techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: I would support what Eryl has said. From what we hear, there is good practice in some schools, but not in others. And, in our document, we do refer to the Huw Edwards programme, and two year 12, 13 pupils - from a school in Carmarthenshire, unfortunately - saying that they learnt more of their history in Welsh lessons than they did in history lessons. Now, that was very disappointing. And I do hope that we've correctly quoted the former First Minister, in a debate in the Senedd last year - and I'm not sure whether the quote is entirely correct, but I entirely agree - that the history of the Middle Ages, or the Age of the Princes, is not being taught in detail in all schools. Some of the Assembly Members last week - in a particularly good debate, if I may say so - made the point that there are gaps in our history. And I think that that is one of the things that we must seek to change in the new curriculum. And the response that you had as a committee would suggest that people are not satisfied about how much history is being taught and how it's being taught. So, the challenge, I believe, is to ensure that all children in Welsh schools learn our history to quite a full extent.
Welsh: Byddwn i'n cefnogi beth mae Eryl wedi'i ddweud. O beth rydym ni'n ei glywed, mae yna ymarfer da mewn rhai ysgolion, ond ddim mewn ysgolion eraill. Ac, yn y ddogfen, rŷm ni'n cyfeirio at raglen Huw Edwards, er enghraifft, a dau ddisgybl blwyddyn 12, 13 - o ysgol uwchradd yn sir Gaerfyrddin, mae arnaf i ofn - yn dweud eu bod nhw'n dysgu mwy o hanes yn y gwersi Cymraeg nag oedden nhw yn y gwersi hanes. Nawr, mae hynna'n siomedig iawn. Ac rwy'n gobeithio ein bod ni wedi dyfynnu'r cyn Brif Weinidog yn gywir, yn y ddadl yn y Senedd y llynedd, ond bydden i'n cytuno'n llwyr - os yw'r dyfyniad yn gywir - nad yw hanes y Canol Oesoedd, neu Oes y Tywysogion, yn cael ei ddysgu yn fanwl ym mhob ysgol. Roedd rhai o'r Aelodau Cynulliad yr wythnos diwethaf - mewn trafodaeth arbennig o dda, os caf i ei ddweud - yn gwneud y pwynt bod yna fylchau yn ein hanes ni. A dyna, rwy'n credu, yw un o'r pethau mae'n rhaid inni dreial ei newid yn y cwricwlwm newydd. Ac mae'r ymateb a gawsoch chi fel pwyllgor yn awgrymu eto bod pobl yn anniddig am faint o hanes sy'n cael ei ddysgu, a sut mae e'n cael ei ddysgu. Felly, yr her, rwy'n credu, yw sicrhau bod pob plentyn yn ysgolion Cymru yn dysgu ein hanes ni yn weddol gyflawn.
English: Thank you very much. Gareth.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn. Gareth.
English: Sorry - in English.
Welsh: Sori - yn Saesneg.
English: Well, that was the question I was going to come on to. We have asked the Minister for a thematic review of history that is being taught currently in schools to be undertaken. Now, would you agree that that would be something that would be good to do, or do you believe that there's something else that we could do in order to collect the information, so that we don't have this discussion based on anecdotes, but rather it's a discussion based on evidence?
Welsh: Wel, dyna beth oedd y cwestiwn roeddwn i'n mynd i ddod ymlaen ato. Dŷn ni wedi gofyn i'r Gweinidog wneud adroddiad thematig o hanes, ar hyn o bryd, mewn ysgolion. Fyddech chi'n cytuno y byddai hynny'n rhywbeth i'w wneud, neu ydych chi'n credu bod yna rywbeth arall y gellid ei wneud er mwyn casglu'r dystiolaeth, fel nad oes yna drafodaeth anecdotaidd yn digwydd, ond bod yna drafodaeth ar sail tystiolaeth?
