English: I really don't think it's helpful to have Janet Finch-Saunders saying, 'Find deprivation, find Labour'. I think many people who live in less well-off communities will find that insulting. People make choices about how to vote and we are here to represent them. I do think, though, that, when it comes to the challenges that Michael Gove now faces, as I say, I think there is a point of opportunity. I don't shed any tears at the end of Robert Jenrick's political career; there have been choices he's made that I don't think are defensible in the way that some areas have been advantaged. And actually, it is in the interests of Conservative Members to make the case for that as well. I don't think regional representatives or constituency representatives could stand by and say they're happy to see Bridgend, Caerphilly, Flintshire, Gwynedd and other areas and the Vale of Glamorgan excluded in favour of much better-off parts of the rest of the UK, including in England. Now, there are Conservatives representing some of those areas too, so this isn't just about Labour versus Tory; it's actually about what's the right thing to do for people, and that's the conversation I want to have with Michael Gove, and it will directly affect all the areas I've mentioned, but, more than that, the whole country. And actually, as someone who believes the union could and should have a future, I think it would help us to make the case for a reformed and a better union where Wales is a key and integral part of it. Not to do so, I'm afraid, makes that case harder still.
Welsh: Nid wyf i'n credu ei bod o unrhyw fudd clywed Janet Finch-Saunders yn dweud, 'Os gwelwch chi amddifadedd, fe welwch chi Lafur'. Rwy'n credu y bydd llawer o bobl sy'n byw mewn cymunedau llai cefnog yn gweld hynny'n sarhaus. Mae pobl yn gwneud dewisiadau ynghylch sut i bleidleisio ac rydym ni yma i'w cynrychioli nhw. Rwyf i yn credu, serch hynny, pan fo'n fater o'r heriau y mae Michael Gove bellach yn eu hwynebu, fel y dywedais i, rwy'n credu bod yma gyfle nawr. Ni chollais i ddeigryn ar ddiwedd gyrfa wleidyddol Robert Jenrick; mae wedi gwneud dewisiadau nad wyf i'n credu y gellir eu hamddiffyn, yn y ffordd y mae rhai ardaloedd wedi cael mantais. Ac mewn gwirionedd, mae'n fuddiol i Aelodau Ceidwadol gyflwyno dadleuon o blaid hynny hefyd. Nid wyf i'n credu y gallai cynrychiolwyr rhanbarthol na chynrychiolwyr etholaethau sefyll o'r neilltu a dweud eu bod nhw'n hapus i weld Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, Caerffili, sir y Fflint, Gwynedd ac ardaloedd eraill a Bro Morgannwg yn cael eu heithrio er budd rhannau llawer gwell eu byd yng ngweddill y DU, gan gynnwys yn Lloegr. Nawr, mae Ceidwadwyr yn cynrychioli rhai o'r ardaloedd hynny hefyd, felly nid yw hyn yn ymwneud â Llafur yn erbyn y Torïaid yn unig; mae'n ymwneud â beth yw'r peth iawn i'w wneud ar gyfer pobl, a dyna'r sgwrs yr wyf i'n dymuno ei chael gyda Michael Gove, a bydd yn effeithio'n uniongyrchol ar yr holl feysydd yr wyf i wedi sôn amdanyn nhw, ond, yn fwy na hynny, y wlad gyfan. Ac mewn gwirionedd, fel rhywun sy'n credu y gallai ac y dylai'r undeb gael dyfodol, rwy'n credu y byddai'n ein helpu i gyflwyno dadleuon o blaid undeb diwygiedig a gwell lle mae Cymru'n rhan allweddol ac annatod ohono. Mae peidio â gwneud hynny, mae arnaf ofn, yn gwneud yr achos hwnnw'n galetach byth.