English: Can I just say how delighted I am to be in this Chamber today to see this piece of legislation brought forward? As Siân Gwenllian has said, it has been a long time coming, but that is no reason not to welcome it very warmly today. I'd like to associate myself with everything the Deputy Minister has said about her predecessors, but I also feel that I need to say that I can think of no more fit person on her benches to be the Member in charge of this piece of legislation today and I hugely, hugely look forward to working with her as the legislation is brought forward. I very much welcome - as I know do the groups and organisations, some of which the Deputy Minister has referred to - the fact that this will be a simple Bill, that it will be a simple question of repeal. I have, of course, heard what other Members have said about there being many issues that we need to do to support children and ensure that they're not abused, but this piece of legislation is not the place for that. A simple repeal is very much what's required, and I'm delighted to be able to support that today as, as Siân Gwenllian says, all of my fellow Plaid Cymru Members will be doing. I won't, Deputy Presiding Officer, reiterate the discussion points that have already been raised, but I do want to refer to something that the Deputy Minister has already mentioned about the way that children and young people feel when they are physically punished. We know that the best research now shows that little ones are upset and confused, because mummy and daddy tell them all the time big people must not hit little people - 'Do not hit your little brother, that's not kind'. And if, then, in the next breath, daddy is smacking you for having hit your little brother, that's a very, very confusing thing if you're four or five years old. We know that the reaction of older children if they are physically punished, if they are hit - because that's what we're talking about - is that they feel humiliated and powerless, and that there is a direct link then between that and those children then going on to behave worse. That's the link that Members have mentioned - between physical punishment, between adults hitting children, and those children then going on to commit acts of anti-social behaviour. I know and I really understand the concerns that other Members have raised here, and I believe those concerns are absolutely genuine. And I hope that, through the passage of the Bill, we will all be able - particularly the committee members, but we will all be able to look again at the best, most current evidence, and be reassured that nowhere where this legislation has been introduced have we had hundreds and hundreds of perfectly good parents being criminalised. What, of course, this legislation will do is to make it very clear to families what is and isn't acceptable. Certainly, from my constituency postbag, there are a lot of people who very warmly welcome that. I just want to ask a couple of specific questions. Vikki Howells has already raised the point about children and young people being consulted in the process. I would like to put to the Deputy Minister that it's very important that that includes younger children, and not only teenagers. There are some excellent projects that I know the Deputy Minister is aware of, like the Little Voices project based in Swansea University, where really small children, six and seven-year-olds, have been able to have a voice in policy, and in terms of what they think is going to work for them - I think not so much in terms of the legislation, because they're not going to care about that, but about how they feel that they learn best, we can usefully listen to them. Again, in terms of who will get access to parenting services, I hear what's been said about the need for additional resources, and I of course would associate myself with what Vikki Howells has said about the importance of reaching out to what we call hard-to-reach communities. I sometimes think it's a question of communities where we just haven't tried hard enough, to be honest. But I would also want us to be very careful that we don't give the impression that problematic parenting is something that only happens amongst people who are economically poor. As a middle-class single mother myself, there were times when I would desperately, for example, would have liked to have my mum next door, and she wasn't there. So, I think we have to make sure in this debate that we're not giving any impression that we think people living