English: The challenge for you in that regard is how much time you have. As I understand it, the new curriculum will be finalised by January of next year. Now, I listened to the end of the earlier discussion, and I would have to say that I am doubtful of this idea of being non-prescriptive. I do think that we must be prescriptive about certain elements of our history that are too important for children not to study during their historical studies. And I would refer to the laws of Hywel Dda and the schools of Griffith Jones, for example. And the way that I would suggest that we would do that - if you can persuade the Minister - is to teach history chronologically, to give primary schools the freedom to study local history, along a chronological timeline, but that they also focus on those early periods, and then that you move forward. And that would mean, in reality, that it would be easier to get the necessary resources in place, in terms of what will be taught. And, if you teach those early periods in the primary sector, then those resources will be more easy to deliver, and then you can move on to the more complex resources. But, if you leave it for every school to decide for themselves what they teach, then some very important elements of our history will be neglected.
Welsh: Yr her i chi, rwy'n credu, o ran hynny, yw faint o amser sydd gyda chi. Fel dwi'n ei ddeall, mae'r cwricwlwm yn cael ei benderfynu erbyn Ionawr y flwyddyn nesaf. Roeddwn i'n gwrando ar y drafodaeth o'r blaen - neu ei diwedd hi, beth bynnag. Byddai'n rhaid i fi ddweud fy mod hi'n amheus, neu'n ofnus, o'r syniad yma o beidio rhagnodi - non-prescriptive. Rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid rhagnodi rhai pethau yn ein hanes ni sy'n rhy bwysig i blant beidio â gadael astudio hanes hebddyn nhw. A byddwn i'n cyfeirio at rywbeth fel deddfau Hywel Dda ac ysgolion Griffith Jones, er enghraifft. A'r ffordd y byddwn i'n awgrymu ein bod ni'n ei wneud e yw eich bod chi - os y gallwch chi berswadio'r Gweinidog - yn dysgu hanes yn gronolegol, rhoi rhyddid i ysgolion cynradd wneud hanes lleol, ar hyd llinell amser, ond hefyd eu bod nhw'n canolbwyntio ar y cyfnodau cynnar yn ein hanes ni, ac yna eich bod chi'n symud ymlaen. A byddai hynny, mewn gwirionedd, yn ei gwneud hi'n haws i gael yr adnoddau sy'n hanfodol o ran beth byddan nhw'n cael eu dysgu. Os ŷch chi'n dysgu'r cyfnodau cynnar yn yr ysgol gynradd, mae'r adnoddau hynny yn mynd i fod yn gymharol haws, ac yna rŷch chi'n symud ymlaen i adnoddau mwy cymhleth. Ond os ŷch chi'n ei adael e i bob ysgol benderfynu fel mae'n nhw moyn, wel, mae pethau pwysig iawn yn ein hanes ni yn mynd i gael eu hesgeuluso.
English: We'll get on to that in a moment. But, for now, do you believe - ? I have heard your view, but what about the other witnesses, about what happens now?
Welsh: Down ni at hynny. Beth rwy'n trio ei ofyn yw: ar hyn o bryd, ydych chi'n credu y dylai yna fod - ? Rwy wedi clywed eich barn chi, beth amdanoch chi, o ran yr hyn sy'n digwydd nawr?
English: The image I have in my mind is that there is a large boulder rolling down the hill, and you're trying to run alongside that boulder. The new curriculum will be available to schools from January 2020, and they'll have to start teaching it in 2022. So, it would be valuable, certainly, to have more information about how much attention is given to Welsh history, in terms of identifying good practice and sharing good practice - that would be a very valuable contribution, I think.
Welsh: Y ddelwedd sydd gen i yn fy meddwl ydy bod yna garreg fawr yn rowlio lawr y rhiw, a rydych chi'n trio rhedeg fel pwyllgor ochr yn ochr â'r garreg honno. Hynny ydy, bydd y cwricwlwm newydd ar gael i ysgolion o Ionawr 2020, a byddan nhw'n gorfod ei ddysgu o 2022. Felly, mi fyddai'n werthfawr, yn sicr, i gael mwy o wybodaeth am faint o sylw sy'n cael ei roi i hanes Cymru, yn un peth o ran dynodi arfer da a rhannu'r arfer da yna - byddai hynny'n gyfraniad gwerthfawr iawn, dwi'n meddwl.
English: Okay. You don't need to answer every question, by the way - just if you feel strongly about something. We move on to John Griffiths now, on the new curriculum.
Welsh: Ocê. Does dim angen ichi ateb pob cwestiwn, gyda llaw - dim ond os ydych chi'n teimlo'n gryf am rywbeth. Dŷn ni'n symud ymlaen at John Griffiths, ynglŷn â'r cwricwlwm newydd.
