English: Well, I sincerely am sorry to burst your bubble, Janet. It is hard to keep up, I must say, because when we made the decision not to go ahead with the roundabout changes, you told me that you were in favour of the decision. You're now against the decision. So, it's quite confusing. The point about those roundabouts, like the other decisions made in the roads review, is that, when schemes were built for road-safety reasons, the cases being made by our own departments and engineers were that the way to deal with that was by putting in grade-separated junctions - so, flyovers, in effect. Now, as I mentioned in the speech earlier, a third of all emissions from transport schemes come from the embodied carbon in the scheme. So, grade-separated junctions are expensive, they use a large amount of carbon, and the safety case that you make - if you read again the report that the roads review issued of those junctions - the safety case had not been made. They were effectively about increasing traffic flow and traffic speeds. Now, that is not consistent with safety. I know nothing about your claim that it would put economic development in jeopardy, and I'd like to hear some evidence behind that, if that is, indeed, the case. But let me go back to the earlier point: you said that you want to put the infrastructure in place first and then look at the services. You know, this is a chicken-and-egg situation. We've been trying this approach of, 'Let's deal with this traffic problem with a bypass; let's deal with this traffic problem with an extra lane' for 70 years, and what it's done, as the roads review makes clear, is generate extra travel, which, then, the roads fill up and there's more congestion and then you have more investment. So, there is never any money to fund the alternatives. At some point, we have to break this cycle to put us in a way that we are fit for purpose with the climate targets that you and I have both said publicly we support, because it's no good supporting the target if you don't support the actions necessary.
Welsh: Wel, mae'n ddrwg iawn gen i fyrstio eich swigen, Janet. Mae'n anodd dal i fyny, rhaid i mi ddweud, oherwydd pan wnaethon ni'r penderfyniad i beidio bwrw ymlaen â'r newidiadau cylchfan, fe wnaethoch chi ddweud wrthyf i eich bod chi o blaid y penderfyniad. Rydych chi nawr yn erbyn y penderfyniad. Felly, mae'n eithaf dryslyd. Y pwynt am y cylchfannau hynny, fel y penderfyniadau eraill a wnaed yn yr adolygiad ffyrdd, yw, pan adeiladwyd cynlluniau am resymau diogelwch ar y ffyrdd, yr achosion oedd yn cael eu gwneud gan ein hadrannau a'n peirianwyr ein hunain oedd mai'r ffordd i ymdrin â hynny oedd drwy roi cyffyrdd aml-lefel - felly, trosffyrdd, i bob pwrpas. Nawr, fel y soniais yn yr araith yn gynharach, mae traean o'r holl allyriadau o gynlluniau trafnidiaeth yn dod o'r carbon sydd wedi'i ymgorffori yn y cynllun. Felly, mae cyffyrdd aml-lefel yn ddrud, maen nhw'n defnyddio llawer iawn o garbon, a'r achos diogelwch rydych chi'n ei wneud - pe byddech chi'n darllen yr adroddiad eto y gwnaeth yr adolygiad ffyrdd ei gyhoeddi o'r cyffyrdd hynny - nid oedd yr achos diogelwch wedi'i wneud. Roedden nhw i bob pwrpas yn ymwneud â chynyddu llif y traffig a chyflymder traffig. Nawr, nid yw hynny'n gyson â diogelwch. Wyddwn i ddim am eich honiad chi y byddai'n peryglu datblygiad economaidd, a hoffwn glywed rhywfaint o dystiolaeth y tu ôl i hynny, os yw hynny, yn wir. Ond gadewch i mi fynd yn ôl i'r pwynt cynharach: fe wnaethoch chi ddweud eich bod chi am roi'r seilwaith yn ei le yn gyntaf ac yna edrych ar y gwasanaethau. Wyddoch chi, sefyllfa'r iâr a'r ŵy yw hon. Rydyn ni wedi bod yn ceisio'r dull hwn o, 'Gadewch i ni ymdrin â'r broblem draffig hon gyda ffordd osgoi; gadewch i ni ymdrin â'r broblem draffig hon gyda lôn ychwanegol' am 70 mlynedd, a'r hyn mae wedi'i wneud, fel mae'r adolygiad ffyrdd yn ei wneud yn glir, yw cynhyrchu teithio ychwanegol, ac wedyn, mae ffyrdd yn llenwi ac mae mwy o dagfeydd ac yna mae gennych chi fwy o fuddsoddiad. Felly, nid oes byth unrhyw arian i ariannu'r dewisiadau amgen. Ar ryw adeg, mae'n rhaid i ni dorri'r cylch hwn i'n rhoi ni mewn modd addas i'r diben gyda'r targedau hinsawdd rydych chi a minnau wedi dweud yn gyhoeddus ein bod ni'n eu cefnogi, oherwydd dydy cefnogi'r targed yn dda i ddim os nad ydych chi'n cefnogi'r camau sydd eu hangen.