English: Yesterday, we heard about the latest JMC (EN) - the European negotiations JMC - proposals about devolved administrations. It was disappointing to hear from the Cabinet Secretary - although he was wanting to be constructive and positive - when he said that they came to a JMC meeting and there was no paper in advance of the proposals, which, of course, are proposals that have a very unfortunate centralising intent with the power of veto over key devolved responsibilities. And, of course, that has led to us progressing with our continuity Bill, whereas the Cabinet Secretary was hoping that negotiations could lead us forward, so that would not have been necessary if our amendments, and indeed the amendments of the Scottish Government, had been accepted. But I think this is an example of why we have got to look at these inter-governmental relationships and how disappointing it is that they aren't more robust in these important times. I will say - hopefully it's helpful - to give my evidence and experience of being a former member, as a Minister, of JMC Europe, which of course - and I think the Cabinet Secretary has also recognised this - has been a very constructive model. Because in terms of JMC Europe, which was a regular event that I attended with Ministers from the Scottish Government, the Northern Ireland Executive and with UK Government Ministers, our officials all met well in advance of these meetings, agendas were planned and we often had trilateral and bilateral meetings before the JMC took place. And, of course, we were discussing issues like preparations for the forthcoming European Council and major issues where the UK Government was asking for our views, as devolved administrations, as to the impact of the agenda issues. I think there's a lot to be learnt from that. Why isn't that model being adopted for JMC (EN) as well - your all-important European negotiating JMC? Also, I'd have to say that during our time as a member in Europe, often devolved administrations' Ministers were asked to go to EU councils. And even at one time, I remember being the only Minister available from the countries of the UK because there was a UK general election. So, they were very happy - the UK Government - for me, as an education Minister, to go to an education council on behalf of the member state, which of course was the UK Government. We must learn from that. Why can't we build on the good, positive, respectful relationships that were developed? So, I just want to welcome the report, particularly the recommendations about JMC plenary. Not only must we strengthen it, but we must actually make it work. I think, yesterday, the Cabinet Secretary said it hadn't met for many, many months - meetings were postponed and not organised. This is entirely the wrong situation in terms of where we should be now. We need to make it function. All of the recommendations that the committee has made are so important in that it should have decision-making powers; it cannot just be a talking shop. It cannot be something - . There is much stage management, obviously, of these events, in bringing key people - Prime Ministers and First Ministers - all together, but it should have that kind of decision-making clout. It should have recourse to independent dispute mechanisms, adjudication mechanisms and arbitration as well. I was very interested that, in the evidence from Rhodri Morgan - and I'm very grateful that the Chair put that acknowledgment of a former First Minister in his foreword - because Rhodri also said that there should be an independent resource-allocation mechanism, an independent mechanism in dispute over resource allocation. Well, of course that was critically important. Gerry Holtham said that was crucial in his recommendations in the Holtham commission. We know that in terms of dispute over resource allocation, that was crucial. Maybe you discussed that and felt that you couldn't go that far in terms of the committee. So, I think 'Securing Wales' Future' - . Of course, we do often go back to that; it's not that long ago, that White Paper, which of course was developed between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru. It was very clear then that we needed a new set of robust, transparent and accountable relationships at UK level. And the Council of Ministers, of course, is the way forward, and of course our First Minister had already suggested that we should have that arrangement, that inter-governmental arrangement. So, I would just say today that this is a cross-party report, which I'm sure we will endorse and there will be a strong backing from the Welsh Government. We are signed up to it; what about the UK Government? Where was the Secretary of State for Wales? How are you going to take - ? How are we - ? It's not just you; it's not just the Welsh Government. How are we as an Assembly, as a Senedd, going to ensure that this is taken forward? Of course, we can make the first step with securing a Speakers' conference to move forward these important recommendations in this report.
