English: I thank the Chair of the committee for his statement. It's good to see that the Counsel General and Brexit Minister is in this place now as well. Also, I thought the statement was very considered actually, and was less partisan and more balanced than the contributions we've heard so far from the floor. Also, I thought, better than what I saw at his committee on Monday, where the future work programme had a section on having a referendum Bill work programme, as if Wales and the UK hadn't already voted to leave, and it was coloured in green for September and October for evidence gathering. [ Interruption. ] This is not a debate; this is a statement, David, and the remarks we heard from you, David Melding, I thought were more suited for a debate than a statement, but this is a statement and I will try and reply appropriately. And then apparently, we're going to have red reporting in November on a referendum Bill. We voted to leave, and to date, you've been very good about that and recognising that we need to leave, David. But it's hardly a surprise, when there's such a consensus on the committee, if that's the contribution from the Conservative benches. What we see about this is, I think, something that just is not a balanced contribution. We've never seen parity with the dollar and to suggest that the early 1980s recession led to parity with the dollar is just so ahistorical and wrong. In the early 1980s recession, we had a $2.40 or $2.45 peak in the sterling/dollar exchange rate. Many blame it for the shutdown of much of heavy industry across Wales. It was a high exchange rate, not a low exchange rate, that was the problem with that recession. It was in 1986-7 that we saw the lows in the currency with the fall in the oil price. You speak about proroguing, but, actually, it's a fairly standard thing in the politics of some other countries with our system. Canada, for instance - you're not aware of the situation in Canada, with Stephen Harper, the Prime Minister there? He prorogued in 2008, and he prorogued again in 2010, and then for three months in 2013 - all to help him get through political - [ Interruption.] But not unprecedented, not unprecedented. [ Interruption.] We will see what your new leader says, David, which I think will drive much of what happens in politics over the next few months. But I think what we're hearing - [ Interruption.] I think that's totally fair, Llywydd. What we have, in terms of this statement and the preparation for 'no deal', I think were very sensible comments, and I agree with what the Chair has said on that. What I would like to say, in terms of looking at the meat sector, we talk a lot about lamb, and I think it's right to do so, because it is a sector that will face some of the toughest challenges if we do exit without a deal. What I wonder, though, is: should much more be done to market lamb within the United Kingdom? I remember the beef war that John Major had, and we actually saw an increase in domestic demand for beef, particularly of prime cuts. If we were to see those difficulties for lamb farmers, surely you should be working to try and say to the majority of voters in the UK who voted to leave, 'Actually, this is one sector that's suffering difficulties, actually - if we buy more Welsh lamb across the UK, it will help to mitigate those difficulties.' And what about the beef sector? We were hearing earlier about Ireland and beef prices falling. Well, yes, because they fear there may be a tariff against their exports into the UK. I hope not as high as we see, in terms of the maximum tariff it could be, but if