techiaith/cofnodycynulliad_en-cy huggingface dataset:
English: What is it about devolution, Llywydd, that Plaid Cymru does not understand? [ Interruption. ] Where have they been? [ Interruption. ] Where have they been for the last 20 years? Scottish politicians make decisions based on what they believe to be right for Scotland. This Assembly makes decisions on what we believe is right for Wales. What is it about that simple proposition that Plaid Cymru find it so difficult to grasp?
Welsh: Beth yw hi ynglŷn â datganoli, Llywydd, nad yw Plaid Cymru yn ei ddeall? [ Torri ar draws. ] Ble maen nhw wedi bod? [ Torri ar draws. ] Ble maen nhw wedi bod wedi dros yr 20 mlynedd diwethaf? Mae gwleidyddion yr Alban yn gwneud penderfyniadau yn seiliedig ar yr hyn y mae'n nhw'n credu sy'n iawn ar gyfer yr Alban. Mae'r Cynulliad hwn yn gwneud penderfyniadau ar yr hyn yr ydym ni'n credu sy'n iawn i Gymru. Beth yw hi ynglŷn â'r gosodiad syml hwnnw y mae Plaid Cymru yn ei chael hi mor anodd deall?
English: Whilst the devolution settlement might be different for Scotland than it is for Wales, whilst there might be different questions of what to do with different powers in Scotland and in Wales, the principle is one and the same, and the principle here is that, in relation to Scotland, senior figures in your party, including your party leader, believe this is an affront to democracy, whereas in Wales for some reason it's not. It is one and the same in terms of the principle.
Welsh: Er bod y setliad datganoli efallai yn wahanol i'r Alban ag ydyw ar gyfer Cymru, er efallai bod cwestiynau gwahanol o ran beth i'w wneud â phwerau gwahanol yn yr Alban ac yng Nghymru, yr un yw'r egwyddor, a'r egwyddor yma yw, o ran yr Alban, mae pobl allweddol yn eich plaid, gan gynnwys arweinydd eich plaid, yn credu bod hyn yn sarhad ar ddemocratiaeth, ond yng Nghymru am ryw reswm nid yw. Yr un peth ydyw yn union o ran yr egwyddor.
English: But in terms of - . There is no parity between the devolved nations and England in terms of legislating in devolved areas for England is under the inter-governmental agreement, which is political and not legal, whereas any legislation in devolved areas for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland is in legislation, so the treatment is different.
Welsh: Ond o ran - . Does dim cydraddoldeb rhwng y gwledydd datganoledig a Lloegr o ran deddfu. Yn y meysydd datganoledig ar gyfer Lloegr, mae hynny'n rhan o'r cytundeb rhynglywodraethol, sy'n wleidyddol ac nid yn gyfreithiol, tra bod unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth mewn meysydd datganoledig ar gyfer Cymru, yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon yn rhan o ddeddfwriaeth, felly mae'r driniaeth yn wahanol.
English: If this is really a roll-back of devolution, as Plaid and the SNP claim, the public seem very sanguine. I will give way.
Welsh: Os yw hyn yn wir yn gam yn ôl o ddatganoli, fel mae Plaid a'r SNP yn honni, mae'r cyhoedd yn ymddangos yn hyderus iawn. Fe wnaf ildio.
English: I thank the Member. Can he name one occasion when any Member here has argued against a UK framework?
Welsh: Diolch i'r Aelod. A all grybwyll un achlysur pan fo unrhyw Aelod yma wedi dadlau yn erbyn fframwaith ar gyfer y DU?
English: Well, you see, that's the whole point, isn't it? You argue, 'Yes, we need them', but you won't agree any process or give reasonable consent to them being constructed. You want a national veto. You want to preserve what you see as your absolute sovereignty.
Welsh: Wel, dyna'r holl bwynt, welwch chi, ynte? Rydych chi'n dadlau, 'Oes, mae eu hangen nhw arnom ni', ond wnewch chi ddim cytuno ar unrhyw broses neu roi cydsyniad rhesymol i'w ffurfio. Rydych chi eisiau pleidlais atal genedlaethol. Rydych chi eisiau cadw'r hyn a welwch chi fel eich sofraniaeth absoliwt.
