techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: Llafariad. Thank you. 'You don't have vowels in Welsh' - it's because of that barrier, isn't it? If they understood more about the Welsh language - . So, do you have other ideas about - I know this is a little - . It is linked, I think, to the question. Do you have any other ideas about how we could get the population as a whole to feel, when they see place names in Welsh, that they belong to them and that they don't always - ? Or should there should be more places that explain the background of a name or something? How do you feel about that?
Welsh: Llafariad. Diolch. 'Does gennych chi ddim llafariaid yn Gymraeg' - mae e achos y dieithrwch yna, mae e'n dod o - . Os oedden nhw'n deall mwy am y Gymraeg - . So, oes gennych chi syniadau eraill ynglŷn â sut - dwi'n gwybod bod hyn tipyn bach yn - . Mae e'n gysylltiedig, rwy'n meddwl. Oes gennych chi syniadau eraill o ran sut byddem ni'n gallu cael y boblogaeth yn gyffredinol i deimlo, pan maen nhw'n gweld enwau llefydd yn Gymraeg, eu bod nhw'n perthyn iddyn nhw a bod dim angen wastad - ? A ddylai fod mwy o lefydd sydd yn esbonio cefndir yr enw neu rywbeth? Beth ydych chi'n teimlo?
English: And that would be the same for Welsh speakers as well, if they don't understand the background of the name. Okay, yes, they could pronounce it, but they wouldn't feel that connection with the name.
Welsh: A byddai hynny yr un peth i siaradwyr Cymraeg hefyd, os nad ydyn nhw'n deall cefndir yr enw. Ocê, bydden nhw'n gallu ynganu'r peth, ond bydden nhw ddim yn teimlo'r cysylltiad yna gyda'r enw.
English: And how many of us do understand the source and meaning of these names? I think telling the story of those names is very important. There have been some popular campaigns. You may recall a video by the comedian Tudur Owen talking about name changes - Llyn Bochlwyd and Lake Australia, for example. That got a great deal of attention and grasped people's imagination. So, there's this idea of telling the story, and I do see that there would be some scope for national campaigns in this area and we could use that to attract tourists, for example. Llanfairpwllgwyngyll was a name that was designed to attract tourists. We have to think creatively about this area and how we use these names in order to set us apart and to attract people through the names rather than them being a barrier to people. We should use them as a means of drawing people into our history.
Welsh: A faint ohonon ni sydd yn deall tarddiad ac ystyr yr enwau yma go iawn? Dwi'n meddwl bod adrodd straeon yr enwau yn bwysig. Hynny yw, mae yna ymgyrchoedd poblogaidd wedi cael lot o sylw. Efallai eich bod chi'n cofio fideo oedd gan y comedïwr Tudur Owen yn sôn am newid enwau amlwg iawn - Llyn Bochlwyd, Lake Australia. Roedd hynny wedi cael lot o sylw ac wedi gafael yn nychymyg pobl - hynny yw, y syniad yma o adrodd straeon. A dwi yn gweld y byddai yna le ar gyfer ymgyrchoedd cenedlaethol yn y maes yma. Hynny yw, ein bod ni'n gallu eu defnyddio nhw i ddenu twristiaid. Llanfairpwllgwyngyll - enw i ddenu twristiaid oedd yr enw hwnnw yn y lle cyntaf. Mae eisiau inni feddwl yn greadigol am y maes hefyd a sut mae defnyddio'r enwau yma i'n gosod ni ar wahân, a denu pobl drwy'r enwau, yn hytrach na'u bod nhw'n rhwystr i bobl - eu defnyddio nhw fel ffordd o ddenu pobl mewn i'n hanes ni.
English: I've done work with primary schools and secondary schools, and with community groups as well in Cardiff, through the medium of Welsh and English, and the enthusiasm for the names when people see that their street's name is more than just a random name - it's connected to the place for a century or two centuries, perhaps, ago. It comes alive to them, and the children are delighted to see what the story of their street and that place was, and feel ownership for that name. There's an urban context, often, in Cardiff, and it's not very easy to have that feeling of ownership for the Welsh language, but it's easy to get that through the names very often.
