English: So, Minister, the Welsh Government guidance that I refer to is aimed at correcting previous mistakes by strengthening guidance on the use and commissioning of retrofit energy efficiency measures. It's very, very welcome. But, it carries an implicit recognition that things have been going wrong, even if the majority of installations across Wales have gone well. And, it comes as little comfort to my constituents, who are left with the errors of previous early schemes. So, at this point, let me reiterate: No. 1, there is a clear and compelling and urgent need to continue with the retrofitting of older properties, as the future generations commissioner has laid out, and to do so at increased pace and with increased urgency; but that No. 2, this needs to be done in a way that learns the lessons of where things have gone wrong, and avoids repeating those mistakes; and that No. 3, most importantly, there is an equally clear and compelling need to put right the wrongs of past schemes and to do it now. Unless we do this, the confidence in new schemes will be shaken, at best. So, the revised guidance that I referred to above has sought to strengthen procedures and practice and standards. The Minister will no doubt also want to refer to the optimised retrofit programme as another key step in doing retrofit well, with the right installations, in the right properties, by the right installers, with the right oversight, and with the right protection for residents. But, this doesn't remedy the historic and enduring problems for my constituents in Caerau, and nor for others across other parts of Wales and in the UK, for that matter, where cladding has gone wrong. So, Minister, the focus must be now to remediate those properties where things have gone wrong, regardless, frankly, of who caused the problem in the first instance. That is why, on behalf of my constituents affected, I call on the Welsh Government today to help resolve this. The Minister and I - and her predecessor, indeed - have discussed this in detail, and the many hurdles. In this example in Caerau, as with so many, the original installers have long ceased trading. Trading Standards have consequently been hamstrung on this matter, as the companies have disappeared. We have the added complexity, in the absence of the original companies and the inability of Trading Standards to pursue this, of no other legal entity accepting responsibility, to the long-running frustration of myself and the frustration of residents - and, I suspect, of Ministers as well. So, while this 2012-13 scheme was originally co-funded from the larger energy companies under their ECO obligations, those energy companies of course argue that they have nothing to do with this at a local level. The national UK regulator that oversees the energy and the ECO obligations argues the same. They are too high up. At a national level, these installations in Caerau were driven by both the UK Government under the CESP and ECO schemes, and the Welsh Government under the Arbed scheme, further complicating the picture. My understanding, though perhaps the Minister can confirm or refute this, is that as many as four out of the five Caerau installations were indeed under the UK schemes. But, that still leaves one out of five under the Arbed scheme. At a very local level, some - though not all - were administered by the local authority, Bridgend County Borough Council, though they contend that the problems are due to the installer, as the reports have shown, not the procurement process and the awarding of contracts or oversight of works. I should refer as well, but without mentioning in detail, to the fact that there is a parallel ombudsman inquiry going on into aspects of the original award of contracts. But, you know, for residents affected, this complexity is irrelevant. The solution to them is blindingly obvious: somebody needs to step up and make good the damage done. It is long overdue. So, Minister, let me ask some very specific questions. First of all, I welcome the council's stated ambition, which they have confirmed with me, which is