English: The BBC was at its best last night with a really powerful dramatisation of the story of The Windermere Children and the work of Leonard Montefiore in fighting bureaucracy to get these children to come from war-torn liberated concentration camps. It also captured, if you like, the bigotry that still existed at that time in this country, and still exists today. It was a no-holds-barred dramatisation of the story of those young people. Then, it went on subsequently, later, to interview those children as they are today in their 80s. And so it was the most extraordinary experience to be able to really understand exactly what they'd been through. So, I think that we have to remember that there was huge resistance by the UK Government both to bringing in people in kindertransport before the war, and so many of those children died in the concentration camps, but also to bringing in any of these children at all. It was only down to the persistence of this visionary man that he managed to negotiate with both the UK Government and with the Red Cross to persuade them to allow these people to come to the Lake District to have some sort of rehabilitation before they had to reintegrate with normal life. It was great to see Mala Tribich, who was undoubtedly the star of the show at our event here in the Senedd on 14 January, but she was also the central character in Westminster Central Hall, because it was her story that was mentioned by the Prime Minister; it was her who briefed him on what he had to say. I think one of the things that was most heartening about the event yesterday in City Hall was to hear Dr Martin Stern being so clear that it isn't about just this one historic event, but all the 50 other Holocausts that have happened since then; all the genocides that have happened since then. I just wanted to also say that I think the stand together initiative of this year's Holocaust memorial is really important, because it has started to tell the story of all the other people who were murdered by the Nazis so that - . On my chair was the name of somebody called Ewald Förster who was murdered by the Nazis for being a gay person, and also Sophie Blaschke, murdered by the Nazis for being a disabled person. But equally, I wanted to come back to what was mentioned by Mark Isherwood, which was also the destruction and murder of the Roma and Sinti, which was spoken about by Isaac Blake. He embraced the memorial stone project that was also brought to the Senedd two weeks ago, and organised for schools to take part in that creative project so that they could be part of the permanent memorial in Westminster. He told me yesterday that several schools had turned down the opportunity to allow their pupils to make a memorial stone on the grounds that they didn't have any Gypsies or Travellers amongst their pupils, as if this was something that only affected certain types of people, which is quite extraordinary. But I just wanted to come back to the way in which we have neglected, up until now, the horror that was suffered by Roma and Sinti by the Nazis. Because it's worth noting that the Jewish people were given reparations by Germany for their Holocaust crimes, but at Nuremberg, nobody ever discussed any reparations for the Roma and Sinti community or anybody else, as far as I'm aware. And I think one of the most important things that I learnt from the event here at the Senedd was that, whilst we know - and I think everybody in this Chamber knows that 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazis - we do not know how many Roma and Sinti were murdered by the Nazis, even though they were absolutely religious note takers of everything they did. We know that there was a large number, but we have no idea how many. Most estimates put it between 220,000 and 500,000, but some scholars put it as high as 1.5 million. And I just wondered whether there was anything that the Welsh Government could do to support the research required to tie down exactly how many Roma and Sinti were murdered by the Nazis because I think it's an important part of recording the pain and suffering that was suffered by people who mainly had no literacy, and therefore didn't record things in the way that most Jewish people did. So, I just wondered whether there was anything that could be done to rectify that, to help support some further research into trying to have a much more granular idea of just how many other people, other than Jews, were murdered by the Nazis.
