techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: Well, as I say, it's very difficult to know. As I think I said in my evidence, there is an opportunity to do as you choose, which gives teachers the freedom to draw up their own curriculum. There is concern that there have been too many restrictions placed on teachers in the past and that hasn't been effective, because from the little evidence that we have, not everyone is content with the way that history is currently taught. I should say, of course, that not everyone's going to be happy in all our schools all the time. There will always be an element of not liking their teacher and forgetting what they've learnt in the first place. [ Laughter. ] I'm sorry to disappoint you on that point but that's the truth of the matter.
Welsh: Wel, fel rwy'n dweud, mae e'n anodd iawn gwybod. Rwy'n credu bod yna gyfle, fel y dywedais i yn fy nhystiolaeth, i wneud fel rŷch chi'n moyn, sydd yn rhoi rhyddid i athrawon i lunio eu cwricwlwm eu hunain. Mae yna bryder bod gormod o gyfyngu wedi bod yn y gorffennol, ac eto dyw e ddim wedi bod yn effeithiol, achos yn ôl yr hyn o dystiolaeth sydd gyda ni, dyw pawb ddim yn hapus gyda'r ffordd mae hanes yn cael ei addysgu. Dylwn i ddweud, wrth gwrs, dyw pawb byth yn hapus gyda phopeth maen nhw'n ei gael mewn ysgol. Mae'n rhaid i chi dderbyn bod yna elfen o ddim licio'r athro a hefyd anghofio beth maen nhw wedi'i wneud beth bynnag. [ Chwerthin. ] Sori i'ch siomi chi efo hyn ond dyna'r gwir amdani.
English: Or liking the teacher and going on to study history as a result of that.
Welsh: Neu'n hoffi'r athro ac yn mynd ymlaen i astudio hanes oherwydd hynny.
English: Well, was that a sufficient reason for the decision? We won't go down that route now but that's the truth of the matter. There is a personal relationship between a pupil and a teacher and that's part of learning and teaching as well. People's feelings do depend, occasionally, on their emotions and so on and so forth. There are opportunities in terms of the flexibility provided, but there were also opportunities in the old curriculum. There is freedom for teachers to decide what they want their classrooms to study, as long as they look at a Welsh dimension and an international perspective. Now, I think that there's a challenge for teachers to work their way through this new curriculum to make sense of it and to structure courses appropriately so that it will meet all of the needs set out by Donaldson. I truly believe that they will need a great deal of guidance, because what I see in these documents is a situation similar to what we faced in 1987 and 1988 when we were drawing up the first national curriculum. There were hefty documents to get through and you had to try and make sense of those documents and to make one set of requirements consistent with another. So, there's a great deal of work to be done here. I think there are opportunities - of course there are opportunities now. Whether teachers feel sufficiently confident and sufficiently knowledgeable to take all of those opportunities - will all the opportunities that they identify be appropriate? It is so open-ended. One headteacher has told me,
Welsh: Ie, wel, a oedd hynny'n rheswm digonol? Ond dyna fe, fe wnawn ni ddim mynd lawr y trywydd yna. Ond dyna beth yw'r gwir amdani, yntefe? Mae yna berthynas bersonol rhwng athro a disgybl ac mae hynny'n rhan o'r agwedd tuag at y pwnc. Mae atgofion pobl yn cael eu lliwio gan eu teimladau, emosiynau - . Mae yna gyfleon, yn sicr, o ran hyblygrwydd, ond mae yna lawer o gyfle yn yr hen gwricwlwm hefyd. Mae yna ryddid i athrawon ddewis beth maen nhw eisiau astudio yn eu dosbarth, gyda'u bod nhw'n gofalu nawr am ddimensiwn Gymreig a phersbectif rhyngwladol. Rwy'n meddwl ei fod e'n lot o goflaid i athrawon