to agree a comprehensive scheme with the Welsh Government that seeks to consistently and fairly address the issues in all of the properties affected, however that work was originally funded. Minister, would this also be the intention of Welsh Government? Minister, you wrote to me earlier this year confirming that you had - and I welcome this - invited Bridgend County Borough Council to put forward a proposal to resolve the issue following earlier discussions, and I understand this was received by you on 6 September. Could you confirm this, and give us an update on progress? Could the Minister also consider, in any future remediation scheme, that Welsh Government will need to underwrite any risk assumed by the local authority and, of course, by the local taxpayer? Could you give us, Minister, an update on discussions you've had with the energy regulator and with the UK Government on their role and potential contributions to any remediation scheme? And, Minister, will you be asking the UK Government to contribute to any remediation scheme so that the burden does not fall entirely on the Welsh budget or on local taxpayers in Bridgend? And would she further agree with me, and indeed the local authority, that there are significant risks from further delays to not proceeding with the work at all, including further damage to the homes in Caerau, caused by the poor-quality, original workmanship on the installed measures; the wider significant negative impact on public services due to the potential, possibly, to need to rehouse families if their homes become unfit for habitation; and further negative impacts on health and social services dealing with the well-being consequences of this situation? Finally, in addition to the subsequent strengthening of standards on installation and procurement, which I referred to earlier, would the Minister agree to consider, very carefully and in detail, the Construction Industry Training Board proposals for an insulation apprenticeship qualification in Wales; the need for detailed skills plans for retrofit, including new standards and qualifications; the need to develop and enforce new quality systems, skills, and competency requirements in advance of the next round of contracts; and any other ways to strengthen the quality of delivering good building insulation? And finally, finally, if, for whatever reason, you cannot, Minister, give me the full answers on a remediation scheme today because you've got to wait for budget decisions, or because you've not yet had the final advice from officials on the proposals from Bridgend County Borough Council, then will you at least agree to seek resolution to these matters rapidly and report back to the Senedd, to me, and to my constituents at the very earliest opportunity? I've made clear, Minister, that we need, absolutely, to continue the roll-out of energy efficiency measures, including and especially in some of the older housing stock, where fuel poverty and energy inefficiency is most marked. But to do so we need to restore confidence, and that means putting right the mistakes of the past, investing too in better skills and better standards for the future. So, Minister, my constituents' homes and lives were damaged by poor installation measures in a scheme backed by UK and Welsh Government, with significant roles played by the regulator on high and the council at local level, supported by levies from the big energy companies. With these players all involved to some degree, they and I had every reason to believe their homes would be enhanced. They've been let down. The root cause may, Dirprwy Lywydd, be poor or inappropriate installation, but the solution lies beyond the installation companies who've long gone. The solution lies with us, in partnership, to bring forward a scheme. I ask for your help and the help of Welsh Government in doing this.
