English: I very much welcome this debate. I think that planning is something that impinges on everybody's lives and I've actually seen petitions coming in where more people have signed the petition in a council area than voted in the previous council election. It really does - it's an issue that gets to people. I don't think that anybody who's sat as a councillor would not be able to tell you of the literally hundreds of letters they've had, and petitions, opposing a planning development somewhere or other. Of course, until 1948, or 1 July 1948, you could build what you liked where you liked as long as you owned the land. And that was a major success. I often speak very highly of the 1945-51 Labour Government, but that was another one of its successes - one of the ones that is less heralded but probably has had as much of an effect on people's lives as anything apart from the health service - when owners could just build what they liked where they liked as long as they owned the land. We've got to remember there's still land today that had use prior to 1948 where that right still exists, it hasn't been extinguished, and every time the local development plan or the old county plan goes there, they keep that in. There was land in Swansea East that was designated for coal duff pre 1948, and they kept that planning permission until the 1990s and it was only extinguished when the land was used for housing development. I recognise that high-quality, well-designed developments and places are essential to the long-term health and well-being of the people of Wales, but we also need transportation. There are estates built continually - and I can think of one in Rebecca Evans's constituency, I can think of one in my own - that are almost isolated in terms of public transport. If you haven't got a car, you're in trouble. We need homes to be built. We need industrial and commercial development. Can I just praise something the Welsh Government did well before I came here, which was the Swansea Vale development, which was a Welsh Development Agency and Swansea council development where housing, commercial and industrial development have been built in the same area very successfully? If you drive through it, you probably wouldn't know about some of the industrial development and commercial development because they're down little side streets and they are all well covered with trees to such an extent that, unless you know where you're going, you wouldn't know what was down there. Of course, we have the major planning dichotomy: local residents oppose a development; the landowner wants the development - the land is going to make people large sums of money. The planning committee decides. If it ended there, residents would generally be happy. While other local government decisions can go to the ombudsman, can go to judicial review, planning decisions have this intermediate step. I've never understood why we need this intermediate step of a planning inspector. They come in, they make decisions, they don't know the area - they make decisions that are quite often baffling. They allow developments that cause serious problems. They don't have to come again. They don't have to live with the problems they've created. A little problem in the ward I used to represent - a single house was knocked down and it had enough room for two houses. They built three. The three houses have never been sold. So, I think it really is very important that we do have decisions made locally. I would abolish planning inspectors tomorrow if it was up to me. There's no rhyme or reason for them, and I don't know anybody who would actually - [ Interruption.] - actually can argue why is that. They're an intermediate step, which - judicial review, if you don't like it. As a county councillor, like others here, I was involved in creating a county structure plan that designated land for different uses. The district councils then produced district plans, similar to the current local development plans. Areas could be designated across the county for housing, but others could be designated for forestry or mining at that time. So, you designated areas so you knew what was happening in each area. Individual councils are too small; the