techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: I don't know, is the plain answer - I don't know. I think, for political reasons, there was a change of Minister and a change of policy and a decision not to move forward with implementing a number of reports that appeared at the same time as the report on the Cwricwlwm Cymreig and the history of Wales. Other reports were accepted by the Minister at the time and the intention was to move forward and develop the 2008 curriculum - that was the last review of the current national curriculum, as it were - and to move, to build on and develop that in line with the reports that we had. But there was a change of Minister and the new Minister decided to ask Professor Donaldson - a scholar and a gentleman with experience of devising the Scottish curriculum too - to draw up another report on restructuring the curriculum completely. That was a broader restructuring because he was going to look at everything and not just at aspects of the current curriculum, but at assessment and the whole structure of the education system and so on. So, I don't know what the exact reasons were, but there was certainly a change in policy and attitude from one Minister to another.
Welsh: Nid wyf i'n gwybod, yw'r ateb plaen - nid wyf i'n gwybod. Rwy'n meddwl, am resymau gwleidyddol, roedd newid Gweinidog a newid polisi a phenderfynu peidio â symud ymlaen gyda gweithredu nifer o adroddiadau a wnaethpwyd ar yr un pryd â'r adroddiad ar y Cwricwlwm Cymreig a hanes Cymru. Roedd adroddiadau eraill wedi cael eu derbyn gan y Gweinidog ar y pryd, a'r bwriad oedd symud ymlaen i ddatblygu cwricwlwm 2008 - adolygiad diwethaf y cwricwlwm cenedlaethol presennol, fel petai - ac i adeiladu ar hwnnw a'i ddatblygu yn unol â'r adroddiadau yr oeddem ni wedi'u cael. Ond, fe newidiodd y Gweinidog addysg ac fe benderfynodd y Gweinidog newydd i ofyn i'r Athro Donaldson - ysgolhaig a dyn â phrofiad o lunio cwricwlwm yr Alban hefyd - i lunio adroddiad arall ar gyfer ailstrwythuro'r cwricwlwm yn gyfan gwbl. Roedd hynny'n ehangach o strwythur - o ailstrwythuro - oherwydd roedd e'n mynd i edrych ar bopeth ac nid jest ar agweddau o'r cwricwlwm presennol, ond ar y busnes o asesu a strwythuro'r gyfundrefn addysg ac yn y blaen. Felly, nid wyf i'n gwybod beth oedd y rhesymau'n union, ond yn sicr roedd yna newid agwedd a pholisi rhwng un Gweinidog a'r llall.
English: Was the work you did forgotten?
Welsh: Anghofiwyd am y gwaith a wnaethoch chi?
English: It feels like that, yes. But that is life and that is what Government is. It was made perfectly clear to me at the time that the Government would decide to implement, accept or reject the recommendations, or accept or reject the report, according to their own decision. They own that decision, and that's right. They've commissioned the work, they are to accept it or not. What I don't understand is why the report that we drew up as a taskforce was accepted in whole, but only pieces of it have been implemented. In my opinion, there are key sections of that report that have been forgotten. I read the Donaldson report. I hope you've seen my comments on the Donaldson report and the lack of opportunities that are there to define the Welsh perspective on issues.
Welsh: Wel, mae'n teimlo fel yna, ydy. Ond, dyna beth yw bywyd a dyna beth yw Llywodraeth. Fe wnaethpwyd yn hollol glir i mi ar y pryd y byddai'r Llywodraeth yn penderfynu gweithredu neu dderbyn neu wrthod yr argymhellion, neu dderbyn neu wrthod yr adroddiad, yn ôl eu penderfyniad nhw. Nhw piau'r penderfyniad, ac mae hynny'n iawn. Maen nhw wedi comisiynu'r gwaith, maen nhw yn ei dderbyn neu beidio. Beth nad ydw i'n deall yw pam cafodd yr adroddiad yr oeddem ni wedi ei lunio fel tasglu ei dderbyn yn gyfan gwbl, ond dim ond darnau ohono fe sydd wedi cael eu gweithredu. I fi, mae darnau allweddol ohono fe wedi cael eu hanghofio. Rwy'n darllen adroddiad Donaldson. Rydych chi wedi gweld, gobeithio, fy sylwadau i ar adroddiad Donaldson, a'r diffyg cyfleoedd mae e'n cymryd i enghreifftio'r persbectif Cymreig ar bethau. FootnoteLink
English: Do you think evidence is there in the Donaldson report that your work is coming through there somewhere?