Welsh: Dwi wedi gwneud gwaith gydag ysgolion cynradd ac uwchradd, gyda grwpiau cymunedol yng Nghaerdydd, drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg a Saesneg, ac mae brwdfrydedd ynglŷn â'r enwau pan mae pobl yn gweld bod eu henw stryd nhw'n fwy na ryw enw ar hap a damwain - eu bod nhw'n gysylltiedig â hanes y lle ers efallai canrif, dwy ganrif neu fwy, beth bynnag. Mae'n dod yn fyw, ac mae plant wrth eu boddau'n gweld eu stryd nhw, a beth oedd hanes y lle, achos maen nhw'n teimlo perchnogaeth dros hynny, ac yn aml iawn yn y cyd-destun dinesig yng Nghaerdydd, dyw e ddim bob tro yn hawdd cael yr ymdeimlad o berchnogaeth yna dros y Gymraeg, ac mae'n dod drosodd trwy drafod enwau lleoedd yn aml iawn.
English: There is the example of Pontlottyn, where my mother was born. It used to be called 'Sodom and Gomorrah', but when the train company opened a station there they decided that they couldn't put down in their annual report that they'd opened a station in Sodom and Gomorrah, so they changed the name. But Pontlottyn - I think there is a bridge that was owned by Lot in the same biblical story, so there is a connection, but people don't understand that connection. But if more people understood the story, and that's quite an amusing story as well - but, sorry, I digress. [ Interruption.] Sorry, did you have anything further to say on that?
Welsh: Mae yna enghraifft: Pontlotyn, lle'r oedd fy mam wedi cael ei geni - roedd yn arfer cael ei enwi, yn gynt, yn 'Sodom a Gomorrah', ond pan oedd y cwmni trên wedi agor stesion yna, roedden nhw wedi penderfynu eu bod nhw'n methu rhoi lawr yn yr adroddiad blynyddol, 'Rydyn ni wedi agor stesion yn Sodom a Gomorrah', so gwnaethon nhw newid yr enw. Ond 'Pontlotyn' - dwi'n meddwl bod yna bont gan berson o'r enw 'Lot' yn yr un stori Feiblaidd, so mae yna gysylltiad, ond dyw pobl byth yn deall hynna. So, eto, os oedd mwy o bobl yn gwybod yr hanes, ac mae'n hanes doniol hefyd - sori, I digress. [ Torri ar draws. ] Sori, oeddech chi eisiau dweud rhywbeth mwy ar hynna?
English: Can I just focus on Pontlottyn, just to pursue a different route here? In my field of work, I'm responsible for recommending standardised place names on behalf of the commissioner. 'Pontlottyn' is a name that we've been discussing with Caerphilly, and, of course, at the moment there are two forms at least of spelling 'Pontlottyn', one with one 't' and one with two. So, issues like that are difficult in terms of deciding what form goes on a sign, what forms you put on databases. That is, is it sensible for you to have two such similar forms on one sign - one English form, as it were, and one Welsh form? Those are the kinds of issues that we're trying to grapple with as an office, and offer guidance on them, but we don't have statutory powers at all in this field, and that makes it very difficult for us at times.
Welsh: Gaf i jest fachu ar enghraifft Pontlotyn, i fynd â ni ar drywydd ychydig bach yn wahanol? Yn fy maes gwaith i, rwyf i'n gyfrifol am weinyddu cyfrifoldeb y comisiynydd dros argymell ffurfiau safonol enwau lleoedd. Mae 'Pontlotyn' yn enw rydym ni wedi bod yn ei drafod yn ddiweddar iawn gyda Chaerffili, ac, wrth gwrs, ar hyn o bryd mae yna ddwy ffurf o leiaf reit amlwg o sillafu 'Pontlotyn', un gyda dwy 't' ac un gydag un. Hynny yw, mae materion fel yna yn anodd o ran pennu pa ffurfiau sydd yn mynd ar arwydd, pa ffurfiau rŷch chi'n eu rhoi mewn cronfeydd data. Hynny yw, ydy hi'n synhwyrol go iawn fod gyda chi ddwy ffurf mor agos at ei gilydd ar arwydd, o dan ei gilydd - un y ffurf Saesneg a'r llall yn ffurf Gymraeg? Dyna'r math o gwestiynau rŷn ni'n ymrafael â nhw fel swyddfa, ac yn ceisio cynnig arweiniad yn eu cylch nhw. Ond does dim grym statudol gyda ni o gwbl yn y maes yma, ac mae hynny'n gwneud pethau yn anodd ar adegau.
