techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: In reality, it's the things like the right to have the Welsh language in reception areas and telephone conversations through the medium of Welsh, but what's the business of a college? It's to provide education, and the standards don't touch upon any rights in terms of that education.
Welsh: Mewn gwirionedd, maent am bethau fel hawl i gael y Gymraeg yn y dderbynfa, hawl i gael galwadau ffôn yn y Gymraeg, ond beth yw busnes coleg addysg bellach? Busnes coleg yw i ddarparu addysg ac nid yw'r safonau'n cyffwrdd ag unrhyw hawliau o ran addysg o gwbl.
English: Where, to an extent, the language schemes did, so that, in a way, has been dropped, and those are therefore part of the business, rather than the curriculum.
Welsh: Lle, i raddau, roedd y cynlluniau iaith yn cynnwys addysg, so mae hynny, mewn ffordd, wedi cael ei ddisgyn, ac mae'r rheini hefyd, wedyn, yn rhan o fusnes yn hytrach nag o ran y cwricwlwm.
English: So, in terms of our students' experience, perhaps they're not having the impact that we would like.
Welsh: Felly, o ran profiad ein myfyrwyr ni, nid ydyn nhw wir yn cael efallai'r effaith y buasem ni'n dymuno.
English: What I'd like to see is that standards are treated as living things that adapt and evolve consistently. With the old language schemes, once the scheme had been drafted, that was it. It then fossilised, in a way, after so many years because it was no longer fit for purpose. These standards are living standards and we have an opportunity in the current constitutional context. In the old system, you had a Welsh language Act, and another 25 years later and another 25 years hence, and there were huge problems in getting any sort of development. We've moved from there and, of course, the Assembly and the Government have an opportunity to take stock of a set of standards regularly and to adapt and change those. So, if that standard is ineffective because it changes nothing, it's expensive and there is no benefit to it, then scrap it and put another standard in place. I think that as long as that sort of mentality exists within the system, then it would react and bring about changes. That's what I would request.
Welsh: Beth hoffwn i ei weld ydy bod y safonau yma'n cael eu trin fel pethau byw sydd yn addasu'n gyson. Gyda'r hen gynlluniau iaith, unwaith yr oedd cynllun iaith wedi'i ddrafftio, wel, dyna fo, wedyn - dyna fo. A wedyn, wrth gwrs, roedd o'n ffosileiddio, mewn ffordd, ar ôl hyn a hyn o flynyddoedd oherwydd nid oedd o'n addasu i newid. Mae'r safonau yma'n bethau byw a chyfle sydd gennym ni, wrth gwrs, yn y cyd-destun cyfansoddiadol sydd ohoni. Yn yr hen drefn, Deddf iaith ac un arall ymhen chwarter canrif wedyn ac un arall ymhen chwarter canrif wedi hynny a'r holl helynt oedd i gael unrhyw fath o ddatblygiad. Rydym ni wedi symud o fanna, ac mae'r cyfle, wrth gwrs, gan y Cynulliad, gan y Llywodraeth i gymryd stoc o set o safonau yn rheolaidd a newid ac addasu. So, os ydy'r safon yna'n aneffeithiol oherwydd nid yw o'n newid dim byd mewn gwirionedd, mae'n gostus, nid oes yna ddim byd i neb ohono fo, yna, cael gwared arno fo, cael safon wahanol. Rydw i'n meddwl, cyd â bod y math yna o fentaliti'n dod i mewn i'r system, bydd o'n adweithio, wedyn, i newidiadau. Dyna fyddwn i'n gofyn amdano fo.
English: I think that that would perhaps allow for our resources and time to be directed towards the important work of promotion.
Welsh: Rydw i'n meddwl efallai y bydd hynny, wedyn, yn caniatáu i adnoddau ac amser gael eu symud i wneud y gwaith pwysig o hybu a hyrwyddo hefyd.
English: I would make the point also, in terms of what's important for the standards process, that it's not standardised for the institutions. We've gone through a very laborious process of challenging some standards and, as a result, we've had changes made to some of our standards. So, our standards aren't the same standards as yours. And is that the intention - that users don't know what their rights are, then, in going from one organisation to another organisation?
