English: Thank you to Bethan. She is right - I don't believe any political party can say that they have completely clean hands when it comes to the issue of student fees, and I would remind her of which parties were in Government in Wales in 2009 when the top-up fees were introduced. So, I think all of us have got parties where we've had to make some really difficult decisions, whether it be at Westminster or whether it be in Wales, about how we support the university sector and how we support students. But the Member is absolutely right to say that what we have been able to achieve in Wales via the Diamond review is a level of consensus that has not been seen to be available in other parts of the United Kingdom, and that's because, I think, all political parties had an opportunity to contribute to the Diamond review, to bring their ideas to the table and to work hard to develop that consensus. So, I think Diamond has provided that opportunity to take some of the hard politics out of these very complex decisions, and has allowed everybody to have a seat at the table and to help develop a consensus that I think has brought real, real dividends not just for the sector, but for individual students. On the part-time offer, I'm glad that Bethan has acknowledged this, because that ability to study in a different way and to recognise that a student isn't necessarily that traditional 18-year-old school leaver, is really, really, really important. I said in answer to Suzy Davies there's a tremendous impact and a tremendous rise in numbers that we've seen at the OU, but it's also important to recognise that our more traditional universities are also responding to this agenda, not just by offering part-time undergraduate degrees and part-time degrees, but we've seen a growing interest and a growing determination in the sector to offer micro-credentials to be able to support people who are looking for some qualifications and some accreditation that allows them to progress in their field of work or allows them to seek new work. I think that flexibility that is being shown in the sector is very, very welcome and recognises that they know that they have a huge part to play in COVID recovery in our nation going forward. Therefore, it is really important that our universities are in a position to respond positively and work with Welsh Government for that post-COVID recovery, and we've been able to do that by ensuring that we've been able to support our universities via the funding council in a way that we were not previously able to do so under the old system. We have seen a significant amount of money being able to go into HEFCW's budget to support universities, and we've responded positively as a Government during this crisis to be able to support them, going forward. On this issue of where young people in Wales choose to go to university, Bethan, I don't want choice to simply be available to those students who can afford it, and a differentiation approach I think is one where - . We've tried to do that in postgraduate where there is support above and beyond what you would get, but I really think it is for the individual to decide where they want to go to university. And I don't think we should necessarily see it as a completely bad thing if young people decide to, perhaps, spend a period of time studying anywhere else. I see this in my own family. There's nothing unpatriotic about a young person in Wales who decides that they want to go and study in a different country for a period of time. In fact, if I look around the Cabinet table, I think the vast majority of Ministers studied at universities elsewhere and have come back to make a contribution to Wales. So, I don't want choice and a differential finding system to be put in place, where those who can afford to go to different universities have that choice, and those that are only reliant on support from the Welsh Government have to go to universities that