techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: Good morning to you all, and welcome to this meeting of the Senedd Finance Committee. In accordance with Standing Order 34.19, I've determined that the public are excluded from the committee's meeting in order to protect public health. In accordance with Standing Order 34.21, notice of this decision was included in the agenda for this meeting. This meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptation relating to conducting proceedings remotely, all other Standing Order requirements for committees remain in place. Could I ask, at the outset, whether Members have any interests to declare? No. Thank you very much. Could I also note for the record that if, for any reason, I lose connection, the committee has previously agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.22 that Siân Gwenllian will temporarily chair while I try to rejoin?
Welsh: Bore da ichi i gyd, a chroeso i gyfarfod Pwyllgor Cyllid Senedd Cymru. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 34.19, dwi wedi penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o gyfarfod y pwyllgor er mwyn diogelu iechyd y cyhoedd. Yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 34.21, cafodd rhybudd o'r penderfyniad hwn ei nodi yn yr agenda ar gyfer y cyfarfod. Mae'r cyfarfod, wrth gwrs, yn cael ei ddarlledu'n fyw ar Senedd.tv, a bydd Cofnod o'r Trafodion yn cael ei gyhoeddi yn ôl yr arfer. Ac ar wahân i'r addasiad gweithdrefnol sy'n ymwneud â chynnal trafodion o bell, mae holl ofynion eraill y Rheolau Sefydlog ar gyfer y pwyllgor yma yn parhau. Gaf i ofyn, i gychwyn, a oes gan unrhyw Aelodau fuddiannau i'w datgan? Nac oes. Diolch yn fawr. Gaf i hefyd nodi, er gwybodaeth, os byddaf i'n colli cysylltiad am unrhyw reswm â'r cyfarfod, fod y pwyllgor wedi cytuno'n flaenorol yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.22 mai Siân Gwenllian fydd yn cadeirio dros dro wrth i mi geisio ailymuno â'r pwyllgor?
English: There are two papers to note in the second item on the agenda. The first is the letter from the Minister for Education responding to the committee's report on the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill. The second paper is a letter from the Minister for Finance on the Non-Domestic Rating (Multiplier) (Wales) Order 2021. Are Members happy to note those papers? Okay. Thank you very much.
Welsh: Mae yna ddau bapur i'w nodi yn yr ail eitem ar yr agenda. Yn gyntaf, llythyr gan y Gweinidog Addysg yn ymateb i adroddiad y pwyllgor ar y Bil Cwricwlwm ac Asesu (Cymru). Yr ail bapur yw llythyr gan y Gweinidog Cyllid ynglŷn â Gorchymyn Ardrethu Annomestig (Lluosydd) (Cymru) 2021. Ydy Aelodau'n hapus i nodi'r rheini? Iawn. Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi.
English: We move on, therefore, to the next item, which is to continue with our scrutiny of the Welsh Government's draft budget for 2021-22. Joining us for this evidence session for the next hour are Steffan Evans, who is a policy and research officer with the Bevan Foundation, and Gemma Schwendel, who is a senior analyst with the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. A warm welcome to the both of you. We have an hour, so we'll go straight into questions. I'll start by asking you whether the draft budget of the Welsh Government will deliver actions that will help to address concerns around poverty and inequality in Wales. Maybe you could also say what kind of actions you would expect the budget to include, and which actions are there, but you think could go further. Who wants to start? Gemma, we'll start with you.
