English: I thank Rhun ap Iorwerth for that. I am not going to criticise the Member for making the case of his party. He has made it eloquently this afternoon, and he's got every possible right to do that. But what I have to say to him is this: he asked me why not find this moment as the moment to place in discussion the prospect that he set out. I just have to say to him that we had that moment; we had that moment only a short number of weeks ago. In studio after studio I stood alongside his party leader while he placed the prospect that he has just outlined in front of the Welsh people. Time after time, at the very centre of that party's campaign was the prospect and the prospectus we have just heard. That was the point at which it was discussed, and we saw the verdict of Welsh people. That is why I think this is not the moment to go on thinking that we should spend the next five years talking about a proposition that won't be in front of the Welsh people. What we should be talking about is how we make the best of the arrangements we have, and that's what the document aims to do. It is a fundamentally different prospectus to the one that Rhun ap Iorwerth set out. He talks about the power of solidarity, but I suppose I have never myself believed that the way to demonstrate the power of solidarity is by leaving something. I think you demonstrate the power of solidarity by staying and by crafting a future in which we can go on demonstrating the things that unite us, rather than the things that can divide us one from another. That is more difficult and it is more urgent, because of the Government that we have. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson said that UK Governments had always had the ability to take back to themselves decisions that had been devolved to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and he will see in our proposition that we say that that should not be the case, that that right should now be given up. But until this Government, all previous Governments had acted with a self-denying ordinance as far as that was concerned. Every Labour Government in the first decade of devolution provided more powers, more responsibilities for the Senedd, and never took a single power away and never once acted against a motion passed by this Senedd under the Sewel convention. Even when Mrs May was Prime Minister, we were able to come to an agreement with the UK Government in negotiations led by David Lidington, in fact, in a way that avoided some of the dangers that we could both see there if the UK Government used the powers that it had. It is only since December 2019 that we have seen a Government intent on using those powers, and that's why publishing our document becomes so important, because it does offer us a different prospect to the one that the Member set out, and which, as I say, was very directly rehearsed in front of Welsh people only weeks ago and very directly rejected by them. I think there are different conversations to be had. I know there will be Members of his party who will be willing to have them. Not because it gets them to where they would like to be, but because they recognise that there is still ground to be gained in the interim. For them, that will be an interim position; for others it will be something more permanent. But I still think that a conversation is one to which anybody in this Senedd who has a serious interest in the future of the Senedd, its place in the United Kingdom - anybody with a serious interest would want to commit themselves to having that conversation.
Welsh: Rwy'n diolch i Rhun ap Iorwerth am hynny. Nid wyf i am feirniadu'r Aelod am ddadlau achos ei blaid ef ei hun. Mae wedi gwneud hynny'n huawdl y prynhawn yma, ac mae ganddo bob hawl bosibl i wneud hynny. Ond yr hyn sydd gennyf i i'w ddweud wrtho ef yw hyn: fe ofynnodd pam nad ydym ni'n gweld y foment hon yn foment i ddechrau trafod y posibilrwydd a nododd ef. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud wrtho ein bod ni newydd gael y foment honno; dim ond ychydig iawn o wythnosau yn ôl y daeth y foment honno. O stiwdio i stiwdio roeddwn i'n sefyll yn ymyl arweinydd ei blaid ef wrth i hwnnw roi'r posibilrwydd sydd newydd gael ei amlinellu gerbron pobl Cymru. Dro ar ôl tro, wrth wraidd ymgyrch y blaid honno oedd y posibilrwydd a'r prosbectws yr ydym ni newydd ei glywed. Honno oedd y foment i drafod hynny, ac fe gawsom ni ddyfarniad ar hynny gan bobl Cymru. Dyna pam rwy'n credu nad hon yw'r foment i barhau i feddwl y dylem ni dreulio'r pum mlynedd nesaf yn siarad am gynnig na chaiff ei roi gerbron pobl Cymru. Yr hyn y dylem ni fod yn sôn amdano yw sut rydym am wneud y mwyaf o'r trefniadau sydd gennym, a dyna'r hyn y mae'r ddogfen hon yn ceisio ei wneud. Mae hwn yn brosbectws sylfaenol wahanol i'r un a nodwyd gan Rhun ap Iorwerth. Mae ef yn sôn am rym undod, ond mae'n debyg nad wyf i erioed wedi credu mai'r ffordd orau o arddangos grym undod yw drwy ymadael â rhywbeth. Rwyf i o'r farn eich bod yn dangos grym undod drwy aros ynddo a thrwy lunio dyfodol lle gallwn barhau i arddangos y pethau sy'n ein huno ni â'n gilydd, yn hytrach na'r pethau a all ein gwahanu ni. Mae hwnnw'n fater anos sydd â thaer ofyn amdano, oherwydd y Llywodraeth sydd gennym ni. Fe ddywedodd llefarydd Plaid Cymru fod Llywodraethau'r DU bob amser wedi bod â'r gallu i ddadwneud penderfyniadau a ddatganolwyd i Gymru, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon. Fe wêl yn ein cynnig ni ein bod ni'n dweud na ddylai hyn ddigwydd, y dylid rhoi'r gorau i ymarfer yr hawl honno nawr. Ond hyd nes i'r Llywodraeth hon fod mewn grym, roedd pob Llywodraeth flaenorol wedi gweithredu gyda deddfiad ymataliol yn y cyswllt hwn. Rhoddodd pob Llywodraeth Lafur yn ystod degawd cyntaf datganoli fwy o bwerau, a mwy o gyfrifoldebau i'r Senedd, ac ni chymerwyd yr un pŵer yn ôl ac ni weithredwyd erioed yn erbyn unrhyw gynnig a basiwyd gan y Senedd hon dan gonfensiwn Sewel. Hyd yn oed pan oedd Mrs May yn Brif Weinidog, roeddem ni'n gallu dod i gytundeb â Llywodraeth y DU mewn trafodaethau dan arweiniad David Lidington, mewn ffordd a oedd yn osgoi rhai o'r peryglon y gallai'r ddau ohonom ni eu dirnad pe bai Llywodraeth y DU yn defnyddio'r pwerau a oedd yn ei meddiant. Dim ond ers mis Rhagfyr 2019 yr ydym ni wedi gweld Llywodraeth sy'n benderfynol o ddefnyddio'r pwerau hynny, a dyna pam mae cyhoeddi ein dogfen ni mor bwysig, oherwydd mae'n cynnig gobaith gwahanol i'r un a nodwyd gan yr Aelod, ac a oedd, fel y dywedais, wedi ei roi'n uniongyrchol iawn gerbron pobl Cymru ychydig wythnosau yn ôl ac wedi cael ei wrthod yn uniongyrchol iawn ganddyn nhw hefyd. Rwyf i o'r farn fod yna sgyrsiau amgen i'w cael. Fe wn i y bydd yna Aelodau o'i blaid ef yn fodlon cael hynny. Nid oherwydd y cânt eu cludo i'r man delfrydol yn eu golwg nhw, ond am eu bod nhw'n cydnabod bod tir eto i'w ennill yn y cyfamser. Iddyn nhw, fe fydd honno'n sefyllfa dros dro; i eraill fe fydd yn rhywbeth mwy parhaol. Ond rwy'n dal i gredu bod y sgwrs yn un y byddai unrhyw un yn y Senedd hon sydd â diddordeb difrifol yn nyfodol y Senedd, ei lle hi yn y Deyrnas Unedig - unrhyw un sydd â diddordeb gwirioneddol yn dymuno ymrwymo i gael y sgwrs honno.