English: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, it's always a pleasure to follow Mike Hedges, and how brave he was to approach this issue from a philosophical point of view. He seemed to be arguing that land tax was both essential and imaginary at one stage, but perhaps I didn't really follow his logic terribly well. The rest of his peroration was on the purpose and wonder of tax, and I've read the motion carefully, and I can't see anything in it that says we should be in a no-tax environment. Obviously, tax is an important part of establishing any civic form of life, and as Conservatives we recognise that. But it's getting the best value and ensuring that the tax regime does not inhibit optimum enterprise, and that's what this debate is about this afternoon. And it's quite proper that we scrutinise the Cabinet Secretary for the choices he has made and where the tax burden should fall. I think it's best to look at the big picture. We now have, with a fairly radical form of devolution in the United Kingdom, which I do support, the potential to introduce a level of economic competition that we can, to some extent, control. Until now, we've really been dominated very much by the economic pattern of London and the south-east of England, which sets some pretty firm norms in terms of taxation and broader economic policy, but with devolution we can now make more of these choices ourselves. And we should look at how we compare with the other jurisdictions in the United Kingdom; that is the rational thing to do. By looking at the big picture, isn't it better for us to say, 'Come to Wales, we're the most business-friendly location in the United Kingdom'? My colleague Suzy Davies talked about rental markets in London, and no-one disputes that commercial properties are a lot more expensive in London, but our competitor for the economic activity that is being pushed out of London and the south-east is Manchester, it's Newcastle, it's Liverpool, and those are the areas that we will now see some of the investors fleeing to, where they may have come to Wales. And I do think this point has to be addressed very seriously. It's not a good message to say, 'Come to Wales and you'll certainly pay more in terms of land transaction tax than you would in Scotland or England'. My economic vision for Wales is that we use the resources that are in the other parts of the United Kingdom as well. I'm a firm believer that it will work to the benefit of London and the south-east if more economic activity comes to the other parts of the United Kingdom, and this was a big part of the shift we saw in public policy after 2010 and the election of a Conservative-led Government. We do need to rebalance the economy of the United Kingdom as a whole. We should see London as a resource. I think we should have a bigger presence in London. I was always rather critical of my own party's view of our commercial embassy, or whatever we call it now, in London. It seemed to me that it should have been rather grander and more conspicuous and more ambitious in going out there and using London as a way of attracting business, not only that which is being pushed out of London, but also the investors that come to London to make an investment from abroad into the British economy. Can I just offer the Minister, because I see him shaking under the assault of our criticism - ? [ Laughter.] I greatly admire the Cabinet Secretary, and I wish him well in his future ambitions as - . I want to offer him - [ Interruption.] I want to offer him - [ Interruption.] I want to offer him - [ Interruption.] I want to offer him a bit of a way out -
