English: It's a pleasure to take part in this debate, although I wish this debate wasn't necessary. Some of us have been Members of this National Assembly for a very long time - since day one, in fact - as was my former Plaid Cymru colleague Owen John Thomas, who was strident in his support for the Allied Steel and Wire pension campaigners all along. In 2003 - that's 16 years ago - Plaid Cymru secured a minority party debate in Tŷ Hywel - remember; we were in the old building then - on the scandal of what had happened to pensions of Allied Steel and Wire. He said, in that debate: 'This is a perfect opportunity for this Labour Government to demonstrate its determination to give workers a fair deal. It was Tory legislation, introduced by Margaret Thatcher, that caused this mess by introducing rules that allow companies to pay off all other creditors before honouring their pension commitments when the company was wound up.' That was a long time ago and we're still here. The Government-backed pension security scheme was a significant achievement at the time, and this legislation was apparently a progressive change by a Labour Government. It has not turned out that way, and, for years, the Blair and Brown Governments did absolutely nothing to correct the injustices faced by those in the financial assistance scheme. In fact, Baroness Ros Altmann left the Labour Party because of this issue in 2007, which she called 'a scandal'. There was only marginal improvement in the financial assistance scheme after the Government at the time was taken to court, after appealing after being found guilty by the ombudsman of misleading pensioners. The previous Labour Government's treatment of pensioners was not a strong mark of credit for them. The campaign for plain English slammed the Government at the time for its duplicity. The Conservatives came to power in 2010 with the expectation that they would correct the problems in the law when the financial assistance scheme was set up. In fact, they did nothing but offer sympathy. They appointed Baroness Altmann to be a pensions Minister, but would not provide restitution to this campaign and others in the financial assistance scheme. The worrying thing is that this current UK Government has not done anything to ensure the long-term health of private pensions. The Allied Steel and Wire campaigners are not demanding extras; they simply want fairness. They want their pre-1997 contributions inflation-proofed. They want those in the financial assistance scheme to be treated with the same level of fairness and protection as those in the pension protection fund, and a removal of payment caps and restitution so that they can have what was taken from them returned. As others have said - . We've had some pretty powerful contributions this afternoon: Bethan, great in opening the debate; Andrew R.T. and Mick, tremendous. There are still powerful emotions out there about this, and, as Bethan said, quoting many down the years, a pension contribution is not a bonus at the end of work, it is a deferred part of someone's salary; to take it is theft. Plaid Cymru's been fighting for justice for these workers and others for years, as we've heard. Those were the comments of Owen John Thomas in 2003. He was still at it in 2007, and I quote - in a debate then, Owen John, still around: 'The UK Government must make changes to the Financial Assistance Scheme so that former ASW workers receive what they would have been entitled to. There is a terrible injustice particularly for those who are under 50 but may have worked up to 35 years at the steelworks, but will miss out on any financial assistance.' That was 12 years ago. That, in itself, was five years after this issue first arose, and Allied Steel and Wire, a huge factory, only a stone's throw from here - . What can we do about it? Diolch yn fawr.