English: I recall, during my second year in college, will all the confidence of a 19-year-old student, writing an article for the student newspaper saying that I disagreed entirely with the way that history was taught in the university, and my point was that there was a Welsh history department and then a history department, as though they were two separate subjects. Now, one thing that I do see as a very positive aspect of this new curriculum is that it is a curriculum for Wales. In terms of its structure, it is most definitely unique to Wales, and the way that these subjects are combined in the AOLEs, I think we're moving in a direction where history in its essence is being taught from the perspective of the nation - or, rather, not the perspective, but with the nation where we live being central to that history. Now, I hope in the very near future there will be no need for us to talk about Welsh history as if it was a separate entity, but rather to be an integrated part of history, and of course that history will not be limited to studying Wales, but we will be studying the influences within the British state, and influences within Europe and the whole world, in fact. But that's the point that I would begin with - that we should be integrating Welsh history entirely into the curriculum.
Welsh: Dwi'n cofio, yn fy ail flwyddyn yn y coleg, gyda sicrwydd hollwybodus myfyriwr 19 oed, ysgrifennu erthygl i bapur y myfyrwyr yn dweud, 'Dwi'n anghytuno yn llwyr â'r modd y mae hanes Cymru yn cael ei dysgu yn y brifysgol hon', a'r pwynt oedd gennyf oedd bod yna adran hanes Cymru ac adran hanes, fel bod nhw'n ddau bwnc ar wahân. Un peth dwi'n ei weld yn gadarnhaol iawn yn y cwricwlwm newydd ydy ei fod e'n gwricwlwm Cymru. O ran ei strwythur, yn sicr ddigon mae'n gwricwlwm unigryw i Gymru, a'r ffordd mae'r pynciau yn cael eu cyfuno rŵan yn y meysydd profiad a dysgu - dŷn ni'n symud i'r cyfeiriad lle mae hanes yn ei hanfod yn cael ei ddysgu o bersbectif y wlad. Nid y persbectif, mae'n ddrwg gennyf - gyda'r wlad lle dŷn ni'n byw yn ganolog i'r hanes yna. Gobeithio yn y dyfodol - y dyfodol agos iawn - fydd yna ddim angen inni sôn am hanes Cymru fel petai'n rhyw endid ar wahân, ond bydd hanes Cymru yn rhan integredig o hanes. Wrth gwrs, dyw'r hanes yna wedyn ddim yn gyfyngedig i astudio Cymru; dŷn ni'n mynd i astudio dylanwadau'r o fewn y wladwriaeth Brydeinig ac astudio dylanwadau o fewn Ewrop a'r byd cyfan. Ond dyna'r pwynt dechreuol buaswn i'n ei wneud: integreiddio hanes Cymru yn llwyr i mewn i'r cwricwlwm.
English: Well, that book was our bible in school, so I do believe we should have them at the bedside when we go to bed each night. We'll move on now to Dai Lloyd.
Welsh: Wel, roedd Hanes Cymru yn feibl inni yn yr ysgol. Felly, dylem ni ei gael wrth ein bwrdd gwely pan dŷn ni'n mynd i gysgu bob nos. Rŷm ni'n symud ymlaen nawr at Dai Lloyd.
English: Thank you very much, Chair. Now, many of us are quite old, and back when we were in school, I didn't learn any Welsh history at all, but course I take it that things have changed in Lampeter secondary school by now. Of course, there are versions of history, aren't there? We discussed earlier that it depends where you come from and what your personal prejudices may be, and how you personally interpret what the history of Wales is, whether that is the history of the indigenous people of Wales, or the history of Britain in Wales, as David Melding has already mentioned. Now, with a new curriculum, there is meant to be greater flexibility now, and some people would say that there's a dilution there of the influences of pure history because, of course, there will be all kinds of other studies involved. But, in that context, do you see challenges, or can you see opportunities arising to enrich the educational experience of pupils in terms of the history of Wales? Or do you think there's a risk? Every time I do talk about my version of Welsh history, I receive quite a bit of online feedback as though I was talking about something that was entirely alien that they had never encountered before. David and I may disagree about the importance of various dates in our history, but a lot of this emanates from the fact that many of our people don't know of what I would describe as my version of Welsh history, as compared with - . So, do you see challenges lying ahead with the new curriculum?