Welsh: A ydych chi'n gweld tystiolaeth yn adroddiad Donaldson o'ch gwaith chi yn dod drwodd yna yn rhywle?
English: No, I don't. He talks about the Welsh dimension, but when I read what he says about the expressive arts, he doesn't talk about the eisteddfod at all. I think that is a terrible thing in Wales, where it is an integral part of our culture and our identity.
Welsh: Nac ydw. Mae e'n sôn am y dimensiwn Cymreig, ond pan rwy'n darllen yr hyn mae'n ei ddweud abothdu'r celfyddydau mynegiadol, nid yw'n sôn am eisteddfod o gwbl. Roeddwn i'n meddwl bod hynny'n beth ofnadwy yng Nghymru, lle mae'n rhan annatod o'n diwylliant ni a'n hunaniaeth ni.
English: So even in developing a new curriculum and a new context for the curriculum, you are concerned that the Welsh context isn't central enough, and that's been reflected not only in education about Welsh history, but generally about where Wales fits into the picture.
Welsh: Felly hyd yn oed wrth ddatblygu cwricwlwm newydd a rhoi cyd-destun newydd i'n cwricwlwm ni, rydych chi'n ofni nad yw'r cyd-destun Cymreig yn ddigon canolog o hyd, a bod hynny'n cael ei adlewyrchu nid yn unig yn yr addysg ynglŷn â hanes Cymru, ond yn gyffredinol ynglŷn â lle mae Cymru yn ffitio i mewn i'r darlun.
English: The delay, the attitude, the ignorance, I think, in the Donaldson report - certainly, he's not taking the opportunities he has to provide guidance, and clear guidance, on the Welsh perspective within, say, local studies. He talks about geography - fine. A local river - great. And he talks about Smetana's music. He doesn't mention ' Nant y Mynydd groyw loyw yn ymdroelli tua'r pant '. He doesn't mention obvious Welsh elements. He misses an opportunity, and I think he undermines what we've been trying to do to create a curriculum that's suitable for Wales as a country over the last 30 years.
Welsh: Mae'r oedi, mae'r agwedd, mae'r anwybodaeth, rwy'n credu, yn adroddiad Donaldson - yn sicr, nid yw'n cymryd y cyfleoedd sydd gyda fe i roi cyfarwyddyd ac arweiniad clir ar y persbectif Cymreig o fewn, dywedwn ni, astudiaethau lleol. Mae e'n sôn am wneud y ddaearyddiaeth - ffein. Afon leol - grêt. Mae e'n sôn am gerddoriaeth Smetana. Nid yw'n sôn am 'Nant y mynydd groyw loyw yn ymdroelli tua'r pant'. Nid yw'n sôn am bethau amlwg Cymreig. Mae e'n colli'r cyfle, ac felly rwy'n meddwl ei fod e'n tanseilio'r hyn rydym ni wedi bod yn trio ei wneud i greu cwricwlwm addas i Gymru fel gwlad dros y 30 mlynedd diwethaf yma.
English: Only - . When - .
Welsh: Dim ond - . Pan - .
English: Well done for trying. Thank you very much.
Welsh: Da iawn am drio. Diolch yn fawr.
English: When I left school, in my opinion, I couldn't acknowledge the history of Wales. It was impossible, because there was no teaching of it, really. There was no teaching of history.
Welsh: Pan gadawais i'r ysgol, yn fy marn i, nid oeddwn i'n gallu adnabod hanes Cymru. Roedd yn amhosibl, achos nad oedd yna ddim addysg, mewn gwirionedd, yn hanes.
English: I'm sorry - .
Welsh: Mae'n flin gyda fi - .
English: I hadn't thought of that, but you're perfectly right. It's always relevant. That's the starting point - it should be. I hadn't thought of that, so thank you very much for drawing my attention to it.
Welsh: Nid oeddwn i wedi meddwl am hynny, ond rydych chi'n berffaith iawn. Mae wastad yn berthnasol. Dyna'r man cychwyn - dylai fod. Nid oeddwn i wedi meddwl am hynny, felly diolch yn fawr i chi am dynnu fy sylw i at hynny.