Welsh: Buaswn i'n gwneud y pwynt hefyd, o ran beth sydd yn bwysig am y broses safonau, nad yw e'n safonol i'r sefydliadau. Rŷm ni wedi bod trwy broses lafurus iawn gyda herio rhai safonau ac, yn sgil hynny, wedi cael newidiadau wedi'u gwneud i rai o'n safonau ni. Felly, nid yw'n safonau ni'r un peth â'ch safonau chi. Ac ai dyna beth yw pwrpas y peth, sef nad yw defnyddwyr yn gwybod beth yw eu hawliau nhw, wedyn, o fynd o un corff i gorff arall?
English: I don't think we'll lose it because we've got it already, and we're not keen to lose it. We're just asking for it, perhaps, to be tailored a little and to change it a little to bring benefit. I don't think we're going to lose that, but I think there is a big piece that is missing and that we're not doing at the moment because there aren't the resources and that everything is regulated - regulation seems to be the most important thing - . Regulation is extremely important, but there are things that are being lost.
Welsh: Nid wyf i'n meddwl y gwnawn ni ei golli o achos mae o gennym ni'n barod, ac nid ydym ni'n awyddus i'w golli o. Rŷm ni jest yn gofyn, efallai, i'w deilwra fo ychydig bach a'i newid o ychydig bach er budd. Nid wyf i'n meddwl ein bod ni'n mynd i golli hynny, ond rydw i'n meddwl bod yna ddarn mawr ar goll nad ydym ni'n ei wneud ar hyn o bryd, ac oherwydd nad oes yna'r adnoddau i gyd, a bod pob dim yn cael ei reoleiddio - mai rheoleiddio ydy'r peth pwysig - . Mae rheoleiddio'n andros o bwysig, ond mae yna bethau'n cael eu colli.
English: I'm not entirely sure if we need law to deal with promotion. If the problem is on the promotional side, I don't think you need new law. What you need is resources, structures, policies. It's those things that are needed now. The Measure deals with regulation, as would any Measure. Legislation creates the requirement, the duties. So, I don't know. Your question is entirely right, in that there is a risk that we lose the core of the current system by having lengthy discussions on the process of implementing standards: should we have a commissioner or a commission? But I think those are procedural things, and I do agree that we need to be guarded in not interfering too much and not interfering prematurely. I understand that we need to respond, but you do need to give something time to bed in.
Welsh: Nid wyf i'n gwbl siŵr os oes angen cyfraith neu Ddeddf i ddelio gyda hyrwyddo. Os mai'r diffyg ydy'r hyrwyddo, yr elfen honno, nid wyf yn siŵr os oes eisiau cyfraith newydd. Beth sydd ei eisiau ydy adnoddau, strwythura, polisïau - y pethau yna sydd eu hangen rŵan. Delio gyda'r elfen reoleiddio y mae'r Mesur, fel pob Mesur, a dweud y gwir; creu'r gofynion, y dyletswyddau yma mae cyfraith. Felly, nid wyf i'n gwybod. Mae'ch cwestiwn chi'n iawn - mae peryg inni golli rhuddin y drefn bresennol drwy gael trafodaethau hir ynglŷn â'r drefn o roi safonau ar waith: a ddylem ni gael comisiynydd neu gomisiwn, a'r pethau yma. Ond pethau gweithdrefnol ydy'r rheini, rydw i'n meddwl, ac rydw i'n cytuno bod angen gwyliadwriaeth rhag ymyrryd gormod, ac yn gynamserol hefyd. Rwyf yn deall yr angen i ymateb, ond mae angen rhoi ychydig o gyfle i rywbeth gael ei weithredu.
English: I think establishing a commission with a specific responsibility for promotion would give status to promotion because, at the moment, regulation is what is important. This is what we have to do. 'Oh, promotion, okay, we'll do that if we've got the time'. There is need for a shift, I think. So, I think establishing a commission would provide status for the work of promotion and co-ordination to bring everything together. There's a lot of good work happening in Wales - a lot of resources, a lot of money. There's a need to bring it all together to have the best possible impact.