there were, beef prices here would go up. What are we doing to help Welsh farmers benefit from that, increase their production and mitigate that increase in prices for consumers? The institutional architecture of the UK - the UK Government is not giving it enough attention. It's a lot of other pressures - I know that the Member understands that as well. But I would like to see it do more, and, to the extent that the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament agrees with us, why not work with them on this issue? The only times we seem to work with them is when an anti-Brexit alliance wants to try and stop the result of the referendum, as if Wales voted to remain and wants to leave the UK. That's not the case. But why don't we more constructively work with the Scottish Parliament on the frameworks? [ Interruption.] Why don't you listen to what I'm saying, Lee? I'm talking about these frameworks, and why we've got to co-operate across the UK. If we agree with Scotland, why don't we work with them and try and do something jointly, to get the UK Government's attention, to make sure things are dealt with appropriately in this area? And finally from me, I'd like to associate myself and my party entirely with the latter remarks made by David that people from the European Union and the European Economic Area who are in Wales are welcome, we want them to stay - [ Interruption.] - and that message should go out from across the political spectrum. And when some people heckle, and when some people suggest our party isn't in any other position but that, it is very unhelpful, because it mutes that - [ Interruption.] It mutes - [ Interruption.] It mutes that message.
Welsh: Diolch i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor am ei ddatganiad. Mae'n dda gweld bod y Cwnsler Cyffredinol a'r Gweinidog Brexit yma bellach hefyd. Roeddwn i'n meddwl bod ei ddatganiad yn un ystyriol iawn mewn gwirionedd, ac yn llai pleidiol a mwy cytbwys na'r cyfraniadau a glywsom hyd yma o'r llawr. Hefyd, roedd yn well na'r hyn a welais yn ei bwyllgor ddydd Llun, rwy'n credu, lle'r oedd y flaenraglen waith yn cynnwys adran ar gael blaenraglen waith ar Fil refferendwm, fel pe na bai Cymru a'r DU eisoes wedi pleidleisio dros adael, ac roedd wedi'i lliwio'n wyrdd ar gyfer mis Medi a mis Hydref ar gyfer casglu tystiolaeth. [ Torri ar draws. ] Nid dadl yw hon; datganiad yw hwn, David, ac roeddwn i'n credu bod y sylwadau a glywsom gennych chi, David Melding, yn fwy addas ar gyfer dadl na datganiad, ond datganiad yw hwn ac fe geisiaf ateb yn briodol. Ac yna mae'n debyg, byddwn yn cael adroddiadau coch ym mis Tachwedd ar Fil refferendwm. Pleidleisiasom dros adael, a hyd yma, rydych chi wedi bod yn dda iawn ynglŷn â hynny a chydnabod bod angen i ni adael, David. Ond prin ei fod yn syndod mai dyna'r cyfraniad o feinciau'r Ceidwadwyr, pan fo cymaint o gonsensws ar y pwyllgor. Nid wyf yn credu bod yr hyn a welwn am hyn yn gyfraniad cytbwys. Nid ydym erioed wedi gweld paredd â'r ddoler ac mae awgrymu bod dirwasgiad yr 1980au cynnar wedi arwain at baredd â'r ddoler mor groes i hanes ac anghywir. Yn ystod y dirwasgiad yn yr 1980au cynnar, gwelsom uchafbwynt o $2.40 neu $2.45 yn y gyfradd gyfnewid sterling/doler. Mae llawer yn ei feio am gau llawer o'r diwydiant trwm ledled Cymru. Cyfradd gyfnewid uchel, nid cyfradd gyfnewid isel oedd y broblem gyda'r dirwasgiad hwnnw. Yn 1986-7 y gwelsom yr isafbwyntiau yn yr arian cyfred gyda'r cwymp ym mhris olew. Rydych chi'n siarad am ohirio, ond mewn gwirionedd, mae'n beth eithaf arferol yng ngwleidyddiaeth rhai o'r gwledydd eraill sydd â'n system