English: I have the pleasure to follow the Minister and to commend her on this statement, and indeed the approach that the Welsh Government has adopted in putting innovation right at the heart not only of public procurement but of public policy. We've heard, I think, so many times, the public sector, probably rightly, berated for adopting an approach that is often low cost over wider considerations of value and opportunity, and certainly one that is risk-averse. This programme is the opposite of that, and as she rightly said, it's originally modelled on the American small business innovation research project, which I understand is about to be culled by President Trump. So, probably another reason to believe that we're on the right lines in championing the approach that she has outlined. It would be interesting to know, in that spirit of broad support, a little bit more about what the intentions are for the expansion of this project, both in terms of hard cash and in terms of the scale of the programme, but also, to what extent it could be more mainstreamed. We heard the Minister refer to a series of calls. Could we actually institutionalise it, in a more fundamental sense, so that it's part and parcel, not as a fringe element within our public procurement practice, but right at the heart of procurement? We understand from the Royal Academy of Engineering's review of the English initiative that there is some issue about how you measure impact. And, actually, I really commend her as well for bringing some life to some of those innovation stories. We often talk in public policy in broad generalities. It is great to drill down into the detail and hear that these are tangible impacts that are going to make a real difference in terms of the quality of life of the people of Wales. But with every programme, it is important that we have some metrics. And while some of them will be qualitative, and by their very nature, some of them will have to be long term, I think it's always good to have some numbers as well. And, so, I'd be interested to see - . I know that currently we don't have, possibly, a detailed evaluation framework. In expanding the programme, I would urge her to look at the kind of innovation impact metrics in terms of return on innovation investment et cetera that could be put in place. And finally, in the spirit of institutionalising this approach, which I think is very exciting, the opportunity is there for Wales to become a test bed nation where, actually, the world does come to our door, because we're very good at identifying innovative solutions to the same public service and public policy challenges that the world is facing. Could we have, in that spirit, the creation of a national innovation body that will build on the excellent foundations that have been laid in this programme, but actually can drive forward on that basis and create a reputation for Wales as an innovation nation?
Welsh: Pleser i mi yw cael dilyn y Gweinidog a'i chanmol am y datganiad hwn, ac yn wir am y dull y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ei fabwysiadu wrth roi arloesedd nid yn unig wrth galon caffael cyhoeddus ond wrth galon polisi cyhoeddus hefyd. Rydym wedi clywed lawer gwaith, mi dybiaf, y sector cyhoeddus, gyda chyfiawnhad mae'n debyg, yn cael ei phardduo am fabwysiadu dull sy'n aml yn isel ei gost o ran ystyriaethau ehangach gwerth a chyfle, ac yn sicr yn un sydd yn osgoi risg. Mae'r rhaglen hon yn gwbl groes i hynny, ac fel yr oedd hi'n iawn i'w ddweud, cafodd ei modelu yn wreiddiol ar brosiect ymchwil arloesi busnes bach yn America, yr wyf yn deall ei fod ar fin cael ei ddiddymu gan Arlywydd Trump. Felly, mae hynny yn rheswm arall dros gredu ein bod fwy na thebyg ar y trywydd cywir o ran hyrwyddo'r dull o weithredu a amlinellwyd ganddi hi. Byddai'n ddiddorol cael gwybod, yn yr ysbryd hwn o gefnogaeth eang, ychydig mwy am yr hyn y bwriedir ei wneud i ehangu'r prosiect hwn, a hynny o ran arian parod ac o ran maint y rhaglen. Ond hefyd hoffwn gael gwybod i ba raddau y gallai fod yn fwy yn y brif ffrwd. Clywsom y Gweinidog yn cyfeirio at gyfres o alwadau. A allem ei wneud yn gyfundrefnol i bob pwrpas, mewn ystyr mwy sylfaenol, fel ei fod yn rhan annatod, nid yn elfen ymylol o'n harferion caffael cyhoeddus, ond wrth galon caffael? Rydym yn deall o adolygiad Academi Frenhinol Peirianneg o'r fenter yn Lloegr bod rhywfaint o broblem ynglŷn â'r dull o fesur yr effeithiau. Ac, mewn gwirionedd, rwy'n ei chymeradwyo hi'n fawr hefyd am fywiogi rhai o'r straeon hyn am arloesi. Rydym yn aml yn siarad yn fras iawn am bolisi cyhoeddus. Mae'n beth gwych i ni gael y manylion yn eu llawnder a chlywed am yr effeithiau gwirioneddol sydd o wir bwys o ran gwella ansawdd bywyd pobl Cymru. Ond fel yn achos pob rhaglen, mae'n bwysig ein bod yn cael rhywfaint o fetrigau. Ac er mai ansoddol fydd rhai ohonyn nhw, ac oherwydd eu natur, bydd yn rhaid i rai ohonyn nhw fod yn hirdymor, rwy'n credu mai da o beth bob amser yw cael rhai rhifau hefyd. Ac felly, byddai gennyf ddiddordeb gweld - . Rwy'n gwybod nad oes gennym ar hyn o bryd, o bosib, fframwaith gwerthuso manwl. Wrth ehangu'r rhaglen, byddwn yn ei hannog i edrych ar y math o fetrigau effaith arloesedd o ran elw o fuddsoddiad arloesedd ac ati y gellid eu rhoi ar waith. Ac yn olaf, yn ysbryd gwneud y dull hwn yn un cyfundrefnol, a chredaf fod hynny'n beth cyffrous iawn, gwelwn gyfle yma i wneud cenedl y Cymry yn fainc arbrofi ac y bydd y byd, mewn gwirionedd, yn cyrchu at ei drws, am ein bod ni'n dda iawn am nodi datrysiadau arloesol i'r union heriau mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a pholisi cyhoeddus y mae'r byd yn eu hwynebu. A gawn ni, yn yr ysbryd hwnnw, weld creu corff arloesi cenedlaethol a fydd yn adeiladu ar y sylfeini ardderchog sydd wedi eu gosod yn y rhaglen hon, ond a fydd yn gallu mynd rhagddo yn wir ar y sail honno a rhoi enw da i Gymru fel cenedl sy'n arloesi?