English: Diolch, Dirprwy Llywydd. I move the amendment in Caroline's name. I thank the Member for his speech. I thought he spoke in a very, very measured way. Others say that he may be playing politics. I think that phrase is often used either when groups are divided amongst themselves as to their position or when a Member's own position diverges, perhaps, from those that they represent, and I think, perhaps, the leader of Plaid Cymru may have touched both those issues today. For our group, we are clear - we've moved our own amendment. Firstly, we want to note the report of the expert panel on Assembly electoral reform. Even though we may not be able to support it, even at the lower end of the range of AMs that the panel gave, I'm very appreciative of the work that Professor Laura McAllister and her esteemed colleagues did, and I would like to put on record our thanks, and I'm sure I speak for others in that. Our second point is to believe that there is no appetite amongst the voting public to increase the number of politicians in Wales at this time. We simply believe that is true. It may be that Members want to increase the number. It may be that Members come up with particular arguments, and some of them may be good arguments for doing so, but there is no appetite amongst our constituents for doing this. I'll try and explain why there's no appetite; it's that increase in the number of politicians that I think particularly jars. We bring out a bit of this in the two sub-points of point 2. We'd like to see the 2018 review of parliamentary constituencies at the Westminster level enacted. I don't know what Plaid's position on it is. At the moment, Wales is very over-represented at Westminster. Perhaps they'd like it to be even more over-represented. But I think when we have devolution it is difficult - [ Interruption.] They don't want us to be there at all. They sometimes hide that, but not today - the unambiguous support for independence that the First Minister noted yesterday. I think in population terms, Wales would have 29 seats rather than 40 in the House of Commons. That's what the parliamentary review they had said, but it doesn't seem to be being enacted. So, that would be 11 Members reduced. Then, we're meant to be leaving the European Union; that would lead to four MEPs losing their positions. So, 15 politicians in all no longer paid by the public purse. And in that scenario, Members may wish to put their arguments again and we will engage with those arguments. But at the moment, there is no appetite for expanding the size of this place, and that is partly because we've too many MPs at Westminster and we've MEPs in the European Parliament when we voted three years ago to leave. The argument that Adam made was that we were small in size to begin and weak in powers, and as we have developed more powers, we should therefore have more people. But surely a corollary of that argument is the institutions from which we've taken power - i.e. Westminster and our representation there and also prospectively, I hope, the European Union - should see those numbers reduced. That has not happened, yet we have this urgency to do this by 2021, potentially before that happens. I think that's what makes this a very difficult motion for him to put forward and why he won't be finding the support from perhaps others in the Chamber that he would hope for. I also finally just draw attention to the situation with local government. I think twice, perhaps three times, Labour have sought to reduce the number of councils across Wales. There are quite strong arguments for why they should do that, but each time they have pulled back and we still have these 22 councils that are much smaller on average than councils in the other nations of the United Kingdom. We have these costs for all those 22 councils, many replicated 22 times. If you had less councils, if you had less councillors, as well as -
