techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: Well, let us move on from the question of cost for the time being, and turn to one of the questions I asked you when you were appointed as Cabinet Secretary for local government. That question was what kind of style you were going to adopt in dealing with local government. It may be true that we haven't seen quite the level of argument and contention in the media between yourself and local authorities, but the stark disagreements continue, and the truth is that there isn't support from local councils for the Green Paper proposals. Debbie Wilcox, as you well know, has said that any sensible estimate would show that council mergers wouldn't save money. 'Taking unnecessary attention', as the leader of Caerphilly put it, and yesterday, as we heard, we had a formal response from Denbighshire County Council, which is one of the few councils that was willing to merge during the last Assembly term, and Denbighshire noted that there isn't a credible case for change that has been made in the White Paper. When you started in this role, you said that it was time to have a new relationship with local government. Was creating total disagreement between Government and local authorities what you had in mind?
Welsh: Wel, gadewch i ni symud ymlaen o'r cwestiwn o gost am ychydig, felly, a throi at un o'r cwestiynau y gwnes i eu gofyn i chi pan gawsoch chi eich penodi fel Ysgrifennydd Cabinet dros lywodraeth leol. Y cwestiwn hwnnw oedd pa fath o steil yr oeddech chi am ei fabwysiadu wrth ddelio efo llywodraeth leol. Mae'n wir, efallai, nad ydym ni wedi gweld y fath lefel o ffraeo a checru yn y cyfryngau rhyngoch chi a'r awdurdodau lleol, ond mae'r anghytuno croch yn parhau, a'r gwirionedd ydy nad oes yna gefnogaeth gan gynghorau lleol i gynigion y Papur Gwyrdd. Mae Debbie Wilcox, fel rydych chi'n gwybod yn iawn, wedi dweud bod unrhyw amcangyfrif synhwyrol yn dangos na fuasai uno cynghorau yn arbed arian. 'Tynnu sylw diangen', meddai arweinydd cyngor Caerffili, a ddoe, fel y clywsom ni, mi gawsom ni ymateb ffurfiol gan Gyngor Sir Ddinbych hyd yn oed, sef un o'r ychydig gynghorau a oedd yn barod i uno yn ystod tymor y Cynulliad diwethaf, a Dinbych yn nodi nad oes achos credadwy dros newid wedi'i wneud yn nogfen ymgynghori'r Papur Gwyn. Pan ddechreuoch chi yn y rôl yma, dywedoch chi ei bod hi'n bryd cael perthynas newydd efo llywodraeth leol. Ai creu anghytundeb llwyr rhwng y Llywodraeth ac awdurdodau lleol a oedd gennych chi mewn golwg?
English: When you posed the question, I replied here in the Chamber, and also on my blog, and you've questioned me on that since the publication of the article. And I was entirely clear at the time that I have a vision for the future and I have a vision of a different government in Wales - a model that devolves power from this place, and you and Plaid have - . I have heard many speeches from Plaid Cymru on that subject over the years, and now I'm proposing that. I am proposing devolution from Cardiff bay to Denbighshire, Anglesey, Caernarfon and even to Bangor. And I am holding that discussion with local government, and also beyond local government, because too frequently we talk about government as if we, the Members, and councillors, own it. I think it is the people of Wales that own the way that we govern, and not politicians.
