techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I've listened very carefully to what people have been saying, and I'm very grateful for the support that I've had, certainly on the opposition benches, to the proposal that I want to take forward. I'm obviously very disappointed that the Government doesn't see eye to eye with me in this regard, about this being an appropriate way to take forward the rights-based agenda for older people. The Government, of course, has made reference to a piecemeal approach. Well, we have a piecemeal approach now, which was started by the Government in respect of children and young people's rights, and that is something that we all felt it was necessary to address. And as David Rowlands quite rightly said, young people have their rights protected in Welsh law and older people deserve to have theirs protected too.
Welsh: Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwyf wedi gwrando'n ofalus iawn ar yr hyn y mae pobl wedi bod yn ei ddweud, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn am y gefnogaeth a gefais, yn sicr ar feinciau'r wrthblaid, i'r cynnig rwyf am fwrw ymlaen ag ef. Yn amlwg, rwy'n siomedig iawn fod y Llywodraeth yn anghydweld â mi yn hyn o beth, ynglŷn â bod hon yn ffordd briodol o fwrw ymlaen â'r agenda sy'n seiliedig ar hawliau ar gyfer pobl hŷn. Wrth gwrs, mae'r Llywodraeth wedi cyfeirio at ddull tameidiog o weithredu. Wel, dull tameidiog sydd gennym yn awr, un a ddechreuwyd gan y Llywodraeth mewn perthynas â hawliau plant a phobl ifanc, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth roedd pawb ohonom yn teimlo bod angen mynd i'r afael ag ef. Ac fel y dywedodd David Rowlands yn hollol gywir, mae hawliau pobl ifanc wedi eu diogelu yng nghyfraith Cymru, ac mae pobl hŷn yn haeddu cael eu hawliau hwy wedi'u diogelu hefyd.
English: Yes, very briefly.
Welsh: Gwnaf, yn fyr iawn.
English: He says it's piecemeal and gives one example, but I think another example was inferred just now in that insurance companies - our older people will just rely on competition. You can't have an insurance company discriminate on the basis of gender. Why should they be able to do it on the basis of age?
Welsh: Dywed ei fod yn dameidiog ac mae'n rhoi un enghraifft, ond credaf fod enghraifft arall wedi'i hawgrymu yn awr yn y ffaith bod cwmnïau yswiriant - bydd ein pobl hŷn yn dibynnu ar gystadleuaeth. Ni allwch gael cwmni yswiriant yn gwahaniaethu ar sail rhyw. Pam y dylent allu gwneud hynny ar sail oedran?
English: I thank you, Darren, for taking the intervention. You make a very good point, and I agree with that absolutely. We don't know how the vote is going to go today, but could I ask him: if the vote was going - . If his proposal for a Bill isn't taken forward - and based on the offer to take forward not only what is within the spirit and the intent and the detail of his proposal, but also the wider rights agenda - would he, I ask in all reasonableness, be willing then to work with the Minister, with the Government, in order to accomplish that? Because I do actually see the bigger prize as well here. Whether it's on disabled persons' rights, older people's rights, children's rights - there's a huge agenda here going forward. I think that the Government probably - and the Minister has signalled - would welcome your involvement in taking that forward: a different means to the same ends.
Welsh: Diolch, Darren, am gymryd yr ymyriad. Rydych yn gwneud pwynt da iawn, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hynny. Nid ydym yn gwybod sut y mae'r bleidlais yn mynd i fynd heddiw, ond a gaf fi ofyn iddo: pe bai'r bleidlais yn mynd - . Os na fwrir ymlaen â'i gynnig ar gyfer Bil - ac yn seiliedig ar y cynnig i ddatblygu nid yn unig yr hyn sydd o fewn ysbryd a bwriad a manylion ei gynnig, ond hefyd yr agenda hawliau ehangach - a fyddai'n barod, ac rwy'n gofyn hyn yn hollol resymol, yn fodlon gweithio gyda'r Gweinidog wedyn, gyda'r Llywodraeth, ar y gwaith o'i gyflawni? Oherwydd mewn gwirionedd rwy'n gweld y wobr fwy yma hefyd. Pa un a yw'n hawliau pobl anabl, hawliau pobl hŷn, hawliau plant - mae agenda enfawr yma ar gyfer y dyfodol. Credaf y byddai'r Llywodraeth yn ôl pob tebyg - ac mae'r Gweinidog wedi dynodi hyn - yn croesawu eich cyfranogiad wrth fwrw ymlaen â hynny: ffordd wahanol at yr un nod.
