English: I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm grateful to the Member for Brecon and Radnor for putting forward the debate this afternoon, although I have to say to him that there are two areas that I take issue with in his introduction. The motion itself is one where I think most of us, and many of us, will agree, but there's no point - and as a Conservative, of course, you will agree with me - in pouring money into a public service that isn't working. We need reform, as well as more money. At the moment, there are many hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money supporting bus services across the whole of Wales, and the one thing we all agree on is that that money, if we doubled it, still wouldn't be sufficient and wouldn't be working. When I represented Mid and West Wales, one of the things I found was that people, wherever they lived in that region, wanted the same things, not different things. Somebody in rural Wales doesn't want a different public service environment to somebody who lives in the centre of Cardiff. What happens all too often is that they don't get the right services. People, what we found time and time again - . A fantastic introduction to this place when I was first elected was an inquiry we did on deprivation in rural Wales, and what we found, exactly as the Member has said for B and R, was that there were issues with public transport that meant that they weren't able to access public services in all sorts of different ways, but people wanted those same services, the services that I speak to people about today in Blaenau Gwent. And to try to create conflict between people in different parts of the country I don't think is the right way to deal with these things. What we need to do is agree the services that people want to see delivered, whether they live in the smallest village in Powys or in the centre of our capital city. We have to deliver those services, and it's how you deliver those services that is actually the crucial point at question here, not the services themselves. And what Thatcher did in 1986 was to break the link between what the Member himself has described as vital public services and the people who use those services, because what happened with privatisation - . It didn't happen in London, of course, and that's the really key issue: if this was such an important policy and such a breakthrough in public policy, then surely London would have experienced the same as elsewhere, but they didn't do it in London because they knew that it wouldn't work, and it hasn't worked since then. We've seen the disruption and the decline in services as a consequence of that. So, what we need to do is to fund local authorities properly, and I think this is one area of policy where the corporate joint committees could work very well, actually, with local authorities working together to deliver services across a wider region. I think that could certainly be the case in the part of Wales I represent now in Gwent. But also, I think we need to look at the structure of the industry, because we are putting hundreds of millions of pounds into an industry that isn't working. It is not sensible to continue to fund an industry that isn't working, in a way, and to fund services without reform. And, for me, the re-regulation of buses is absolutely key. The Minister in this area has made commitments time and time again to not only more comprehensive public service offerings, but also multimodal public services. The only way you can achieve that is through public control and public regulation of those services. So, we need to be able to do that. We need the tools, and I hope that the Welsh Government, in replying to this debate, will say that they are working with local government and with bus operators to ensure that we do have the tools available to us to ensure that the villages represented by the Member in B and R and the towns represented by me have the services that they require, at the times that they need those services, but also