English: Okay. Well, the research for that has come from the work of Dr Elin Jones, who did the preliminary work for the Cwricwlwm Cymreig back in 2013 and 2015, and there's much more recent evidence that has come from Martin Johnes, I think, from Swansea University, which shows that, while that is available to teachers to teach, the huge majority of them don't pick up on those modules. And the huge majority - and it is a huge majority; I'm sorry, I don't have the details with me, but I'm sure we can get it to you - is that - . It's the Nazis and America that are taking up the majority of the curriculum time. And, as the Minister said, there are elements in that where, actually, the connection with Wales and how that helps us look at ourselves is really important, but I'm not convinced, based on the little survey I've done today, that that is coming through at all. Because despite all this - and this is in no way scientific, but I've been speaking to people younger than me today on the floor here in Tŷ Hywel, and of one, two, three, four, 10 people I spoke to who were younger than me, two of them didn't recall anything at all apart from learning about the Welsh not in primary school - a lot of them remembered that - some remembered being taught about the Rebecca Riots, some about Chartists - it depended where they were from in Wales - but, actually, the majority of them couldn't remember anything they'd learnt in school about Welsh history. And that's why we're having this debate, because while, as you know, I have some sympathy for - well, more than sympathy, some hope for - the new curriculum, and everything you've said today, Minister, is true, it's going to be open to teachers across Wales to incorporate Welsh history to a greater or lesser degree, as much as they want, the wording that's in there at the moment - and I've read the AOLE guidance, such as it is at the moment; I appreciate it could develop - there's nothing in there that this needs to happen for those reasons, so that we're not left with the impressions of irrelevance and nothingness. I haven't got much - . I just want to finish with a point later on, but I want to deal with some contributions first. Siân, you kicked off saying that hanes, there's tân yn y bol over this - yes, there is at the moment, but, if we don't do something about this now, it's just going to go out, because, as Delyth was saying, you know, ' cofiwch ', well, if we're not taught anything, what on earth are we going to cofio? And it does relate to the question of hunaniaeth - what's missing from people's knowledge we can't remember. I think it struck me that more people said they'd learnt more from the Huw Edwards programme about the history of Wales fairly recently than they had from their own school curricula. But where I'm going to agree with the Minister, and actually other speakers here, is that we shouldn't overprescribe the content. When Mark Isherwood made his contribution, I thought that was just as important as having 'Cofiwch Dryweryn' as something we should consider doing. The response to this debate should be that we should have as much about Welsh history on the curriculum as possible. There is no one history in Wales - I think you might have been the person who said that, Minister. Who is to say whether the dissolution of the monasteries has had more of an impact or less of an impact than the drowning of Capel Celyn? I don't know. That's the point of, in this curriculum, having the opportunity to discuss it, but the content has to be there to discuss, and I think that's what is behind this debate - well, it certainly is for me. The one question I did have about it is, when we're talking about Welsh history, for me, that must include British history - Welsh, British and international - because Wales and Britain is, again, another piece of fertile territory in this curriculum, that we can talk about what Welsh identity means. And, just