English: I'm delighted to participate in this debate, although I am not a member of the Finance Committee, but I welcome the report and the background work underpinning it, and we heard the arguments in the Government's debate yesterday. The funding system for social care - as the Chair has already outlined - is very complex indeed and it wouldn't be possible to come up with a more complex system even if you tried, as the Chair said. Having said that, it's not just a matter of money. As I said yesterday, we need to look in the round at the significant challenge of providing elder care and to try and view it from a positive perspective. We have an opportunity to create a national care system here, because I do think we need to change the structure. We need to be radical because it is going to take funding and we have to convince the public that there is a valuable system, based on a similar system to the health service. Everyone loves the health service of course, well, why not structure our care service so that it becomes more similar to our health service? Because there will be economic gains from that too, in providing jobs, salaries, training and so on and so forth, just like the workers in the health service, in those areas of Wales that find it difficult to provide jobs in the first place, and we need to develop a social care service as an economic development tool. Because the system, as Nick Ramsay said, is not sustainable at the moment. We must have some way forward and not just think about how we're going to fund an already failing system. Because, at the moment, given the financial limitations on social services within our county councils, the threshold for people to receive care is increasing annually. I see this constantly: older people facing a number of physical and social challenges, they deserve care, but they don't reach that threshold - a threshold that increases every year, the threshold to receive care free of charge from the county, because the funding simply isn't available. I know what people are saying. They're saying, 'Well, pay for it then; pay for your care privately.' That's what I hear, and we heard that yesterday. But, of course, that isn't an option for very many of our older people; they can't pay, and they go without any publicly provided care, and without any care, and the entire burden falls on the family, if you're fortunate enough to still have family nearby. That's what we sometimes forget. Why is this important? Because people are dying because of these cuts in funding and a lack of care provision. People are dying as a result of this. There was a review in The British Medical Journal in 2017 outlining the appalling situation of care in England, where social care funding has suffered a double blow. [ Interruption.] Nick.
Welsh: Rwy'n hapus iawn i gymryd rhan yn y ddadl yma er nad wyf yn aelod o'r Pwyllgor Cyllid, ond rydw i'n croesawu'r adroddiad a hefyd y gwaith cefndirol tu ôl iddo ac, wrth gwrs, fe wnaethom ni glywed y dadleuon yn ystod dadl y Llywodraeth ddoe. Mae'r system o ariannu beth sydd ar gael o dan ein system gofal cymdeithasol ni ar hyn o bryd - fel y mae'r Cadeirydd wedi ei olrhain - yn hynod gymhleth ac ni fyddai'n bosib dyfeisio system fwy cymhleth, hyd yn oed pe tasech yn trio, fel y dywedodd y Cadeirydd. Wedi dweud hynny, nid yw jest yn fater o arian. Fel y dywedais i ddoe, mae angen edrych yn gynhwysfawr ar yr her sylweddol o ddarparu gofal i'r henoed a thrio ei weld o mewn ochr bositif. Mae gennym ni gyfle i greu system gofal cymdeithasol genedlaethol yn fan hyn, achos rydw i'n credu bod angen newid y strwythur. Mae angen bod yn radical achos mae'n mynd i gymryd arian ac mae'n rhaid gallu darbwyllo'r cyhoedd bod yna system gwerth chweil, yn seiliedig ar yr un math o system â'r gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae pawb mewn cariad efo'r gwasanaeth iechyd, wel, beth am ailstrwythuro ein system gofal yr un peth â'n system gwasanaeth iechyd ni? Achos bydd yna fudd economaidd yn dod o hynny hefyd, yn darparu swyddi, cyflogau a hyfforddiant ac yn y blaen, yn union fel y gweithwyr yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, yn yr ardaloedd yna yng Nghymru sydd yn ei ffeindio hi'n anodd i gael swyddi ta beth, ac mae angen datblygu gwasanaeth gofal cymdeithasol fel datblygiad economaidd. Achos, nid yw'r system, fel y dywedodd Nick Ramsay, yn gynaliadwy ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n rhaid cael rhyw syniad ymlaen ac nid jest meddwl am sut rydym yn mynd i ariannu system sydd yn ffaelu nawr. Achos, ar hyn o bryd, oherwydd cyfyngiadau ariannol ar wasanaethau cymdeithasol ein siroedd ni, codi y mae'r trothwy i bobl dderbyn gofal cyhoeddus bob blwyddyn rŵan. Rwy'n ei weld o o hyd: pobl hŷn efo sawl her gorfforol a chymdeithasol, maen nhw'n teilyngu derbyn gofal, ond eto, nid ydyn nhw'n cyrraedd y trothwy - trothwy sydd yn codi bob blwyddyn, y trothwy i gael y gofal am ddim oddi wrth y sir, achos, yn naturiol, nid yw'r arian yna. Rydw i'n gwybod beth mae pobl yn ei ddweud: 'Aha', mae pobl yn ei ddweud, 'talwch amdano fo, felly; talwch am eich gofal yn breifat, felly.' Dyna beth rydym ni'n ei glywed, a chlywsom ni e ddoe. Ond, wrth gwrs, nid yw hynny'n opsiwn i nifer fawr o'n pobl hŷn ni; nid ydyn nhw'n gallu talu, ac maen nhw'n mynd heb ddim gofal cyhoeddus, heb ddim gofal, a'r cwbl yn syrthio ar eich teulu, os ydych chi'n ddigon ffodus i ddal cael teulu. Dyna beth rydym ni weithiau yn anghofio. Pam mae hyn yn bwysig? Wel, mae pobl yn marw achos y toriadau cyllid a diffyg darpariaeth gofal. Pobl yn marw. Bu adolygiad yn The British Medical Journal yn 2017 yn olrhain sefyllfa enbydus gofal yn Lloegr, lle mae cyllid gofal cymdeithasol wedi gorfod dioddef ergyd ddwbl. [ Torri ar draws.] Nick.