English: There wouldn't have been an EU in the first place if that particular interpretation of sovereignty had not been reassessed. As Monnet said, we need to go through the barrier of narrow national sovereignty, and we need to create, in the UK, something analogous to the shared governance in the EU. Your approach is antithetical to that and that's the whole problem here this afternoon.
Welsh: Ni fyddai UE wedi bodoli yn y lle cyntaf oni ailaseswyd y dehongliad penodol hwnnw o sofraniaeth. Fel y dywedodd Monnet, mae angen inni oresgyn y rhwystr o sofraniaeth genedlaethol gul, ac mae angen inni greu, yn y DU, rhywbeth sy'n cyfateb i'r llywodraethiant cyffredin yn yr UE. Mae'r ffordd yr ydych chi'n mynd ati yn gwyrdroi hynny a dyna'r holl broblem yma y prynhawn yma.
English: Okay, I'll take one more.
Welsh: Iawn, fe wnaf i dderbyn un yn rhagor.
English: Thank you for the intervention and for drawing attention to our narrow nationalism versus your wide nationalism, if that's the case. One thing that we certainly did propose was a disputes mechanism. You have a Council of Ministers on an EU level; we need a disputes mechanism on a UK level, which we don't have.
Welsh: Diolch ichi am yr ymyriad, ac am dynnu sylw at ein cenedlaetholdeb cul o'i gymharu â'ch cenedlaetholdeb eang, os mai dyna'r sefyllfa. Un peth y gwnaethom ni yn sicr ei gynnig oedd trefn anghydfodau. Mae gennych chi Gyngor Gweinidogion ar lefel yr UE; mae angen trefn anghydfodau arnom ni ar lefel y DU, ac nid oes gennym ni hynny.
English: Can I say, Rhun, I'm genuinely pleased that you've made that point because I want to now move to my conclusion, which I do think is an area, we may find, that more unites us? As I said at the start, the inter-governmental agreement is really important. It's only the start, however, of our concept of shared governance and this does require an overhaul and it will be the ultimate test of whether these frameworks endure and work effectively. If they don't, then that unfortunately will undermine the integrity of the British constitution and the devolved settlement. So, I do partly agree with you that issues like how you resolve disputes is really, really important. The overhaul of inter-governmental relations needs to be accompanied, Llywydd, by an overhaul of inter-parliamentary relations, because how we scrutinise this level of governance has been little discussed so far and that's going to be very, very important. One of the main reasons we got into a mess, in terms of what the public saw anyway, of deficient EU governance was there was a lack of parliamentary scrutiny, and we do not want to repeat those mistakes. And here I conclude by commending the CLAC report, 'UK governance post-Brexit'. I do urge everyone to vote for this most reasonable compromise and the motion before us.
Welsh: A gaf i ddweud, Rhun, rwy'n wirioneddol falch eich bod wedi gwneud y sylw hwnnw oherwydd rwyf eisiau symud yn awr at fy nghasgliad, sydd yn faes, rwy'n credu, efallai, y byddwn yn fwy unedig yn ei gylch? Fel y dywedais ar y dechrau, mae'r cytundeb rhynglywodraethol yn bwysig iawn. Dim ond y dechrau yw, fodd bynnag, o'n cysyniad o gyd-lywodraethu ac mae angen ailwampio hyn a dyna fydd y prawf eithaf p'un a yw'r fframweithiau hyn yn mynd i bara a gweithio'n effeithiol. Os nad ydynt, yna yn anffodus bydd hynny'n tanseilio dilysrwydd y cyfansoddiad Prydeinig a'r setliad datganoledig. Felly, rwyf yn rhannol gytuno â chi fod materion fel sut mae datrys anghydfodau yn wirioneddol, wirioneddol bwysig. Wrth ailwampio cysylltiadau rhynglywodraethol, Llywydd, mae angen hefyd ailwampio'r cysylltiadau rhyngseneddol, oherwydd prin iawn fu'r drafodaeth ynghylch sut yr ydym ni'n craffu ar y lefel hon o lywodraethu hyd yma ac mae hynny'n mynd i fod yn bwysig iawn, iawn. Un o'r prif resymau yr aeth pethau yn draed moch, o ran yr hyn a welodd y cyhoedd beth bynnag, o ran llywodraethu diffygiol yr UE oedd diffyg craffu seneddol, ac nid ydym ni eisiau ailadrodd y camgymeriadau hynny. A dyma ble rwy'n terfynu drwy ganmol adroddiad y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol, 'Llywodraethiant yn y DU ar ôl gadael yr Unedeb Ewropeaidd'. Rwyf yn annog pawb i bleidleisio o blaid y cyfaddawd mwyaf rhesymol hwn a'r cynnig sydd ger ein bron.
