English: First, can I welcome this debate and also welcome the Conservatives' 'Housing a Nation' White Paper? I don't agree with it all, but I think it's a good place for us to start talking. I don't believe we discuss housing anywhere near enough in the Assembly, and also the far too much general talk of housing is based around rising house prices being good for homeowners and mortgage payers as opposed to bad for first-time buyers, people renting and those who are inadequately housed, which includes a lot of my constituents. Housing is the great challenge facing all of Britain, including Wales. The post-war period in terms of housing can be broken down into two periods: first, the period 1945 to 1980. During this period, we saw a huge growth in council housing, the building of a large number of new estates, especially in larger urban areas. We also saw the growth of owner-occupation and the start of building of large private estates, again predominantly in the larger urban areas. Over recent years, there has been a large increase in the number of empty properties. I've heard all sorts of numbers, between 16,000 and 27,000. If I use the term 'over 20,000', to me, that's over 20,000 too many. A number of these, including some in my constituency, are in places people actually want to live. They're not sort of out in 'who'd want to live there?' People often want to live there; it's just that they've just been left. Something's got to be done about this. There's also been the increase in - . Housing tenure, there's been an increase in the number of single-person households, because people have got older and more young people are living alone, an increase in pensioner households, an increase in young people in houses of multiple occupation, especially, but not exclusively, students. Council housing has declined through the sale of a large number of houses and a failure to build new ones. There's also been a substantial growth in housing association properties but nowhere near enough to make up for the decline in council house building. The decline in the private rented sector of the 1960s and 1970s has been reversed, with a huge increase in private landlords, both the large-scale owners and those using an additional property as an alternative to a pension. As a consequence of benefit changes, demand has increased for smaller size accommodation. Since 1980, we have seen almost a complete end to council house building, the growth of owner-occupation, which has stalled, and the growth of housing associations into major landlords has occurred, but they're not going anywhere near making up for the loss in council houses. During the whole of this period, we've seen a reduction in the average number of adults living in each property, and the sale of council housing has had a serious effect on the housing market. It has reduced the supply of council housing, and that has increased demand for both housing association properties and privately rented. Anybody who's gone around council estates campaigning will have noted the number of 'for rent' signs - privately rented - on properties built by councils in the past. And can I let you know that the rents are substantially higher than the council charge? There were two periods in the twentieth century when housing supply did a reasonable job of meeting housing demand and need. The first was between the wars, when cities expanded horizontally into the suburban development of green fields, assisted by government initiatives, and builders could offer affordable home ownership to people on middle to low incomes. And that was because we didn't have a planning Act. I don't think anybody wants to do away with the Town and Country Planning Act 1947, as amended, so the other option, after the second world war, was council housing, which, at one stage, accounted for roughly half the number of houses built. Anybody who follows elections - if you look at the British general election in 