English: And I think that's something that David Melding will pick up on a little later - so, a spoiler there. Could I also ask about the statutory list that the Welsh Government has drawn up? As we understand it, the list doesn't formally safeguard place names, so do you think that the list of historic place names goes far enough? I think the reason why they didn't go that far was because of issues surrounding human rights. They said that that was one of the reasons why people said that they shouldn't have those powers. Do you have any views on that?
Welsh: A dwi'n meddwl bod hynny'n rhywbeth y bydd David Melding yn dod nôl ato fe wedyn, so spoiler fanna. Allaf i ofyn hefyd am y rhestr statudol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i chreu? Fel dŷn ni'n deall, dyw'r rhestr ddim yn rhoi'r grym i'r Llywodraeth i - wel, dyw e ddim yn rhoi diogelwch ffurfiol i'r enwau. So, ydych chi'n meddwl bod hynna'n mynd yn ddigon pell? Rwy'n deall mai un o'r rhesymau pam nad oedden nhw wedi mynd mor bell â hynna oedd achos hawliau dynol. Roedden nhw'n dweud bod hynna'n un o'r rhesymau pam fod pobl wedi dweud y dylen nhw ddim cael y grym yna. Oes gennych chi farn ar hynna?
English: It's certainly an interesting and useful resource for some people. Now, there is a huge variety of names, as we've heard already from Eleri and Dylan, in that list, including 'Caernarvon' - with a 'v' - that kind of example. Most of those names have come from a time where the Government was actively against the Welsh language; we're in a very different phase now. I wasn't familiar with the list, I have to say, but I did have a look at it yesterday. There is some incorrect recording of information of place names, which means that there are some names listed there that have never been used. They've just been miscopied very recently to the list. The legislation establishing the list says that the list should assist those in making decisions. I think that's very problematic indeed, given the list as it currently stands, and the very nature of the list, if truth be told. I would agree with Dylan's point that perhaps putting a list in legislation or in subordinate legislation isn't part of the solution, but if it is part of the solution, this list certainly isn't fit for purpose.
Welsh: Mae'n adnodd, yn sicr, diddorol a defnyddiol i rai pobl, dwi'n meddwl. Mae pob math o amrywiaeth o enwau, fel dŷn ni wedi clywed yn barod gan Eleri a Dylan - mae pob math o amrywiaeth o enwau yn y rhestr yna, gan gynnwys 'Caernarvon' - gyda 'v' - y math yna o beth. Mae'r rhan fwyaf o'r enwau yna wedi dod o gyfnod pan oedd y Llywodraeth yn trio cael gwared ar y Gymraeg. Rŷn ni mewn cyfnod hollol wahanol erbyn hyn. Doeddwn i ddim yn gyfarwydd â'r rhestr, mae'n rhaid i fi ddweud, ond wnes i edrych arni ddoe ac mae yna gopïo anghywir hefyd o lefydd eraill, sy'n golygu bod yna enwau lawr yna sydd erioed wedi cael eu defnyddio, jest wedi cael eu camgopïo yn ddiweddar iawn i'r rhestr. Mae'r Ddeddf sy'n sefydlu'r rhestr yn dweud bod y rhestr i fod i gynorthwyo'r rheini sy'n gwneud penderfyniadau. Dwi'n meddwl bod hynny'n broblemus iawn o ystyried y rhestr fel y mae ar hyn o bryd, a holl natur y rhestr mewn gwirionedd. Byddwn i'n cytuno gyda beth y mae Dylan newydd ei ddweud: efallai bod rhoi rhestr mewn deddfwriaeth neu mewn is-ddeddfwriaeth ddim yn rhan o'r ateb, ond os yw e'n rhan o'r ateb, dyw'r rhestr yma yn sicr ddim yn addas ar gyfer gwneud hynny.