Welsh: Ymlaen â ni, felly, at yr eitem nesaf, sef i barhau gyda'n gwaith ni o graffu ar gyllideb ddrafft Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer 2021-22. Yn ymuno â ni ar gyfer y sesiwn dystiolaeth yma am yr awr nesaf mae Steffan Evans, sy'n swyddog polisi ac ymchwil gyda Sefydliad Bevan, a Gemma Schwendel, sy'n uwch-ddadansoddwr gyda Sefydliad Joseph Rowntree. Croeso mawr i'r ddau ohonoch chi. Mae yna awr gennym ni, felly fe awn ni'n syth i mewn i gwestiynau. Fe wnaf i gychwyn drwy, yn syml iawn, ofyn i chi a fydd cyllideb ddrafft Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyflawni camau gweithredu sy'n help i fynd i'r afael â phryderon tlodi ac anghydraddoldeb yng Nghymru. Efallai y gallwch chi ddweud hefyd pa fath o gamau fyddech chi'n disgwyl i'r gyllideb eu cynnwys, a pha rai, efallai, sydd yna ond rydych chi'n teimlo y gallen nhw fod yn mynd tipyn ymhellach. Pwy sydd eisiau mynd yn gyntaf ar hwn? Gemma, fe wnawn ni gychwyn efo chi.
English: I see that Gemma wants to come in, but I am aware that individual Members want to pursue some of those specific issues, so we may have time to pick up on those as we proceed. But I just want to ask very briefly, before moving on to Rhianon - . One of the aims of the Welsh Government in the budget improvement plan is to engage and collaborate better with stakeholders in this process; how much engagement has there been with you, for example, in this process? Do you feel that some of the things that you've been calling for are being seen clearly in this budget?
Welsh: Dwi'n gweld bod Gemma eisiau dod i mewn, ond dwi'n ymwybodol bod Aelodau unigol eisiau mynd ar ôl rhai o'r pethau penodol yma, so efallai y cawn ni gyfle i bigo i fyny ar hynny wrth inni fynd yn ein blaenau. Roeddwn i jest eisiau holi yn fyr iawn hefyd, cyn symud ymlaen at Rhianon - . Un o nodau Llywodraeth Cymru yn y cynllun gwella'r gyllideb yw ymgysylltu a chydweithredu yn well gyda rhanddeiliaid yn y broses yma; faint o ymgysylltu sydd wedi bod gyda chi, er enghraifft, yn y broses yma? Ydych chi'n teimlo bod rhai o'r pethau ŷch chi wedi bod yn galw amdanyn nhw yn cael eu gweld yn glir yn y gyllideb?
English: I'll start on that, perhaps. I can only speak from our experience in the Bevan Foundation. This has been a very strange year, because we've been speaking consistently with the Welsh Government and local authorities, which is a positive thing, as we go through the different stages of the pandemic and think about the things that we need to do. There have been consistent communications with different departments in the Welsh Government. I think there are positive things in the budget that show that there has been that engagement in terms of providing money for free school meals, instead of vouchers or hampers, in most local authorities. That's a good example of where the Welsh Government has listened to the evidence. So, there are positive examples, but of course you won't be surprised to hear that we would like to see more being done.
Welsh: Fe af fi yn gyntaf ar hwnna, efallai. Rwyf i ond yn gallu siarad o'n profiad ni, yn amlwg, yn Sefydliad Bevan. Mae eleni wedi bod yn flwyddyn ryfedd, mewn ffordd, ble rŷn ni'n teimlo ein bod ni wedi bod yn siarad yn gyson gyda Llywodraeth Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol, sy'n beth positif, wrth ein bod ni'n symud trwy wahanol stages o'r pandemig a meddwl am yr hyn sydd angen ei wneud. Mae yna gysylltiadau wedi bod yn gyson rhwng gwahanol adrannau o fewn Llywodraeth Cymru. Dwi'n credu bod yna bethau positif yn y gyllideb, sy'n dangos bod yna beth gwrando wedi bod o ran darparu arian yn lle cinio ysgol am ddim, yn lle'r v ouchers neu'r hampers, yn y rhan fwyaf o'r awdurdodau lleol. Mae hwnna'n enghraifft o le mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwrando ar y dystiolaeth. So, mae yna enghreifftiau positif, ond wrth gwrs fyddech chi ddim yn synnu imi ddweud byddem ni wrth gwrs yn dwli gweld rhagor yn cael ei wneud.
English: Thank you, Chair. Perhaps exploring some of these details in more detail. Do you believe, in the area of education, that the right balance has been struck in terms of the draft budget between education and skills for school-age children and adult education, given that the emphasis is on adult education in the draft budget in terms of new spending?