English: Well, that's where we get into the question of evidence, and teaching the skills of history. History is used as propaganda quite often, and what's important is that you teach history skills of collecting, analysing and looking at evidence, so that you don't accept any statement on Twitter or on Facebook and think, 'Well, they say that - it's bound to be true'. You think, 'How can you prove that? Where is the evidence? Who says that? Why do they say it?' - looking for bias. That's what I feel. If history is taught correctly, you give skills to pupils to develop as citizens who are wise and who can evaluate and analyse.
Welsh: Wel, dyna ble rydym ni'n dod i mewn i'r cwestiwn o dystiolaeth a dysgu sgiliau hanes. Mae hanes yn cael ei ddefnyddio fel propaganda yn aml iawn, a beth sy'n bwysig yw eich bod chi'n dysgu sgiliau hanesyddol o gasglu, gwerthuso a defnyddio tystiolaeth, fel nad ydych yn derbyn unrhyw osodiad ar drydar neu ar weplyfr a meddwl, 'Wel, maen nhw'n dweud hynny, maen bownd o fod yn wir'. Rydych ch'n meddwl, 'Sut mae profi hynny? Ble mae'r dystiolaeth? Pwy sy'n dweud hynny? Pam maen nhw'n ei ddweud e?' - a chwilio am duedd. Dyna beth rydw i'n ei deimlo. Os ydych chi'n dysgu hanes yn iawn, rydych chi'n rhoi'r sgiliau i ddisgyblion i ddatblygu yn ddinasyddion call sy'n gallu pwyso a mesur.
English: When I was in the sixth form, learning about the Nazis wasn't exactly propaganda. Just because we were learning about it, it didn't make us feel, 'Oh, we want to follow these' - it just made us question why they did those things. How can we stop that happening again in the future? And seeing how the structure of the situation had led to things like that. So, if you have seen every element of the history of Wales under the magnifying glass, it's important to look at everything under that magnifying glass, because it lets you then question everything and look at it in a different way that isn't putting you in any narrow way of thinking.
Welsh: Pan oeddwn i yn y chweched dosbarth, nid oedd dysgu am y Natsïaid yn bropaganda; roedd o'n gwneud i ni - . Jest achos ein bod ni'n dysgu amdano fo, nid oedd o'n gwneud i ni deimlo, 'O, rydym ni eisiau dilyn y rhain' - roedd o jest yn gwneud i ni gwestiynu pam roedden nhw wedi gwneud y pethau yma. Sut fedrwn ni stopio hyn yn y dyfodol? A jest gweld sut roedd strwythur y sefyllfa wedi arwain at bethau fel hynny. Wedyn, os ydych chi'n cael pob agwedd ar hanes Cymru o dan y chwyddwydr, mae'n bwysig edrych ar bob peth o dan y chwyddwydr yna. Mae'n gadael i chi wedyn gwestiynu pob peth ac edrych arno fo mewn ffordd wahanol sydd ddim yn eich rhoi chi mewn i ffordd gul o edrych ar rywbeth.
English: It would be easy to say, 'Change the law'. Maybe Elfed wants to say that. But I know that there is a way of avoiding the legislation. I wrote the statutory work and the orders for years, and I would go into schools and I would see people misunderstanding it and misinterpreting it and not knowing anything about it. And so, I feel that legislation, perhaps, is not the issue, but celebrating rather than legislating - saying that we have a fantastic history in Wales, our own history and we have a language and culture that is a bonus to us in Wales. We have something that is different, that deserves to be celebrated. We have in Wales an annual competition - the Welsh schools' heritage initiative. It has been held for 20 years. It was established by a refugee from Poland, a woman who then became Dame Trotman-Dickenson. She has established this idea of a competition. It's held every year, I'm on the committee and it provides awards for good work in local history and the history of Wales. And I think you, as an Assembly, could do much more about this. As a committee, we are part of the European framework and beyond - Israel is part of the framework as well - that hosts competitions on a national level in history and citizenship at times. It rewards good work and celebrates good work, and puts it at the forefront in the public eye as an example of what can be done, what can inspire schools to want to learn more about the history that is based in their own land and gives them the opportunity to evaluate and analyse evidence.
