techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: Thank you very much, Chair. And thank you for setting the stage, as it were. Perhaps slightly unexpectedly, I was going to focus on care services. Because, as you've mentioned, without adequate care services, the health service would be facing a huge problem, and often it would be too great a problem for the health service if care services were to unravel completely. So, remembering that context, would you agree that we need to change and transform our care services? We have confusion, for example, between what's being counted as personal care, which is charged for, and health care - nursing care - which is free of charge. There is that confusion and tribunals, and so on, have to solve that issue. Would it not be better to try to change the system, to change the system of care services? Because, with those care services, you are still at risk of losing your home, for example, to fund long-term care. If we were talking about the healthcare system in that context, and it was a long-term health condition, if you were expected to sell your home to fund care for that long-term healthcare condition, people would be battling in the streets at that unfairness, although we allow that unfairness with care services. So, how do you see the future of that?
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr, Gadeirydd. A diolch am osod y llwyfan, fel petai. Roeddwn i'n mynd i - efallai ychydig bach yn annisgwyl - ganolbwyntio ar wasanaethau gofal, a dweud y gwir. Achos fel rydych chi wedi ei grybwyll, heb wasanaethau gofal digonol, byddai'r gwasanaeth iechyd mewn cryn dipyn o broblem, ac yn aml buasai'n ormod o broblem, a dweud y gwir, i'r gwasanaeth iechyd pe bai gwasanaethau gofal yn gyfan gwbl ddadfeilio. Felly, o gofio'r cyd-destun yna, a fuasech chi'n cytuno bod angen newid yn ein gwasanaethau gofal ni? Hynny yw, mae gennym ni ddryswch, er enghraifft, rhwng beth sy'n cael ei gyfrif fel gofal personol, sydd yn codi tâl, a gofal iechyd - gofal nyrsio - sydd am ddim. Mae wastad dryswch yn fanna ac mae tribiwnlysoedd a phob mathau o bethau yn gorfod datrys hynny. Oni fuasai hi'n well trio newid y sefyllfa, newid sefyllfa gwasanaethau gofal? Achos, yn dal efo gwasanaethau gofal, rydych chi'n dal mewn risg o golli'ch tŷ, er enghraifft, er mwyn ariannu gofal hirdymor. Pe baem ni'n sôn am y gwasanaeth iechyd yn y cyd-destun yna, a bod yna ryw gyflwr hirdymor iechyd gyda chi, pe baem ni'n disgwyl i chi werthu'ch tŷ er mwyn sicrhau gofal hirdymor iechyd, byddai pobl yn brwydro yn y strydoedd am yr annhegwch yna, er ein bod ni'n caniatáu yr annhegwch yna efo gwasanaethau gofal. Sut ydych chi'n gweld y dyfodol, felly?
English: Well, of course, we will soon ensure that people will be able to keep £50,000 of their own money, which is far higher than now. In the longer term, well, for me, I think we do have to consider the taxation system, where people would perhaps pay into a fund over a period of years - something similar to national insurance now. If they pay into that fund, up to a particular level, then they would receive free care. It would be most important that people do pay in to that fund, because we can't have a situation where people move into Wales once they've retired and then access free care without having paid in. And we would have to also ensure that those who are unable to pay into the fund would also be able to access the same services too. And we would also have to ensure that it's mandatory, because when you're in your 20s, you don't necessarily think about social care. Now, for me, that's something we need to consider as a means of ensuring that everyone has the same level of access to the service. There will be some people who will never need it; there will be some who will need care at an early age, but that's how the health service works now. People get out of it what they need, and everyone pays the same level in, in terms of national insurance. Now, in the long term, for me, that's the way to resolve that problem.