Welsh: Pan ofynnoch chi'r cwestiwn, mi wnes eich ateb chi fan hyn yn y Siambr, a hefyd ar fy mlog, ac rydych chi wedi fy nghwestiynu i ar hynny ers i mi gyhoeddi'r erthygl. Ac roeddwn i'n hollol glir ar y pryd fod gen i weledigaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol ac mae gen i weledigaeth o lywodraeth wahanol yng Nghymru - llywodraeth lle rydym ni yn datganoli o'r lle yma, ac mi rydych chi a'ch Plaid wedi gwneud digon - . Rydw i wedi clywed digon o areithiau gan Plaid Cymru ar hynny dros y blynyddoedd, ac nawr rydw i'n cynnig hynny. Rydw i'n cynnig datganoli o fae Caerdydd i Ddinbych, i sir Fôn, i Gaernarfon, hyd yn oed i Fangor. Ac rydw i'n cynnal y drafodaeth honno gyda llywodraeth leol, ond hefyd y tu hwnt i lywodraeth leol. Gormod o weithiau yn y fan hyn rydym ni'n sôn amboutu llywodraeth fel taw ni a chynghorwyr sydd ei phiau hi. Rydw i'n meddwl mai pobl Cymru sydd biau'r ffordd yr ydym ni'n llywodraethu, nid gwleidyddion.
English: The Conservative Member uses - [ Interruption.] The Conservative Member uses the fact of austerity as if it's the greatest gift that local government has ever received. Let me say this: there are significant issues facing local government today. Most of them are the result of the financial constraints that they face, but not all of them. Welsh local government has, at many times, been clear in itself that 22 local authorities is too many and that it is not sustainable. They've said that on a number of occasions. Now, what we have to do is look to a way forward. Now, I've heard no response from the Conservative spokesperson on a positive way forward. It's the easiest thing in the world to read the newspapers to Members of the National Assembly, but I would suggest that it's an inadequate response to the challenges facing us. Now, I have said very, very clearly that I want to see a positive debate. I want to see an enriching debate. I want to see a debate about how we devolve powers across Wales and how we empower local authorities and how we empower citizens. And I'll be absolutely clear, as I was in an earlier answer to the Member for Arfon, that it is not politicians, whether in county halls or in this place, that own the governance of our country; it is the people of this country that own the governance of this country.
Welsh: Mae'r Aelod Ceidwadol yn defnyddio cyni fel pe bai'r rhodd fwyaf y mae llywodraeth leol erioed wedi ei chael. Gadewch imi ddweud hyn: mae yna broblemau sylweddol yn wynebu llywodraeth leol heddiw. Mae'r rhan fwyaf ohonynt yn deillio o ganlyniad i'r cyfyngiadau ariannol y maent yn eu hwynebu, ond nid pob un ohonynt. Mae llywodraeth leol Cymru wedi bod yn glir sawl gwaith ei hun fod 22 awdurdod lleol yn ormod ac nad yw'n gynaliadwy. Maent wedi dweud hynny ar sawl achlysur. Nawr, yr hyn sy'n rhaid i ni ei wneud yw edrych am ffordd ymlaen. Nawr, nid wyf wedi clywed ymateb gan lefarydd y Ceidwadwyr ar ffordd gadarnhaol ymlaen. Y peth hawsaf yn y byd i'w wneud yw darllen y papurau newydd i Aelodau'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol, ond buaswn yn awgrymu mai ymateb annigonol yw hynny i'r heriau sy'n ein hwynebu. Nawr, dywedais yn glir iawn fy mod am weld dadl gadarnhaol; rwyf am weld dadl gyfoethog. Rwyf am weld dadl ynglŷn â sut y byddwn yn datganoli pwerau ledled Cymru, a sut y grymuswn awdurdodau lleol, a sut y grymuswn ddinasyddion. A byddaf yn gwbl glir, fel yr oeddwn mewn ateb cynharach i'r Aelod dros Arfon, nad gwleidyddion, mewn neuaddau sirol neu'r lle hwn, sy'n berchen ar lywodraethiant ein gwlad; pobl y wlad hon sy'n berchen ar lywodraethiant y wlad hon.
English: Presiding Officer, I was wondering if I'd have another opportunity to speak this afternoon. I have to say, I think she's diminished herself in that previous contribution. I think there was a question there somewhere, although I'm struggling to find it. Let me say this: there has been certainly no debate within the Labour Party of that sort, and, as I said, she diminished herself with that contribution. She may be referring to a report of the remuneration panel for Wales, which is an independent panel, and, if she has any comments to make on those, then she should make those on the record and face up to what she says there. But I have to say this to her: I am considering the report of the remuneration panel for Wales; I have not made any decisions on it, and, when I do take a decision on it, I will publish it. And that report will be from an independent panel. I do hope that she will take the next question as an opportunity to withdraw some of her remarks.
