English: I listened with great interest to Laura Jones say, 'If families can afford to feed their children, they should have the freedom to do so as they wish.' I think not. We can't actually stand by if a family is not feeding their child a nutritious diet willingly and knowingly and with the ability to do something about it. That is simply not possible. And the consequences, as we have seen, of poor diet are what is clogging up our hospitals, because of the long-term consequences of poor diet. And as Luke Fletcher, indeed, pointed out, it has very serious short-term and long-term consequences for the ability of the child to learn as well as the obesity epidemic and diabetes and all the other things that go with that. I agree that the midday meal that Mike Hedges talked about really should be the main meal of the day for a child. It is really not great for them to be having that meal in the evening; they need to be having it in the middle of the day when they're running around, using up and needing to burn up a lot of their calories. But politics is the art of the possible and, at the moment, there is a £50 million difference in the cost calculations of the Bevan Foundation and the calculations of the Welsh Government on what it would cost to introduce free school meals for all children on universal credit. I'm well aware that the accounting errors may occur, but £50 million is not far short of the fine of £70 million imposed on Southern Water for its criminal discharge of raw sewage into the rivers and seas of Kent and Sussex. It would be great, wouldn't it, if the malpractice of irresponsible companies that poison children could be used to feed hungry children in our schools, but that is not the way things work. If Plaid is really serious about the issue and is a responsible party, you have to make clear what you're going to cut to find the money for funding universal free school meals, and I need to know what the answer is to that in your summing up. I appreciate that Plaid is a recent convert to the important issue of free school meals, but to continue to demand that we throw money at the problem without displaying much acknowledgement of the complexity of this issue is not good enough. It is not a simple good-versus-bad answer. We know from amendment 1 that the Welsh Government is exploring all the options, starting with tying down the cost implications, and that is just a start. I need to know how many pupils are currently receiving a nutritious school lunch at all. In my constituency, it's not that many, simply because it is very difficult to deliver lunch in the dining room of a school without completely busting the bubble arrangements. We know, instead, that most families are being asked to send pupils to school with a packed lunch - how nutritious are those packed lunches? I appreciate that it's difficult to visit schools but I bet that many of them consist of a packet of crisps and a chocolate bar because I've seen it on countless occasions. The 33,000 rise in the take-up of free school meals during the pandemic is to be welcomed. We need to know a great deal more, however, about whether this has been inspired by the injection of cash into family bank accounts, which, of course, is the most dignified way of supporting poor families, rather than grab bags being provided and which continue to be provided by some local authorities. In the past, how much effort have local schools put into ensuring that families were signing up to the service that their children were entitled to? How much is that due to stigma and how much is it children actually refusing to eat the school lunches that are being served because they prefer to sit in the lunch break with their friends who are having packed lunches or they want to go and play games? I have experience, definitely, that people on free school meals are simply eating chips because that's all they will eat - not a good use of public funds. What about these free school breakfasts? We hope that the change in the regulations on bubbling will, indeed, allow them to be reinstated in September, but this is not a service for hungry children as much as a service for working parents. We know that from the school census data back in January 2020 - a million miles ago. We can all deplore the proposed £20 cut in universal credit, but if we peg our free school meal eligibility to the actions of the UK Government who we have no control over, what could that be setting us up for in terms of control of our own budget? If they knew that all our children were getting a free school meal, would Rishi Sunak then reduce the amount of money that was coming to families on universal credit? This is a hugely complicated issue, and we have to work really hard, collectively, to get this one right.