weithio eu ffordd trwy'r cwricwlwm newydd yma a gwneud synnwyr ohono fe a strwythuro cyrsiau fydd yn ateb holl ofynion Donaldson. Rwyf wir yn meddwl y bydd angen llawer o arweiniad. Oherwydd beth rwy'n gweld yn y dogfennau hyn yw sefyllfa debyg iawn i ble roeddem ni yn 1987 a 1988 pan roeddem ni'n llunio'r cwricwlwm cenedlaethol am y tro cyntaf. Roedd yna bentyrrau o ddogfennau trwchus i fynd trwyddyn nhw a thrio gwneud synnwyr ohonyn nhw a chysoni un set o ofynion gyda set arall o ofynion. Mae yna lond trol o waith fan hyn. Rwy'n meddwl bod yna gyfle - wrth gwrs fod yna gyfle. P'un ag yw athrawon yn teimlo'n ddigon hyderus, yn ddigon gwybodus i gymryd pob cyfle - a fydd pob cyfle maen nhw'n ei weld yn addas? Mae e mor benagored. Mae un prifathro wedi dweud wrthyf i,
English: And I've been saying,
Welsh: Ac rwyf wedi dweud,
English: And he chuckles and says,
Welsh: Ac mae e'n chwerthin a dweud,
English: So, I think there are opportunities, there are risks, but the main risk, in my mind, is the complexity of this whole issue and the scale of the requirements placed on teachers now.
Welsh: So, rwy'n meddwl bod yna gyfleon, mae yna beryglon, ond y prif berygl, rwy'n meddwl, yw cymhlethdod yr holl beth a maint y gofynion sydd ar athrawon nawr.
English: Thank you, Chair. As someone who studied O-level history and, indeed, A-level, I do remember when I did the A-level course - the Tudors and the Stuarts - there was a compulsory question on Welsh history at that point. So, if you studied for an A-level, you had to study Welsh history. Would it be something worth considering - and it might help in terms of ensuring that Welsh history is taught in a way that is effective - having questions that are compulsory on GCSE and also A-level papers?
Welsh: Diolch, Gadeirydd. Fel un a astudiodd hanes lefel O a hefyd lefel A, rwy'n cofio pan wnes i lefel A - y Tuduriaid a'r Stiwartiaid - roedd yna gwestiwn gorfodol ar hanes Cymru bryd hynny. Os oeddech chi'n astudio lefel A, roedd rhaid astudio hanes Cymru. A fyddai'n rhywbeth i feddwl amdano petasai - ac efallai byddai hwn yn helpu ynglŷn â sicrhau bod hanes Cymru yn cael ei addysgu mewn ffordd sydd yn effeithiol - cwestiynau gorfodol ar y papurau TGAU a hefyd y papurau lefel A?
English: As I understand it, the requirements of history GCSE have been changed over the past few years, so that there is an element of Welsh history that has been brought in to the curriculum, and I welcome that very much. I don't think that a mandatory question would be a solution because it creates a ghetto for Welsh history, and it doesn't help - to follow up on John's point - in bringing local history, Welsh history and global history all together, and that's the problem. And I welcome the decision to restructure GCSE and to place more emphasis on Welsh history, because it was possible for secondary schoolteachers to avoid teaching any Welsh history at GCSE, as long as there was an element of British history. And the history of Britain ultimately meant the history of England. Very little Irish or Scottish history is studied in England or Wales, and very little Welsh history is studied in Ireland or Scotland. We always turn our sights towards England in terms of developments because that is where the main political power lies within the UK, and that has been the case for very many centuries. So, I welcome the idea of placing greater emphasis on Welsh history and demonstrating in GCSE how Welsh history fits into that bigger picture. I welcome that most warmly because the requirements of GCSE do have a great influence on teachers in secondary schools. But in terms of a mandatory, specific question on an examination paper at GCSE or A-level, I would question the effectiveness of that, ultimately, because it can isolate the topic.