to respond to something that Mick Antoniw said - yes, you're quite right about local heroes, but I actually don't have a problem with talking about Nelson and Wellington, even though they don't sound particularly Welsh. They lead to a discussion about why we still have a monarchy and why we still have a monarchy when we're surrounded by Republics. And the question then would be: why do so many people in Wales support the monarchy? You can see where I'm coming from. There's no way I can cover all this, I'm really sorry. That whole idea of experiencing, touching history, which Alun Davies made, and was followed up by Jayne Bryant - absolutely. When I saw the Acts of Union - which must be poison to the people at the other end of this Chamber - they really made me excited, because they, for the first time, showed me that was the piece of paper that allowed the Welsh into Parliament, and that was something that was really important for me, from a historical point of view. So, again - [ Interruption.] We didn't have Welsh people there - [ Interruption.] There we are; see, we are doing precisely what the national curriculum should do, provided that the Minister accepts this motion, which you have done. And, if you'll allow me this very final point, this is fantastic, this debate, but, unless teachers have the resources to teach this, all these ambitions for the cynefin to be transported throughout the curriculum will come to naught, and there is still a concern for me that the teachers we have in the system at the moment, if they don't have resources, if they don't know how to do what you want them to do, they will still be teaching the same stuff and crowbarring some of this ambition into it. And that'll be a failure, both of aspiration and the curriculum itself. If we're still talking about Nazis and America in 10 years' time, without proper context, then I think it'll be a disappointment for us all.
Welsh: Iawn. Wel, mae'r ymchwil ar gyfer hynny wedi dod o waith Dr Elin Jones, a wnaeth y gwaith rhagarweiniol ar gyfer y Cwricwlwm Cymreig yn ôl yn 2013 a 2015, ac mae tystiolaeth lawer mwy diweddar wedi dod gan Martin Johnes, rwy'n credu, o Brifysgol Abertawe, sy'n dangos, er bod hynny ar gael i athrawon ei addysgu, nid yw'r mwyafrif helaeth ohonynt yn gwneud defnydd o'r modiwlau hynny. A'r mwyafrif enfawr - ac mae'n fwyafrif enfawr; mae'n ddrwg gennyf, nid yw'r manylion gyda mi, ond rwy'n siŵr y gallwn eu cael i chi - yw fod - . Mae'r Natsïaid ac America yn mynd â'r rhan fwyaf o amser y cwricwlwm. Ac fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog, mae yna elfennau yn hynny lle mae'r cysylltiad â Chymru a sut y mae hynny'n ein helpu i edrych arnom ein hunain yn bwysig iawn mewn gwirionedd, ond nid wyf wedi fy argyhoeddi, ar sail yr arolwg bach a wneuthum heddiw, fod hynny'n dod trwodd o gwbl. Oherwydd er hyn i gyd - ac nid yw hyn yn wyddonol o gwbl, ond bûm yn siarad â phobl iau na fi heddiw ar y llawr yma yn Nhŷ Hywel, ac o'r un, dau, tri, pedwar, 10 o bobl y siaradais â hwy a oedd yn iau na fi, nid oedd dau ohonynt yn cofio unrhyw beth o gwbl heblaw dysgu am y 'Welsh not' yn yr ysgol gynradd - roedd llawer ohonynt yn cofio hynny - roedd rhai'n cofio cael eu dysgu am derfysg Rebecca, rhai am y Siartwyr - roedd yn dibynnu o ble roeddent yn dod yng Nghymru - ond mewn gwirionedd, ni allai'r rhan fwyaf ohonynt gofio dim roeddent wedi'i ddysgu yn yr ysgol am hanes Cymru. A dyna pam rydym yn cael y ddadl hon, oherwydd, fel y gwyddoch, mae gennyf rywfaint o gydymdeimlad â - wel, mwy na chydymdeimlad, rhyw obaith o - y cwricwlwm newydd, ac mae popeth rydych wedi'i ddweud heddiw, Weinidog, yn wir, mae'n mynd i fod yn agored i athrawon ledled Cymru ymgorffori hanes Cymru i raddau mwy neu lai, cymaint ag y dymunant, y geiriad sydd ynddo ar hyn o bryd - ac rwyf wedi darllen yr arweiniad ar y maes dysgu a phrofiad, fel y mae ar hyn o bryd; rwy'n deall y gallai ddatblygu - nid oes dim ynddo