English: Others have made the case this afternoon for the principle of buses and funding bus services, and the organisation and management of bus services. I endorse everything that was said in opening this debate by my colleague Huw Irranca-Davies; I think it's absolutely essential that we recognise the place of buses in a wider public transport policy. What I'd like to do is seek to describe how that would fit into a wider approach from Government. And I'm glad that the Minister is here - physically here, in fact - this afternoon to be able to listen to this debate and to join the debate. In terms of how we deliver buses and bus services, there are clearly going to be significant changes and there need to be significant changes for the reasons that many people have given already; we can't carry on managing our services today and tomorrow in the way that we did some decades ago. But we also need to be aware of the needs of the people we serve. If you look at what's been happening in Ebbw Vale over the last two weeks, you'll have seen the introduction of the Fflecsi service, where you phone and make an appointment with an app to catch a bus and the rest of it, and I supported that. I would like to see the extension and development of these services, but it has to be delivered. And the chaos that we've seen in Ebbw Vale in the last couple of weeks is not the delivery of a service that the people of Ebbw Vale need. We need to ensure that, where we're delivering services, we're actually understanding the life experiences and the lived experiences of the people who are using those services. If you're taking your child to school in Ebbw Vale, you don't need a bus in an hour, you need a bus now and then you need to return in half an hour or 20 minutes. And that's what a much shorter urban bus service can do. Perhaps we need to consider the delivery of Fflecsi services and the rest of it on a wider, longer service network than in a small-town environment, where bus services are needed for short journeys that are more frequent journeys, but not longer journeys, and you need to return within an hour, and the rest of it. So, we need to understand the lived experience of people. And then, we need Government to talk with itself and with us, together. Those of you who sat in the last Senedd will have been bored by me already talking about the need - [ Interruption.] [ Laughter.] To be fair, you were bored before I stood up. About the need for services to connect places like Blaenau Gwent to the new Grange hospital in Cwmbran. And many people here will have heard Ministers responding saying that that would happen. Needless to say, the hospital was built, the hospital was opened and we don't have the bus services to connect the people to the services that we need. And parts of my constituency remain unserved by a connectivity to that fantastic new resource. So, you've got one part of Government saying, 'We're going to be delivering investment in public services and we want people to use public transport, and we want public transport to be the service of choice rather than the private car', and then we've got another part of Government delivering fantastic new facilities that are out of reach of public transport and out of reach of people who require those services. And that needs to be joined up. I don't have much patience, I'm afraid, or sympathy with Government on this, because they were told about it and they were told about it five years ago. And although we had a number of Ministers making some very eloquent speeches - and we're looking forward to yours, Minister, this afternoon - what we didn't have was the reality of the delivery of the policy on the ground, and as a consequence, I talk to constituents week after week about the failure to deliver the connectivity that they need, require and have the right to expect. I'll conclude by saying this: the deregulation of buses by the Thatcher Government in the 1980s was an utter disaster for poor and vulnerable people in this country. It was an utter disaster for bus services and for bus companies as well. We have seen the destruction of a public service as a consequence of the policy of Government, of the UK Government, and it is right and proper now that we use the powers available to us in order to restore bus services as a public service, serving the needs of people. The irony is that, not only did the Tory Government, the Thatcher Government, destroy the public service, they also destroyed the foundation of the industry itself. If Darren would do some Googling, he'd know that bus companies themselves are not sustainable as things stand. We need a sustainable service. We need a service that delivers connectivity. And we need a service, as was said earlier, that delivers social justice for people throughout this country.
