English: We can agree on some things. Much of what has been said by the Conservative spokesperson, I think, makes a great deal of sense, and this is why I hope that the way in which we work with the WLGA and take forward a reform programme won't simply look at the structures, but it will look at how we work together as a Government and systems of governance within this country. I agree that there is a great deal of complexity, and I agree, and I know my colleagues in Government agree, that one of the objectives that we need in taking these matters forward is to streamline existing structures, and to streamline existing processes, to make Government appropriate and not as large as perhaps we're able to do so. The way in which we're going to take this forward will clearly look at the sorts of structures we have in place, but I hope that it will not be limited to a dry and sterile debate about either the number of local authorities we have in this country or the boundaries of those local authorities. I hope that we will be able to have a much more stimulating conversation about where services are best delivered and how services are best delivered for the citizen. And I think, if I may say this, where I do disagree with the Conservative spokesperson, it was her lack of emphasis on the citizen and the place and the rights of the citizen. We all exist to serve the people of this country. Local authorities and this Government and this place exist to serve people, and it is the people that we serve that should be at the centre of our thoughts, and not simply the structures that exist in order to provide those services. So, let me say this: it is not right to suggest that this process has either created turmoil, destabilisation or is insensitive, which are the words the Conservatives used. In fact, one of the issues that is constantly brought up to me, and brought up with me, by people like public service workers and by elected leaders up and down the country is the impacts of austerity on their budgets and their ability to deliver services. In all the debates that we've had here - and I've told her this before, and I will tell her again, I'm afraid - there isn't a single local authority leader, not one, across Wales who is saying what we need in Wales is the sort of Conservative policies that are being delivered in England. Nobody says that - nobody at all. I think it's fair to say that she can read the consultations throughout her summer break, but she will find very little evidence of that in any of the responses that we received. What we want to be able to do, though, is to do something that is very different. We want to take the best from the collaborative and regional working that she's described, and I accept that that is an important and central part of how we take these forward. We want to empower local authorities, but we want to empower local people as well. What we want to be able to do is to ensure now that we deliver the sorts of structures in Wales that are appropriate to a country with a devolved Government, and that are appropriate to a country of 3 million people. I hope that we will be able to do that in consultation with each other, and that we will see a far greater and far-reaching and far-sighted reform programme that goes beyond a dry and sterile conversation about the number of local authorities in Wales.
Welsh: Gallwn ni gytuno ar rai pethau. Mae llawer o'r hyn a ddywedodd llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, rwy'n meddwl, yn gwneud llawer o synnwyr, a dyma pam rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn ni gydweithio â CLlLC a bwrw ymlaen â rhaglen ddiwygio mewn modd sy'n gwneud mwy na dim ond edrych ar y strwythurau, ond sydd hefyd yn edrych ar sut yr ydym ni'n gweithio gyda'n gilydd fel Llywodraeth a systemau llywodraethu o fewn y wlad hon. Rwy'n cytuno bod llawer o gymhlethdod, ac rwy'n cytuno, ac rwy'n gwybod bod fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Llywodraeth yn cytuno, mai un amcan sydd ei angen arnom ni wrth fwrw ymlaen â'r materion hyn yw symleiddio'r strwythurau presennol, a symleiddio'r prosesau presennol, i wneud y Llywodraeth yn briodol a heb fod mor fawr ag efallai y gallwn ni. Byddwn ni'n bwrw ymlaen â hyn mewn ffordd a fydd yn edrych yn glir ar y mathau o strwythurau sydd ar waith, ond rwy'n gobeithio na fydd hynny'n gyfyngedig i ddadl sych a diffrwyth am naill ai nifer yr awdurdodau lleol sydd gennym ni yn y wlad hon nac am ffiniau'r awdurdodau lleol hynny. Rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn ni gael sgwrs lawer mwy ysgogol am y mannau gorau o gyflenwi gwasanaethau a'r ffyrdd gorau o gyflenwi gwasanaethau i ddinasyddion. Ac rwy'n meddwl, os caf i ddweud hyn, mai lle rwy'n anghytuno â llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr yw ei diffyg pwyslais ar y dinesydd ac ar le a hawliau'r dinesydd. Rydym ni i gyd yn bodoli i wasanaethu pobl y wlad hon. Mae awdurdodau lleol a'r Llywodraeth hon a'r lle hwn yn bodoli i wasanaethu pobl, a dylem ni ganolbwyntio ein meddyliau ar y bobl yr ydym ni'n eu gwasanaethu, nid dim ond ar y strwythurau sy'n bodoli er mwyn darparu'r gwasanaethau hynny. Felly, dewch imi ddweud hyn: nid yw'n iawn i awgrymu bod y broses hon wedi creu cythrwfl neu ansefydlogrwydd, neu ei bod hi'n ansensitif, sef y geiriau a ddefnyddiodd y Ceidwadwyr. Yn wir, un mater rwyf i'n clywed amdano'n gyson, ac sy'n cael ei roi ger fy mron yn gyson, gan bobl fel gweithwyr gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a gan arweinwyr etholedig ledled y wlad yw effeithiau caledi ar eu cyllidebau a'u gallu i gyflenwi gwasanaethau. Yn yr holl ddadleuon rydym ni wedi eu cael yma - ac rwyf wedi dweud hyn wrthi hi o'r blaen, ac rwy'n mynd i'w ddweud wrthi unwaith eto, mae arnaf ofn - does dim un arweinydd awdurdod lleol, dim un, ledled Cymru yn dweud mai'r hyn sydd ei angen arnom ni yng Nghymru yw'r math o bolisïau Ceidwadol a ddarperir yn Lloegr. Does neb yn dweud hynny - neb o gwbl. Rwy'n meddwl ei bod hi'n deg dweud y gall hi ddarllen yr ymgynghoriadau drwy gydol ei thoriad haf, ond mai ychydig iawn o dystiolaeth o hynny y bydd hi'n ei gweld yn unrhyw un o'r ymatebion a gawsom. Yr hyn yr hoffem ni allu ei wneud, fodd bynnag, yw gwneud rhywbeth sy'n wahanol iawn. Hoffem ni gymryd y gorau o'r gweithio cydweithredol a rhanbarthol y mae hi'n ei ddisgrifio, ac rwy'n derbyn bod hynny'n rhan bwysig a chanolog o sut i ddatblygu'r rhain. Hoffem ni roi grym i awdurdodau lleol, ond hoffem ni roi grym i bobl leol hefyd. Hoffem ni allu sicrhau nawr ein bod ni'n darparu'r mathau o strwythurau yng Nghymru sy'n briodol i wlad sydd â Llywodraeth ddatganoledig, ac sy'n briodol i wlad o 3 miliwn o bobl. Rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn ni wneud hynny mewn ymgynghoriad â'n gilydd, ac y byddwn ni'n gweld rhaglen ddiwygio lawer mwy o faint, mwy pellgyrhaeddol a mwy pellweledol sy'n mynd y tu hwnt i sgwrs sych a diffrwyth am nifer yr awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru.