English: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I'm grateful to all Members who've taken the time to contribute to the debate this afternoon. This is an important debate for all of us, on all sides of this Chamber, because the way that we deal with the criminal justice system is fundamental to the way in which we order and manage our public services in Wales. And let me say this to Mark Isherwood: we need to do more than simply rehearse lines to take in this debate. We need to have a real debate about how we manage the criminal justice system. And that means a debate about how we provide health services on the secure estate, how we deliver education on the secure estate, how we ensure that there are in place the sorts of policies and approaches that can deal with issues like the substance abuse issues that you've raised, Mark, and also some of the issues of mental health that Leanne Wood raised in her contribution. It is important that we are able to do that, and that is why the devolution of these matters isn't a dry academic debate. It isn't a matter for a seminar or a conversation in a university or something. This is a debate that matters to people and this is a debate the consequences of which will have a profound effect on people's lives up and down the country. We need to be able to have a coherent approach to substance abuse. We need to have a coherent approach to dealing with issues of mental health on the secure estate. And, at the moment, we are simply unable to do it. And what is worse, this, as far as I can see, is the only part of our responsibilities or the delivery of public services where not only is the Welsh Government unable to deliver the policies it would choose to do so because of a poor settlement, but also the United Kingdom Government is unable to do so. And, Mark, I understand the points that you're seeking to make, but, at the moment, we do not have a settlement where either Government responsible for the delivery of services in this country is able to deliver a coherent and holistic approach to policy. And the people who suffer are not the people who sit in places like this, but the people who are currently on the secure estate in Wales and those others across the criminal justice system. And I understand - and I hope that people won't simply see the Wales Governance report and conversations about the quality of facilities and the quality of investment in the estate as criticism of either the people who are working within the system or criticism of those who are seeking to do their best in very, very difficult circumstances. We recognise that the issues we're facing today are issues of history, where we recognise that the investment has not been made in order to create an estate that delivers the sort of ethos and the approach and the policy that we require. And the points that have been made - which I think were very well made by Leanne Wood and John Griffiths - on rehabilitation will form the basis of any approach of this Government. The issues that Leanne Wood raised about the place of women in the system are well made and it is not the purpose of this Government simply to build a women's prison in Wales. Let me say that absolutely clearly. That's not the purpose of this Government or - [ Interruption.] He is. Or the approach that we're seeking to take. I'll be visiting Scotland later this month to talk to the Scottish Government about how they're developing a secure women's centre and how we can deliver support for women and families in the system to ensure that we don't have the sort of structural failure that we have today. And I hope that the staff who are in the service today will be able to help us create the service of the future. And the points I felt that John Griffiths made on rehabilitation and shorter sentences are exactly the points that we want to address. The Ministry of Justice has already begun to address some of those points in terms of a sentencing policy. Let me say