Welsh: Byddai fe'n rhwydd i dweud, 'Newidiwch y ddeddf'. Efallai bod Elfed eisiau dweud hynny. Rydw i'n gwybod bod yna fodd i osgoi'r ddeddf. Roeddwn i'n ysgrifennu'r gorchymyn, roeddwn i'n ysgrifennu'r gwaith statudol am flynyddoedd, ac roeddwn i'n mynd i mewn i ysgolion ac roeddwn i'n gweld pobl yn ei gamddeall e, yn ei gamddehongli e, ddim yn gwybod amdano fe. Ac wedyn, rydw i'n teimlo nad, efallai, deddfu yw'r peth, ond dathlu yn hytrach na deddfu - dweud bod gyda ni hanes ffantastig yng Nghymru, ein hanes ni ein hunain. Mae gyda ni iaith a diwylliant sy'n fonws i ni yng Nghymru. Mae gyda ni rywbeth sy'n wahanol, sy'n haeddu cael ei ddathlu. Mae gyda ni yng Nghymru gystadleuaeth flynyddol, sef menter ysgolion y dreftadaeth Gymreig. Mae'n cael ei chynnal ers 20 mlynedd. Sefydlwyd y gystadleuaeth gan ffoadures o Wlad Pwyl, menyw a ddatblygodd wedyn yn Fonesig Trotman-Dickenson. Mae hi wedi sefydlu'r syniad yma o gystadleuaeth. Mae'n cael ei chynnal bob blwyddyn, rydw i ar y pwyllgor ac mae'n gwobrwyo gwaith da mewn hanes lleol a hanes Cymru yn flynyddol. Rydw i'n teimlo y gallech chi, fel Cynulliad, wneud llawer mwy o hyn. Fel pwyllgor, rydym ni'n rhan o fframwaith Ewropeaidd a thu hwnt - mae Israel yn rhan o'r fframwaith hefyd - sy'n cynnal cystadlaethau cenedlaethol mewn hanes a dinasyddiaeth weithiau. Ac mae'n gwobrwyo gwaith da ac yn dathlu gwaith da, a'i roi o flaen y cyhoedd fel esiampl o'r hyn y gellir ei wneud fel y gellir ysbrydoli ysgolion i fod eisiau dysgu mwy o hanes sydd wedi'i wreiddio yn eu tir nhw eu hunain ac yn rhoi cyfle iddyn nhw bwyso a mesur tystiolaeth.
English: There are so many things that we could teach about the history of Wales - it's so rich. For example, the Hywel Dda laws. I remember hearing about that, about these laws, when I was about nine years old and it inspired me to think, 'What else is interesting about Wales? What else are we missing out on in Welsh history?' From the south Wales Valleys to Anglesey, it belongs to each area. I would have loved to learn more about the coal mines and the events of the 1980s with the closures of the coal mines. It's part of our history and it's all intertwined with this country. What happens in the south affects the north and it's all one country. There are so many subjects that we could learn, we just need to find the right way to intertwine them, and to have the scope of Wales in the world, and Wales within the UK and Europe. We could show our younger generations that Wales is a country that has played a very large part in the history of the world, and that the people who have come to our country to live, that they've enriched our history also. I have hope that this is going to start something really good about teaching Welsh history.
Welsh: Mae yna gymaint o bethau y buaswn ni'n gallu eu dysgu ar hanes Cymru - mae o mor gyfoethog. Un enghraifft ydy deddfau Hywel Dda. Rydw i'n cofio clywed am hynny, am y deddfau yma, pan oeddwn i'n rhyw naw oed, ac mi wnaeth o fy sbarduno i feddwl, 'Beth arall sy'n ddiddorol yng Nghymru? Beth arall ydym ni'n colli allan arno yn ein hanes ni?' O Gymoedd y de, yr holl ffordd i Ynys Môn yn fanna, mae yna rywbeth sy'n perthyn i bob ardal. Buaswn i wedi bod wrth fy modd yn dysgu mwy am y pyllau glo a'r digwyddiadau yn yr 1980au gyda chau'r pyllau glo. Er fy mod i'n byw yn Nhrawsfynydd, mae o'n dal yn rhan o'n hanes ni - fy hanes i hefyd, achos rydym ni i gyd yn cael ein plethu i mewn i'r wlad yma ac wedyn mae beth sy'n digwydd yn y de yn effeithio ar y gogledd ac rydym ni i gyd yn un wlad yn y diwedd. Mae yna gymaint o bynciau y buasem ni'n gallu eu dysgu, jest mae eisiau ffeindio'r ffordd iawn i blethu nhw i gyd efo'i gilydd, ac hefyd, wrth gwrs, i gael y sgôp o Gymru yn y byd, a Chymru o fewn Prydain ac Ewrop. Buaswn ni'n gallu dangos i'n cenhedloedd ifanc bod Cymru yn wlad sydd wedi chwarae rhan fawr yn hanes y byd, a bod y bobl sydd wedi dod i'n gwlad ni i fyw, eu bod nhw wedi cyfoethogi'n hanes ni hefyd. Mae gennyf fi obaith bod hwn yn mynd i ddechrau rhywbeth andros o dda efo dysgu hanes Cymru.
