English: I'm glad that you're able to join us in this debate, Darren, and as I was talking about a mature conversation, Darren demonstrates exactly what I didn't mean. [ Laughter.] So, we've spent money and the Conservatives in this budget round managed something that not even the Welsh Liberal Democrats managed - I've offended Kirsty now - and that was to spend every pound twice and three times. Every debate we had here on the budget, the Conservative response to every challenge facing us wasn't to reform but to spend money. Everything has to have money thrown at it, but we won't reform. And that is a fundamental test of a Conservative character. The Conservatives know what they don't want, but they don't know what they do want. There's a consistency there at least. And that means that we do need to have this debate. I don't have and I don't share the fetish for low taxation for low taxation's sake. I don't share that. I believe that we should have fair and reasonable taxation. Fair and reasonable taxation that allows us to invest in our people and in our country. A taxation system that reflects our values and our ambitions and our visions for Wales. If our ambition is only to persuade people who wish to save tax pounds to move here and pay less tax, what does that say to a child growing up in Blaenau Gwent? What does that say to somebody - we had a debate earlier today on the rights of older people - the country we want you to grow old in - ? [ Interruption.] I can see you - in a moment. Give me chance to finish my sentence. The country we want you to grow old in is only interested in reduced taxation. We're not interested in the services that will sustain you and sustain your family.
Welsh: Rwy'n falch eich bod wedi gallu ymuno â ni yn y ddadl hon, Darren, a chan fy mod yn siarad am sgwrs aeddfed, mae Darren yn dangos yn union yr hyn nad oeddwn yn ei olygu. [ Chwerthin.] Felly, rydym wedi gwario arian a llwyddodd y Ceidwadwyr yn y cylch cyllidebol hwn i wneud rhywbeth na lwyddodd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru hyd yn oed i'w wneud - rwyf wedi digio Kirsty yn awr - sef gwario pob punt ddwywaith a theirgwaith. Ym mhob dadl a gawsom yma ar y gyllideb, ymateb y Ceidwadwyr i bob her sy'n ein hwynebu oedd gwario arian, nid diwygio. Rhaid taflu arian at bopeth, ond ni wnawn ddiwygio. A dyna'r prawf sylfaenol o'r cymeriad Ceidwadol. Mae'r Ceidwadwyr yn gwybod beth nad ydynt ei eisiau, ond nid ydynt yn gwybod beth y maent ei eisiau. Mae yno gysondeb o leiaf. Ac mae hynny'n golygu bod angen inni gael y ddadl hon. Nid wyf yn rhannu'r ffetis am gael treth isel er mwyn cael treth isel yn unig. Nid wyf yn rhannu hynny. Credaf y dylem gael trethiant teg a rhesymol. Trethiant teg a rhesymol sy'n caniatáu i ni fuddsoddi yn ein pobl ac yn ein gwlad. System drethu sy'n adlewyrchu ein gwerthoedd a'n huchelgeisiau a'n gweledigaethau ar gyfer Cymru. Os mai ein hunig uchelgais yw perswadio pobl sy'n dymuno arbed punnoedd treth i symud yma a thalu llai o dreth, beth y mae hynny'n ei ddweud wrth blentyn sy'n tyfu fyny ym Mlaenau Gwent? Beth y mae hynny'n ei ddweud wrth rywun - cawsom ddadl yn gynharach heddiw ar hawliau pobl hŷn - y wlad rydym eisiau i chi dyfu'n hen ynddi - ? [ Torri ar draws.] Gallaf eich gweld - mewn eiliad. Rhowch gyfle i mi orffen fy mrawddeg. Nid oes gan y wlad rydym eisiau i chi dyfu'n hen ynddi ddiddordeb mewn dim heblaw gostwng trethi. Nid oes gennym ddiddordeb yn y gwasanaethau a fydd yn eich cynnal ac yn cynnal eich teulu.