English: Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'll respond to this debate on behalf of my colleague Adam Price, who's one of the persons named in tabling it. I'd like to begin, of course, by thanking all Members for taking part in what has been, I think, a very moving debate. It is not always appropriate for politicians to bring our personal experiences to bear on our politics, but sometimes it very much is, and that was very much the case today. Before I respond to anything that other Members have said, I'd like to thank Dai Lloyd for his contribution. It was very moving, and I also think inspiring. I'm very grateful to you, Dai, for that. Lynne set out a very powerful case for improvement in services, and set out the inconsistency that families too often have to bear. But Members across the Chamber who've participated have also highlighted that there is some very good practice, and the important thing, I think, is to learn from that. Jayne Bryant's comments about some of the excellent services provided by the third sector, some of the services that are led by the parents - they're very valuable and very important. Lynne talked about the silence that often surrounds these issues, and other Members have mentioned that. It can be very difficult. Often a miscarriage, for example, is treated as if it isn't a real loss, as if it isn't really a bereavement. But of course, to those parents, that is a real child, of course it is. I think Members have also highlighted - Lynne particularly - the need to provide services for fathers as well as for mothers. Too often, still, no bereavement support is offered, but when it is, too often it is only offered to the mother as if the father has not suffered a loss, and it's very important that we ensure that the loss for both parents and indeed family members and, as others have mentioned, siblings too who can be affected by the loss of a baby - that that is all acknowledged. I'm grateful to Caroline for making the points about the need for specialist services for women suffering from recurrent miscarriages. The idea that you can simply say to a couple, 'Well, there's some sort of incompatibility here, and you will never be parents and you just have to accept it' is something that I think, in Wales in the twenty-first century, none of us would want to tolerate. I also think the points about further and better training for staff are very well made. I'm grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for his response and appreciate what he set out in terms of the work that is being done, but I think the evidence that has been presented today, the evidence from the charities that have formed part of the alliance for Baby Loss Awareness Week - and I would briefly wish to thank those organisations for coming together so effectively to help raise these very important and very difficult issues, and I'm certainly looking forward to participating in some of those commemorations with families that Jayne and Lynne and others have mentioned that will take place next week - . But I'm sure that the Cabinet Secretary would agree that there is no room for complacency here. I'm very glad to hear him tell us that, through the maternity networks, all services will now have an identified bereavement pathway. I wasn't quite clear from his remarks how long those pathways have been in place. If it's very new, then I think we can look forward, as he said, to hearing an update on how well those services are being delivered. But we do know that there can be a gap between national policy and delivery on the ground, and I'm sure that none of us in this Chamber will tolerate such a gap around such a sensitive issue. No mother, no father losing a child in Wales should be left alone to deal with that. And we know that that still happens now. Many of us in this Chamber will have family experience. I think we tend to think sometimes of the loss of a baby as something rare. As Lynne and others have pointed out, in fact, that is not the case, and those early days are the most dangerous time for any child in Wales. So, in conclusion, Deputy Presiding Officer, to repeat my thanks to everybody who's contributed, to thank all those who have spoken out, particularly parents and families who've shared with us the challenges that they faced, to say a huge thank you to all the wonderful people who do provide excellent services, but to say that I look forward to the update from the Cabinet Secretary about the actual delivery of proper psychological counselling services for families everywhere in Wales who experience this, if this is what they want. If one family is left alone in this experience in our health services in Wales, that is one family too many, and that we cannot tolerate. Diolch yn fawr.