Welsh: Diolch, Gadeirydd. Jest efallai mynd tipyn bach yn fwy manwl yn rhai o'r meysydd yma rydych chi wedi trafod yn barod. A ydych chi'n credu, yn y maes addysg, fod y cydbwysedd cywir yn cael ei daro yn y gyllideb ddrafft rhwng addysg a sgiliau i blant oed ysgol ac addysg oedolion, o feddwl bod y pwyslais ar addysg oedolion yn y gyllideb ddrafft o ran gwariant newydd?
English: Certainly, I think that further education has had a shortage of funding for a period now, and I think that it is positive that there is more emphasis on that. I think that cuts over the years have meant that we need to go further there, perhaps. So, looking at the education maintenance allowance, for example, the support that young people receive to continue in FE, it's £30 per week - it's been £30 a week since 2004-05 - which, in real terms, would be £45 a week now. So, that's one example of the cuts that have been made to the support of young children wanting to stay in education. And I would argue, in terms of the current employment situation, it's important that there is investment in post-16 education so that young people stay in education, because, in the FE sector, the number of children living in poverty is far greater than in our universities. But we need to consider what financial support we give young people to continue in education, because it's great to invest in new colleges, new schools and new staff, but if young people can't afford to go to these places and have to work instead, then the investment is not going to have the same impact as if you could give people support to take advantage of these educational opportunities.
Welsh: Yn sicr, dwi'n credu bod addysg bellach wedi cael prinder arian am gyfnod nawr, a dwi'n credu bod e'n bositif bod yna fwy o bwyslais ar hwnna. Dwi'n credu bod y toriadau sydd wedi bod dros y blynyddoedd yn meddwl bod angen hyd yn oed mynd yn bellach fanna, byddwn i'n dadlau. So, yn edrych ar yr education maintenance allowance, er enghraifft, y cymorth mae pobl ifanc yn ei gael i barhau mewn addysg bellach, mae fe'n £30 yr wythnos - mae wedi bod yn £30 yr wythnos ers 2004-05 - sydd, mewn termau real, byddai fe'n £45 yr wythnos nawr. So, mae hwnna'n un enghraifft fanna o'r toriadau mawr sydd wedi bod i'r cymorth i bobl ifanc i allu aros mewn addysg. A buaswn i'n dadlau, o ran y sefyllfa waith ar y foment, mae'n bwysig bod yna fuddsoddiad yn yr addysg sydd ar gael i bobl ifanc wedi 16 i aros mewn addysg, achos mewn addysg bellach, mae cyfran y plant sy'n byw mewn tlodi lot yn uwch na sydd yn ein prifysgolion ni. Ond hefyd, mae yna angen ystyried pa gymorth ariannol rŷn ni'n ei roi i bobl ifanc i barhau mewn addysg, achos mae'n grêt i fuddsoddi mewn colegau newydd, ysgolion newydd, staff newydd, ond os nad ydy'r bobl ifanc yn gallu fforddio mynd i'r llefydd yma ac yn gorfod mynd i'r gwaith, wedyn dydy'r buddsoddiad ddim yn mynd i gael yr un effaith a beth fyddai'n gallu ei gael os ydyn ni'n gallu rhoi cymorth i bobl aros a chymryd mantais o'r cyfleoedd yma.
English: No, not to the extent that I'd like to see. And that's one of the things that we raised in terms of the budget that remains to be spent this year. We could create a crisis pot for post-16 students - a lot of them have to learn from home, and public transport has reduced significantly. So, for those who have courses where you still have to attend the estate personally, the cost of going to college can be a problem. So, if they can't catch a bus because there isn't one, they then have to take a taxi. So, that's an example of how we could use that pot of funding left to be spent this year: to support children to carry on with their education. Because if they miss out at that age, that's going to have a long-term impact, not just on young people but also on the economy more broadly.
