English: Plaid Cymru supports this motion today, as we do accept that there are pragmatic reasons as well as sound budgetary reasons for this legislation. The categorisation of housing associations as public corporations means that they will be treated like public bodies in terms of their accounts, and that, of course, has major implications as borrowing of the housing associations will be counted against the financial ceiling of the Welsh Government. And, in turn, that could have a detrimental impact on the ability of the sector to build houses at the very time when there is a great shortage of social housing, creating a real crisis in many parts of Wales. But - and there is a 'but', and a relatively important 'but' this afternoon - I do have some concerns that deregulation, and this is what we're talking about, deregulation, could lead to some unanticipated outcomes and outcomes that could militate against some of the core principles of housing associations as they currently stand. It's important to bear in mind that housing associations are not a private sector vehicle for generating profits, but a structure to provide services for our most vulnerable people. We have heard today from both the committees - well, we've heard from one of the committees and we'll hear from the other later on - who have had an opportunity to scrutinise the general principles before us today. But my question is that I wonder whether that scrutiny has been too narrow and limited in its scope, bearing in mind that they covered constitutional and financial issues mainly. Now, I believe that we need to take a broader view in order to assuage some of the concerns that I have. I would like to see the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee having an opportunity to scrutinise this issue - not the Bill itself, but to scrutinise what these changes in the light of deregulation could mean for the future of the social housing sector in Wales. There are some questions that we need to seek solutions or answers to. Would deregulation mean a change of strategic priorities for housing associations? Would it mean a greater emphasis on generating profits, and would that mean, for example, that rural areas would lose out? Because we all know that it is cheaper to build large estates in urban areas than it is to build clusters of homes in rural areas, but that sort of development is much needed in our rural areas. Are we going to see less building in rural areas, consequently leading to depopulation and the decline of the Welsh language? We've spoken here about another concern already, which is the loss of accountability and democracy. We talked about the tenant's voice, but the voice of councillors can be clearly heard in management boards at the moment. Now, with the reduction in the percentage, then those voices, the voices of councillors and tenants, may be diluted and, in turn, lead to less accountability, and that brings us back to this idea that management boards could change strategic direction, contrary to what we're trying to achieve in this area. We must bear in mind that the housing stock has been transferred from the hands of local authorities to housing associations in many areas of Wales. One could argue that that move has led to a decline in accountability already. There is concern that the next step that this Bill will lead to could lead to the loss of even greater accountability and to that change of strategic direction that I've mentioned, which could militate against the whole purpose of housing associations. So, I do feel that we must move very carefully from this point, securing amendments that will secure the democratic voice, but also safeguard the core purpose of housing associations: for me, building the right kind of homes for the people who need them - yes, that - but also building them in those places where they are required, not where the market drives those developments. So, we need to be very aware of the risks of deregulation and consider what steps need to be taken to resolve some of the concerns that I've raised today. I would suggest that the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee could make a contribution to that discussion. Thank you.