Welsh: Lywydd, roeddwn yn meddwl tybed a fyddai gennyf gyfle arall i siarad y prynhawn yma. Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, rwy'n credu ei bod wedi iselhau ei hun yn y cyfraniad hwnnw. Credaf fod yna gwestiwn yno rywle, er fy mod yn ei chael hi'n anodd dod o hyd iddo. Gadewch i mi ddweud hyn: yn sicr ni fu unrhyw drafodaeth o fewn y Blaid Lafur o'r math hwnnw, ac fel y dywedais, mae wedi iselhau ei hun yn y cyfraniad hwnnw. Efallai ei bod hi'n cyfeirio at adroddiad panel Cymru ar gydnabyddiaeth ariannol, sy'n banel annibynnol, ac, os oes ganddi unrhyw sylwadau i'w gwneud ar y rheini, yna dylai eu cofnodi, ac wynebu'r hyn y mae'n ei ddweud yno. Ond mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hyn wrthi: rwy'n ystyried adroddiad y panel cydnabyddiaeth ariannol ar gyfer Cymru; nid wyf wedi gwneud unrhyw benderfyniadau yn ei gylch, a phan fyddaf yn gwneud penderfyniad arno, fe'i cyhoeddaf. A bydd yr adroddiad hwnnw'n dod gan banel annibynnol. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hi'n defnyddio ei chwestiwn nesaf fel cyfle i dynnu rhai o'i sylwadau yn ôl.
English: Cabinet Secretary, on a point of order, you should not be stood there, telling me that I'm diminishing myself. I have every right to be here to scrutinise and challenge you - and scrutinise and challenge you I will. I have been speaking to the local government community across Wales - I suggest you do. Your Green Paper consultation closed yesterday. This is, in real terms, the sixteenth Welsh Government document outlining reform of some kind to local government structure or working since 2004. And, indeed, in the 20 years of devolution, local government has gone round the table 10 times - there have been 10 Ministers for local government. That doesn't show much importance to this community, which delivers the most vital services. Now, in - . This year, in April, the three fire and local authorities asked you how your local government reform will fit with the reform to their structures - because you're even trying to challenge them at the moment - and you haven't answered that question. Additionally, we know that local government has integral links with other areas of the public service delivery, such as the health service, education, provision of housing and social care, and, particularly, the considerable concerns facing the health service in Wales, including nursing and doctor shortages, systematic failures to keep to waiting times, health board overspends -
Welsh: Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, ar bwynt o drefn, ni ddylech fod yn sefyll yno'n dweud wrthyf fy mod yn iselhau fy hun. Mae gennyf bob hawl i fod yma, i graffu ar eich gwaith a'ch herio chi - ac rwy'n mynd i graffu ar eich gwaith a'ch herio. Rwyf wedi bod yn siarad â'r gymuned llywodraeth leol ledled Cymru - awgrymaf y dylech chi wneud hynny. Daeth eich ymgynghoriad ar y Papur Gwyrdd i ben ddoe. Dyma, mewn termau real, yw'r unfed ddogfen ar bymtheg gan Lywodraeth Cymru sy'n amlinellu diwygiadau o ryw fath i strwythur neu waith lywodraeth leol ers 2004. Ac yn wir, yn yr 20 mlynedd ers datganoli, mae llywodraeth leol wedi cael ei basio o gwmpas y bwrdd 10 gwaith - mae yna 10 Gweinidog llywodraeth leol wedi bod. Nid yw hynny'n rhoi llawer o bwys ar y gymuned hon, sy'n darparu'r gwasanaethau mwyaf hanfodol. Nawr, yn - . Eleni, ym mis Ebrill, gofynnodd y tri awdurdod tân ac awdurdodau lleol i chi sut y bydd eich proses o ddiwygio llywodraeth leol yn cyd-fynd â diwygio eu strwythurau - gan eich bod hyd yn oed yn ceisio eu herio ar hyn o bryd - ac nid ydych wedi ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw. Yn ogystal, gwyddom fod gan lywodraeth leol gysylltiadau annatod â meysydd darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus eraill, megis y gwasanaeth iechyd, addysg, darparu tai a gofal cymdeithasol, ac yn arbennig, y pryderon sylweddol sy'n wynebu'r gwasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys prinder nyrsys a meddygon, methiannau systematig i gadw at amseroedd aros, gorwariant byrddau iechyd -
English: I think you do need to come to your third question now.