English: I would want to emphasise that I see the list as being very innovative and important, but it's a first step. Certainly, we need something to bridge the gap between the forms that are recorded and the support that is given to individuals and local authorities. I understand that there is some assistance provided and that the officials responsible for the list are very willing to help, but we need to make that shop window more prominent and we need something to bridge the gap in information.
Welsh: Buaswn i eisiau pwysleisio fy mod yn gweld y rhestr yn arloesol ac yn bwysig ond yn gam cyntaf, ac yn sicr bod eisiau rhywbeth i bontio'r bwlch wedyn rhwng y ffurfiau yma sy'n cael eu cofnodi a'r cyngor sy'n cael ei roi i unigolion ac awdurdodau lleol. Hynny yw, rwy'n deall bod yna ryw gymaint o gymorth yn cael ei gynnig a bod y swyddogion sy'n gyfrifol am y rhestr yn barod iawn eu cymorth, ond bod eisiau gwneud y ffenest siop yna'n amlycach a, hynny yw, yn sicr bod eisiau rhywbeth i bontio'r bwlch gwybodaeth yna.
English: Yes, that's fine.
Welsh: Ydw, mae'n iawn.
English: Thank you, Chair. What needs to be done? That's the question in my mind. I think we're spending too much time arguing about whether there should be a 't' in Llansanffraid or one 'm' or two in Brynamman or a hyphen in Pencoed. I don't think it makes any difference to the language. I think Dylan has made the point very strongly. You change a name overnight and then there's a legacy of centuries being lost, and very often, it won't come back. So, what I wanted to ask all of you in a way is: if we were in a situation where there was a presumption that the original Welsh name should stay, if there wasn't a good reason to change the name - . Of course, the next question is: what's a good reason for changing a name? That's very difficult to define in law and I can see the courts being very busy if that were to happen. And there is a difference of opinion amongst all of you, but are we talking about a system where there's a presumption or are we talking about a system where there's no right to change a name, if the original name is in Welsh? Because I think it would assist me to know what your opinion is as to what kind of system would work best.
Welsh: Diolch, Gadeirydd. Beth felly sydd eisiau ei wneud? Dyna'r cwestiwn yn fy mhen i. Rwy'n credu ein bod ni'n hala gormod o amser yn dadlau a ddylai fod yna 't' yn Llansanffraid neu un 'm' neu ddwy 'm' yn Brynaman neu hyphen ym Mhencoed. Dwi ddim yn credu ei fod yn gwneud unrhyw fath o wahaniaeth i'r iaith. Ond rwy'n credu bod Dylan wedi gwneud y pwynt yn gryf iawn. Rŷch chi'n newid enw dros nos ac mae etifeddiaeth o ganrifoedd yn cael ei golli, a dyw'r etifeddiaeth yna, y rhan fwyaf o'r amser, ddim yn dod nôl. So, beth roeddwn i'n meddwl jest gofyn i chi i gyd mewn ffordd yw hwn: pe buasai sefyllfa gyda ni lle byddai yna ragdybiaeth y dylai'r enw gwreiddiol Cymraeg sefyll, os nad oes yna reswm da dros newid yr enw - . Wrth gwrs y cwestiwn nesaf yw: beth yw rheswm da? Mae hwnna'n hynod o anodd i'w ddiffinio yn y gyfraith a dwi'n gallu gweld y llysoedd yn fishi dros ben pe buasai hwnna'n digwydd. So, ydym ni'n siarad - ac mae yna farn wahanol gyda chi i gyd - am system lle mae yna ragdybiaeth neu ydym ni'n siarad am system lle does dim hawl i newid enw, os taw enw Cymraeg yw e? Achos rwy'n credu y byddai o gymorth i fi i wybod beth yw eich barn chi o ran pa fath o system efallai fyddai'n gweithio orau.
