English: Minister, thank you for your statement this afternoon. There's one certainty in life in this place since I joined in 2007: that there will be various TB statements as we progress through the whole term. Indeed, the Presiding Officer led the charge for four years in her time as Cabinet Secretary in, I think, the third Assembly. I don't make those comments lightly, because this is a devastating condition in the livestock industry and to the rural economy as well. It does play, as you've highlighted in your statement this afternoon, a big economic factor in the livestock industry, but it has a huge emotional and psychological impact on farming families and, indeed, the livestock sector that are affected by this terrible disease. One thing, regrettably, that has come over, time and time again in the 12 years that I've been an Assembly Member, is that we do not seem to have got a handle on this. The numbers that you're reporting today show a 12 per cent increase in the number of cattle killed, regrettably, due to bovine TB. A 12 per cent increase - that is a significant number by any stretch of the imagination after many goes at trying to get on top of this terrible condition. I do think that's far more reflective than maybe the number of holdings that you identified, which you seemed to take some comfort from - that there are a fewer number of holdings reporting bovine TB - but the fact of the matter is the livestock industry is contracting and there is less livestock being kept. The raw data shows that there's an increased number of cattle as a whole being taken and that clearly shows that, regrettably, the policy does not seem to be working here in Wales. It does need a twin-tracked approach, which you've heard from these benches time and time again, to make sure that we have a healthy wildlife reservoir and, indeed, a healthy farmed livestock industry. I'd be grateful if you could highlight how many badgers have been removed that, once they've been proved infected with TB, as you touched on that in your statement - . So, we've got the cattle numbers, can you tell us how many badgers, once identified as having that infection, have been removed over the last 12 months, the reporting period you have given us? Also, in many of the statements that have come before the Plenary, we seem to return to the compensation aspect that obviously does need to deliver value for money for the taxpayer but also a fair compensation to the livestock producer, who very often can see a whole lifetime, if not several generations, be taken away from that farm because of a bovine TB breakdown. I'd be grateful to understand what your thoughts are on this particular aspect of your statement. The finance Minister, when she was Minister, did try and bring forward proposals to change the compensation proposals and there were modest changes then. The previous First Minister, when he was environment Minister, tried to bring forward a cap on payments, some 10 or, I think, 12 years ago. My late and much missed colleague Brynle Williams was the agricultural spokesman at the time and I believe it was his vote that made that stop in its tracks. So, I do regret that you're trying to link this to Brexit. We do go back over 10, 12, 15 years and various Ministers have - [ Interruption.] I hear from a sedentary position that the Minister didn't say that. The statement does say that, because of the loss of European money due to Brexit - it does actually say that, it does. I do regret trying to link this to the Brexit argument. There have been successive attacks on the compensation model by several Ministers over a longer period. If it is your intention to bring forward a consultation, can you please tell us what that consultation will be about, when it will be coming and what you have in mind to put into that consultation? Also, I'd be grateful to understand what measures you would consider the agricultural industry needing to do over and above what's being done at the moment. I come - actually, I should have declared this at the start of the proceedings, Presiding Officer, if you'll allow me: I do declare an interest, as a livestock producer who does have cattle on his farm. What measures do you have in mind over and above the biosecurity measures that are in place at the moment - because as an industry, pre-movement and post-movement testing has come in, yearly testing has come in, where many people might have been in four-yearly parishes now are in yearly tests? And yet the agriculture industry has taken these measures on board and yet they're not seeing a more holistic approach of dealing with the wildlife reservoir that is out there and is part of the issue that is part of the contamination problem that is affecting the livestock sector. So, can you enlighten us on the points that I've put to you, Minister? I, along with most Members, if not all Members, want to see progress in this area, but unless we move forward on all fronts, then we really will be talking about this in another 12 years' time and we won't be in that position of being within touching distance of the Minister's own ambition of seeing the eradication of this terrible disease in the livestock sector.