Welsh: Credaf fod angen i chi ddod at eich trydydd cwestiwn yn awr.
English: - continuing direct governmental control of Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board. I have asked you before, and I'll ask you again, and it'll go on record again: what discussions have you taken with your other Welsh Government Secretaries responsible for the delivery of those public services about working together in a strategic manner, or is it simply the case that those discussions haven't taken place, and this is simply you going off on a tangent to rehash old and tired plans that were firmly squashed once before?
Welsh: - parhad rheolaeth uniongyrchol y llywodraeth ar Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Rwyf wedi gofyn i chi o'r blaen, ac fe ofynnaf i chi eto, ac fe gaiff ei gofnodi eto: pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda'ch Ysgrifenyddion Llywodraeth Cymru eraill, sy'n gyfrifol am ddarparu'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hynny, ynglŷn â chydweithio mewn ffordd strategol, neu a yw'n wir nad yw'r trafodaethau hynny wedi digwydd, a'r hyn sydd gennym yma yw chi'n crwydro oddi ar y testun i ail-greu hen gynlluniau treuliedig a gafodd eu diddymu'n gadarn unwaith o'r blaen?
English: Members may be shocked to discover that we have conversations between different Ministers on an almost daily basis, and I've discussed this matter with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance this morning. I'll be discussing exactly this matter with the Cabinet Secretary for health at the conclusion of our business today. I'll be discussing these matters with other Ministers on a weekly basis. But, more than that, in answering this question, Presiding Officer, I want to go back to a different proposition. What we need in Wales - . And, actually, almost by accident, the Conservative spokesperson may be right about one thing, and that is that, over a period of 20 years, we have not reached an agreed, mature relationship with local government, and that is a responsibility not simply of this Cabinet Secretary, but a responsibility of this place, this institution, yes, the Government, and also local government. For me, what is important isn't a deal between politicians, whether it's in a back room or in the front room, but to work in the interests of the citizens of this country, to empower people, to ensure that we have democratic accountability in towns and county halls up and down Wales, and to devolve power from this place to centres of decision making across Wales and to ensure that we take care and protect the public service workers who are delivering our services. And do you know what all of those people have in common? Not one of them has suggested to me that we need more austerity or more Conservative policies. FootnoteLink
Welsh: Efallai y bydd yn syndod i'r Aelodau ganfod ein bod yn cael sgyrsiau rhwng gwahanol Weinidogion bron bob dydd, ac rwyf wedi trafod y mater hwn gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid y bore yma; byddaf yn trafod yr union fater hwn gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd ar ddiwedd ein busnes heddiw. Byddaf yn trafod y materion hyn gyda Gweinidogion eraill yn wythnosol. Ond yn fwy na hynny, i ateb y cwestiwn hwn, Lywydd, rwyf am fynd yn ôl at gynnig gwahanol. Yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom yng Nghymru - . Ac mewn gwirionedd, bron trwy ddamwain, efallai