English: I've already given a commitment to engage with the Government on that agenda. I'm a member of the cross-party group on human rights. I'm committed to human rights, and I want to further their cause all the way. I think that my concern about the approach being taken by the Government is that it's in its very early stages - it's embryonic. There's absolutely no hope whatsoever of us getting something onto the statute book by the end of this Assembly, whereas with my older people's Bill, there is. There's a lot of groundwork being done within Government, by the older people's commissioner and others on this agenda. We have the opportunity to get this through this Assembly by December 2020. That's the indication that I've had from the clerks supporting me with this Bill. Doing this does not preclude doing the other. There's still the opportunity to take a twin-track approach. We're always going to have unique arrangements for children and older people, by virtue of the fact that we have commissioners for those particular rights-based agendas. We don't for anything else in terms of human rights, but we do for children and older people. That's why I'm advocating this approach, and I very much hope that there will be some people on those Labour benches, on the Government benches, that will just think again before rejecting this proposal today.
Welsh: Rwyf eisoes wedi rhoi ymrwymiad i ymwneud â'r Llywodraeth ar yr agenda honno. Rwy'n aelod o'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar hawliau dynol. Rwy'n ymrwymedig i hawliau dynol, ac mae arnaf eisiau eu hyrwyddo yr holl ffordd. Credaf mai'r hyn sy'n fy mhryderu ynglŷn â dull y Llywodraeth yw ei fod yn ei ddyddiau cynnar iawn - mae'n embryonig. Nid oes unrhyw obaith o gwbl y cawn ni rywbeth ar y llyfr statud erbyn diwedd y Cynulliad hwn, ond gyda fy Mil pobl hŷn, mae hynny'n bosibl. Gwneir llawer o waith sylfaenol o fewn y Llywodraeth, gan y comisiynydd pobl hŷn ac eraill ar yr agenda hon. Mae gennym gyfle i lywio hyn drwy'r Cynulliad erbyn mis Rhagfyr 2020. Dyna'r awgrym a gefais gan y clercod sy'n fy nghynorthwyo gyda'r Bil hwn. Nid yw gwneud hyn yn atal gwneud y llall. Mae cyfle o hyd i weithredu ar ddau lwybr. Rydym bob amser yn mynd i gael trefniadau ar wahân ar gyfer plant a phobl hŷn, yn rhinwedd y ffaith bod gennym gomisiynwyr ar gyfer yr agendâu penodol hynny sy'n seiliedig ar hawliau. Nid yw hynny'n wir am unrhyw beth arall o ran hawliau dynol, ond maent yno ar gyfer plant a phobl hŷn. Dyna pam rwy'n argymell y dull hwn, ac rwy'n mawr obeithio y bydd rhai pobl ar y meinciau Llafur, ar feinciau'r Llywodraeth, yn meddwl eto cyn gwrthod y cynnig hwn heddiw.
English: Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [ Objection. ] Therefore, we defer voting under this item until voting time.
Welsh: Diolch. Y cynnig yw derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [ Gw rthwynebiad. ] Felly, rydym yn gohirio'r pleidleisio ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
English: Diolch. I'd like to first of all thank the campaigners, especially John Benson, who, despite years of fighting for their rights and basic fairness and justice, have not given up hope and have not caved in to Governments at Westminster that have either treated them with contempt or with basic ignorance and silence over the years. We don't want to bring this debate again to the Assembly. When I talked to somebody this morning, they said, 'Oh, that debate again. That issue again.' Well, the only reason we're bringing this debate here today is because things have not been rectified, things have not been sorted in relation to the Allied Steel workers' pensions.