Welsh: Fel rwy'n deall pethau, mae gofynion hanes TGAU nawr wedi cael eu newid dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, fel bod yna elfen o hanes Cymru wedi cael ei gwau mewn i'r maes llafur, ac rwy'n croesawu hynny'n fawr iawn. Nid wyf yn credu bod cael cwestiwn gorfodol yn ateb y peth achos mae'n creu rhyw geto i hanes Cymru, a dyw e ddim yn helpu - i ddilyn y pwynt gwnaeth John - i ddod â hanes lleol, hanes Cymru a hanes ehangach gyda'i gilydd. Dyna'r broblem. Ac wedyn, rwy'n croesawu'r penderfyniad i ailstrwythuro TGAU i roi mwy o bwyslais ar hanes Cymru, achos roedd e'n bosibl i athrawon uwchradd osgoi addysgu unrhyw hanes o Gymru ei hunan yn TGAU, cyd â'u bod nhw'n gwneud elfen o hanes Prydain. Ac roedd hanes Prydain yn golygu, yn y pen draw, hanes Lloegr. Bach iawn o hanes Iwerddon a'r Alban sy'n cael ei astudio yng Nghymru a Lloegr, bach iawn o hanes Cymru sy'n cael ei astudio yn yr Alban neu Iwerddon. Rŷn ni'n troi ein golwg ni wastad at Loegr o ran datblygiadau oherwydd dyna yw'r prif bŵer gwleidyddol yn y Deyrnas Unedig, ac wedi bod ers canrifoedd lawer. Felly, rwy'n croesawu'r syniad o roi mwy o bwyslais ar hanes Cymru a dangos yn TGAU sut mae gwau hanes Cymru mewn i'r patrwm ehangach. Rwy'n croesawu hynny'n fawr iawn achos mae gofynion TGAU yn dylanwadu'n fawr ar athrawon yr ysgolion uwchradd. Ond o ran rhoi cwestiwn gorfodol, penodol, ar bapur arholiad TGAU neu lefel A, byddwn i yn cwestiynu effeithiolrwydd hynny yn y pen draw, achos mae'n gallu ynysu'r pwnc.
English: So, are you saying, therefore, that it would be better to weave Welsh history into broader history, then - and I understand that, of course - but perhaps have a situation where a pupil would be able to gain further credits or marks as part of the assessment, if they were able to show that they did have an understanding of Welsh history and also of British, European and global history?
Welsh: So, byddech chi'n dweud, felly, y byddai'n well i wau hanes Cymru i mewn i hanes ehangach - rwy'n deall hynny, wrth gwrs - ond efallai cael sefyllfa lle byddai disgybl yn cael mwy o gredyd neu fwy o farciau fel rhan o'r asesu o achos eu bod nhw'n gallu dangos bod yna ddealltwriaeth gyda nhw o hanes Cymru a hefyd hanes Prydain, Ewrop a hefyd y byd.
English: Well, that would be most interesting; it would pose some questions. I used to moderate history A-level and GCSE for many years, and drawing up questions that assess something like that fairly and to provide higher marks for those who do demonstrate those skills - it can be done, and it would be a very interesting challenge. But, again, there are always complaints that GCSE is very formulaic. If you look at the GCSE marking schemes, they say there are so many marks for using one original source, so many marks for comparing two original sources, and so many marks for drawing on three sources, one original and so on. So, it can be done but it's extremely complex. It would be a very interesting challenge, trying to draw up something like that.
Welsh: Wel, byddai hwnna'n ddiddorol iawn; byddai'n gofyn cwestiynau. Roeddwn i'n arfer rheoleiddio lefel A a TGAU hanes am rai blynyddoedd, ac mae llunio cwestiynau sydd yn asesu rhywbeth fel yna'n deg a rhoi marciau uwch iddyn nhw - mae yna fodd i'w wneud e, a byddai'n her ddiddorol iawn, ond, eto, rwy'n gallu gweld - . Mae yna wastad cwyno bod TGAU yn formulaic iawn. Os ydych chi'n edrych ar gynlluniau marcio TGAU, maen nhw'n gallu dweud bod hyn a hyn o farciau am ddefnyddio un ffynhonnell wreiddiol, hyn a hyn o farciau am gymharu dwy ffynhonnell wreiddiol, hyn a hyn o farciau am gymharu tair ffynhonnell, un yn wreiddiol, ac felly ymlaen. Mae modd i'w wneud e ond mae'n gymhleth. Byddai'n her ddiddorol iawn i feddwl eich bod chi'n llunio rhywbeth fel yna.