Welsh: Wel, wrth gwrs, rydym ni wedi sicrhau - wel, fe fyddwn ni yn sicrhau cyn bo hir - fod pobl yn gallu cadw £50,000 o'u harian, sydd lawer yn uwch na'r sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd. Yn yr hirdymor, i fi, mae'n rhaid i ni ystyried y system o drethi, lle mae pobl yn talu mewn i gronfa dros y blynyddoedd, ac, wedi hynny, unwaith maen nhw wedi - rhywbeth fel yswiriant gwladol ar hyn o bryd. Os ydynt yn talu i mewn i'r gronfa honno hyd at lefel fwriadol, neu lefel sydd yn berthnasol, felly wrth gwrs byddan nhw'n cael gofal am ddim. Byddai'n hollbwysig bod pobl yn talu mewn i'r gronfa, o achos y ffaith na allwn gael sefyllfa lle mae pobl yn symud mewn i Gymru unwaith eu bod wedi ymddeol ac wedyn yn cael gofal am ddim. A hefyd byddai'n rhaid ffeindio ffordd o sicrhau bod y rheini sy'n ffaelu rhoi arian mewn i'r gronfa yn cael yr un fath o wasanaeth hefyd. A byddai'n rhaid ei fod e'n orfodol, achos pan rydych chi yn eich 20au, nid ydych chi yn meddwl lot am ofal cymdeithasol, yn y pen draw. I fi, mae hynny'n rhywbeth y mae'n rhaid i ni ei ystyried fel ffordd o sicrhau bod pawb yn cael yr un lefel o fynediad mewn i'r gwasanaeth. Bydd rhai pobl byth yn gorfod ei gael e; bydd rhai pobl yn gorfod cael gofal pan maen nhw, efallai, yn ifanc iawn, ond y pwynt yw, dyna sut mae'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn gweithio ta beth. Mae pobl yn cael mas ohono fe beth sydd ei eisiau arnyn nhw, ac mae pawb yn talu yr un lefel i mewn, ynglŷn ag yswiriant gwladol. Felly, yn yr hirdymor, dyna'r ffordd, i fi, i ddatrys y broblem.
English: Thank you for that. But I would tend to disagree a little because I would like to see a taxation system like the one that funds the health service. I don't see why we have to fund care services in a different way - that is, for it to come from general taxation as does the funding for the health service. So, with a levy, you'd still be at risk of losing your home - it wouldn't cover everything in terms of general insurance, from the details that I've seen about this. So, why treat care differently from health? We always go on about the fact that there's an apparent difference of esteem for those who work in the care system and those who work for the health system. And there are different reasons for that: the fact that you have to pay for the care system and that it's under the auspices of local government and, of course, pay and conditions are far better - pensions and so on are better - in the health system. But, if you could tailor things like that, you would have a national care system as well as a national health system. Would you not agree with that?
Welsh: Diolch am hynny. Ond hefyd, mi fuaswn i'n tueddu i anghytuno ychydig bach - mi fuaswn i'n licio gweld sefyllfa drethiannol fel sydd yn ariannu'r gwasanaeth iechyd. Nid wyf yn gweld pam bod yn rhaid i ni ariannu gwasanaethau gofal mewn ffordd wahanol - hynny yw, dod allan o drethiant cyffredinol, fel y mae'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn ei wneud, a dweud y gwir. Achos gyda system o lefi, fe fyddech chi'n dal â'r risg o golli'ch tŷ - ni fyddai'n cyfro popeth yn nhermau yswiriant cyffredinol, o'r manylion rydw i wedi'u darllen am y peth. Pam trin gofal yn wahanol i iechyd? Rydym ni wastad yn mynd ymlaen ynglŷn â bod yna ddiffyg - bod yna wahaniaeth parch o ran y sawl sy'n gweithio yn y sector gofal a'r sawl sy'n gweithio i'r sector iechyd. Ac mae yna wahanol resymau am hynny: y ffaith bod yn rhaid i chi dalu am wasanaeth gofal a'r ffaith ei fod o dan adain llywodraeth leol ac, wrth gwrs, mae amodau a chyflogau yn lawer uwch a gwell - pensiynau ac ati yn well - yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Ond pe buasech chi deilwra pethau fel yna, buasech chi'n cael gwasanaeth gofal cenedlaethol yn ogystal â gwasanaeth iechyd cenedlaethol. A fuasech chi'n cytuno?
English: That's how the general taxation system would ensure that. I'm not going to continue with this discussion, because I know that time and the Chair's patience are against me there.
