English: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I thank all Members who've contributed to today's debate and thank the Deputy Minister as well for his comments, and everyone for raising a number of important points? I think I should point out as well that the committee recognises that some of these issues date back a fairly considerable length of time and, obviously, the Deputy Minister wasn't in post at that time, but a number of officials were and we were pleased to take evidence from them and to make our recommendations. If I can just touch on some of the comments that were made by Members who contributed. Jenny Rathbone, you touched on the VAT issue - I didn't really mention that in my opening remarks, so I'm glad that you raised it because it was an important point that featured in our report. We have seen other instances in Welsh Government projects where VAT hasn't been effectively taken into consideration. I know the situation arose with the early M4 discussions as well. So, that's an area where the Welsh Government has to get it right and they have to build up their expertise in that area, because, let's face it, VAT is a pretty basic component of all our lives, actually, and certainly of Welsh Government life, so it's something that does need to be brought up to speed, and I'm pleased to hear the comments from the Deputy Minister in that regard. As you've said, actually, Jenny, it was generous that you said that the Welsh Government could be accused of trying to be too ambitious back in 2014 when the original contracts were signed with Pinewood. This was groundbreaking territory. It's an area that, as Mohammad Asghar said, was greeted with great excitement from Government and from people across Wales. It's a great thing for us to be involved on the international stage with the tv and film industry and I think everyone would wish that project well. Of course, as we know with hindsight now, it wasn't as rosy in the garden as it seemed at the time, and, sadly, that relationship ended a few years later without the dividends that were promised. But there was an initial hope, and hopefully that flame can be reignited in the future. We all accept that this isn't an easy area to operate in; it can take several years for benefits of this sort of venture to be realised, but that definitely didn't happen in this case, when that relationship was terminated, so those lessons do need to be learnt. Mohammad Asghar spoke about the listed building issue. Yes, there should've been a survey in this case - of course there should've been. I think everyone recognises that now. I do understand the reasons for the Welsh Government's rejection of our recommendation. Yes, there may be times when, if a building is going to be demolished, a survey would be a waste of money, so that wouldn't be necessary, or, indeed, the opposite of that, where there may be a case for a survey where purchases are smaller than £1 million. What we are saying is that, however the Welsh Government does it - [ Interruption.] - I'll bring you in now, Mike. However the Welsh Government does it, we want to see that process happen so that the right decisions are made at the time. Mike Hedges.
Welsh: Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. A gaf fi ddiolch i'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl heddiw a diolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog hefyd am ei sylwadau, ac i bawb am godi nifer o bwyntiau pwysig? Credaf y dylwn nodi hefyd fod y pwyllgor yn cydnabod bod rhai o'r materion hyn yn dyddio'n ôl gryn dipyn o amser ac yn amlwg, nid oedd y Dirprwy Weinidog yn ei swydd bryd hynny, ond roedd nifer o swyddogion yn eu swyddi ac roeddem yn falch o glywed tystiolaeth ganddynt a gwneud ein hargymhellion. Os caf gyffwrdd ar rai o'r sylwadau a wnaed gan yr Aelodau a gyfrannodd. Jenny Rathbone, soniasoch am fater TAW - ni soniais am hynny'n iawn yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, felly rwy'n falch i chi ei godi oherwydd roedd yn bwynt pwysig a drafodwyd yn ein hadroddiad. Rydym wedi gweld enghreifftiau eraill mewn prosiectau Llywodraeth Cymru lle nad yw TAW wedi cael ei ystyried i bob pwrpas. Rwy'n gwybod bod y sefyllfa wedi codi gyda'r trafodaethau cynnar ar yr M4 hefyd. Felly, mae hwnnw'n faes lle mae'n rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru wneud pethau'n iawn ac mae'n rhaid iddynt feithrin eu harbenigedd yn y maes hwnnw, oherwydd, gadewch inni wynebu'r gwir, mae TAW yn elfen eithaf sylfaenol ym mywydau pawb ohonom mewn gwirionedd, ac ym mywyd Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicr, felly mae'n rhywbeth sydd angen ei gael yn iawn, ac rwy'n falch o glywed y sylwadau gan y Dirprwy Weinidog ynglŷn â hynny. Fel y dywedoch chi, Jenny, roeddech yn hael yn dweud y gellid cyhuddo Llywodraeth Cymru o geisio bod yn rhy uchelgeisiol yn ôl yn 2014 pan lofnodwyd y contractau gwreiddiol gyda Pinewood. Roedd hwn yn dir arloesol. Fel y dywedodd Mohammad Asghar, mae'n faes a ysgogodd gryn gyffro ar ran y Llywodraeth ac ymhlith pobl ledled Cymru. Mae'n beth gwych i ni gymryd rhan ar y llwyfan rhyngwladol gyda'r diwydiant teledu a ffilm ac rwy'n credu y byddai pawb yn dymuno'n dda i'r prosiect. Wrth gwrs, fel y gwyddom yn awr wrth edrych yn ôl, nid oedd pethau mor hyfryd ag yr ymddangosent ar y pryd, ac yn anffodus, daeth y berthynas honno i ben ychydig o flynyddoedd yn ddiweddarach heb y difidendau a addawyd. Ond roedd yna obaith ar y cychwyn, a gobeithio y gellir ailgynnau'r fflam honno yn y dyfodol. Mae pawb ohonom yn derbyn nad yw hwn yn faes hawdd i weithredu ynddo; gall gymryd sawl blwyddyn i wireddu manteision menter o'r fath, ond yn bendant ni ddigwyddodd hynny yn yr achos hwn, pan derfynwyd y berthynas honno, felly mae angen dysgu'r gwersi. Siaradodd Mohammad Asghar am yr adeilad rhestredig. Dylid bod wedi cynnal arolwg yn yr achos hwn - wrth gwrs y dylid bod wedi gwneud hynny. Rwy'n credu bod pawb yn cydnabod hynny bellach. Rwy'n deall y rhesymau pam y gwrthododd Llywodraeth Cymru ein hargymhelliad. Efallai y bydd adegau pan fydd arolwg yn wastraff arian os yw adeilad yn mynd i gael ei ddymchwel, felly ni fyddai angen hynny, nac yn wir y gwrthwyneb i hynny, lle gallai fod achos dros arolwg lle mae pryniannau yn werth llai nag £1 filiwn. Yr hyn yr ydym yn ei ddweud yw, sut bynnag y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud - [ T orri ar draws.] - Fe ddof â chi i mewn yn awr, Mike. Sut bynnag y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud, rydym am weld y broses honno'n digwydd fel bod y penderfyniadau cywir yn cael eu gwneud ar y pryd. Mike Hedges.