this: in the time that I have been in office, I have met with all the relevant Ministry of Justice Ministers. I intend to continue meeting those Ministers over the coming months to ensure that we have a relationship where we are able to debate and discuss these matters. The blueprints that we are looking to develop at the moment have been developed as part of work alongside the Ministry of Justice and the Home Office. But let me say this, and let me conclude with this short remark, Deputy Presiding Officer: these matters are not simply matters about an academic review of the settlement. This is about real people who are being failed today, tomorrow, who are being failed by us in this system, who are being failed by a system of government that doesn't deliver for people in this country. It is important that all of us recognise the human consequences of these matters. I sat in a cell in Cardiff over the summer and talked to two people who are being held in Cardiff. They are both due for release around this time. They both require services, they both need help in terms of mental health, they both need help in terms of substance abuse. They will also require help in being able to be trained to work, they will need help in terms of where they live, where they're going to be sleeping tonight or tomorrow night. It is our responsibility to get those things right. It is our responsibility to ensure that those two men I spoke to don't end up back in the criminal justice system. It is our responsibility to ensure that the woman who was released to travel back to Newport on a Friday afternoon has somewhere to sleep on Friday night. It is our responsibility to get these things right, and it is a measure of us as a Parliament and a people: our determination to ensure that the most vulnerable people in our society are not let down by politicians who can't agree on what we need to do. Thank you very much.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cymryd yr amser i gyfrannu at y ddadl y prynhawn yma. Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig i bob un ohonom, ar bob ochr i'r Siambr hon, oherwydd mae'r ffordd yr ydym yn ymdrin â system cyfiawnder troseddol yn sylfaenol i'r ffordd yr ydym yn trefnu ac yn rheoli ein gwasanaethau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. A gadewch imi ddweud hyn wrth Mark Isherwood: mae angen inni wneud mwy na dim ond ymarfer llinellau i'w dilyn yn y ddadl hon. Mae angen inni gael dadl go iawn am sut yr ydym yn rheoli'r system cyfiawnder troseddol. Ac mae hynny'n golygu dadl ynglŷn â sut yr ydym yn darparu iechyd mewn sefydliadau diogel, sut yr ydym yn darparu addysg mewn sefydliadau diogel, sut yr ydym yn sicrhau y rhoddir ar waith y mathau o bolisïau a'r dulliau hynny a all ymdrin â'r materion fel problemau camddefnyddio cyffuriau yr ydych wedi'u codi, Mark, a hefyd rhai o'r materion iechyd meddwl a gododd Leanne Wood yn ei chyfraniad. Mae'n bwysig ein bod yn gallu gwneud hynny, a dyna pam nad yw datganoli'r materion hyn yn ddadl academaidd sych. Nid yw'n fater ar gyfer seminar neu sgwrs mewn prifysgol neu rywbeth. Mae hon yn ddadl o bwys i bobl, ac y mae hon yn ddadl y bydd ei chanlyniadau yn effeithio'n fawr ar fywydau pobl ar hyd a lled y wlad. Mae angen inni allu cael dull cydlynol o gam-drin sylweddau. Mae angen inni gael dull cydlynol o ymdrin â materion iechyd meddwl mewn sefydliadau diogel. Ac, ar hyn o bryd, nid ydym yn gallu gwneud hyn. A beth sy'n waeth, dyma, hyd y gwelaf fi, yw'r unig ran o'n cyfrifoldebau neu ddarparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus lle nid yn unig y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn methu cyflawni polisïau y byddai'n dymuno eu gwneud oherwydd setliad gwael, ond hefyd y mae Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn methu â gwneud hynny. A, Mark, rwy'n deall y pwyntiau yr ydych chi'n ceisio eu gwneud, ond, ar hyn o bryd, nid oes gennym setliad pryd gall y naill Lywodraeth sy'n gyfrifol am ddarparu