English: Thank you very much, and thanks to everybody who has contributed to this debate. I think it was Llyr Gruffydd who tried to move us away from this specific issue in question, and thank you for doing that. There are broader issues, of course, than the ones that we have been discussing today, and it is possible to use the planning system in an effective way in order to create a better balance within our communities, and to allow communities to work against a situation where there are too many second homes pushing local people out because the prices are going through the roof. You only need to look at some of the communities in Gwynedd and Anglesey to see the reality of that situation, and there are other countries - Switzerland, Denmark, Northern Ireland as well, and then Guernsey and London - where there are rules within the planning system that can be used to tackle the broader problem. And I am looking forward to seeing the fruit of the labours by Gwynedd Council into this situation. In terms of the specific issue that we've been discussing today, I do thank two contributors for their ideas. I'm very happy to be discussing other solutions, different to the one that we've proposed here today - removing business rates relief from second homes, and, yes, that's one way ahead, or using HMRC rules. I'm very open to that, but I'm not the Minister. The Minister needs to take this issue seriously, and, unfortunately, I do feel this afternoon that we haven't been convinced at all that there is an understanding of the complexity of the situation, and an understanding of what exactly is going on, and an understanding of this specific loophole that exists in the system. I'm very disappointed about that. I was hoping that today we would be able to have at least some kind of indication that there was a solution that was going to be found. The only chink of light that I could see is that there was a description there somewhere of artificial avoidance. Now, to me, that's a loophole, that's another term for 'loophole' - that's what artificial avoidance is. I greatly hope that this issue does get some attention from the Government. The trick that Rhun ap Iorwerth referred to - the premium itself is what has caused this, to a certain extent. Yes, people are trying to find a way of not having to pay the premium and then looking for tricks in order to avoid paying any tax at all. The former First Minister talked about a radio advertisement that he heard about a company that was trying to provide advice to second-home owners about how to avoid paying council tax. It's terrible when we reach a situation of that kind, because the funding or the money that's lost from the system is very valuable funds for the local authorities, which could be used to create affordable homes, social housing, homes that are needed within our communities. So, I do greatly hope that there will be a rethink on this and that there will be some serious consideration of how we resolve this problem. What we got from the Minister, unfortunately, was a description of the council tax collection framework and a description of what's happening, and I have no confidence this afternoon that the Government is going to try and tackle this, despite the contributions of everyone in this room today.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn, a diolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl. Dwi'n meddwl mai Llyr Gruffydd sydd wedi ceisio symud i ffwrdd o'r mater penodol dan sylw, a diolch am wneud hynny. Mae yna faterion mwy eang, wrth gwrs, na'r rhai rydyn ni wedi bod yn eu trafod heddiw, ac mae modd defnyddio'r system gynllunio mewn ffordd effeithiol er mwyn creu gwell cydbwysedd o fewn ein cymunedau ni, ac i alluogi cymunedau i weithio yn erbyn sefyllfa lle mae yna ormodedd o ail gartrefi yn gwthio pobl leol allan oherwydd bod y prisiau yn mynd drwy'r to. Does ond rhaid ichi edrych ar rai cymunedau yng Ngwynedd ac Ynys Môn i weld realiti'r sefyllfa yna, ac mae yna wledydd eraill - y Swistir, Denmarc, Gogledd Iwerddon hefyd, ac wedyn Guernsey a Llundain - mae yna reolau o fewn y system gynllunio y gellid eu defnyddio i fynd i'r afael â'r broblem ehangach, a dwi yn edrych ymlaen at weld ffrwyth gwaith ymchwil Cyngor Gwynedd i mewn i'r sefyllfa yna. O ran y mater penodol rydyn ni wedi bod yn ei drafod heddiw, dwi'n diolch i ddau gyfrannwr am eu syniadau nhw. Dwi'n hapus iawn, wrth gwrs, i fod yn trafod datrysiadau eraill, yn wahanol i'r un rydyn ni wedi'i gynnig yn fan hyn - tynnu rhyddhad trethi busnes oddi ar ail gartrefi, ac mae hwnna'n un ffordd ymlaen, neu ddefnyddio'r rheolau cyllid y wlad. Dwi'n agored iawn i feddwl am hynny, ond nid fi ydy'r Gweinidog. Mae angen i'r Gweinidog ddechrau cymryd yr holl fater yma o ddifri, ac, yn anffodus, dwi yn teimlo brynhawn yma ein bod ni ddim wedi cael ein hargyhoeddi o gwbl fod yna ddealltwriaeth o gymhlethdod y sefyllfa, a dealltwriaeth o beth yn union sydd yn mynd ymlaen, a dealltwriaeth o'r loophole penodol yma sydd yn y system. Dwi'n hynod siomedig ynglŷn â hynny. Roeddwn i yn gobeithio y bydden ni heddiw yn gallu cael o leiaf rhyw fath o arwydd fod yna ddatrysiad ar fin cael ei ganfod. Yr unig - ychydig bach - o oleuni roeddwn i yn ei gymryd oedd bod yna ddisgrifiad yn fanna yn rhywle o artificial avoidance. Rŵan, i mi, loophole ydy hynna; gair arall am ' loophole ' ydy ' artificial avoidance '. A dwi'n mawr obeithio y bydd y mater yma yn cael sylw gan y Llywodraeth. Y tric yma roedd Rhun ap Iorwerth yn sôn amdano fo - y premiwm ei hun sydd wedi achosi hyn, i raddau. Ie, mae pobl yn ceisio ffeindio ffordd o beidio â gorfod talu'r premiwm, ac wedyn yn chwilio am driciau er mwyn gallu peidio â thalu unrhyw dreth o gwbl. Ac mi wnaeth y cyn Prif Weinidog sôn am hysbyseb ar y radio roedd e wedi ei glywed yn sôn am gwmni oedd yn ceisio rhoi cyngor i berchnogion ail gartrefi ynglŷn â sut i beidio â gorfod talu treth cyngor. Mae'n sobor pan ydym ni'n cyrraedd sefyllfa fel yna, oherwydd mae'r arian sy'n cael ei golli allan o'r gyfundrefn yn arian gwerthfawr i gynghorau lleol a allai fod yn cael ei ddefnyddio i greu tai fforddiadwy, tai cymdeithasol, tai sydd eu hangen o fewn ein cymunedau ni. Felly, dwi yn gobeithio y bydd yna ailfeddwl ac y bydd yna ystyried o ddifrif beth ydy'r ffordd o gwmpas y broblem yma. Beth gawsom ni gan y Gweinidog, yn anffodus, oedd disgrifiad o'r fframwaith casglu treth cyngor a disgrifiad o'r hyn sy'n digwydd, a does gen i ddim hyder o gwbl y prynhawn yma fod y Llywodraeth yn mynd i geisio mynd i'r afael â hyn, er gwaethaf cyfraniadau pawb arall o gwmpas yr ystafell heddiw.