English: Thanks to the Minister for today's statement. We seem to find ourselves in a bit of a strange situation now with this long-running local government reorganisation, and I appreciate that it was long-running before you came into the job, so I'm not casting aspersions at your efforts so far - at least not totally casting aspersions at your efforts so far. We seem to be in a position where the 22 local authorities in Wales are being encouraged to go for voluntary mergers now, even though many or indeed most of them have already suggested strongly that they're against mergers full stop. There is evidence that many of them are now working collaboratively on sharing services with their neighbouring authorities. Indeed, this isn't really a choice for them, given the shortage of money in local government; it's more of a financial imperative. Councils are going to have to work more collaboratively in this financial climate or the alternative will be cutting more services. So, collaborative working is coming in, whether councils want to do it or not. What is not so clear is whether we are moving with any purpose at all towards actual mergers. The Minister now proposes to set up a joint working group with the WLGA to talk about possible mergers - and other matters, no doubt. It's probably a good idea to have this group in some senses, in that it does represent some form of consultation. But, as I said at the start of my response, this has been going on for some time now, this whole reorganisation. So, at some point, presumably, you or some other local government Minister will have to decide whether or not to make any mergers. Your group, chaired by Derek Vaughan, does sound a little bit like kicking the can down the road. When do you think we might now expect a decision on mergers? Will we have a definitive decision by next summer, for instance? Now, it strikes me that the councils in Wales don't seem too keen on mergers, but they are involved in this collaborative working. Given this, might it not be a good idea to move away slightly from the idea of mergers and more towards collaboration? I don't mean abandoning the idea of mergers, but at least beginning a parallel course in favour of collaboration. Could you perhaps effectively monitor collaboration, incentivise it, and reward those councils who can demonstrate that they are saving the public purse effectively by such collaboration? Would this be a way forward? Now, if you can get voluntary mergers, that would be a good outcome, but we do need to steer clear of one-sided forced mergers, by which I mean one local authority that has designs on another local authority. We have the local example of Cardiff county council, which has expressed its designs on a merger with the Vale of Glamorgan, as evidenced by Huw Thomas's recent statements. Well, we went through this last time - the Vale of Glamorgan never wanted a merger with Cardiff. They never expressed any desire to merge with Cardiff. In fact, when they had the idea of voluntary mergers last term, they expressed a desire to merge with Bridgend. So, given that the Vale have never suggested that they have any inclination towards merging with Cardiff, could you assure us that we won't have this outcome if it's demonstrably the case that the majority of the Vale council has no desire for this outcome? Lastly, Mike Hedges isn't here today, but he normally is present on these occasions. I think he has raised a quite valid point on numerous occasions, which is - . He talks about the fact that we've had local government reorganisations at regular intervals, roughly every 20 to 25 years, and they're always called the definitive reorganisation, and then, 20 years later, we start talking about another one. The one point that he's made flowing from that is: can we demonstrate from any of these reorganisations that bigger councils necessarily lead to significant cost savings? I think we do need to look at this and to see if there is any evidence basis that bigger councils will necessarily lead to reduced costs to the public purse. There is also the example of the enlarged health boards as well. