English: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Well, when we all stood for election in UKIP 18 months or so ago, we said we were coming to this Assembly in order to confront the Cardiff Bay consensus, and I think the debate this afternoon shows that there is a role for a party like UKIP that will do that. We have been graced in this debate unusually by the Llywydd, who's added lustre to what we've all had to say, and I appreciate her position in doing so, not wishing to pre-empt the decision of the Welsh people. But that's really ultimately what this motion is all about: whether the Welsh people themselves are to be allowed to make this ultimate decision. When Gareth Bennett opened his speech - I won't comment on certain of his recommendations - but I'm sure everybody will agree that I like to allow heterodox opinions to flourish within my group. But on the two basic principles of his speech - that the Welsh people will certainly be concerned about the costs that have mushroomed since 1997, when it was forecast that this would cost us about £10 million a year - . The Assembly now spends about £54 million pounds a year. So, that's a significant sum of money and increasing the size of it, of course, would increase the cost. But the most important principle is the principle of consent that Gareth Bennett focused upon. I know that some Members of this house are very keen on referenda in certain circumstances to reverse other referenda, but I think if we are to be honest with ourselves, the public at large doesn't really regard this institution with the kind of respect that we all know it deserves. There was never really any full-hearted consent in the first place for its creation. I don't in any way want to detract from the devolution settlement that I've become increasingly enthusiastic about, actually, over the years. As a result of my immersion in the debates of this place, I've seen the merits of it, and I certainly - as I've said many times in this house - believe in bringing Government closer to the people and also in having competition between the various jurisdictions of the United Kingdom. I think that's a very good thing for government and democracy in general. So, I'm not - as Caroline Jones said in her speech - ideologically opposed to increasing the size of the Assembly. Certainly, in terms of the internal workings of the Assembly, I think there is certainly a very good case for that, and, as I think Angela Burns pointed out earlier on this afternoon, to increase the number of backbenchers in the Labour Party, for example, where perhaps that might lead to greater heterodox opinions within their own party as well, and Lee Waters might not then, perhaps, be quite so concerned about having to step outside the stockade on issues like the M4. That would be a very good thing for the workings of this institution and representative democracy, which we embody. But I do believe that we need to make the case and carry the people with us. One of the reasons why I was in favour of having a referendum on the EU was not only because I wanted to get out of the EU, but because when we first went into it, the then prime minister, Edward Heath, said that it would not happen without the full-hearted consent of Parliament and people. Well, it did have the tepid support of Parliament because at the time, the majorities were reduced to single figures as the European Communities Bill went through the House of Commons, but it never had the full-hearted consent of the people of this country, as a result of which, over the last 40 years, the European Union has always remained a matter of controversy. And I think that if the Welsh Assembly is the confident body that I believe it to be, then it shouldn't be afraid of seeking the decision of the people on whether we should increase its size. We know that in the last referendum there was a promise that we should not devolve taxing powers to the Assembly, and that promise was broken. I, personally, am in favour of the devolution of income tax to the Assembly and, indeed, other taxes too, but as we had promised the people that that wouldn't happen without another vote, I think it was a betrayal of trust that it didn't occur. And I do believe that if we are to increase the size of this Assembly, we must carry the people with us and seek their opinion in a meaningful vote. I can't see any democratic reason why that shouldn't be acceptable to all the other Members of this Assembly. It is vital, I think, that we increase the interest of the people in the Assembly. I think it's quite astonishing that half the people of Wales have no idea that the national health service is administered in Wales by the Welsh Government rather than by Jeremy Hunt and his friends at Westminster. We have a great deal more to do to increase the civic awareness of the Assembly and the legitimacy of what we do in the minds - [ Interruption.] Yes, I'll certainly give way.