Welsh Government want them to go to. But that's the difference, I guess, between your perspective on life and my perspective, in that I really value that individual choice and that individual freedom to fulfil people's potential. But what I would say is that Welsh universities are tremendously successful in recruiting from other parts of the United Kingdom. We have a strong offer that is very, very, very attractive to individuals who live here in Wales and who choose to come and study in Wales. We've got something for everybody and a really, really strong reputation. Our universities score higher for student satisfaction than any other sector in the United Kingdom, and the quality of our research means that we outshine the system for our size - we punch above our weight in that regard. So, we have lots to recommend it, but I am not in the business of curtailing where individuals want to go to university by altering the system. FE does have a really, really important part to play. We need to make sure that FE and HE work in collaboration and do not compete. Bethan is quite right to talk about the marketisation of the approach and the damage sometimes that brings. I think, in Wales, we are too small for that. Our sector and our institutions have something very unique to offer their communities and our nation, and they need to work in partnership with FE. And that's why it's disappointing to me that we've not been able to move forward with our tertiary education reforms, which I believe would have let us create a planning environment that could have cut through some of that competition and some of that marketisation, and we could have had a very clear collaborative agenda between who does what in education in Wales - we play to our strengths and there is a clear path for individual students to move seamlessly between different levels at a time that is right for them.
Welsh: Diolch i Bethan. Mae hi'n iawn - nid wyf yn credu y gall unrhyw blaid wleidyddol ddweud bod ganddynt ddwylo hollol lân o ran ffioedd myfyrwyr, a hoffwn ei hatgoffa o ba bleidiau oedd mewn Llywodraeth yng Nghymru yn 2009 pan gyflwynwyd y ffioedd ychwanegol. Felly, rwy'n credu bod gan bob un ohonom ni bleidiau lle bu'n rhaid i ni wneud rhai penderfyniadau anodd iawn, boed hynny yn San Steffan neu yng Nghymru, ynglŷn â sut rydym yn cefnogi'r sector prifysgolion a sut rydym yn cefnogi myfyrwyr. Ond mae'r Aelod yn berffaith iawn i ddweud mai'r hyn yr ydym ni wedi gallu ei gyflawni yng Nghymru drwy adolygiad Diamond yw lefel o gonsensws nad ystyriwyd ei fod ar gael mewn rhannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig, a hynny oherwydd, rwy'n credu, cafodd pob plaid wleidyddol gyfle i gyfrannu at adolygiad Diamond, i ddod â'u syniadau ger bron ac i weithio'n galed i ddatblygu'r consensws hwnnw. Felly, credaf fod Diamond wedi rhoi'r cyfle hwnnw i dynnu rhywfaint o'r wleidyddiaeth galed allan o'r penderfyniadau cymhleth iawn hyn, ac wedi caniatáu i bawb fod yn rhan o'r drafodaeth ac i helpu i ddatblygu consensws sydd, yn fy marn i, wedi dod â budd gwirioneddol, nid yn unig i'r sector, ond i fyfyrwyr unigol. O ran y cynnig rhan-amser, rwy'n falch bod Bethan wedi cydnabod hyn, oherwydd mae'r gallu hwnnw i astudio mewn ffordd wahanol ac i gydnabod nad y disgybl traddodiadol hwnnw'n gadael ysgol yn 18 oed o reidrwydd yw myfyriwr, yn wirioneddol bwysig. Dywedais wrth ateb Suzy Davies fod effaith aruthrol a chynnydd aruthrol yn y niferoedd a welsom yn y Brifysgol Agored, ond mae hefyd yn bwysig cydnabod bod ein prifysgolion mwy traddodiadol hefyd yn ymateb i'r agenda hon, nid yn unig drwy gynnig graddau israddedig rhan-amser a graddau rhan-amser, ond rydym wedi gweld diddordeb cynyddol a phenderfyniad cynyddol yn y sector i gynnig micro-gymwysterau i allu cefnogi pobl sy'n chwilio am rai cymwysterau a rhai achrediadau sy'n eu galluogi i symud ymlaen yn eu maes gwaith neu'n caniatáu iddyn nhw chwilio am waith newydd. Credaf fod yr