Welsh: Diolch ichi, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Fe ymatebaf i'r ddadl hon ar ran fy nghyd-Aelod, Adam Price, sy'n un o'r enwau a'i cyflwynodd. Hoffwn ddechrau, wrth gwrs, drwy ddiolch i bob Aelod am gymryd rhan yn yr hyn a fu, rwy'n credu, yn ddadl deimladwy iawn. Nid yw bob amser yn briodol i wleidyddion ddod â'n profiadau personol i ddylanwadu ar ein gwleidyddiaeth, ond weithiau mae'n briodol iawn inni wneud hynny, ac roedd hynny'n arbennig o wir heddiw. Cyn imi ymateb i unrhyw beth a ddywedodd yr Aelodau eraill, hoffwn ddiolch i Dai Lloyd am ei gyfraniad. Roedd yn ysgytwol iawn, ac yn ysbrydoli hefyd yn fy marn i. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i chi am hynny, Dai. Gwnaeth Lynne achos pwerus iawn dros wella gwasanaethau, a nododd yr anghysondeb y mae teuluoedd yn gorfod ei ddioddef yn rhy aml. Ond mae'r Aelodau ar draws y Siambr sydd wedi cymryd rhan hefyd wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod rhai arferion da iawn yn digwydd, a'r peth pwysig, rwy'n meddwl, yw dysgu o hynny. Mae sylwadau Jayne Bryant am rai o'r gwasanaethau ardderchog a ddarperir gan y trydydd sector, rhai o'r gwasanaethau sy'n cael eu harwain gan y rhieni, yn werthfawr iawn ac yn bwysig iawn. Soniodd Lynne am y distawrwydd a geir yn aml ynghylch y materion hyn, ac mae Aelodau eraill wedi sôn am hynny. Gall fod yn anodd iawn. Yn aml er enghraifft, caiff camesgoriad ei drin fel pe na bai'n golled go iawn, fel pe na bai'n brofedigaeth mewn gwirionedd. Ond wrth gwrs, i'r rhieni hynny, mae'n blentyn go iawn, wrth gwrs ei fod. Credaf fod yr Aelodau wedi tynnu sylw hefyd - Lynne yn arbennig - at yr angen i ddarparu gwasanaethau ar gyfer tadau yn ogystal ag ar gyfer mamau. Yn rhy aml o hyd, ni chynigir unrhyw gefnogaeth profedigaeth, ond pan gaiff ei gynnig, i'r fam yn unig y caiff ei gynnig yn rhy aml fel pe na bai'r tad wedi dioddef colled, ac mae'n bwysig iawn inni sicrhau bod y golled i'r ddau riant ac i aelodau o'r teulu yn wir, ac fel y soniodd eraill, i frodyr a chwiorydd yr effeithir arnynt hefyd yn sgil colli baban, yn cael ei chydnabod. Rwy'n ddiolchgar i Caroline am wneud y pwyntiau am yr angen am wasanaethau arbenigol ar gyfer menywod sy'n dioddef sawl camesgoriad. Mae'r syniad y gallwch ddweud wrth bâr, 'Wel, mae rhyw fath o anghymarusrwydd yma, ac ni fyddwch chi byth yn rhieni ac mae'n rhaid i chi dderbyn hynny' yn rhywbeth y credaf na fyddai neb ohonom am ei oddef yng Nghymru yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain. Credaf hefyd fod y pwyntiau ynglŷn â hyfforddiant pellach a gwell ar gyfer staff yn rhai da iawn. Rwy'n ddiolchgar i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am ei ymateb ac yn gwerthfawrogi'r hyn a nododd o ran y gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud, ond rwy'n credu bod y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd heddiw, y dystiolaeth gan yr elusennau a oedd yn rhan o'r gynghrair ar gyfer Wythnos Ymwybyddiaeth Colli Babanod - ac yn fyr, hoffwn ddiolch i'r sefydliadau hynny am ddod at ei gilydd mor effeithiol i helpu i godi'r materion pwysig a hynod o anodd hyn, ac rwy'n sicr yn edrych ymlaen at gymryd rhan yn rhai o'r digwyddiadau coffáu hynny gyda theuluoedd a fydd yn digwydd yr wythnos nesaf fel y soniodd Jayne a Lynne ac eraill - . Ond rwy'n siŵr y byddai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn cytuno nad oes lle i laesu dwylo yma. Rwy'n falch iawn o'i glywed yn dweud wrthym y bydd gan bob gwasanaeth, drwy'r rhwydweithiau mamolaeth, lwybr profedigaeth dynodedig bellach. Nid oeddwn yn hollol glir o'i sylwadau am ba hyd y bu'r llwybrau hyn ar waith. Os yw'n newydd iawn, credaf y gallwn edrych ymlaen, fel y dywedodd, at glywed y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ba mor dda y caiff y gwasanaethau hynny eu darparu. Ond rydym yn gwybod y gall fod bwlch rhwng polisi cenedlaethol a darpariaeth ar lawr gwlad, ac rwy'n siŵr na fydd yr un ohonom yn y Siambr hon yn goddef bwlch o'r fath mewn perthynas â mater mor sensitif. Ni ddylid gadael unrhyw fam, unrhyw dad sy'n colli plentyn yng Nghymru i ymdopi â hynny eu hunain. A gwyddom fod hynny'n dal i ddigwydd yn awr. Bydd llawer ohonom yn y Siambr wedi cael profiad teuluol o hyn. Credaf ein bod yn tueddu weithiau i feddwl am golli baban fel rhywbeth anghyffredin. Fel y mae Lynne ac eraill wedi nodi, nid yw hynny'n wir mewn gwirionedd, a'r dyddiau cyntaf hynny yw'r amser mwyaf peryglus i unrhyw blentyn yng Nghymru. Felly, i gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, hoffwn ailadrodd fy niolch i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu, diolch i bawb sydd wedi siarad am eu profiadau, yn enwedig rhieni a theuluoedd sydd wedi rhannu'r heriau a wynebwyd ganddynt gyda ni, diolch yn fawr i'r holl bobl wych sy'n darparu gwasanaethau rhagorol, a dweud fy mod yn edrych ymlaen at gael y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet ynglŷn â'r modd y caiff gwasanaethau cwnsela seicolegol priodol eu darparu ar gyfer teuluoedd ym mhobman yng Nghymru sy'n cael profiad o hyn, os mai dyna maent ei eisiau. Os gadewir un teulu i ymdopi â'r profiad hwn ar eu pen eu hunain yn ein gwasanaethau iechyd yng Nghymru, bydd yn un teulu'n ormod, ac ni ellir goddef hynny. Diolch yn fawr.