county councils were, in many respects, too small for making decisions on that regional basis. That's why I support decisions made on the city regions and north and west Wales regions because that would mean that we have this integration. This isn't something that Alun Davies wants to merge, actually, but a development at Trostre had a serious effect on retail in Swansea - [ Interruption.] - a serious problem with retail in Swansea. So, I think it really is important. Can I just turn to Plaid Cymru on their view? I think it really is important that the Welsh language is treated exactly the same as the environment and, instead of technical advice notes, we have a language impact assessment, in the same way as you have an environmental impact assessment. I would hope that that is something that people would look at. See how the language - . There's a difference between building 200 houses in Caernarfon and building 200 houses in Chepstow in the sense of the effect it has on the language. I know what Caernarfon's like. I've spent a substantial amount of time there, and it's one of the places where Welsh is spoken by so many people that it becomes the natural language of the community. I speak Welsh most of the time when I'm in Caernarfon, because it's the language of the community. I think, when you've got 75 per cent to 80 per cent of the population speaking the language, it becomes the community language. When you've got under 50 per cent, you know that the chances are that, when you speak to somebody, they won't speak Welsh so people don't go ahead with it. And I'd just finally say that I'd love to hear an argument for why we need planning inspectors - why judicial review and the ombudsman, which is good enough for every other decision made by local authorities, isn't good enough for planning.
Welsh: Rwy'n croesawu'r ddadl hon yn fawr. Rwy'n credu bod cynllunio yn rhywbeth sy'n cyffwrdd bywydau pawb ac rwyf wedi gweld deisebau yn cael eu cyflwyno, mewn gwirionedd, pan fo mwy o bobl wedi llofnodi'r ddeiseb mewn ardal cyngor nag a bleidleisiodd yn yr etholiad cyngor blaenorol. Mae'n wir - mae'n broblem sy'n effeithio ar bobl. Dydw i ddim yn credu y byddai neb sydd wedi eistedd fel cynghorydd na fyddai'n gallu dweud wrthych chi am y cannoedd o lythyrau y maent wedi eu cael, a'r deisebau, yn gwrthwynebu datblygiad cynllunio yn rhywle neu'i gilydd. Wrth gwrs, tan 1948, neu 1 Gorffennaf 1948, gallech chi adeiladu beth bynnag y mynnech chi lle bynnag y mynnech chi cyhyd â'ch bod yn berchen ar y tir. Ac roedd yn llwyddiant mawr. Rwy'n aml yn canmol Llywodraeth Lafur 1945-51, ond roedd hynny yn un arall o'i llwyddiannau - un o'r rhai y sonnir llai amdano ond sydd yn ôl pob tebyg wedi cael cymaint o effaith ar fywydau pobl ag unrhyw beth ar wahân i'r gwasanaeth iechyd - pan allai perchnogion adeiladu beth bynnag a fynnent lle bynnag y mynnent cyhyd â'u bod yn berchen ar y tir. Mae'n rhaid inni gofio bod tir yn dal i fodoli heddiw a oedd mewn defnydd ers cyn 1948 lle mae'r hawl honno yn dal i fodoli, nid yw wedi cael ei diddymu, a bob tro yr aiff y cynllun datblygu lleol neu'r hen gynllun sirol yno, maen nhw'n cadw hwnnw ynddo. Roedd yna dir yn Nwyrain Abertawe a ddynodwyd ar gyfer glo mân cyn 1948, a chadwyd y caniatâd cynllunio hwnnw'n tan y 1990au a chafodd ond ei ddiddymu pan ddefnyddiwyd y tir ar gyfer datblygiad tai. Rwy'n cydnabod bod datblygiadau a lleoedd o ansawdd uchel, sydd wedi'u cynllunio'n dda, yn hanfodol i iechyd a lles hirdymor pobl Cymru. Ond mae angen trafnidiaeth arnom ni hefyd. Mae ystadau yn cael eu codi'n barhaus - a gallaf feddwl am un yn etholaeth Rebecca Evans, gallaf feddwl am un yn fy un i - sydd wedi'u hynysu bron o ran trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Os nad oes gennych chi gar, rydych chi mewn trafferthion. Mae angen i gartrefi gael eu hadeiladu. Mae angen datblygiadau diwydiannol a masnachol arnom ni. A gaf i ganmol rhywbeth y gwnaeth Llywodraeth Cymru yn dda cyn i mi ddod yma, sef datblygiad Bro Abertawe, a oedd yn ddatblygiad gan Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru a chyngor Abertawe lle mae tai a datblygiadau diwydiannol a masnachol wedi cael eu hadeiladu yn yr un ardal yn llwyddiannus iawn? Os byddwch chi'n gyrru