English: The referendum for this place was very narrowly decided on. There was no guarantee there was going to be a referendum for this place. It came about because Tony Blair and Ron Davies had a conversation. I don't think we needed a referendum. The Labour Government had just been elected with a massive majority, the Liberal Democrats were supporting the Senedd, Plaid Cymru were supporting the Senedd, what was the point in a referendum in 1997? I didn't support it then and I don't support referendums now. They represent the failure of democracy. Why didn't we have a referendum for police and crime commissioner posts? Why didn't we have a referendum for the transferrable vote system used for them? We didn't because we didn't need one, and we don't need a referendum for this. Any arguments that you have against reforming a legislature, based on the arguments that have been put forward by Darren Millar today, and particularly with regard to calling for a referendum, are fatally undermined by support for the House of Lords. The House of Lords is an institution - [ Interruption.] I'm not going to give you another intervention. The House of Lords is an institution that is continually growing, and it is time for that to be reformed. If you got rid of 571 - [ Interruption.] No, I'm not giving you another intervention. If you got rid of 571 peers, and directly elected them, you'd have plenty of room for 36 more Members. You've already got rid of Members of Parliament from Wales. That gives you plenty of room for more Senedd Members. You've got rid of Members of the European Parliament from Wales. That gives you plenty of room for more Senedd Members. So, I don't believe that that is a fair position to take. Coming to Jane Dodds's two points, on the single transferrable vote, I agree with her. I think she's right, the single transferrable vote would be better, but if you want to do that, I don't think that would be achievable by 2026, to be frank. I think what we've got here is a compromise. I know people on these benches who I've spoken to privately are compromising on their beliefs. I suspect a lot over there are compromising. The Conservatives are being unwilling to compromise here, which is unfortunate. If we are going to get this through by 2026, then we must vote in favour of this report today. I would prefer to see a single transferrable vote. The boundary issue, though, I'm not so bothered about, because that has already, as Alun Davies said in his intervention, gone through a boundary commission process. My final point is that if scrutiny is to be improved, what we need to have is the politicians in this Chamber scrutinising properly this Government. That means coming into this Chamber not with a speech that was written by an adviser 24 hours before, but actually coming in here and speaking to the debate. But it also requires us to have a civic society, a public sphere, that challenges Government too, and we need support for that. [ Interruption.] Dirprwy Lywydd, can I take that intervention?
Welsh: Penderfyniad a allai fod wedi mynd y naill ffordd neu'r llall oedd cael refferendwm ar gyfer y lle hwn. Nid oedd sicrwydd o gwbl y byddai refferendwm ar gyfer y lle hwn. Fe ddigwyddodd am fod Tony Blair a Ron Davies wedi cael sgwrs. Nid wyf yn credu bod angen inni fod wedi cael refferendwm. Roedd y Llywodraeth Lafur newydd gael ei hethol gyda mwyafrif enfawr, roedd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn cefnogi'r Senedd, roedd Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi'r Senedd, beth oedd pwynt cael refferendwm yn 1997? Nid oeddwn yn ei gefnogi bryd hynny ac nid wyf yn cefnogi refferenda yn awr. Methiant democratiaeth ydynt. Pam na chawsom refferendwm ar gyfer swyddi'r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu? Pam na chawsom refferendwm ar gyfer system y bleidlais drosglwyddadwy a ddefnyddiwyd ar eu cyfer? Ni chawsom rai am nad oeddem eu hangen, ac nid oes angen refferendwm ar gyfer hyn. Mae unrhyw ddadleuon sydd gennych yn erbyn diwygio deddfwrfa, yn seiliedig ar y dadleuon a gyflwynwyd gan Darren Millar heddiw, ac yn enwedig mewn perthynas â galw am refferendwm, yn cael eu tanseilio'n ddybryd gan gefnogaeth i Dŷ'r Arglwyddi. Mae Tŷ'r Arglwyddi yn sefydliad - [ Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf yn mynd i roi ymyriad arall i chi. Mae Tŷ'r Arglwyddi yn sefydliad sy'n tyfu'n barhaus, ac mae'n bryd ei ddiwygio. Pe baech yn cael gwared ar 571 - [ Torri ar draws.] Na, nid wyf yn rhoi ymyriad arall i chi. Pe baech yn cael gwared ar 571 o arglwyddi, ac yn eu hethol yn uniongyrchol, byddai gennych ddigon o le i 36 Aelod arall. Rydych eisoes wedi cael gwared ar Aelodau Seneddol o Gymru. Mae hynny'n rhoi digon o le ichi gael mwy o Aelodau o'r Senedd. Rydych chi wedi cael gwared ar Aelodau Senedd Ewrop o Gymru. Mae hynny'n rhoi digon o le ichi gael mwy o Aelodau o'r Senedd. Felly, nid wyf yn credu bod hwnnw'n safbwynt teg i'w arddel. Os caf droi at ddau bwynt Jane Dodds, ar y bleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy, rwy'n cytuno â hi. Credaf ei bod yn iawn, byddai'r bleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy yn well, ond os ydych am wneud hynny, nid wyf yn credu y byddai modd cyflawni hynny erbyn 2026, a bod yn onest. Rwy'n credu mai'r hyn sydd gennym yma yw cyfaddawd. Rwy'n gwybod bod pobl ar y meinciau hyn y siaradais â hwy'n breifat yn cyfaddawdu ar eu credoau. Rwy'n tybio bod llawer draw acw'n cyfaddawdu. Mae'r Ceidwadwyr yn amharod i gyfaddawdu yma, sy'n anffodus. Os ydym am gyflawni hyn erbyn 2026, rhaid inni bleidleisio o blaid yr adroddiad hwn heddiw. Byddai'n well gennyf weld pleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy. Fodd bynnag, nid wyf yn poeni cymaint am fater y ffiniau, oherwydd mae hwnnw eisoes, fel y dywedodd Alun Davies yn ei ymyriad, wedi bod drwy broses comisiwn ffiniau. Fy mhwynt olaf, os yw craffu i gael ei wella, yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom yw i'r gwleidyddion yn y Siambr hon graffu'n iawn ar y Llywodraeth hon. Mae hynny'n golygu dod i mewn i'r Siambr, nid gydag araith a ysgrifennwyd gan gynghorydd 24 awr ynghynt, ond dod i mewn yma a siarad am y ddadl. Ond mae hefyd yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol inni gael cymdeithas ddinesig, cylch cyhoeddus, sy'n herio'r Llywodraeth hefyd, ac mae arnom angen cefnogaeth ar gyfer hynny. [ Torri ar draws.] Ddirprwy Lywydd, a gaf fi dderbyn yr ymyriad?