English: Yes, and I'm not disagreeing with that remark that you made, Jenny, and I'm not saying the difficulties are insuperable. But certainly I believe the legislation will add to the burden of prison staff, who probably have enough to do as it is, and we did hear some evidence to that effect when we had the inquiry. There is also the issue of what happens if we have a situation similar to 2017, when we had Welsh local elections rapidly followed by a general election. If that situation were to be replicated in future, you would have some prisoners who were eligible to vote in the locals. Then a few weeks later we might have a general election, which they might be more interested in than they were in the locals, and guess what? They don't have a vote. Somebody is then going to have to explain to a group of prisoners why they don't have a vote that they thought they had - good luck with that one. Now, there is also a logistical problem of setting a cut-off point as to which prisoners can vote, so we have the compromise, which the report proposes, of prisoners having a vote who are serving sentences of four years or less. This is better, I think, than giving the vote to all prisoners, which I think would send out a message to society that the wider public would find difficult to comprehend. However, we were told by some people in authority in the prison service during our visits that it would actually be far more difficult to operate this extension of prisoner voting if there were a cut-off point, because again, it creates different categories of prisoner, some of whom can vote, others who cannot. We would have prisoners on the same wing, many convicted for very similar offences, but having being given marginally different sentences, some of whom can vote, and others who cannot. In a closed environment like a prison, this could lead to problems. In fact, far from increasing the morale of prisoners, giving the vote to some of them, but not all of them, could actually lead to arguments and a decrease in the general morale of a prison wing during an election time. In my view, the most practical solution would not be to extend the prisoner vote at all, but to accept the situation as it currently stands. Hardly anyone in the wider electorate supports prisoner voting at all. Most believe that prisoners have forfeited their right to vote when they forfeited a much more important right, which was the right to their own liberty. Prisoners have already been adjudged to be incapable of conforming to civil society. This was the decision taken when they were sentenced to imprisonment. It makes no sense at all in the eyes of most ordinary members of the public to give them the right to vote. There are some caveats in terms of prisoners on remand who haven't been convicted of any offence, and in terms of those on temporary licences, but these are all covered by the existing legislation. So, why the need to extend prisoner voting at all? This report is the prelude to another bad piece of legislation in the making, I am afraid, and another that shows how out of touch the Welsh Assembly is with the general public of Wales. Thank you.
Welsh: Ydy, ac nid wyf yn anghytuno â'r sylw a wnaethoch, Jenny, ac nid wyf yn dweud na ellir goresgyn yr anawsterau. Ond yn sicr, credaf y bydd y ddeddfwriaeth yn ychwanegu at faich staff carchardai, sydd â digon i'w wneud fel y mae, mae'n debyg, a chlywsom rywfaint o dystiolaeth i'r perwyl hwnnw pan gawsom yr ymchwiliad. Hefyd, beth sy'n digwydd os oes gennym sefyllfa debyg i 2017, pan oedd etholiadau lleol Cymreig yn cael eu dilyn yn gyflym gan etholiad cyffredinol. Pe bai'r sefyllfa honno'n digwydd eto yn y dyfodol, byddai gennych rai carcharorion yn gymwys i bleidleisio yn yr etholiadau leol. Yna, ychydig wythnosau'n ddiweddarach, efallai y cawn etholiad cyffredinol, y gallai fod ganddynt fwy o ddiddordeb ynddo nag yn yr etholiadau lleol, ac a wyddoch chi beth? Ni fydd ganddynt bleidlais. Bydd yn rhaid i rywun esbonio i grŵp o garcharorion pam nad oes ganddynt bleidlais, a hwythau wedi credu bod un ganddynt - pob lwc gyda hynny. Nawr, ceir problem logistaidd hefyd mewn perthynas â phennu terfyn o ran pa garcharorion sy'n cael pleidleisio, felly mae gennym gyfaddawd, a gynigir gan yr adroddiad, o roi pleidlais i garcharorion sy'n bwrw dedfryd o bedair blynedd neu lai. Mae hyn yn well yn fy marn i na rhoi'r bleidlais i bob carcharor, a fyddai, rwy'n credu, yn anfon neges i'r gymdeithas y byddai'r cyhoedd ehangach yn ei chael hi'n anodd ei deall. Fodd bynnag, dywedwyd wrthym gan rai a oedd mewn awdurdod yn y gwasanaeth carchardai yn ystod ein hymweliadau y byddai'n llawer anos gweithredu'r hawl i garcharorion bleidleisio pe bai terfyn yn bodoli, oherwydd unwaith eto, mae'n creu categorïau gwahanol o garcharorion, gyda rhai ohonynt yn cael pleidleisio, ac eraill na chânt wneud hynny. Byddai gennym garcharorion ar yr un adain, nifer ohonynt wedi'u cael yn euog am droseddau tebyg iawn, ond wedi cael dedfrydau ychydig yn wahanol, a bydd rhai ohonynt yn cael pleidleisio, ac eraill na chânt wneud hynny. Mewn amgylchedd caeedig fel carchar, gallai hyn arwain at broblemau. Yn wir, yn hytrach na chynyddu morâl carcharorion, byddai rhoi'r bleidlais i rai ohonynt, ond nid i bob un ohonynt, yn gallu arwain at ddadlau a lleihau morâl cyffredinol adain mewn carchar yn ystod cyfnod etholiad. Yn fy marn i, yr ateb mwyaf ymarferol fyddai peidio ag ymestyn yr hawl i bleidleisio i garcharorion o gwbl, ond derbyn y sefyllfa fel y mae ar hyn o bryd. Nid oes fawr neb yn yr etholaeth ehangach yn cefnogi rhoi'r bleidlais i garcharorion o gwbl. Mae'r rhan fwyaf yn credu bod carcharorion wedi fforffedu eu hawl i bleidleisio pan oeddent yn fforffedu hawl llawer pwysicach, sef yr hawl i'w rhyddid eu hunain. Mae carcharorion eisoes wedi'u dyfarnu'n analluog i gydymffurfio â'r gymdeithas sifil. Dyma'r penderfyniad a wnaed pan gawsant eu dedfrydu i garchar. Nid yw'n gwneud synnwyr o gwbl yng ngolwg y rhan fwyaf o'r cyhoedd yn gyffredinol i roi'r hawl iddynt bleidleisio. Ceir rhai cafeatau o ran carcharorion ar remánd nad ydynt wedi'u cael yn euog o unrhyw drosedd, ac o ran y rhai sydd ar drwyddedau dros dro, ond caiff y rhain i gyd eu cynnwys yn y ddeddfwriaeth bresennol. Felly, pam yr angen i ymestyn yr hawl i bleidleisio i garcharorion? Mae'r adroddiad hwn yn rhagarweiniad i ddeddfwriaeth wael arall, mae arnaf ofn, ac un arall sy'n dangos cyn lleied o gysylltiad sydd rhwng Cynulliad Cymru a'r cyhoedd yn gyffredinol yng Nghymru. Diolch.