Welsh: Na, dim i'r hyn y byddem ni'n licio gweld. Ac mae hwnna'n un o'r pethau wnaethon ni godi hefyd o ran y gyllideb sydd ar ôl i'w gwario eleni. Fe allen ni greu pot argyfwng i fyfyrwyr ôl-16 - mae lot ohonyn nhw wedi gorfod mynd i ddysgu o gartref, ac mae trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus wedi lleihau yn sylweddol - so'r rheini sy'n dal yn gorfod mynd i mewn i gyrsiau lle chi'n gorfod bod yna'n bersonol. So, rŷch chi'n gwybod, mae'r gost o fynd i'r coleg yn gallu bod yn broblem i bobl. So, os nad ydyn nhw'n gallu dal bws achos dyw'r bws ddim yna, mae'n rhaid cael tacsi neu mae'n rhaid gyrru. So, mae hwnna'n enghraifft o rywbeth y gallen ni ddefnyddio'r pot yna o arian sydd ar ôl i'w wario eleni ar ei gyfer, jest i roi cymorth i'r bobl yna i barhau gyda'u haddysg. Achos os ydyn nhw'n colli mas ar yr oedran yna, gallai hwnna gael effaith hirdymor - dim jest ar bobl ifanc, ond ar ein heconomi ni lot yn ehangach hefyd.
English: In terms of the education allowance, how much of an additional pot of funding is needed?
Welsh: O ran y lwfans addysgol, faint o bot o bres ychwanegol sydd angen?
English: Sorry, I don't remember that off the top of my head - [ Interruption.] But I would certainly argue that we need to raise it to £45 per week, just to ensure that it matches what it's been. That's just the start. That's 50 per cent more to start. And then there is a broader discussion, then, around the longer term. And I think that post-18 education - that's still £1,500. It was £1,500 back in 2004-05. So, that's another example where we would like to see more funding being provided into those plans.
Welsh: Dwi ddim yn cofio hwnna off top fy mhen, mae'n ddrwg gyda fi - [ Torri ar draws.] Yn sicr byddwn i'n dadlau bod angen codi fe lan i £45 yr wythnos i wneud yn siŵr ei fod e'n gyfartal â beth oedd e nôl ar y cychwyn. Mae hwnna'n ddechrau, so mae hwnna'n 50 y cant yn fwy, byddwn i'n dweud, i ddechrau. Ac wedyn mae yna drafodaeth ehangach wedyn o ran y cymorth rŷn ni'n ei ddarparu ac, wrth gwrs, y cymorth mae pobl ôl-18 yn ei dderbyn hefyd - mae hwnna'n dal yn £1,500. Roedd hwnna'n £1,500 hefyd yn ôl yn 2004-05. So, mae hwnna'n enghraifft arall lle, yn sicr, byddwn i'n licio gweld lot mwy o arian yn cael ei roi mewn i'r cynlluniau yna.
English: And would you, therefore, withdraw the new spending from the education for adults sector, and then redirect it towards that area?
Welsh: A fuasech chi, felly, yn tynnu'r gwariant newydd o'r sector addysg oedolion ac yn ei gyfeirio fo tuag at yr adran yna?
English: Well, I would argue that, in terms - . Well, this is a broader question, and it comes back to what we've discussed previously about where we prioritise within the budget. So, I wouldn't say that - . Because of the problem we're going to face, I would be concerned about cutting the education for adults budget too, because we know we're going to have to retrain a lot of people. But, in terms of our economy and investing in economic growth, the money we invest in that - . If we don't provide the skills for young people to continue in education - . There's no point creating jobs if the people don't have the skills to do those jobs. So, it's a practical issue. We need to think holistically about the Welsh Government budget, rather than just take money from one pot within the education budget and give it to another.
