economaidd, mae gwahaniaethau ymylol yn aml yn gwneud gwahaniaeth o ran elw neu golled.
English: I don't think the Member can expect to cite those instances and say that they are actual evidence. We are a couple of weeks into the new tax regime, and I don't think he or anybody else could produce a single decision where a company could say, 'We've decided not to come to Wales because of the 6 per cent rate.' He's able to produce those large percentage figures because he's got low numbers, and the low numbers show that the actual impact from that 1 per cent is a good deal more modest than he's suggesting. I stand by the thinking that lay behind the decision I made and brought to the floor of this Assembly, that the rate will not deter people from coming here to Wales and that the impact of lowering taxes for the 90 per cent of commercial property transactions in Wales, so they're the lowest in the United Kingdom, will have a much larger stimulative effect on business in Wales than the aspect that he complains of. However, any sensible person must be open to the actual evidence and there are different views of how this may affect the market, and now over the coming months we will find out whether there is such an impact, and if there is and there is real evidence, then I just repeat what I've said, Llywydd, then of course anybody would take that into account as these decisions come up for review.
Welsh: Ni chredaf y gall yr Aelod ddisgwyl cyfeirio at yr achosion hynny a dweud eu bod yn dystiolaeth go iawn. Rydym gwpl o wythnosau i mewn i gyfundrefn dreth newydd, ac ni chredaf y gall ef nac unrhyw un arall nodi un penderfyniad lle y gallai cwmni ddweud, 'Rydym wedi penderfynu peidio â dod i Gymru oherwydd y gyfradd o 6 y cant.' Mae'n gallu cynhyrchu'r canrannau uchel hynny am fod ganddo rifau isel, a dengys y rhifau isel fod effaith wirioneddol yr 1 y cant hwnnw'n fwy cymedrol o lawer nag y mae'n ei awgrymu. Rwy'n glynu wrth y farn a oedd yn sail i'r penderfyniad a wneuthum ac a gyflwynais ar lawr y Cynulliad hwn, na fydd y gyfradd yn atal pobl rhag dod yma i Gymru, ac y bydd gostwng trethi i'r 90 y cant o drafodiadau eiddo masnachol yng Nghymru, gan sicrhau mai hwy yw'r isaf yn y Deyrnas Unedig, yn cael effaith ysgogol fwy o lawer ar fusnesau yng Nghymru na'r agwedd y mae'n cwyno amdani. Fodd bynnag, mae'n rhaid i unrhyw unigolyn synhwyrol fod yn agored i'r dystiolaeth a cheir safbwyntiau gwahanol o ran sut y gall hyn effeithio ar y farchnad, a bellach, dros y misoedd nesaf, byddwn yn darganfod a oes effaith o'r fath, ac os cadarnheir hynny ac y ceir tystiolaeth go iawn, yna rwy'n ailadrodd yr hyn rwyf wedi'i ddweud, Lywydd, a byddai unrhyw un yn ystyried hynny wrth i'r penderfyniadau hyn gael eu hadolygu.
English: Well, I have answered that question, but I'll repeat again: I met a group of businesses who made much the case that you have put very plainly this afternoon, and I've asked my officials to meet them subsequently so that we remain in touch with them and are well placed to gather the evidence that I've talked about this afternoon. His point about the multiplier is a curious one because in England, where his party is in charge, there is of course a higher rate multiplier for exactly the sort of businesses that you've been talking about this afternoon. The largest businesses in England pay a higher rate of multiplier and we don't have that higher rate of multiplier here in Wales. And that is because in England, of course, they have to collect money from those higher rated businesses because those higher rated businesses pay for the rate relief schemes that smaller businesses enjoy in England, whereas, in Wales, we fully fund all our business rate relief schemes directly from the Welsh Government.
Welsh: Wel, rwyf wedi ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw, ond fe ailadroddaf unwaith eto: cyfarfûm â grŵp o fusnesau a oedd yn dadlau'r achos a wnaed yn blwmp ac yn blaen gennych chi y prynhawn yma, ac rwyf wedi gofyn i fy swyddogion gyfarfod â hwy wedi hynny fel y gallwn barhau mewn cysylltiad â hwy ac mewn sefyllfa dda i gasglu'r dystiolaeth y soniais amdani y prynhawn yma. Mae ei bwynt ynglŷn a'r lluosydd yn un rhyfedd oherwydd yn Lloegr, lle mae ei blaid ef mewn grym, mae ganddynt luosydd ardrethi uwch, wrth gwrs, ar gyfer yr union fath o fusnesau y sonioch amdanynt y prynhawn yma. Mae'r busnesau mwyaf yn Lloegr yn talu cyfradd lluosydd uwch ac nid oes gennym y gyfradd lluosydd uwch honno yma yng Nghymru. Ac mae hynny oherwydd yn Lloegr, wrth gwrs, mae'n rhaid iddynt gasglu arian gan y busnesau ar y gyfradd uwch am fod y busnesau hynny ar y gyfradd uwch yn talu am y cynlluniau rhyddhad ardrethi y mae'r busnesau llai yn eu mwynhau yn Lloegr, tra bo'n cynlluniau rhyddhad ardrethi busnes yng Nghymru yn cael eu hariannu'n uniongyrchol gan Lywodraeth Cymru.