English: Thank you very much indeed for your interesting report on a very important subject. I think too often in the past the primary purpose of the school system was to maximise the numbers of people who achieved five A to Cs, including English and Maths. I think it's called the capped score in the jargon. But this takes no account of the complexity and challenge of pupils' lives and their ability to learn. Many of you have already mentioned some of these and you've captured them in your report. I think, in particular, it's important to think about parental influence and families with complex and multiple needs. Today, I had the privilege to meet a young man who's now in year 13, but he started his school career aged 6 as an asylum seeker who spoke absolutely no English and had ADHD. Had he not had some really good support through his school life, I'm sure that he might well have misbehaved and got himself excluded. In addition, his mother was a teacher, so she was able to give him the sort of support to follow the curriculum in primary school that he was struggling to understand and absorb. Imagine if that child's parent had not been a teacher, didn't understand how you support young people's learning - you can see how that person could have fallen behind in their learning. The National Autistic Society evidence lists, I think, nine reasons why young people who are autistic would struggle with learning. But I would suggest that that is something that all children could struggle with, not necessarily on the scale that autistic people have. If people are not reflective of the impact of their behaviour on others, then it can lead to terrible consequences. My own granddaughter had her first detention yesterday, because she and five other six-year-olds had been unkind. One of them had written an unkind note to another child in the class, which happily the primary school was able to pick up on, and I hope that will enable them to see the consequences of unkind actions. I think that nurturing environments can be created much more easily in primary schools, because everybody knows everybody else, and they have the same class teacher, who obviously will get to know those 30 children intimately and all their needs. It's a much bigger challenge in secondary schools, which are noisier, bigger, more challenging places, less likely that the people you sit next to are also living in exactly the same community. Mental health issues, particularly in adolescence, when there are such huge challenges on young people - . We all make mistakes. If we're not making mistakes when we're adolescents, we're not learning how we're going to navigate our way in the world. What I would like to see from this debate is that we have trauma-informed approaches to all our pupils. We have the wonderful new curriculum, with its emphasis on well-being, and I want to see that being used by school leaders to revisit their responsibilities to develop enterprising and creative contributors, healthy, confident individuals, ambitious, capable learners and ethical, informed citizens, because we cannot have schools that simply exclude people because they can't be bothered to deal with their problems. That still exists in Wales, not in every school, but we need to ensure that all schools have responsibility towards the pupils who enter their school, particularly aged 11, and to ensure that they are with them until they are 16, and that the curriculum accommodates them, rather than the child having to be strait-laced into this particular curriculum. That is the way we will ensure that every child has the right to an education. That, it seems to me, is very important, as well as all the other issues around school transport that are also very important. But I just wanted to put that on the record. I'd like to challenge the Minister as to whether school leaders are expected never to exclude pupils on a permanent basis unless there were very, very special circumstances, which would have to be decided elsewhere, other than by the headteacher.