English: Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm grateful, I must say at the beginning, to Russell George for agreeing to accept, I think he said, our amendment 2 and our amendment 7, because the motion as it stands slightly reads like something that one might have seen in the 1980s, which implies that we can solve all of our economic woes by building more roads. I'm sure, from what Russell George has said in his responses to Huw Irranca-Davies, that isn't what he meant. But I do have to point out, Dirprwy Lywydd, that that is what the motion says. Nobody is denying for a moment that we will need to continue to invest in our road networks. I think the points that Russell George has made about the importance of that in rural communities, where it may very well be that some of those can never be effectively served by public transport networks - . And, on these benches, it's really important to us that those communities are supported and maintained, because, among other things, many of those communities are communities where Welsh is still a native language, where it's still spoken on a daily basis. And, so, we will need to continue to invest in our roads. Nobody on these benches is denying that. But it's not the whole solution. And I think that has been acknowledged. And we do know - and I commend the couple of really good academic studies on this, thinking particularly about what's been said today about the proposed M4 relief road - that the truth is that, over time, you build a road and it fills up. I will quote two of the studies. There's 'Demystifying Induced Travel Demand' written by Roger Gorham for the German Finance Ministry, and 'The Fundamental Law of Road Congestion: Evidence from US Cities' by Duranton and Turner for the 'American Economic Review'. And what they show is that you can't, long term, alleviate these problems by just covering up more of the countryside with concrete. Now, that isn't to say for a moment that something doesn't need to be done about the issues around Newport. I think everybody in this Chamber - . All of us have driven that road or travelled on that road probably at some point, and we all know what happens at the Brynglas tunnels. But we don't believe for a moment that covering a really important site of special scientific interest with more concrete is going to solve that problem, long term. It is true to say that 43 per cent of the journeys made on that section of the M4 in question are journeys of under 20 miles, and many of those are journeys that, with proper public transport solutions, people would not choose to make by car. Ten per cent of the traffic on that stretch is what leads to the congestion. So, if we could take half of that 43 per cent of people off that road - and I say 'people' advisedly, because they are people who are in empty vehicles, just them and one other person a lot of the time - we could deal with that congestion problem. Now, the other issue, of course, with the M4 relief road is that it would take seven years to build. Even if we decided to do it, it would take seven years to build. And, in the meantime, Brynglas tunnel misery would continue to be a day-to-day reality.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n ddiolchgar, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud i gychwyn, i Russell George am gytuno i dderbyn, credaf iddo ddweud, ein gwelliant 2 a'n gwelliant 7, gan fod y cynnig fel y mae yn swnio braidd fel rhywbeth y gallai rhywun fod wedi'i weld yn y 1980au, sy'n awgrymu y gallwn ddatrys ein holl broblemau economaidd drwy adeiladu mwy o ffyrdd. Rwy'n siŵr, o'r hyn y mae Russell George wedi'i ddweud yn ei ymatebion i Huw Irranca-Davies, nad dyna a olygai. Ond mae'n rhaid i mi nodi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, mai dyna mae'r cynnig yn ei ddweud. Nid oes unrhyw un yn gwadu am eiliad y bydd angen inni barhau i fuddsoddi yn ein rhwydweithiau ffyrdd. Credaf fod y pwyntiau a wnaed gan Russell George ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd hynny mewn cymunedau gwledig, lle mae'n ddigon posibl na all rhai ohonynt byth gael eu gwasanaethu'n effeithiol gan rwydweithiau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus - . Ac ar y meinciau hyn, mae'n bwysig iawn i ni fod y cymunedau hynny'n cael eu cefnogi a'u cynnal, oherwydd ymhlith pethau eraill, mae llawer o'r cymunedau hynny'n gymunedau lle mae'r Gymraeg yn dal i fod yn iaith frodorol, lle mae'n dal i gael ei siarad yn ddyddiol. Ac felly, bydd angen i ni barhau i fuddsoddi yn ein ffyrdd. Nid oes unrhyw un ar y meinciau hyn yn gwadu hynny. Ond nid dyna'r ateb cyfan. A chredaf fod hynny wedi cael ei gydnabod. A gwyddom - ac rwy'n cymeradwyo'r un neu ddwy o astudiaethau academaidd da iawn ar hyn, yn arbennig mewn perthynas â'r hyn a ddywedwyd heddiw am ffordd liniaru arfaethedig yr M4 - mai'r gwir yw eich bod, dros amser, yn adeiladu ffordd ac yna mae'n llenwi. Rwyf am ddyfynnu dwy o'r astudiaethau. Ysgrifennwyd 'Demystifying Induced Travel Demand' gan Roger Gorham ar gyfer Gweinyddiaeth Cyllid yr Almaen, a 'The Fundamental Law of Road Congestion: Evidence from US Cities' gan Duranton a Turner ar gyfer yr 'American Economic Review'. A'r hyn y maent yn ei ddangos yw na allwch, yn y tymor hir, leddfu'r problemau hyn drwy orchuddio mwy o gefn gwlad â choncrit. Nawr, nid yw hynny'n golygu am eiliad nad oes angen gwneud rhywbeth am y problemau o amgylch Casnewydd. Credaf fod pawb yn y Siambr hon - . Mae pob un ohonom, mae'n debyg, wedi gyrru ar hyd y ffordd honno neu wedi teithio ar y ffordd honno ar ryw adeg, a gŵyr pob un ohonom beth sy'n digwydd yn nhwneli Bryn-glas. Ond ni chredwn am eiliad y bydd gorchuddio safle o ddiddordeb gwyddonol arbennig gyda mwy o goncrit yn datrys y broblem honno yn y tymor hir. Mae'n wir dweud bod 43 y cant o'r siwrneiau ar y rhan honno o'r M4 yn deithiau o dan 20 milltir, ac mae llawer o'r rheini'n deithiau na fyddai pobl, gydag atebion trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus addas, yn dewis eu gwneud mewn car. Deg y cant o'r traffig ar y darn hwnnw o ffordd sy'n arwain at y tagfeydd. Felly, pe gallem fynd â hanner y 43 y cant hwnnw o bobl oddi ar y ffordd honno - a dywedaf 'pobl' yn fwriadol, gan mai pobl mewn cerbydau gwag ydynt, dim ond nhw ac un unigolyn arall lawer o'r amser - gallem ymdrin â phroblem y tagfeydd hynny. Nawr, y mater arall, wrth gwrs, gyda ffordd liniaru'r M4 yw y byddai'n cymryd saith mlynedd i'w hadeiladu. Hyd yn oed pe baem yn penderfynu ei hadeiladu, byddai'n cymryd saith mlynedd. Ac yn y cyfamser, byddai diflastod twneli Bryn-glas yn parhau i fod yn realiti o ddydd i ddydd.