Welsh: Dyna sut y buasai system o drethiant cyffredinol yn sicrhau hwnnw, ond nid wyf yn mynd i barhau â'r drafodaeth. Rwy'n ymwybodol o amser ac amynedd y Cadeirydd, felly, gwnaf i aros yn fanna.
English: You mention here the Government's opinion about wanting to see justice being devolved, and, clearly, I would support that. But, you have said on a number of occasions that you're not in favour of devolving broadcasting to Wales. I wonder, now that you're on the way out, whether your opinion has changed, particularly in light of the fact that a new Minister at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, who's responsible for S4C, hasn't even watched S4C; the fact that DCMS has decreased the local requirements for commercial radio; the fact that the BBC on its network continues not to be able to represent Wales to the full extent, and that the media here in Wales are very weak in terms of a number of requirements - newspapers are closing, for example, and there's no way of ensuring that issues in our towns and communities are represented effectively here in Wales. And, in looking at all of these in the round, isn't it the logical, simple conclusion that we should have the powers over broadcasting being devolved, so that we can make then a difference to these systems, rather than we give those powers to a Government that does not have the interests of Wales at its heart?
Welsh: Rydych chi'n sôn fan hyn nawr ynglŷn â barn y Llywodraeth ynglŷn ag eisiau gweld cyfiawnder yn cael ei ddatganoli, ac, yn amlwg, byddwn i'n cefnogi hynny. Ond, rydych chi wedi dweud ar nifer o adegau nad ydych chi o blaid datganoli darlledu i Gymru. Tybed, nawr eich bod chi ar y ffordd mas, a yw eich barn wedi newid, yn enwedig yn sgil y ffaith bod, er enghraifft, Gweinidog newydd yr Adran dros Ddiwylliant, y Cyfryngau a Chwaraeon sydd yn gyfrifol am S4C ddim hyd yn oed wedi gwylio S4C; y ffaith bod DCMS wedi lleihau goblygiadau lleol ar radio masnachol; yn sgil y ffaith bod y BBC ar ei rwydwaith yn parhau i beidio â gallu cynrychioli Cymru i'w lawn effaith; a bod y cyfryngau yma yng Nghymru yn wan iawn, yn sgil nifer o ddatblygiadau - bod papurau newydd yn cau, a bod dim ffordd wedyn o sicrhau bod materion yn ein trefi ni yn cael eu cynrychioli yn effeithlon yma yng Nghymru? O edrych ar y pethau yma, onid yw hi'n syml, felly, ein bod ni, wrth gael y pwerau drwy ddatganoli darlledu, yn gallu gwneud gwahaniaeth i'r systemau yma, yn hytrach na'n bod ni'n rhoi'r pwerau i Lywodraeth nad ydynt â diddordeb mewn Cymru wrth wraidd yr hyn y maen nhw'n ei wneud?
English: I've yet to be persuaded on the devolution of broadcasting. I don't quite know whether the benefits are more than the costs. S4C, for example, costs a great deal of money. If the BBC were devolved in any way, then we would be reliant on the licence fees raised only in Wales. What would the impact of that be? It's true to say that we would have more control over broadcasting, but is it right on a practical level, where there are now so many channels? We would have no control over Sky, for example, we would have no control over other channels; we would have no control over the radio channels that people listen to. One of the problems that we have, and it's true that people -
Welsh: Nid wyf i wedi cael fy mherswadio ynglŷn â datganoli darlledu. Nid wyf fi'n gweld - a ydy'r manteision yn fwy na'r gost, er enghraifft? Mae S4C yn costio llawer o arian. Petasai'r BBC yn cael ei ddatganoli mewn rhyw ffordd, wel, wrth gwrs, byddem ni wedyn yn dibynnu ar drwyddedau sydd yn cael eu gwerthu ddim ond yng Nghymru. Beth fyddai'r effaith wedi hynny? Mae'n wir i ddweud, wrth gwrs, y byddai mwy o reolaeth gyda ni dros ddarlledu, ond a ydy hwnna yn iawn yn ymarferol, lle mae sut gymaint o sianeli nawr? Ni fyddai unrhyw fath o reolaeth gyda ni ynglŷn â Sky, er enghraifft, ynglŷn â sianeli eraill; ni fyddai rheolaeth gyda ni ar y sianeli radio, er enghraifft, y mae pobl yn gwrando arnyn nhw. Un o'r problemau sydd gyda ni - ac mae'n wir i ddweud bod pobl -