y bydd llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr yn gywir ynglŷn ag un peth: dros gyfnod o 20 mlynedd, nid ydym wedi cyrraedd perthynas aeddfed gytûn â llywodraeth leol, ac mae hynny'n gyfrifoldeb, nid yn unig i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet hwn, ond yn gyfrifoldeb i'r lle hwn, y sefydliad hwn, ie, y Llywodraeth, a llywodraeth leol hefyd. I mi, nid bargen rhwng gwleidyddion sy'n bwysig, boed mewn ystafell gefn neu mewn ystafell flaen, ond gweithio er budd dinasyddion y wlad hon, er mwyn grymuso pobl, i sicrhau bod gennym atebolrwydd democrataidd mewn trefi a neuaddau sir ar hyd a lled Cymru, ac i ddatganoli pŵer o'r lle hwn i ganolfannau gwneud penderfyniadau ledled Cymru, ac i sicrhau ein bod yn gwarchod ac yn amddiffyn gweithwyr gwasanaethau cyhoeddus tra'u bod yn cyflawni ein gwasanaethau. Ac a wyddoch chi beth sydd gan yr holl bobl hynny yn gyffredin? Nid oes yr un ohonynt wedi awgrymu wrthyf fod angen mwy o gyni neu fwy o bolisïau Ceidwadol. FootnoteLink
English: My views on support of proportional representation are well known and are already on the record. The policy of this Government has not changed since I made an oral statement on this matter in January.
Welsh: Mae fy marn ar gefnogaeth i gynrychiolaeth gyfrannol yn hysbys iawn ac maent eisoes wedi'u cofnodi. Nid yw polisi'r Llywodraeth hon wedi newid ers i mi wneud datganiad llafar ar y mater hwn ym mis Ionawr.
English: Right. I think that we may accept the difficulty of actually getting local councils run by the Labour Party, which do well under first-past-the-post, actually going towards a different system. I think you may actually recognise that that may be a problem. But we will move on. Another area where we have something of a democratic deficit in Wales is in the planning system. Many local communities feel completely disempowered. When they unite, form protest groups and campaign against unwanted local developments, like major roads and intensive housing projects, then they find that, despite almost total local opposition, the scheme gets planning permission regardless. UKIP contends that we should allow for a local referendum in this instance. The result would be legally binding. This policy would democratise the planning process. Again, thinking about your comments earlier about how to empower local citizens, would you think again about adopting this policy yourself?
Welsh: O'r gorau. Rwy'n credu y gallwn dderbyn yr anhawster o gael cynghorau lleol, a arweinir gan y Blaid Lafur, ac sy'n gwneud yn dda o dan drefn y cyntaf i'r felin, i newid i system wahanol. Rwy'n credu y gallech chi gydnabod y gallai hynny fod yn broblem. Ond fe symudwn ymlaen. Maes arall lle mae gennym ddiffyg democrataidd yng Nghymru yw'r system gynllunio. Mae llawer o gymunedau lleol yn teimlo nad oes ganddynt rym o gwbl pan fyddant yn uno i ffurfio grwpiau protest ac ymgyrchu yn erbyn datblygiadau lleol diangen, fel priffyrdd a phrosiectau tai mawr. Ac yna fe welant, er gwaethaf gwrthwynebiad lleol llwyr bron, fod y cynllun yn cael caniatâd cynllunio beth bynnag. Mae UKIP yn honni y dylem ganiatáu ar gyfer refferendwm lleol yn yr achos hwn. Byddai'r canlyniad yn gyfreithiol rwymol. Byddai'r polisi hwn yn democrateiddio'r broses gynllunio. Unwaith eto, gan feddwl am eich sylwadau yn gynharach ynglŷn â sut i rymuso dinasyddion lleol, a wnewch chi feddwl eto am fabwysiadu'r polisi hwn eich hun?
