English: Thank you, Llywydd, and I beg to move the motion standing in my name on the agenda. We move from a tax to something that is akin to a tax: the Government's proposal to impose a minimum price for alcohol. Our motion makes two basic points, that a minimum price will have a disproportionate effect upon those at the lower end of the income scale - the poorest people in society - and that it won't actually achieve its stated objective, because the people with the biggest problem with alcohol, of course, are the ones who are least likely to be affected by changes in price. They are addicted to alcohol, and people with an addiction are driven by demons inside, which are not generally susceptible to alteration by changing the price of whatever it is that they consume. Indeed, in the case of controlled drugs, of course, they're not available for sale at all. They're banned and it's a criminal offence to use them, but we have massive drug problems in this country, and in the 1920s, when the United States did the same for alcohol - attempted to prohibit it by law - that created a massive series of social problems and the growth of crime but without actually dealing with the problems of alcoholism itself. I'd like to start by asking how big a problem we actually have with alcohol in Wales. I was interested to read a report by Alcohol Concern that said that, since 2005, the overall amount of alcohol consumed in the UK - unfortunately, I couldn't find figures for Wales - and the proportion of people reporting drinking, and the amount that drinkers report consuming, have all fallen, and this trend is especially pronounced amongst younger drinkers. On the other hand, 77 per cent of the highest earners report drinking in the previous week, compared to 45 per cent of the lowest earners and, of course, the highest earners are the ones who are least likely to respond to changes in price at the lower end of the alcohol market, whereas the 45 per cent of lowest earners are the ones who are going to be targeted by the proposed changes. So, this proposal is introduced at a time when drinking is being moderated by the overwhelming majority of people, and the number of people who actually have a real problem, and create other problems for us in society, is either remaining static or diminishing as well. What's proposed here is going to be a general imposition upon the population at large to try to deal with the problems created by a very small number. So, it's the very opposite of targeted intervention, which is what would be required in order to solve the social problems, which the Government wishes to do. Now, international comparisons are always dangerous, because different societies are very, very different in their history and social composition, and human behaviour differs between countries as well. When the health Secretary came to the Finance Committee to give evidence to us, I asked him if he had any statistics that produce the evidence for any correlation between the price of alcohol and the number of health-related diseases or other medical conditions that were found in those countries, and he said that he wasn't interested in statistics; they were of no value. Well, I think that there is some value in looking at the experience of other countries. You, in the usual arrogant way, dismissed a point that I was trying to make seriously. But I think there is some value in looking at international comparisons to see whether there is any relationship between the price of alcohol and the effects upon health. I've again found it very difficult to discover the statistics that I wanted, but I have found statistics for alcohol-related deaths as a percentage of total mortality. For England and Wales in the period 2006 to 2009, alcohol-related deaths as a percentage of total mortality amounted to 2.3 per cent. Now, that compares with 9.8 per cent in Finland, 3.2 per cent in Sweden, 6.5 per cent in Denmark, all of whom have much, much higher prices for alcohol than we have in the United Kingdom. Countries like Spain and Italy have much, much lower prices of alcohol and there isn't a great deal of difference between their rates of alcohol-related mortality and ours.