English: I'd like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for bringing the LCM forward for debate this afternoon, and once again acknowledge the major gain that this agreement delivers for Wales and for the people we represent. Now, last night, I was fortunate to hear Mark Drakeford speak to a packed audience at Cardiff University on Brexit and devolution. He gave a formidable account, a formidable account, of Welsh Government and not just himself as the key Cabinet Secretary, the First Minister, all Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers, of their engagement in the Brexit process, but also focused on options, opportunities that we can consider that lie ahead through towards the transition period and beyond, but he delivered the message very clearly on his inter-governmental agreement, and, of course, was questioned on it, but was so clear. And we must make sure that we get this message over to the people that we represent, that all powers in our devolved policy areas will be held in Cardiff except those areas where UK frameworks are needed, and repeat the fact that the original clause 11 in the EU withdrawal Bill would have retained in Westminster all returning EU powers in devolved policy areas. We must show clearly what we have moved from, what this inter-governmental agreement has achieved.
Welsh: Fe hoffwn i ddiolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am gyflwyno'r cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol ar gyfer dadl y prynhawn yma, ac unwaith eto cydnabod y cynnydd mawr y mae'r cytundeb hwn yn ei ddarparu ar gyfer Cymru ac i'r bobl yr ydym ni yn eu cynrychioli. Nawr, neithiwr, roeddwn yn ffodus i glywed Mark Drakeford yn annerch cynulleidfa fawr ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd ynglŷn â Brexit a datganoli. Rhoddodd gyfrif aruthrol, cyfrif aruthrol, o Lywodraeth Cymru, nid yn unig o'i hun fel Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet allweddol, y Prif Weinidog, holl Ysgrifenyddion y Cabinet a Gweinidogion, o'u hymwneud â'r broses Brexit, ond hefyd fe ganolbwyntiodd ar ddewisiadau, y cyfleoedd y gallwn ni ystyried sydd o'n blaenau tuag at y cyfnod pontio a thu hwnt, ond fe gyflwynodd y neges yn glir iawn ar ei gytundeb rhynglywodraethol, ac, wrth gwrs, fe'i holwyd yn ei gylch, ond roedd mor glir. Ac mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau ein bod yn cyfleu'r neges hon i'r bobl yr ydym ni yn eu cynrychioli, y caiff yr holl bwerau yn ein meysydd polisi datganoledig eu dal yng Nghaerdydd ac eithrio'r meysydd hynny ble mae angen fframweithiau ar gyfer y DU, ac ailadrodd y ffaith y byddai'r cymal 11 gwreiddiol ym Mil ymadael yr EU wedi cadw yn San Steffan yr holl bwerau fyddai'n dychwelyd o'r UE mewn meysydd polisi datganoledig. Mae'n rhaid inni ddangos yn glir y sefyllfa yr ydym ni wedi datblygu ohoni, beth mae'r cytundeb rhynglywodraethol hwn wedi ei gyflawni.
English: Will you give way? Thank you. What they're doing is taking powers from Brussels that ought to go to Scotland, Wales and the regions of England and instead hoarding them in Whitehall. That's totally unacceptable, and we've made that clear. Jeremy Corbyn: what have you got to say about that?
Welsh: A wnewch chi ildio? Diolch. Beth maen nhw'n ei wneud yw cymryd pwerau o Frwsel a ddylai fynd i'r Alban, i Gymru a rhanbarthau Lloegr ac yn hytrach eu cronni yn Whitehall. Mae hynny'n gwbl annerbyniol, ac rydym ni wedi gwneud hynny'n glir. Jeremy Corbyn: beth sydd gennych chi i'w ddweud ynghylch hynny?