English: I think there are many arguments in favour of direct democracy and there are examples in different parts of the world of where it works well. California is a very good example, I think, parts of the United States - Switzerland might be an example of where, possibly, it doesn't work so well. But it's a part of a way of doing government - it isn't simply a policy that you can insert into a model that is otherwise designed to work in different ways. What is important to me is that we have accountability. I don't believe that we have effective accountability in all parts of Wales at the moment in terms of how we deliver local government. I want to strengthen that accountability, but I also want to see how we can ensure that we have a diversity in representation in local government. There have been a number of reports in front of this place over many, many years that have described the lack of diversity in local government. The Member for Arfon will be making a contribution later today on diversity in this place, and I will be looking towards how all our reform processes will strengthen both accountability and diversity in local government. But, for me, the absolute key ambition is empowerment and strengthened local decision making.
Welsh: Rwy'n credu bod yna lawer o ddadleuon o blaid democratiaeth uniongyrchol a cheir enghreifftiau mewn gwahanol rannau o'r byd lle mae'n gweithio'n dda. Mae Califfornia yn enghraifft dda iawn, rwy'n credu, a rhannau o'r Unol Daleithiau, a gallai'r Swistir fod yn enghraifft lle nad yw'n gweithio cystal o bosibl. Ond mae'n rhan o ffordd o lywodraethu - nid polisi ydyw y gallwch ei osod mewn model, a gynlluniwyd fel arall i weithio mewn gwahanol ffyrdd. Yr hyn sy'n bwysig i mi yw bod gennym atebolrwydd. Nid wyf yn credu bod gennym atebolrwydd effeithiol ym mhob rhan o Gymru ar hyn o bryd o ran sut rydym yn darparu llywodraeth leol ac rwyf am gryfhau'r atebolrwydd hwnnw, ond rwyf hefyd am weld sut y gallwn sicrhau bod gennym amrywiaeth o ran cynrychiolaeth mewn llywodraeth leol. Cafwyd nifer o adroddiadau ger bron y lle hwn dros nifer fawr o flynyddoedd a ddylai ddisgrifio'r diffyg amrywiaeth mewn llywodraeth leol. Bydd yr Aelod dros Arfon yn gwneud cyfraniad yn ddiweddarach heddiw, a byddaf yn edrych ar sut y bydd ein holl brosesau diwygio yn cryfhau atebolrwydd ac amrywiaeth mewn llywodraeth leol. Ond i mi, yr uchelgais gwirioneddol allweddol yw grymuso a chryfhau prosesau gwneud penderfyniadau lleol.
English: Diversity is something that we are about to explore on the local government committee, so we will, hopefully, feed into that process, and that is something that does concern us. You gave an interesting answer about the local referendum issue, citing the example of California, so I'm encouraged by that. Given your interest in these ideas and these different forms of democracy - representative democracy, direct democracy et cetera - I would be interested in how you look to incorporate these ideas going forward. Would you accept, though, at this stage, that there is a problem with public perception of the planning system in Wales - not just in Wales, but in the UK - and that it does seem to be unrepresentative of local citizenry?
Welsh: Mae amrywiaeth yn rhywbeth yr ydym ar fin ei archwilio yn y pwyllgor llywodraeth leol, felly byddwn yn bwydo i mewn i'r broses honno gobeithio, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n ymwneud â ni. Rhoesoch ateb diddorol ynglŷn â mater y refferendwm lleol, gan gyfeirio at Galiffornia fel enghraifft, felly mae hynny'n galondid. O gofio eich diddordeb yn y syniadau hyn a'r gwahanol ffurfiau ar ddemocratiaeth - democratiaeth gynrychioliadol, democratiaeth uniongyrchol ac ati - byddai'n ddiddorol gweld sut y ceisiwch ymgorffori'r syniadau hyn wrth symud ymlaen. Fodd bynnag, ar hyn o bryd, a fyddech yn derbyn bod yna broblem o ran canfyddiad y cyhoedd o'r system gynllunio yng Nghymru - nid yng Nghymru'n unig, ond yn y DU - a'i bod yn ymddangos fel pe na bai'n cynrychioli dinasyddion lleol yn ddigon da?