English: Well, regulation could do that. If we had powers over regulation -
Welsh: Ond mae rheoleiddio yn gallu gwneud hynny. Os byddwn ni'n cael pwerau dros reoleiddio -
English: But you can't stop people watching certain channels - that's the problem. If we look at radio, for example, the most popular radio station in Wales is Radio 2. Now, it's true to say that we have a problem in terms of ensuring that people are aware of what's happening within our nation. But the devolution of broadcasting doesn't mean that people would stop listening to Radio 2 - they're going to continue to do that. So, I can see people saying, 'Okay, we'll get control over it', but I don't think that it's an answer to the problem of ensuring that people are aware of what's happening within their own country. We don't have a strong press in Wales - we're not like Scotland in that regard. The broadcasting systems in Scotland are the same as they are in Wales; the difference is what happens with the press in Scotland, because broadcasting is virtually the same. So, I know that some people do say that this would resolve certain problems, but I've yet to be convinced. If people can make the choice, in terms of what they listen to or view, then that doesn't solve the problem. People might watch Sky - Sky doesn't cover Welsh news a great deal; you still have the same problem. People still read the Fleet Street newspapers, then the problem is still there. People listen to radio stations from England; the problem remains. So, it's not an easily resolved problem, but I don't think that the devolution of broadcasting, necessarily, is the solution.
Welsh: Ond rydych chi'n ffaelu stopio pobl rhag gwylio sianeli - dyna'r broblem. Os edrychwn ni, er enghraifft, ar y radio, y stesion radio mwyaf poblogaidd yng Nghymru yw Radio 2. Nawr, mae'n wir i ddweud bod yna broblem gyda ni ynglŷn â sicrhau bod pobl yn gwybod beth sy'n digwydd yn ein gwlad - mae hwnna'n wir. Ond nid yw datganoli darlledu yn meddwl y byddai pobl yn stopio gwrando ar Radio 2 - maen nhw'n mynd i ddal i wneud hynny. So, gallaf i weld bod pobl yn dweud, 'Ocê, fe gawn ni reolaeth drosto fe', ond nid wyf i'n credu ei fod e'n ateb i'r broblem o sicrhau bod pobl yn gwybod beth sy'n digwydd yn eu gwlad nhw. Nid oes gwasg gref gyda ni yng Nghymru - nid yw fel yn yr Alban. Mae'r system ddarlledu yn yr Alban yr un peth â'r system ddarlledu yng Nghymru; y gwahaniaeth yw beth sy'n digwydd gyda'r wasg. Mae'r system ddarlledu bron yr un peth. So, rwy'n gwybod bod pobl yn dweud y byddai hwn yn datrys rhai problemau - nid ydw i'n ei weld e ar hyn o bryd. Os yw pobl yn gallu gwneud y dewis, a dewis sianeli eraill, nid yw hynny yn datrys y broblem lle mae pobl, efallai, yn gwylio Sky - nid yw Sky yn gwneud lot gyda newyddion o Gymru; mae'r broblem yn dal i fod yna. Mae pobl yn dal i ddarllen papurau Fleet Street; mae'r broblem yn dal i fod yna. Mae pobl yn dal i wrando ar sianeli radio o Loegr; mae'r broblem yn dal i fod yna. So, nid yw e'n rhywbeth rhwydd i'w ddatrys, ond nid wyf i'n credu bod datganoli darlledu yn rhoi ateb inni ynglŷn â hwnna.
English: But do you believe that giving more Government support to businesses or companies that want to establish an indigenous press in Wales is something that the Government could assist with? We're still waiting to see where the funding agreed in the budget is going for hyperlocals here in Wales. That's a small amount of funding, but it is a start. But do you see that there's room for Government to assist the situation, where there isn't enough happening in terms of promoting that indigenous news from Wales?