in those communities are any more likely to behave inappropriately to their children than middle-class parents. I think we also mustn't be under any impression that middle-class parents don't need help either. So, I'd like the Deputy Minister to give some consideration as to how we can - . I would argue that those middle-class parents struggling behind closed doors are potentially one of the hardest-to-reach groups in this discussion, because there may be a question of humiliation in terms of saying, 'I can't manage'. So, perhaps to give some consideration - and I hear what the Deputy Minister has said about health visiting services, maternity services for very young parents, but also whether there are things that we can do through schools to raise awareness and give access to more middle-class families, who might find it more difficult to access perhaps more traditional routes. And, finally, in relation to the timescales, I appreciate what the Deputy Minister has said about the need for things to bed in. I would argue that the very fact that we've been having these debates in this place over a number of years has contributed to the shift that the Deputy Minister has already referred to in public opinion. People know what we've been talking about. We now know that 80 per cent of parents of young children in Wales don't believe that physical punishment is acceptable, and they don't want to use it. So, I think we've been talking about this for quite a long time. It's good to see Christine Chapman here today. I wonder if I can ask the Deputy Minister to keep that two-year implementation period under review. I think that children in Wales have been waiting a very long time to receive the equal protection that most of us here feel that they deserve. I appreciate what the Deputy Minister says about needing to be clear that everybody understands about a change in the law, but I just think that two years, once the law is passed, seems like a very, very long time to me. So, I'd ask the Deputy Minister to keep that under review, if she'd be so kind.
Welsh: A gaf i ddweud pa mor falch wyf i o fod yn y Siambr hon heddiw i weld y darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth yn cael ei gyflwyno? Fel y dywedodd Siân Gwenllian, mae wedi bod yn hir yn dod, ond nid yw hynny'n rheswm i beidio â'i groesawu'n fawr iawn heddiw. Hoffwn ategu popeth a ddywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog am ei rhagflaenwyr, ond hefyd rwy'n teimlo bod yn rhaid imi ddweud na allaf feddwl am berson mwy addas ar ei meinciau i fod yr Aelod sy'n gyfrifol am y darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth heddiw ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen yn fawr iawn at weithio gyda hi wrth i'r ddeddfwriaeth gael ei chyflwyno. Croesawaf yn fawr iawn - fel rwy'n gwybod bod y grwpiau a'r sefydliadau y cyfeiriodd y Dirprwy Weinidog at rai ohonyn nhw - y ffaith y bydd hwn yn Fil syml, y bydd yn fater syml o ddiddymiad. Wrth gwrs, clywais yr hyn a ddywedodd Aelodau eraill am y ffaith bod llawer o faterion y mae angen inni ymdrin â nhw i gefnogi plant a sicrhau nad ydynt yn cael eu cam-drin, ond nid yn y darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth mae'r lle i hynny. Diddymiad syml yw'r hyn sydd ei angen mewn gwirionedd, ac rwy'n falch iawn o allu cefnogi hynny heddiw a dyna, fel y dywed Siân Gwenllian, fydd pob un o'm cyd-Aelodau Plaid Cymru yn ei wneud. Wnaf i ddim, Dirprwy Lywydd, ailadrodd y pwyntiau trafod a godwyd eisoes, ond hoffwn gyfeirio at rywbeth y mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog eisoes wedi ei grybwyll ynghylch y ffordd y mae plant a phobl ifanc yn teimlo pan gânt eu cosbi'n gorfforol. Rydym yn gwybod bod yr ymchwil gorau yn dangos bellach bod y rhai bach yn ofidus a dryslyd, oherwydd bod mami a dadi yn dweud wrthyn nhw trwy'r amser nad yw pobl fawr i fod i daro pobl fychan - 'Paid â tharo dy frawd bach, dydi hynny ddim yn garedig'. Ac yna, ar yr un gwynt, os yw dadi'n rhoi smacen ichi ar ôl i chi daro eich brawd bach, mae hynny'n ddryslyd iawn, os ydych chi'n bedwar neu'n bump oed. Gwyddom mai ymateb y plant hŷn os cânt eu cosbi'n gorfforol, os cânt eu taro - gan mai dyna beth yr ydym yn sôn amdano - yw eu bod yn teimlo wedi eu bychanu ac yn ddi-rym, a bod cyswllt uniongyrchol wedyn rhwng hynny a'r plant hynny wedyn yn mynd ymlaen i ymddwyn yn waeth. Dyma'r cysylltiad y mae Aelodau wedi'i grybwyll - rhwng cosb gorfforol, rhwng oedolion yn taro plant, a'r plant hynny wedyn yn mynd ymlaen i ymddwyn yn