English: I think we hear a lot of rhetoric from the UK Government, Mark, but it's not always evidenced in practice. Yes, there may be individual examples, but we want to see a consistent approach, in terms of policing and criminal justice, that moves on to that more, what I would say, progressive and enlightened territory that we've already heard about in this debate today, which I think is badly needed. I know, for example, from providers of drug and alcohol misuse services, that they feel that they are trying to serve two masters, as it were, in Wales. They've got the Home Office, and Home Office policies on illicit drugs, for example, which are very much about criminalisation and the criminal justice route, and then they've got Welsh Government policies, which are much more health-orientated and about prevention and treatment. It's not easy to serve two masters in that way, and I know those who provide those crucial drug and alcohol misuse services feel that they're not operating to maximum efficiency and effectiveness as a result. We've got many initiatives. I know that in Newport, Positive Futures, which is run through Newport Live, the leisure trust in Newport, and seeks to work with young people and divert them from the criminal justice route, find it difficult, because they're, again, working within this non-devolved system of policing, although they're funded partly, at least, by the police and crime commissioner. Life would be much easier for them if there was a more consistent, integrated and joined-up approach. There are many regional variations across Wales, in fact, in policing, and the way that commissioning takes place jointly with the health services or not. Much of that could be better integrated and not varied across Wales if we had Welsh Government dealing with policing as well as the health service here in Wales. We've heard about domestic abuse services; that is another example. I think that that argument about a better fit between policing and devolved services if policing was devolved is very well established and recognised, and much work within the Senedd points in that direction, including work by our health committee, I think, back in 2019, when they made important recommendations about mental health in policing and police custody. I know that within Gwent the police service works very closely with mental health services. They have a team of mental health professionals trying to deal with the very acute strain that policing comes under, because police are not mental health professionals, but are, very often, faced with these mental health issues in carrying out their policing duties, and they are also trying to train their own police force to a much greater extent, as well as working with the health service. I think that fit between mental health services and policing is one that would benefit greatly if we had devolution of policing. Dirprwy Lywydd, I see that, as ever, time is short. Can I just say that I think most people would recognise that eventually policing in Wales will be devolved? It's a question of when. There are so many important benefits. The sooner that devolution takes place, the better.
Welsh: Credaf ein bod yn clywed llawer o rethreg gan Lywodraeth y DU, Mark, ond ni chafwyd tystiolaeth ymarferol ohoni bob amser. Oes, efallai fod enghreifftiau unigol, ond rydym am weld dull o weithredu cyson ym maes plismona a chyfiawnder troseddol, sy'n symud ymlaen at yr hyn y byddwn yn ei alw'n dir blaengar a goleuedig fel yr ydym eisoes wedi clywed amdano yn y ddadl hon heddiw, a chredaf fod gwir angen hynny. Rwy'n gwybod gan ddarparwyr gwasanaethau camddefnyddio cyffuriau ac alcohol, er enghraifft, eu bod yn teimlo eu bod yn ceisio gwasanaethu dau feistr, fel petai, yng Nghymru. Mae ganddynt y Swyddfa Gartref, a pholisïau'r Swyddfa Gartref ar gyffuriau anghyfreithlon, er enghraifft, sy'n ymwneud yn helaeth â throseddoli a'r llwybr cyfiawnder troseddol, ac mae ganddynt bolisïau Llywodraeth Cymru, sy'n ymwneud llawer mwy ag iechyd ac atal a thrin. Nid yw'n hawdd gwasanaethu dau feistr yn y ffordd honno, ac rwy'n gwybod bod y rhai sy'n darparu gwasanaethau camddefnyddio cyffuriau ac alcohol hanfodol yn teimlo nad ydynt yn gweithredu mor effeithlon ac effeithiol â phosibl o ganlyniad i hynny. Mae gennym lawer o gynlluniau. Gwn fod Dyfodol Cadarnhaol, sy'n gweithredu drwy Casnewydd Fyw, yr ymddiriedolaeth hamdden yng Nghasnewydd, ac sy'n ceisio gweithio gyda phobl ifanc a'u dargyfeirio oddi ar y llwybr cyfiawnder troseddol, yn ei chael hi'n anodd, oherwydd unwaith eto, gweithiant o fewn y system blismona hon nad yw wedi'i datganoli, er eu bod yn cael eu hariannu, yn rhannol o leiaf, gan y comisiynydd heddlu a throseddu. Byddai bywyd yn llawer haws iddynt pe ceid dull o weithredu mwy cyson, integredig a chydgysylltiedig. Mae llawer o amrywio rhanbarthol mewn plismona ledled Cymru, a'r ffordd y mae comisiynu'n digwydd ar y cyd â'r gwasanaethau iechyd neu beidio. Gallai llawer o hynny gael ei integreiddio'n well ac ni fyddai'n amrywio ledled Cymru pe bai Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymdrin â phlismona yn ogystal â'r gwasanaeth iechyd yma yng Nghymru. Clywsom am wasanaethau cam-drin domestig; dyna enghraifft arall. Credaf fod y ddadl am gydgysylltiad gwell rhwng plismona a gwasanaethau datganoledig pe bai plismona'n cael ei ddatganoli wedi'i hen sefydlu a'i chydnabod, ac mae llawer o waith yn y Senedd yn pwyntio i'r cyfeiriad hwnnw, gan gynnwys gwaith gan ein pwyllgor iechyd, rwy'n credu, yn ôl yn 2019, pan wnaethant argymhellion pwysig am iechyd meddwl mewn plismona ac yn nalfeydd yr heddlu. Gwn fod gwasanaeth yr heddlu yng Ngwent yn gweithio'n agos iawn gyda gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl. Mae ganddynt dîm o weithwyr iechyd meddwl proffesiynol sy'n ceisio ymdopi â'r straen ddifrifol iawn ar blismona, oherwydd nid yw'r heddlu'n weithwyr iechyd meddwl proffesiynol, ond maent yn aml iawn yn wynebu'r problemau iechyd meddwl hyn wrth gyflawni eu dyletswyddau plismona, ac maent hefyd yn ceisio hyfforddi eu heddlu eu hunain i raddau llawer mwy, yn ogystal â gweithio gyda'r gwasanaeth iechyd. Credaf fod cydgysylltiad rhwng gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl a phlismona yn un a fyddai'n elwa'n fawr pe baem yn datganoli plismona. Ddirprwy Lywydd, fel arfer rwy'n gweld bod amser yn brin. A gaf fi ddweud fy mod yn credu y byddai'r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn cydnabod y bydd plismona yng Nghymru yn cael ei ddatganoli yn y pen draw? Mae'n fater o ba bryd y bydd hynny'n digwydd. Ceir cymaint o fanteision pwysig. Gorau po gyntaf y bydd datganoli'n digwydd.