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am eich adroddiad diddorol ar bwnc pwysig iawn. Yn rhy aml yn y gorffennol, rwy'n credu mai prif bwrpas y system ysgolion oedd sicrhau bod y nifer mwyaf o bobl yn cael pum gradd A i C, gan gynnwys Saesneg a Mathemateg. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn cael ei alw yn sgôr wedi'i chapio yn y jargon. Ond nid yw hyn yn ystyried cymhlethdod a her bywydau disgyblion a'u gallu i ddysgu. Mae llawer ohonoch eisoes wedi sôn am rai o'r rhain ac rydych wedi eu cynnwys yn eich adroddiad. Yn benodol, rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig meddwl am ddylanwad rhieni a theuluoedd sydd ag anghenion cymhleth a lluosog. Heddiw, cefais y fraint o gyfarfod â dyn ifanc sydd bellach ym mlwyddyn 13, ond a ddechreuodd ei yrfa ysgol yn 6 oed fel ceisiwr lloches a oedd yn byw gydag anhwylder diffyg canolbwyntio a gorfywiogrwydd ac nad oedd yn gallu siarad gair o Saesneg. Pe na bai wedi cael cefnogaeth dda iawn drwy ei fywyd ysgol, rwy'n siŵr y gallai fod wedi camymddwyn a chael ei wahardd. Yn ogystal, roedd ei fam yn athrawes, felly gallai roi cymorth iddo allu dilyn y cwricwlwm yn yr ysgol gynradd y câi hi'n anodd ei ddeall a'i amsugno. Dychmygwch pe na bai rhiant y plentyn hwnnw wedi bod yn athrawes, dychmygwch a phe na bai'n deall sut i gefnogi dysgu pobl ifanc - gallwch weld sut y gallai'r unigolyn hwnnw fod wedi syrthio ar ei hôl hi gyda'u dysgu. Mae tystiolaeth Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Awtistiaeth Cymru yn rhestru naw rheswm, rwy'n credu, pam y byddai pobl ifanc awtistig yn cael trafferth gyda'u dysgu. Ond byddwn yn awgrymu bod hynny'n rhywbeth y gallai pob plentyn gael trafferth gydag ef, nid o reidrwydd i'r un graddau â phobl awtistig. Os nad yw pobl yn myfyrio ar effaith eu hymddygiad ar eraill, gall arwain at ganlyniadau ofnadwy. Cafodd fy wyres fy hun ei chadw ar ôl ysgol am y tro cyntaf ddoe, oherwydd ei bod hi a phump o blant eraill chwech oed wedi bod yn angharedig. Roedd un ohonynt wedi ysgrifennu nodyn angharedig i blentyn arall yn y dosbarth, a diolch byth fod yr ysgol gynradd wedi sylwi ar hynny, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hynny'n eu dysgu i ystyried canlyniadau gweithredoedd angharedig. Rwy'n credu y gellir creu amgylcheddau meithringar yn llawer haws mewn ysgolion cynradd, oherwydd mae pawb yn adnabod pawb arall, ac mae ganddynt yr un athro dosbarth, a fydd yn amlwg yn dod i adnabod y 30 o blant yn eu gofal yn dda yn ogystal â'u holl anghenion. Mae'n her lawer mwy mewn ysgolion uwchradd, sy'n llefydd mwy o faint, mwy swnllyd, mwy heriol, ac mae'n llai tebygol y bydd y bobl rydych yn eistedd wrth eu hymyl yn byw yn yr un gymuned yn union. Mae problemau iechyd meddwl, yn enwedig yn ystod y glasoed, pan fo pobl ifanc yn wynebu heriau mor enfawr - . Rydym i gyd yn gwneud camgymeriadau. Os nad ydym yn gwneud camgymeriadau pan fyddwn yn ein harddegau, nid ydym yn dysgu sut i lywio ein ffordd yn y byd. Yr hyn yr hoffwn ei weld o'r ddadl hon yw bod gennym ddulliau sy'n ystyriol o drawma i'n holl ddisgyblion. Mae gennym y cwricwlwm newydd gwych, gyda'i bwyslais ar lesiant, ac rwyf eisiau gweld hwnnw'n cael ei ddefnyddio gan arweinwyr ysgol i ailedrych ar eu cyfrifoldebau i ddatblygu cyfranwyr mentrus a chreadigol, unigolion iach, hyderus, dysgwyr uchelgeisiol, galluog a dinasyddion moesegol, gwybodus, oherwydd ni allwn gael ysgolion sy'n gwahardd pobl oherwydd nad oes ganddynt amynedd i ymdrin â'u problemau. Mae hynny'n dal i fodoli yng Nghymru, nid ym mhob ysgol, ond mae angen sicrhau bod gan bob ysgol gyfrifoldeb tuag at y disgyblion sy'n dod i'w hysgol, yn enwedig plant 11 oed, a sicrhau eu bod yn aros gyda hwy tan eu bod yn 16 oed, a bod y cwricwlwm yn eu cynnwys, yn hytrach na bod rhaid gorfodi plentyn i ddilyn cwricwlwm penodol. Dyna sut y gallwn sicrhau bod gan bob plentyn hawl i addysg. Mae'n ymddangos i mi fod hynny'n bwysig iawn, yn ogystal â'r holl faterion eraill yn ymwneud â chludiant i'r ysgol sydd hefyd yn bwysig iawn. Ond roeddwn eisiau cofnodi'r pwynt hwnnw. Hoffwn herio'r Gweinidog drwy ofyn a oes disgwyl i arweinwyr ysgolion beidio byth â gwahardd disgyblion yn barhaol oni bai bod amgylchiadau arbennig iawn, y byddai'n rhaid penderfynu arnynt mewn mannau eraill, ar wahân i gan y pennaeth.