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. Wrth gwrs, mae rhai ohonom ni yn hen iawn, a phan oeddwn i yn yr ysgol, yn y bôn, ches i ddim o hanes Cymru o gwbl, ond dwi'n cymryd bod pethau wedi newid yn ysgol uwchradd Llanbedr Pont Steffan erbyn rŵan. Wrth gwrs, mae yna fersiynau o hanes, onid oes? Fel dŷn ni wedi crybwyll eisoes, mae'n dibynnu o le dŷch chi'n dod a'ch rhagfarnau personol, a sut dŷch chi yn bersonol yn dehongli beth yw hanes Cymru, ynteu hanes gwerinol Cymry brodorol, ynteu hanes Prydain yng Nghymru, fel mae David Melding eisoes wedi cloriannu. Nawr, wrth gwrs, efo'r cwricwlwm newydd, mae yna fwy o hyblygrwydd i fod rŵan, a buasai rhai pobl yn dweud y bydd yn gwanhau dylanwadau hanes pur, felly, achos ei fod yn rhan o bob math o astudiaethau eraill. Ond, o fewn hynny, a ydych chi'n gallu gweld heriau neu ydych chi'n gallu gweld cyfleon i gyfoethogi profiad addysgiadol y disgybl yn yr ysgol yn nhermau hanes Cymru, ynteu a oes yna berygl? Bob tro dwi'n traethu ynglŷn â fy fersiwn i o hanes Cymru, dwi'n cael cryn dipyn o adborth ar-lein fel taswn i'n traethu am rywbeth cyfan gwbl wahanol nad ydyn nhw erioed wedi cyfarfod ag e o'r blaen. Gall David a minnau anghytuno ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd gwahanol ddyddiadau yn ein hanes, ond mae lot ohono fe'n deillio o'r ffaith nad yw nifer o'n pobl yn gwybod, fel buaswn i'n dweud, fy fersiwn i o hanes Cymru, o gymharu - . A ydych chi'n gweld heriau efo'r cwricwlwm newydd?
English: Without a doubt, yes. There are opportunities. It's important to say that - there are certainly opportunities - but there are also challenges. In discussing the curriculum more generally now, it's taken over three years, I think, to get to this point, in terms of the Minister for Education publishing draft proposals, which it seems will be approved in January. So, there will be a short period for teachers to adapt those. You may have heard that from the representatives of the teaching unions earlier, so there are challenges of that kind. The other challenges are that it's going to be a very difficult task to secure the right balance between the various elements of the humanities - that there is that right balance between the different subjects, as they are at the moment - and also, in the context of Welsh history, a balance between the experiences of various different areas. I listened to many of you here this morning contributing to the debate in the Chamber last week, and many drew on their personal experiences and the experiences of their own areas, which is wonderful, of course, but we want to also give an overview of the whole of Wales, too. And that's going to be challenging. It's a matter of balance, again: not too much emphasis on local history, despite how excellent and important that is. It was exceptionally important for me when I was a history teacher, but there should be an overview of the whole of Wales, too. That's one challenge.
Welsh: Wel, yn bendifaddau, oes. Mae yna gyfleoedd. Mae'n bwysig dweud hynna - yn sicr ddigon mae yna gyfleoedd - ond mae yna heriau hefyd. A siarad am y cwricwlwm yn gyffredinol, rŵan, mae wedi cymryd dros dair blynedd, dwi'n meddwl, i gyrraedd y pwynt lle ydym ni rŵan, o ran y Gweinidog Addysg yn cyhoeddi cynigion drafft, ac y bydd y rheini'n cael eu cymeradwyo, mae'n debyg, ym mis Ionawr. Bydd yna gyfnod byr, felly, i athrawon addasu i' rheini. Felly, rydych chi wedi clywed hynny, efallai, gan gynrychiolwyr yr undebau athrawon yn gynharach heddiw, ond mae yna heriau o'r math yna. Yr heriau eraill hefyd ydy y bydd hi'n dasg anodd iawn, dwi'n meddwl, i sicrhau cydbwysedd rhwng y gwahanol elfennau o'r dyniaethau - bod yna gydbwysedd rhwng y gwahanol bynciau, fel maen nhw ar hyn o bryd - a hefyd, efallai, yng nghyd-destun hanes Cymru, cydbwysedd rhwng profiadau gwahanol ardaloedd. Roeddwn i'n gwrando ar nifer ohonoch chi sydd yma y bore yma yn cyfrannu at y ddadl yn y Siambr yr wythnos diwethaf, ac roedd nifer yn tynnu ar eu profiadau personol nhw o'u hardaloedd nhw eu hunain, sy'n rhywbeth gwych, ond dŷn ni eisiau cyflwyno trosolwg o Gymru gyfan hefyd. Ac mae hynny'n mynd i fod yn her. Mae'n fater o gydbwysedd eto: dim gormod o bwyslais ar hanes lleol, er mor wych a phwysig ydy hynny, ac roedd hi'n bwysig eithriadol imi pan oeddwn i'n athro hanes, ond bod yna olwg ar Gymru gyfan hefyd, Mae hynny'n un her, felly.