Welsh: Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae bob amser yn bleser cael dilyn Mike Hedges, ac roedd mor ddewr yn trafod y mater o safbwynt athronyddol. Roedd i'w weld fel pe bai'n dadlau bod y dreth ar dir yn hanfodol ac yn ddychmygol ar un pryd, ond efallai na lwyddais i ddilyn ei resymeg yn arbennig o dda. Roedd gweddill ei berorasiwn ar ddiben a rhyfeddod trethiant, ac rwyf wedi darllen y cynnig yn ofalus, ac ni allaf weld unrhyw beth ynddo sy'n dweud y dylem fod mewn amgylchedd heb unrhyw drethi o gwbl. Yn amlwg, mae treth yn rhan bwysig o sefydlu unrhyw ffurf ar fywyd dinesig, ac fel Ceidwadwyr rydym yn cydnabod hynny. Ond mae'n ymwneud â chael y gwerth gorau a sicrhau nad yw'r gyfundrefn dreth yn llesteirio'r fenter orau sy'n bosibl, ac am hynny y mae'r ddadl y prynhawn yma. Ac mae'n hollol briodol ein bod yn craffu ar y dewisiadau a wnaeth Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet a lle y dylai'r baich treth fod. Rwy'n meddwl ei bod hi'n well edrych ar y darlun mawr. Bellach, gyda ffurf gymharol radical o ddatganoli yn y Deyrnas Unedig, rhywbeth rwy'n ei gefnogi, mae gennym botensial i gyflwyno lefel o gystadleuaeth economaidd y gallwn ei rheoli i ryw raddau. Hyd yn hyn, rydym wedi cael ein dominyddu'n helaeth gan batrwm economaidd Llundain a de-ddwyrain Lloegr, sy'n pennu normau go gadarn o ran trethiant a pholisi economaidd ehangach, ond gyda datganoli gallwn bellach wneud mwy o'r dewisiadau hyn ein hunain. A dylem ystyried sut y cymharwn ag awdurdodaethau eraill yn y Deyrnas Unedig; dyna'r peth rhesymegol i'w wneud. O edrych ar y darlun cyfan, onid yw'n well inni ddweud, 'Dewch i Gymru, dyma'r lleoliad mwyaf ystyriol o fusnesau yn y Deyrnas Unedig'? Siaradodd fy nghyd-Aelod Suzy Davies am farchnadoedd rhentu yn Llundain, ac nid oes neb un anghytuno bod eiddo masnachol yn ddrutach o lawer yn Llundain, ond ein cystadleuwyr am y gweithgarwch economaidd sy'n cael ei wthio allan o Lundain a de-ddwyrain Lloegr yw Manceinion, Newcastle, Lerpwl, a dyna'r ardaloedd y byddwn bellach yn gweld buddsoddwyr yn dianc iddynt, lle y gallent fod wedi dod i Gymru. Ac rwy'n credu bod angen rhoi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i'r pwynt hwn. Nid yw'n neges dda i ddweud, 'Dewch i Gymru a byddwch yn sicr yn talu mwy o dreth trafodiadau tir nag y byddech yn yr Alban neu yn Lloegr'. Fy ngweledigaeth economaidd ar gyfer Cymru yw inni ddefnyddio'r adnoddau sydd mewn rhannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig yn ogystal. Rwy'n credu'n gryf y bydd yn gweithio er budd Llundain a de-ddwyrain Lloegr os daw mwy o weithgaredd economaidd i rannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig, ac roedd hyn yn rhan fawr o'r symud a welsom mewn polisi cyhoeddus ar ôl 2010 ac ethol Llywodraeth dan arweiniad y Ceidwadwyr. Mae angen inni ailgydbwyso economi'r Deyrnas Unedig yn ei chyfanrwydd. Dylem weld Llundain fel adnodd. Dylai fod gennym fwy o bresenoldeb yn Llundain. Roeddwn bob amser yn feirniadol braidd o safbwynt fy mhlaid ynglŷn â'n llysgenhadaeth fasnachol, neu beth bynnag y'i gelwir gennym bellach, yn Llundain. Ymddangosai i mi y dylai fod wedi bod yn fwy mawreddog ac amlwg ac uchelgeisiol wrth fynd allan a defnyddio Llundain fel ffordd o ddenu busnes, nid yn unig yr hyn sy'n cael ei wthio allan o Lundain, ond y buddsoddwyr sy'n dod i Lundain i fuddsoddi yn economi Prydain o dramor hefyd. A gaf fi gynnig i'r Gweinidog, oherwydd fe'i gwelaf yn ysgwyd o dan lach ein beirniadaeth - ? [ Chwerthin.] Rwy'n edmygu Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn fawr, ac yn dymuno'n dda iddo yn ei uchelgais ar gyfer y dyfodol fel - . Rwyf am gynnig - [ T orri ar draws.] Rwyf am gynnig - [ Torri ar draws.] Rwyf am gynnig - [ Torri ar draws.] Rwyf am gynnig rhyw damaid o ffordd allan iddo -