Welsh: Rwyf yn meddwl byddai sefydlu comisiwn efo cyfrifoldeb penodol am hybu a hyrwyddo yn rhoi statws i hybu a hyrwyddo, achos, ar y funud, rheoleiddio sy'n bwysig; dyma beth sydd yn rhaid inni ei wneud. 'O, hybu a hyrwyddo, o, ie, iawn, gwnawn ni hynny, os oes gennym ni'r amser'. Mae angen sifft, rydw i'n meddwl. So, rydw i'n meddwl buasai sefydlu comisiwn yn rhoi statws i'r gwaith o hybu a hyrwyddo, a chydlynu a dod â phob dim ynghyd. Mae yna lot o waith da yn digwydd yng Nghymru - llawer iawn o adnoddau, llawer iawn o arian. Mae angen ei dynnu fo i gyd at ei gilydd er mwyn cael yr effaith orau bosib.
English: The honest answer is 'no,' if truth be told. 'No' would be the answer; I haven't been given the impression that there's been any response to that.
Welsh: Yr ateb gonest ydy 'na', nid mewn gwirionedd. 'Na', fyddai'r ateb. Nid wyf i wedi cael y syniad bod yna ryw adwaith wedi bod i hynny.
English: I think it has had an impact on us, to be honest, because we work very closely with the councils, and I think we've been part of their five-year promotion strategy in different areas. I think we've been part of that. So, I think it has, really.
Welsh: Rydw i'n meddwl ei fod o wedi cael effaith arnom ni, a bod yn onest, achos rydym ni'n cydweithio'n agos â'r cynghorau, ac rydw i'n meddwl ein bod ni wedi bod yn rhan o'u strategaeth hybu pum mlynedd nhw mewn gwahanol ardaloedd. Felly, rydw i'n meddwl ein bod ni wedi bod yn rhan o hynny. So, rydw i'n meddwl ei fod o wedi, a dweud y gwir.
English: I agree. To an extent, it has, certainly, but as you said, co-ordinating what local authorities are doing and ensuring that we are part of that has had an impact.
Welsh: Rwyf i'n cytuno. I raddau, mae e wedi, yn sicr, ond, fel y dywedaist ti, mae cydlynu beth mae'r awdurdodau lleol yn ei wneud a gwneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n rhan o hynny wedi cael effaith.
English: I think we feel that there is a need for new legislation in order to incorporate all these things. I think the standards and the Measure on its own aren't sufficient for what we're facing at the moment. We'll never get a million speakers just by regulating, as we're doing at the moment. There is a need to link with the education system and a number of other organisations that promote the language at the moment. There is a need to bring everything together, and I think legislation would enable us to do that.
Welsh: Rydw i'n meddwl ein bod ni'n teimlo bod angen deddfwriaeth newydd er mwyn ymgorffori'r holl bethau yma i mewn. Nid yw'r safonau a'r Mesur ar ben ei hun yn ddigonol i beth rydym ni'n wynebu ar hyn o bryd. Gawn ni byth miliwn o siaradwyr jest yn rheoleiddio fel rydym ni'n ei wneud ar y funud. Mae angen cyd-gysylltu efo'r system addysg a nifer o fudiadau eraill sy'n hyrwyddo'r iaith ar hyn o bryd. Mae angen dod â phob peth at ei gilydd, ac rydw i'n meddwl y byddai ddeddfwriaeth yn ein galluogi ni i wneud hynny.
English: Personally, if there were to be new legislation, we wouldn't want to see it being weakened in any way but it could, perhaps, be more fit for purpose. That would be my comment.
Welsh: Yn bersonol, petai yna ddeddfwriaeth newydd, ni fyddem ni'n croesawu iddi fod yn wannach mewn unrhyw ffordd, ond ei bod efallai'n fwy fit for purpose, buaswn i'n ei ddweud.
English: So, yes, if you can answer in the context of whether there are any international examples. Have you looked at the Basque Country and Canada, for example? Do you think that there is room for us to learn from those countries, or could they, perhaps, learn from us, so that we're leading the agenda?