Welsh: Diolch. Hoffwn yn gyntaf ddiolch i'r ymgyrchwyr, yn enwedig John Benson, sydd, er gwaethaf blynyddoedd o ymladd dros eu hawliau a thegwch a chyfiawnder sylfaenol, heb roi'r gorau i obeithio a heb ildio i Lywodraethau yn San Steffan sydd naill ai wedi eu trin â dirmyg neu ag anwybodaeth sylfaenol a distawrwydd dros y blynyddoedd. Nid ydym eisiau cyflwyno'r ddadl hon i'r Cynulliad eto. Pan siaredais â rhywun y bore yma, dywedodd, 'O, y ddadl honno eto. Y mater hwnnw eto.' Wel, yr unig reswm y cyflwynwn y ddadl hon yma heddiw yw oherwydd nad yw pethau wedi cael eu cywiro, nid ydynt wedi'u datrys mewn perthynas â phensiynau gweithwyr Allied Steel.
English: Thank you. I call on the Minister for Finance and the Trefnydd to speak to the debate - Rebecca Evans.
Welsh: Diolch. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Cyllid a'r Trefnydd i siarad yn y ddadl - Rebecca Evans.
English: I'm grateful to the Minister for taking an intervention. I might be reading this wrong, but I think this motion will pass with unanimous support this afternoon. I appreciate these votes don't tend to get whipped - these Members' debates don't - so if the vote does pass with unanimous approval - and the Government have indicated their support - will you commit as a Minister to raise this with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury in London when you next meet her, and, in particular, the Department of Work and Pensions, from a Government point of view? Because, as you're quite rightly identifying, extensive lobbying and a continuation of the campaign has borne fruit in the past, and we can't just let this debate be a 'noted' in the minutes of the Assembly.
Welsh: Diolch i'r Gweinidog am dderbyn ymyriad. Efallai nad wyf yn darllen hyn yn iawn, ond rwy'n credu y bydd y cynnig hwn yn pasio gyda chefnogaeth unfrydol y prynhawn yma. Rwy'n derbyn nad yw'r pleidleisiau hyn yn tueddu i fod yn ddarostyngedig i'r chwip - nid yw'r dadleuon Aelodau hyn - felly os yw'r bleidlais yn pasio gyda chymeradwyaeth unfrydol - ac mae'r Llywodraeth wedi dangos eu cefnogaeth - a wnewch chi ymrwymo fel Gweinidog i ddwyn y mater i sylw Prif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys yn Llundain y tro nesaf y byddwch yn ei chyfarfod, ac yn arbennig, yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau, o safbwynt y Llywodraeth? Oherwydd, fel y nodwch yn gwbl briodol, mae lobïo helaeth a pharhad yr ymgyrch wedi dwyn ffrwyth yn y gorffennol, ac ni allwn fodloni ar 'nodi' y ddadl hon yng nghofnodion y Cynulliad a dim mwy na hynny.
English: No, you're absolutely right, and you pre-empted my final paragraph of my speech this afternoon. But, before I do get to that point, I would like to recognise the cross-party support that there has been for this issue across the years, and recognise, for example, the letter that was signed by leaders of all four parties within the Assembly at the time in 2012, to mark what was 10 years after ASW went into administration. So, although the position for FAS members has improved from the early days of that scheme, it is still the case that for many people, including former ASW employees, significant shortcomings do remain in relation to the support that is provided. So, to close, on behalf of those affected, the Welsh Government does, once more, urge the UK Government to reconsider the concerns raised by financial assistance scheme members and their representatives to achieve a rightful and positive outcome. And I am pleased to give that commitment today that I will raise this matter directly with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury when we meet in early February, and I will certainly reflect all of the comments that we've had within this debate this afternoon.