Welsh: Diolch ichi, Lywydd, ac rwy'n gwneud y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn fy enw i ar yr agenda. Symudwn oddi wrth dreth at rywbeth sy'n debyg i dreth: bwriad y Llywodraeth i osod isafbris am alcohol. Mae ein cynnig yn gwneud dau bwynt sylfaenol, y bydd isafbris yn effeithio'n anghymesur ar y rhai ar ben isaf y raddfa incwm - y bobl dlotaf mewn cymdeithas - ac na fydd mewn gwirionedd yn cyflawni'r amcan sydd wedi ei ddatgan ar ei gyfer, oherwydd y bobl sydd â'r broblem fwyaf gydag alcohol, wrth gwrs, yw'r rhai sydd leiaf tebygol o gael eu heffeithio gan newidiadau yn y pris. Maent yn gaeth i alcohol, a chaiff pobl sy'n gaeth eu gyrru gan y drwg oddi mewn, nad yw fel arfer yn agored i newid drwy newid pris beth bynnag y maent yn ei ddefnyddio. Yn wir, yn achos cyffuriau a reolir, wrth gwrs, nid ydynt ar gael i'w gwerthu o gwbl. Maent wedi eu gwahardd ac mae'n drosedd i'w defnyddio, ond mae gennym broblemau cyffuriau enfawr yn y wlad hon, ac yn y 1920au, pan wnaeth yr Unol Daleithiau yr un fath yn achos alcohol - ceisio ei wahardd drwy gyfraith - creodd hynny gyfres anferth o broblemau cymdeithasol a chynnydd mewn troseddau heb fynd i'r afael â phroblemau alcoholiaeth ei hun mewn gwirionedd. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ofyn faint o broblem sydd gennym gydag alcohol yng Nghymru mewn gwirionedd. Roedd yn ddiddorol darllen adroddiad gan Alcohol Concern a ddywedai, ers 2005, fod cyfanswm cyffredinol yr alcohol a yfwyd yn y DU - yn anffodus, ni allwn ddod o hyd i ffigurau ar gyfer Cymru - a chyfran y bobl sy'n dweud eu bod yn yfed, a'r swm y mae yfwyr yn dweud eu bod yn ei yfed wedi gostwng, ac mae'r duedd hon yn amlwg iawn ymhlith yfwyr iau. Ar y llaw arall, nododd 77 y cant o'r rhai sy'n ennill fwyaf eu bod wedi yfed yn ystod yr wythnos flaenorol, o gymharu â 45 y cant o'r rhai sy'n ennill leiaf ac wrth gwrs, y rhai sy'n ennill fwyaf yw'r rhai sydd leiaf tebygol o ymateb i newidiadau yn y pris ar ben isaf y farchnad alcohol, ond y 45 y cant o'r rhai sy'n ennill leiaf yw'r rhai sy'n mynd i gael eu targedu gan y newidiadau arfaethedig. Felly, caiff y cynnig hwn ei gyflwyno ar adeg pan fo yfed yn cael ei gymedroli gan y mwyafrif llethol o bobl, ac mae nifer y bobl sydd â phroblem go iawn mewn gwirionedd ac sy'n creu problemau eraill i ni yn y gymdeithas, naill ai'n aros yn yr unfan neu'n gostwng yn ogystal. Mae'r hyn a gynigir yma yn mynd i osod rhwystr cyffredinol ar y boblogaeth i gyd er mwyn ceisio ymdrin â'r problemau a achoswyd gan nifer fach iawn. Felly, mae'n gwbl groes i ymyriad wedi'i dargedu, sef yr hyn y byddai ei angen er mwyn datrys y problemau cymdeithasol, fel y mae'r Llywodraeth yn dymuno ei wneud. Nawr, mae cymariaethau rhyngwladol bob amser yn beryglus, oherwydd mae cymdeithasau gwahanol yn wahanol iawn o ran eu hanes a'u cyfansoddiad cymdeithasol, ac mae ymddygiad dynol yn gwahaniaethu rhwng gwledydd yn ogystal. Pan ddaeth yr Ysgrifennydd iechyd i'r Pwyllgor Cyllid i roi tystiolaeth i ni, gofynnais iddo a oedd ganddo unrhyw ystadegau sy'n cynhyrchu'r dystiolaeth ar gyfer unrhyw gydberthynas rhwng pris alcohol a nifer y clefydau sy'n ymwneud ag iechyd neu gyflyrau meddygol eraill a welwyd yn y gwledydd hynny, a dywedodd nad oedd ganddo ddiddordeb mewn ystadegau; nid oeddent o unrhyw werth. Wel, credaf fod rhywfaint o werth mewn edrych ar brofiad gwledydd eraill. Fe wnaethoch chi, yn y modd trahaus arferol, wrthod pwynt yr oeddwn yn ceisio bod o ddifrif yn ei gylch. Ond credaf fod gwerth mewn edrych ar gymariaethau rhyngwladol i weld a oes unrhyw berthynas rhwng pris alcohol ac effeithiau ar iechyd. Unwaith eto, rwyf wedi'i chael hi'n anodd iawn dod o hyd i'r ystadegau yr oeddwn eu heisiau, ond rwyf wedi canfod ystadegau ar gyfer nifer y marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig ag alcohol fel canran o gyfanswm y marwolaethau. Ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr yn y cyfnod rhwng 2006 a 2009, roedd y marwolaethau a oedd yn gysylltiedig ag alcohol fel canran o gyfanswm y marwolaethau yn 2.3 y cant. Nawr, mae hynny'n cymharu â 9.8 y cant yn y Ffindir, 3.2 y cant yn Sweden, 6.5 y cant yn Nenmarc, ac mae pob un ohonynt yn codi prisiau llawer iawn uwch am alcohol nag a wnawn ni yn y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae gwledydd fel Sbaen a'r Eidal yn codi prisiau is o lawer am alcohol ac nid oes llawer iawn o wahaniaeth rhwng eu cyfraddau marwolaethau sy'n gysylltiedig ag alcohol a'n cyfraddau ni.