Welsh: So, ie, os ydych chi'n gallu ateb yng nghyd-destun a oes yna enghreifftiau rhyngwladol? A ydych chi wedi edrych ar Wlad y Basg a Chanada, efallai? A ydych chi'n credu bod yna le i ni i ddysgu o'r gwledydd hynny, neu a ydyn nhw, efallai, yn gallu dysgu oddi wrthym ni, fel ein bod ni'n arwain yr agenda?
English: I think ColegauCymru has done a great deal of work internationally. We've been to the Basque Country and Catalonia, and have looked at good practice there, and there is good practice there. All public services in the Basque Country are required to have some level of language requirement, and that has had a huge impact on the number of speakers in that country. I also think that the usage - we have the same problems in Wales - of the Basque language isn't as strong as is the ability to speak it. So, I think in terms of language use, it's difficult. One looks at minority languages, and there are examples in Canada;. I was in Montreal recently, where French is the lingua franca and English is the minority language. In every hotel and every shop, French is the language spoken. For us to reach that point in Wales, we're looking at a century, I would say, at least. This is a slow process. So, there are examples of good practice internationally that we could learn from in terms of how they've got to that point. We tend not to look at Canada; we tend to focus on the Basque Country and Catalonia. But there is good practice there, and I think ColegauCymru is getting out there and seeing that work and reporting on that good practice.
Welsh: Rydw i'n meddwl bod ColegauCymru wedi gwneud llawer iawn o waith yn rhyngwladol - wedi bod yng Ngwlad y Basg a Chatalonia, ac wedi bod yn edrych ar arfer dda yn fanno, ac mae yna arfer dda yn fanno. Mae'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus i gyd yng Ngwlad y Basg, mae yna orfodaeth iddyn nhw gael rhyw lefel o Fasgeg, ac mae hynny wedi cael effaith anferthol ar nifer y siaradwyr sydd yna. Rydw i'n meddwl hefyd efallai nad yw defnydd o'r Fasgeg - yr un problemau ag sydd gennym ni yng Nghymru - cystal yn fanno ag ydy'r gallu i siarad Basgeg. Felly, rydw i'n meddwl, o ran y defnydd, mae'n anodd. Mae rhywun yn edrych ar ieithoedd lleiafrifol - mae yna enghreifftiau yng Nghanada. Roeddwn i ym Montreal yn ddiweddar, a Ffrangeg ydy'r iaith. Saesneg ydy'r iaith leiafrifol o bell ffordd. Ym mhob gwesty a phob siop, ym mhob man, Ffrangeg ydy'r iaith rydych chi'n siarad. I ni gyrraedd hynny yng Nghymru, rydym ni'n edrych ar ganrif, efallai. Mae hon yn broses araf. So, mae yna enghreifftiau o arfer dda yn fanna, rydw i'n meddwl, y buasem ni'n gallu dysgu ohonyn nhw a sut maen nhw wedi dod i'r pwynt yna, efallai. Ac nid ydym ni'n dueddol o edrych ar Ganada; rydym ni'n dueddol o edrych ar Wlad y Basg a Chatalonia. Mae yna arfer dda yna, rydw i'n meddwl, ac rydw i'n meddwl bod ColegauCymru'n mynd allan ac yn gwneud y gwaith hynny ac yn adrodd ar yr arfer dda.
English: Just to finish, do you have a view on the international context? Time is short.
Welsh: Jest i orffen, a oes barn gyda chi ynglŷn â'r cyd-destun rhyngwladol? Achos mae'r amser wedi mynd yn brin.
English: No; I don't have any expertise in that. I know that Colegau Cymru does go out to these minority countries, so we do have a lot of research work that we've done in this area that we could share with you, to that extent.
Welsh: Na, nac oes; nid oes arbenigedd gyda fi o gwbl. Rydw i'n gwybod bod Colegau Cymru yn mynd allan i'r gwledydd lleiafrifol i edrych, so mae gennym ni lot o waith ymchwil yr ydym ni wedi'i wneud yn y meysydd yna y gallem ni rhannu efo chi, yn hynny o beth.