Welsh: Roedd y BBC ar ei orau neithiwr gyda dramateiddiad gwirioneddol rymus o stori The Windermere Children a gwaith Leonard Montefiore yn brwydro yn erbyn biwrocratiaeth i gael y plant hyn i ddod o wersylloedd crynhoi a gawsant eu rhyddhau ar ôl dioddef erchyllterau rhyfel. Tynnodd sylw pobl hefyd, os mynnwch chi, at y rhagfarn a fodolai o hyd yr adeg honno yn y wlad hon, ac sy'n dal i fodoli heddiw. Roedd yn ddramateiddiad diflewyn-ar-dafod o stori'r bobl ifanc hynny. Yna, aeth ymlaen, yn ddiweddarach, i gyfweld y plant hynny fel y maen nhw heddiw, yn eu 80au. Ac felly, roedd yn brofiad anhygoel i gael deall yn union yr hyn a ddioddefodd y rhain. Felly, credaf fod yn rhaid inni gofio bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi gwrthwynebu'n chwyrn dod â phobl draw drwy gyfrwng y kindertransport cyn y rhyfel, ac felly bu farw llawer o'r plant hynny yn y gwersylloedd crynhoi, ond hefyd roeddent yn gwrthwynebu dod ag unrhyw un o'r plant hyn yma o gwbl. Dim ond oherwydd dyfalbarhad y gŵr hwn â'i weledigaeth y llwyddodd i negodi gyda Llywodraeth y DU a chyda'r Groes Goch i'w perswadio i adael i'r bobl hyn ddod i Ardal y Llynnoedd i brofi rhyw fath o adferiad cyn iddynt orfod ailintegreiddio i fywyd arferol. Roedd yn wych gweld Mala Tribich, seren y sioe yn ddi-os yn ein digwyddiad ni yma yn y Senedd ar 14 Ionawr, ond hi hefyd oedd y cymeriad canolog yn Neuadd Ganolog San Steffan, oherwydd ei stori hi a grybwyllwyd gan Brif Weinidog y DU; hi roddodd ef ar ben ffordd ynglŷn â beth i'w ddweud. Rwy'n credu mai un o'r pethau mwyaf calonogol am y digwyddiad ddoe yn Neuadd y Ddinas oedd clywed Dr Martin Stern yn dweud mor eglur nad yw'n ymwneud â'r un digwyddiad hanesyddol hwn yn unig, ond ynghylch y 50 o'r holocostau eraill sydd wedi digwydd ers hynny; yr holl hil-laddiadau sydd wedi digwydd ers hynny. Roeddwn i eisiau dweud hefyd fy mod i'n credu bod menter 'Sefyll Gyda'n Gilydd' wrth gofio'r Holocost eleni yn bwysig iawn, gan ei bod wedi dechrau adrodd hanes yr holl bobl eraill a lofruddiwyd gan y Natsïaid fel bod - . Ar fy nghadair roedd enw rhywun a elwid yn Ewald Förster a lofruddiwyd gan y Natsïaid am fod yn hoyw, a hefyd Sophie Blaschke a lofruddiwyd gan y Natsïaid am fod yn anabl. Ond yn yr un modd, roeddwn eisiau dychwelyd at yr hyn a grybwyllwyd gan Mark Isherwood, sef hefyd, dinistrio a llofruddio y Roma a'r Sinti, a grybwyllwyd gan Isaac Blake. Croesawodd y prosiect cerrig coffa a ddaeth hefyd i'r Senedd bythefnos yn ôl, a threfnwyd i ysgolion gymryd rhan yn y prosiect creadigol hwnnw fel y gallent fod yn rhan o'r gofeb barhaol yn San Steffan. Dywedodd wrthyf ddoe fod nifer o ysgolion wedi gwrthod y cyfle i ganiatáu i'w disgyblion wneud carreg goffa ar y sail nad oedd ganddyn nhw unrhyw Sipsiwn na Theithwyr ymhlith eu disgyblion, fel pe bai hyn yn rhywbeth oedd dim ond yn effeithio ar fathau arbennig o bobl, sy'n eithaf rhyfeddol. Ond roeddwn eisiau dychwelyd at y ffordd yr ydym ni wedi esgeuluso, hyd yn hyn, yr arswyd a ddioddefodd y Roma a'r Sinti dan y Natsïaid. Oherwydd mae hi'n werth nodi bod y bobl Iddewig wedi cael iawndal gan yr Almaen am eu troseddau Holocost, ond yn Nuremberg, ni thrafodwyd unrhyw iawndal ar gyfer y gymuned Roma a Sinti na neb arall, hyd y gwn i. Ac rwy'n credu mai un o'r pethau pwysicaf a ddysgais o'r digwyddiad yma yn y Senedd oedd, er ein bod yn gwybod - ac rwy'n credu bod pawb yn y Siambr hon yn gwybod y cafodd 6 miliwn o Iddewon eu llofruddio gan y Natsïaid - nid ydym yn gwybod faint o Roma a Sinti a lofruddiwyd gan y Natsïaid, er eu bod yn dra gofalus wrth gofnodi popeth a wnaethent. Rydym yn gwybod bod y nifer yn fawr, ond nid oes gennym ni unrhyw syniad pa mor fawr. Mae'r rhan fwyaf o amcangyfrifon yn nodi rhwng 220,000 a 500,000, ond mae rhai ysgolheigion yn dweud ei fod cymaint â 1.5 miliwn. Tybed a oes unrhyw beth y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i gefnogi'r ymchwil sydd ei hangen i gadarnhau'n union faint o Roma a Sinti a lofruddiwyd gan y Natsïaid oherwydd rwy'n credu ei fod yn rhan bwysig o gofnodi'r boen a'r dioddefaint a dioddefodd pobl oedd yn bennaf yn anllythrennog, ac na fu iddyn nhw felly gofnodi pethau yn y ffordd y gwnaeth y rhan fwyaf o bobl Iddewig. Felly, tybed a oes unrhyw beth y gellid ei wneud i gywiro hynny, i helpu i gefnogi rhagor o ymchwil i geisio cael syniad llawer mwy manwl o faint o bobl eraill, ar wahân i Iddewon, a lofruddiwyd gan y Natsïaid.