Welsh: Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Wel, pan oedd pawb ohonom yn sefyll etholiad yn UKIP 18 mis neu fwy yn ôl, fe ddywedasom ein bod yn dod i'r Cynulliad hwn er mwyn mynd i'r afael â chonsensws Bae Caerdydd, ac rwy'n meddwl bod y ddadl y prynhawn yma'n dangos bod yna rôl i blaid fel UKIP a fydd yn gwneud hynny. Rydym wedi cael y pleser anarferol o gyfraniad y Llywydd yn y ddadl hon, sydd wedi ychwanegu llewyrch at yr hyn a oedd gennym oll i'w ddweud, ac rwy'n gwerthfawrogi ei safbwynt yn gwneud hynny, nad yw hi am achub y blaen ar benderfyniad pobl Cymru. Ond ymwneud â hynny y mae'r cynnig hwn yn y pen draw: a yw pobl Cymru eu hunain i gael eu caniatáu i wneud y penderfyniad terfynol. Pan agorodd Gareth Bennett ei araith - nid wyf am wneud sylwadau ar rai o'i argymhellion - ond rwy'n siŵr y bydd pawb yn cytuno fy mod yn awyddus i ganiatáu i safbwyntiau anuniongred ffynnu yn fy ngrŵp. Ond ar ddwy egwyddor sylfaenol ei araith - y bydd pobl Cymru yn sicr yn pryderu am y costau sydd wedi chwyddo ers 1997, pan ragwelwyd y byddai hyn y n costio tua £10 miliwn y flwyddyn i ni - . Mae'r Cynulliad bellach yn gwario tua £54 miliwn o bunnoedd y flwyddyn. Felly, mae hwnnw'n swm sylweddol o arian a byddai cynyddu ei faint, wrth gwrs, yn cynyddu ei gost. Ond yr egwyddor bwysicaf yw'r egwyddor cydsyniad y canolbwyntiodd Gareth Bennett arni. Gwn fod rhai o Aelodau'r tŷ hwn yn awyddus iawn i gael refferenda mewn rhai amgylchiadau i wrthdroi refferenda eraill, ond os ydym yn onest, credaf nad yw'r cyhoedd yn gyffredinol yn ystyried y sefydliad hwn gyda'r math o barch y mae pawb ohonom yn credu ei fod yn ei haeddu. Ni fu erioed cydsyniad gwirioneddol dwymgalon ynghylch ei greu yn y lle cyntaf. Nid wyf am fychanu dim ar y setliad datganoli yr wyf wedi dod yn fwyfwy brwdfrydig yn ei gylch, mewn gwirionedd, dros y blynyddoedd. O ganlyniad i fy rhan yn nadleuon y lle hwn, rwyf wedi gweld ei rinweddau, ac yn sicr - fel rwyf wedi dweud droeon yn y tŷ hwn - rwy'n credu mewn dod â'r Llywodraeth yn agosach at y bobl a chael cystadleuaeth hefyd rhwng gwahanol awdurdodaethau y Deyrnas Unedig. Credaf fod hynny'n beth da iawn i lywodraeth a democratiaeth yn gyffredinol. Felly, nid wyf - fel y dywedodd Caroline Jones yn ei haraith - yn gwrthwynebu cynyddu maint y Cynulliad o ran ideoleg. Yn sicr, o ran gwaith mewnol y Cynulliad, credaf fod yna'n sicr achos da iawn dros hynny, ac fel y nododd Angela Burns, rwy'n meddwl, yn gynharach y prynhawn yma, dros gynyddu nifer yr Aelodau meinciau cefn yn y Blaid Lafur, er enghraifft, lle y gallai hynny arwain efallai at fwy o safbwyntiau anuniongred yn eu plaid eu hunain yn ogystal, ac efallai na fyddai Lee Waters, wedyn, lawn mor bryderus ynglŷn â gorfod camu y tu allan i'r ffens ar faterion fel yr M4. Byddai hynny'n beth da iawn i waith y sefydliad hwn a'r ddemocratiaeth gynrychioladol a ymgorfforir gennym. Ond rwy'n credu bod angen i ni wneud yr achos a chario'r bobl gyda ni. Un o'r rhesymau pam roeddwn o blaid cael refferendwm ar yr UE oedd, nid yn unig oherwydd fy mod eisiau dod allan o'r UE, ond oherwydd fod y Prif Weinidog, Edward Heath, wedi dweud pan aethom i mewn gyntaf, na fyddai'n digwydd heb gydsyniad brwd y Senedd a'r bobl. Wel, fe gafodd gefnogaeth lugoer y Senedd oherwydd ar y pryd, roedd y mwyafrifoedd yn y ffigurau sengl wrth i Fil y Cymunedau Ewropeaidd wneud ei ffordd drwy Dŷ'r Cyffredin, ond ni chafodd erioed gydsyniad brwd pobl y wlad, a chanlyniad hynny, dros y 40 mlynedd diwethaf, yw bod yr Undeb Ewropeaidd bob amser wedi bod yn fater dadleuol. Ac os yw'r Cynulliad yn gorff hyderus fel y credaf ei fod, yna ni ddylai ofni gofyn am benderfyniad y bobl ynglŷn ag a ddylem gynyddu ei faint. Gwyddom fod yna addewid yn y refferendwm diwethaf na ddylem ddatganoli pwerau trethu i'r Cynulliad, a thorrwyd yr addewid hwnnw. Yn bersonol, rwyf o blaid datganoli treth incwm i'r Cynulliad a threthi eraill hefyd yn wir, ond gan ein bod wedi addo i'r bobl na fyddai hynny'n digwydd heb bleidlais arall, credaf mai bradychu ymddiriedaeth oedd na ddigwyddodd hynny. Ac os ydym i gynyddu maint y Cynulliad hwn, rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid inni gario pobl gyda ni a gofyn am eu barn mewn pleidlais ystyrlon. Ni allaf weld unrhyw reswm democrataidd pam na ddylai hynny fod yn dderbyniol i holl Aelodau eraill y Cynulliad. Mae'n hanfodol, rwy'n meddwl, ein bod yn cynyddu diddordeb pobl yn y Cynulliad. Credaf ei bod yn rhyfeddol nad yw hanner pobl Cymru ag unrhyw syniad fod y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn cael ei weinyddu yng Nghymru gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn hytrach na chan Jeremy Hunt a'i gyfeillion yn San Steffan. Mae gennym lawer mwy i'w wneud i gynyddu ymwybyddiaeth ddinesig y Cynulliad a dilysrwydd yr hyn a wnawn ym meddyliau - [ Torri ar draws.] Iawn, yn sicr fe wnaf i ildio.