Welsh: Mae Plaid Cymru yn cefnogi'r cynnig yma heddiw yma gan ein bod ni yn derbyn bod yna resymau cwbl bragmataidd a chyllidol cadarn dros yr angen am y ddeddfwriaeth yma. Mae categoreiddio cymdeithasau tai fel corfforaethau cyhoeddus yn golygu mai fel cyrff cyhoeddus maen nhw'n cael eu trin o safbwynt cyfrifon cyhoeddus, ac mae gan hynny, wrth gwrs, oblygiadau mawr wrth i fenthyciadau gan y cymdeithasau tai gael eu cyfrif yn erbyn nenfwd benthyca Llywodraeth Cymru. Yn ei dro, mi allai hynny gael effaith andwyol ar allu'r sector i adeiladu tai, a hynny ar yr union adeg pan fo prinder dybryd o dai cymdeithasol, sy'n creu argyfwng gwirioneddol mewn sawl rhan o Gymru. Ond - ac mae yna 'ond', ac 'ond' gweddol fawr y prynhawn yma - mae gen i bryderon y gallai dadreoleiddio, a dyna'r ydym ni'n sôn amdano fan hyn, dadreoleiddio, arwain at ganlyniadau sydd ddim wedi cael eu rhagweld yn llawn, a chanlyniadau a allai filwrio yn erbyn rhai o egwyddorion craidd cymdeithasau tai fel y maen nhw ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n bwysig, rydw i'n meddwl, cofio nad cerbyd sector preifat creu elw ydy cymdeithas dai, ond, yn hytrach, strwythur ar gyfer darparu gwasanaethau ar gyfer y bobl fwyaf bregus yn ein cymdeithas ni. Rydym ni wedi clywed heddiw gan ddau bwyllgor sydd - wel, rydym ni wedi clywed gan un, ond yn mynd i glywed gan y llall yn nes ymlaen - wedi cael cyfle i graffu ar yr egwyddorion cyffredinol sydd gerbron heddiw. Ond fy nghwestiwn i ydy: tybed a ydy'r craffu yna wedi bod yn rhy gul ac yn gyfyngedig, o gofio mai materion cyllidol a materion cyfansoddiadol sydd wedi bod o dan sylw yn bennaf. Rydw i'n meddwl bod angen golwg ehangach er mwyn tawelu rhai o'r pryderon sydd gen i. Buaswn i yn licio gweld y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau yn cael cyfle i graffu ar y mater yma - nid y Bil ei hun, ond craffu ar beth allai'r newidiadau yn sgil dadreoleiddio, beth allai hynny, golygu i ddyfodol y sector tai cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Mae yna rai cwestiynau mae angen inni chwilio atebion ar eu cyfer nhw. A fydd dadreoleiddio yn golygu newid mewn blaenoriaethau strategol gan gymdeithasau tai? A fydd o'n golygu mwy o bwyslais ar greu elw, ac a fydd hynny yn golygu, er enghraifft, fod ardaloedd gwledig yn colli allan? Achos rydym ni i gyd yn gwybod ei bod yn rhatach i adeiladu ystadau mawr mewn ardaloedd trefol nag ydy hi i adeiladu clystyrau o dai mewn ardaloedd gwledig, ond mae mawr angen y math yna o dai mewn ardaloedd gwledig. A ydym ni'n mynd i weld llai o adeiladu mewn ardaloedd gwledig, a hynny wedyn yn cyfrannu at all-boblogi a dirywiad yr iaith Gymraeg? Rydym ni wedi sôn yn fan hyn am y pryder arall yn barod, sef colli atebolrwydd a democratiaeth. Rydym ni wedi sôn am lais y tenantiaid, ond mae llais cynghorwyr i'w glywed yn glir mewn byrddau rheoli ar hyn o bryd. Gyda gostyngiad yn y ganran, mae perig i'r lleisiau yma - lleisiau cynghorwyr a lleisiau tenantiaid - gael llai o ddylanwad, ac, yn ei dro, arwain at lai o atebolrwydd, ac, efallai, rydym ni'n ôl eto at y syniad yma y gall y byrddau rheoli newid cyfeiriad strategol, yn groes i'r hyn yr ydym ni'n ceisio ei gyflawni yn y maes yma. Rhaid inni gofio bod y stoc tai wedi cael ei drosglwyddo o ddwylo cynghorau lleol i ddwylo cymdeithasau tai mewn sawl achos ar draws Cymru. Fe ellid dadlau bod y symudiad hwnnw wedi arwain at bellhau atebolrwydd yn barod. Mae yna bryder y gall y cam nesaf sydd o dan sylw'r Bil yma arwain at golli hyd yn oed mwy o atebolrwydd ac at y newid cyfeiriad strategol a allai weithio yn erbyn holl bwrpas cymdeithasau tai. Felly, rydw i'n teimlo bod yn rhaid inni symud yn ofalus iawn o'r cam yma, gan sicrhau gwelliannau a fydd yn cryfhau'r llais democrataidd, ond hefyd yn diogelu pwrpas craidd y cymdeithasau tai: i mi, adeiladu'r math cywir o dai ar gyfer y bobl sydd eu hangen - ie, hynny - ond hefyd eu hadeiladu nhw yn y llefydd lle mae eu hangen nhw, nid lle mae'r farchnad yn gyrru'r datblygiadau. Felly, mae eisiau bod yn gwbl effro i beryglon dadreoleiddio ac ystyried pa gamau sydd eu hangen i ateb rhai o'r pryderon yr ydw i wedi'u codi heddiw. Rydw i'n awgrymu y byddai'r Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb, Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau yn gallu cyfrannu at y drafodaeth yna. Diolch.