Welsh: Gwrandewais gyda diddordeb mawr ar Laura Jones yn dweud, 'Os gall teuluoedd fforddio bwydo eu plant, dylent gael rhyddid i wneud hynny fel y dymunant.' Nid wyf yn credu hynny. Ni allwn sefyll naill ochr os nad yw teulu'n bwydo deiet maethlon i'w plentyn o'u gwirfodd ac yn fwriadol a chyda'r gallu i wneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch. Nid yw hynny'n bosibl. A chanlyniadau deiet gwael, fel y gwelsom, yw'r hyn sy'n tagu ein hysbytai, oherwydd canlyniadau hirdymor deiet gwael. Ac fel y nododd Luke Fletcher yn wir, mae iddo ganlyniadau tymor byr a hirdymor difrifol iawn i allu'r plentyn i ddysgu yn ogystal â'r epidemig gordewdra a diabetes a'r holl bethau eraill sy'n mynd gyda hynny. Cytunaf mai'r pryd canol dydd y soniodd Mike Hedges amdano a ddylai fod yn brif bryd y dydd i blentyn. Nid yw'n wych iddynt gael y pryd hwnnw gyda'r nos; mae angen iddynt ei gael ganol dydd pan fyddant yn rhedeg o gwmpas, yn defnyddio ac yn llosgi llawer o'u calorïau. Ond celfyddyd yr hyn sy'n bosibl yw gwleidyddiaeth, ac ar hyn o bryd, mae gwahaniaeth o £50 miliwn rhwng cyfrifiadau Sefydliad Bevan o gostau a chyfrifiadau Llywodraeth Cymru o'r hyn y byddai'n ei gostio i gyflwyno prydau ysgol am ddim i bob plentyn ar gredyd cynhwysol. Rwy'n ymwybodol iawn y gall gwallau cyfrifyddu ddigwydd, ond nid yw £50 miliwn yn bell o'r ddirwy o £70 miliwn a roddwyd i Southern Water am y drosedd o ryddhau carthffosiaeth amrwd i afonydd a moroedd Caint a Sussex. Byddai'n wych, oni fyddai, pe gellid defnyddio camweddau cwmnïau anghyfrifol sy'n gwenwyno plant i fwydo plant llwglyd yn ein hysgolion, ond nid dyna'r ffordd y mae pethau'n gweithio. Os yw Plaid Cymru o ddifrif am y mater ac yn blaid gyfrifol, rhaid ichi egluro beth y bwriadwch ei dorri i ddod o hyd i'r arian ar gyfer ariannu prydau ysgol am ddim i bawb, ac mae angen imi wybod beth yw'r ateb i hynny wrth ichi grynhoi. Rwy'n sylweddoli mai yn ddiweddar y daeth Plaid Cymru i ddadlau'r achos dros fater pwysig prydau ysgol am ddim, ond nid yw parhau i fynnu ein bod yn taflu arian at y broblem heb ddangos llawer o gydnabyddiaeth o gymhlethdod y mater yn ddigon da. Nid yw'n ateb syml o'r da yn erbyn y drwg. Gwyddom o welliant 1 fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn archwilio'r holl opsiynau, gan ddechrau drwy nodi'r goblygiadau o ran costau, a dim ond dechrau yw hynny. Mae angen imi wybod faint o ddisgyblion sy'n cael cinio ysgol maethlon ar hyn o bryd. Yn fy etholaeth i, nid yw'n gymaint â hynny, yn syml am ei bod yn anodd iawn darparu cinio yn ystafell fwyta ysgol heb chwalu'r trefniadau swigod yn llwyr. Yn lle hynny, fe wyddom fod gofyn i'r rhan fwyaf o deuluoedd anfon pecyn bwyd gyda'r disgyblion i'r ysgol - pa mor faethlon yw'r pecynnau bwyd hynny? Rwy'n derbyn ei bod yn anodd ymweld ag ysgolion ond rwy'n sicr fod llawer ohonynt yn cynnwys pecyn o greision a bar o siocled oherwydd rwyf wedi'i weld niferoedd o weithiau. Mae'r cynnydd o 33,000 yn y nifer sy'n manteisio ar brydau ysgol am ddim yn ystod y pandemig i'w groesawu. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni wybod llawer mwy i weld a yw hyn wedi'i ysbrydoli gan chwistrelliad o arian parod i gyfrifon banc teuluol, sef y ffordd sy'n cynnig fwyaf o urddas, wrth gwrs, wrth gefnogi teuluoedd tlawd yn hytrach na'r cydau bwyd sy'n parhau i gael eu darparu gan rai awdurdodau lleol. Yn y gorffennol, faint o ymdrech y mae ysgolion lleol wedi'i wneud i sicrhau bod teuluoedd yn manteisio ar y gwasanaeth roedd gan eu plant hawl iddo? Faint o hynny sy'n deillio o stigma a faint y mae'n ymwneud â phlant yn gwrthod bwyta'r ciniawau ysgol sy'n cael eu gweini oherwydd bod yn well ganddynt eistedd dros yr egwyl ginio gyda'u ffrindiau sy'n cael pecynnau bwyd, neu am eu bod eisiau mynd i chwarae? Mae gennyf brofiad, yn bendant, o bobl sy'n cael prydau ysgol am ddim yn bwyta sglodion, yn syml am mai dyna'r cyfan y byddant yn ei fwyta - nid yw hynny'n ddefnydd da o arian cyhoeddus. Beth am y brecwastau ysgol am ddim? Gobeithiwn y bydd y newid yn y rheoliadau ar swigod yn caniatáu eu hadfer ym mis Medi, ond mae'n fwy o wasanaeth i rieni sy'n gweithio nag o wasanaeth i blant llwglyd. Gwyddom hynny o ddata'r cyfrifiad ysgolion yn ôl ym mis Ionawr 2020 - filiwn o filltiroedd yn ôl. Gallwn i gyd resynu at y toriad arfaethedig o £20 i'r credyd cynhwysol, ond os clymwn ein cymhwysedd i gael prydau ysgol am ddim wrth weithredoedd Llywodraeth y DU nad oes gennym reolaeth drostynt, beth y gallai hynny ei olygu i'n rheolaeth ar ein cyllideb ein hunain? Pe byddent yn gwybod bod ein plant i gyd yn cael prydau ysgol am ddim, a fyddai Rishi Sunak wedyn yn lleihau'r swm o arian a fyddai'n dod i deuluoedd ar gredyd cynhwysol? Mae hwn yn fater hynod o gymhleth, ac mae'n rhaid inni weithio'n eithriadol o galed gyda'n gilydd i'w gael yn iawn.