Welsh: Mae eraill wedi dadlau y prynhawn yma dros yr egwyddor o fysiau ac ariannu gwasanaethau bysiau, a threfnu a rheoli gwasanaethau bysiau. Ategaf bopeth a ddywedwyd wrth agor y ddadl hon gan fy nghyd-Aelod Huw Irranca-Davies; rwy'n credu ei bod yn gwbl hanfodol ein bod yn cydnabod lle bysiau mewn polisi trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ehangach. Yr hyn yr hoffwn ei wneud yw ceisio disgrifio sut y byddai hynny'n cael ei gynnwys o fewn ymagwedd ehangach y Llywodraeth. Ac rwy'n falch fod y Gweinidog yma - yn gorfforol yma, mewn gwirionedd - y prynhawn yma i allu gwrando ar y ddadl hon ac ymuno â'r ddadl. O ran sut rydym yn darparu bysiau a gwasanaethau bysiau, mae'n amlwg y bydd newidiadau sylweddol ac mae angen newidiadau sylweddol am y rhesymau y mae llawer o bobl eisoes wedi'u rhoi; ni allwn barhau i reoli ein gwasanaethau heddiw ac yfory yn y ffordd y gwnaethom rai degawdau yn ôl. Ond mae angen inni fod yn ymwybodol hefyd o anghenion y bobl rydym yn eu gwasanaethu. Os edrychwch ar yr hyn sydd wedi bod yn digwydd yng Nglynebwy dros y pythefnos diwethaf, byddwch wedi gweld gwasanaeth Fflecsi yn cael ei gyflwyno, lle rydych yn ffonio ac yn gwneud apwyntiad gydag ap i ddal bws ac yn y blaen, a chefnogais hynny. Hoffwn weld y gwasanaethau hyn yn cael eu hymestyn a'u datblygu, ond mae'n rhaid ei ddarparu. Ac nid yr anhrefn a welsom yng Nglynebwy dros yr wythnos neu ddwy ddiwethaf yw'r gwasanaeth y mae pobl Glynebwy ei angen. Lle rydym yn darparu gwasanaethau, mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn deall profiadau bywyd a phrofiadau byw y bobl sy'n defnyddio'r gwasanaethau hynny. Os ydych yn mynd â'ch plentyn i'r ysgol yng Nglynebwy, nid bws ymhen awr sydd ei angen arnoch, mae angen bws arnoch yn awr ac yna mae angen i chi ddychwelyd mewn hanner awr neu 20 munud. A dyna mae gwasanaeth bws trefol llawer byrrach yn gallu ei wneud. Efallai fod angen inni ystyried darparu gwasanaethau Fflecsi a bob dim ar rwydwaith gwasanaeth ehangach a mwy nag a geir o fewn amgylchedd tref fach, lle mae angen gwasanaethau bysiau ar gyfer teithiau byr sy'n deithiau mwy mynych, ond nid teithiau hwy, ac mae angen ichi ddychwelyd o fewn awr, a phethau felly. Felly, mae angen inni ddeall profiad byw pobl. Wedyn, mae angen i'n Llywodraeth siarad â hi ei hun a chyda ni, gyda'n gilydd. Bydd y rheini ohonoch a oedd yn y Senedd ddiwethaf wedi diflasu arnaf yn sôn am yr angen - [ Torri ar draws.] [ Chwerthin.] A bod yn deg, roeddech wedi diflasu cyn imi godi ar fy nhraed. Ynglŷn â'r angen am wasanaethau i gysylltu lleoedd fel Blaenau Gwent ag ysbyty newydd y Faenor yng Nghwmbrân. A bydd llawer o bobl yma wedi clywed Gweinidogion yn ymateb gan ddweud y byddai hynny'n digwydd. Afraid dweud bod yr ysbyty wedi'i adeiladu, mae'r ysbyty wedi agor ac nid oes gennym wasanaethau bws i gysylltu'r bobl â'r gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen arnom. Ac mae rhannau o fy etholaeth yn dal heb eu cysylltu â'r adnodd newydd gwych hwnnw. Felly, mae gennych un rhan o'r Llywodraeth yn dweud, 'Byddwn yn buddsoddi mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus ac rydym am i bobl ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, ac rydym am i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus fod yn wasanaeth y bydd pobl yn ei ddewis yn hytrach na'r car preifat', ac mae gennym ran arall o'r Llywodraeth yn darparu cyfleusterau newydd gwych sydd y tu hwnt i gyrraedd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a'r tu hwnt i gyrraedd y bobl sydd angen y gwasanaethau hynny. Ac mae angen cydgysylltu hynny. Mae arnaf ofn nad oes gennyf lawer o amynedd na chydymdeimlad â'r Llywodraeth ar hyn, oherwydd dywedwyd wrthynt amdano a dywedwyd wrthynt amdano bum mlynedd yn ôl. Ac er inni gael nifer o Weinidogion yn gwneud areithiau huawdl iawn - ac rydym yn edrych ymlaen at eich un chi y prynhawn yma, Weinidog - yr hyn na chawsom oedd gwireddu'r polisi ar lawr gwlad, ac o ganlyniad, rwy'n siarad ag etholwyr wythnos ar ôl wythnos am y methiant i ddarparu'r cysylltedd y maent ei angen ac y mae ganddynt hawl i'w ddisgwyl. Rwyf am gloi drwy ddweud hyn: roedd dadreoleiddio bysiau gan Lywodraeth Thatcher yn y 1980au yn drychineb llwyr i bobl dlawd a bregus yn y wlad hon. Roedd yn drychineb llwyr i wasanaethau bysiau ac i gwmnïau bysiau hefyd. Rydym wedi gweld dinistrio gwasanaeth cyhoeddus o ganlyniad i bolisi Llywodraeth, Llywodraeth y DU, ac mae'n iawn ac yn briodol yn awr inni ddefnyddio'r pwerau sydd ar gael inni er mwyn adfer gwasanaethau bysiau fel gwasanaeth cyhoeddus i wasanaethu anghenion pobl. Yr eironi yw, nid yn unig fod y Llywodraeth Dorïaidd, Llywodraeth Thatcher, wedi dinistrio'r gwasanaeth cyhoeddus, fe wnaethant ddinistrio sylfaen y diwydiant ei hun hefyd. Pe bai Darren yn mynd ar Google, byddai'n gwybod nad yw cwmnïau bysiau eu hunain yn gynaliadwy fel y mae pethau. Mae arnom angen gwasanaeth cynaliadwy. Mae arnom angen gwasanaeth sy'n cynnig cysylltedd. Ac mae arnom angen gwasanaeth, fel y dywedwyd yn gynharach, sy'n darparu cyfiawnder cymdeithasol i bobl ledled y wlad hon.