English: I think the point that is made in the report is that the international comparisons and those within the United Kingdom show that there is under-representation of the people of Wales in their national legislature. So, the international comparisons demonstrate that that under-representation makes it more difficult for us as a legislature to do our scrutiny work as compared with similar Parliaments in other parts of the world. To turn to the issue of cost, which has been referred to also this afternoon, we have to remember, of course, that it all comes down to money at the end of the day for many people. The expert panel figures are the latest available in this respect. It is estimated that an additional 20 Members in this place would cost £6.6 million per annum, with a further 30 Members costing £9.6 million. By comparison, the 2013 Treasury figures - the most recent figures, that is - estimate that spend for the four Welsh Members of the European Parliament is over £7 million currently. So, in terms of the public purse, the four Members of the European Parliament represent more than an additional 20 Assembly Members. And do remember that, if Brexit happens. So, what next? Because of the lack of consensus, but dependent on today's vote of course, the possibility of legislating by 2021 appears to be unrealistic. With that in mind, my recommendation would be to establish a temporary committee of this Assembly to build on the work of the expert panel on increasing the number of Assembly Members and reforming the electoral system. I will be asking the Business Committee to consider doing just that. There is a precedent for establishing temporary committees to look at constitutional issues, and that was particularly true in the second Assembly. By gathering evidence from relevant experts and stakeholders, we could ask a committee of that kind to report on their work before the summer of 2020, in the hope of assisting the parties as they discuss this further. I strongly believe that maintaining momentum on this issue not only merits our time and resources, but is also necessary if this Senedd is to stand the test of time and the challenges it brings. Today's debate has been a useful milestone, and I very much look forward to continuing this debate with an eye to legislating to increase the number of Members of this Senedd sooner rather than later.
Welsh: Dwi'n meddwl taw'r pwynt sydd yn cael ei wneud yn yr adroddiad yw bod y cymariaethau rhyngwladol a'r rhai o fewn y Deyrnas Gyfunol yn dangos bod yna dangynrychiolaeth o bobl Cymru yn eu deddfwrfa genedlaethol nhw. Felly, mae'r cymariaethau rhyngwladol yn dangos bod y tangynrychiolaeth yna yn ei gwneud hi'n anoddach i ni fel deddfwrfa i wneud ein gwaith sgrwtini ni o'i gymharu gyda Seneddau cyffelyb mewn rhannau eraill. Wedyn, dwi'n dod ymlaen i'r mater ynglŷn â'r gost, sydd wedi cael ei gyfeirio ato hefyd y prynhawn yma, ac mae'n rhaid cofio, wrth gwrs, mai diwedd y gân yw'r geiniog i nifer o bobl. Ffigurau'r panel arbenigol yw'r diweddaraf sydd ar gael o ran hyn. Amcangyfrifir y byddai 20 o Aelodau ychwanegol yn y lle yma yn costio £6.6 miliwn y flwyddyn, gyda 30 Aelod yn £9.6 miliwn. O'i gymharu, mae ffigyrau'r Trysorlys o 2013, y rhai mwyaf diweddar, yn amcangyfrif bod y gwariant ar bedwar Aelod Seneddol Ewropeaidd Cymru dros £7 miliwn ar hyn o bryd. I'r pwrs cyhoeddus, felly, mae pedwar Aelod o'r Senedd Ewropeaidd yn gyfwerth â dros 20 Aelod Cynulliad ychwanegol. A chofier hynny, os bydd Brexit yn digwydd. Felly, beth nesaf? Oherwydd diffyg consensws, ond yn amodol ar bleidleisiau heddiw wrth gwrs, mae'r posibilrwydd o ddeddfu erbyn 2021 yn ymddangos yn afrealistig. Gyda hynny mewn cof, fy argymhelliad i fyddai i sefydlu pwyllgor dros dro o'r Cynulliad yma i adeiladu ar waith y panel arbenigol ynghlwm â chynyddu nifer o'r Aelodau Cynulliad a diwygio'r system etholiadol. Byddaf i'n gofyn i'r Pwyllgor Busnes ystyried gwneud hyn. Mae yna gynsail o greu pwyllgorau dros dro i edrych ar faterion cyfansoddiadol o'r fath, ac roedd hynny'n enwedig o wir yn yr ail Gynulliad. Drwy gasglu tystiolaeth gan arbenigwyr a phartneriaid perthnasol, gallwn ofyn i bwyllgor o'r fath adrodd ar eu gwaith cyn haf 2020, gyda'r gobaith o gynorthwyo'r pleidiau wrth iddynt fynd ati i drafod hyn ymhellach. Rwy'n frwd o'r farn fod cynnal y momentwm ar y mater yma nid yn unig yn haeddiannol o amser ac adnoddau, ond yn angenrheidiol os yw'r Senedd hon am wrthsefyll treigl amser a'r heriau ddaw gyda hynny. Mae'r ddadl yma heddiw wedi bod yn garreg filltir ddefnyddiol, dwi'n meddwl, ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen at barhau'r drafodaeth gyda llygad ar ddeddfu i gynyddu nifer yr Aelodau i'r Senedd hon ynghynt yn hytrach nag yn hwyrach.