English: Deputy Presiding Officer, I had a terrible fear halfway through that contribution that the Conservative Member was going to read out the notes of every meeting that I've had over the last year, and read out from the notes of every meeting the contribution of every member in that meeting. [ Laughter. ] It could have been a very, very long session. Let me say this: we have, as the Member has indicated, shall I say, had a very long conversation with both the current chairs and the chief officers as we've moved through this process. And I have, over the last year or so, sought to develop a debate, with the chairs particularly, over the need for reform and the shape that that reform will take. I introduced the academic element to that on the basis of an attempt to shape and to allow the development of their own thoughts on some of these issues. And let me say this: this is a White Paper, and it is a White Paper that seeks views on particular proposals, but it is not a White Paper that rules out alternatives. In fact, were the Member to take the time to read the White Paper in any detail, then he would see that, in the White Paper itself, we do take the time to say that if there are other proposals, other suggestions, other recommendations for reform, then we're very happy to take that forward and to consider those additional proposals. At no time in this process have I ruled in or ruled out any alternative measures or any alternative suggestions, with the exception of a national force, a national brigade, and also a transfer of responsibility to the police and crime commissioners. Those are the two options I've ruled out, but I've not ruled out other options. If the Conservative spokesperson does have any suggestions he wishes us to consider, then I'm more than happy to give due consideration to those issues. But in his contribution, he does, in many ways, make the case for reform. It might break his heart to learn this, but he does make the case for reform, because he outlines the changing nature of the threat from fire. He describes secondary fires, grassland and moorland fires, and he may wish to appreciate the expertise and specialisms that we now have in the fire services in Wales. He may be aware that the south Wales fire service spent a great deal of time working with others on Saddleworth moor, for example, dealing with the fires that took place in England, across the border, over the summer months. And that expertise - that knowledge, that specialism - is something that we want to enhance and invest in for the future. The abilities that the fire and rescue authorities and services now have is far beyond that which we would have potentially envisaged in the 1990s, when the current structures were put in place. And it is right and proper, therefore, that we meet an evolving and changing need with a debate and a discussion about how our structures are fit for purpose to meet that changing and evolving landscape. So, I hope that he will perhaps lift his head a little, and give due consideration to these matters. And if he wishes to join the debate about the future, then I'm more than happy to have that conversation with him. The challenges that we will face in the future are great. We know, and we've debated already, the changes to a pattern of fire responses required. The Member asked a number of questions on Grenfell Tower and our response to that. I will say to him that our response has been led by the Minister in these matters, and she has, as he will be aware, made a number of statements to this Assembly on the evolving response of the Welsh Government to the absolute tragedy of Grenfell Tower. And we will be continuing, and she will be continuing, to lead that response. But let me say this: as we move forward to respond - and, I believe, put in place a new structure to respond to Grenfell - it is right and proper that the fire and rescue authorities play a full and leading role in responding to that. That is why we need fire and rescue authorities that are fit for purpose, with the funding and the governance in place to enable them to do so.