ni. Canada, er enghraifft - nid ydych yn ymwybodol o'r sefyllfa yng Nghanada, gyda Stephen Harper, y Prif Weinidog yno? Gohiriodd yn 2008, ac fe ohiriodd eto yn 2010, ac yna am dri mis yn 2013 - i gyd i'w helpu i ddod drwy sefyllfa wleidyddol - [ T orri ar draws.] Ond nid yw'n ddigynsail, nid yw'n ddigynsail. [ Torri ar draws.] Cawn weld beth fydd eich arweinydd newydd yn ei ddweud, David, ac rwy'n credu mai dyna fydd yn gyrru llawer o'r hyn sy'n digwydd mewn gwleidyddiaeth dros y misoedd nesaf. Ond rwy'n credu mai'r hyn a glywn - [ Torri ar draws.] Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n hollol deg, Lywydd. Yr hyn sydd gennym, o ran y datganiad hwn a'r paratoi ar gyfer 'dim bargen', yw sylwadau synhwyrol iawn yn fy marn i, a chytunaf â'r hyn y mae'r Cadeirydd wedi'i ddweud am hynny. O ran edrych ar y sector cig, hoffwn ddweud ein bod yn sôn llawer am gig oen, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn iawn i wneud hynny, oherwydd mae'n sector a fydd yn wynebu rhai o'r heriau anoddaf os byddwn yn gadael heb gytundeb. Ond tybed oni ddylid gwneud llawer mwy i farchnata cig oen o fewn y Deyrnas Unedig? Cofiaf y rhyfel cig eidion a gafodd John Major, a gwelsom gynnydd mewn gwirionedd yn y galw domestig am gig eidion, yn enwedig y darnau gorau. Pe baem yn gweld yr anawsterau hynny i ffermwyr cig oen, does bosibl na ddylech fod yn gweithio i geisio dweud wrth y mwyafrif o bleidleiswyr yn y DU a bleidleisiodd dros adael, 'Mewn gwirionedd, dyma un sector sy'n dioddef anawsterau - os prynwn fwy o gig oen Cymru ledled y DU, bydd yn helpu i liniaru'r anawsterau hynny.' A beth am y sector cig eidion? Clywsom yn gynharach am Iwerddon a phrisiau cig eidion yn disgyn. Wel ydynt, oherwydd eu bod yn ofni y gallai fod tariff yn erbyn eu hallforion i mewn i'r DU. Gobeithio na fydd mor uchel ag y gwelwn, o ran y tariff uchaf posibl y gallai fod, ond pe bai mor uchel â hynny, byddai prisiau cig eidion yma'n codi. Beth ydym yn ei wneud i helpu ffermwyr Cymru i elwa o hynny, cynyddu eu cynhyrchiant a lliniaru'r cynnydd hwnnw yn y prisiau i ddefnyddwyr? Nid yw saernïaeth sefydliadol y DU - nid yw Llywodraeth y DU yn rhoi digon o sylw i hyn. Mae'n llawer o bwysau eraill - gwn fod yr Aelod yn deall hynny hefyd. Ond hoffwn eu gweld yn gwneud mwy, ac i'r graddau fod Llywodraeth yr Alban a Senedd yr Alban yn cytuno â ni, beth am weithio gyda hwy ar y mater hwn? Yr unig adegau y mae'n ymddangos ein bod yn gweithio gyda hwy yw pan fo cynghrair gwrth-Brexit am geisio atal canlyniad y refferendwm, fel pe bai Cymru wedi pleidleisio dros aros ac am adael y DU. Nid yw hynny'n wir. Ond pam nad ydym yn gweithio'n fwy adeiladol gyda Senedd yr Alban ar y fframweithiau? [ Torri ar draws.] Pam nad ydych chi'n gwrando ar yr hyn rwy'n ei ddweud, Lee? Rwy'n siarad am y fframweithiau hyn, a pham y mae'n rhaid i ni gydweithio ar draws y DU. Os ydym yn cytuno â'r Alban, beth am i ni weithio gyda hwy a cheisio gwneud rhywbeth ar y cyd, er mwyn cael sylw Llywodraeth y DU, i wneud yn siŵr fod pethau'n cael eu gwneud yn briodol yn y maes hwn? Ac yn olaf gennyf fi, hoffwn gysylltu fy hun a fy mhlaid yn llwyr â'r sylwadau olaf a wnaed gan David fod croeso i bobl o'r Undeb Ewropeaidd a'r Ardal Economaidd Ewropeaidd sydd yng Nghymru, rydym am iddynt aros - [ Torri ar draws.] - a dylai'r neges honno fynd allan o bob rhan o'r sbectrwm gwleidyddol. A phan fydd rhai pobl yn heclo, a phan fydd rhai pobl yn awgrymu bod ein plaid ni'n arddel unrhyw safbwynt arall ond hynny, nid yw'n ddefnyddiol iawn, oherwydd mae'n mygu'r - [ T orri ar draws.] Mae'n mygu - [ T orri ar draws.] Mae'n mygu'r neges honno.