English: I don't think it's a lack of curiosity. I have been an elected politician for a very long time, and I have got to tell you that I had never heard of them. So, I don't think that I am atypical. I think that you guys are the atypical people. I think that what's important - [Interruption.] Well, go and do a straw poll of the people just walking down the street, and I can tell you that I would be very surprised - . I held a meeting recently with about 150 people who were pretty angry with what was going on in their local community, and they had no idea that the community health councils exist. I'm not saying that this is about - . I'm saying that they need resources, sometimes, to allow them to get out there and to speak to the public. So, they do need help in terms of communicating with the public. I don't think that their transparency and their accountability to the public, and their ability to stand up for the public in relation to the health service, is as clear as it perhaps could be. I think they should be properly resourced, so that the public are aware of them, and that it's a channel for them to have their say. In principle, I think that we do need a forum for local patients' voice and an independent complaints advocacy service. My fear is that if we don't have a mechanism to file complaints, I believe that in this day and age, what we are likely to see is a free-for-all on social media, where patients could be whipped into a frenzy and where individual health workers could be vilified. That's the situation that I think we have got to avoid at all costs. But, I think there are elements of the work that CHCs currently undertake that, in a new structure - or in an enhanced role for community health councils - should be made with the designs and needs of Welsh patients in mind. I think the formal relationship with local health boards is something that must be built on, and it's difficult to envisage how a national approach to a citizens' voice advocacy service could work locally. I have examples where CHCs in my area are co-designing services with the health board, supporting service change, and working with people through communicating changes to service delivery. The ability of CHCs to intervene as people are receiving their treatment is also invaluable, and I think it makes sense that we've got to try and change services for the better, even while patients are undergoing treatment, and a retrospective approach, whilst valuable, is likely to undermine individual patient confidence. Just because Government and health boards think geographically, in terms of lines on maps, it doesn't mean that patients do, and we must take the stress of understanding health configurations away from patients, and that's particularly important when we're talking about sharing services with England. I think it's extremely useful for CHCs, if they are dissatisfied with the response of the health board, to be able to refer that decision to Welsh Government Ministers, and I think we've all learned by now that it is not possible, or correct, for us to duck and avoid political responsibility. I think this is simply a part of a genuine consultation process - I certainly hope that it is. My understanding is that CHCs are not looking for more time to consult on this issue, and whilst we should look to other parts of the UK for best practice, it's important to note that the Scottish model, as Rhun referred to, has also received criticism. So, I hope that by working together, the Welsh Government, the individual health boards and the existing CHCs can design an organisation that supports patients and the delivery of excellent health and care services that the people of Wales can and should expect.