1974, at the book that is produced after each election, you will see the number of constituencies, mainly in Scotland, where over 50 per cent of the housing was council, but, in a large part of Wales, including my constituency, over 40 per cent of the housing was council. So, we're now in a situation where we've got to do something. The number of private houses being built has always stayed roughly similar - it's gone up and down a little, but it's been fairly similar. Because, let's be honest, if you were a major house builder, why would you want to build surplus? If you build surplus, house prices will come down; you'll have empty properties. You want to keep demand high. And I don't blame the house builders for that; they'd be doing their shareholders a disservice. So, something has got to take up the slack. The only thing that's effectively taking up the slack is council housing, so that's where we've got to go. We have seen some local authorities, including my own in Swansea, starting building council houses, but they need to be built on scale. I mean, if you look - . The First Minister represents possibly the largest council estate in Wales, based in Ely. I represent one of the largest council estate areas, which really is a number of different names, but it stretches from Clase to Blaenymaes, across the north of Swansea. These provided houses for people. There are large obstacles to a renaissance of council-house building, including, but not only, the obvious one of money. How do we get around it? Well, allow councils to borrow against the value of their stock. I think that - . Can I just finish with two points? We need to build a substantial number of council houses and we need to bring more empty properties back into use. Bring the 20,000 empty properties back into use, get council houses built. And, if I'd had time, I'd have said how important co-operative houses were.
Welsh: Yn gyntaf, a gaf fi groesawu'r ddadl hon a chroesawu hefyd y Papur Gwyn 'Cartrefu Cenedl' gan y Ceidwadwyr? Nid wyf yn cytuno â'r cyfan ohono, ond credaf ei fod yn lle da i ni ddechrau siarad. Nid wyf yn credu ein bod yn trafod agos digon ar dai yn y Cynulliad, ac mae llawer gormod o siarad cyffredinol am dai yn seiliedig ar fod cynnydd mewn prisiau tai yn dda i berchnogion tai a thalwyr morgeisi yn hytrach na'i fod yn ddrwg i brynwyr tro cyntaf, pobl sy'n rhentu a phobl heb gartrefi digon da, sy'n cynnwys llawer o fy etholwyr. Tai yw'r her fawr sy'n wynebu Prydain gyfan, gan gynnwys Cymru. Gellir rhannu'r cyfnod ar ôl y rhyfel yn ddau gyfnod mewn perthynas â thai: yn gyntaf, y cyfnod rhwng 1945 a 1980. Yn ystod y cyfnod hwn, gwelwyd twf aruthrol yn niferoedd tai cyngor, adeiladu nifer fawr o ystadau newydd, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd trefol mwy o faint. Hefyd, gwelsom dwf perchen-feddiannaeth a dechrau adeiladu ystadau preifat mawr, unwaith eto yn yr ardaloedd trefol mwy o faint yn bennaf. Dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, gwelwyd cynnydd mawr yn nifer yr adeiladau gwag. Clywais bob math o ffigurau, rhwng 16,000 a 27,000. Os defnyddiaf y term 'dros 20,000', i mi, mae hynny'n golygu dros 20,000 yn ormod. Mae nifer o'r rhain, gan gynnwys rhai yn fy etholaeth i, mewn lleoedd y mae pobl eisiau byw ynddynt mewn gwirionedd. Nid ydynt allan mewn mannau 'pwy fyddai am fyw yno?' math o beth. Yn aml mae pobl eisiau byw yno, ond maent wedi cael eu gadael yn wag, dyna i gyd. Rhaid gwneud rhywbeth ynglŷn â hyn. Gwelwyd cynnydd hefyd mewn - . Deiliadaeth tai, gwelwyd cynnydd yn nifer yr aelwydydd un person, gan fod pobl wedi tyfu'n hŷn ac mae mwy o bobl ifanc yn byw ar eu pen eu hunain, cynnydd yn nifer yr aelwydydd pensiynwyr, cynnydd yn nifer y bobl ifanc mewn tai amlfeddiant, yn enwedig myfyrwyr, er nad myfyrwyr yn unig. Mae niferoedd tai cyngor wedi gostwng yn sgil gwerthu nifer fawr o dai a methiant i adeiladu rhai newydd. Cynyddodd eiddo cymdeithasau tai yn sylweddol ond nid yw'n hanner