Welsh: Ond a ydych chi'n credu y byddai rhoi mwy o gefnogaeth lywodraethol i fusnesau neu gwmnïau sydd eisiau sefydlu gwasg gynhenid o Gymru yn rhywbeth y byddai'r Llywodraeth yn gallu helpu ag ef? Rydym ni dal yn aros i gael gweld ble mae'r arian a gytunwyd yn y gyllideb yn mynd, er enghraifft, ar gyfer hyperlocals yma yng Nghymru. Mae hwnna'n arian bach, ond mae'n ddechreuad. Ond a ydych chi'n gweld bod yna le i Lywodraeth i ddod mewn i helpu sefyllfa lle nad oes yna ddigon yn digwydd o ran cyfleu newyddion cynhenid o Gymru?
English: Yes, I think so, but that's different to the devolution of broadcasting. And one of the things that we need to ensure that doesn't happen is that people take money from Government, and then believe that they can't then criticise Government. You have to ensure that you have that independence in terms of the editorial line. But I think it is possible to provide assistance, in order to ensure that we do have strong media in Wales. We all see the pressures on the press at the moment - everyone is suffering, as compared to where they were, say, 20 years ago. But, in my mind, there is a role for the Welsh Government in ensuring that there is support available to ensure that we do have strong Welsh press and media ultimately. Because there are two things that happen if that isn't the case: people don't know what's going on in their own nation, and they don't know what their Government is doing, and that's a democratic issue - a problem of democracy, in fact. So, for me, there is more work to be done in terms of ensuring that there is help available, in order to ensure that people are aware of what's happening not only in their own areas, but across Wales too.
Welsh: Oes, rwy'n credu ei fod e. Mae hwnna'n wahanol, wrth gwrs, i ddatganoli darlledu. Ac un o'r pethau y byddai'n rhaid sicrhau nad oedd yn digwydd oedd bod pobl yn cymryd arian o'r Llywodraeth, ac wedi hynny yn meddwl eu bod nhw'n ffaelu beirniadu'r Llywodraeth. Byddai'n rhaid cael yr annibyniaeth yna ynglŷn â phwy sy'n delio â'r lein olygyddol. Ond na, rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bosib creu help yn y pen draw i sicrhau bod gyda ni gyfryngau yng Nghymru sydd yn gryf. Rydym ni i gyd yn gweld y pwysau sydd ar y wasg ar hyn o bryd - mae pawb yn dioddef, o'i gymharu â ble roedden nhw efallai 20 mlynedd yn ôl. Ond mae yna rôl, i fi, i Lywodraeth Cymru sicrhau bod yna gefnogaeth ar gael i sicrhau bod yna gyfryngau Cymreig cryf gyda ni yn y pen draw. Petasai hynny ddim yn digwydd, byddai dau beth yn digwydd: ni fyddai pobl yn gwybod beth sy'n digwydd yn eu gwlad eu hunain, ac ni fyddai pobl yn gwybod beth mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei wneud, ac mae honno'n broblem i ddemocratiaeth. Felly, i fi, mae yna fwy o waith i'w wneud ynglŷn â sicrhau bod help ar gael, er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl yn gwybod beth sy'n digwydd nid dim ond yn eu bro eu hunain, ond hefyd ar draws Cymru.
English: Thank you very much. When you were made Minister for agriculture, back in 2003, one of the first jobs that you had to do was to prepare for radical changes to the common agricultural policy, which were introduced in 2005. And what you did was to develop Welsh answers and solutions, and a focus on what we now call the 'active farmer', when England was introducing policies that were open to everyone. And when the next significant changes came, in 2015, to CAP, you were First Minister and, again, Wales ploughed its own, unique furrow, as opposed to England, placing a cap on payments, and so on. But this year, the proposals that you have put forward as a Government in 'Brexit and our land' are to all intents and purposes a carbon copy of what's going to happen in England. And looking at the proposed legislation - the United Kingdom Environment Bill - Schedule 3 to that Bill, as the element that deals with Wales, is a cut and paste of the element that deals with England. So, what's happened in that period, in that we find ourselves having gone from developing Welsh solutions with a focus on what we need here in Wales to be dancing to the tune of Michael Gove?