Welsh: Na allwn, rydych yn llygad eich lle, ac rydych wedi achub y blaen ar baragraff olaf fy araith y prynhawn yma. Ond cyn imi ddod at y pwynt hwnnw, hoffwn gydnabod y gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol sydd wedi bod i'r mater hwn dros y blynyddoedd, a chydnabod, er enghraifft, y llythyr a lofnodwyd gan arweinwyr y pedair plaid yn y Cynulliad ar y pryd yn 2012, a nodi 10 mlynedd wedi i ASW fynd i ddwylo'r gweinyddwyr. Felly, er bod y sefyllfa wedi gwella i aelodau'r cynllun cymorth ariannol ers dyddiau cynnar y cynllun hwnnw, mae'n dal yn wir fod diffygion sylweddol yn parhau i lawer o bobl, gan gynnwys cyn-weithwyr ASW, o ran y cymorth a ddarperir. Felly, i gloi, ar ran y rhai yr effeithir arnynt, mae Llywodraeth Cymru unwaith eto'n annog Llywodraeth y DU i ailystyried y pryderon a godwyd gan aelodau'r cynllun cymorth ariannol a'u cynrychiolwyr er mwyn sicrhau canlyniad cadarnhaol a haeddiannol. Ac rwy'n falch o roi'r ymrwymiad hwnnw heddiw y byddaf yn dwyn y mater i sylw Prif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys yn uniongyrchol pan fyddwn yn cyfarfod yn gynnar ym mis Chwefror, ac yn sicr byddaf yn ystyried yr holl sylwadau a gawsom yn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma.
English: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. First of all, can I thank everybody for the positive way they've spoken in this debate? Normally when we have debates, some people will speak slightly off, even when they're in support, but there has been unanimity, and I think that is important. Can I also join with Bethan Sayed in congratulating the campaigners, especially John Benson, for keeping at it for so long? But can I urge Assembly colleagues - can you reply to John Benson's e-mails? He e-mails all of us fairly regularly. Not everybody replies. We're going to show support here - hopefully unanimously - but can you actually let him know that he's got that support unanimously by replying to the e-mails he sends?
Welsh: Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Yn gyntaf oll, hoffwn ddiolch i bawb am y modd cadarnhaol y maent wedi siarad yn y ddadl hon. Fel arfer pan gawn ddadleuon, bydd rhai pobl yn siarad ychydig fel arall, hyd yn oed pan fyddant yn cefnogi, ond cawsom unfrydedd, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwysig. A gaf fi ymuno â Bethan Sayed i longyfarch yr ymgyrchwyr, yn enwedig John Benson, am ddal ati cyhyd? Ond a gaf fi annog cyd-Aelodau'r Cynulliad - a wnewch chi ymateb i negeseuon e-bost John Benson? Mae'n anfon negeseuon e-bost at bob un ohonom yn weddol rheolaidd. Nid yw pawb yn ateb. Rydym yn mynd i ddangos cefnogaeth yma - yn unfrydol gobeithio - ond a allwch adael iddo wybod ei fod wedi cael y gefnogaeth unfrydol honno drwy ateb y negeseuon e-bost y mae'n eu hanfon?
English: Just to emphasise that point, I think it is actually important that we do have a vote here this afternoon. I will be asking for a vote, actually, rather than just saying blithely, 'It's going to be unanimous.' I think the people deserve that our names are going to be next to - and we register our support fully. So, I will ask for a vote, and, if necessary, that means we'll have to say, 'We object to it just going through, but we'll have the vote', because I want everybody registered saying, 'Yes, we support the pensioners 100 per cent.'
Welsh: Dim ond i bwysleisio'r pwynt hwnnw, credaf ei bod hi'n bwysig ein bod yn cael pleidlais yma y prynhawn yma. Byddaf yn gofyn am bleidlais, mewn gwirionedd, yn hytrach na dweud yn ddifeddwl, 'Mae'n mynd i fod yn unfrydol.' Credaf fod pobl yn haeddu gweld ein henwau wrth - a'n bod yn cofnodi ein cefnogaeth yn llawn. Felly, byddaf yn gofyn am bleidlais, ac os oes angen, bydd hynny'n golygu y bydd rhaid inni ddweud, 'Rydym yn gwrthwynebu iddo fynd drwodd heb bleidlais', oherwydd rwyf am weld pawb yn cael ei gofnodi'n dweud, 'Rydym yn cefnogi'r pensiynwyr 100 y cant.'