Welsh: Felly, Weinidog, nod canllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru y cyfeiriaf atynt yw cywiro camgymeriadau blaenorol drwy gryfhau'r canllawiau ar ddefnyddio a chomisiynu mesurau ôl-osod effeithlonrwydd ynni. Maent i'w croesawu'n fawr iawn. Ond mae yna gydnabyddiaeth ddealledig fod pethau wedi bod yn mynd o chwith, hyd yn oed os yw'r rhan fwyaf o osodiadau ledled Cymru wedi bod yn llwyddiannus. Ac nid yw'n llawer o gysur i fy etholwyr sy'n gorfod wynebu camgymeriadau cynlluniau cynnar blaenorol. Felly, ar y pwynt hwn, gadewch imi ailadrodd: Rhif 1, mae angen clir a grymus ar frys i barhau i ôl-osod eiddo hŷn, fel y mae comisiynydd cenedlaethau'r dyfodol wedi'i nodi, ac i wneud hynny'n gyflymach a chyda mwy o frys; ond Rhif 2, mae angen gwneud hyn mewn ffordd sy'n dysgu gwersi o bethau sydd wedi mynd o chwith, ac sy'n osgoi ailadrodd y camgymeriadau hynny; a Rhif 3, yn bwysicaf oll, mae yna angen yr un mor glir a grymus, i unioni camgymeriadau cynlluniau'r gorffennol a gwneud hynny yn awr. Oni wnawn hyn, bydd yr hyder mewn cynlluniau newydd yn sigledig, ar y gorau. Felly, mae'r canllawiau diwygiedig y cyfeiriais atynt uchod wedi ceisio cryfhau gweithdrefnau, arferion a safonau. Mae'n siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog hefyd eisiau cyfeirio at y rhaglen ôl-osod er mwyn optimeiddio fel cam allweddol arall wrth ôl-osod yn dda, gyda'r gosodiadau cywir, yn yr eiddo cywir, gan y gosodwyr cywir, gyda'r oruchwyliaeth gywir, a chyda'r amddiffyniad cywir i breswylwyr. Ond nid yw hyn yn unioni'r problemau hanesyddol a pharhaus sy'n wynebu fy etholwyr yng Nghaerau, ac eraill ar draws rhannau eraill o Gymru ac yn y DU o ran hynny, lle mae'r gwaith o osod cladin wedi mynd o chwith. Felly, Weinidog, rhaid canolbwyntio yn awr ar adfer eiddo lle mae pethau wedi mynd o chwith, ni waeth beth a achosodd y broblem yn y lle cyntaf a dweud y gwir. Dyna pam, ar ran fy etholwyr sydd wedi cael eu heffeithio, rwy'n galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru heddiw i helpu i ddatrys hyn. Mae'r Gweinidog a minnau - a'i rhagflaenydd, yn wir - wedi trafod hyn yn fanwl, a'r rhwystrau niferus. Yn yr enghraifft hon yng Nghaerau, fel gyda chymaint, mae'r gosodwyr gwreiddiol wedi hen roi'r gorau i fasnachu. O ganlyniad, mae dwylo Safonau Masnach wedi'u clymu ar y mater hwn, gan fod y cwmnïau wedi diflannu. Mae gennym gymhlethdod ychwanegol, yn absenoldeb y cwmnïau gwreiddiol ac anallu Safonau Masnach i fynd ar drywydd hyn, oherwydd nid oes unrhyw endid cyfreithiol arall yn derbyn cyfrifoldeb, er mawr rwystredigaeth i mi a'r preswylwyr - ac i Weinidogion hefyd, rwy'n tybio. Felly, er bod cynllun 2012-13 wedi'i ariannu ar y cyd yn wreiddiol gan y cwmnïau ynni mwy o dan eu rhwymedigaeth cwmni ynni (ECO), mae'r cwmnïau ynni hynny'n dadlau wrth gwrs nad oes ganddynt unrhyw beth i'w wneud â hyn ar lefel leol. Mae rheoleiddiwr cenedlaethol y DU sy'n goruchwylio rhwymedigaethau ynni ac ECO yn dadlau'r un peth. Maent yn rhy uchel i fyny. Ar lefel genedlaethol, cafodd y gosodiadau hyn yng Nghaerau eu hysgogi gan Lywodraeth y DU o dan gynlluniau'r Rhaglen Arbed Ynni Cymunedau a'r rhwymedigaeth cwmni ynni, a Llywodraeth Cymru o dan gynllun Arbed, gan gymhlethu'r darlun ymhellach. Fy nealltwriaeth i, er efallai y gall y Gweinidog gadarnhau neu wrthod hyn, yw bod cynifer â phedwar o bob pump o'r gosodiadau yng Nghaerau wedi digwydd o dan gynlluniau'r DU. Ond mae hynny'n dal i olygu bod un o bob pump wedi'u gosod o dan gynllun Arbed. Ar lefel leol iawn, gweinyddwyd rhai - er nad pob un - gan yr awdurdod lleol, Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, er eu bod hwy'n dadlau mai'r gosodwr sy'n gyfrifol am y problemau, fel y mae'r adroddiadau wedi'i ddangos, nid y broses gaffael a dyfarnu contractau neu oruchwylio gwaith. Dylwn grybwyll hefyd, ond nid wyf am ei drafod yn fanwl, y ffaith bod ymchwiliad ombwdsmon cyfochrog ar y gweill i agweddau ar y modd y cafodd contractau eu dyfarnu'n wreiddiol. Ond wyddoch chi, i drigolion yr effeithiwyd arnynt, mae'r cymhlethdod hwn yn amherthnasol. Mae'r ateb iddynt hwy yn amlwg iawn: mae angen i rywun gamu i'r adwy ac unioni'r difrod a wnaed. Mae'n hen bryd. Felly, Weinidog, gadewch imi ofyn rhai cwestiynau penodol iawn. Yn gyntaf oll, rwy'n croesawu uchelgais datganedig y cyngor, a chefais gadarnhad o hynny ganddynt, sef cytuno