English: I actually hadn't said that, but I was just about to. [ Laughter.] I do not believe - . I recognise what you're saying, Joyce, and I recognise, of course, why you're saying it, but I do not believe that regional representation is real representation, I'll be absolutely clear about that. I do not believe - [ Interruption.] I don't believe it. I'm afraid I don't believe it. And do you know what? I think most people in Wales agree with me. It might not be a popular or a comfortable thing to say in this Chamber, but I think most people in Wales agree with me. So, let me say this: I believe that we do need a system of electoral reform that provides for equality of membership of this place. I believe that we need a system of electoral reform that does hard-wire proportionality into the system. One of the foundations of this form of devolved Government was that of proportional representation. I do not believe that we should, in any way, move away from that founding principle of this Welsh democracy. I believe that proportional representation has to be hard-wired into our constitutional settlement, and that is why I support the single transferable vote as a means of representing everybody in Wales equally, across this Chamber and across this country. And we need to do that in an intelligent way. I recognise the power of the argument that's been made by my colleagues in the Labour Party over this matter, and I recognise the importance of an electoral mandate. I think that is an important matter and it can't be simply dismissed. I'm afraid the wishes of the people of this country can't be dismissed as an inconvenience. I feel the frustration of those who have seen and watched commissions come and go, reports written and published, debates taking place and then put away because there isn't the political courage to take those decisions and to make those changes. I believe that four Wales Acts in 20 years is not a triumph of parliamentary deliberation or democracy. It is time for a stable settlement in this country. It is time for a settlement that reflects the needs of the people of Wales. I have argued time and time again - in this place and, as a Minister, I argued it from the position of the Welsh Government - that we need to see devolved Government in Wales that is fit for purpose. I've argued for the devolution of policing and criminal justice, I've argued for the devolution of those powers that enable this place to function properly and to deliver for the people of Wales. But I will also argue that this place needs to change as well, that this place has to function, in a way that Adam Price and others have, in fact, argued. But what I will say to Plaid Cymru this afternoon, and I'll finish on this point: withdraw this motion this afternoon. Do not divide this place on this matter. Look for unity. Look for consensus. Look for unity of purpose. The people of Wales will not -
Welsh: Nid oeddwn wedi dweud hynny mewn gwirionedd, ond roeddwn ar fin gwneud hynny. [ Chwerthin.] Nid wyf yn credu - . Rwy'n cydnabod yr hyn rydych yn ei ddweud, Joyce, ac rwy'n cydnabod, wrth gwrs, pam rydych chi'n ei ddweud, ond nid wyf yn credu bod cynrychiolaeth ranbarthol yn gynrychiolaeth go iawn, fe fyddaf yn gwbl glir ynglŷn â hynny. Nid wyf yn credu - [ T orri ar draws.] Nid wyf yn ei gredu. Mae gennyf ofn nad wyf yn ei gredu. Ac a wyddoch chi beth? Rwy'n credu bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl yng Nghymru yn cytuno â mi. Efallai nad yw'n beth poblogaidd na chyfforddus i'w ddweud yn y Siambr hon, ond rwy'n credu bod y rhan fwyaf o bobl yng Nghymru yn cytuno â mi. Felly, gadewch imi ddweud hyn: credaf fod arnom angen system o ddiwygio etholiadol sy'n darparu ar gyfer aelodaeth gyfartal yn y lle hwn. Credaf fod arnom angen system o ddiwygio etholiadol sy'n gwneud cyfranoldeb yn rhan annatod o'r system. Un o sylfeini'r math hwn o Lywodraeth ddatganoledig oedd cynrychiolaeth gyfrannol. Ni chredaf y dylem symud oddi wrth yr egwyddor sylfaenol honno mewn unrhyw ffordd yn y ddemocratiaeth Gymreig hon. Credaf fod yn rhaid i gynrychiolaeth gyfrannol fod yn rhan annatod o'n setliad cyfansoddiadol, a dyna pam rwy'n cefnogi'r bleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy fel modd o gynrychioli pawb yng Nghymru'n gyfartal, ar draws y Siambr hon ac ar draws y wlad hon. Ac mae angen i ni wneud hynny mewn ffordd ddeallus. Rwy'n cydnabod grym y ddadl a wnaethpwyd gan fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Blaid Lafur ar y mater hwn, ac rwy'n cydnabod pwysigrwydd mandad etholiadol. Credaf fod hwnnw'n fater pwysig ac ni ellir ei ddiystyru. Rwy'n ofni na ellir diystyru dymuniadau pobl y wlad hon fel anghyfleustra. Teimlaf rwystredigaeth y rhai sydd wedi gweld a gwylio comisiynau'n mynd a dod, adroddiadau'n cael eu hysgrifennu a'u cyhoeddi, dadleuon yn cael eu cynnal cyn eu rhoi heibio am nad oes dewrder gwleidyddol i wneud y penderfyniadau hynny ac i wneud y newidiadau. Credaf nad yw pedair Deddf Cymru mewn 20 mlynedd yn fuddugoliaeth i drafodaeth seneddol neu ddemocratiaeth. Mae'n bryd cael setliad sefydlog yn y wlad hon. Mae'n bryd cael setliad sy'n adlewyrchu anghenion pobl Cymru. Rwyf wedi dadlau dro ar ôl tro - yn y lle hwn ac fel Gweinidog, roeddwn yn ei ddadlau o safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru - fod angen inni weld Llywodraeth ddatganoledig yng Nghymru sy'n addas i'r diben. Rwyf wedi dadlau dros ddatganoli'r heddlu a chyfiawnder troseddol, rwyf wedi dadlau dros ddatganoli'r pwerau sy'n galluogi'r lle hwn i weithredu'n briodol ac i gyflawni dros bobl Cymru. Ond fe ddadleuaf hefyd fod angen i'r lle hwn newid yn ogystal, fod yn rhaid i'r lle hwn weithredu, mewn ffordd y mae Adam Price ac eraill wedi'i ddadlau mewn gwirionedd. Ond yr hyn a ddywedaf wrth Blaid Cymru y prynhawn yma, ac rwyf am orffen ar y pwynt hwn: tynnwch y cynnig hwn yn ôl y prynhawn yma. Peidiwch â rhannu'r lle hwn ar y mater dan sylw. Edrychwch am undod. Edrychwch am gonsensws. Edrychwch am undod pwrpas. Ni fydd pobl Cymru -