Welsh: Dirprwy Lywydd, daeth ofn dychrynllyd arnaf hanner ffordd drwy'r cyfraniad hwnnw fod yr Aelod Ceidwadol yn mynd i ddarllen nodiadau pob cyfarfod a gefais dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, a darllen o nodiadau pob cyfarfod, cyfraniad pob aelod yn y cyfarfod hwnnw. [Chwerthin.] Gallai fod wedi bod yn sesiwn hir iawn, iawn. Gadewch imi ddweud hyn: rydym ni, fel y dywedodd yr Aelod, wedi cael sgwrs hir iawn gyda'r cadeiryddion a'r prif swyddogion presennol wrth inni symud drwy'r broses. A, dros y flwyddyn neu ddwy ddiwethaf, rwyf wedi ceisio datblygu dadl, gyda'r cadeiryddion yn arbennig, dros yr angen i ddiwygio a ffurf y diwygio hwnnw. Cyflwynais yr elfen academaidd i hynny ar sail ymgais i lunio ac i ganiatáu datblygu syniadau eu hunain ar rai o'r materion hyn. A gadewch imi ddweud hyn: Papur Gwyn yw hwn, ac mae'n Bapur Gwyn sy'n holi barn ynglŷn â chynigion penodol, ond nid yw'n Bapur Gwyn sy'n anwybyddu dewisiadau eraill. Yn wir, pe bai'r Aelod yn rhoi o'i amser i ddarllen y Papur Gwyn yn fanwl, yna byddai'n gweld, yn y Papur Gwyn ei hun, ein bod ni yn gwneud ymdrech i ddweud, os oes cynigion eraill, awgrymiadau eraill, argymhellion eraill ar gyfer diwygio, ein bod ni'n hapus i roi sylw iddyn nhw ac i ystyried y cynigion ychwanegol hynny. Nid wyf ar unrhyw adeg yn y broses hon wedi siarad o blaid nac yn erbyn unrhyw fesurau amgen neu unrhyw awgrymiadau amgen, ac eithrio cael llu cenedlaethol, brigâd genedlaethol, a hefyd trosglwyddo cyfrifoldeb i'r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu. Dyna'r ddau ddewis yr wyf i wedi eu diystyru, ond nid wyf i wedi diystyru dewisiadau eraill. Os oes gan lefarydd y Blaid Geidwadol unrhyw awgrymiadau y mae'n dymuno inni eu hystyried, yna rwy'n fwy na pharod i roi ystyriaeth briodol i'r materion hynny. Ond yn ei gyfraniad, mae yntau, mewn sawl ffordd, yn dadlau dros ddiwygio. Efallai y bydd clywed hynny yn torri ei galon, ond mae yn dadlau o blaid diwygio, oherwydd mae yntau yn amlinellu'r newid yn natur bygythiad tân. Mae'n disgrifio tanau eilaidd, tannau ar y glaswelltiroedd a'r rhosydd, ac efallai yr hoffai werthfawrogi'r arbenigedd a'r deheurwydd sydd gennym ni yn awr yn y gwasanaethau tân yng Nghymru. Efallai ei fod yn ymwybodol bod gwasanaeth tân de Cymru wedi treulio llawer iawn o amser yn gweithio gydag eraill ar weunydd Saddleworth, er enghraifft, yn ymdrin â'r tanau a fu yn Lloegr, ar draws y ffin, dros fisoedd yr haf. Ac mae'r arbenigedd hwnnw - yr wybodaeth, y deheurwydd hwnnw - yn bethau y mae arnom ni eisiau eu gwella a buddsoddi ynddyn nhw ar gyfer y dyfodol. Mae'r galluoedd sydd gan yr awdurdodau a'r gwasanaethau tân ac achub bellach ymhell y tu hwnt i'r hyn y byddem ni wedi eu rhagweld yn bosibl yn y 1990au, pan luniwyd y strwythurau presennol. Ac mae'n addas ac yn briodol, felly, ein bod yn diwallu angen sy'n newid ac yn esblygu drwy ddadlau a thrafod sut mae ein strwythurau yn addas at y diben i ymateb i'r sefyllfa honno sy'n newid ac yn datblygu. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y gwnaiff efallai godi ei ben ychydig, a rhoi ystyriaeth ddyledus i'r materion hyn. Ac os yw'n dymuno bod yn rhan o'r drafodaeth am y dyfodol, rwy'n fwy na pharod i gael y sgwrs honno gydag ef. Bydd yr heriau y byddwn ni yn eu hwynebu yn y dyfodol yn rhai mawr. Rydym ni'n gwybod, ac rydym ni wedi trafod eisoes, y newidiadau sydd eu hangen i'r patrwm o ymateb i danau. Gofynnodd yr Aelod nifer o gwestiynau am Dŵr Grenfell a'n hymateb i hynny. Dywedaf wrtho ein bod wedi dilyn arweiniad y Gweinidog wrth ymateb i'r materion hyn, ac mae hi, fel y bydd yn ymwybodol, wedi gwneud sawl datganiad i'r Cynulliad hwn ar ymateb esblygol Llywodraeth Cymru i drychineb llwyr Tŵr Grenfell. A byddwn yn parhau, a bydd hithau'n parhau, i arwain yr ymateb hwnnw. Ond gadewch i mi ddweud hyn: wrth inni symud ymlaen i ymateb - ac rwy'n credu, sefydlu strwythur newydd i ymateb i Grenfell - mae'n addas a phriodol bod yr awdurdodau tân ac achub yn chwarae rhan lawn a blaenllaw wrth ymateb i hynny. Dyna pam fod angen awdurdodau tân ac achub arnom ni sy'n addas at y diben, ac sydd â'r cyllid a'r drefn lywodraethu i'w galluogi i wneud hynny.