English: Well, yes, that's an entirely valid point, and that is why we asked for the devolution of some of these taxes, and that is why Plaid Cymru's amendment specifically mentions tax rates going hand in hand with economic, environmental and social impacts, because there is more to taxation policy than the rate for specific properties. It's the impact that you want these taxes to drive. That's what the important thing is, and our amendment encapsulate the aims of the well-being of future generations Act in the way that we have set it out. So, although we don't support what the Conservatives have to say today, and we want everybody to support our amendments, of course, I also recognise that it is appropriate that we discuss even the purpose of taxation policy and how it will impact in terms of the economy and trade. In that sense, Plaid Cymru has tabled an amendment that specifically mentions the broader work in terms of taxation policy and properties in Wales. We have introduced a land transaction tax, but business rates is the main tax paid by people year on year. That is the main tax that has an impact on trade and industry in Wales, and that is where the Government's taxation policy has stated that they want to look at this area, to see whether there are possibilities in terms of improving business rates in Wales. Our amendment asks for this process to be hastened, because I do believe, and Plaid Cymru is of the view, that there are examples here where we could make improvements for the benefit of our local economies. I will just select a single area as an example of this - and I declare an interest here, because I am chair of the cross-party group on pubs and beer. But pubs, if you look at the impact of business rates on pubs - how that has happened in the reform that happened last year, which led to a number of pubs and hotels seeing great increases in business rates - at the moment, pubs pay almost 3 per cent of all business rates in Wales, but they are only 0.5 per cent of the number of businesses in Wales. So, there is a total mismatch between the number of businesses in this sector and how much rates they pay. They pay some £0.5 billion more than they would do if they were taxed in the same way as other businesses. It's also anticipated that business rates on pubs in Wales will increase by some 18 per cent by 2021-22. Now, I'm not asking for that to be entirely changed, but for us to start to move to a system of business rates that acknowledges - as the amendment does - the social and economic value of any tax policy and the possibilities here of ensuring that either pubs or town centre businesses do see that their taxes are based on turnover and profit, rather than on the location and the land only. I think all of these issues are worthy of discussion, so I welcome the fact that we are having such a discussion today, and I look forward to hearing the views of many other Members on this issue. Because one thing that's certain with the onset of the devolution of income tax is that this will become more of a contentious issue over the months and years to come.
Welsh: Wel, ie, mae hynny'n bwynt hollol deg, a dyna pam rŷm ni wedi gofyn am ddatganoli rhai o'r trethi yma, a dyna pam mae gwelliant Plaid Cymru yn sôn yn benodol am gyfraddau treth yn mynd law yn llaw gydag effeithiau economaidd, amgylcheddol a chymdeithasol, achos mae mwy i bolisi trethu na beth yw'r gyfradd ar gyfer eiddo penodol. Yr effaith rŷch chi'n moyn i'r trethi yma ei gyrru sydd yn bwysig, ac mae ein gwelliant ni, wrth gwrs, yn crisialu nodau Ddeddf llesiant cenedlaethau'r dyfodol, yn y ffordd rydym ni wedi'i osod e allan. So, er nad ydym yn cefnogi'r hyn sydd gan y Torïaid i ddweud heddiw, a'n bod ni am, wrth gwrs, i bobl gefnogi ein gwelliannau ni, rydym ni hefyd yn cydnabod ei fod yn briodol iawn i drafod, hyd yn oed yn fuan iawn, beth yw pwrpas polisi trethu a sut mae'n mynd i gael effaith economaidd a masnachol. Yn hynny o beth, mae Plaid Cymru wedi rhoi gwelliant i lawr sy'n sôn yn benodol am waith ehangach polisi trethu ac eiddo yng Nghymru. Rŷm ni wedi cyflwyno treth trafodiadau tir newydd, ond y trethi busnes, wrth gwrs, yw'r prif drethi y mae pobl yn eu talu. O flwyddyn i flwyddyn, dyna'r brif dreth sy'n cael effaith ar ddiwydiant a masnach yng Nghymru, a dyna'r un lle mae polisi treth y Llywodraeth wedi datgan eu bod nhw eisiau edrych i mewn i hyn, i weld a oes yna bosibiliadau o wella trethi busnes yng Nghymru. Mae ein gwelliant ni yn gofyn i gyflymu'r broses yma, achos rydw i yn meddwl, ac mae Plaid Cymru o'r farn, fod yna enghreifftiau yn fan hyn o lle y gallwn ni wella er lles yr economi leol. Fe wnaf i jest ddewis un maes fel enghraifft o hyn - ac rydw i'n datgan diddordeb yn fan hyn, achos rydw i'n gadeirydd ar y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar dafarndai a chwrw. Ond mae tafarndai, os edrychwch chi ar effaith trethi busnes ar dafarndai - sut mae hynny wedi digwydd, y diwygio'r llynedd a wnaeth arwain at nifer o dafarndai a gwestai yn gweld cynnydd uchel iawn - ar hyn o bryd, mae tafarndai yng Nghymru yn talu bron 3 y cant o'r holl drethi busnes yng Nghymru, ond maen nhw ond yn 0.5 y cant o'r nifer o fusnesau yng Nghymru. Mae yna mismatch llwyr rhwng y nifer o fusnesau sy'n dafarndai a faint o dreth busnes maen nhw'n ei hysgwyddo. Maen nhw'n talu rhywbeth fel £0.5 biliwn, oherwydd hynny, yn fwy nag y bydden nhw pe bydden nhw'n cael eu trethu yn yr un modd â busnesau eraill. Mae hi hefyd yn cael ei rhagweld y bydd trethi busnes ar dafarndai yng Nghymru yn cynyddu rhyw 18 y cant erbyn 2021-22. Nawr, nid gofyn ydw i i hynny gael ei newid yn llwyr, ond i ni ddechrau symud at system o drethi busnes sydd yn cydnabod - fel mae'r gwelliant yn ei wneud - pwysigrwydd cymdeithasol ac economaidd unrhyw bolisi treth, a hefyd y posibiliadau yn fan hyn o sicrhau bod naill ai tafarndai, neu fusnesau yng nghanol trefi, hefyd yn gweld bod eu trethi yn cael eu seilio ar drosiant ac elw yn hytrach na phresenoldeb lle a thir yn unig. Rydw i'n credu bod y materion yma yn werth eu trafod, felly rydw i'n croesawu'r ffaith bod gennym ni drafodaeth o'r fath, ac rydw i'n edrych ymlaen at glywed barn nifer o Aelodau eraill ar hyn, achos un peth sydd yn sicr gyda dyfodiad treth incwm yn cael ei datganoli yw y bydd hwn yn fwy o bwnc llosg fyth yn ystod y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd i ddod.