English: You're referring, of course, to the Assembly legal opinion. But, of course, in paragraph 15 of that, it says, 'The amendment has been described by some as defining the concept of consent as including refusal of consent.' The legal opinion actually says, 'In our view, this is not accurate.'
Welsh: Rydych chi'n cyfeirio, wrth gwrs, at farn gyfreithiol y Cynulliad. Ond, wrth gwrs, ym mharagraff 15 o hynny, mae'n dweud bod gwelliant wedi ei ddisgrifio gan rai fel yr hyn sy'n diffinio'r cysyniad o gydsyniad gan gynnwys gwrthod caniatâd. Mae'r farn gyfreithiol mewn gwirionedd yn dweud, 'Yn ein barn ni, nid yw hynny yn fanwl-gywir.'
English: Yes, but it goes on to say - . There's another 10 paragraphs, by the way. It goes on to say, the key point remains 'the Assembly's competence can be restricted without its consent.' And that is the essential point in any democracy. I heard the Member say, 'Well, this is Sewel. This is Sewel.' Well, this is Sewel on steroids. This creates a legal pathway, a streamlined mechanism whereby the exception can become the rule if the politics of Westminster so decides. And that's the tragedy. That is the tragedy, you know. Thinking in particular of the words of Rhodri Morgan - his last words in this Chamber - when he talked about this National Assembly we built together, it will outlast us all, it will continue to develop and grow and serve the party of Wales, he was echoing the words of Henry Grattan, who actually created the legislative independence of the Irish Parliament and talked about a nation and a new character when they won their legislative independence: 'I hail her and, bowing to her august presence, I say, "esto perpetua"' - it will continue. It didn't. It didn't. And therein lies the danger, because, if we pass this motion today, we are accepting the principle that this place is no longer sovereign.
Welsh: Ydy, ond aiff ymlaen i ddweud - . Mae 10 paragraff arall, gyda llaw. Aiff ymlaen i ddweud, a dyma'r pwynt allweddol, y gellir cyfyngu ar gymhwysedd y Cynulliad heb ei gydsyniad. Dyna'r pwynt hanfodol mewn unrhyw ddemocratiaeth. Clywais yr Aelod yn dweud, 'Wel, Sewel yw hyn. Sewel yw hyn.' Wel, Sewel ar steroids yw hyn. Mae hyn yn creu llwybr cyfreithiol, dull symlach lle gall yr eithriad fod y rheol os bydd gwleidyddiaeth San Steffan yn penderfynu felly. A dyna'r drychineb. Dyna yw'r drychineb, wyddoch chi. Wrth feddwl yn benodol am eiriau Rhodri Morgan - ei eiriau olaf yn y Siambr hon - pan siaradodd am y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol hwn y gwnaethom ni ei adeiladu gyda'n gilydd, bydd yn fwy hirhoedlog na phob un ohonom ni, bydd yn parhau i ddatblygu a thyfu i wasanaethu Cymru, roedd yn adleisio geiriau Henry Grattan, a greodd mewn gwirionedd annibyniaeth ddeddfwriaethol Senedd Iwerddon ac a soniodd am genedl a chymeriad newydd pan fyddent yn ennill eu hannibyniaeth ddeddfwriaethol: 'Rwy'n ei chyfarch, ac, wrth ymgrymu i'w phresenoldeb mawreddog, rwy'n dweud, "esto perpetua"' - Bydd yn parhau. Wnaeth hi ddim. Wnaeth hi ddim. A dyna ble mae'r perygl, oherwydd, os derbyniwn y cynnig hwn heddiw, rydym ni'n derbyn yr egwyddor nad yw'r lle hwn yn sofran mwyach.
English: Thank you. Just on a basic point, will you understand that the purpose of Plaid Cymru is not to break up the United Kingdom? It's to build up Wales.
Welsh: Diolch. Dim ond ynglŷn â phwynt sylfaenol, a wnewch chi deall nad diben Plaid Cymru yw chwalu'r Deyrnas Unedig? Y diben yw adeiladu Cymru.