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Welsh: Diolch i'r Gweinidog am y datganiad heddiw. Mae'n ymddangos ein bod ni mewn sefyllfa eithaf od nawr gyda'r broses hir hon o ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol, ac rwy'n sylweddoli ei bod hi'n broses hir cyn ichi ddod i'r swydd, felly dydw i ddim yn lladd ar eich ymdrechion hyd yma - o leiaf ddim yn lladd ar eich ymdrechion hyd yma yn llwyr. Mae'n ymddangos ein bod ni mewn sefyllfa lle mae'r 22 awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru yn cael eu hannog i fynd am uno gwirfoddol nawr, er bod llawer, neu yn wir y rhan fwyaf ohonyn nhw, eisoes wedi awgrymu'n gryf eu bod nhw yn erbyn uno o unrhyw fath. Mae yna dystiolaeth bod llawer ohonyn nhw nawr yn gweithio ar y cyd ar rannu gwasanaethau ag awdurdodau cyfagos. Yn wir, dydy hyn ddim wir yn ddewis iddyn nhw, o ystyried y prinder arian mewn llywodraeth leol; mae'n fwy o reidrwydd ariannol. Bydd rhaid i gynghorau gydweithio mwy yn yr hinsawdd ariannol hon neu y dewis arall fydd torri mwy o wasanaethau. Felly, mae gweithio ar y cyd yn dod, beth bynnag yr hoffai cynghorau ei wneud. Un peth sydd ddim mor glir yw a ydym ni'n symud gydag unrhyw ddiben o gwbl tuag at uno gwirioneddol. Mae'r Gweinidog nawr yn cynnig sefydlu gweithgor ar y cyd â CLlLC i sôn am uno posibl - a materion eraill, mae'n siŵr. Mae'n siŵr bod y grŵp hwn yn syniad da mewn rhai ffyrdd, gan ei fod yn cynrychioli rhyw fath o ymgynghoriad. Ond, fel y dywedais ar ddechrau fy ymateb, mae hyn wedi bod yn digwydd ers cryn amser nawr, yr holl ad-drefnu hwn. Felly, ar ryw adeg, yn ôl pob tebyg, bydd yn rhaid i chi neu ryw Weinidog llywodraeth leol arall benderfynu a ddylid gwneud unrhyw uno ai peidio. Mae eich grŵp chi, o dan gadeiryddiaeth Derek Vaughan, yn swnio ychydig fel cicio'r tun i lawr y ffordd. Pryd ydych chi'n meddwl y gallwn ni nawr ddisgwyl penderfyniad ar uno? A gawn ni benderfyniad terfynol erbyn yr haf nesaf, er enghraifft? Nawr, mae'n fy nharo i nad yw cynghorau Cymru yn ymddangos yn rhy awyddus i uno, ond maen nhw'n gwneud y gwaith hwn ar y cyd. O gofio hyn, oni fyddai'n syniad da i symud i ffwrdd ychydig oddi wrth y syniad o uno a mwy tuag at gydweithredu? Dydw i ddim yn sôn am gefnu ar y syniad o uno, ond o leiaf ddechrau ar gwrs cyfochrog o blaid cydweithio. A allech chi efallai fonitro cydweithrediad, a'i gymell, yn effeithiol, a gwobrwyo'r cynghorau hynny sy'n gallu dangos eu bod nhw'n arbed arian i'r pwrs cyhoeddus yn effeithiol drwy gydweithio fel hyn? A fyddai hyn yn ffordd ymlaen? Nawr, os gallwch chi sicrhau uno gwirfoddol, byddai hynny'n ganlyniad da, ond mae angen inni gadw draw o uno wedi'i orfodi mewn modd unochrog, hynny yw, bod un awdurdod lleol yn bwriadu meddiannu awdurdod lleol arall. Mae gennym enghraifft leol cyngor sir Caerdydd, sydd wedi mynegi yr hoffen nhw uno â Bro Morgannwg, fel y dangosodd datganiadau diweddar Huw Thomas. Wel, aethom ni drwy hyn y tro diwethaf - doedd Bro Morgannwg byth am uno â Chaerdydd. Wnaethon nhw erioed fynegi unrhyw awydd i uno â Chaerdydd. Yn wir, pan oedd y syniad o uno gwirfoddol ganddyn nhw y tymor diwethaf, gwnaethon nhw fynegi dymuniad i uno gyda Phen-y-bont ar Ogwr. Felly, o gofio nad yw'r Fro erioed wedi awgrymu bod ganddynt unrhyw awydd i uno â Chaerdydd, a allech ein sicrhau na chawn ni'r canlyniad hwn os yw'n amlwg yn wir nad oes gan y rhan fwyaf o gyngor y Fro ddim awydd am y canlyniad hwn? Yn olaf, dydy Mike Hedges ddim yma heddiw, ond mae ef fel arfer yn bresennol ar yr adegau hyn. Rwy'n meddwl ei fod ef wedi codi pwynt eithaf dilys ar sawl achlysur, sef - . Mae'n sôn am y ffaith bod ad-drefnu llywodraeth leol wedi digwydd yma yn rheolaidd, tua bob 20 i 25 mlynedd, a bod pob un yn cael ei alw'n ad-drefnu diffiniol, ac yna, 20 mlynedd yn ddiweddarach, rydym ni'n dechrau sôn am un arall. Yr un pwynt y mae ef wedi'i wneud sy'n deillio o hynny yw: a allwn ni ddangos o unrhyw un o'r ad-drefniadau bod cynghorau mwy o reidrwydd yn arwain at arbedion cost sylweddol? Rwy'n meddwl bod angen inni edrych ar hyn a gweld a oes unrhyw sail dystiolaeth y bydd cynghorau mwy o reidrwydd yn arwain at ostwng costau i bwrs y wlad. Hefyd, ceir enghraifft y byrddau iechyd mwy yn ogystal. Diolch yn fawr iawn.