English: I'm pleased to say a few words in this debate and thank Janet Finch-Saunders and indeed the Petitions Committee for having considered an important petition. I first raised the issue of Debenhams a number of weeks ago now when the threat to the Welsh stores in Newport and Swansea, I think it was, were first mentioned and first emerged in my local press. I think it's very easy for us to focus on the need to support small businesses and medium-sized enterprises during the pandemic, and, of course, that is vitally important, and in my own constituency in my area of south Wales you've got market towns, you've got small shops that do need support, but at the same time, I think if we take our eye off the ball and we don't look at ways that we can support the larger anchor stores as well, then we're going to be missing something. And as Janet Finch-Saunders said in opening, the way that the business rate regime is working in Wales - the non-domestic rate regime - that does mean that stores like Debenhams have felt threatened. I think it would be too easy to think, 'Well, okay, they're larger companies, they'll be all right.' At the end of the day, if we lose a store such as the flagship store in Newport, which has only been open for a few years now, relatively speaking, we lose a lot of jobs, we lose a major anchor store in that area that brings people in who are then going to shop in surrounding shops and support the local economy. And although it's in the neighbouring constituency - it's in Newport West, in Jayne Bryant's area - of course, many people in my area go down to that store and many people work there. So, thank you for taking this petition on, Janet, and can I thank the members of the Petitions Committee for doing that and bringing this debate here today? Let's urge the Welsh Government to look again at the non-domestic rates relief scheme. Yes, the Welsh Government has done a number of things to try and support businesses and particularly smaller businesses, but let's not lose sight of the fact that the large stores like Debenhams need the support. I'd also like to hear from the Minister, when the Minister does respond, as to an update on the discussions that have been held with the management of Debenhams, because I think, from what I know from what they've said, they've had some very good ideas, which hopefully we can come to an accommodation on where all sides will be satisfied. But thank you for this debate today.
Welsh: Rwy'n falch o ddweud ychydig eiriau yn y ddadl hon a diolch i Janet Finch-Saunders ac yn wir i'r Pwyllgor Deisebau am ystyried deiseb bwysig. Codais fater Debenhams yn gyntaf ychydig wythnosau'n ôl bellach pan soniwyd gyntaf am y bygythiad i siopau Cymru yng Nghasnewydd ac Abertawe, rwy'n credu, a'r tro cyntaf i'r mater gael sylw yn fy ngwasg leol. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn hawdd iawn inni ganolbwyntio ar yr angen i gefnogi busnesau bach a chanolig yn ystod y pandemig, ac wrth gwrs, mae hynny'n hanfodol bwysig, ac yn fy etholaeth fy hun yn fy ardal i o dde Cymru, mae gennych drefi marchnad, mae gennych siopau bach sydd angen cymorth, ond ar yr un pryd, os tynnwn ein llygad oddi ar y bêl ac os nad edrychwn ar ffyrdd y gallwn gefnogi'r siopau angori mwy o faint hefyd, rwy'n credu y byddwn yn esgeuluso rhywbeth. Ac fel y dywedodd Janet Finch-Saunders wrth agor, mae'r ffordd y mae'r gyfundrefn ardrethi busnes yn gweithio yng Nghymru - y gyfundrefn ardrethi annomestig - yn golygu bod siopau fel Debenhams wedi teimlo dan fygythiad. Rwy'n credu y byddai'n rhy hawdd inni feddwl, 'Wel, iawn, maent yn gwmnïau mwy o faint, byddant yn iawn.' Yn y pen draw, os collwn siop fel y siop flaenllaw yng Nghasnewydd, sydd ond wedi bod ar agor ers rhai blynyddoedd bellach, siop gymharol newydd, rydym yn colli llawer o swyddi, rydym yn colli siop angori fawr yn yr ardal honno sy'n dod â phobl i mewn, pobl sy'n mynd wedyn i siopa mewn siopau cyfagos a chefnogi'r economi leol. Ac er ei fod yn yr etholaeth gyfagos - mae yng Ngorllewin Casnewydd, yn ardal Jayne Bryant - mae llawer o bobl yn fy ardal i yn mynd i lawr i'r siop honno wrth gwrs ac mae llawer o bobl yn gweithio yno. Felly, diolch i chi am gyflwyno'r ddeiseb hon, Janet, ac a gaf fi ddiolch i aelodau'r Pwyllgor Deisebau am wneud hynny a chyflwyno'r ddadl hon yma heddiw? Gadewch inni annog Llywodraeth Cymru i ailedrych ar y cynllun rhyddhad ardrethi annomestig. Ydy, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud nifer o bethau i geisio cefnogi busnesau ac yn arbennig busnesau llai o faint, ond gadewch inni beidio â cholli golwg ar y ffaith bod angen y cymorth ar y siopau mawr fel Debenhams. Hoffwn glywed y newyddion diweddaraf gan y Gweinidog hefyd, pan fydd yn ymateb, am y trafodaethau a gynhaliwyd gyda rheolwyr Debenhams hefyd, oherwydd o'r hyn y gwn eu bod wedi'i ddweud, rwy'n credu bod ganddynt syniadau da iawn, a gobeithio y gallwn ddod i drefniant a fydd yn plesio pob ochr. Ond diolch am y ddadl hon heddiw.