English: The main problem is that our licence notes clearly how many security staff we need according to the number of people who can come into the building. I think that the guidance for the night-time economy venues, as they're called, is slightly more stringent than the guidance in place for arts centres. So, an example for you: our gigs in Clwb hold 250 people upstairs; according to the licensing rules we'd need four security staff, so that's a cost of £250 in addition, without mentioning paying for the band and so on. If you had a gig in St David's Hall for almost 1,000 people, or over 1,000 people, they only need a couple of security people to look after the people entering the building and to make sure that they exit safely. So, there are four people on there. There's a cost there of, again, £250, but they have an audience of 1,000 people there and we have an audience of 250. And I just - . I think it's because - . So, the argument that we get is, 'Well, you have to have these security people there because you're selling alcohol'. Well, again, the other arts centres sell alcohol. So, I just feel that we're seen as - or, rather, that we need a split in the definition, so that the events that are held until 11 o'clock are perhaps seen as artistic or cultural, if they're comedy, live music and so on, but after 11 p.m. - because we are open after 11 p.m.; until 4 a.m. on weekends - they're part of the night-time economy sector. That split would make it much easier in terms of the cost of putting on events. Also, give us the ability to undertake the risk assessment in terms of how many security staff we need - because there are some gigs where, yes, we do need three security staff, because they're quite a lively audience. But we can have 250 there for a folk music event and we'd still have to have all of those security staff, and the audience for that might not be quite as lively. [ Laughter.] What makes it worse is, for a comedy event, we don't have to have any security staff at all, so - . We're still selling alcohol to that audience, but the rules are different again for that. So, there is an element of risk always associated with holding an event, but we're very experienced in knowing what kind of audience tends to come to different events, and we respond to that risk. It should be a matter for us to work that out for live music events, rather than it being a hard-and-fast rule in our licence that costs tens of thousands of pounds for us every year. An additional point is that - . The licensing rules have made it very difficult over the past years to hold events for those under 18 years of age. So, we used to have 14-plus gigs. So, once you'd turned 14, you could come to a gig without your parent or guardian. We've now had to change that to 16, and we can only hold those events during the week, rather than at the weekends, because of the feedback that we've had from the licensing department. Again, the argument that's put forward is, 'You're selling alcohol and people under 18 are there - you need to manage that'. But, again, if you go to any arts centre that puts on gigs, there is alcohol available there too. So, either there's no consistency or grass-roots music venues aren't seen in the same way as other arts venues. I think that that's one of the major issues that I would look to get out of this inquiry: how places like Clwb are being defined by the authorities, by funding organisations and so on. Because we are responsible for providing a venue to develop talent for the future, in terms of live music, we're responsible for giving a community space for people to come to see live music, and we're not for profit. So, we are a community benefit group, so we do this for the community in Cardiff, but many of the regulations surrounding us are the same regulations as for places nightclubs like Pryzm and so on. I just feel that it's hard enough for us as it is, so please make it a little bit easier for us, so that we can hold more events, and support more artists, and provide more opportunities for people to come and see them play.
