English: Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, and I move amendment 13 and ask that Members bear with me on this. I appreciate it's getting late. Again, this group contains amendments that arise from issues of conscience, and Welsh Conservatives will have a free vote on those. However, we agree with the assertion that, should the Government view prevail, and that voluntary aided schools still find themselves in the position of having to provide two syllabuses if requested, then the cost of that extra work must be met by the state. Otherwise, you are discriminating against certain maintained schools as compared to others, but I'll let Darren Millar speak more fully to those amendments. Moving on to amendments 13, 14 and 15, could I begin by thanking the Minister once again for her close consideration of arguments made before Stage 2, and her introduction then of amendments that meant that all maintained schools, whether of a religious character or not, have the same relationship with the agreed RVE syllabus, namely that they all have to have regard to that syllabus? Originally, the cutting and pasting of existing words from other legislation had imposed a greater degree of observance of the agreed syllabus on voluntary aided schools than others, and that was discriminatory. My next concern, which hasn't been allayed, however, was that discrimination against those schools continued by imposing upon them a duty to provide two syllabuses if requested. Now that voluntary aided schools have to have regard to the agreed syllabus when deciding on their inevitably more denominational syllabus, that's been a step towards avoiding a situation where a request for a separate syllabus might be made, and I have accepted the oft-made argument by Catholic schools in particular that they've never had a problem providing a broad and balanced RE syllabus despite the religious character of their school, and have every confidence that they'll still be able to do that, because the agreed syllabus to which they must have regard, under the Minister's previous amendments, will have been agreed locally by a group of people still dominated by those of theocratic belief and principle. And the fact that there are other people in the world with strong non-theocratic beliefs should come as no surprise to pupils these days, and they should know about them. Can I just say at this point that I was assured in the Stage 2 debate that we were talking about people actively holding to a creed, if you like, rather than the passively disinterested areligious population at large?
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, ac rwy'n cynnig gwelliant 13 ac yn gofyn i'r Aelodau fod yn amyneddgar â mi ar hyn. Rwy'n gwerthfawrogi ei bod hi'n mynd yn hwyr. Unwaith eto, mae'r grŵp hwn yn cynnwys gwelliannau sy'n codi o faterion cydwybod, a bydd gan y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig bleidlais rydd ar y rheini. Fodd bynnag, rydym ni'n cytuno â'r honiad, pe byddai safbwynt y Llywodraeth yn cario'r dydd, a bod ysgolion gwirfoddol a gynorthwyir yn dal i ganfod eu hunain yn y sefyllfa o orfod darparu dau faes llafur os gofynnir iddyn nhw wneud hynny, yna mae'n rhaid i'r wladwriaeth dalu cost y gwaith ychwanegol hwnnw. Fel arall, rydych chi'n gwahaniaethu yn erbyn rhai ysgolion a gynhelir o'u cymharu ag eraill, ond byddaf i'n gadael i Darren Millar siarad yn fwy manwl ynghylch y gwelliannau hynny. Gan symud ymlaen at welliannau 13, 14 a 15, a gaf i ddechrau drwy ddiolch i'r Gweinidog unwaith eto am ei hystyriaeth fanwl o ddadleuon a gafodd eu gwneud cyn Cyfnod 2, ac am iddi gyflwyno wedyn welliannau a olygai fod gan bob ysgol a gynhelir, boed hynny o fath crefyddol ai peidio, yr un berthynas â'r maes llafur crefydd, gwerthoedd a moeseg y cytunwyd arno, sef bod yn rhaid iddyn nhw i gyd roi sylw i'r maes llafur hwnnw? Yn wreiddiol, roedd torri a gludo geiriau presennol o ddeddfwriaeth arall wedi gosod mwy o orfodaeth i ufuddhau i'r maes llafur cytunedig ar ysgolion gwirfoddol a gynorthwyir nag ar eraill, ac roedd hynny'n gwahaniaethu. Fy mhryder nesaf, nad yw wedi'i leddfu, fodd bynnag, oedd bod gwahaniaethu yn erbyn yr ysgolion hynny yn parhau drwy osod dyletswydd arnyn nhw i ddarparu dau faes llafur os gofynnid am hynny. Gan fod yn rhaid i ysgolion gwirfoddol a gynorthwyir roi sylw i'r maes llafur cytunedig wrth benderfynu ar eu maes llafur sy'n anochel yn fwy enwadol, mae hynny wedi bod yn gam tuag at osgoi sefyllfa lle y gallai cais am faes llafur ar wahân gael ei wneud, ac rwyf i wedi derbyn y ddadl sydd yn aml yn cael ei gwneud gan ysgolion Catholig yn arbennig nad ydyn nhw erioed wedi cael problem o ran darparu maes llafur addysg grefyddol eang a chytbwys er gwaethaf cymeriad crefyddol eu hysgol, ac maen nhw'n ffyddiog y byddan nhw'n dal i allu gwneud hynny, oherwydd bydd y maes llafur cytunedig y mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw roi sylw iddo, o dan ddiwygiadau blaenorol y Gweinidog, wedi'i gytuno yn lleol gan grŵp o bobl sy'n dal i gael eu dominyddu gan y rhai â chred ac egwyddor dduwlywodraethol. Ac ni ddylai'r ffaith bod pobl eraill yn y byd sydd â chredoau cryf yn peri unrhyw syndod i ddisgyblion y dyddiau hyn, a dylen nhw wybod amdanyn nhw. A gaf i ddweud ar y pwynt hwn fy mod i wedi cael sicrwydd yn y ddadl Cyfnod 2 ein bod ni'n sôn am bobl yn ymarferol yn cadw at gredo, os mynnwch chi, yn hytrach na'r boblogaeth anghrefyddol ddifater oddefol sydd ohoni?