English: That would be a great help to us, because I think there is a move for us to go and see something perhaps in the Basque Country, if that is approved, and therefore we'd be interested to look at that.
Welsh: Byddai hynny yn help mawr inni, achos rydw i'n credu bod yna symudiad inni fynd i weld rhywbeth yng Ngwlad y Basg, efallai, os yw hynny yn cael ei gymeradwyo, ac felly byddem gennym ni -
English: I will arrange for that to be shared.
Welsh: Gwnaf drefnu rhannu hynny.
English: Thank you very much for coming in. If there's any additional information that you'd like to share with us, please write to us. Time has beaten us this morning, so thank you very much for attending today.
Welsh: - diddordeb i edrych ar hynny. Diolch yn fawr iawn ichi am ddod mewn. Os oes yna wybodaeth ychwanegol yr ydych am rannu gyda ni, plîs ysgrifennwch atom ni. Mae amser wedi mynd ar goll y bore yma. Felly, diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am ddod mewn atom ni heddiw.
English: Two seconds of a break.
Welsh: Dwy eiliad o seibiant.
English: Thank you very much. Welcome to the committee. Item 4, supporting and promoting the Welsh language: an inquiry into the legislative policy and wider context. Welcome to Dr Ioan Matthews, chief executive of the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, Rebecca Williams, deputy general secretary and policy officer, UCAC, and Dr Gwenllian Lansdown Davies, chief executive of Mudiad Meithrin. Welcome to you all and thank you for coming in today. As usual, we have questions based on different themes, so we'll go straight to questions, if that's okay with you, and David Melding will start.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn a chroeso i'r pwyllgor. Eitem 4, cefnogi a hybu'r Gymraeg: ymchwiliad i'r cyd-destun deddfwriaethol. Croeso i Dr Ioan Matthews, prif weithredwr Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, Rebecca Williams, sef dirprwy ysgrifennydd cyffredinol a swyddog polisi, UCAC, ac wedyn Dr Gwenllian Lansdown Davies, sef prif weithredwr Mudiad Meithrin. Croeso ichi am ddod atom heddiw. Fel arfer, mae gennym gwestiynau ar sail themâu gwahanol, felly awn ni yn syth i gwestiynau, os mae hynny'n iawn gyda chi. Mae David Melding am gychwyn gyda'r cwestiynau.
English: I think there is a preconception now that the standards are doing everything that needs to be done, which is very far from being true. That is, yes, they have a very important role, as far as they go, but the example I gave in the evidence was in the context of the Additional Learning Needs and Education Tribunal (Wales) Act 2018, and we had to argue, really, with the civil servants to say that the standards don't encompass schools. They do encompass local authorities and some of their responsibilities, but not the responsibilities that we are discussing here. So, there was this preconception that there was no need for clauses in this Act in terms of ensuring that some things were happening through the medium of Welsh or that there was a right to receive them through the medium of Welsh, and that preconception was wrong. I think there is a danger, then, that we rely too much on this feeling that standards are in place without questioning enough what their length and breadth are and also that all of this justifies and points in the direction of the need for some statutory legislative elements in relation to education, because the standards don't really relate to what needs to be done.
