English: Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I'd like to formally move amendment 55 concerning indemnity cover. It is an absolute ambition, which I rightly support, that Welsh Government should increase the number of volunteers who sign up to support and to run and be part of the citizen voice body. However, we must also be prepared to protect them. Unnecessary involvement in court cases would have a devastating effect on the number of volunteers that we could attract, and it takes up a huge amount of time, and we don't want to see the citizen voice body being distracted from its main objective. I noted at Stage 2 that, currently, community health councils do have indemnity for their members, with the code of conduct stating: 'An individual CHC member who has acted honestly and in good faith will not have to meet out of his or her own personal resources any personal civil liability which is incurred in execution of purported execution of his or her CHC functions, save where the person has acted recklessly'. Now, the chief executive of the CHC also told me that it would be essential that volunteer members acting on behalf of the new citizen voice body are properly identified, and if it is to be the responsibility of the new body to make its own arrangements to provide such cover through that indemnity insurance, then the body would need to receive adequate funding to meet the cost of this insurance. And it's our understanding that such indemnity is unlikely to be necessary for staff, as the body would normally be vicariously liable for anything done by staff in the course of their duty. Now, I think this is a really important amendment because, from my own personal experience at Hywel Dda, I had a situation where the Hywel Dda community health council was being sued by the organisation that had put together a consultation on - sorry, I've forgotten which one, but there have been a number of different changes and different consultations out there to change the direction of travel and the formation of services within Hywel Dda. But what we had was the CHC representing its citizens and saying, 'This consultation has not been done fairly; it's not been spread out across the whole of the Hywel Dda region in an appropriately fair, balanced manner', and they were threatened with being sued by the organisation who'd put the consultation together. And I can tell you, I had CHC members coming to see me, good honest people, salt of the earth people, people who were involved, because we're always saying, 'Let's get volunteers involved', who were going, 'Oh, my god, what's going to happen? Am I going to lose everything? How can I be liable personally? I don't understand; I'm doing this on behalf of the CHC.' This is why we need to ensure we have indemnity cover for volunteers as well as staff. At Stage 2, the Minister's response was to explain that under 'Managing Welsh Public Money' it will be up to the board of the CVB to purchase an indemnity insurance policy, or to use their own resources to indemnify volunteers. And in his letter to the Chair of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee on 26 February, the Minister outlined that it would be up to the chief executive of the new body to decide whether to provide indemnity by bearing the risk, or through the purchase of commercial cover, and such a decision should always be made after cost-benefit analysis, in order to secure value for money under 'Managing Welsh Public Money' rules. Now, I do accept the Minister's assertion that the appropriate mechanism for providing indemnity will be determined during the implementation phase for the citizen voice body. But as I said at Stage 2, while the CHCs have put in place procedures to rectify the issues that they encountered in 2013, it is unclear whether the CVB will have similar procedures. And I still have concerns about the possible consequences of not having an indemnity procedure set out. And without that indemnity set out for the CVB, this could still put a great number of people off volunteering for a very, very worthy organisation. We need to be aware that indemnity protection will inevitably eat into the CVB's budget, and therefore we need assurances from the Minister that the Welsh Government will provide sufficient resources to be able to purchase that indemnity for volunteers and staff.