English: I stand here today to state that I'm against this LCM that is before us, and against it because it could open the door to undermine the National Assembly. Over two years ago, I had the thrill of coming here as an Assembly Member for the first time to join with this Parliament, and in coming here I was very aware of the work of patriots who had been campaigning so hard to establish this Assembly in the first place. So, today is a very depressing day for me. Devolution is a process. Many people have said that over the years. So far, we've had a story of progress and a process of development and growing and maturing. Passing this Bill today is a step backwards. The legislative clause that includes the sentences about the consent decision is what counts today, not any political agreements. This clause undermines, this clause takes us backwards. Two years is a long time in politics and I'm afraid that the thrill that I felt two years ago may become a huge disappointment before the end of the day.
Welsh: Rydw i'n sefyll yma heddiw i ddatgan fy mod yn erbyn y cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol sydd gerbron. Rydw i'n ei erbyn o achos fe all agor y drws at danseilio'r Senedd genedlaethol yma. Dros ddwy flynedd yn ôl, mi gefais i'r wefr o ddod yma fel Aelod Cynulliad am y tro cyntaf i ymuno â'r egin Senedd hon. Wrth ddod yma, mi roeddwn i'n ymwybodol iawn o waith gwladgarwyr fu'n ymdrechu mor galed i sefydlu'r Cynulliad yma yn y lle cyntaf. Felly, mae heddiw yn ddiwrnod digalon imi. Proses ydy datganoli. Mae sawl un wedi dweud hynny ar hyd y blynyddoedd, a hyd yma, fe gafwyd hanes o gynnydd a phroses o ddatblygu, tyfu ac aeddfedu. Mae pasio'r Bil yma heddiw yn gam yn ôl. Y cymal deddfwriaethol sy'n cynnwys y brawddegau am benderfyniad cydsyniad - y rheini sy'n cyfrif heddiw, nid unrhyw gytundebau gwleidyddol. Mae'r cymal yma yn tanseilio, mae'r cymal yma'n mynd â ni nôl. Mae dwy flynedd yn amser hir mewn gwleidyddiaeth, ac rydw i'n ofni y bydd y wefr y gwnes i ei theimlo ddwy flynedd yn ôl wedi troi'n siom enbyd cyn diwedd y dydd.
English: Just picking up on something the finance Secretary said earlier on, he basically said that we need to note, in considering different actions taken in Wales and Scotland, that Wales voted to leave the European Union, whereas Scotland voted to remain. That, to me, sounds like an admission that, in terms of what it means for devolution, what the Welsh Government is settling for is inferior to that which the Scottish Government has decided to continue to fight for. How come this Government thinks it now has the right to decide that what a 'leave' vote meant in Wales was a vote to undermine devolution?
Welsh: Dim ond i grybwyll rhywbeth y dywedodd yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid yn gynharach, yn y bôn, dywedodd fod angen inni gydnabod, wrth ystyried y gwahanol ddewisiadau a wnaed yng Nghymru a'r Alban, bod Cymru wedi pleidleisio i adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd, tra pleidleisiodd yr Alban i aros. Mae hynny, i mi, yn swnio fel cyfaddefiad, o ran beth mae'n ei olygu ar gyfer datganoli, bod yr hyn y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei dderbyn yn israddol i'r hyn y mae Llywodraeth yr Alban wedi penderfynu parhau i ymladd drosto. Sut mae'r Llywodraeth hon yn credu bod ganddi bellach yr hawl i benderfynu mai'r hyn a olygodd pleidlais 'ymadael' oedd pleidlais i danseilio datganoli?
English: Fundamentally, I don't agree with the connection that you have made, and I hate to say this, but I think in regard to what David Melding said earlier, I think some of his points are extremely valid. So, finally, would the Cabinet Secretary agree with me that in a devolved UK - [ Interruption. ] I did caveat it. I did. Would the Cabinet Secretary agree with me that in a devolved UK - [ Interruption. ] I'll start again. Would the Cabinet Secretary agree with me that in a devolved UK, respective, mature Governments need to deal with each other as mature equals, that a council of Ministers and a disputes framework is a good idea, and that this agreement is a good step forward in the right direction for that goal? Thank you.