ar gynllun cynhwysfawr gyda Llywodraeth Cymru sy'n ceisio mynd i'r afael â'r problemau ym mhob eiddo yr effeithiwyd arnynt mewn modd sy'n gyson ac yn deg sut bynnag yr ariannwyd y gwaith yn wreiddiol. Weinidog, ai dyma fyddai bwriad Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd? Weinidog, fe ysgrifennoch chi ataf yn gynharach eleni i gadarnhau eich bod - ac rwy'n croesawu hyn - wedi gwahodd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr i gyflwyno cynnig i ddatrys y mater yn dilyn trafodaethau cynharach, a deallaf eich bod wedi derbyn hwn ar 6 Medi. A allech chi gadarnhau hyn, a rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ar gynnydd? A allai'r Gweinidog hefyd ystyried, mewn unrhyw gynllun adfer yn y dyfodol, y bydd angen i Lywodraeth Cymru danysgrifennu unrhyw risg i'r awdurdod lleol, a'r trethdalwr lleol wrth gwrs? A allech chi roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i ni, Weinidog, am y trafodaethau a gawsoch gyda'r rheoleiddiwr ynni a Llywodraeth y DU ar eu rôl a'u cyfraniadau posibl i unrhyw gynllun adfer? Ac a fyddwch yn gofyn i Lywodraeth y DU gyfrannu at unrhyw gynllun adfer fel nad yw'r baich yn disgyn yn gyfan gwbl ar gyllideb Cymru neu ar drethdalwyr lleol ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr? Ac a fyddai'n cytuno â mi, a'r awdurdod lleol yn wir, y bydd oedi pellach cyn bwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith yn creu risgiau sylweddol, gan gynnwys difrod pellach i'r cartrefi yng Nghaerau wedi'i achosi gan y gwaith gosod gwreiddiol o ansawdd gwael a wnaed; yr effaith negyddol sylweddol ehangach ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus oherwydd y perygl posibl o orfod ailgartrefu teuluoedd os daw eu cartrefi'n anaddas i fyw ynddynt; ac effeithiau negyddol pellach ar wasanaethau iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol sy'n ymdrin â chanlyniadau llesiant y sefyllfa hon? Yn olaf, yn ogystal â chryfhau safonau gosod a chaffael, fel y nodais yn gynharach, a fyddai'r Gweinidog yn cytuno i roi ystyriaeth ofalus a manwl iawn i argymhellion Bwrdd Hyfforddi'r Diwydiant Adeiladu ar gyfer cymhwyster prentisiaeth inswleiddio yng Nghymru; yr angen am gynlluniau sgiliau manwl ar gyfer ôl-osod, gan gynnwys safonau a chymwysterau newydd; yr angen i ddatblygu a gorfodi systemau, sgiliau a gofynion cymhwysedd newydd o ansawdd cyn y cylch nesaf o gontractau; ac unrhyw ffyrdd eraill o gryfhau ansawdd y gwaith o insiwleiddio adeiladau'n dda? Ac yn olaf, yn olaf, os na allwch, am ba reswm bynnag, roi'r atebion llawn imi ar gynllun adfer heddiw oherwydd bod yn rhaid i chi aros am benderfyniadau cyllidebol, neu oherwydd nad ydych wedi cael y cyngor terfynol eto gan swyddogion ar y cynigion gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, a wnewch chi gytuno o leiaf i geisio datrys y materion hyn yn gyflym ac adrodd yn ôl i'r Senedd, i mi, ac i fy etholwyr cyn gynted â phosibl? Rwyf wedi dweud yn glir, Weinidog, fod angen yn bendant i ni barhau i gyflwyno mesurau effeithlonrwydd ynni, gan gynnwys, ac yn enwedig mewn peth o'r stoc dai hŷn, lle mae tlodi tanwydd ac aneffeithlonrwydd ynni i'w weld yn fwyaf amlwg. Ond er mwyn gwneud hynny mae angen i ni adfer hyder, ac mae hynny'n golygu unioni camgymeriadau'r gorffennol, yn ogystal â buddsoddi mewn sgiliau a safonau gwell ar gyfer y dyfodol. Felly, Weinidog, cafodd cartrefi a bywydau fy etholwyr eu difrodi gan fesurau gosod gwael mewn cynllun a gefnogwyd gan Lywodraeth y DU a Llywodraeth Cymru, gyda rolau sylweddol yn cael eu chwarae gan y rheoleiddiwr ar lefel uchel a'r cyngor ar lefel leol, a chefnogaeth gan y cwmnïau ynni mawr. Gyda'r chwaraewyr hyn i gyd yn chwarae rhan i ryw raddau, roedd ganddynt hwy a minnau bob rheswm i gredu y byddai eu cartrefi'n cael eu gwella. Gwnaed cam â hwy. Mae'n bosibl mai gosodiadau gwael neu amhriodol yw'r achos sylfaenol, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ond mae'r ateb y tu hwnt i'r cwmnïau gosod sydd wedi hen fynd. Mater i ni, mewn partneriaeth, yw ei ddatrys drwy gyflwyno cynllun. Gofynnaf am eich cymorth chi a chymorth Llywodraeth Cymru i wneud hyn.