English: I agree 100 per cent with you. There is a need to have that long range of history, to see the developments and to see your part in history. I think we need to find out why that isn't - . We need to find out first of all if that's not happening. You need to show clearly that that's not happening. The research that we've conducted as a taskforce suggests that. Research conducted 20 years ago by Dr Sian Rhiannon Williams also suggests that only a third of schools teach Welsh history correctly, but there is no evidence. If it's not being done, why isn't it being done? What are the difficulties? I think the emphasis on results and that competitive element between schools has an impact on that. I'm quite sure that the history of Wales, as a whole, isn't integrated into history, and isn't being done in Welsh-medium schools either, and some pupils in those schools have told me, the same as Elfed, that it was by studying Welsh at GCSE and A-level that they heard of things such as the early poetry and some of the history. And that puts too much pressure on teachers of Welsh. And there is one aspect of the Donaldson report that concerns me, which is that it's as if he restricts the teaching about Welsh culture to Welsh-language lessons, and that places too much responsibility on those teachers.
Welsh: Rwy'n cytuno 100 y cant gyda chi. Mae eisiau cael yr ystod hir o hanes i weld datblygiadau, i weld eich rhan chi yn hanes. Rwy'n meddwl bod eisiau ffeindio mas pam nad yw hynny - . Mae eisiau ffeindio mas yn gyntaf os nad yw hynny ddim yn cael ei wneud. Mae eisiau i chi ddangos yn glir nad yw e ddim yn cael ei wneud. Mae'r ymchwil rydym ni wedi ei wneud fel tasglu yn awgrymu hynny. Mae ymchwil a wnaethpwyd 20 mlynedd yn ôl gan Dr Sian Rhiannon Williams hefyd yn awgrymu mai dim ond traean o ysgolion sy'n dysgu hanes Cymru yn iawn, ond nid oes tystiolaeth gyda ni. Os nad yw e'n cael ei wneud, pam nad yw e'n cael ei wneud? Beth yw'r anhawster? Rwy'n meddwl bod y pwyslais ar ganlyniadau a'r elfen gystadleuol rhwng ysgolion yn cael effaith ar hynny. Rwy'n gwybod yn weddol sicr nad yw hanes Cymru, fel y cyfryw, ddim wedi'i integreiddio i hanes, ac nad yw'n cael ei wneud mewn ysgolion Cymraeg chwaith, ac mae rhai disgyblion yr ysgolion hynny wedi dweud wrthyf fi, fel Elfed, mai trwy wneud y Gymraeg i lefel A a TGAU yr oedden nhw wedi clywed am bethau fel barddoniaeth gynnar a pheth o'r hanes. Ac mae hynny yn rhoi gormod o lawer o bwysau ar athrawon y Gymraeg. Ac un agwedd yn adroddiad Donaldson sy'n becso fi yw ei fod e fel petai e'n cyfyngu dysgu am ddiwylliant Cymru i wersi iaith Gymraeg, ac mae hynny'n rhoi gormod o gyfrifoldeb.
English: Yes, I think that completely. There is an old saying in the world of museums, namely 'Look for the "me" in museum', and I think you need to look for the 'I' in history. But you have to look at the personal and the relevant, and see the broader history. In terms of Germany, I would take you back to Charlemagne and the division of Charlemagne's empire, but that's for next time, probably.
