English: Can I thank the Minister for his statement, and commend the approach of having a conversation, although I would urge some urgency in the conversation, because we've been talking about these things for over 20 years now? I can remember a commission for the long-term care of the elderly reporting in the year 2000 about various things that we're still discussing now, and there's been no work in the meantime. So, while commending the approach, I do think we need some urgency and fleetness of foot. Because it was Aneurin Bevan who removed the fear of paying for healthcare individually by effectively making everybody pay. Regardless of your risk, regardless of your health status, regardless of your personal usage of the healthcare system, everybody pays through general taxation: the nation pooling its collective risk to free the individual from paying for that risk individually - in other words, not having to sell his or her home to pay for healthcare as a result. We've accepted that for healthcare, and people wouldn't expect, having a conversation with their GP, that I would have to balance the cost vis-à-vis why they should sell their home. We don't have that conversation in health; we have it for social care, though, because, in contrast, people pay for social care individually. Huge costs can be incurred. Your home is at risk, and people have had to sell their homes to finance their long-term social care, because the risk is borne individually, and, therefore, the costs are paid individually, not by the whole nation as a collective. That's why I think we need a national care service, financed by general taxation, exactly like the NHS, and with national terms and conditions for fully employed staff as well. Let's look at care exactly like we look at health, because, after all, 80 per cent of social care costs now, today, are paid for by public funds. They're publicly funded now - 80 per cent of social care costs are publicly funded now. So, Minister, can you confirm whether any type of social care levy will transfer the financial risk from the individual to the nation? And is not your home still at risk with any type of levy or funding that's targeted at a group of individuals, as opposed to everybody? Isn't your home still at risk when paying a social care levy? After all, in closing, Aneurin Bevan's victory against all odds, including medical opposition and huge vested interests saying it was too complicated, too hard, and too expensive, exactly like we're saying now about social care - that's what Aneurin Bevan faced down at the time, by sheer force of political will, which is why I'm such a fan of his. His victory was to remove the fear of paying for your individual healthcare. We face the same challenge with paying for social care individually today - some of us sooner than others. Thank you.
Welsh: A gaf i ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad, a chymeradwyo'r dull o gynnal trafodaeth? Er hynny fe fyddwn i'n annog rhyw gymaint o frys yn y drafodaeth, gan ein bod ni wedi bod yn trafod y pethau hyn ers dros 20 mlynedd erbyn hyn? Rwy'n cofio comisiwn ar gyfer gofal hirdymor i'r henoed yn adrodd yn y flwyddyn 2000 am wahanol bethau yr ydym ni'n eu trafod o hyd, ac nid oes unrhyw waith wedi digwydd yn y cyfamser. Felly, er fy mod i'n cymeradwyo'r dull, rwy'n credu bod angen dangos rhywfaint o frys a chwimder. Aneurin Bevan waredodd y bobl rhag yr ofn o dalu am ofal iechyd yn unigol drwy wneud i bawb dalu amdano. Nid oes gwahaniaeth beth yw eich risg chi, nid oes gwahaniaeth beth yw eich statws iechyd chi, na beth yw eich defnydd personol chi o'r system gofal iechyd, mae pawb yn talu drwy drethiant cyffredinol: y genedl yn cyfuno ei risg gyfunol i ryddhau'r unigolyn rhag talu am y risg honno'n unigol - mewn geiriau eraill, nid oes raid iddo werthu ei gartref i dalu am ofal iechyd o ganlyniad i hynny. Rydym wedi derbyn yr egwyddor honno ar gyfer gofal iechyd, ac ni fyddai pobl yn disgwyl, wrth gael sgwrs gyda'u meddyg teulu, y byddai'n rhaid imi gydbwyso'r gost ynglŷn â pham y dylen nhw werthu eu cartref. Nid ydym yn cael y drafodaeth honno ym maes iechyd; ond rydym ni'n ei chael hi ar gyfer gofal cymdeithasol, serch hynny, oherwydd, mewn cyferbyniad, mae pobl yn talu'n unigol am ofal cymdeithasol. Fe all costau aruthrol godi. Mae eich cartref chi mewn perygl, ac mae pobl wedi gorfod gwerthu eu cartrefi i ariannu eu gofal cymdeithasol hirdymor, oherwydd mae'r risg yn cael ei hysgwyddo gan unigolion, ac, felly, mae'r costau'n cael eu talu gan unigolion, nid gan y genedl gyfan yn dorfol. Dyna pam rwy'n credu bod angen gwasanaeth gofal cenedlaethol arnom ni, wedi cael ei ariannu gan drethiant cyffredinol, yn union fel y GIG, a chyda thelerau ac amodau cenedlaethol ar gyfer staff sy'n cael eu cyflogi'n llawn hefyd. Gadewch inni ystyried gofal yn union fel yr ydym ni'n ystyried iechyd, oherwydd, wedi'r cyfan, mae arian cyhoeddus yn talu am 80 y cant o gostau gofal cymdeithasol nawr. Maent yn cael eu hariannu'n gyhoeddus nawr - fe gaiff 80 y cant o gostau gofal cymdeithasol eu hariannu'n gyhoeddus nawr. Felly, Gweinidog, a wnewch chi gadarnhau y bydd unrhyw fath o ardoll gofal cymdeithasol yn trosglwyddo'r risg ariannol oddi wrth yr unigolyn ac i'r genedl? Ac onid yw eich cartref chi'n parhau i fod mewn perygl gydag unrhyw fath o ardoll neu gyllid a gaiff ei anelu at grŵp o unigolion, yn hytrach nag at bawb? Onid yw eich cartref chi'n parhau i fod mewn perygl wrth dalu ardoll gofal cymdeithasol? Wedi'r cyfan, wrth gloi, roedd buddugoliaeth Aneurin Bevan yn groes i bob disgwyl, gan gynnwys gwrthwynebiad meddygol a buddiannau breintiedig enfawr yn dweud bod hynny'n rhy gymhleth, yn rhy anodd, ac yn rhy ddrud, yn union fel yr ydym ni'n ei ddweud am ofal cymdeithasol nawr - dyna oedd Aneurin Bevan wedi ei wrthsefyll ar y pryd, trwy rym ewyllys gwleidyddol, a dyna pam yr wyf i'n gymaint o edmygwr ohono. Ei fuddugoliaeth ef oedd dileu'r ofn yr oedd gorfod talu am eich gofal iechyd yn unigol yn ei olygu. Rydym ni'n wynebu'r un her wrth dalu am ofal cymdeithasol yn unigol heddiw - rai ohonom yn gynharach nag eraill yn ein plith. Diolch.