hyblygrwydd sy'n cael ei ddangos yn y sector i'w groesawu'n fawr ac yn cydnabod eu bod yn gwybod bod ganddyn nhw ran enfawr i'w chwarae yn adferiad COVID yn ein cenedl wrth symud ymlaen. Felly, mae'n bwysig iawn bod ein prifysgolion mewn sefyllfa i ymateb yn gadarnhaol a gweithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer yr adferiad ôl-COVID hwnnw, ac rydym wedi gallu gwneud hynny drwy sicrhau ein bod wedi gallu cefnogi ein prifysgolion drwy'r cyngor cyllido mewn ffordd nad oeddem yn gallu ei wneud o'r blaen o dan yr hen system. Rydym wedi gweld swm sylweddol o arian yn mynd i gyllideb CCAUC i gefnogi prifysgolion, ac rydym wedi ymateb yn gadarnhaol fel Llywodraeth yn ystod yr argyfwng hwn i'w cefnogi, wrth symud ymlaen. Ar y mater o ble mae pobl ifanc yng Nghymru yn dewis mynd i'r brifysgol, Bethan, nid wyf eisiau i'r dewis fod ar gael i'r myfyrwyr hynny sy'n gallu ei fforddio yn unig, a ffordd wahanol o fynd ati fyddai, yn fy marn i, un lle - . Rydym ni wedi ceisio gwneud hynny ym maes ôl-radd lle mae cefnogaeth y tu hwnt i'r hyn y byddech yn ei gael, ond rwy'n credu mewn gwirionedd mai mater i'r unigolyn yw penderfynu ble y mae eisiau mynd i'r brifysgol. Ac nid wyf yn credu y dylem o reidrwydd ei weld fel peth hollol wael os bydd pobl ifanc yn penderfynu treulio cyfnod o amser yn astudio yn rhywle arall, efallai. Rwy'n gweld hyn yn fy nheulu fy hun. Does dim byd anwlatgar ynghylch person ifanc yng Nghymru yn penderfynu ei fod eisiau mynd i astudio mewn gwlad wahanol am gyfnod o amser. Yn wir, os edrychaf o amgylch bwrdd y Cabinet, credaf fod y mwyafrif llethol o Weinidogion wedi astudio mewn prifysgolion mewn mannau eraill ac wedi dod yn ôl i wneud cyfraniad i Gymru. Felly, nid wyf eisiau gorfodi dewis a system ganfod wahaniaethol, lle mae gan y rhai sy'n gallu fforddio mynd i wahanol brifysgolion y dewis hwnnw, ac mae'n rhaid i'r rhai sy'n dibynnu ar gymorth gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn unig fynd i brifysgolion y mae Llywodraeth Cymru eisiau iddyn nhw fynd iddynt. Ond dyna'r gwahaniaeth, rwy'n dyfalu, rhwng eich persbectif chi ar fywyd a'm persbectif i, gan fy mod yn gwerthfawrogi'r dewis unigol hwnnw a'r rhyddid unigol hwnnw i gyflawni potensial pobl. Ond yr hyn y byddwn yn ei ddweud yw bod prifysgolion Cymru yn hynod lwyddiannus wrth recriwtio o rannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Mae gennym ni gynnig cryf sy'n ddeniadol iawn, iawn, iawn i unigolion sy'n byw yma yng Nghymru ac sy'n dewis dod i astudio yng Nghymru. Mae gennym ni rywbeth i bawb ac enw da iawn yn wir. Mae ein prifysgolion yn sgorio'n uwch o ran boddhad myfyrwyr nag unrhyw sector arall yn y Deyrnas Unedig, ac mae ansawdd ein hymchwil yn golygu ein bod yn rhagori ar y system o ran ein maint - rydym yn cyflawni y tu hwnt i bob disgwyl yn hynny o beth. Felly, mae gennym ni lawer i'w argymell, ond nid wyf eisiau cyfyngu ar le mae unigolion eisiau mynd i'r brifysgol drwy newid y system. Mae gan addysg bellach ran wirioneddol bwysig i'w chwarae. Mae angen i ni sicrhau bod addysg bellach ac addysg uwch yn cydweithio ac nad ydynt yn cystadlu. Mae Bethan yn llygad ei lle wrth ddweud fod prifysgolion ar drugaredd y farchnad a'r difrod a ddaw yn sgil hynny weithiau. Credaf, yng Nghymru, ein bod yn rhy fach i hynny. Mae gan ein sector a'n sefydliadau rywbeth unigryw iawn i'w gynnig i'w cymunedau a'n cenedl, ac mae angen iddynt weithio mewn partneriaeth ag addysg bellach. A dyna pam y mae'n siomedig i mi nad ydym wedi gallu symud ymlaen gyda'n diwygiadau addysg drydyddol, a fyddai, yn fy marn i, wedi caniatáu i ni greu amgylchedd cynllunio a allai fod wedi torri drwy rywfaint o'r gystadleuaeth honno a rhywfaint o'r marchnadeiddio hwnnw, a gallem fod wedi cael agenda gydweithredol glir iawn rhwng pwy sy'n gwneud beth mewn addysg yng Nghymru - rydym yn manteisio ar ein cryfderau ac mae llwybr clir i fyfyrwyr unigol symud yn ddi-dor rhwng gwahanol lefelau ar adeg sy'n iawn iddyn nhw.