Welsh: Gweinidog, diolch ichi am eich datganiad y prynhawn yma. Mae un sicrwydd mewn bywyd yn y lle hwn ers i mi ymuno yn 2007: y bydd amryw o ddatganiadau TB wrth i ni fwrw ymlaen drwy'r tymor cyfan. Yn wir, y Llywydd a arweiniodd y gwaith hwn am bedair blynedd pan oedd hi'n Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn y trydydd Cynulliad, rwy'n credu. Nid wyf yn gwneud y sylwadau hynny yn ysgafn, oherwydd mae hwn yn gyflwr trychinebus yn y diwydiant da byw ac i'r economi wledig hefyd. Mae'n ffactor economaidd mawr yn y diwydiant da byw, fel y nodwyd gennych chi yn eich datganiad y prynhawn yma, ond caiff effaith emosiynol a seicolegol enfawr ar deuluoedd ffermio ac, yn wir, ar y sector da byw y mae'r clefyd ofnadwy hwn yn effeithio arnynt. Un peth, yn anffodus, sydd wedi codi, dro ar ôl tro yn ystod y 12 mlynedd y bûm i yn Aelod Cynulliad, yw nad yw'n ymddangos ein bod wedi gallu mynd i'r afael â hyn. Mae'r niferoedd rydych chi'n adrodd amdanynt heddiw yn dangos cynnydd o 12 y cant yn nifer y gwartheg sy'n cael eu lladd, yn anffodus, oherwydd TB buchol. Cynnydd o 12 y cant - mae hynny'n nifer sylweddol yn sicr ar ôl sawl cynnig i geisio rheoli'r cyflwr ofnadwy hwn. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n adlewyrchiad gwell nag efallai nifer y daliadau a nodwyd gennych chi, yr oeddech chi'n ymddangos i gael rhywfaint o gysur ohonyn nhw - bod llai o ddaliadau yn cofnodi TB buchol - ond y gwir amdani yw bod y diwydiant da byw yn crebachu a llai o dda byw yn cael eu cadw. Mae'r data crai yn dangos bod nifer gynyddol o wartheg yn cael eu heffeithio arnyn nhw yn gyffredinol ac mae hynny'n dangos yn glir nad yw'r polisi, yn anffodus, yn gweithio yma yng Nghymru. Mae angen mynd i'r afael â hyn o ddau gyfeiriad, fel yr ydych chi wedi clywed o'r meinciau hyn dro ar ôl tro, i sicrhau bod gennym ni gronfa bywyd gwyllt iach ac, yn wir, diwydiant da byw fferm iach. Byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech chi nodi faint o foch daear sydd wedi'u dileu, ar ôl profi eu bod wedi eu heintio â TB, gan eich bod wedi cyfeirio at hynny yn eich datganiad - . Felly, rydym ni'n gwybod beth yw niferoedd y gwartheg, a allwch chi ddweud wrthym ni faint o foch daear, ar ôl canfod eu bod wedi'u heintio, a gafwyd wared arnyn nhw yn ystod y 12 mis diwethaf, y cyfnod adrodd yr ydych chi wedi'i roi i ni? Hefyd, mewn llawer o'r datganiadau a ddaeth gerbron y Cyfarfod Llawn, ymddengys ein bod yn dychwelyd at yr agwedd iawndal sydd yn amlwg angen sicrhau gwerth am arian i'r trethdalwr ond hefyd iawndal teg i gynhyrchwyr da byw, sydd yn aml iawn yn gallu gweld oes gyfan, os nad sawl cenhedlaeth, yn cael eu hamddifadu o'r fferm honno oherwydd achos o TB buchol. Byddwn yn falch o ddeall beth yw eich barn chi ar yr agwedd arbennig hon ar eich datganiad. Aeth y Gweinidog cyllid, pan mai hi oedd y Gweinidog, ati i geisio cyflwyno cynigion i newid y cynigion iawndal a chafwyd newidiadau cymedrol bryd hynny. Ceisiodd y Prif Weinidog blaenorol, pan oedd yntau yn Weinidog yr Amgylchedd, gyflwyno uchafswm ar daliadau, rhyw 10 neu, rwy'n credu, 12 mlynedd yn ôl. Fy niweddar gyd-Aelod, y mae colled fawr ar ei ôl, Brynle Williams oedd y llefarydd amaethyddol ar y pryd ac rwy'n credu mai ei bleidlais ef a roddodd terfyn ar hynny. Felly, mae'n ofid gen i eich bod yn ceisio cysylltu hyn â Brexit. Rydym ni'n mynd yn ôl dros 10, 12, 15 mlynedd ac mae amrywiol Weinidogion wedi - [ Torri ar draws.] Clywaf gan rywun ar ei eistedd na wnaeth y Gweinidog ddweud hynny. Mae'r datganiad yn dweud hynny, oherwydd colli cyllid Ewropeaidd oherwydd Brexit - mae'n dweud hynny mewn gwirionedd, ydy. Rwyf yn gresynu at geisio cysylltu hyn â'r ddadl Brexit. Cafwyd ymosodiadau olynol ar y model iawndal gan sawl Gweinidog dros gyfnod hwy. Os ydych chi'n bwriadu cyflwyno ymgynghoriad, a wnewch chi ddweud wrthym ni beth fydd diben yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw, pryd y bydd yn dod a beth ydych chi'n bwriadu ei gynnwys yn yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw? Hefyd, byddwn yn ddiolchgar cael deall pa fesurau y byddech chi'n eu hystyried bod angen i'r diwydiant amaethyddol eu gweithredu yn ychwanegol at yr hyn sy'n cael ei wneud ar hyn o bryd. Dof i - a dweud y gwir, dylwn i fod wedi datgan hyn ar ddechrau'r trafodion, Llywydd, os caniatewch imi: rwy'n datgan buddiant, fel cynhyrchydd da byw sydd â gwartheg ar ei fferm. Pa fesurau sydd gennych chi mewn golwg yn ychwanegol at y mesurau bioddiogelwch sydd ar waith ar hyn o bryd - oherwydd fel diwydiant, mae profion cyn symud ac ar ôl symud wedi cael eu cyflwyno, mae profion blynyddol wedi cael eu cyflwyno, lle mae llawer o bobl a allai fod wedi bod mewn plwyfi pedair blynedd bellach mewn profion blynyddol? Ac eto, mae'r diwydiant amaethyddol wedi derbyn y mesurau hyn ond serch hynny nid ydynt yn gweld dull mwy cyfannol o ymdrin â'r bywyd gwyllt sydd wedi ei heintio ac sy'n rhan o'r mater sy'n rhan o'r broblem heintio sy'n effeithio ar y sector da byw. Felly, a wnewch chi ein goleuo ni ynghylch y pwyntiau yr wyf wedi'u cyflwyno ichi, Gweinidog? Rwyf i, ynghyd â'r rhan fwyaf o Aelodau, os nad pob aelod, yn dymuno gweld cynnydd yn y maes hwn, ond oni fyddwn ni'n gwneud cynnydd ym mhob maes, yna byddwn ni, mewn gwirionedd, yn siarad am hyn mewn 12 mlynedd ac ni fyddwn ni yn y sefyllfa honno o fod o fewn trwch blewyn o gyflawni uchelgais y Gweinidog ei hun o weld y clefyd dychrynllyd hwn yn cael ei ddileu yn y sector da byw.