English: I very much accept the point that the Member makes, but obviously we need to make the case as well to the people of Wales that we require more Members in this place. Now, it's the view of my colleagues and I that any increase in the number of Assembly Members must be funded via savings arising from a reduction in the overall number of elected representatives in Wales. I note that the 'A Parliament that Works for Wales' report gives us detailed costings of the additional recurrent annual costs that could arise from an additional 20 or 30 Assembly Members. And I fully accept that these costs should be considered in the broader context of democratic representation in Wales. As a consequence of Brexit, there will no longer be Welsh MEPs, which I understand is the equivalent of funding 24 Assembly Members. I therefore accept and agree that it is perfectly feasible to increase the number of AMs at no extra cost to the taxpayer, but more work needs to be done to persuade the people of Wales that this is the right thing to do. Our amendment also calls for any additional Assembly Members to be elected on a no less proportional basis than is currently the case, and I accept that there will be a range of views across this Chamber on how Members should be elected. And that is probably the main sticking point to actually increasing the number of Assembly Members amongst politicians, because it is difficult at the moment to see how parties will agree on what electoral system should be used in electing more Members going forward. Therefore, we on this side of the Chamber believe that the Assembly Commission, in conjunction with political parties, must look at its current arrangements and establish a system that elects Members in a way that carries the support of the people it serves. Dirprwy Lywydd, my colleagues and I look forward to engaging in a dialogue with the people of Wales that explains the need to increase the capacity of this institution, and we are happy to work with the Commission and all parties to look at ways in which we can deliver future electoral arrangements that will result in increasing the effectiveness of the Assembly's operations. It's absolutely crucial that this dialogue takes place on a much bigger scale than is currently the case, because in many communities across Wales there is still very little understanding of the need to increase the number of Assembly Members. The devolution journey has continued to deliver more and more power to this institution and closer decision making has, I believe, on the whole, been a benefit to the people of Wales. But we are now at a crossroads, and I fully accept the Assembly needs additional Members to function effectively, but, fundamentally, it must come at a cost that's palatable to the people of Wales and delivered in a voting system that is supported by the people of Wales, and I, therefore, urge Members to support our amendment.
Welsh: Rwy'n bendant yn derbyn y pwynt y mae'r Aelod yn ei wneud, ond yn amlwg mae angen i ni gyflwyno'r achos hefyd i bobl Cymru fod arnom angen rhagor o Aelodau yn y lle hwn. Nawr, barn fy nghyd-Aelodau a minnau yw bod yn rhaid i unrhyw gynnydd yn nifer yr Aelodau Cynulliad gael ei ariannu drwy arbedion sy'n deillio o ostyngiad yn nifer cyffredinol y cynrychiolwyr etholedig yng Nghymru. Nodaf fod yr adroddiad 'Senedd sy'n Gweithio i Gymru' yn manylu ar y costau blynyddol rheolaidd ychwanegol a allai godi o 20 neu 30 o Aelodau Cynulliad ychwanegol. Ac rwy'n derbyn yn llwyr y dylid ystyried y costau hyn yng nghyd-destun ehangach cynrychiolaeth ddemocrataidd yng Nghymru. O ganlyniad i Brexit, ni fydd ASEau o Gymru mwyach, a deallaf fod hynny'n cyfateb i ariannu 24 o Aelodau Cynulliad. Rwy'n derbyn ac yn cytuno felly ei bod yn gwbl ymarferol inni gynyddu nifer yr ACau heb unrhyw gost ychwanegol i'r trethdalwr, ond mae angen gwneud mwy o waith i berswadio pobl Cymru mai dyma'r peth iawn i'w wneud. Mae ein gwelliant hefyd yn galw ar i unrhyw Aelodau Cynulliad ychwanegol gael eu hethol ar sail heb fod yn llai cyfrannol na'r hyn sy'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd, ac rwy'n derbyn y bydd amrywiaeth o safbwyntiau ar draws y Siambr hon ar sut y dylid ethol Aelodau. Ac mae'n debyg mai dyna'r prif rwystr i gynyddu nifer yr Aelodau Cynulliad ymhlith gwleidyddion, oherwydd mae'n anodd iawn gweld ar hyn o bryd sut y bydd pleidiau'n cytuno ar ba system etholiadol y dylid ei defnyddio i ethol mwy o Aelodau yn y dyfodol. Felly, rydym ni ar yr ochr hon i'r Siambr yn credu bod yn rhaid i Gomisiwn y Cynulliad, ar y cyd â phleidiau gwleidyddol, edrych ar ei drefniadau presennol a sefydlu system sy'n ethol Aelodau mewn ffordd sy'n ennyn cefnogaeth y bobl y mae'n eu gwasanaethu. Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae fy nghyd-Aelodau a minnau'n edrych ymlaen at gynnal deialog â phobl Cymru sy'n esbonio'r angen i gynyddu capasiti'r sefydliad hwn, ac rydym yn hapus i weithio gyda'r Comisiwn a phob plaid i edrych ar ffyrdd y gallwn gyflwyno trefniadau etholiadol yn y dyfodol a fydd yn arwain at gynyddu effeithiolrwydd gweithrediadau'r Cynulliad. Mae'n gwbl hanfodol fod y ddeialog hon yn digwydd ar raddfa lawer mwy nag sy'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd, oherwydd mewn llawer o gymunedau ledled Cymru, ychydig iawn o ddealltwriaeth a geir o hyd o'r angen i gynyddu nifer yr Aelodau Cynulliad. Mae'r daith ddatganoli wedi parhau i ddarparu mwy a mwy o bŵer i'r sefydliad hwn ac yn fy marn i, mae gwneud penderfyniadau'n agosach wedi bod o fudd i bobl Cymru. Ond rydym ar groesffordd yn awr, ac rwy'n derbyn yn llwyr fod angen Aelodau ychwanegol ar y Cynulliad i weithredu'n effeithiol, ond yn y bôn, mae'n rhaid i bobl Cymru fod yn barod i dderbyn y gost am wneud hynny a'i gyflwyno mewn system bleidleisio a gefnogir gan bobl Cymru, ac felly, rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi ein gwelliant.