drwyddo, mae'n debyg na fyddech chi'n gwybod am rai o'r datblygiadau diwydiannol a datblygiad masnachol oherwydd maen nhw i lawr strydoedd ochr bach ac maen nhw wedi'u gorchuddio â choed i'r fath raddau na fyddech chi'n gwybod beth oedd i lawr yno, oni bai eich bod yn gwybod ble'r ydych chi'n mynd. Wrth gwrs, mae gennym ni y ddeuoliaeth cynllunio mawr: mae trigolion lleol yn gwrthwynebu datblygiad; mae'r tirfeddiannwr eisiau'r datblygiad - mae'r tir yn mynd i wneud symiau mawr o arian i bobl. Mae'r pwyllgor cynllunio yn penderfynu. Pe byddai'n dod i ben yn y fan honno, byddai'r trigolion yn gyffredinol yn hapus. Er y gall penderfyniadau llywodraeth leol eraill fynd at yr ombwdsmon, gallan nhw fynd i adolygiad barnwrol, mae gan benderfyniadau cynllunio y cam canolraddol hwn. Dydw i erioed wedi deall pam mae angen y cam canolraddol hwn, sef arolygwr cynllunio. Maen nhw'n dod, maen nhw'n gwneud penderfyniadau, dydyn nhw ddim yn adnabod yr ardal - maen nhw'n gwneud penderfyniadau sydd yn aml yn annealladwy. Maen nhw'n caniatáu datblygiadau sy'n achosi problemau difrifol. Does dim rhaid iddyn nhw ddod eto. Does dim rhaid iddyn nhw fyw gyda phroblemau y maen nhw wedi'u creu. Problem fach yn y ward yr oeddwn i'n ei chynrychioli - cafodd un tŷ ei ddymchwel ac roedd digon o le yno ar gyfer dau dŷ. Adeiladwyd tri. Ni werthwyd y tri thŷ erioed. Felly, rwy'n credu ei bod yn wirioneddol bwysig bod gennym ni benderfyniadau yn cael eu gwneud yn lleol. Byddwn i'n dileu'r arolygwyr cynllunio yfory pe byddwn i'n cael dewis. Does dim synnwyr na rheswm iddyn nhw, a dydw i ddim yn adnabod unrhyw un a fyddai mewn gwirionedd - [ Torri ar draws.] - yn gallu dadlau mewn gwirionedd pam. Maen nhw'n gam canolraddol, ac - adolygiad barnwrol, os nad ydych chi'n ei hoffi. Fel cynghorydd sir, fel eraill yn y fan yma, roeddwn i'n ymwneud â chreu cynllun strwythur sirol a oedd yn dynodi tir ar gyfer defnyddiau gwahanol. Roedd y cynghorau dosbarth, wedyn, yn cynhyrchu cynlluniau dosbarth, yn debyg i'r cynlluniau datblygu lleol presennol. Gallai ardaloedd gael eu dynodi, ledled y sir ar gyfer tai, ond gallai rhai eraill gael eu dynodi ar gyfer coedwigaeth neu fwyngloddio ar y pryd. Felly, roeddech chi'n dynodi ardaloedd fel eich bod yn gwybod beth oedd yn digwydd ym mhob ardal. Mae cynghorau unigol yn rhy fach; roedd y cynghorau sir, mewn sawl ffordd, yn rhy fach ar gyfer gwneud penderfyniadau ar y sail ranbarthol honno. Dyna pam yr wyf i'n cefnogi'r penderfyniadau a wnaed ar y dinas-ranbarthau a rhanbarthau gogledd a gorllewin Cymru, oherwydd byddai hynny'n golygu bod yn rhaid inni gael yr integreiddio hwn. Nid rhywbeth y mae Alun Davies eisiau ei uno yw hwn, mewn gwirionedd, ond cafodd datblygiad yn Nhrostre effaith ddifrifol ar fanwerthu yn Abertawe - [ Torri ar draws.] - problem ddifrifol â manwerthu yn Abertawe. Rwy'n credu felly, ei fod yn wirioneddol bwysig. A gaf i droi at Blaid Cymru a'u barn nhw? Rwy'n credu ei bod yn wirioneddol bwysig bod yr iaith Gymraeg yn cael ei thrin yn union yr un fath â'r amgylchedd ac, yn lle nodiadau cyngor technegol, bod gennym ni asesiad effaith iaith, yn yr un ffordd â'r asesiad effaith amgylcheddol. Byddwn yn gobeithio bod hynny'n rhywbeth y byddai pobl yn ei ystyried. Edrychwch sut mae'r iaith - . Mae yna wahaniaeth rhwng adeilad 200 o dai yng Nghaernarfon ac adeiladu 200 o dai yng Nghas-gwent o ran yr effaith y mae'n ei chael ar yr iaith. Rwy'n gwybod sut le yw Caernarfon. Rwyf wedi treulio cryn dipyn o amser yno, ac mae'n un o'r lleoedd lle caiff y Gymraeg ei siarad gan gynifer o bobl fel ei bod yn dod yn iaith naturiol y gymuned. Rwyf i'n siarad Cymraeg y rhan fwyaf o'r amser pan wyf yng Nghaernarfon, gan mai dyna iaith y gymuned. Rwy'n credu, pan fo gennych chi 75 y cant i 80 y cant o'r boblogaeth yn siarad yr iaith, mae'n dod yn iaith y gymuned. Pan fo gennych chi dan 50 y cant, rydych chi'n gwybod, yn ôl pob tebyg, pan fyddwch chi'n siarad â rhywun, na fydd yn siarad Cymraeg felly dyw pobl ddim yn gwneud hynny. Ac yn olaf byddwn i'n dweud y byddwn i wrth fy modd yn clywed dadl dros pam mae angen arolygwyr cynllunio - pam nad yw adolygiad barnwrol a'r ombwdsmon, sy'n ddigon da ar gyfer pob penderfyniad arall a wneir gan awdurdodau lleol, yn ddigon da ar gyfer cynllunio.