Welsh: Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n cynnig y gwelliant yn enw Caroline. Diolch i'r Aelod am ei araith. Roeddwn i'n meddwl ei fod wedi siarad mewn ffordd bwyllog tu hwnt. Mae eraill yn dweud y gallai fod yn chwarae gwleidyddiaeth. Credaf fod yr ymadrodd hwnnw'n cael ei ddefnyddio'n aml naill ai pan fo grwpiau'n rhanedig ymysg eu hunain o ran eu safbwynt neu pan fydd safbwynt yr Aelod ei hun yn wahanol, efallai, i safbwynt y rhai y maent yn eu cynrychioli, a chredaf fod arweinydd Plaid Cymru wedi cyffwrdd â'r ddau heddiw o bosibl. I'n grŵp ni, rydym yn glir - rydym wedi cynnig ein gwelliant ein hunain. Yn gyntaf, rydym am nodi adroddiad panel arbenigol y Cynulliad ar ddiwygio etholiadol. Er na fyddwn yn gallu ei gefnogi o bosibl, hyd yn oed pen isaf yr ystod o ACau a roddodd y Panel, rwy'n werthfawrogol iawn o'r gwaith a wnaeth yr Athro Laura McAllister a'i chyd-Aelodau uchel eu parch, a hoffwn gofnodi ein diolch, ac rwy'n siŵr fy mod yn siarad dros eraill yn hynny o beth. Ein hail bwynt yw ein bod o'r farn nad oes awydd ymhlith y cyhoedd sy'n pleidleisio i gynyddu nifer y gwleidyddion yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd. Yn syml, credwn fod hynny'n wir. Efallai fod yr Aelodau am gynyddu'r nifer. Efallai fod yr Aelodau'n cyflwyno dadleuon penodol, ac efallai fod rhai ohonynt yn ddadleuon da dros wneud hynny, ond nid oes awydd ymhlith ein hetholwyr i wneud hyn. Fe geisiaf egluro pam nad oes awydd i wneud hynny; y cynnydd yn nifer y gwleidyddion sy'n fwyaf o dân ar eu crwyn yn fy marn i. Rydym yn ymhelaethu rhywfaint ar hyn yn y ddau is-bwynt ym mhwynt 2. Hoffem weld adolygiad 2018 o etholaethau seneddol ar lefel San Steffan yn cael ei weithredu. Nid wyf yn gwybod beth yw safbwynt Plaid Cymru ar hynny. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gan Gymru gynrychiolaeth rhy fawr yn San Steffan. Efallai yr hoffent iddi gael ei gorgynrychioli hyd yn oed yn fwy. Ond rwy'n meddwl pan fydd gennym ddatganoli mae'n anodd - [ Torri ar draws.] Nid ydynt eisiau i ni fod yno o gwbl. Maent yn cuddio hynny weithiau, ond nid heddiw - y gefnogaeth ddiamwys i annibyniaeth a nododd y Prif Weinidog ddoe. O ran poblogaeth, rwy'n credu y byddai gan Gymru 29 sedd yn hytrach na 40 yn Nhŷ'r Cyffredin. Dyna a ddywedai'r adolygiad seneddol a gawsant, ond nid yw'n ymddangos fel pe bai'n mynd i gael ei weithredu. Felly, byddai hynny'n golygu 11 Aelod yn llai. Yna, rydym i fod i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd; byddai hynny'n arwain at bedwar Aelod o Senedd Ewrop yn colli eu swyddi. Felly, 15 o wleidyddion i gyd na fyddai'n cael eu talu o'r pwrs cyhoeddus mwyach. Ac yn y senario honno, efallai yr hoffai'r Aelodau gyflwyno eu dadleuon eto ac y byddwn yn gwrando ar y dadleuon hynny. Ond ar hyn o bryd, nid oes awydd i ehangu maint y lle hwn, ac mae hynny'n rhannol oherwydd bod gennym ormod o ASau yn San Steffan ac mae gennym ASEau yn Senedd Ewrop a ninnau wedi pleidleisio tair blynedd yn ôl i adael. Y ddadl a wnaeth Adam oedd ein bod yn fach o ran maint ar y dechrau ac yn wan o ran pwerau, ac wrth inni ddatblygu mwy o bwerau, dylem gael mwy o bobl. Ond does bosibl mai canlyneb y ddadl honno yw y dylai'r sefydliadau yr ydym wedi cymryd grym oddi wrthynt - h.y. San Steffan a'n cynrychiolaeth yn y fan honno a'r Undeb Ewropeaidd yn y dyfodol, gobeithio - weld y niferoedd hynny'n gostwng. Nid yw hynny wedi digwydd, ac eto cawn y brys hwn i'w wneud erbyn 2021, cyn i hynny ddigwydd o bosibl. Rwy'n credu mai dyna sy'n gwneud hwn yn gynnig anodd iawn iddo ei gyflwyno a pham na fydd yn cael y gefnogaeth y byddai'n gobeithio ei chael gan eraill yn y Siambr. Rwy'n tynnu sylw i orffen hefyd at y sefyllfa gyda llywodraeth leol. Rwy'n meddwl bod Llafur wedi ceisio lleihau nifer y cynghorau yng Nghymru ddwywaith, efallai dair gwaith. Ceir dadleuon eithaf cryf o blaid gwneud hynny, ond bob tro maent wedi cilio rhag ei wneud ac mae gennym 22 cyngor o hyd sy'n llawer llai ar gyfartaledd na chynghorau yng ngwledydd eraill y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae gennym gostau ar gyfer pob un o'r 22 cyngor, a llawer ohonynt yn cael eu hailadrodd 22 o weithiau. Pe bai gennych lai o gynghorau, pe bai gennych lai o gynghorwyr, yn ogystal â -