English: It's that kind of concern that was recognised at Stage 2, when the amendments were brought forward to provide the additional protections, which the Bill, as it comes to Stage 3, already contains. As I was saying, the Order can only be made without the consent of the corporation itself where that consent has been unreasonably withheld or delayed. A decision by Welsh Ministers that consent has been unreasonably withheld or delayed will be amenable to challenge by judicial review in the courts, and, in the very exceptional circumstances where Welsh Ministers consider that consent has been unreasonably withheld, their reasoning for coming to that view will have to be strong enough to justify that decision, and the decision will need to have been taken in accordance with public law principles, or else it could be struck down or declared unlawful. So, that protection is a new protection in the Bill, included as a consequence of Stage 2 discussions. There is a further safeguard in the Bill, which is provided by the requirement that Ministers publish and keep under review a statement setting out the circumstances in which it's proposed to exercise the power to make an Order to dissolve a HEC in Wales. And, prior to making that statement, Ministers are required to consult persons they consider appropriate, and to lay the statement before the Senedd as soon as possible after its publication. The charter institutions and HECs have been created and dissolved using different legal mechanisms. That's the fundamental difference between the two, and the Bill, as amended at Stage 2, ensures that there are greater similarities between the institutions in that regard. That has been the objective of the amendments that we've already made to the Bill, and that universities in Wales that are higher education corporations are not substantively disadvantaged when compared to charter universities, where, even in those circumstances, there may need to be a necessary dissolution, subject to the safeguards. I want to thank Universities Wales for having worked with us, worked with my officials, in relation to this. I absolutely recognise that the amendments I brought forward at Stage 2 don't provide the entirety of what Universities Wales were looking for, but I believe that they strike an appropriate balance between the autonomy of individual institutions and the responsibility of Government to step in should there be a need to do so in very exceptional circumstances, and so I call on Members to reject these amendments.
Welsh: Dyna'r math o bryder a gydnabuwyd yng Nghyfnod 2, pan gyflwynwyd y gwelliannau i ddarparu'r amddiffyniadau ychwanegol y mae'r Bil, fel y mae'n dod i Gyfnod 3, eisoes yn eu cynnwys. Fel yr oeddwn i'n ei ddweud, dim ond heb gydsyniad y gorfforaeth ei hun y gellir gwneud y Gorchymyn pan fo'r cydsyniad hwnnw wedi'i atal neu ei ohirio'n afresymol. Bydd penderfyniad gan Weinidogion Cymru bod cydsyniad wedi'i atal neu ei ohirio'n afresymol yn gallu cael ei herio gan adolygiad barnwrol yn y llysoedd, ac, o dan yr amgylchiadau eithriadol iawn pan fo Gweinidogion Cymru o'r farn bod cydsyniad wedi'i wrthod yn afresymol, bydd yn rhaid i'w rhesymu dros ddod i'r farn honno fod yn ddigon cryf i gyfiawnhau'r penderfyniad hwnnw, a bydd angen i'r penderfyniad fod wedi'i wneud yn unol ag egwyddorion cyfraith gyhoeddus, neu fel arall gellid ei ddileu neu ei ddatgan yn anghyfreithlon. Felly, mae'r amddiffyniad hwnnw'n amddiffyniad newydd yn y Bil, sydd wedi'i gynnwys o ganlyniad i drafodaethau Cyfnod 2. Mae mesur diogelu pellach yn y Bil, a ddarperir gan y gofyniad bod Gweinidogion yn cyhoeddi ac yn parhau i adolygu datganiad sy'n nodi o dan ba amgylchiadau y bwriedir arfer y pŵer i wneud Gorchymyn i ddiddymu CAU yng Nghymru. A chyn gwneud y datganiad hwnnw, mae'n ofynnol i Weinidogion ymgynghori ag unigolion sy'n briodol yn eu barn nhw, a gosod y datganiad gerbron y Senedd cyn gynted â phosibl ar ôl ei gyhoeddi. Mae'r sefydliadau siarter a'r CAUau wedi'u creu a'u diddymu gan ddefnyddio gwahanol ddulliau cyfreithiol. Dyna'r gwahaniaeth sylfaenol rhwng y ddau, ac mae'r Bil, fel y'i diwygiwyd yng Nghyfnod 2, yn sicrhau bod mwy o debygrwydd rhwng y sefydliadau yn hynny o beth. Dyna fu amcan y gwelliannau yr ydym eisoes wedi'u gwneud i'r Bil, ac nad yw prifysgolion yng Nghymru sy'n gorfforaethau addysg uwch o dan anfantais sylweddol o'u cymharu â phrifysgolion siarter, lle, hyd yn oed o dan yr amgylchiadau hynny, efallai y bydd angen diddymu angenrheidiol, yn amodol ar y mesurau diogelu. Hoffwn ddiolch i Brifysgolion Cymru am weithio gyda ni, gweithio gyda fy swyddogion, mewn cysylltiad â hyn. Rwy'n cydnabod yn llwyr nad yw'r gwelliannau a gyflwynais yng Nghyfnod 2 yn darparu'r cyfan o'r hyn yr oedd Prifysgolion Cymru yn chwilio amdano, ond credaf eu bod yn taro cydbwysedd priodol rhwng ymreolaeth sefydliadau unigol a chyfrifoldeb y Llywodraeth i gamu i mewn pe bai angen gwneud hynny mewn amgylchiadau eithriadol iawn, ac felly galwaf ar Aelodau i wrthod y gwelliannau hyn.