English: Well, perhaps, instead of saying you would have additional marks, the marking structure - . Within the marking structure, something could be done so you'd be looking for something where a pupil could be able to show their knowledge, and then it might be possible for there to be some sort of stream within the marking structure that allows you to give extra marks for pupils who can show their information of Welsh history, of British history, and all this in a broader context. So, you could have additional marks, and it would say, 'Well, there are marks available if you can show your understanding of this particular part of general history.'
Welsh: Wel, efallai, yn lle dweud y byddech chi'n cael marciau ychwanegol, byddai'r strwythur marcio - . Rŷch chi'n edrych am bethau lle mae disgwyl y gallwch chi ddangos gwybodaeth, ac wedi hynny, wrth gwrs, efallai byddai yna ryw fath o ffrwd tu mewn i'r strwythur marcio sydd yn rhoi marciau i ddisgyblion os ydych chi'n gallu dangos dealltwriaeth o hanes Cymru, hanes Prydain, hanes Ewrop yng nghyd-destun y pwnc, efallai. Rŷch chi'n cael marciau ychwanegol, ac mae'n dweud, 'Wel, mae yna farciau ar gael os gallwch chi ddangos eich dealltwriaeth yn y rhannau hyn o faes hanes cyffredinol.'
English: Well, I like the idea very much. I do think there is huge potential there, to be honest. I don't know if you've come across this, but I drew up the S-level in history, the special level for the very able and talented pupils. And drawing up questions there was to challenge them mainly on their interpretation of history, and how much could they discuss, and how much they could discuss in a meaningful way. That was most interesting.
Welsh: Wel, dwi'n licio'r syniad yn fawr iawn. Rwy'n meddwl y buasai potensial aruthrol i hwnna, a bod yn onest. Roeddwn i wedi llunio - dwi ddim yn gwybod os ŷch chi wedi dod ar draws hyn - yr S-level yn hanes, lle'r oedd yn gofyn iddyn nhw gyrraedd yr S-level, special level, ar gyfer disgyblion galluog iawn. Ac roedd llunio'r cwestiynau yn fanna i'w herio nhw yn bennaf am ddehongliadau o hanes, a faint yr oedden nhw'n gallu trafod, faint yr oedden nhw'n gallu trafod yn ystyrlon. Roedd hwnna'n ddiddorol iawn.
English: I do remember the S-level - is history art or a science? I just have one further question to ask you. As we develop flexibility in the system of teaching history, we understand, of course, that there are various versions of history. That is completely fair, of course - you can consider history in various ways. In what way could we ensure that that flexibility is available to ensure that the versions are discussed in the classroom without there being too much emphasis on one version or another? I say that as someone who learnt my A-level from a member of Plaid Cymru and from someone who was a member of the Labour Party, and you'd never know that; they could teach history in a way that offered you various perspectives of history. So, in what way can we ensure that the teacher can lead the pupil but give them the opportunity to think for themselves, both at GCSE and A-level, and that they can develop their own version of history?
Welsh: Rwy'n cofio'r S-level - y dy hanes yn gelf neu'n wyddoniaeth? Jest un cwestiwn arall wrthyf i. Wrth inni ddatblygu hyblygrwydd yn y system ynglŷn ag addysgu hanes, rŷn ni gyd yn deall, wrth gwrs, fod yna wahanol fersiynau o hanes. Mae'n hollol deg, wrth gwrs, fod pobl yn ystyried hanes mewn ffyrdd gwahanol. Ym mha ffordd y gallwn ni sicrhau bod yr hyblygrwydd yno i sicrhau bod y fersiynau'n cael eu trafod yn y dosbarth heb orbwyslais ar un fersiwn neu'r llall? Rwy'n dweud hynny fel rhywun a gafodd ei lefel A ei addysgu gan rywun a oedd yn aelod o Blaid Cymru a rhywun arall a oedd yn aelod o'r Blaid Lafur, a byddech chi byth yn gwybod hynny; roedden nhw'n gallu addysgu hanes mewn ffordd a oedd yn rhoi gwahanol safbwyntiau o hanes. Ym mha ffordd ydych chi'n sicrhau hynny, felly - bod yr athro neu'r athrawes yn gallu arwain y disgybl, ond hefyd roi i'r disgybl y cyfle i feddwl dros ei hunan, yn enwedig yn TGAU a lefel A, a'u bod nhw'n gallu datblygu fersiwn o hanes eu hunain?