Welsh: Byddwn i'n dadlau, o ran - . Mae hwn yn gwestiwn ehangach o ran - . Ac eto, mae'n dod yn ôl i beth rŷn ni wedi bod yn ei drafod o ran ble ydyn ni'n blaenoriaethu o fewn y gyllideb. So, fyddwn i ddim yn dweud - . O achos y broblem rydyn ni'n mynd i'w hwynebu, byddwn i'n ofidus o ran torri'r gyllideb addysg i oedolion hefyd achos rŷn ni'n gwybod ein bod ni'n mynd i orfod ailhyfforddi lot o bobl. Ond, o feddwl o ran ein heconomi ni, mae buddsoddi mewn twf yn yr economi, mae'r arian rŷn ni'n buddsoddi yn hwnna - . Os nad ydyn ni'n rhoi sgiliau i'n pobl ifanc ni i barhau mewn addysg, rydyn ni'n - . Does dim pwynt creu swyddi os nad oes gyda ni'r bobl gyda'r sgiliau i wneud y swyddi yna. So, mae'n rhywbeth gweithredol. So, rŷn ni angen meddwl yn holistic am gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru, dim jest symud arian o un pot o'r adran addysg i bot arall o fewn yr adran addysg.
English: And I think we've discussed the hospitality industries, but what about the arts industries? Do you think that there is adequate support - maybe Gemma can answer this - in the budget for jobs in the arts sector that are at risk because of COVID?
Welsh: Diolch. Dwi'n meddwl ein bod ni wedi trafod y diwydiannau lletygarwch, ond beth am y diwydiannau celfyddydau? Ydych chi'n credu bod yna gefnogaeth ddigonol - efallai wnaiff Gemma ateb hwn - yn y gyllideb ar gyfer y swyddi yn y sector yna sydd mewn perygl oherwydd sefyllfa COVID?
English: I accept that, but would you have expected to see the start of that journey - the start of some of those recovery plans - in this current draft budget, in order to develop or build on those in the budgets to come? You're talking about jobs; well, are there other sectors or other themes in terms of recovery that aren't being addressed properly in the draft budget?
Welsh: Ie, derbyn hynny, ond a fyddech chi wedi disgwyl gweld cychwyn ar y daith yna - cychwyn ar rai o'r cynlluniau adfer yma - yn y gyllideb ddrafft bresennol, er mwyn datblygu ar rheini yn y cyllidebau sydd i ddod? Rydych chi'n sôn am swyddi; oes yna sectorau eraill neu themâu eraill o ran recovery sydd ddim yn cael digon o sylw cychwynnol yn y gyllideb ddrafft?
English: We've discussed social housing already, and you don't feel that the spending commitments in the budget go far enough to address the shortfall of suitable properties for social renters. So, what else could be done to help social renters who are in work and who are suffering from poverty in the short term, a sector that's been struck particularly hard? Gemma.
Welsh: Rydyn ni wedi trafod rhywfaint ar dai cymdeithasol, a dydych chi ddim yn teimlo chwaith bod yr ymrwymiadau gwariant yn y gyllideb ddrafft yn mynd yn ddigon pell i fynd i'r afael â'r diffyg eiddo addas sydd ar gael i rentwyr cymdeithasol. Beth arall allai gael ei wneud i helpu rhentwyr cymdeithasol mewn gwaith sy'n dioddef o dlodi yn y tymor byr, sef sector sydd wedi cael ei daro'n arbennig? Gemma.
English: Okay. Well, I'm afraid we've come to the end of our time for that session, so may I thank Gemma and Steffan for your evidence? They've been very important contributions, and we'll be drawing upon that evidence significantly, I'm sure, as we consider the draft budget, so thank you very much to both of you. You will be receiving a copy of the draft transcript to ensure that it's accurate. So, with that, thank you both for your attendance this morning. The committee will now take a break - a technical break - for 10 minutes in order to prepare for the next evidence session, so could I ask Members to be back just before 10:40? Thank you very much.