English: Cymdeithas yr Iaith would argue that names should not be changed. That is, there shouldn't just be a presumption or the ability to give a reason; Welsh names should not be changed into other languages. And there's always the possibility that if a name isn't historical and it's a Welsh name, and one doesn't like that name, then perhaps you could give the house another Welsh name rather than choosing an English name usually or a name in other languages that have no connection to the area.
Welsh: Byddai Cymdeithas yr Iaith yn dadlau na ddylid newid enwau. Hynny yw, nid dim ond rhagdybiaeth neu nid dim ond rhoi rheswm, ond na ddylid newid enwau Cymraeg i enwau ieithoedd eraill yn y bôn. Ac mae wastad y posibilrwydd, os nad yw'r enw'n hanesyddol a'i fod yn enw Cymraeg a bod rhywun ddim yn hoffi'r enw Cymraeg, byddai modd efallai i bobl rhoi enw Cymraeg arall ar y tŷ yn hytrach na dewis enw - Saesneg fel arfer, ond hefyd ieithoedd eraill - sydd â dim cysylltiad â'r ardal yna.
English: Broadly speaking, I would agree with Dylan. Although it is tragic to lose some names, I think you're entering very difficult ground when you restrict people's rights to change names and I think you'd have to look very carefully at which names we are talking about and which are significant or important. But certainly, we need to look at what local authorities can do to persuade people to keep names where they do have significance.
Welsh: Dwi'n meddwl buaswn i'n cytuno'n fras iawn â Dylan. Hynny yw, er tristed colli rhai enwau, dwi'n meddwl, hynny yw, eich bod chi'n symud i dir anodd iawn pan rŷch chi'n cyfyngu ar hawliau pobl i newid enwau a bod yn rhaid edrych yn ofalus ar ba enwau rŷn ni'n sôn amdanyn nhw a pha rhai sy'n arwyddocaol neu'n bwysig mewn gwirionedd, ond yn sicr bod eisiau edrych ar beth y mae awdurdodau lleol yn gallu ei wneud i ddwyn perswâd ar bobl i gadw enwau lle mae'r rheini'n rhai arwyddocaol.
English: There are different categories of names, of course, but I think we would accept the principle that Dylan was talking about in terms of Sweden, I believe, where the principle is that, when you buy a house, you're not necessarily buying all rights relating to that name or to get rid of that name. If that's a name that has been there for centuries, then we are here for a short period of time on this earth and I would argue that that name belongs to the community and to the nation.
Welsh: Mae yna gategorïau gwahanol o enwau, wrth gwrs, ond dwi'n meddwl bydden ni'n derbyn yr egwyddor yr oedd Dylan yn sôn amdano fe yr oedden nhw'n defnyddio yn Sweden, rwy'n credu, lle'r egwyddor yw, pan rŷch chi'n prynu tŷ, dŷch chi ddim o reidrwydd yn prynu'r holl hawl ar yr enw yna ac i gael gwared ar yr enw yna. Os yw hwnna'n enw sydd yna ers canrifoedd, rŷn ni yma am gyfnod byr ar y ddaear a byddwn i'n dadlau bod yr enw yna'n perthyn i'r gymuned ac i'r genedl.
English: Just one thing that struck me, many people would say that this is a matter of human rights and that people have the right to name their property in any way that they choose. Now, I wouldn't accept that, but, of course, there are examples that aren't quite the same, but it is something to consider: in some countries, such as France and Iceland, you don't have the right to name your child unless that name is included on an official list. Now, children aren't property, of course - I would say it's the other way around, if anything - . There was some mention there from you, Eleri, at the end, but just to say that I don't think that that is a barrier to some kind of ban, as Osian mentioned, or presumption as Dylan mentioned. I don't think there are any barriers in terms of introducing those approaches.