digon i wneud iawn am y gostyngiad yn nifer y tai cyngor a adeiladwyd. Mae'r dirywiad yn y sector rhentu preifat yn y 1960au a'r 1970au wedi'i wrthdroi, gyda chynnydd enfawr yn nifer y landlordiaid preifat, yn berchnogion ar raddfa fawr a rhai sy'n defnyddio eiddo ychwanegol fel dewis arall yn lle pensiwn. O ganlyniad i newidiadau i fudd-daliadau, mae'r galw wedi cynyddu am lety llai o faint. Ers 1980, rydym wedi gweld diwedd bron yn llwyr ar adeiladu tai cyngor, twf perchen-feddiannaeth, sydd wedi arafu, ac mae twf cymdeithasau tai yn landlordiaid mawr wedi digwydd, ond nid yw hyn yn mynd yn agos at wneud iawn am y tai cyngor a gollwyd. Yn ystod yr holl gyfnod hwn, rydym wedi gweld gostyngiad yn nifer gyfartalog yr oedolion sy'n byw ym mhob eiddo, ac mae gwerthu tai cyngor wedi cael effaith ddifrifol ar y farchnad dai. Mae wedi lleihau'r cyflenwad o dai cyngor, ac mae hynny wedi cynyddu'r galw am eiddo cymdeithasau tai ac eiddo rhent preifat. Bydd unrhyw un sydd wedi bod o gwmpas ystadau cyngor yn ymgyrchu wedi nodi nifer yr arwyddion 'ar rent' - rhent preifat - ar eiddo a adeiladwyd gan gynghorau yn y gorffennol. Ac a gaf fi ddweud wrthych fod y rhenti gryn dipyn yn uwch na'r hyn y mae'r cyngor yn ei ofyn? Roedd dau gyfnod yn ystod yr ugeinfed ganrif pan lwyddodd y cyflenwad tai i fodloni'r galw a'r angen am dai yn eithaf da. Y cyfnod cyntaf oedd rhwng y ddau ryfel byd, pan ehangodd dinasoedd yn llorweddol i ddatblygu caeau gwyrdd maestrefol, gyda chymorth mentrau llywodraeth, a gallai adeiladwyr gynnig perchentyaeth fforddiadwy i bobl ar incwm canolig i isel. Ac roedd hynny oherwydd nad oedd gennym Ddeddf cynllunio. Nid wyf yn meddwl bod unrhyw un eisiau cael gwared ar Ddeddf Cynllunio Gwlad a Thref 1947, fel y'i diwygiwyd, felly y dewis arall, ar ôl yr ail ryfel byd, oedd tai cyngor, ac ar un adeg, dyna oedd oddeutu hanner y nifer o dai a adeiladwyd. Bydd unrhyw un sy'n astudio etholiadau - os edrychwch ar yr etholiad cyffredinol ym Mhrydain yn 1974, ar y llyfr sy'n cael ei gynhyrchu ar ôl pob etholiad, fe welwch nifer yr etholaethau, yn bennaf yn yr Alban, lle'r oedd dros 50 y cant o'r tai yn dai cyngor, ond mewn rhan fawr o Gymru, gan gynnwys fy etholaeth i, roedd dros 40 y cant o'r tai yn dai cyngor. Felly, rydym mewn sefyllfa bellach lle y mae'n rhaid gwneud rhywbeth. Mae nifer y tai preifat a adeiladir bob amser wedi aros yn eithaf tebyg - mae wedi codi a disgyn ychydig, ond mae wedi bod yn weddol debyg. Oherwydd, gadewch inni fod yn onest, os oeddech yn gwmni adeiladu tai mawr, pam y byddech eisiau adeiladu gormod o dai? Os adeiladwch ormod o dai, bydd prisiau tai yn disgyn; bydd gennych eiddo gwag. Rydych eisiau cadw'r galw'n uchel. Ac nid wyf yn beio'r cwmnïau adeiladu tai am hynny; byddent yn gwneud anghymwynas â'u cyfranddalwyr. Felly, rhaid i rywbeth ddal y slac yn dynn. Yr unig beth sy'n dal y slac yn dynn yn effeithiol yw tai cyngor, felly dyna lle y mae'n rhaid inni fynd. Rydym wedi gweld rhai awdurdodau lleol, gan gynnwys fy awdurdod fy hun yn Abertawe, yn dechrau adeiladu tai cyngor, ond mae angen iddynt gael eu hadeiladu ar raddfa fawr. Hynny yw, os edrychwch - . Mae Prif Weinidog Cymru yn cynrychioli'r ystâd o dai cyngor fwyaf yng Nghymru, yn Nhrelái. Rwy'n cynrychioli un o'r ardaloedd mwyaf o ystadau tai cyngor, sy'n nifer o enwau gwahanol mewn gwirionedd, ond mae'n ymestyn o'r Clâs i Flaen-y-maes, ar draws gogledd Abertawe. Roedd y rhain yn darparu tai ar gyfer pobl. Ceir rhwystrau mawr i ddadeni mewn adeiladu tai cyngor, gan gynnwys yr un amlwg, sef arian, er nad hynny'n unig. Sut y gallwn ei oresgyn? Wel, caniatáu i gynghorau fenthyca yn erbyn gwerth eu stoc. Credaf fod - . A gaf fi orffen gyda dau bwynt? Mae angen inni adeiladu nifer sylweddol o dai cyngor ac mae angen inni ailddechrau defnyddio mwy o eiddo gwag unwaith eto. Ailddechreuwch ddefnyddio'r 20,000 o adeiladau gwag, adeiladwch dai cyngor. A phe bai gennyf amser, buaswn wedi dweud pa mor bwysig oedd tai cydweithredol.