Welsh: Nid wyf yn credu mai diffyg chwilfrydedd ydyw. Rwyf wedi bod yn wleidydd etholedig ers amser hir iawn, ac mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud wrthych nad oeddwn i erioed wedi clywed amdanynt. Felly, nid wyf yn meddwl fy mod yn annodweddiadol. Rwy'n credu mai chi yw'r bobl annodweddiadol. Rwy'n meddwl mai'r hyn sy'n bwysig - [Torri ar draws.] Wel, ewch i wneud arolwg brys o bobl ar y stryd, a gallaf ddweud wrthych y byddwn yn synnu'n fawr iawn - . Cynhaliais gyfarfod yn ddiweddar gydag oddeutu 150 o bobl a oedd yn ddig iawn ynglŷn â'r hyn oedd yn digwydd yn eu cymuned leol, ac nid oedd ganddynt hwy unrhyw syniad fod y cynghorau iechyd cymuned yn bodoli. Nid wyf yn dweud bod hyn yn ymwneud â - . Rwy'n dweud eu bod angen adnoddau, weithiau, i ganiatáu iddynt fynd allan i siarad â'r cyhoedd. Felly, mae angen help arnynt o ran cyfathrebu â'r cyhoedd. Nid wyf yn credu bod eu tryloywder a'u hatebolrwydd i'r cyhoedd, a'u gallu i sefyll ar ran y cyhoedd mewn perthynas â'r gwasanaeth iechyd, mor glir ag y gallai fod, o bosibl. Rwy'n credu y dylent gael yr adnoddau priodol, fel bod y cyhoedd yn ymwybodol ohonynt, a'i fod yn gyfrwng iddynt gael dweud eu barn. Mewn egwyddor, credaf fod arnom angen fforwm ar gyfer rhoi llais i gleifion lleol a gwasanaeth eiriolaeth cwynion annibynnol. Os nad oes gennym system ar gyfer ffeilio cwynion, yn yr oes sydd ohoni ofnaf mai'r hyn yr ydym yn debygol o'i weld yw dadl agored ar gyfryngau cymdeithasol, lle y gallai cleifion gael eu cynhyrfu'n lân a lle y gallai gweithwyr iechyd unigol gael eu difrïo. Dyna'r sefyllfa y credaf fod yn rhaid i ni ei hosgoi ar bob cyfrif. Ond rwy'n credu bod yna elfennau o'r gwaith y mae cynghorau iechyd cymuned yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd y dylid ei wneud mewn strwythur newydd - neu mewn rôl ehangach ar gyfer cynghorau iechyd cymuned - gyda chynlluniau ac anghenion cleifion Cymru mewn golwg. Rwy'n meddwl bod y berthynas ffurfiol gyda byrddau iechyd lleol yn rhywbeth sy'n rhaid adeiladu arno, ac mae'n anodd dychmygu sut y gallai dull cenedlaethol o weithredu gwasanaeth eiriolaeth i lais dinasyddion weithio'n lleol. Mae gennyf enghreifftiau lle mae CICau yn fy ardal yn cydgynllunio gwasanaethau gyda'r bwrdd iechyd, gan gefnogi newid gwasanaethau, a gweithio gyda phobl drwy gyfathrebu newidiadau i'r modd y darparir gwasanaethau. Mae gallu CICau i ymyrryd wrth i bobl gael eu triniaeth yn werthfawr iawn hefyd, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn gwneud synnwyr fod yn rhaid inni geisio newid gwasanaethau er gwell, hyd yn oed wrth i gleifion gael triniaeth, ac er bod ymagwedd ôl-weithredol yn werthfawr, mae'n debygol o danseilio hyder cleifion unigol. Nid yw'r ffaith fod Llywodraeth a byrddau iechyd yn meddwl yn ddaearyddol, mewn llinellau ar fapiau, yn golygu bod cleifion yn gwneud hynny, ac mae'n rhaid i ni gael gwared ar y straen i gleifion o ddeall cyfluniadau iechyd, ac mae hynny'n arbennig o bwysig pan fyddwn yn sôn am rannu gwasanaethau â Lloegr. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn hynod o ddefnyddiol i gynghorau iechyd cymuned, os ydynt yn anfodlon ag ymateb y bwrdd iechyd, eu bod yn gallu cyfeirio'r penderfyniad hwnnw at Weinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru, ac rwy'n meddwl bod pawb ohonom wedi dysgu bellach nad yw'n bosibl nac yn gywir inni osgoi cyfrifoldeb gwleidyddol. Rwy'n credu mai rhan yn unig o broses ymgynghori go iawn yw hon - rwy'n sicr yn gobeithio hynny. Fy nealltwriaeth i yw nad yw cynghorau iechyd cymuned yn chwilio am ragor o amser i ymgynghori ar y mater hwn, ac er y dylem edrych ar rannau eraill o'r DU i weld arferion gorau ar waith, mae'n bwysig nodi bod model yr Alban, fel y nododd Rhun, wedi wynebu beirniadaeth hefyd. Felly, drwy weithio gyda'i gilydd, rwy'n gobeithio y gall Llywodraeth Cymru, y byrddau iechyd unigol a'r CICau presennol lunio sefydliad sy'n cefnogi cleifion ac yn darparu gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal ardderchog y gall pobl Cymru eu disgwyl ac y dylent eu cael.