English: Okay. Anyone else, very succinctly?
Welsh: Iawn. Unrhyw un arall, yn fras?
English: Yes, it's very interesting. One of the things that I just wanted to consider in greater detail was this idea that the children and people of Wales should know some facts - the must-haves, if I can describe them in that way. There are some facts that are so fundamental, and you, Wyn, have talked about Griffith Jones from Llanddowror, for example, and I know that the Owain Glyndŵr Society has said something similar. I'm not looking for a long list of what those things are - what those facts should be - but what examples would you give of the types of things that should be taught in all schools in Wales? We've heard evidence from others who say, 'Well, no, it's not possible to do this because there are so many facts, and people would argue about what those facts might be that are relevant'. For you, Wyn - you did raise it this morning - what are these must-haves? What are the fundamentals that you believe should be taught as part of a Welsh history curriculum?
Welsh: Ie, mae'n ddiddorol dros ben. Un o'r pethau roeddwn i'n moyn jest ei ystyried yn fwy manwl yw'r syniad hwn y dylai plant Cymru a phobl Cymru wybod rhai ffeithiau - y must-haves, os gallaf i eu disgrifio nhw fel yna. Mae rhai ffeithiau sydd mor sylfaenol - rŷch chi, Wyn, wedi sôn am Griffith Jones Llanddowror, er engraifft, ac rwy'n gwybod bod Cymdeithas Owain Glyndŵr wedi dweud yr un peth. Dwi ddim yn edrych am ryw fath o restr hir o beth yw'r pethau hynny - beth yw'r ffeithiau hynny - ond pa enghreifftiau fyddech chi'n eu rhoi o bethau y dylai cael eu dysgu ym mhob ysgol yng Nghymru? Rŷm ni wedi clywed tystiolaeth gan bobl eraill sydd yn dweud, 'Wel, na, does dim modd gwneud hynny achos mae siẁd gymaint o ffeithiau, neu byddai pobl yn dadlau beth yw'r ffeithiau sydd yn berthnasol'. I chi, Wyn, efallai - chi oedd yn sôn amdano fe bore yma - beth yw'r must-haves hyn? Beth yw'r pethau sylfaenol ŷch chi'n credu y dylent gael eu dysgu fel rhan o gwricwlwm hanes Cymru?
English: Does anyone have anything different to add to that?
Welsh: Oes gan unrhyw un arall rywbeth gwahanol i'w ddweud o ran esiamplau?
English: All I would say, because it is a big question, and it's a question that needs to be debated, and that debate has not happened over the past few years in developing the new curriculum. Personally, my interest is in more recent history, but I entirely accept what Wyn says. I think we've got a very exciting story about how Wales started forming after the leaving of the Romans and the connection with Scotland, and so forth. That's a very exciting story there, and then you go on through the centuries. The awareness of chronology is, of course, essential for history. Personally - there's no official position by our campaign on this - but personally, I believe that it is important to have an awareness of chronology, but I wouldn't necessarily say that everything has to be taught chronologically. I wouldn't like to see only primary school children learning the early periods, and then children who are older only studying the more recent chronology, because I think it's important to revisit some aspects. So, I think it would be a very interesting task to contribute towards such a list, and it would link, if I may make this quick point, with another great need, and that is to develop resources. If it were possible to say what events, what specific dates needed to be covered, then you could focus on providing resources for that, and that would greatly assist schools to deliver the new curriculum successfully.