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr. Pan gawsoch chi'ch gwneud yn Weinidog amaeth, nôl yn 2003, un o'r jobs cyntaf a oedd gyda chi, wrth gwrs, oedd paratoi ar gyfer newidiadau radical i'r polisi amaethyddol cyffredin, a gyflwynwyd yn 2005. A'r hyn a wnaethoch chi oedd datblygu atebion Cymreig - ffocws ar beth rydym ni nawr yn ei alw yn ' active farmer', pan oedd Lloegr yn cyflwyno polisïau a oedd yn agored i bawb. Pan ddaeth y newidiadau sylweddol nesaf, yn 2015, i CAP, roeddech chi'n Brif Weinidog, wrth gwrs ac, eto, Cymru yn torri cwys unigryw, Gymreig, yn wahanol i Loegr, yn gosod cap ar daliadau, ac agweddau felly. Ond eleni, wrth gwrs, mae'r cynigion rydych chi wedi eu rhoi ymlaen fel Llywodraeth yn 'Brexit a'n tir' i bob pwrpas yn carbon copy o'r hyn sydd yn mynd i ddigwydd yn Lloegr. Ac, o edrych ar y ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig - Bil yr Amgylchedd y Deyrnas Unedig - mae Schedule 3 yn hwnnw, yr elfen sy'n delio â Chymru, yn cut and paste i bob pwrpas o'r elfen sy'n delio â Lloegr. Felly, beth sydd wedi digwydd yn y cyfnod yna, i ni ffeindio ein hunain o fod wedi mynd o fod yn datblygu atebion Cymreig a ffocws ar yr hyn sydd ei angen yng Nghymru i fod yn dawnsio i diwn Michael Gove?
English: Well, we certainly won't be doing that - I can tell you that now. I was Minister in 2000, and I recall that date because foot and mouth disease came not long after that. What we want to do is to secure the future of farming in Wales. That is the objective. We have been consulting, and I know that certain things have been contentious. We want to listen in order to ensure that we have a Welsh policy, ultimately. That's not going to change. We're not simply going to copy what England is doing; England is entirely different in terms of its agriculture. So, discussion has been taking place. We will listen, and then we will decide how we can best support farmers. So, the question is not yet closed and resolved; I want to see what the responses are and how we can then move forward.
Welsh: Wel, wnawn ni ddim mo hynny - fe allaf fi ddweud hynny nawr. Yn 2000, roeddwn i'n Weinidog - rwy'n cofio hynny, wrth gwrs, achos fe ddaeth clwy'r traed a'r genau ddim yn hir ar ôl hynny. Beth rydym ni'n moyn ei wneud yw sicrhau dyfodol ffermio yng Nghymru. Dyna beth yw'r nod. Rydym ni wedi bod yn ymgynghori, ac rwy'n gwybod bod rhai o'r pethau wedi bod yn ddadleuol. Rydym ni'n moyn gwrando er mwyn sicrhau bod gyda ni bolisi Cymreig yn y pen draw. Nid yw hynny'n mynd i newid. Nid ydym ni jest yn mynd i gopïo beth mae Lloegr yn ei wneud; mae Lloegr yn hollol wahanol o ran eu hamaethyddiaeth nhw. So, mae trafodaeth wedi bod yn cymryd lle. Rydym ni'n mynd i wrando ac i weld wedi hynny ym mha ffordd y gallwn ni gefnogi ffermwyr. So, nid yw'r cwestiwn eto ar gau; rydw i'n moyn gweld beth yw'r ymateb, a gweld wedi hynny ym mha ffordd y gallwn ni symud ymlaen.
English: But can you tell me, then, what is different in the 'Brexit and our land' proposals as opposed to what England is doing? You say that you want to do something differently. I can't see a difference.
Welsh: Ond a allwch chi ddweud wrthyf fi, te, beth sydd yn wahanol yn y cynigion sydd yn 'Brexit a'n tir', o'i gymharu â'r hyn y mae Lloegr yn ei gynnig? Rydych chi'n dweud eich bod chi eisiau gwneud rhywbeth yn wahanol. Allaf i ddim gweld gwahaniaeth.