English: I commend Simon Thomas for bringing this debate forward and for the sober way in which he argued his case, in particular his conclusion, because that's how I was intending to begin my speech, in any event, to point to the enormous cull of cattle that has taken place - with no conferring. Since 1996, nearly 120,000 cattle have been slaughtered as part of the control of tuberculosis in cattle. So, this debate, which is so frequently taking place in the context of the badger cull, has to be considered in a much wider context, because also, as a result of the uncontrolled expansion in the number of badgers in the countryside, other species have also been culled quite naturally - hedgehogs, toads, snakes, slow worms, and so on and so forth. So, nature in the raw, I'm afraid, is perhaps very unpleasant, but that's the reality of life in the wild. The problems in Wales are particularly severe. In the 12 months to June 2015, 9,500 cattle were slaughtered, and that's a 43 per cent increase on the previous year. It's particularly a problem in our region of Mid and West Wales. In Pembrokeshire, there's a 55 per cent increase in the number of cattle slaughtered to June 2015. In Carmarthenshire, it's 89 per cent. Simon referred to the particular problems in Clwyd, which has seen a 129 per cent increase in the number of cattle slaughtered. These are dreadful figures and each one constituted a tragedy for the farm concerned and the farming family that runs it. So, this is not a problem that is going to be solved very soon. The tragedy is that, at the moment, because of the lack of vaccine, in effect, the Government has no policy. The percentage of herds in Wales that are currently under restriction has gone up from nearly 4 per cent in 2006 to nearly 6 per cent in 2015, and that also poses significant costs and difficulties for the individual farms concerned. Vaccination is undoubtedly part of the solution to the problem, but we won't have a vaccine available generally until at least 2023, according to the industry. We have to remember that, even if we do have a vaccination policy, it doesn't actually confer immunity upon badgers that have already been infected, although it does help to stop other badgers being infected. Although, it's said that the vaccination itself may be no more than 70 per cent or 80 per cent effective. So, even if we do have a proper vaccination policy, it's not going to be the solution, 100 per cent. The cost of the current policy is significant - or the policy that we had up until the vaccine disappeared, that is. In 2015, we spent £922,000 on 1,118 badgers - that's £825 per badger. I don't know how we can conclude that this is a policy that we can afford, if it's going to be applied to achieve the levels of freedom from infection that we would like to see. Greater surveillance and biosecurity are also important, and have, undoubtedly, had an effect on the figures. They have reduced the number of new incidents - we have to be aware of that - from 1,112 in 2012 down to 854 in 2014, the latest year for which figures are available. But, the slaughter figures have actually got worse as the number of herds infected each year has gone down. In 2014, 8,103 cattle were slaughtered, compared with 6,102 in 2012. We have to remember that tuberculosis is a horrible disease, and the badgers that are infected by it suffer as well. So, any means that we can employ that have a long-term benefit of reducing the incidence of TB in badgers is good for badgers themselves. It's not humane, actually, to have a policy that doesn't work. Therefore, I think we have to, perhaps, be less squeamish about the way in which we approach this. There is no doubt that badgers do spread tuberculosis to cattle - that has been proved scientifically. It has been proved also that culling badgers does reduce the