English: So, just on that last point, we have been discussing with industry and industry representatives having some kind of licensing scheme. We're very keen to work with the UK Government on that, though, because lots of people in this kind of industry across the board are very regulated and they're very anxious not to have to comply with two different regulatory regimes. But we are very keen on getting a licence scheme going. My colleague Mike Hedges has been involved in a couple of social media arguments about whether you can call yourself a particular type of trade without any qualifications and so on, and I think we've got to move to a situation where, actually, you aren't able to do that because there are some professional standards to be met, and that's for all kinds of reasons, not just for retrofit: so, that you can't, you know, have somebody knock on your door and offer to fix your roof if you can't check what their qualifications might be to do that. So, I completely agree with that and we're exploring with local authorities ways that we can use their approved lists to give people reassurance about contractors and so on. So, I very much take that on board. But here we have a situation where we actually have almost no skill in this area anyway, so we'll have to develop it anew. There are huge opportunities here. I think Llyr said, didn't he, 'Don't think about the cost of it; think of the cost of not doing it.' Well, that's absolutely right. But also there are opportunity costs here. So, we can make an industry out of this and we can make Wales the centre of it if we do it fast enough and in the right way. So, I completely agree with that. But we do have to make sure that we start in the right place with the right experts and we start where we can do things and we get the right research going for some of the rest of it. As I said, there are some difficult decisions to be made here. So, yes, we absolutely are setting up the finance to do it; we'll have to leverage in other finance to do that. As I said, we'll have to incentivise homeowners - people lucky enough to be able to be buying or who already own their home outright, we'll need to get them to do it as well. We'll need to probably do some market intervention to make people be rewarded for - you know, if they have spent that much money on it, they need to be getting that back. We need some incentives here, and it's not just the lowering of your energy bills, is it, it's the value of your asset. It's probably the only asset most people have, so they will need to have that. And then when we do the shared equity schemes that we talked about earlier in the innovative housing programme - some of the stuff Dawn was talking about earlier up in Merthyr Valleys Homes - we'll need to make sure that people get their share of that and that we're able to spread the skills and expertise. But you can see this as a huge opportunity. You don't have to see it as a doom and gloom, my goodness. If we do it right, we can stimulate an industry here that gives employment to our communities and actually keeps the power in them as well. But we have got to get it right. That's why I wasn't hesitant about saying we'll accept them in principle, but we need to start somewhere and then build on it. So, I take whatever he says about that, but we really are not trying to fob it off. We are trying to start in the right place to get consensus to build a programme here.
