English: I wanted to say, 'Well, I used to teach higher education international students, from within the EU and outside the EU,' and I was going to say about what great relationships I had with those students, but I didn't want to go any further then, following what Bethan Sayed was saying. [ Laughter.] The students that contributed to my courses brought a whole range of different experiences and backgrounds, and you can see in one classroom, whether they're European Union or non-European Union, the value that these students bring to our economy, and of course, also - Universities Wales has commissioned research - they also come and spend money here, and they have a value directly into the economy on which we rely. I wanted to concentrate on recommendations 1, 2 and 7. With regard to recommendation 1, in the response the Minister has said 'accept in principle' to what Suzy Davies recognised as quite an innovative approach, and we should see if we can take this further anyway - proactively demand executive powers for Welsh Ministers over spatially different immigration rules for students and academic staff. I think that's an innovative approach, and it recognises the kind of devolution settlement we might want to see collectively in the future, apart from, of course, Michelle Brown, who is not supporting recommendation 1 by her absence today. I think we can be quite innovative about this. Suzy Davies would say - I'm not party political for the sake of being so, but I do have to note what the Minister says in her response to recommendation 1: 'Our aim is to ensure the Welsh economy is not adversely affected by an overly restrictive migration system and that Welsh Universities are able to meet their future staffing and student needs.' Well, yes. The UK Government has now got this White Paper and the Bill going through on immigration, but I don't share our Chair's optimism that it will lead to any better policy, because I have to say, Theresa May, as Home Secretary, introduced incredibly restrictive immigration practices for international students outside the EU, and all I can think is that those incredibly restrictive practices will be imposed on EU students now. So, it won't be the fact that we will be able to offer international students outside the EU the same equality that EU students enjoy now; quite the opposite. Those EU students will be closed down as a result of UK Government policy, and therefore I think recommendation 1 should still hold, and still has a lot to recommend it. With regard to recommendation 2, the Minister accepts in principle and says that universities are 'independent, autonomous bodies' - that they are, that they are - and therefore it would be inappropriate to commission this study. But when it comes to, say, housing, that wouldn't stop us commissioning a study. Housing companies are independent, autonomous bodies, but it doesn't stop us commissioning a study as to why houses aren't being built. I don't see why we cannot support the university sector - some would say the more worthy university sector - as it's currently structured, by commissioning studies into how students will be affected by the consequences of Brexit. I would urge the Minister to reconsider on that ground, particularly in terms of the parameters that are imposed on her with regard to continued participation in Erasmus+ post Brexit. Which brings me to recommendation 7, which is about Erasmus+. The vice-chancellor of Cardiff University, Professor Colin Riordan, has called on the UK Government to create an alternative back-up scheme, but, with 'no deal' Brexit looming, and looming ever closer every day, it appears that that will be in vain. Let's focus on what the Welsh Government can do. The report notably places the blame for an unwillingness to engage on the European Commission and the response from the Government on the European Commission and calls for the UK Government to urgently set aside funds for an alternative to Erasmus+. Can I ask the Cabinet Secretary? She said she's awaiting responses from the Government to the House of Lords' committee's report. This is changing daily; perhaps she's had an update since. But can she also tell us, in addition to what has happened since she wrote her letter to us on 15 March, what engagement she has had with the European Commission? Maybe we should bypass the UK Government and go to the European Commission directly on the principle of subsidiarity - those decisions taken relevant to those areas in which they have most effect. Has she considered that as a process and a decision? I think the report, as it's presented, is a good one, and I think it gives us a very clear insight into the problems faced by higher education as a result of Brexit.
