English: They weren't heckling me. [ Laughter.] I think some of your points that I heard were fair points; I don't disagree, Huw, at all. But I think that my response would be - . Well, I quote back the Minister for economy and transport himself, who said: 'over the 60-year appraisal period, there is more than £2 of benefit for each pound spent on the scheme, without touching on the wider economic benefits likely to flow from the scheme, such as a stronger perception of Wales as a place to invest, which cannot be captured.' So, I'd counter-argue what you say with that, which is the view of the Minister. In fairness, I think he probably agrees with that view still today. Perhaps he can inform us at the conclusion. On top of that, the UK Government has provided the Welsh Government with the levers that are needed to proceed with the project, as well as ensuring that the capital budget has grown by over 45 per cent over the current spending review period. The UK Government has also committed to continue working with the Welsh Government on how to strengthen the Welsh economy and provide greater connectivity as well. [ Interruption. ] I can hear the First Minister talking as well, but I would say to the First Minister today, who seems to be engaged in this debate today, I call on him to rethink his plans and deliver the M4 relief road as soon as possible, although I don't think that he's going to change his position as a result of today's debate, unfortunately. Other major road schemes in Wales have failed to receive the improvements that they require to ensure that they are better able to meet the demands of Welsh road users: the A55 in north Wales is an example that has long suffered from underinvestment; there's the A40, which has also experienced a lack of effective upgrades over the last 20 years; and we're also calling for proposals to be developed for major upgrades to the A55 trunk road; and, of course, I have to mention - I can hear Paul Davies talking to my left - the A40 road to Fishguard, which Paul Davies so often mentions. Of course, it would be remiss of me not to mention the Pant-Llanymynech bypass in my own constituency, as well as focusing attention on other north and south links to Wales. When it comes to the Pant-Llanymynech bypass, I can see that the Welsh Government has engaged positively with the UK Government on that in the past, so I hope for some positive contribution in that regard. But, we need to have - . Huw Irranca has commented on a number of occasions in this debate today; I don't disagree with what he has to say. I think it's both having effective road schemes as well as having effective public transport and active travel. They are combined together. They don't compete against each other. We do need to have a road network that is suitable for making sure that Wales's economic prosperity grows. To remain a competitive Wales, we need to have an efficient road network structure in place. I look forward to Members' contributions to this debate, and commend our motion to this Parliament.
Welsh: Nid oeddent yn fy heclo. [ Chwerthin.] Credaf fod rhai o'ch pwyntiau a glywais yn bwyntiau teg; nid wyf yn anghytuno, Huw, dim o gwbl. Ond credaf mai fy ymateb fyddai - . Wel, dyfynnaf Weinidog yr economi a thrafnidiaeth ei hun, a ddywedodd: 'dros y cyfnod arfarnu o 60 mlynedd, fod mwy na £2 o fudd am bob punt a werir ar y cynllun, heb gyffwrdd ar y manteision economaidd ehangach sy'n debygol o ddeillio o'r cynllun, megis canfyddiad cryfach o Gymru fel lle i fuddsoddi, rhywbeth na ellir ei fesur.' Felly, buaswn yn dadlau yn erbyn yr hyn a ddywedwch drwy ddweud hynny, sef barn y Gweinidog. A bod yn deg, credaf ei fod, yn ôl pob tebyg, yn dal i gytuno â'r farn honno heddiw. Efallai y gall roi gwybod inni ar y diwedd. Yn ychwanegol at hynny, mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi rhoi'r dulliau sydd eu hangen ar Lywodraeth Cymru i fwrw ymlaen â'r prosiect, yn ogystal â sicrhau bod y gyllideb gyfalaf wedi cynyddu dros 45 y cant yn ystod cyfnod yr adolygiad presennol o wariant. Mae Llywodraeth y DU hefyd wedi ymrwymo i barhau i weithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru ar sut i gryfhau economi Cymru yn ogystal â darparu mwy o gysylltedd. [ Torri ar draws. ] Gallaf glywed y Prif Weinidog yn siarad hefyd, ond buaswn yn dweud wrth y Prif Weinidog heddiw, sydd fel pe bai'n cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon heddiw, galwaf arno i ailfeddwl ei gynlluniau a darparu ffordd liniaru'r M4 cyn gynted â phosibl, er na chredaf y bydd yn newid ei safbwynt o ganlyniad i'r ddadl heddiw, yn anffodus. Mae cynlluniau ffyrdd mawr eraill yng Nghymru wedi methu cael y gwelliannau sydd eu hangen arnynt i sicrhau eu bod yn gallu bodloni gofynion defnyddwyr ffyrdd Cymru yn well: mae'r A55 yng ngogledd Cymru yn enghraifft sydd wedi dioddef yn hir yn sgil tanfuddsoddi ers amser maith; yr A40, sydd hefyd wedi dioddef yn sgil diffyg gwaith uwchraddio effeithiol dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf; ac rydym hefyd yn galw am ddatblygu cynigion ar gyfer gwaith uwchraddio sylweddol ar gefnffordd yr A55; ac wrth gwrs, mae'n rhaid i mi grybwyll - clywaf Paul Davies yn siarad ar y chwith i mi - ffordd yr A40 i Abergwaun, y mae Paul Davies yn sôn amdani mor aml. Wrth gwrs, buaswn ar fai pe na bawn yn sôn am ffordd osgoi Pant-Llanymynech yn fy etholaeth i, yn ogystal â chanolbwyntio ar gysylltiadau gogledd a de eraill â Chymru. O ran ffordd osgoi Pant-Llanymynech, gallaf weld bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymgysylltu'n gadarnhaol â Llywodraeth y DU ar hynny yn y gorffennol, felly rwy'n gobeithio am gyfraniad cadarnhaol yn hynny o beth. Ond mae angen i ni gael - . Mae Huw Irranca wedi gwneud sylwadau ar sawl achlysur yn y ddadl hon heddiw; nid wyf yn anghytuno â'r hyn sydd ganddo i'w ddweud. Credaf fod hyn yn ymwneud â chael cynlluniau ffyrdd effeithiol yn ogystal â thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus effeithiol a theithio llesol. Maent wedi'u cyfuno. Nid ydynt yn cystadlu yn erbyn ei gilydd. Mae angen inni gael rhwydwaith ffyrdd sy'n addas er mwyn sicrhau bod ffyniant economaidd Cymru'n tyfu. Er mwyn parhau i fod yn Gymru gystadleuol, mae angen i ni sefydlu strwythur rhwydwaith ffyrdd effeithlon. Edrychaf ymlaen at gyfraniadau'r Aelodau i'r ddadl hon, a chymeradwyaf ein cynnig i'r Senedd.