Welsh: Y broblem bennaf ydy yn ein trwydded ni, sy'n nodi'n glir faint o bobl ddiogelwch dŷn ni angen eu cael yn unol â nifer y bobl sy'n dod mewn i'r adeilad. Dwi'n meddwl bod y canllawiau ar gyfer night-time economy venues, fel buasen nhw'n eu galw nhw, yn dipyn mwy llym na beth buasai yn ei le ar gyfer canolfannau celfyddydol. So, er enghraifft, mae ein gigs ni yn Clwb yn dal 250 o bobl i fyny grisiau; yn unol â'r rheolau trwyddedu buasai angen pedwar o bobl diogelwch arnom ni, so mae hynny'n £250 yn ychwanegol at y gig, cyn sôn am dalu bandiau a dim byd arall. Pe buasech chi'n cael gig yn Neuadd Dewi Sant i bron i 1,000 o bobl, neu dros 1,000 o bobl, maen nhw ond angen cwpwl o bobl diogelwch i edrych ar ôl pobl yn dod mewn ac i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n dod allan. So, mae yna bedwar ymlaen am y noson yn y fanna. Wel, mae yna gost eto - £250 - iddyn nhw, ond mae gyda nhw gynulleidfa o 1,000 o bobl ac mae gennym ni gynulleidfa o chwarter hynny. A dwi jest - . Dwi'n meddwl ei fod e achos - . Y ddadl dŷn ni'n ei chael ydy, 'Wel, mae'n rhaid ichi gael y bobl diogelwch yma achos bod chi'n gwerthu alcohol'. Wel, eto, mae'r canolfannau celfyddydol eraill yn gwerthu alcohol. Dwi jest yn teimlo ein bod ni'n cael ein gweld - fod angen split yn y diffiniad, mewn ffordd, fel bod y digwyddiadau sy'n cael eu cynnal tan 11 p.m. efallai'n cael eu gweld fel rhai celfyddydol, os maen nhw'n gerddoriaeth byw, comedi neu beth bynnag, ac, ar ôl 11 p.m. - achos mi ydym ni ar agor ar ôl 11 p.m.; tan 4 o'r gloch y bore ar y penwythnosau - bod y rhai yna wedyn yn dod o fewn o dan sector y night-time economy. Buasai'n ei wneud lot yn haws o ran y costau o roi digwyddiad ymlaen. Hefyd, rhowch y gallu i ni wneud y risk assessment o ran faint o ddiogelwch - achos mae yna rhai gigs dŷn ni'n eu rhoi ymlaen, ie, mae angen tri o bobl diogelwch, achos mae'r gynulleidfa'n eithaf bywiog, ond gallwn ni gael 250 o bobl yna ar gyfer gig gwerin a buasen ni'n dal yn gorfod rhoi'r un nifer o bobl diogelwch ymlaen, a dŷn nhw ddim cweit mor fywiog efallai fel cynulleidfa. [ Chwerthin.] Beth sy'n ei wneud o'n waeth ydy, mewn gig comedi, does yna ddim rheidrwydd arnom ni i gael pobl diogelwch ymlaen o gwbl, so - . Dŷn ni dal yn gwerthu alcohol i'r gynulleidfa yna, ond mae'r rheolau'n wahanol. Dwi'n meddwl bod yna elfen o risg wastad yn mynd i fod o roi digwyddiad ymlaen. Dŷn ni'n brofiadol iawn yn gwybod pa fath o gynulleidfa sy'n dod i ddigwyddiadau gwahanol, a dŷn ni'n ymateb i'r risg yna. Dylai fod yn fater i ni weithio hynny allan ar gyfer digwyddiadau cerddoriaeth fyw, yn hytrach efallai na bod rheol gadarn o ran trwyddedu sydd yn costio degau o filoedd o bunnau i ni bob blwyddyn. Pwynt ychwanegol ydy mae hefyd - . Mae'r rheolau trwyddedu wedi'i wneud o'n anodd iawn dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf inni gynnal digwyddiadau i bobl dan 18. Mi oeddem ni'n arfer gwneud gigs 14-plus, so unwaith roeddet ti'n troi'n 14 mi allet ti ddod i gig ar ben dy hun heb dy riant. Dŷn ni nawr wedi gorfod newid i 16 a dŷn ni ond yn gallu eu gwneud nhw yng nghanol yr wythnos, dim ar y penwythnos, oherwydd yr adborth dŷn ni wedi'i gael gan yr adran drwyddedu. Eto, y ddadl sy'n cael ei rhoi ydy: 'Wel, dŷch chi'n gwerthu alcohol ac mae yna bobl dan 18 yna - dŷch chi angen rheoli hynny'. Ond, eto, dos di i unrhyw ganolfan gelfyddydol sy'n rhoi gigs ymlaen, ac mae yna alcohol ar werth yn y fanna. So, dwi jest ddim yn gweld - naill ai nid oes dim cysondeb, neu dyw grass-roots music venues ddim yn cael eu gweld yn yr un modd â llefydd celfyddydol eraill. Dwi'n meddwl bod hynny'n un o'r pethau mwyaf buaswn i'n edrych i'w gael allan o'r ymgynghoriad yma: sut mae llefydd fath â Clwb yn cael eu diffinio gan yr awdurdodau, gan y bobl sy'n gyfrifol am nawdd neu beth bynnag. Achos dŷn ni yn gyfrifol am roi lle i ddatblygu talentau'r dyfodol o ran cerddoriaeth fyw, dŷn ni yn gyfrifol am roi lle cymunedol i bobl ddod i weld cerddoriaeth fyw, a dŷn ni nid er elw. Dŷn ni'n gwmni buddiant cymunedol, so dŷn ni'n gwneud hyn dros y gymuned yng Nghaerdydd, ond eto mae lot o'r rheoliadau sydd yn ein hamgylchynu ni yn rhai sydd yn eu lle ar gyfer clybiau nos fel Pryzm neu beth bynnag. Dwi jest yn teimlo, wel, mae'n ddigon anodd inni fel ag y mae - beth am ei wneud o bach yn haws, er mwyn inni allu rhoi mwy o ddigwyddiadau ymlaen, a chefnogi mwy o artistiaid, a rhoi mwy o gyfleoedd i bobl ddod i'w gweld nhw'n chwarae.