English: I congratulate Simon Thomas on getting this debate and on proposing his motion without, I believe, mentioning badgers, which I think we all knew were the substance of the debate to come. I find it unusual speaking at the moment because I don't have a strong view for or against badger culling as a potential solution or at least way to improve, mitigate, the situation of bovine TB. I did vote against the culling that took place in Somerset and Gloucestershire, but for me it was a very finely balanced issue, hearing both from farmers who were affected and many who were concerned about the potential cruelty and a desire to protect badgers who wrote on the other side of the debate. I think at that point, though, the prospect of vaccination as an alternative solution was - there was, I think, perhaps greater optimism around that than there is now some years later. As chairman of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, this is in the purview of the committee and we as committee members must decide how much of our time we wish to invest in understanding this issue better and trying to take the situation forward. I complement Simon Thomas on the wording of his motion. I believe the people who believe vaccination may still be a realistic solution or have other ideas as to how bovine TB could be dealt with may perhaps find themselves able to support this motion. But what I would ask is, whatever Members are, I just hope we would try not to become overly entrenched in a position without focusing and really trying to understand new evidence that may come forward. We've heard, I think, of the Krebs study that took place historically, and some other more recent studies people referred to, as perhaps having a different implication. But also, on the farmers' side, I can see the pain this issue causes them, but I also fear that, for some, the idea of culling badgers will be a solution, if not a silver bullet, I think a great deal of belief is invested in, whereas, even if we were to go down the route of really significant and continual badger culling, it is not clear to me, at least, how much effect that would have on the problem, even if it were to have some, and I continue to study the evidence on either side of this. I look very much to hearing what the Cabinet Secretary has to say to us in two or three weeks' time in her statement. I also look forward to the full report on the culling in Somerset and in Gloucestershire, which I'm told will be available later this autumn. Even if the scientific basis of that culling is not as strong as we might want in terms of a comparison, as there have been difficulties with how it's been carried out, I do hope it will take the debate forward and I do hope Members will remain engaged with this as we on our committee do what we can to take the issue forward. I look forward, I hope, to this continuing to be discussed in this Chamber so we can give some report and do the right thing, as well as we can, by the farmers as well as for the protection of wildlife and the prevention of cruelty of all kinds. Thank you.
Welsh: Rwy'n llongyfarch Simon Thomas ar gael y ddadl hon ac am gynnig ei gynnig heb grybwyll moch daear, rwy'n credu, a chredaf ein bod i gyd yn gwybod mai moch daear oedd hanfod y ddadl i ddod. Rwy'n ei chael hi'n anarferol siarad ar hyn o bryd gan nad oes gennyf farn gref o blaid neu yn erbyn difa moch daear fel ateb posibl neu o leiaf fel ffordd o wella, lliniaru, y sefyllfa o ran TB gwartheg. Pleidleisiais yn erbyn y difa a ddigwyddodd yng Ngwlad yr Haf a Swydd Gaerloyw, ond i mi roedd yna ddadleuon cryf ar y ddwy ochr, a chlywyd gan ffermwyr yr effeithiwyd arnynt a sawl un a oedd yn pryderu am y creulondeb posibl ac awydd i amddiffyn moch daear a ysgrifennodd ar yr ochr arall i'r ddadl. Rwy'n credu, ar y pwynt hwnnw, fodd bynnag, fod y posibilrwydd o frechu fel ateb arall yn - rwy'n meddwl bod mwy o optimistiaeth ynghylch hynny, efallai, nag yn awr, rai blynyddoedd yn ddiweddarach. Fel cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd, yr Amgylchedd a Materion Gwledig, mae hwn yn rhan o gylch gorchwyl y pwyllgor a rhaid i ni fel aelodau o'r pwyllgor benderfynu faint o'n hamser rydym yn dymuno'i roi i ddeall y mater hwn yn well a cheisio symud y sefyllfa yn ei blaen. Rwy'n cymeradwyo Simon Thomas ar eiriad ei gynnig. Rwy'n credu efallai y gall y bobl sy'n credu y gallai brechu fod yn ateb realistig o hyd neu sydd â syniadau eraill ynglŷn â sut y gellid ymdrin â TB buchol gefnogi'r cynnig hwn. Ond yr hyn y byddwn i'n ei ofyn, beth bynnag yw safbwynt Aelodau, rwy'n gobeithio na fyddem yn glynu'n rhy bendant at ein safbwynt heb ganolbwyntio ac ymdrechu'n galed i ddeall tystiolaeth newydd a allai ddod gerbron. Rydym wedi clywed, rwy'n meddwl, am astudiaeth Krebs a gynhaliwyd o'r blaen, a rhai astudiaethau eraill mwy diweddar y cyfeiriodd pobl atynt, fel rhai y gallai fod goblygiadau gwahanol iddynt o bosibl. Ond hefyd, ar ochr y ffermwyr, gallaf weld y boen y mae'r mater hwn yn ei achosi iddynt, ond rwyf hefyd yn ofni y bydd y syniad o ddifa moch daear yn ateb i rai, os nad yn ateb i bob dim, ac rwy'n meddwl bod llawer o ffydd yn cael ei roi yn hynny. Ond pe baem yn dilyn trywydd cynlluniau sylweddol a pharhaus iawn i ddifa moch daear, nid yw'n glir i mi o leiaf, faint o effaith y byddai hynny'n ei chael ar y broblem, hyd yn oed pe bai'n cael rhywfaint o effaith, ac rwy'n parhau i astudio'r dystiolaeth ar y naill ochr a'r llall i hyn. Rwy'n edrych ymlaen yn fawr iawn at glywed yr hyn sydd gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i'w ddweud wrthym ymhen dwy neu dair wythnos yn ei datganiad. Rwyf hefyd yn edrych ymlaen at yr adroddiad llawn ar y difa yng Ngwlad yr Haf ac yn Swydd Gaerloyw, a fydd ar gael yn ddiweddarach yr hydref hwn, yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf. Hyd yn oed os na fydd y sail wyddonol dros y difa yn y fan honno mor gryf ag y gallem fod ei eisiau o ran cymhariaeth, gan fod anawsterau wedi bod gyda'r ffordd y cafodd ei gynnal, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yn symud y ddadl yn ei blaen ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau'n parhau i ymwneud â hyn wrth i ni ar y pwyllgor wneud yr hyn a allwn i symud y mater yn ei flaen. Edrychaf ymlaen, rwy'n gobeithio, at weld hyn yn parhau i gael ei drafod yn y Siambr hon er mwyn i ni allu adrodd rhywfaint ar y mater a gwneud y peth iawn, cystal ag y gallwn, i ffermwyr yn ogystal ag er gwarchod bywyd gwyllt ac atal creulondeb o bob math. Diolch.