English: Item 7 is the Welsh Conservatives' debate on the Welsh rate of income tax, and I call on Nick Ramsay to move the motion - Nick Ramsay.
Welsh: Eitem 7 yw dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar gyfraddau treth incwm Cymru, a galwaf ar Nick Ramsay i wneud y cynnig - Nick Ramsay.
English: Firstly, I'm sure you'd join with me in paying credit to the work that Steffan Lewis did in terms of taxation during his time here. The point I was going to make, though, is, yes, we have compared to England, but if you exclude London and the south-east of England, all of a sudden, we're not that different. We know that, in terms of tax raised, the south-east of England and the south of England are the only two net payers in.
Welsh: Yn gyntaf, rwy'n siŵr y gwnewch chi ymuno â mi i ganmol y gwaith a wnaeth Steffan Lewis ar drethiant yn ystod ei amser yma. Y pwynt yr oeddwn yn mynd i'w wneud, fodd bynnag, yw ein bod wedi cymharu â Lloegr, ond o hepgor Llundain a de-ddwyrain Lloegr, yn sydyn iawn nid ydym mor wahanol â hynny. O ran y trethi a godir, gwyddom mai de-ddwyrain Lloegr a de Lloegr yw'r unig ddwy ardal sy'n talu mwy o dreth nag a gânt yn ôl.
English: Thank you. I have selected the two amendments to the motion, and I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to move amendments 1 and 2, tabled in his name. Rhun.
Welsh: Diolch. Rwyf wedi dethol y ddau welliant i'r cynnig, a galwaf ar Rhun ap Iorwerth i gynnig gwelliannau 1 a 2 a gyflwynwyd yn ei enw. Rhun.
English: If I can refer to the issue of raising taxes, which you mentioned. Raising taxes means to bring in taxes, of course, but all too often it's thought of as 'raising' - putting them up. Now, there are arguments for putting taxes up, and there are arguments, as we've heard from Nick Ramsay, on putting taxes down. What I want people to see in Wales in future, as we develop a tax system, is that people see that we are developing something that is fair. Now, we have limited tax powers currently. Over time, I hope and I'm confident that that will change. In a position where you have a whole host of tax and fiscal levers at your disposal, you can put some up and some down. It's about finding a balance and making sure that people can see that the effort being made here is to have a system that is fair in terms of what is brought in, that the weight of responsibility on who pays most is fair, and that we are able to make a fair contribution, because of that tax system, into how we spend money on the public services. This is the start of a journey, and I don't want to shackle this Government or any as we try to form that Welsh taxation system for the future.
Welsh: Os caf gyfeirio at fater codi trethi, a grybwyllwyd gennych. Golyga codi trethi ddod â threthi i mewn, wrth gwrs, ond yn rhy aml meddylir amdano fel 'codi' - eu gwneud yn uwch. Nawr, ceir dadleuon dros godi trethi, a cheir dadleuon, fel y clywsom gan Nick Ramsay, dros ostwng trethi. Yr hyn rwyf am i bobl ei weld yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol, wrth inni ddatblygu system dreth, yw bod pobl yn gweld ein bod yn datblygu rhywbeth sy'n deg. Nawr, mae gennym bwerau treth cyfyngedig ar hyn o bryd. Dros amser, rwy'n gobeithio, ac rwy'n hyderus y bydd hynny'n newid. Mewn sefyllfa lle y mae gennych lu o ysgogiadau treth ac ysgogiadau ariannol ar gael at eich defnydd, gallwch godi rhai a gostwng rhai eraill. Mae'n ymwneud â sicrhau cydbwysedd a gwneud yn siŵr fod pobl yn gallu gweld bod ymdrech yn cael ei gwneud i sicrhau system sy'n deg o ran yr hyn a ddaw i mewn, fod pwysau'r cyfrifoldeb ar y sawl sy'n talu fwyaf yn deg, a'n bod yn gallu gwneud cyfraniad teg, oherwydd y system dreth honno, i'r modd y gwariwn arian ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus. Dechrau'r daith yw hyn, ac nid wyf am gyfyngu'r Llywodraeth hon nac unrhyw Lywodraeth wrth inni geisio ffurfio'r system dreth Gymreig honno ar gyfer y dyfodol.