Welsh: Iawn. Ocê. Wel, dwi'n ofni ein bod ni wedi dod i ddiwedd ein hamser, felly a gaf i ddiolch i Gemma a Steffan am eich tystiolaeth? Maen nhw wedi bod yn gyfraniadau pwysig iawn, ac mi fyddwn ni'n amlwg yn tynnu ar y dystiolaeth yna yn sylweddol, dwi'n siŵr, wrth i ni ystyried y ddrafft gyllideb yma, felly diolch o galon i chi. Mi fyddwch chi yn derbyn copi drafft o'r trawsgrifiad i wneud yn siŵr ei fod e'n gywir. Felly, gyda hynny, diolch i'r ddau ohonoch chi am eich presenoldeb bore yma. Mi fydd y pwyllgor yn awr yn torri. Mi fyddwn ni'n cael toriad technegol am 10 munud er mwyn paratoi ar gyfer y sesiwn dystiolaeth nesaf, felly a gaf i ofyn i Aelodau fod yn ôl fan hyn ychydig funudau cyn 10:40? Diolch yn fawr.
English: Welcome back to the Senedd Finance Committee for the fourth item this morning, which is to continue with our scrutiny of the Welsh Government's draft budget for 2021-22. And joining us for this session is Andrew Campbell, chairman of the Wales Tourism Alliance, and Dr Llŷr ap Gareth who is a senior policy adviser with the Federation of Small Businesses Wales. Welcome to both of you. Ian Price, director of Confederation for British Industry Wales, will be joining us during this session as well, hopefully, so I'll welcome him but he will appear on our screens during the next hour. We do have questions for you, of course, so I'll start maybe just with a general question, asking you whether you feel that the allocations made in the draft budget provide a coherent approach to supporting businesses through the pandemic, and whether they present a viable strategy for economic recovery. So, I don't know who wants to respond first - maybe Llŷr.
Welsh: Croeso nôl i Bwyllgor Cyllid Senedd Cymru ar gyfer pedwaredd eitem y bore yma sef, wrth gwrs, i barhau â chraffu ar gyllideb ddrafft Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer 2021-22. Ac yn ymuno â ni ar gyfer y sesiwn yma mae Andrew Campbell, sy'n gadeirydd Cynghrair Twristiaeth Cymru, a Dr Llŷr ap Gareth sy'n uwch gynghorydd polisi gyda'r Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach yng Nghymru. Croeso i'r ddau ohonoch chi. Mi fydd Ian Price, sy'n gyfarwyddwr gyda Chydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain yng Nghymru, hefyd yn ymuno â ni yn ystod y sesiwn yma, gobeithio, felly fe wnaf i ei groesawu e hefyd ond mi fydd e'n ymddangos ar ein sgriniau ni, gobeithio, yn ystod yr awr nesaf yma. Mae gennym ni, wrth gwrs, gwestiynau ar eich cyfer chi felly fe wnaf i gychwyn efallai jest gyda chwestiwn cyffredinol, i bob pwrpas, yn gofyn a ydych chi'n teimlo bod y dyraniadau sydd wedi cael eu gwneud yn y gyllideb ddrafft yma yn darparu dull cydlynol o gynorthwyo busnesau drwy'r pandemig, ac a ydynt yn hwyluso cyflwyno strategaeth hyfyw ar gyfer adferiad economaidd. So, dwi ddim yn gwybod pwy sydd eisiau ymateb gyntaf - Llŷr, efallai, ie?
English: Llŷr, do you want to take that one on the supply chain?
Welsh: Llŷr, wyt ti eisiau cymryd hwnna ar y supply chain?
English: Thank you very much. Two questions from me about two different areas. The first one relates to the foundational economy. I think that there is £3 million in additional funding that's been allocated to provide a fund to support the work of spreading and increasing good practice rapidly across the foundational economy. Do you feel that this would be the most effective approach to support the foundational economy, or could we use the funding in a different way, in light of the pandemic?
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr. Dau gwestiwn gen i am ddau faes gwahanol. Mae'r un cyntaf yn ymwneud efo'r economi sylfaenol. Dwi'n credu bod yna £3 miliwn ychwanegol wedi'i ddyrannu i ddarparu arian i ategu'r gwaith o ledaenu a chynyddu arferion da yn gyflym ar draws yr economi sylfaenol. Ydych chi'n teimlo mai dyna ydy'r dull fwyaf effeithiol o gynorthwyo'r economi sylfaenol, neu a fedrid defnyddio'r arian mewn ffordd wahanol, o gofio'r pandemig hefyd, felly?