sy'n dweud bod angen i hyn ddigwydd am y rhesymau hynny, fel nad ydym yn cael ein gadael gyda'r argraffiadau o amherthnasedd a diddymrwydd. Nid oes gennyf lawer - . Hoffwn orffen gyda phwynt yn nes ymlaen, ond rwyf am ymdrin â rhai cyfraniadau yn gyntaf. Siân, fe wnaethoch chi ddechrau drwy ddweud am hanes, fod yna dân yn y bol ynglŷn â hyn - oes, mae hynny'n wir ar hyn o bryd, ond os na wnawn rywbeth am hyn yn awr, mae'n mynd i fynd allan, oherwydd, fel roedd Delyth yn dweud, wyddoch chi, 'cofiwch', wel, os nad ydym dysgu unrhyw beth, beth ar y ddaear rydym ni'n mynd i'w gofio? Ac mae'n ymwneud â chwestiwn hunaniaeth - yr hyn sydd ar goll o wybodaeth pobl na allwn ei gofio. Rwy'n meddwl ei fod wedi fy nharo fod mwy o bobl wedi dweud eu bod wedi dysgu mwy o raglen Huw Edwards am hanes Cymru yn weddol ddiweddar nag a wnaethant o'u cwricwla ysgol eu hunain. Ond lle rwy'n mynd i gytuno gyda'r Gweinidog, a siaradwyr eraill yma mewn gwirionedd, yw na ddylem or-bennu'r cynnwys. Pan wnaeth Mark Isherwood ei gyfraniad, roeddwn yn meddwl bod hynny yr un mor bwysig â chael 'Cofiwch Dryweryn' fel rhywbeth y dylem ystyried ei wneud. Yr ymateb i'r ddadl hon yw y dylem gael cymaint â phosibl am hanes Cymru ar y cwricwlwm. Nid un hanes a geir yng Nghymru - credaf mai chi efallai oedd y person a ddywedodd hynny, Weinidog. Pwy sydd i ddweud bod diddymu'r mynachlogydd wedi cael mwy o effaith neu lai o effaith na boddi Capel Celyn? Nid wyf yn gwybod. Dyna bwynt cael cyfle i'w drafod yn y cwricwlwm hwn, ond rhaid i'r cynnwys fod yno i'w drafod, a chredaf mai dyna sydd y tu ôl i'r ddadl hon - wel, mae hynny'n wir i mi yn sicr. Yr un cwestiwn a oedd gennyf amdano yw, pan fyddwn yn sôn am hanes Cymru, i mi, rhaid i hynny gynnwys hanes Prydain - Cymreig, Prydeinig a rhyngwladol - gan fod Cymru a Phrydain, unwaith eto, yn ddarn arall o dir ffrwythlon yn y cwricwlwm hwn, ein bod yn gallu siarad am yr hyn y mae hunaniaeth Cymru yn ei olygu. Ac i ymateb i rywbeth a ddywedodd Mick Antoniw - rydych chi'n llygad eich lle am arwyr lleol, ond mewn gwirionedd nid oes gennyf broblem gyda siarad am Nelson a Wellington, er nad ydynt yn swnio'n arbennig o Gymreig. Maent yn arwain at drafodaeth ynglŷn â pham fod gennym frenhiniaeth o hyd, a pham fod gennym frenhiniaeth o hyd a ninnau wedi ein hamgylchynu gan Weriniaethau. A'r cwestiwn wedyn fyddai: pam fod cymaint o bobl yng Nghymru yn cefnogi'r frenhiniaeth? Gallwch weld o ble rwy'n dod. Nid oes ffordd y gallaf ymdrin â hyn i gyd, mae'n ddrwg iawn gennyf. Roedd yr holl syniad o brofi hanes, cyffwrdd â hanes, y soniodd Alun Davies amdano, a'i ddilyn gan Jayne Bryant - yn hollol. Pan welais y Deddfau Uno - ac mae'n rhaid eu bod yn wenwyn i'r bobl ym mhen arall y Siambr hon - roeddent yn fy nghyffroi'n fawr, oherwydd, am y tro cyntaf, roeddent yn dangos i mi mai dyna'r darn o bapur a oedd yn caniatáu i'r Cymry fynd i'r Senedd, ac roedd hynny'n rhywbeth a oedd yn wirioneddol bwysig i mi, o safbwynt hanesyddol. Felly, unwaith eto - [ T orri ar draws.] Nid oedd gennym Gymry yno - [ T orri ar draws.] Dyna ni; edrychwch, rydym yn gwneud yn union beth y dylai'r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol ei wneud, cyhyd â bod y Gweinidog yn derbyn y cynnig hwn, ac rydych wedi gwneud hynny. Ac os caniatewch i mi wneud y pwynt olaf hwn, mae hyn yn wych, y ddadl hon, ond oni fydd gan athrawon adnoddau i addysgu hyn, ni ddaw dim o'r holl uchelgeisiau hyn ar gyfer trosglwyddo'r cynefin trwy'r cwricwlwm cyfan, ac mae'n dal i fod yn destun pryder i mi, os nad oes adnoddau gan yr athrawon sydd gennym yn y system ar hyn o bryd, os nad ydynt yn gwybod sut i wneud yr hyn rydych am iddynt ei wneud, byddant yn dal i ddysgu'r un pethau ac yn gwthio rhywfaint o'r uchelgais hwn i mewn ato wedyn. A bydd hynny'n fethiant, o ran dyhead ac o ran y cwricwlwm ei hun. Os ydym yn dal i sôn am Natsïaid ac America ymhen 10 mlynedd, heb gyd-destun priodol, rwy'n credu y bydd yn siom i bawb ohonom.