wrthgymdeithasol. Rwy'n gwybod ac rwy'n wirioneddol ddeall y pryderon a godwyd gan Aelodau eraill yma, ac rwy'n credu bod y pryderon hynny yn gwbl ddilys. Ac rwy'n gobeithio, yn ystod hynt y Bil, y byddwn ni i gyd yn gallu - yn enwedig aelodau'r pwyllgor, ond y byddwn i gyd yn gallu edrych eto ar y dystiolaeth orau a'r fwyaf cyfredol, a chael sicrwydd, lle bynnag y cyflwynwyd y ddeddfwriaeth hon, na chafodd cannoedd ar gannoedd o rieni da eu gwneud yn droseddwyr. Yr hyn y bydd y ddeddfwriaeth hon yn ei wneud wrth gwrs yw ei gwneud hi'n glir iawn i deuluoedd beth sy'n dderbyniol a beth sy'n annerbyniol. Yn sicr, o edrych ar fy mhost etholaeth, mae llawer o bobl yn croesawu hynny'n fawr iawn. Hoffwn ofyn un neu ddau o gwestiynau penodol. Mae Vikki Howells eisoes wedi codi pwynt am blant a phobl ifanc yn rhan o'r broses ymgynghori. Hoffwn ddweud wrth y Dirprwy Weinidog ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn bod hynny'n cynnwys plant iau, ac nid pobl yn eu harddegau'n unig. Ceir rhai prosiectau rhagorol y gwn i fod y Dirprwy Weinidog yn ymwybodol ohonyn nhw, megis y prosiect Lleisiau Bach ym Mhrifysgol Abertawe, lle mae plant bach iawn, chwech a saith oed, wedi gallu cael llais o ran y polisi, ac o ran beth yw eu barn am yr hyn fyddai'n gweithio iddyn nhw - nid yn gymaint o ran y ddeddfwriaeth, gan nad ydyn nhw'n mynd i boeni am hynny, ond ynghylch sut y maen nhw'n teimlo y maen nhw'n dysgu orau, gall fod yn ddefnyddiol inni wrando arnyn nhw. Unwaith eto, o ran pwy fydd yn gallu defnyddio gwasanaethau rhianta, clywaf yr hyn a ddywedwyd am yr angen am adnoddau ychwanegol, ac wrth gwrs byddwn yn ategu'r hyn a ddywedodd Vikki Howells am bwysigrwydd estyn allan at yr hyn a alwn ni'n gymunedau anodd eu cyrraedd. Credaf weithiau ei fod yn ymwneud â chymunedau lle nad ydym ni wedi ymdrechu'n ddigon caled, i fod yn onest. Ond byddwn i hefyd eisiau inni fod yn ofalus iawn rhag rhoi'r argraff bod rhianta problemus yn rhywbeth sy'n digwydd ymhlith pobl sy'n dlawd yn economaidd yn unig. A minnau'n fam sengl ddosbarth canol fy hun, roedd adegau pan fyddwn i wedi hoffi'n fawr iawn cael fy mam drws nesaf, a doedd hi ddim yno. Felly, rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid inni wneud yn siŵr yn y ddadl hon, nad ydym ni'n creu unrhyw argraff ein bod yn credu bod y bobl sy'n byw yn y cymunedau hynny yn fwy tebygol o ymddwyn yn amhriodol tuag at eu plant na rhieni dosbarth canol. Rwy'n credu hefyd na ddylem ni fod o dan unrhyw argraff nad yw rhieni dosbarth canol angen help ychwaith. Felly, hoffwn i'r Dirprwy Weinidog ystyried sut y gallwn ni - . Byddwn i'n dadlau mai'r rhieni dosbarth canol hynny sy'n cael trafferthion tu ôl i ddrysau caeedig o bosib yw un o'r grwpiau sydd fwyaf anodd eu cyrraedd yn y drafodaeth hon, oherwydd gall mater o gywilydd godi o ddweud, 'ni allaf ddod i ben â hi'. Felly, efallai cydnabod hynny - a chlywaf yr hyn a ddywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog am wasanaethau ymwelwyr iechyd, gwasanaethau mamolaeth ar gyfer rhieni ifanc iawn, ond hefyd a oes pethau y gallwn ni eu gwneud drwy ysgolion i godi ymwybyddiaeth a rhoi mynediad i fwy o deuluoedd dosbarth canol, a allai ei chael hi'n fwy anodd defnyddio llwybrau mwy traddodiadol efallai. Ac, yn olaf, o ran amserlenni, rwy'n gwerthfawrogi'r hyn a ddywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog am yr angen i bethau ymsefydlu. Byddwn i'n dadlau bod y ffaith ein bod wedi cael y dadleuon hyn yn y lle hwn dros nifer o flynyddoedd wedi cyfrannu at y newid y mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog eisoes wedi cyfeirio ato yn y farn gyhoeddus. Mae pobl yn gwybod am yr hyn yr ydym ni wedi bod yn siarad amdano. Gwyddom bellach fod 80 y cant o rieni plant ifanc yng Nghymru yn credu bod cosbi corfforol yn annerbyniol, ac nad ydyn nhw eisiau ei ddefnyddio. Felly, rwy'n credu ein bod ni wedi trafod hyn ers tro. Mae'n dda gweld Christine Chapman yma heddiw. Tybed a gaf i ofyn i'r Dirprwy Weinidog gadw'r cyfnod gweithredu o ddwy flynedd o dan adolygiad. Rwy'n credu bod plant yng Nghymru wedi bod yn aros am amser hir iawn i gael yr un amddiffyniad y mae'r rhan fwyaf ohonom yma yn teimlo eu bod yn ei haeddu. Rwy'n gwerthfawrogi'r hyn y mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog yn ei ddweud am yr angen i fod yn glir bod pawb yn deall y newid yn y gyfraith, ond rwy'n credu bod dwy flynedd, ar ôl i'r ddeddf gael ei phasio, yn ymddangos yn amser hir iawn, iawn i mi. Felly, byddwn i'n gofyn i'r Dirprwy Weinidog adolygu hynny, os byddai hi mor garedig.