English: Thank you very much. We'll move on, therefore, to teaching. And David Melding will be asking the questions - thank you.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn. Symudwn ymlaen at addysgu. A David Melding sy'n gofyn y cwestiynau - diolch.
English: David, just before you come back, Carwyn Jones wants to ask a supplementary question, if that's all right.
Welsh: David, jest cyn ichi ddod yn ôl, mae Carwyn Jones eisiau gofyn cwestiwn atodol, os yw hwnna'n iawn.
English: David, do you have another question?
Welsh: David, oes cwestiwn arall?
English: I do understand that. There are other witnesses, aren't there?
Welsh: Ie, rwy'n deall hynny. Mae rhywun arall yn dod i mewn atoch chi.
English: Sorry about that. John Griffiths now has questions about accountability in the system, just to conclude.
Welsh: Sori am hynny. Mae gan John Griffiths gwestiynau am atebolrwydd yn y system, jest i orffen.
English: Great. We could discuss this throughout the morning, I'm sure, but we don't have the time, unfortunately. But thank you very much for joining us once again. If there's anything in addition that you would like to share with us in terms of your views about the new curriculum specifically, then please do contact us as a committee.
Welsh: Grêt. Byddem ni'n gallu trafod hyn trwy'r bore, mae'n siŵr, ond dyw'r amser ddim gyda ni. Ond diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am ddod atom eto, ond os oes unrhyw beth ychwanegol hoffech chi rannu gyda ni o ran barn ynglŷn â'r cwricwlwm newydd yn benodol, yna plis cysylltwch â ni fel pwyllgor.
English: I'm going to be working through the curriculum with some of the history societies and associations that I'm involved with, so I would be more than happy then to report back to you on the response of those organisations, because I do think that local history societies have a great deal to offer in terms of what John suggested in terms of resources.
Welsh: Rwy'n mynd i fod yn gweithio trwy'r cwricwlwm gyda rhai o'r cymdeithasau hanes rwy'n ymwneud â nhw, ac wedyn fe fydda i'n hapus iawn i adrodd nôl i chi ar ymateb y cymdeithasau hynny, achos rwy'n gweld bod gan y cymdeithasau hanes lleol llawer i'w gynnig, fel roedd John yn awgrymu, ynglŷn ag adnoddau.
English: Great. We'd welcome that very much because, obviously, knowing your local history is very important.
Welsh: Grêt. Byddem ni'n croesawu hynny achos, yn amlwg, mae gwybod hanes lleol yn bwysig iawn.
English: It is going to be crucial, I feel, and we need to work it in with geography and other aspects of the new curriculum too.
Welsh: Mae'n mynd i fod yn allweddol, rwy'n teimlo, a gweithio fe mewn gyda daearyddiaeth a gyda'r agweddau eraill ar y cwricwlwm newydd.
English: Great. Thank you very much.
Welsh: Grêt. Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi.
English: Thank you all very much.
Welsh: Diolch i chi i gyd.
English: We'll move on immediately to the next session, and then we will have a break after the following session. So, we'll just wait for the new witnesses to come in.
Welsh: Dŷn ni'n mynd i symud yn syth ymlaen mewn i'r sesiwn nesaf, ac wedyn cael seibiant ar ôl y sesiwn yma. Felly, diolch yn fawr iawn. Os gallwn ni aros i'r tystion newydd.
