English: I certainly agree with the spirit of the point you're making, that we should definitely hold Westminster to account and continue to do that very vociferously. But I suppose the logic of my case is that we have to ask ourselves what we can do here now, because the salvation will not come, I think, likely any time soon from Westminster. Now, in essence, we've had two elements of an anti-poverty approach in Wales. One of them has focused on intervening directly in the economy, so lowering the number of families in workless households, enabling more women to enter the workforce, for example, raising wage levels for those in work that work in the foundational economy. The second type of policy, then, is the provision of services directly targeted at children in poverty, things like the pupil deprivation grant, many of the programmes that, presumably, the Government is referring to in its amendment, referring to the £1 billion spent - I presume annually - mentioned in its child poverty progress report in December. The problem with the former, the challenge with the former approach of directly intervening in the economy, is that that type of deep structural change takes time to bear fruit. And, then, while you're waiting for that structural change to happen, of course, you have an entire generation of children that then have grown up with the problems of poverty. It's important, it's absolutely imperative, but it's not going to provide that immediate relief. The problem with the latter is, by definition almost, it's intended to be ameliorating. So, it's dealing with the effects, the consequences, the symptoms of poverty, not the root causes. And this leads us to the discussion of whether we need a new approach, which, essentially, in the form of the Welsh child payment, would involve a cash transfer directly payable to low-income families themselves. Now, there are, obviously, legitimate questions around the detail, some of which we can get into later - the level of the payment, who would qualify, the powers or the agreements with the UK Government that we would need in order to make this as effective as possible. But these are second order questions, in essence. The key first question is: do we agree in principle that this would be a positive policy and it could have a higher impact than some of the alternative approaches that I referred to earlier? Now, it's not an original idea. It's based on the Scottish child payment that will be introduced later this year of £10 to low-income families. That started as an idea actually from the coalition of anti-poverty groups in Scotland, with the Give Me Five campaign to top up child benefit by £5 a week. The modelling around that suggested that that even would lift 30,000 children out of poverty in Scotland. That shows, actually, that relatively small amounts - small amounts to us maybe - but relatively small amounts of money can have huge impacts when we're talking about families that are living on the breadline. From this idea then emerged the idea of a Scottish child payment that is set at a higher rate but is not automatic, so it would have to be applied for. It's also estimated that that will have a similar effect in terms of 30,000 children brought out of poverty. The cost of the policy is around £180 million - £180 million out of Scottish Government budget of over £40 billion. Well, you know, if this is a priority, and child poverty clearly is for the Scottish Government, then they'd made the assessment that that is a price worth paying, given the impact that it's going to have in those numbers. In terms of the evidence, the academic evidence is very, very strong. Money makes a difference to children's long-term outcomes. Poorer children have worse life outcomes in terms of their health, their educational achievement, their future employment and their own income prospects. It becomes that intergenerational cycle of disadvantage, and poverty increases stress and anxiety levels, parents are less able to invest in the goods and services that children need for their own development. And the - [ Interruption.] Yes, I'll give way.