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Hoffwn gynnig gwelliant 55 yn ffurfiol ynghylch yswiriant indemniad. Mae'n uchelgais llwyr, y mae'n briodol imi ei chefnogi, y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru gynyddu nifer y gwirfoddolwyr sy'n cofrestru i gefnogi a rhedeg ac i fod yn rhan o gorff llais y dinesydd. Fodd bynnag, rhaid inni hefyd fod yn barod i'w hamddiffyn. Byddai bod yn rhan o achosion llys yn ddiangen yn cael effaith ddinistriol ar nifer y gwirfoddolwyr y gallem eu denu, ac mae'n cymryd llawer iawn o amser, ac nid ydym eisiau gweld unrhyw beth yn tynnu sylw corff llais y dinesydd oddi ar ei brif amcan. Sylwais yng Nghyfnod 2 fod gan gynghorau iechyd cymuned, ar hyn o bryd, indemniad ar gyfer eu haelodau, gyda'r cod ymddygiad yn datgan: 'Ni fydd yn rhaid i aelodau Cynghorau Iechyd Cymuned sydd wedi gweithredu'n onest ac yn ddidwyll ddiwallu o'u hadnoddau eu hunain unrhyw rwymedigaeth sifil sy'n codi wrth iddynt arfer swyddogaethau'r Cyngor, ac eithrio pan fyddant wedi ymddwyn yn fyrbwyll.' Nawr, dywedodd prif weithredwr y Cyngor Iechyd Cymuned wrthyf ei bod yn hanfodol bod trefniadau adnabod priodol ar gyfer aelodau gwirfoddol sy'n gweithredu ar ran corff llais y dinesydd, ac os mai cyfrifoldeb y corff newydd fydd gwneud ei drefniadau ei hun i ddarparu gwasanaeth o'r fath drwy'r yswiriant indemniad hwnnw, yna byddai angen i'r corff dderbyn cyllid digonol i dalu cost yr yswiriant hwn. Ac rydym yn deall nad yw'n debygol y bydd angen indemniad o'r fath ar gyfer staff, gan y byddai'r corff fel arfer yn atebol am unrhyw beth a wneir gan staff wrth gyflawni eu dyletswydd. Nawr, rwy'n credu bod hwn yn welliant gwirioneddol bwysig oherwydd, o fy mhrofiad personol i yn Hywel Dda, cefais sefyllfa lle'r oedd cyngor iechyd cymuned Hywel Dda yn cael ei erlyn gan y sefydliad a oedd wedi llunio ymgynghoriad ar - mae'n ddrwg gennyf, rwyf wedi anghofio pa un, ond bu nifer o newidiadau gwahanol ac ymgynghoriadau gwahanol i newid cyfeiriad a ffurfiant gwasanaethau ym mwrdd iechyd Hywel Dda. Ond yr hyn a oedd gennym oedd y cyngor iechyd cymuned yn cynrychioli ei ddinasyddion ac yn dweud na chynhaliwyd yr ymgynghoriad hwn yn deg; na hysbyswyd holl ranbarth Hywel Dda amdano mewn modd priodol deg a chytbwys, ac roeddent dan fygythiad o gael eu herlyn gan y sefydliad a roddodd yr ymgynghoriad at ei gilydd. A gallaf ddweud wrthych chi, roedd aelodau'r cynghorau iechyd cymuned yn dod i'm gweld, pobl onest dda, halen y ddaear, pobl oedd yn cymryd rhan, oherwydd rydym ni wastad yn dweud, 'Beth am gael gwirfoddolwyr i gymryd rhan', ac yna'n dweud 'O mam bach, beth sy'n mynd i ddigwydd? A ydw i'n mynd i golli popeth? Sut alla i fod yn atebol yn bersonol? Dydw i ddim yn deall; Rwy'n gwneud hyn ar ran y cyngor iechyd cymuned.' Dyma pam mae angen i ni sicrhau bod gennym ni yswiriant indemniad ar gyfer gwirfoddolwyr yn ogystal â staff. Yng Nghyfnod 2, ymateb y Gweinidog oedd esbonio y bydd yn rhaid i fwrdd corff llais y dinesydd, o dan 'Rheoli Arian Cyhoeddus Cymru', brynu polisi yswiriant indemniad, neu ddefnyddio ei adnoddau ei hun i indemnio gwirfoddolwyr. Ac yn ei lythyr at Gadeirydd y Pwyllgor Iechyd, Gofal Cymdeithasol a Chwaraeon ar 26 Chwefror, amlinellodd y Gweinidog mai gwaith prif weithredwr y corff newydd fyddai penderfynu a ddylid darparu indemniad drwy ysgwyddo'r risg, neu drwy brynu yswiriant masnachol, a dylid gwneud penderfyniad o'r fath ar ôl dadansoddiad cost a budd bob amser, er mwyn sicrhau gwerth am arian o dan reolau 'Rheoli Arian Cyhoeddus Cymru'. Nawr, rwyf yn derbyn haeriad y Gweinidog y pennir y dulliau priodol ar gyfer darparu indemniad yn ystod y cyfnod gweithredu ar gyfer corff llais y dinesydd. Ond fel y dywedais yng Nghyfnod 2, er bod y cynghorau iechyd cymuned wedi rhoi gweithdrefnau ar waith i unioni'r materion a wynebwyd ganddynt yn 2013, nid yw'n glir a fydd gan gorff llais y dinesydd weithdrefnau tebyg. Ac mae gennyf bryderon o hyd ynghylch y canlyniadau posibl pe na bai gweithdrefn indemniad yn cael ei phennu. A heb yr indemniad hwnnw ar gyfer corff llais y dinesydd, gallai hyn achosi nifer fawr o bobl i droi eu cefnau ar wirfoddoli ar gyfer sefydliad teilwng iawn, iawn. Mae angen inni fod yn ymwybodol y bydd amddiffyn rhag indemniad yn anochel yn effeithio ar gyllideb corff llais y dinesydd, ac felly mae angen i'r Gweinidog ein sicrhau y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu digon o adnoddau er mwyn gallu prynu'r indemniad hwnnw ar gyfer gwirfoddolwyr a staff.