English: I'm very familiar with the report of the Wales Governance Centre to which Helen Mary Jones refers, and a very useful addition it was to the developing literature on what Wales should seek in relation to the benefits system. I take a different view, I suspect, to the Member. I'm in favour of seeking aspects of the administration of the welfare benefit system; I am not in favour of breaking up the UK's social security system. That's because I think that the United Kingdom offers a different opportunity to pool resources and share out rewards according to need, and that that is to the benefit of Welsh citizens, particularly our poorest Welsh citizens. The Wales Governance Centre report did say, as Helen Mary Jones says, that if we were offered devolution on the same basis as Scotland, that could lead to the sums of money the report identified. The report went on to say that it was highly unlikely that devolution on those terms would be offered to us, and set out the reasons why. So, I think it's important to provide a complete account of what that report said, and I'm afraid I agree with the report. It's very unlikely that the UK Government would be prepared to repeat the sort of deal that they offered to Scotland, partly because they now regret that they did so. Devolution of the administration of benefits is something that I've previously agreed with Helen Mary Jones about and I'm happy to repeat that, because I think that would give us a different set of possibilities in Wales without breaking up the access of Welsh people to the advantages that come by being part of that wider social security system.
Welsh: Rwy'n gyfarwydd iawn ag adroddiad Canolfan Llywodraethiant Cymru y mae Helen Mary Jones yn cyfeirio ato, ac roedd yn ychwanegiad defnyddiol iawn at y llenyddiaeth ddatblygol ar yr hyn y dylai Cymru ei geisio o ran y system fudd-daliadau. Rwy'n amau bod gen i farn wahanol i'r Aelod. Rwyf i o blaid ceisio agweddau ar weinyddu'r system budd-daliadau lles; nid wyf i o blaid chwalu system nawdd cymdeithasol y DU. Y rheswm am hynny yw fy mod i'n credu bod y Deyrnas Unedig yn cynnig gwahanol gyfle i gyfuno adnoddau a rhannu gwobrau yn ôl yr angen, a bod hynny er budd dinasyddion Cymru, yn enwedig ein dinasyddion tlotaf yng Nghymru. Dywedodd adroddiad Canolfan Llywodraethiant Cymru, fel y dywed Helen Mary Jones, pe byddem ni'n cael cynnig datganoli ar yr un sail â'r Alban, y gallai hynny arwain at y symiau o arian a nodwyd gan yr adroddiad. Aeth yr adroddiad ymlaen i ddweud ei bod hi'n annhebygol iawn y byddai datganoli ar y telerau hynny yn cael ei gynnig i ni, ac yn nodi'r rhesymau am hynny. Felly, rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig rhoi cyfrif cyflawn o'r hyn yr oedd yr adroddiad hwnnw yn ei ddweud, ac mae gen i ofn fy mod i'n cytuno â'r adroddiad. Mae'n annhebygol iawn y byddai Llywodraeth y DU yn barod i ailadrodd y math o gytundeb a gynigiwyd ganddi i'r Alban, yn rhannol oherwydd eu bod nhw'n edifar eu bod nhw wedi gwneud hynny erbyn hyn. Mae datganoli'r broses o weinyddu budd-daliadau yn rhywbeth yr wyf i wedi cytuno â Helen Mary Jones yn ei gylch yn y gorffennol ac rwy'n hapus i ailadrodd hynny, oherwydd fy mod i'n credu y byddai hynny yn rhoi gwahanol gyfres o bosibiliadau i ni yng Nghymru heb chwalu mynediad pobl Cymru at y manteision a ddaw drwy fod yn rhan o'r system nawdd cymdeithasol ehangach honno.