Welsh: Mae'n gwestiwn mawr, on'd ydy, ac mae'n gwestiwn sydd angen trafodaeth arno fo. Mae'n bechod bod y drafodaeth ddim wedi digwydd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf yma wrth ddatblygu'r cwricwlwm newydd. Yn bersonol, mae fy niddordeb i'n fwy mewn hanes mwy diweddar, ond dwi'n derbyn yn llwyr beth mae Wyn yn ei ddweud. Dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n stori gynhyrfus eithriadol, y syniad bod y Cymry wedi dechrau ffurfio ar ôl ymadawiad y Rhufeiniaid a'r cysylltiadau efo'r Alban, ac yn y blaen. Mae yna stori gyffrous iawn, iawn yn fanna, ac ymlaen trwy'r canrifoedd. Mae ymwybyddiaeth o gronoleg, wrth gwrs, yn hollbwysig i hanes. Yn bersonol - does yna ddim barn swyddogol, fel petai, gan Ymgyrch Hanes Cymru ar hyn - ond yn bersonol, mae'n bwysig cael ymwybyddiaeth o gronoleg, ond fuaswn i ddim o reidrwydd yn dweud y dylid dysgu pob dim yn gronolegol. Fyddwn i ddim yn hoffi gweld plant ysgolion cynradd efallai dim ond yn astudio y cyfnodau cynnar, ac efallai plant yn nes ymlaen yn eu taith addysgol dim ond yn astudio cyfnodau mwy diweddar, achos efallai bod o'n bwysig ailymweld â rhai pethau. Ie, mi fyddai'n dasg ddiddorol iawn i gyfrannu tuag ati hi, ac mi fyddai'n cysylltu hefyd, os caf i ddweud yn sydyn iawn, efo angen mawr arall, sef yr angen am ddatblygu adnoddau. Petasai'n bosibl dynodi y cyfnodau, y digwyddiadau a'r datblygiadau pwysig, a bod yna ganolbwyntio wedyn ar ddarparu adnoddau ar y rheini, mi fyddai'n gymorth mawr, dwi'n meddwl, i ysgolion gyflwyno'r cwricwlwm newydd yn llwyddiannus.
English: One of the things that we have considered this morning also is in what way we strike a balance between flexibility on the one hand and also being prescriptive on the other. There are many versions of history. John Bwlchllan's book there, The History of Wales, I've read it, but I disagree with much of it, and that's the point. It's a version, and it's a book that people should read and then consider their own version, and other historians might have an entirely different view. But, of course, the point is that there is a variety in terms of the versions that pupils get to see. There's no easy answer to this. So, I'd like to know how this balance is found between having sufficient flexibility in order to enable teachers to teach in the way that they would like, and on the other hand to ensure that there is consistency as to what is being taught in schools.
Welsh: Un o'r pethau, wrth gwrs, rŷm ni wedi'u hystyried y bore yma hefyd yw ym mha ffordd rydym ni'n creu'r cydbwysedd rhwng hyblygrwydd ar un llaw a hefyd rhagnodi efallai ar y llaw arall. Wrth gwrs, mae yna sawl fersiwn o hanes. Mae llyfr John Bwlchllan yn fanna, Hanes Cymru, a dwi wedi ei ddarllen e, ond dwi'n anghytuno efo llawer o beth sydd ynddo fe. Ond nid dyna beth yw'r pwynt. Fersiwn yw e, a dylai pobl ei gael i ddarllen ac i ystyried eu fersiwn nhw eu hunain, a byddai gan haneswyr eraill safbwynt hollol wahanol. Ond y pwynt yw, wrth gwrs, fod yna gymysgedd o fersiynau mae disgyblon yn eu gweld. Does dim ateb rhwydd i hwn. Sut mae'r cydbwysedd yn cael ei greu rhwng cael digon hyblygrwydd er mwyn bod athrawon yn gallu dysgu yn y ffordd maen nhw eisiau, ac ar y llaw arall sicrhau bod yna gysondeb ynglŷn â beth sy'n cael ei ddysgu yn yr ysgolion?