Welsh: Yn y bôn, nid wyf yn cytuno â'r cysylltiad yr ydych chi wedi'i wneud, ac mae'n gas gennyf ddweud hyn, ond rwy'n credu, o ran yr hyn a ddywedodd David Melding yn gynharach, rwy'n credu bod rhai o'i bwyntiau yn ddilys iawn. Felly, yn olaf, a yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn cytuno â mi, mewn Teyrnas Unedig ddatganoledig, fod - [ Torri ar draws.] Fe wnes i rybuddio ynghylch hynny. Fe wnes i. A yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn cytuno â mi, mewn Teyrnas Unedig ddatganoledig - [ Torri ar draws.] Fe wnaf i ddechrau eto. A yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn cytuno â mi, mewn Teyrnas Unedig ddatganoledig, fod angen i'r priod Lywodraethau ymdrin â'i gilydd fel cydraddolion aeddfed, fod cyngor y Gweinidogion a fframwaith anghydfodau yn syniad da, a bod y cytundeb hwn yn gam da ymlaen yn y cyfeiriad cywir tuag at y nod hwnnw? Diolch.
English: In Plaid Cymru, we believe that you should respect the result of every referendum, including the 2011 referendum in Wales, when the people of Wales voted decisively for more powers. Since then, we have lost hundreds of powers with the Wales Act 2017. That's why we had to rush through Stage 1 of the minimum alcohol pricing legislation, otherwise we would lose those powers, and we face losing more powers now, with the EU withdrawal Bill and the deal over clause 11 - now clause 15 - meaning 24 devolved areas have gone back to London and are frozen for seven years, some people's definition of 'transient'. They're frozen, and can be changed by UK Government without our consent. Even when we refuse consent, they can be changed by UK Government. So, we have lost power. We have lost leverage over environment, agriculture, fisheries, public procurement and another 20 devolved areas. They can be changed without our consent, and in the teeth of our opposition. [ Interruption.] My Chair.
Welsh: Ym Mhlaid Cymru, rydym ni'n credu y dylid parchu canlyniad pob refferendwm, gan gynnwys refferendwm 2011 yng Nghymru, pan bleidleisiodd pobl Cymru yn bendant am fwy o bwerau. Ers hynny, rydym ni wedi colli cannoedd o bwerau gyda Deddf Cymru 2017. Dyna pam y bu'n rhaid inni ruthro drwy Gyfnod 1 o'r ddeddfwriaeth isafswm pris alcohol, fel arall byddem ni'n colli'r pwerau hynny, ac rydym ni'n wynebu colli rhagor o bwerau yn awr, gyda Bil ymadael yr EU a'r fargen ynglŷn â chymal 11 - sef cymal 15 bellach - sy'n golygu bod 24 maes datganoledig wedi mynd yn ôl i Lundain ac wedi eu caethiwo am saith mlynedd, diffiniad rhai pobl o 'dros dro'. Maen nhw wedi eu caethiwo, ac fe all Llywodraeth y DU eu newid heb ein caniatâd. Hyd yn oed pan ydym ni'n gwrthod rhoi caniatâd, gall Llywodraeth y DU eu newid. Felly, rydym ni wedi colli grym. Rydym ni wedi colli dylanwad dros yr amgylchedd, amaethyddiaeth, pysgodfeydd, caffael cyhoeddus ac 20 maes datganoledig arall. Mae modd eu newid heb ein caniatâd, ac er gwaethaf ein gwrthwynebiad. [ Torri ar draws.] Fy Nghadeirydd.
English: I do appreciate you reciprocating the intervention. Thank you. We do, of course, recognise that Government can't change anything; it has to be Parliament, not the Government. The UK Government has no powers whatsoever.
Welsh: Rwy'n gwerthfawrogi eich bod yn ad-dalu'r ymyriad. Diolch. Rydym ni, wrth gwrs, yn cydnabod na all Llywodraeth newid unrhyw beth; y Senedd sy'n rhaid gwneud hynny, nid y Llywodraeth. Nid oes gan Lywodraeth y DU unrhyw bwerau o gwbl.