Welsh: Rydw i'n credu bod yna ragdybiaeth nawr fod y safonau'n gwneud popeth sydd angen ei wneud, sydd yn bell iawn o fod yn wir. Hynny yw, mae yna rôl bwysig iawn i'r safonau hyd y maen nhw'n mynd, ond yr enghraifft roddais i yn y dystiolaeth oedd yng nghyd-destun Deddf Anghenion Dysgu Ychwanegol a'r Tribiwnlys Addysg (Cymru) 2018, a bu'n rhaid inni gael dadl, wir, â gweision sifil i ddweud nad yw'r safonau yn cwmpasu ysgolion. Maen nhw'n cwmpasu awdurdodau lleol a rhai o gyfrifoldebau awdurdodau lleol, ond fel mae'n digwydd, nid y cyfrifoldebau rŷm ni'n eu trafod fan hyn. Felly, roedd yna ragdybiaeth nad oedd angen cymalau yn y ddeddfwriaeth anghenion dysgu ychwanegol mewn perthynas â sicrhau bod rhai pethau yn digwydd drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg neu fod hawl i'w cael nhw drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ac roedd hynny'n rhagdybiaeth anghywir. Rydw i'n credu bod yna beryg, wedyn, ein bod ni'n gorffwys gormod ar y teimlad braf bod safonau'n yn eu lle heb gwestiynu digon beth yw eu hyd a'u lled nhw, a hefyd fod hyn i gyd yn cyfiawnhau hefyd a phwyntio i gyfeiriad yr angen am rai elfennau statudol deddfwriaethol mewn perthynas â byd addysg, oherwydd nid yw'r safonau yn wir yn gwneud yr hyn sydd angen ei wneud.
English: That was an example that I was going to use, in that Mudiad Meithrin and UCAC did collaborate on some of the civil service's incorrect presumptions in drawing up legislation in relation to a child's rights to services when they have additional learning needs. But I also think that we need to look at the conditions that allow a right to exist. Rights are important, and we can't take them for granted, but they will be limited unless there is provision available on the ground. Because it is easy to tell a parent, 'Well, you have a right to send your child on an hour-and-a-half bus journey to a Welsh language school; therefore, you have a right to Welsh-medium education', but in reality, it's provision on the ground, locally, that's needed in order to enable people, both parents and carers, to exercise those rights. Therefore, rights are important as a driver, but planning, provision and investment at a local level is just as important, because there are very many parents who fall into the Welsh-medium care and education sector, because it's conveniently available, and that's fine by me, because the outcome is the same: the creation of bilingual or multilingual citizens.
Welsh: Dyna esiampl yr oeddwn i'n mynd i'w defnyddio, a dweud bod Mudiad Meithrin ac UCAC wedi cydweithio ar rai o ragdybiaethau anghywir y gwasanaeth sifil wrth lunio deddfwriaeth yn ymwneud â hawl plentyn i wasanaeth pan fo ganddo anghenion dysgu ychwanegol. Ond rydw i'n meddwl hefyd fod rhaid inni edrych ar yr amodau sydd yn galluogi hawl i fodoli. Hynny yw, mae hawliau, wrth gwrs, yn bwysig - fedrwn ni ddim eu cymryd nhw'n ganiataol - ond cyfyng fyddan nhw os nad oes yna ddarpariaeth llawr gwlad ar gael, oherwydd mae'n hawdd dweud wrth riant, 'O, mae gennych chi hawl i yrru'ch plentyn am awr a hanner ar fws i fynd i ysgol Gymraeg; felly, mae gennych chi hawl i addysg Gymraeg', ond mewn gwirionedd, darpariaeth llawr gwlad yn lleol sydd ei angen er mwyn galluogi pobl, yn rhieni ac yn ofalwyr, i allu arddel eu hawliau. Felly, mae hawliau yn bwysig fel gyriant, ond mae cynllunio, darparu a buddsoddi ar lefel leol cyn bwysiced, oherwydd mae yna lawer iawn o rieni sydd yn disgyn i mewn i'r sector addysg a gofal cyfrwng Cymraeg oherwydd ei bod yn gyfleus ac ar gael, ac mae hynny'n iawn gen i, achos yr un ydy'r canlyniad, sef creu dinasyddion dwyieithog, os nag amlieithog.
English: And I think that behind that planning on a local level, there is a need for a national driver from the Welsh Government, and I think that that is core to that.
Welsh: Ac rydw i'n credu y tu ôl i'r cynllunio hynny ar lefel leol, mae'n rhaid wrth yriant cenedlaethol gan Lywodraeth Cymru, onid oes? A dyna sy'n greiddiol i lwyddiant hynny.
English: And it includes workforce planning, of course, because without the relevant workforce, then those services will not be available.
Welsh: Ac mae'n cynnwys cynllunio gweithluoedd perthnasol hefyd, achos heb y rheini fydd yna ddim gwasanaethau.