Welsh: Rwy'n sicr yn cytuno ag ysbryd y pwynt rydych yn ei wneud, y dylem yn bendant ddwyn San Steffan i gyfrif a pharhau i wneud hynny'n groch iawn. Ond mae'n debyg mai rhesymeg fy nadl yw bod yn rhaid inni ofyn i ni'n hunain beth y gallwn ei wneud yma nawr, oherwydd nid wyf yn credu ei bod hi'n debygol y daw achubiaeth yn fuan o San Steffan. Nawr, yn ei hanfod, rydym wedi cael dwy elfen o ddull gwrth-dlodi yng Nghymru. Mae un ohonynt wedi canolbwyntio ar ymyrryd yn uniongyrchol yn yr economi, felly gostwng nifer y teuluoedd mewn aelwydydd heb waith, gan alluogi mwy o fenywod i ymuno â'r gweithlu, er enghraifft, a chodi lefelau cyflog y rhai sydd mewn gwaith sy'n gweithio yn yr economi sylfaenol. Yr ail fath o bolisi, felly, yw darparu gwasanaethau wedi eu targedu'n uniongyrchol at blant mewn tlodi, pethau fel y grant amddifadedd disgyblion, llawer o'r rhaglenni y mae'r Llywodraeth, mae'n debyg, yn cyfeirio atynt yn ei gwelliant wrth gyfeirio at y £1 biliwn a werir - bob blwyddyn rwy'n tybio - fel y mae'n dweud yn ei adroddiad cynnydd ar dlodi plant ym mis Rhagfyr. Y broblem gyda'r cyntaf, yr her gyda'r dull blaenorol o ymyrryd yn uniongyrchol yn yr economi, yw bod y math hwnnw o newid strwythurol dwfn yn cymryd amser i ddwyn ffrwyth. Ac felly, tra rydych yn aros i'r newid strwythurol hwnnw ddigwydd wrth gwrs, wedyn bydd gennych chi genhedlaeth gyfan o blant sydd wedi tyfu i fyny gyda phroblemau tlodi. Mae'n bwysig, mae'n hollbwysig, ond nid yw'n mynd i ddarparu'r rhyddhad uniongyrchol hwnnw. Y broblem gyda'r olaf, trwy ddiffiniad bron, yw y bwriedir iddo fod yn fesur lliniarol. Felly, mae'n ymdrin ag effeithiau, canlyniadau, symptomau tlodi, nid yr achosion sylfaenol. Ac mae hyn yn ein harwain at y drafodaeth ynglŷn ag a oes angen dull gweithredu newydd arnom, a fyddai, yn y bôn, ar ffurf taliad plant Cymru, yn golygu trosglwyddiad arian parod sy'n daladwy'n uniongyrchol i deuluoedd incwm isel eu hunain. Nawr, mae'n amlwg fod cwestiynau dilys yn codi ynglŷn â'r manylion, a gallwn droi at rai ohonynt yn nes ymlaen - lefel y taliad, pwy fyddai'n gymwys, y pwerau neu'r cytundebau gyda Llywodraeth y DU y byddai eu hangen arnom er mwyn gwneud hyn mor effeithiol â phosibl. Ond cwestiynau eilradd yw'r rhain yn y bôn. Y cwestiwn cyntaf allweddol yw: a ydym yn cytuno mewn egwyddor y byddai hwn yn bolisi cadarnhaol ac y gallai gael effaith fwy na rhai o'r dulliau amgen y cyfeiriais atynt yn gynharach? Nawr, nid yw'n syniad gwreiddiol. Mae'n seiliedig ar daliad plant yr Alban o £10 a fydd yn cael ei gyflwyno yn ddiweddarach eleni i deuluoedd incwm isel. Dechreuodd hynny fel syniad gan y gynghrair o grwpiau gwrth-dlodi yn yr Alban, gyda'r ymgyrch Give Me Five i ychwanegu £5 at y budd-dal plant bob wythnos. Awgrymai'r gwaith modelu arno y byddai hynny hyd yn oed yn codi 30,000 o blant allan o dlodi yn yr Alban. Mae hynny'n dangos mai symiau cymharol fychan - symiau bach i ni efallai - ond gall symiau cymharol fach o arian gael effaith enfawr pan fyddwn yn sôn am deuluoedd sy'n byw ar y llinell dlodi. O'r syniad hwn, datblygodd y syniad o daliad plant yn yr Alban wedi'i osod ar gyfradd uwch ond nad yw'n awtomatig, felly byddai'n rhaid gwneud cais amdano. Amcangyfrifir hefyd y bydd yn cael effaith debyg i godi 30,000 o blant allan o dlodi. Cost y polisi yw tua £180 miliwn - £180 miliwn allan o gyllideb Llywodraeth yr Alban o dros £40 biliwn. Wel, wyddoch chi, os yw'n flaenoriaeth, ac mae'n amlwg fod tlodi plant yn flaenoriaeth i Lywodraeth yr Alban, roeddent wedi asesu bod hwnnw'n bris gwerth ei dalu o ystyried yr effaith y mae'n mynd i'w chael ar y niferoedd hynny. Mae'r dystiolaeth academaidd yn gryf iawn. Mae arian yn gwneud gwahaniaeth i ganlyniadau hirdymor plant. Mae plant tlotach yn cael canlyniadau bywyd gwaeth o ran eu hiechyd, eu cyflawniad addysgol, eu cyflogaeth yn y dyfodol a'u rhagolygon incwm eu hunain. Daw hwnnw'n gylch o anfantais sy'n pontio'r cenedlaethau, ac mae tlodi'n cynyddu lefelau straen a phryder, mae rhieni'n llai abl i fuddsoddi yn y nwyddau a'r gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen ar blant ar gyfer eu datblygiad eu hunain. A'r - [ T orri ar draws.] Iawn, fe ildiaf.