Welsh: Mae'n bleser cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon, er y byddai'n well gennyf pe na bai ei hangen. Mae rhai ohonom wedi bod yn Aelodau o'r Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn ers amser hir iawn - ers y diwrnod cyntaf, mewn gwirionedd - fel roedd fy nghyn gyd-Aelod Plaid Cymru, Owen John Thomas, a oedd yn groch ei gefnogaeth i ymgyrchwyr pensiwn Allied Steel and Wire ar hyd yr amser. Yn 2003 - sef 16 mlynedd yn ôl - sicrhaodd Plaid Cymru ddadl plaid leiafrifol yn Nhŷ Hywel - roeddem yn yr hen adeilad ar y pryd, cofiwch - ar sgandal yr hyn a oedd wedi digwydd i bensiynau Allied Steel and Wire. Yn y ddadl honno, dywedodd Owen John Thomas: Mae hwn yn gyfle perffaith i'r Llywodraeth Lafur hon ddangos ei phenderfyniad i roi chwarae teg i weithwyr. Deddfwriaeth Dorïaidd, a gyflwynwyd gan Margaret Thatcher, a achosodd y llanastr hwn drwy gyflwyno rheolau sy'n caniatáu i gwmnïau dalu eu holl gredydwyr eraill cyn anrhydeddu eu hymrwymiadau pensiwn wrth i gwmni gael ei ddirwyn i ben. Roedd hynny amser maith yn ôl, ac rydym yn dal yma. Roedd y cynllun diogelu pensiynau a gefnogwyd gan y Llywodraeth yn gyflawniad arwyddocaol ar y pryd, ac roedd y ddeddfwriaeth i'w gweld yn newid blaengar gan Lywodraeth Lafur. Nid dyna fel y mae pethau wedi datblygu, ac ers blynyddoedd, ni wnaeth Llywodraethau Blair a Brown ddim byd o gwbl i unioni unrhyw anghyfiawnder a wynebai'r rhai o fewn y cynllun cymorth ariannol. Yn wir, gadawodd y Farwnes Ros Altmann y Blaid Lafur oherwydd y mater hwn yn 2007, mater a alwai'n 'sgandal'. Gwelliant ymylol a welwyd yn y cynllun cymorth ariannol ar ôl i'r Llywodraeth ar y pryd orfod mynd i'r llys, wedi iddi apelio ar ôl ei chael yn euog gan yr ombwdsmon o gamarwain pensiynwyr. Nid oedd y modd yr oedd y Llywodraeth Lafur flaenorol wedi trin pensiynwyr yn ennyn llawer o glod. Daeth y Llywodraeth ar y pryd o dan lach y Campaign for Plain English am fod yn ddauwynebog. Daeth y Ceidwadwyr i rym yn 2010 gyda'r disgwyliad y byddent yn cywiro'r problemau hyn yn y gyfraith pan gâi'r cynllun cymorth ariannol ei sefydlu. Ni wnaethant ddim heblaw cynnig cydymdeimlad mewn gwirionedd. Fe wnaethant benodi'r Farwnes Altmann i fod yn Weinidog pensiynau, ond nid oeddent yn barod i ddarparu iawndal i'r ymgyrchwyr hyn ac i eraill yn y cynllun cymorth ariannol. Y peth sy'n peri pryder yw nad yw'r Llywodraeth bresennol yn y DU wedi gwneud unrhyw beth i sicrhau iechyd hirdymor pensiynau preifat. Nid yw ymgyrchwyr Allied Steel and Wire yn mynnu pethau ychwanegol; maent eisiau tegwch. Maent eisiau i'w cyfraniadau cyn 1997 gael eu hamddiffyn rhag chwyddiant. Maent eisiau i'r rhai yn y cynllun cymorth ariannol gael eu trin gyda'r un lefel o degwch a diogelwch â'r rhai sydd yn y gronfa diogelu pensiynau, a dileu cap ar daliadau ac iawndal fel y gallant gael yr hyn a gymerwyd oddi arnynt. Fel y dywedodd eraill - . Rydym wedi cael cyfraniadau go rymus y prynhawn yma: Bethan, roeddech yn wych wrth agor y ddadl; Andrew R.T. a Mick, aruthrol. Ceir emosiynau pwerus ynglŷn â hyn o hyd, ac fel y dywedodd Bethan, gan ddyfynnu llawer o bobl dros y blynyddoedd, nid bonws ar ddiwedd gwaith yw cyfraniad pensiwn, ond rhan ohiriedig o gyflog rhywun; mae ei gymryd yn lladrad. Bu Plaid Cymru'n ymladd dros gyfiawnder i'r gweithwyr hyn ac eraill ers blynyddoedd, fel y clywsom. Sylwadau Owen John Thomas yn 2003 oedd y rheini. Roedd yn dal wrthi yn 2007, a dyfynnaf - mewn dadl gan Owen John a oedd yn dal yma ar y pryd: Rhaid i Lywodraeth y DU wneud newidiadau i'r Cynllun Cymorth Ariannol fel bod cyn-weithwyr ASW yn cael yr hyn y byddai hawl ganddynt ei gael. Mae yma anghyfiawnder ofnadwy yn arbennig i'r rhai sydd o dan 50 oed ond sydd efallai wedi gweithio hyd at 35 mlynedd yn y gwaith dur, ond sy'n mynd i fethu cael unrhyw gymorth ariannol. Roedd hynny 12 mlynedd yn ôl. Roedd hynny ynddo'i hun bum mlynedd wedi i'r mater hwn godi ei ben am y tro cyntaf, ac Allied Steel and Wire, ffatri anferth sydd ond dafliad carreg oddi yma - . Beth allwn ni ei wneud am y peth? Diolch yn fawr.