Welsh: Felly, dim ond ar y pwynt olaf hwnnw, rydym ni wedi bod yn trafod gyda diwydiant a chynrychiolwyr diwydiant ryw fath o gynllun trwyddedu. Rydym ni'n awyddus iawn i weithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar hynny, fodd bynnag, gan fod llawer o bobl yn y math hwn o ddiwydiant drwyddi draw yn cael eu rheoleiddio'n llym ac maen nhw'n awyddus iawn i beidio â gorfod cydymffurfio â dwy gyfundrefn reoleiddio wahanol. Ond rydym ni'n awyddus iawn i ddechrau cynllun trwyddedu. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod Mike Hedges wedi cymryd rhan mewn cwpl o ddadleuon ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol ynghylch a allwch chi alw eich hun yn fath penodol o fasnach heb unrhyw gymwysterau ac ati, a chredaf fod yn rhaid inni symud i sefyllfa lle nad oes modd i chi wneud hynny, oherwydd bod rhaid cyrraedd rhai safonau proffesiynol, ac mae hynny oherwydd pob math o resymau, nid ar gyfer ôl-osod yn unig: felly, ni allwch chi, wyddoch chi, gael rhywun yn curo ar eich drws ac yn cynnig trwsio eich to os na allwch chi wirio pa gymwysterau sydd ganddyn nhw i wneud hynny. Felly, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hynny ac rydym ni yn archwilio, gydag awdurdodau lleol, ffyrdd y gallwn ni ddefnyddio eu rhestrau cymeradwy i roi sicrwydd i bobl am gontractwyr ac ati. Felly, rwyf wir yn derbyn hynny. Ond mae gennym ni sefyllfa yma lle nad oes gennym fawr ddim sgil yn y maes hwn beth bynnag, felly bydd yn rhaid i ni ei ddatblygu o'r newydd. Mae cyfleoedd enfawr yma. Rwy'n credu i fod Llyr ddweud, oni wnaeth ef, 'Peidiwch â meddwl am y gost; meddyliwch am y gost o beidio â'i wneud.' Wel, mae hynny'n hollol iawn. Ond hefyd mae costau cyfleoedd yma. Felly, gallwn ni wneud diwydiant o hyn a gallwn ni roi Cymru wrth ei ganol os ydym ni yn ei wneud yn ddigon cyflym ac yn y ffordd gywir. Felly, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â hynny. Ond mae'n rhaid i ni wneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n dechrau yn y lle cywir gyda'r arbenigwyr cywir ac rydym ni'n dechrau lle y mae'n bosibl i ni wneud pethau ac rydym ni'n sicrhau bod yr ymchwil cywir ar ben ffordd ar gyfer rhywfaint o'r gweddill. Fel y dywedais, mae rhai penderfyniadau anodd i'w gwneud yma. Felly, ydym, rydym ni yn bendant yn sefydlu'r cyllid i wneud hynny; bydd yn rhaid i ni drosoli cyllid arall i wneud hynny. Fel y dywedais, bydd yn rhaid inni gymell perchenogion tai - pobl sy'n ddigon ffodus i allu prynu neu sydd eisoes yn berchen ar eu cartref yn llwyr, bydd angen inni eu cael nhw i wneud hynny hefyd. Mae'n debyg y bydd angen inni ymyrryd rhywfaint yn y farchnad i sicrhau bod pobl yn cael eu gwobrwyo am - wyddoch chi, os ydyn nhw wedi gwario cymaint â hynny o arian arno, bydd angen iddyn nhw ei gael yn ôl. Mae angen rhai cymhellion arnom ni yma, ac nid gostwng eich biliau ynni yn unig yw hyn, ond gwerth eich ased. Mae'n debyg mai dyma'r unig ased sydd gan y rhan fwyaf o bobl, felly bydd angen iddyn nhw gael hwnnw. Ac yna pan fyddwn yn gwneud y cynlluniau rhannu ecwiti y gwnaethom sôn amdanyn nhw yn gynharach yn y rhaglen tai arloesol - rhai o'r pethau yr oedd Dawn yn sôn amdanyn nhw yn gynharach yng Nghartrefi Cymoedd Merthyr - bydd angen inni sicrhau bod pobl yn cael eu cyfran nhw o hynny a'n bod yn gallu lledaenu'r sgiliau a'r arbenigedd. Ond fe allwch chi weld hyn fel cyfle enfawr. Nid oes rhaid i chi ei weld fel gofid a gwae, bobol bach. Os gwnawn ni hynny'n iawn, gallwn ni ysgogi diwydiant yn y fan yma sy'n rhoi cyflogaeth i'n cymunedau ac sydd wir yn cadw'r grym ynddyn nhw hefyd. Ond mae'n rhaid i ni wneud pethau'n iawn. Dyna pam nad oeddwn i yn petruso cyn dweud y byddwn i yn eu derbyn mewn egwyddor, ond mae angen i ni ddechrau yn rhywle ac yna adeiladu arno. Felly, rwy'n cymryd beth bynnag a ddywedir ganddo am hynny, ond nid ydym ni yn ceisio ei ddiystyru. Rydym ni yn ceisio dechrau yn y lle cywir er mwyn cael consensws i ddatblygu rhaglen yma.