it's the quality of the services that are on offer. We all know that, quite often - . And I've seen down in Cardiff recently that there is a whole fleet of new electric buses there. It's fantastic. It's fantastic for the people of Cardiff. I want to see that in Blaenau Gwent, and why can't I see that in Blaenau Gwent? And why shouldn't you have that in Ceredigion or Brecon and Radnor or Conwy? Why shouldn't you have access to the same quality of service in all parts of Wales as you have in the centre of Cardiff? That is surely the ambition Government must have. And what we should be doing, on this Wednesday afternoon, in bringing forward these debates and scrutinising the Government, is to say: what policy tools are you going to employ in order to achieve that? And there isn't a policy tool available to Government, with the exception of re-regulation, with the exception of public control, that is going to deliver the public services, in particular in rural Wales, that the Member says that he wants to achieve. So, I will close, Deputy Presiding Officer, but one thing about good, high-quality public services that we all know is that they don't make money for people who don't use them. That means that we need public control of public services to ensure that the quality is available to people and, then, to co-ordinate those public services to deliver the services in all parts of Wales that the Member has described. And I hope that before this Senedd goes into the next election that we will have a bus Act on the statute book that will re-regulate the services and provide the foundation for the sort of high-quality public transport service that we can all be proud of. Thank you.
Welsh: Rwy'n ddiolchgar i chi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Aelod dros Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed am gyflwyno'r ddadl y prynhawn yma, er bod yn rhaid imi ddweud wrtho fod dau beth rwy'n anghytuno â hwy yn ei gyflwyniad. Mae'r cynnig ei hun yn un y credaf y bydd y rhan fwyaf ohonom, a llawer ohonom, yn cytuno yn ei gylch, ond nid oes pwynt - ac fel Ceidwadwr, wrth gwrs, fe fyddwch yn cytuno â mi - arllwys arian i mewn i wasanaeth cyhoeddus nad yw'n gweithio. Mae angen diwygio, yn ogystal â mwy o arian. Ar hyn o bryd, mae cannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd o arian trethdalwyr yn cefnogi gwasanaethau bysiau ledled Cymru gyfan, a'r un peth y mae pob un ohonom yn cytuno yn ei gylch yw na fyddai'r arian hwnnw, pe baem yn ei ddyblu, yn ddigon o hyd, ac ni fyddai'n gweithio. Pan oeddwn yn cynrychioli Canolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru, un o'r pethau a welais oedd bod pobl, ni waeth ble yn y rhanbarth hwnnw roeddent yn byw, eisiau yr un pethau, nid pethau gwahanol. Nid yw rhywun yng nghefn gwlad Cymru eisiau gwasanaeth cyhoeddus gwahanol i rywun sy'n byw yng nghanol Caerdydd. Yr hyn sy'n digwydd yn rhy aml o lawer yw nad ydynt yn cael y gwasanaethau cywir. Fel y gwelsom dro ar ôl tro - . Cyflwyniad gwych i'r lle hwn, pan gefais fy ethol gyntaf, oedd ymchwiliad a wnaethom ar amddifadedd yng nghefn gwlad Cymru, a'r hyn a welsom, yn union fel y dywedodd yr Aelod dros Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed, oedd bod problemau gyda thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn golygu nad oeddent yn gallu cael mynediad at wasanaethau cyhoeddus mewn pob math o wahanol ffyrdd, ond roedd pobl eisiau yr un gwasanaethau, y gwasanaethau rwy'n siarad â phobl amdanynt heddiw ym Mlaenau Gwent. Ac ni chredaf mai ceisio creu gwrthdaro rhwng pobl mewn gwahanol rannau o'r wlad yw'r ffordd iawn o ymdrin â'r pethau hyn. Mae angen inni gytuno ar y gwasanaethau y mae pobl am eu gweld yn cael eu darparu, boed eu bod yn byw yn y pentref lleiaf ym Mhowys neu ynghanol ein prifddinas. Mae'n rhaid inni ddarparu'r gwasanaethau hynny, a'r ffordd rydych yn darparu'r gwasanaethau hynny yw'r pwynt hollbwysig dan sylw yma, nid y gwasanaethau eu hunain. A'r hyn a wnaeth Thatcher ym 1986 oedd torri'r cysylltiad rhwng yr hyn y