Welsh: Ddoe, clywsom am argymhellion diweddaraf y Cyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion (Negodiadau'r UE) ynglŷn â'r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig. Siomedig oedd clywed gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet - er ei fod am fod yn adeiladol a chadarnhaol - pan ddywedodd eu bod wedi mynd i gyfarfod o'r Cyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion ac nad oedd papur wedi'i roi cyn yr argymhellion, sef argymhellion, wrth gwrs, sydd â bwriad anffodus i ganoli gyda phŵer feto dros gyfrifoldebau allweddol sydd wedi'u datganoli. Ac wrth gwrs, mae hyn wedi ein harwain i symud ymlaen gyda'n Bil parhad, er bod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn gobeithio y gallai negodiadau ein symud yn ein blaenau, fel na fyddai wedi bod angen hynny pe bai ein gwelliannau, a gwelliannau Llywodraeth yr Alban yn wir, wedi'u derbyn. Ond rwy'n credu bod hon yn enghraifft o pam y mae'n rhaid inni edrych ar y cysylltiadau rhynglywodraethol hyn a pha mor siomedig yw hi nad ydynt yn fwy cadarn ar yr adeg bwysig hon. Rwyf am ddweud - a gobeithio y bydd yn ddefnyddiol - i roi fy nhystiolaeth a fy mhrofiad o fod yn gyn-aelod, fel Gweinidog, o Gyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion Ewrop, sydd wrth gwrs - a chredaf fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi cydnabod hyn hefyd - wedi bod yn fodel adeiladol iawn. Oherwydd o ran Cyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion Ewrop, a oedd yn ddigwyddiad rheolaidd a fynychwn gyda Gweinidogion o Lywodraeth yr Alban, Gweithrediaeth Gogledd Iwerddon a chyda Gweinidogion Llywodraeth y DU, roedd ein swyddogion i gyd yn cyfarfod ymhell cyn y cyfarfodydd hyn, câi agendâu eu cynllunio ac yn aml caem gyfarfodydd tairochrog a dwyochrog cyn y cynhelid y Cyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion. Ac wrth gwrs, roeddem yn trafod materion fel paratoadau ar gyfer y Cyngor Ewropeaidd sydd i ddod a materion o bwys pan oedd Llywodraeth y DU yn gofyn am ein barn, fel gweinyddiaethau datganoledig, am effaith materion yr agenda. Credaf fod llawer i'w ddysgu o hynny. Pam nad yw'r model hwnnw'n cael ei fabwysiadu ar gyfer y Cyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion (Negodiadau'r UE) yn ogystal - eich Cyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion negodiadau Ewropeaidd hollbwysig? Hefyd, rhaid imi ddweud, yn ystod ein hamser fel aelod yn Ewrop, yn aml gofynnid i Weinidogion gweinyddiaethau datganoledig fynd i gynghorau'r UE. Ac ar un adeg, hyd yn oed, cofiaf mai fi oedd yr unig Weinidog a oedd ar gael o wledydd y DU oherwydd bod etholiad cyffredinol yn y DU. Felly, roeddent yn hapus iawn - Llywodraeth y DU - i mi, fel Gweinidog addysg, fynd i gyngor addysg ar ran yr aelod-wladwriaeth, sef Llywodraeth y DU wrth gwrs. Rhaid inni ddysgu o hynny. Pam na allwn adeiladu ar y cysylltiadau da, cadarnhaol a llawn parch a ddatblygwyd? Felly, hoffwn groesawu'r adroddiad, yn enwedig yr argymhellion ynghylch cyfarfod llawn y Cyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion. Rhaid inni ei gryfhau, ond mewn gwirionedd rhaid inni wneud iddo weithio hefyd. Ddoe, rwy'n credu, dywedodd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet nad oeddent wedi cyfarfod ers llawer iawn o fisoedd - cafodd cyfarfodydd eu gohirio ac ni threfnwyd rhai eraill. Dyma'r union sefyllfa na ddylem fod ynddi yn awr. Mae angen inni wneud iddi weithio. Mae pob un o'r argymhellion a wnaed gan y pwyllgor mor bwysig yn yr ystyr y dylai gael pwerau i wneud penderfyniadau; ni all fod yn siop siarad yn unig. Ni all fod yn rhywbeth - . Caiff y digwyddiadau hyn eu rheoli ymlaen llaw, yn amlwg, o ran dod â phobl allweddol - Prif Weinidogion - at ei gilydd, ond dylai gael y math hwnnw o rym i wneud penderfyniadau. Dylai allu pwyso ar fecanweithiau anghydfod annibynnol, mecanweithiau dyfarnu a chyflafareddu yn ogystal. Roedd hi'n ddiddorol, yn y dystiolaeth gan Rhodri Morgan - ac rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r Cadeirydd am gydnabod y cyn-Brif Weinidog yn ei ragair - oherwydd fe ddywedodd Rhodri hefyd y dylai fod mecanwaith dyrannu adnoddau annibynnol, mecanwaith annibynnol mewn anghydfod ynghylch dyrannu adnoddau. Wel, roedd hynny'n hollbwysig wrth gwrs. Dywedodd Gerry Holtham fod hynny'n hollbwysig yn ei argymhellion yng nghomisiwn Holtham. Mewn perthynas ag anghydfod ynghylch dyrannu adnoddau, gwyddom fod hynny'n hollbwysig. Efallai eich bod wedi trafod hynny ac yn teimlo na allech fynd mor bell â hynny o ran y pwyllgor. Felly, credaf fod 'Diogelu Dyfodol Cymru' - . Wrth gwrs, rydym yn aml yn mynd yn ôl at hynny; nid oes llawer o amser ers y Papur Gwyn hwnnw a ddatblygwyd rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a Phlaid Cymru wrth gwrs. Roedd yn amlwg iawn bryd hynny fod angen set newydd o gysylltiadau cadarn, tryloyw ac atebol ar lefel y DU. A Chyngor y Gweinidogion, wrth gwrs, yw'r ffordd ymlaen, ac wrth gwrs roedd ein Prif Weinidog eisoes wedi awgrymu y dylem gael y trefniant hwnnw, y trefniant rhynglywodraethol hwnnw. Felly, hoffwn ddweud heddiw mai adroddiad trawsbleidiol yw hwn, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddwn yn ei gymeradwyo ac y bydd cefnogaeth gref gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Rydym wedi ymrwymo iddo; beth am Lywodraeth y DU? Ble roedd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru? Sut rydych chi am - ? Sut rydym ni - ? Nid chi'n unig; nid Llywodraeth Cymru yn unig. Sut rydym ni fel Cynulliad, fel Senedd, yn mynd i sicrhau bod symud ymlaen ar hyn? Wrth gwrs, gallwn wneud y cam cyntaf drwy sicrhau cynhadledd y Llefaryddion i fwrw ymlaen â'r argymhellion pwysig yn yr adroddiad hwn.