English: All right. We move immediately on to the next session, which is item 3. And I'd like to thank our witnesses who have joined us from the unions - Mark Cleverley, a history teacher from NASUWT, and Ioan Rhys Jones, field officer for north Wales from UCAC. Thank you both for joining us this morning to discuss history in the curriculum. As you will perhaps know, we do ask questions on a thematic basis, so we'll proceed immediately to questions if that's all right with you. And the first question is from me: do you think that things have changed since the task and finish group undertook its work in 2013, and do you believe that there has been a change out on the chalkface as a result?
Welsh: Iawn. Dŷn ni'n symud yn syth ymlaen i'r sesiwn nesaf, eitem 3, a diolch i'n tystion sydd wedi dod mewn o'r undebau, sef Mark Cleverley, athro hanes, NASUWT, ac wedyn Ioan Rhys Jones, swyddog ym maes y gogledd UCAC. Diolch i chi am ddod mewn atom heddiw i drafod hanes yn y cwricwlwm. Fel dŷch chi'n gwybod, efallai, dŷn ni'n gofyn cwestiynau ar sail themâu gwahanol, felly byddwn ni'n mynd mewn yn syth i gwestiynau os yw hynny'n iawn gyda chi. A'r cwestiwn cyntaf sydd gen i yw: ydych chi'n credu bod pethau wedi newid ers i'r grŵp gorchwyl wneud ei waith yn 2013? Ydych chi'n meddwl bod yna newid ar lawr gwlad wedi bod yn sgil hynny?
English: I don't think there's been much change in secondary schools. Everyone tends to move towards what they're comfortable with and are used to teaching. What has changed, of course, is the response to the slight change that there has been in GCSE and A-level qualifications, which means that one has to become a little bit more familiar with certain aspects of Welsh history. But, generally speaking - a lack of evidence, to a certain extent, is an issue here, but, generally speaking, from personal experience, it's very difficult for me to say that there has been major change, and I do discuss this with many teachers in classrooms.
Welsh: Dwi ddim yn meddwl bod yn fawr o newid wedi digwydd yn yr ysgolion uwchradd. Mae pawb yn mynd at yr hyn maen nhw'n gyfforddus efo fo, ac wedi arfer ei addysgu. Beth sydd wedi newid, wrth gwrs, ydy'r ymateb i'r peth newid sydd wedi bod yn y cymwysterau TGAU a lefel A, sydd yn golygu bod yn rhaid cyfarwyddo rhyw ychydig bach yn fwy ag agweddau o hanes Cymru. Ond, yn gyffredinol - diffyg tystiolaeth, i raddau, yn issue yn y fan yma, wrth reswm, ond, yn gyffredinol, o brofiad personol, mae'n anodd iawn i ni ddweud bod yna wedi bod newid mawr, wrth drafod efo pob math o athrawon ystafell ddosbarth.
English: Thank you. Now my questions are going to focus on the present, and other Members will come on to what will ensue. But, in that context, we have heard from Dr Elin Jones that there is a problem in terms of evidence. Do you believe that having a thematic report from Estyn on what is currently happening would assist? Because, if there's a lack of evidence now, well, what will happen next, in terms of a system that is even more flexible? Would you agree that something such as that would assist us, or, before Donaldson comes in, what do you think needs to be changed, if anything?
Welsh: Diolch. Mae fy nghwestiynau i yn ffocysu ar nawr, a bydd pobl yn dod at beth sydd yn mynd i ddilyn. Yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, dŷn ni wedi clywed gan Dr Elin Jones bod yna broblem o ran tystiolaeth. Fyddech chi'n credu y byddai cael adroddiad thematig gan Estyn ar beth sydd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd yn helpu? Achos, os oes yna ddiffyg tystiolaeth nawr, beth sy'n mynd i ddigwydd wedyn o ran system sydd hyd yn oed yn fwy hyblyg? Fyddech chi'n cytuno y byddai rhywbeth fel yna yn helpu, neu, cyn i Donaldson ddod mewn, beth fyddech chi'n meddwl sydd angen ei newid, os o gwbl?