mae'r Aelod ei hun wedi'i ddisgrifio fel gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hanfodol a'r bobl sy'n defnyddio'r gwasanaethau hynny, gan mai'r hyn a ddigwyddodd gyda phreifateiddio - . Ni ddigwyddodd yn Llundain, wrth gwrs, a dyna'r pwynt allweddol: pe bai hwn yn bolisi mor bwysig ac yn ddatblygiad mor arloesol mewn polisi cyhoeddus, byddai Llundain wedi profi'r un peth â mannau eraill, ond ni wnaethant hyn yn Llundain am eu bod yn gwybod na fyddai'n gweithio, ac nid yw wedi gweithio ers hynny. Gwelsom y tarfu a'r toriadau i wasanaethau o ganlyniad i hynny. Felly, yr hyn y mae angen inni ei wneud yw ariannu awdurdodau lleol yn iawn, a chredaf fod hwn yn un maes polisi lle gallai'r cyd-bwyllgorau corfforaethol weithio'n dda iawn mewn gwirionedd, gydag awdurdodau lleol yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd i ddarparu gwasanaethau ar draws rhanbarth ehangach. Yn sicr, credaf y gallai hynny fod yn wir yn y rhan o Gymru rwy'n ei chynrychioli yn awr yng Ngwent. Ond credaf hefyd fod angen inni edrych ar strwythur y diwydiant, gan ein bod yn rhoi cannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd i mewn i ddiwydiant nad yw'n gweithio. Nid yw'n synhwyrol parhau i ariannu diwydiant nad yw'n gweithio, mewn ffordd, ac ariannu gwasanaethau heb eu diwygio. Ac i mi, mae ailreoleiddio bysiau'n gwbl allweddol. Mae'r Gweinidog yn y maes hwn wedi gwneud ymrwymiadau dro ar ôl tro nid yn unig i gynnig gwasanaethau cyhoeddus mwy cynhwysfawr, ond gwasanaethau cyhoeddus aml-ddull hefyd. Yr unig ffordd y gallwch gyflawni hynny yw drwy reolaeth gyhoeddus a rheoleiddio cyhoeddus ar y gwasanaethau hynny. Felly, mae angen inni allu gwneud hynny. Mae arnom angen yr offer, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru, wrth ymateb i'r ddadl hon, yn dweud eu bod yn gweithio gyda llywodraeth leol a chyda gweithredwyr bysiau i sicrhau bod gennym yr offer ar gael i ni i sicrhau bod y pentrefi a gynrychiolir gan yr Aelod dros Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed a'r trefi a gynrychiolir gennyf fi yn cael y gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen arnynt, ar yr adegau y mae angen y gwasanaethau hynny arnynt, ond mae hyn yn ymwneud hefyd ag ansawdd y gwasanaethau a gynigir. Gŵyr pob un ohonom, yn aml iawn - . Ac rwyf wedi gweld i lawr yng Nghaerdydd yn ddiweddar fod fflyd gyfan o fysiau trydan newydd yno. Mae'n wych. Mae'n wych i bobl Caerdydd. Rwyf am weld hynny ym Mlaenau Gwent, a pham na allaf weld hynny ym Mlaenau Gwent? A pham na ddylech gael hynny yng Ngheredigion neu Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed neu Gonwy? Pam na ddylech gael mynediad at wasanaeth o'r un safon ym mhob rhan o Gymru ag sydd gennych ynghanol Caerdydd? Dyna ddylai fod yn uchelgais i'r Llywodraeth. A'r hyn y dylem ei wneud, y prynhawn dydd Mercher yma, wrth gyflwyno'r dadleuon hyn a chraffu ar y Llywodraeth, yw dweud: pa offer polisi rydych yn mynd i'w defnyddio i gyflawni hynny? Ac nid oes offeryn polisi ar gael i'r Llywodraeth, ac eithrio ailreoleiddio, ac eithrio rheolaeth gyhoeddus, sy'n mynd i ddarparu'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus, yn enwedig yng nghefn gwlad Cymru, y mae'r Aelod yn dweud ei fod am eu sicrhau. Felly, rwyf am gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ond un peth y gŵyr pob un ohonom am wasanaethau cyhoeddus da o ansawdd uchel yw nad ydynt yn gwneud arian i bobl nad ydynt yn eu defnyddio. Golyga hynny fod angen inni gael rheolaeth gyhoeddus ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus i sicrhau bod yr ansawdd ar gael i bobl, ac yna, cydgysylltu'r gwasanaethau cyhoeddus hynny i ddarparu'r gwasanaethau ym mhob rhan o Gymru y mae'r Aelod wedi'u disgrifio. Ac rwy'n gobeithio, cyn i'r Senedd hon fynd i mewn i'r etholiad nesaf, y bydd gennym Ddeddf bysiau ar y llyfr statud a fydd yn ailreoleiddio'r gwasanaethau ac yn darparu'r sylfaen ar gyfer y math o wasanaeth trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus o ansawdd uchel y gallwn i gyd fod yn falch ohono. Diolch.