English: Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, I'm completely underwhelmed by your response. In the years that I have been here as an Assembly Member, I had the pleasure of chairing the Finance Committee for a term. I've also sat on some of the very heavy-duty policy committees, namely education and health. And time and time and time and time and time again, I have found policies where there has been precious poor monitoring, very little measurement, very little real analysis of the effectiveness of policy that's been undertaken. Here we have before us a proposal for a piece of legislation. Whilst I recognise that your sunset clause is nicer than it was, and is and has been welcomed by a great many people, the reality is that legislation is very seldom repealed. In fact, I am struggling to think of a piece of legislation in the Welsh Assembly that's ever been repealed, but I'm open to any offers. So, I feel very, very strongly - very strongly - that we actually need to make sure that we collect the right data. As my colleague said to me, just a moment ago, why on earth wouldn't we want to capture this data? Why wouldn't we want to capture how many people are affected in their pockets by this, adversely, who never had a problem with drinking? Why wouldn't we want to capture how many people might switch from alcohol to drugs? Why wouldn't we want to capture domestic violence changes as a result of this? Why wouldn't we want to capture the effect it might have on alcohol and drug treatment centres and the more money that we need to put into it and the costs? So, I fail to understand why you wouldn't do that. So, I find your argument absolutely spurious. I'm really dismayed that we don't put on any of our legislation - but we're talking about this one, so I shall concentrate on this one - that we do not put in the Bill what we will measure and how we will measure. I accept measurements change, and I accept you're going to add in more things - and absolutely right - and that's why we have exactly this: 'such other characteristics or other matters as the Welsh Ministers consider appropriate.' But I consider it's appropriate that we actually measure a number of these other ones. This is what we've heard in committees, it's what the cross-party committee actually all agreed and said we should do, and you don't want to do it, and I think that is really poor show.
Welsh: Diolch i chi, Madam Llywydd. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, nid wyf yn synnu o gwbl at eich ymateb. Yn y blynyddoedd yr wyf i wedi bod yma yn Aelod Cynulliad, cefais y fraint o gadeirio'r Pwyllgor Cyllid am dymor. Rwyf hefyd wedi eistedd ar rai o'r pwyllgorau polisi difrifol iawn, sef addysg ac iechyd. A thro ar ôl tro ar ôl tro ar ôl tro, rwyf wedi darganfod polisïau lle bu'r monitro yn brin iawn, fawr ddim mesur, fawr ddim dadansoddi effeithiolrwydd polisi yng ngwir ystyr y gair. Yma mae gennym ni ger ein bron gynnig ar gyfer darn o ddeddfwriaeth. Er fy mod i yn cydnabod bod eich cymal machlud yn well nag yr oedd, a bod nifer fawr o bobl yn ac wedi ei groesawu, y realiti yw mai anaml iawn y caiff deddfwriaeth ei diddymu. Yn wir, rwy'n ei chael hi'n anodd meddwl am ddarn o ddeddfwriaeth yn y Cynulliad sydd wedi'i diddymu erioed, ond mae croeso ichi fy nghywiro. Felly, rwy'n teimlo'n gryf iawn, iawn - yn gryf iawn - fod angen inni mewn gwirionedd wneud yn siŵr ein bod yn casglu data cywir. Fel y dywedodd fy nghyd-Aelod wrthyf, dim ond munud yn ôl, pam ar y ddaear na fyddem ni eisiau casglu'r data hwn? Pam na fyddem ni eisiau canfod faint o bobl y bydd hyn yn effeithio ar eu pocedi, yn andwyol, sydd erioed wedi cael problem gydag yfed? Pam na fyddem ni eisiau canfod faint o bobl allai ffeirio alcohol am gyffuriau? Pam na fyddem ni eisiau canfod sut allai trais yn y cartref newid o ganlyniad i hyn? Pam na fyddem ni eisiau canfod yr effaith bosib ar ganolfannau triniaeth alcohol a chyffuriau ac ar yr arian ychwanegol y mae angen inni ei roi iddyn nhw, a'r costau? Felly, ni allaf ddeall pam na fyddech chi'n gwneud hynny. Felly, i mi mae eich dadl yn gwbl ffug. Rwy'n siomedig iawn nad ydym ni'n rhoi ar unrhyw ddarn o'n deddfwriaeth - ond rydym ni'n sôn am yr un yma, felly fe wnaf i ganolbwyntio ar yr un yma - nad ydym ni'n rhoi yn y Bil yr hyn y byddwn ni yn ei fesur a sut y byddwn ni'n mesur. Rwy'n derbyn bod mesuriadau yn newid, ac rwy'n derbyn eich bod yn mynd i ychwanegu mwy o bethau - ac yn gwbl briodol - a dyna pam mae gennym ni'r union beth hwn: 'unrhyw nodweddion neu faterion eraill y mae Gweinidogion Cymru yn ystyried eu bod yn briodol.' Ond rwyf o'r farn ei bod hi'n briodol ein bod ni mewn gwirionedd yn mesur nifer o'r agweddau eraill hyn. Dyma beth yr ydym ni wedi'i glywed yn y pwyllgorau, dyna beth mewn gwirionedd y cytunodd yr holl bwyllgor trawsbleidiol arno a dweud y dylem ni ei wneud, ac nid ydych chi eisiau gwneud hynny, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n wael iawn.