Welsh: Roeddwn am ddweud, 'Wel, roeddwn i'n arfer dysgu myfyrwyr rhyngwladol addysg uwch, yn hanu o'r UE ac o'r tu allan i'r UE,' ac roeddwn yn mynd i ddweud am y berthynas wych oedd gennyf gyda'r myfyrwyr hynny, ond nid oeddwn am fynd gam ymhellach wedyn, yn sgil beth oedd Bethan Sayed yn ei ddweud. [ Chwerthin.] Roedd y myfyrwyr a gyfrannai at fy nghyrsiau yn dod ag amrywiaeth eang o wahanol brofiadau a chefndiroedd, a gallwch weld mewn un ystafell ddosbarth, boed yn hanu o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd neu o'r tu hwnt i'r Undeb Ewropeaidd, y gwerth y mae'r myfyrwyr hyn yn ei gyfrannu i'n heconomi, ac wrth gwrs, hefyd - mae Prifysgolion Cymru wedi comisiynu ymchwil - maent yn dod ac yn gwario arian yma, ac mae iddynt werth uniongyrchol i'r economi rydym yn dibynnu arni. Roeddwn am ganolbwyntio ar argymhellion 1, 2 a 7. O ran argymhelliad 1, yn yr ymateb mae'r Gweinidog wedi dweud 'derbyn mewn egwyddor' i'r hyn y cydnabu Suzy Davies ei fod yn ddull go arloesol o weithredu, a dylem weld a allwn fynd â hyn ymhellach beth bynnag - mynd ati'n rhagweithiol i fynnu pwerau gweithredol i Weinidogion Cymru dros reolau mewnfudo gofodol wahanol ar gyfer myfyrwyr a staff academaidd. Rwy'n meddwl bod honno'n ymagwedd arloesol, ac mae'n cydnabod y math o setliad datganoli yr hoffem ei weld ar y cyd yn y dyfodol, ar wahân i Michelle Brown, wrth gwrs, nad yw'n cefnogi argymhelliad 1 yn ôl ei habsenoldeb heddiw. Credaf y gallwn fod yn eithaf arloesol ynglŷn â hyn. Byddai Suzy Davies yn dweud - nid wyf yn bod yn wleidyddol er mwyn bod yn wleidyddol, ond rhaid imi nodi beth y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei ddweud yn ei hymateb i argymhelliad 1: 'Ein nod yw sicrhau nad yw economi Cymru yn cael ei heffeithio'n andwyol gan system mudo gyfyngol a bod Prifysgolion Cymru yn gallu bodloni eu hanghenion at y dyfodol' Wel, ie. Bellach mae gan Lywodraeth y DU y Papur Gwyn hwn a'r Bil sy'n mynd rhagddo ar fewnfudo, ond nid wyf yn rhannu optimistiaeth ein Cadeirydd y bydd yn arwain at unrhyw bolisi gwell, oherwydd rhaid imi ddweud, cyflwynodd Theresa May, fel Ysgrifennydd Cartref, arferion mewnfudo anhygoel o gyfyngol ar gyfer myfyrwyr rhyngwladol y tu allan i'r UE, a'r oll y gallaf feddwl yw y bydd yr arferion anhygoel o gyfyngol hynny'n cael eu gosod ar gyfer myfyrwyr yr UE yn awr. Felly, ni fyddwn yn gallu cynnig yr un cydraddoldeb i fyfyrwyr rhyngwladol o'r tu allan i'r UE ag y mae myfyrwyr o'r UE yn ei fwynhau yn awr; i'r gwrthwyneb yn llwyr. Bydd myfyrwyr o'r UE yn cael eu cyfyngu o ganlyniad i bolisi Llywodraeth y DU, a chredaf felly y dylai argymhelliad 1 ddal i sefyll, ac mae llawer o rinwedd ynddo. O ran argymhelliad 2, roedd y Gweinidog yn derbyn mewn egwyddor ac yn dweud bod prifysgolion yn gyrff 'annibynnol ac ymreolaethol' - ac mae hynny'n wir - ac felly y byddai'n amhriodol comisiynu'r astudiaeth hon. Ond yn y maes tai, dyweder, ni fyddai hynny'n ein hatal rhag comisiynu astudiaeth. Mae cwmnïau tai yn gyrff annibynnol ac ymreolaethol, ond nid yw hynny yn ein hatal rhag comisiynu astudiaeth ynglŷn â pham nad oes tai'n cael eu hadeiladu. Nid wyf yn gweld pam na allwn gefnogi'r sector prifysgolion - byddai rhai'n dweud y sector prifysgolion mwy teilwng - fel y mae wedi'i strwythuro ar hyn o bryd, drwy gomisiynu astudiaethau ar sut y bydd canlyniadau Brexit yn effeithio ar fyfyrwyr. Buaswn yn annog y Gweinidog i ailystyried ar y sail honno, yn enwedig o ran y paramedrau a osodir arni mewn perthynas â pharhau i gymryd rhan yn Erasmus+ ar ôl Brexit. Sy'n dod â mi at argymhelliad 7, sy'n ymwneud ag Erasmus+. Mae is-ganghellor Prifysgol Caerdydd, yr Athro Colin Riordan, wedi galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i greu cynllun wrth gefn amgen, ond gyda Brexit 'dim bargen' ar y gorwel, ac yn nesu fwyfwy bob dydd, mae'n ymddangos mai ofer fyddai gwneud hynny. Gadewch inni ganolbwyntio ar yr hyn y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud. Mae'r adroddiad yn rhoi'r bai yn amlwg am amharodrwydd i gymryd rhan ar y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd a'r ymateb gan y Llywodraeth ar y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd ac yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i neilltuo cronfeydd ar frys ar gyfer rhywbeth amgen yn lle Erasmus+. A gaf fi ofyn i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet? Dywedodd ei bod yn aros am ymatebion gan y Llywodraeth i adroddiad y pwyllgor Tŷ'r Arglwyddi. Mae hyn yn newid bob dydd; efallai ei bod wedi cael diweddariad ers hynny. Ond a all ddweud wrthym hefyd, yn ogystal â beth sydd wedi digwydd ers iddi ysgrifennu ei llythyr atom ar 15 Mawrth, pa gysylltiad a gafodd gyda'r Comisiwn Ewropeaidd? Efallai y dylem basio heibio i Lywodraeth y DU a mynd at y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd yn uniongyrchol ar yr egwyddor o sybsidiaredd - penderfyniadau a wneir sy'n berthnasol i'r ardaloedd y maent yn effeithio fwyaf arnynt. A yw wedi ystyried honno fel proses a phenderfyniad? Credaf fod yr adroddiad, fel y'i cyflwynir, yn un da, ac mae'n rhoi cipolwg clir iawn inni ar y problemau sy'n wynebu addysg uwch o ganlyniad i Brexit.