Welsh: Ydw, rwy'n meddwl hynny yn gyfan gwbl. Mae hen ddywediad ymhlith byd yr amgueddfeydd, sef 'Look for the "me" in museum', ac rwy'n meddwl bod angen edrych am yr 'I' yn history. Beth rydych chi'n ei wneud gyda 'hanes', nid wyf yn gwybod. Ond maen rhaid i chi edrych am y personol a'r perthnasol, a gweld yr hanes eang. O ran yr Almaen, byddwn i'n mynd â chi yn ôl i Charlemagne a rhaniad ymerodraeth Charlemagne, ond y tro nesaf fydd hynny, siŵr o fod.
English: With the history of Wales as well, if we cut some pieces out, we don't get the full picture, and some things don't make sense then. So, it's important that we look at the history of Wales, even from Roman times, or before then, to the Celts even, and see how we've developed to be a country, and then the development of the British Union. And where we are today - we've developed a Parliament. And that's the thing: people don't understand why we have a Parliament in Cardiff. They question - 'Oh, this building just landed here in 1997' - but if they had the history behind this building, behind the language, the history behind everything, their communities - and I'm going to emphasise that time and time again - they'd grow to appreciate and understand the importance of these organisations and these aspects then.
Welsh: Efo hanes Cymru hefyd, os ydym ni'n torri rhai darnau allan, rydym ni'n gweld nad ydym ni'n cael y darlun llawn, ac mae rhai pethau sydd ddim yn gwneud synnwyr wedyn. Felly, mae'n bwysig ein bod ni'n edrych ar hanes Cymru, o hyd yn oed cyfnod y Rhufeiniaid - neu cyn hynny, cyfnod y Celtiaid, dywedwch - ymlaen, ac rydym ni'n gweld sut rydym ni wedi datblygu i fod yn wlad, ac wedyn datblygu'r Undeb Brydeinig. A lle rydym ni heddiw - rydym ni wedi datblygu Senedd. Dyna yw'r peth: nid yw pobl yn dallt pam bod gennym ni Senedd yng Nghaerdydd. Maen nhw'n cwestiynu - 'O, mae'r adeilad yma jest wedi glanio yma yn 1997' - ond os ydyn nhw'n gwybod yr hanes tu ôl i'r adeilad yma, yr hanes tu ôl i'r iaith, yr hanes y tu ôl i bob peth, eu cymunedau nhw - rydw i'n mynd i bwysleisio hynny eto ac eto - mae rhywun yn tyfu i werthfawrogi ac i ddeall pwysigrwydd y sefydliadau a'r agweddau yma wedyn.
English: And I would like to add one thing as well: from studying the history of Wales, it's not all sweet. You see that it's good or bad or mixed. There are people who have had slaves. There is Nathaniel Wells, who came to Piercefield. He was a black boy and he inherited an estate in Gwent. His mother was a slave. We see that we've been fighting on the side of the British Empire. We've been fighting against the British Empire. We have heroes and heroines. And we have those who are villains. And learning about their history and their complexities helps us to learn more about ourselves and where we've reached. But I think it's important not just to look at the pretty aspect of history.
Welsh: A liciwn i ychwanegu un peth hefyd: o astudio hanes Cymru, nid yw'n fêl i gyd. Rŷch chi'n gweld bod e'n wych neu'n wael neu'n gymysg oll i gyd. Mae yna bobl sydd wedi bod yn berchen ar gaethweision. Mae yna fachgen, Nathaniel Wells, ddaeth i Piercefield. Roedd yn fachgen du ac fe etifeddodd e ystâd yng Ngwent. Roedd ei fam e'n gaethferch. Rŷm ni'n gweld ein bod ni wedi bod yn ymladd ar ochr yr Ymerodraeth Brydeinig. Rydym ni wedi bod yn ymladd yn erbyn yr Ymerodraeth Brydeinig. Mae gyda ni arwyr. Mae gyda ni arwresau, ac mae gyda ni ddihirod. Ac mae dysgu am eu hanes nhw, yn eu cymhlethdod a'u bywiogrwydd, yn ein helpu ni i ddysgu mwy am ein hunain a fel yr ŷm ni wedi cyrraedd ble yr ŷm ni. Ond rwy'n meddwl bod - mae'n bwysig iawn nid i jest edrych ar yr ochr bert.