Welsh: Jest un pwynt a wnaeth fy nharo i, byddai sawl un yn dweud bod hwn yn fater o hawliau dynol a bod gan bobl yr hawl i enwi eu heiddo yn unrhyw ffordd maen nhw'n moyn. Dwi ddim yn derbyn hwnna. Ond, wrth gwrs, mae yna enghreifftiau sydd ddim cweit yr un peth, ond jest yn rhywbeth i edrych arnyn nhw: mewn rhai gwledydd, sef Ffrainc a Gwlad yr Iâ, does dim hawl i chi rhoi enw i'ch plentyn heb fod yr enw hwnnw'n dod o restr swyddogol. Nawr, dyw plant ddim yn eiddo, wrth gwrs - wel, y ffordd arall rownd bydden i'n dweud - . Roedd tamaid bach o sôn yn fanna oddi wrthych chi, Eleri, ar y diwedd, ond jest i wneud y pwynt, dwi ddim yn credu bod hwnna'n rhwystriad yn erbyn rhoi rhyw fath o waharddiad, i dithau, Osian, a rhyw fath o ragdybiaeth felly i Dylan. Dwi ddim yn credu ei fod yn unrhyw fath o rwystr rhag gwneud hynna.
English: Any comments on that? You don't have to comment.
Welsh: Oes sylw ar hynny? Does dim rhaid i chi.
English: I didn't know about that list in Iceland. Very interesting. David Melding.
Welsh: Doeddwn i ddim yn gwybod am y rhestr yng Ngwlad yr Iâ. Diddorol iawn. David Melding.
English: Anyone? Dylan.
Welsh: Unrhyw un? Dylan.
English: I would focus on some of those points made and emphasise the need to build resources and capacity in this field. The proposed policy in Cardiff is very much to be welcomed. It's ambitious in terms of the Welsh language and our heritage, and they're going to have a panel of experts to assist them in that endeavour. We need to train our experts, but we also need to engage locally and ensure that the voice of local people, local history societies, are part of those decisions so that the community does feel ownership over any new names. I think it's significant as well how powerful the community voice can be when we're talking about changing names. If we think about some names that did receive a great deal of attention in the press and locally, such as Plas Glynllifon and Llechwedd, those decisions were overturned as a result of protests and the local voice being expressed. So, it's a circle, isn't it, in terms of educating people locally and ensuring that they take pride in their local names. That's a way of avoiding a few problems, ultimately.
Welsh: Buaswn i'n bachu ar rai o'r sylwadau yna i fynd ar drywydd ychydig yn wahanol hefyd, a phwysleisio'r angen am adeiladu adnoddau a chapasiti yn y maes. Mae polisi arfaethedig Caerdydd i'w groesawu'n fawr. Mae'n uchelgeisiol o ran y Gymraeg a'n treftadaeth ni, ac maen nhw'n mynd i gael panel o arbenigwyr i'w cynorthwyo nhw yn hynny. Mae eisiau hyfforddi ein harbenigwyr ni, ond mae hefyd eisiau ymgysylltu'n lleol a sicrhau bod llais pobl leol, cymdeithasau hanes lleol, yn rhan o benderfyniadau fel yna, fel bod y gymuned yn teimlo perchnogaeth dros unrhyw enwau newydd. Dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n arwyddocaol pa mor rymus yw llais cymuned yn gallu bod pan ydym ni'n sôn am newid enwau. Os ydym ni'n meddwl am rai enwau a gafodd lot o sylw yn y wasg ac yn lleol - enwau fel Plas Glynllifon a Llechwedd - gwyrdrowyd y penderfyniadau yna yn dilyn protest a barn leol. Hynny yw, mae'n gylch, onid yw e, o ran addysgu pobl yn lleol a sicrhau eu bod nhw'n ymfalchïo yn eu henwau. Wedyn, mae hynny'n ffordd o osgoi ambell broblem hefyd yn y pen draw.