English: [Inaudible.] - that he does in relation to the potential asymmetry of impact of increasing Welsh rates of income tax, this is a point already made by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, but any Welsh Government making such decisions at some point in the future will be wanting to weigh up the impact in the round. It will be looking to look at what impact changing Welsh rates of income tax in the difficult circumstances that Mike Hedges very clearly outlined earlier would have, not just on individual taxpayers and on the Welsh Government's revenues, but also on the Welsh economy as well. So, it will be a good deal more complex a decision than one construed just on those narrow terms that Mark Reckless set out. In front of the Finance Committee, Dirprwy Lywydd, Mr Reckless asked me a series of very pertinent technical questions about the fiscal framework, which I was very pleased to try and answer, and then he veered away into the sort of conspiracy theory of politics that he's offered us this afternoon. There was no deal done. The basis of the discussions with the Chief Secretary was that set out in my statement, when I said that we set off, in negotiating the framework, explicitly on the basis that we were looking for arrangements that would be required were the Wales Bill to be passed. It wasn't because the Wales Bill was bound to be passed, but we were trying to make sure that, by the time any votes on the Wales Bill, particularly here, came to be taken, I would be able to say to Members either, 'We've got a fiscal framework that allows you to weigh up the Wales Bill on its own merits', or 'The fiscal framework has become a barrier to the Welsh Government being able to recommend the Wales Bill to you'. The decision that my group took was taken last night in a very thorough, very detailed and very forensic discussion of the Wales Bill, in which the fiscal framework was, as I've said today - and the First Minister has said previously - now a neutral element. It was no longer a barrier to deciding to support the Wales Bill. It was not so good that it was worth voting for a Wales Bill that could not be supported on its own merits. And the whole negotiation has been carried out on those very straightforward and non-conspiratorial terms.
Welsh: [Anghlywadwy.] - y mae'n ei wneud ynghylch yr anghymesuredd posibl i effaith cynyddu cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru, mae hwn yn bwynt a wnaed eisoes gan y Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid, ond bydd unrhyw Lywodraeth Cymru sy'n gwneud penderfyniadau o'r fath rywbryd yn y dyfodol yn dymuno pwyso a mesur yr effaith yn ei chyfanrwydd. Bydd yn ceisio ystyried pa effaith y byddai newid cyfraddau treth incwm Cymru yn ei chael yn yr amgylchiadau anodd a amlinellwyd yn glir iawn gan Mike Hedges yn gynharach, nid yn unig ar drethdalwyr unigol ac ar refeniw Llywodraeth Cymru, ond hefyd ar economi Cymru. Felly, bydd yn benderfyniad llawer mwy cymhleth nag un a ddehonglwyd dim ond ar y telerau cyfyng hynny y nododd Mark Reckless. Gerbron y Pwyllgor Cyllid, Ddirprwy Lywydd, gofynnodd Mr Reckless gyfres o gwestiynau technegol perthnasol iawn i mi am y fframwaith cyllidol, ac roeddwn i'n falch iawn o geisio'u hateb, yna gwyrodd i'r math o wleidyddiaeth damcaniaeth gynllwyn y mae wedi'i chynnig i ni y prynhawn yma. Nid wnaed unrhyw gytundeb. Roedd sail y trafodaethau â'r Prif Ysgrifennydd hwnnw a nodwyd yn fy natganiad, pan ddywedais ein bod wedi cychwyn, wrth drafod y fframwaith, yn benodol ar y sail ein bod yn chwilio am y trefniadau y byddai eu hangen pe bai Bil Cymru yn cael ei basio. Nid oedd oherwydd bod Bil Cymru yn sicr o gael ei basio, ond roeddem yn ceisio sicrhau, erbyn i unrhyw bleidleisiau ar Fil Cymru gael eu cymryd, yn enwedig yn y man hwn, y byddwn i'n gallu dweud wrth Aelodau naill ai, 'Mae gennym fframwaith cyllidol sy'n eich galluogi i bwyso a mesur Bil Cymru yn ei rinweddau ei hun', neu 'Mae'r fframwaith cyllidol wedi dod yn rhwystr i allu Llywodraeth Cymru i argymell Bil Cymru i chi'. Cymerwyd y penderfyniad a gymerodd fy ngrŵp neithiwr mewn trafodaeth drylwyr iawn, manwl iawn a fforensig iawn ynghylch Bil Cymru, lle'r oedd y fframwaith cyllidol, fel yr wyf wedi'i ddweud heddiw - ac y mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi dweud yn flaenorol - bellach yn elfen niwtral. Nid oedd bellach yn rhwystr i benderfynu cefnogi Bil Cymru. Nid oedd cystal fel bod gwerth pleidleisio dros Fil Cymru na ellid ei gefnogi yn ei rinweddau ei hun. Ac mae'r trafodaethau i gyd wedi eu cynnal ar y telerau syml iawn a di-gynllwyn hynny.