incidence in herds. I heard what Joyce Watson said about the Krebs report, but the Krebs report has been criticised for many reasons on account of the weaknesses and anomalies in its strategies. We haven't time to go into that today. But, I agree with her conclusion from the report that has been produced by the British Veterinary Association that a targeted, effective and humane cull is going to have to be part of a long-term policy of eradication. This can be done in ways that are humane. Shooting with rifles at a distance is not a humane or effective way of doing it - that's not something that I would support. But, there are more humane methods of trapping and gassing in setts with carbon dioxide, which isn't lethal to badgers except in certain doses, so, if it is not done properly, there is no ill effect that is felt. So, I'm afraid that the cull will continue - not of badgers, though, but of cattle, with all of the costs. Simon Thomas was quite right, I think, to refer to the emotional costs that are involved here, as well as the financial ones. Ultimately, as far as our negotiations with the EU are concerned, I do agree with both him and Huw Irranca-Davies that this is potentially a hurdle that we've got to get over. It's vitally important, therefore, that the Welsh Government takes a strong view on this, and I think Huw Irranca-Davies showed the way forward - that, under the current regime that has been endorsed by the European Commission, there is no excuse whatsoever for using this, as the French did in relation to BSE, to try to block exports of meat products from Wales or the United Kingdom. So, although we, perhaps, don't have the full answer to the problems that exist in relation to bovine TB, perhaps today we have begun, in a cross-party debate, to explore the solutions that are bound, ultimately, to be the ones that the Government will have to face up to.
Welsh: Rwy'n canmol Simon Thomas am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon ac am y modd difrifol y mae wedi dadlau ei achos, yn enwedig ei gasgliad, gan mai dyna sut yr oeddwn yn bwriadu dechrau fy araith, beth bynnag, er mwyn tynnu sylw at y difa gwartheg sylweddol sydd wedi digwydd - heb unrhyw ymgynghori. Ers 1996, mae bron i 120,000 o wartheg wedi cael eu lladd yn rhan o'r broses o reoli twbercwlosis mewn gwartheg. Felly, mae'n rhaid ystyried y ddadl hon, sy'n digwydd mor aml yng nghyd-destun y rhaglen ddifa moch daear, mewn cyd-destun llawer ehangach, gan fod rhywogaethau eraill hefyd wedi cael eu difa yn naturiol yn sgil y cynnydd afreolus yn nifer y moch daear yng nghefn gwlad - draenogod, llyffantod, nadroedd, nadroedd defaid, ac yn y blaen. Felly, gall natur gignoeth fod yn annymunol iawn, gwaetha'r modd, ond dyna yw realiti bywyd gwyllt. Mae'r problemau yng Nghymru yn arbennig o ddifrifol. Yn y 12 mis hyd at fis Mehefin 2015, lladdwyd 9,500 o wartheg, sy'n gynnydd o 43 y cant o gymharu â'r flwyddyn flaenorol. Mae'n broblem arbennig yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Yn Sir Benfro, bu cynnydd o 55 y cant yn nifer y gwartheg a laddwyd hyd at fis Mehefin 2015. Yn Sir Gaerfyrddin, bu cynnydd o 89 y cant. Cyfeiriodd Simon at y problemau penodol yng Nghlwyd, lle bu cynnydd o 129 y cant yn nifer y gwartheg a laddwyd. Mae'r rhain yn ffigurau ofnadwy ac mae pob un yn drasiedi i'r fferm yr effeithiwyd arni a'r teulu sy'n ei ffermio. Felly, nid yw hon yn broblem sy'n mynd i gael ei datrys yn fuan iawn. Y drasiedi ar hyn o bryd, yn sgil y diffyg brechlyn, yw nad oes gan y Llywodraeth unrhyw bolisi i bob pwrpas. Mae canran y buchesi yng Nghymru sydd o dan gyfyngiad ar hyn o bryd wedi codi o bron 4 y cant yn 2006 i bron 6 y cant yn 2015, ac mae hynny wedi arwain hefyd at gostau ac anawsterau sylweddol i'r ffermydd unigol dan sylw. Heb os, mae brechu'n rhan o'r ateb i'r broblem, ond ni fydd gennym