gwasanaethau yn y wlad hon sicrhau dull cydlynol a chyfannol o ran polisi. A'r bobl sy'n dioddef yw nid y bobl sy'n eistedd mewn mannau fel hyn, ond y bobl sydd ar hyn o bryd yn y sefydliadau diogel yng Nghymru a rhai eraill ar draws y system cyfiawnder troseddol. Ac rwy'n deall - a gobeithio na fydd pobl yn gweld adroddiad Llywodraethiant Cymru a sgyrsiau am ansawdd y cyfleusterau ac ansawdd y buddsoddi yn yr ystâd fel beirniadaeth ar y bobl sy'n gweithio o fewn y system nac yn feirniadaeth ar y rhai sy'n ceisio gwneud eu gorau mewn amgylchiadau anodd iawn, iawn. Rydym yn cydnabod bod y materion sy'n ein hwynebu heddiw yn faterion o hanes, lle'r ydym yn cydnabod na wnaed y buddsoddiad er mwyn creu ystad sy'n darparu'r math o ethos a dull a pholisi sydd yn ofynnol gennym. A bydd y pwyntiau a wnaed - a chredaf eu bod wedi cael eu gwneud yn dda iawn gan Leanne Wood a John Griffiths - ar adsefydlu yn sail i unrhyw ymagwedd y Llywodraeth hon. Mae'r materion a gododd Leanne Wood am le menywod yn y system wedi'u cyflwyno'n dda ac nid diben y Llywodraeth hon yw adeiladu carchar i fenywod yng Nghymru. Gadewch imi ddweud hynny'n gwbl glir. Nid dyna yw diben y Llywodraeth hon na - [ Torri ar draws.] Mae ef. Na'r dull gweithredu yr ydym ni'n bwriadu ei gymryd. Byddaf yn ymweld â'r Alban yn ddiweddarach y mis hwn i siarad â Llywodraeth yr Alban am sut y maen nhw'n datblygu canolfan ddiogel i fenywod a sut y gallwn ni ddarparu cymorth i fenywod a theuluoedd yn y system i sicrhau nad oes gennym y math o fethiant strwythurol sydd gennym ni heddiw. Ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y staff sydd yn y gwasanaeth heddiw yn gallu ein helpu i sicrhau gwasanaeth y dyfodol. Ac mae'r pwyntiau yr oeddwn yn teimlo a wnaeth John Griffiths ar adsefydlu a dedfrydau byrrach yr union bwyntiau yr ydym am roi sylw iddyn nhw. Mae'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder eisoes wedi dechrau mynd i'r afael â rhai o'r pwyntiau hynny o ran polisi dedfrydu. Gadewch imi ddweud hyn: yn yr amser yr wyf i wedi bod yn y swydd, rwyf wedi cwrdd â holl Weinidogion perthnasol y weinyddiaeth gyfiawnder. Rwy'n bwriadu parhau i gwrdd â'r Gweinidogion hynny dros y misoedd nesaf i sicrhau bod gennym ni berthynas lle'r ydym yn gallu dadlau a thrafod y materion hyn. Mae'r glasbrintiau yr ydym yn ceisio eu datblygu ar hyn o bryd wedi eu datblygu yn rhan o'r gwaith ochr yn ochr â'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder a'r Swyddfa Gartref. Ond gadewch i mi ddweud hyn, a gadewch imi gloi gyda'r sylw byr hwn, Dirprwy Lywydd: nid yw'r materion hyn yn faterion am adolygiad academaidd y setliad yn unig. Mae hyn yn ymwneud â phobl go iawn sydd yn cael eu siomi heddiw, yfory, sydd yn cael eu siomi gennym ni yn y system hon, sydd yn cael eu siomi gan system o Lywodraeth nad yw'n darparu ar gyfer pobl yn y wlad hon. Mae'n bwysig bod pob un ohonom yn cydnabod canlyniadau dynol y materion hyn. Eisteddais mewn cell yng Nghaerdydd dros yr haf a siarad â dau o bobl sydd yn cael eu cadw yn y ddalfa yng Nghaerdydd. Mae'r ddau i fod i gael eu rhyddhau tua'r adeg hon. Bydd y ddau angen gwasanaethau, bydd y ddau angen cymorth o ran iechyd meddwl, bydd y ddau angen cymorth o ran camddefnyddio sylweddau. Byddan nhw hefyd angen cymorth o ran gallu cael eu hyfforddi i weithio, bydd angen cymorth o ran lle maen nhw'n byw, lle byddan nhw'n cysgu heno a nos yfory. Ein cyfrifoldeb ni yw unioni'r pethau hynny. Ein cyfrifoldeb ni yw sicrhau nad yw'r ddau ddyn y siaradais â hwy yn mynd yn eu holau i'r system cyfiawnder troseddol. Ein cyfrifoldeb ni yw sicrhau bod gan y fenyw a gafodd ei rhyddhau i deithio yn ôl i Gasnewydd ar brynhawn dydd Gwener rywle i gysgu nos Wener. Ein cyfrifoldeb ni yw cael y pethau hyn yn iawn, a dyma sy'n ein mesur ni fel Senedd a phobl: ein penderfyniad i sicrhau nad yw'r bobl fwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas yn cael eu siomi gan wleidyddion na allant gytuno ar yr hyn y mae angen inni ei wneud. Diolch yn fawr iawn.