English: Can I say how much I'm looking forward to joining this debate? The transition and the growth the National Assembly from a body that, largely, simply administered the public sector when it was established in 1999 to a Parliament that governs our country is one that will test all of us in different ways. And the Conservatives are to be commended in starting that test this afternoon. I do not believe that the motion they've tabled meets the challenge of all the contributions we've heard this afternoon. I believe it is important that we do have a reasoned and a mature debate on taxation. We've just been through a budget round and we voted on the final budget of the Welsh Government, and what we heard on all sides of the Chamber, including my own side of the Chamber, were demands for additional spending. I can't think of a single contribution that was made, at any point in the debate on the budget, where any Member here asked for a reduction in expenditure. Everybody spent money with every speech and every utterance.
Welsh: A gaf fi ddweud cymaint rwy'n edrych ymlaen at ymuno â'r ddadl hon? Mae'r newid a'r twf yn y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol o gorff a oedd, i raddau helaeth, ond yn gweinyddu'r sector cyhoeddus pan y'i sefydlwyd yn 1999 i Senedd sy'n llywodraethu ein gwlad yn un a fydd yn profi pob un ohonom mewn gwahanol ffyrdd. Ac mae'r Ceidwadwyr i'w canmol am gychwyn y prawf hwnnw y prynhawn yma. Nid wyf yn credu bod y cynnig a gyflwynwyd ganddynt yn ateb her yr holl gyfraniadau a glywsom y prynhawn yma. Credaf ei bod hi'n bwysig inni gael dadl resymegol ac aeddfed ar drethiant. Rydym newydd fod drwy gylch cyllidebol ac wedi pleidleisio ar gyllideb derfynol Llywodraeth Cymru, a'r hyn a glywsom ar bob ochr i'r Siambr, gan gynnwys fy ochr fy hun i'r Siambr, oedd galwadau am wariant ychwanegol. Ni allaf feddwl am un cyfraniad a wnaed, ar unrhyw bwynt yn y ddadl ar y gyllideb, lle y gofynnodd unrhyw Aelod yma am ostyngiad mewn gwariant. Roedd pawb yn gwario arian gyda phob araith a phob ynganiad.
English: I was just thinking, perhaps your salary might be a good place to start.
Welsh: Roeddwn yn meddwl efallai y byddai eich cyflog yn lle da i ddechrau.
English: I'm grateful to the Member for giving way - I hunch my shoulders, but thank you. I wonder, might it be that we're saying to them that by having lower rates and perhaps encouraging more people to come and live and pay tax in Wales that there might be more revenue to support their services?
Welsh: Diolch i'r Aelod am ildio - rwy'n crymu fy ysgwyddau, ond diolch ichi. Tybed efallai ein bod yn dweud wrthynt, drwy gael cyfraddau is ac efallai annog mwy o bobl i ddod i fyw a thalu treth yng Nghymru, y gallai fod mwy o refeniw i gynnal eu gwasanaethau?
English: How can you prove that? It's very difficult, because you don't know what would have happened otherwise. And have you compared it with what's happened in tax transactions in the rest of Britain? [ Interruption.] No, the rest of Britain, which is different.
Welsh: Sut y gallwch brofi hynny? Mae'n anodd iawn, oherwydd nid ydych yn gwybod beth fyddai wedi digwydd fel arall. Ac rydych wedi ei gymharu â'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd mewn trafodiadau treth yng ngweddill Prydain? [ Torri ar draws.] Na, gweddill Prydain, sy'n wahanol.