frechlyn ar gael yn gyffredinol tan o leiaf 2023, yn ôl y diwydiant. Hyd yn oed pe bai gennym bolisi brechu, rhaid i ni gofio na fyddai hynny'n creu imiwnedd mewn moch daear sydd eisoes wedi'u heintio, er y byddai'n helpu i atal moch daear eraill rhag cael eu heintio. Fodd bynnag, dywedir ei bod yn bosibl nad yw effeithiolrwydd y brechiad ei hun yn fwy na 70 y cant neu 80 y cant. Felly, hyd yn oed pe bai gennym bolisi brechu priodol, ni fyddai hynny'n ateb 100 y cant. Mae cost y polisi presennol yn sylweddol - neu'r polisi a oedd gennym tan i'r brechlyn ddiflannu, hynny yw. Yn 2015, gwariwyd £922,000 ar 1,118 o foch daear - sef £825 am bob mochyn daear. Ni wn sut y gallwn ddod i'r casgliad fod hwn yn bolisi y gallwn ei fforddio, os yw'n mynd i gael ei roi ar waith i gyflawni'r lefelau yr hoffem eu gweld o ran cael gwared â'r haint. Mae gwell gwyliadwriaeth a bioddiogelwch yn bwysig hefyd, a heb amheuaeth, maent wedi cael effaith ar y ffigurau. Maent wedi lleihau nifer y digwyddiadau newydd - mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn ymwybodol o hynny - o 1,112 yn 2012 i lawr i 854 yn 2014, sef y flwyddyn ddiweddaraf y mae ffigurau ar gael ar ei chyfer. Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae nifer y gwartheg a laddwyd wedi codi wrth i nifer y buchesi a heintiwyd bob blwyddyn ostwng. Yn 2014, lladdwyd 8,103 o wartheg, o gymharu â 6,102 yn 2012. Mae'n rhaid i ni gofio bod twbercwlosis yn glefyd ofnadwy, a bod y moch daear a heintiwyd yn dioddef hefyd. Felly, bydd unrhyw ddull y gallwn ei ddefnyddio a fydd yn arwain at y budd hirdymor o leihau nifer yr achosion o TB mewn moch daear yn dda i'r moch daear eu hunain. Mewn gwirionedd, mae'n greulon cael polisi nad yw'n gweithio. Felly credaf, efallai, y dylem fod yn llai cysetlyd ynglŷn â'r ffordd yr ydym yn ymdrin â'r mater hwn. Nid oes amheuaeth fod moch daear yn lledaenu twbercwlosis i wartheg - mae hynny wedi ei brofi'n wyddonol. Mae wedi ei brofi hefyd fod difa moch daear yn lleihau'r achosion o TB mewn buchesi. Clywais yr hyn a ddywedodd Joyce Watson ynglŷn ag adroddiad Krebs, ond mae adroddiad Krebs wedi cael ei feirniadu am lawer o resymau oherwydd y gwendidau a'r anomaleddau yn ei strategaethau. Nid oes amser gennym i drafod hynny heddiw. Ond cytunaf â'i chasgliad o'r adroddiad a gynhyrchwyd gan Gymdeithas Milfeddygon Prydain y bydd yn rhaid i bolisi difa di-boen ac effeithiol wedi'i dargedu fod yn rhan o bolisi difa hirdymor. Gellir gwneud hyn mewn ffyrdd di-boen. Nid yw saethu gyda reifflau o bell yn ffordd ddi-boen nac effeithiol o wneud hynny - nid yw'n rhywbeth y byddwn yn ei gefnogi. Ond ceir dulliau mwy di-boen o drapio a nwyo mewn brochfeydd â charbon deuocsid, ac nid yw hynny'n angheuol i foch daear, ac eithrio mewn rhai dosau, felly os nad yw'n cael ei wneud yn iawn, nid ydynt yn teimlo unrhyw effaith wael. Felly, ofnaf y bydd y difa'n parhau - nid difa moch daear, fodd bynnag, ond difa gwartheg, gyda'r holl gostau. Credaf fod Simon Thomas yn llygad ei le yn cyfeirio at y costau emosiynol sydd ynghlwm wrth hyn, yn ogystal â'r costau ariannol. Yn y pen draw, o ran ein trafodaethau gyda'r UE, cytunaf gydag ef a Huw Irranca-Davies y gallai hwn fod yn rhwystr y bydd yn rhaid i ni ei oresgyn. Mae'n hynod bwysig, felly, fod gan Lywodraeth Cymru safbwynt cadarn ar hyn, a chredaf fod Huw Irranca-Davies wedi dangos y ffordd ymlaen - o dan y drefn bresennol sydd wedi cael ei chymeradwyo gan y Comisiwn Ewropeaidd, nid oes unrhyw esgus o gwbl dros ddefnyddio hyn, fel y gwnaeth Ffrainc mewn perthynas â BSE, i geisio rhwystro allforion cynhyrchion cig o Gymru neu'r Deyrnas Unedig. Felly, er nad oes gennym ateb cyflawn, efallai, o ran y problemau mewn perthynas â TB buchol, efallai ein bod heddiw, mewn dadl drawsbleidiol, wedi dechrau archwilio'r atebion y bydd y Llywodraeth, yn anochel, yn gorfod eu hwynebu yn y pen draw.