English: Broadly speaking, I welcome what the Finance Secretary is doing in these regulations. I support the devolution of taxes to Wales because I see it as one way in which we can make Wales more competitive and attractive for people to come and live and work here. If the taxes are used in a sensible way, then they can help to boost the size of the Welsh economy and the tax base that that brings about. When we look at the rates and bands that the Finance Secretary has chosen, broadly speaking, I think this is an improvement. Ninety per cent of people will either pay the same or less under the Welsh rates and bands compared with what they would do under the UK bands, which is a very good thing. But stamp duties themselves on property are a very bad tax, generally speaking, because, fundamentally, it's a tax upon moving house. It reduces labour mobility and it ends up with, particularly older people, in effect, being imprisoned in their own houses because they don't want to pay the costs of moving, which is a bad thing because we need more houses and we need to occupy the properties that we have more intensively. The evidence from England is that stamp duty rates at their current levels will probably reduce people moving around by as much as a third. Of course, Welsh property prices are far less than in England, so it may be that this competitive advantage will disguise some of these features. We're expecting a bit of a property boom in south-east Wales as a result of the abolition of tolls on the Severn bridge. Property here, on this side of the Severn, is, of course, a lot less than on the other side. So, it probably will produce a windfall for the Welsh Treasury, and I therefore fully understand why the Finance Secretary has introduced the higher rate bands. But, broadly speaking, I'm in favour of taxes that are lower than in England in Wales, both in absolute terms as well as in relative terms. It's a pity, I think, that the stamp duty rates at these high levels are likely to act as an inhibitor of the economy in future. It may be to a very small extent, because we don't have that many properties in the very high levels of these bands. The average house price in Wales is, I believe, £150,000, and, for the average buyer, they'll be paying £500 less, I believe, under these rates, than they would have been otherwise. So, that is a good thing. But I would make a plea for the future that, where we do have devolved taxes, we should use them as levers of improvements in the economy to encourage people to come to Wales, because it is the poorest part of the United Kingdom and we need every bit of assistance that we can from the tax system to try to correct the problems that have been inherited from the past. I should say that, although we have called for a division on this, that is only so that we can abstain, so that - . Because I'm in favour of the reductions in the imposition, but we're against the increases. But we don't see, on balance, that this is a bad thing and, therefore, we're going to abstain rather than vote against the motions.
Welsh: A siarad yn gyffredinol, rwy'n croesawu'r hyn y mae'r Ysgrifennydd Cyllid yn ei wneud yn y Rheoliadau hyn. Rwy'n cefnogi datganoli trethi i Gymru oherwydd rwy'n ei weld fel un ffordd y gallwn wneud Cymru'n fwy cystadleuol a deniadol i bobl ddod i fyw a gweithio yma. Os defnyddir y trethi mewn ffordd synhwyrol, gall helpu i roi hwb i faint economi Cymru a sail y dreth a ddaw yn ei sgil. Wrth inni edrych ar y cyfraddau a'r bandiau y mae'r Ysgrifennydd Cyllid wedi'u dewis, a siarad yn gyffredinol, credaf fod hyn yn welliant. Bydd naw deg y cant o bobl naill ai yn talu'r un faint neu lai o dan fandiau a chyfraddau Cymru o'i gymharu â beth y bydden nhw'n ei wneud o dan fandiau'r DU, sy'n beth da iawn. Ond mae'r dreth stamp ei hun ar eiddo yn dreth wael iawn, a siarad yn gyffredinol, oherwydd, yn y bôn, mae'n dreth ar symud tŷ. Mae'n lleihau symudedd llafur ac yn y pen draw, mae'n golygu bod pobl yn cael eu carcharu yn eu tai eu hunain, pobl hŷn yn arbennig, i bob pwrpas, oherwydd nad ydyn nhw eisiau talu costau symud, sy'n beth drwg gan fod angen mwy o dai arnom ni ac mae angen inni feddiannu'r eiddo sydd gennym yn fwy dwys. Y dystiolaeth o Loegr yw y bydd cyfraddau'r dreth stamp ar eu lefelau presennol fwy na thebyg yn lleihau niferoedd y bobl sy'n symud o gwmpas gan gymaint â thraean. Wrth gwrs, mae prisiau eiddo Cymru lawer yn is nag yn Lloegr, felly mae'n bosibl y bydd y fantais gystadleuol hon yn cuddio rhai o'r nodweddion hyn. Rydyn ni'n disgwyl ychydig o ymchwydd eiddo yn y de-ddwyrain o ganlyniad i ddiddymu'r tollau ar bont Hafren. Mae eiddo yma, ar yr ochr hon o afon Hafren, wrth gwrs, lawer llai nag ar yr ochr arall. Felly, mae'n debyg y bydd yn cynhyrchu arian annisgwyl ar gyfer Trysorlys Cymru, ac felly rwy'n deall yn llwyr pam y cyflwynodd yr Ysgrifennydd Cyllid y bandiau cyfradd uwch. Ond, a siarad yn gyffredinol, rwyf o blaid trethi is nag yn Lloegr yng Nghymru, mewn termau absoliwt yn ogystal ag mewn termau cymharol. Mae'n drueni, rwy'n credu, bod cyfraddau'r dreth stamp ar y lefelau uchel hyn yn debygol o atal yr economi yn y dyfodol. Mae'n bosibl y bydd i raddau bach iawn, oherwydd nad oes gennym gymaint â hynny o eiddo yn lefelau uchel iawn y bandiau hyn. Mae pris tŷ ar gyfartaledd yng Nghymru, rwy'n credu, yn £150,000, ac, ar gyfer y prynwr cyfartalog, byddan nhw'n talu £500 yn llai, rwy'n credu, dan y cyfraddau hyn, nag a fydden nhw fel arall. Felly, mae hynny'n beth da. Ond byddwn yn gwneud apêl ar gyfer y dyfodol, pan fo gennym drethi datganoledig, dylem eu defnyddio fel i ysgogi gwelliannau yn yr economi i annog pobl i ddod i Gymru, oherwydd dyma ran dlotaf y Deyrnas Unedig ac mae angen pob cymorth y gallwn ei gael o'r system dreth i geisio cywiro'r problemau a etifeddwyd o'r gorffennol. Dylwn ddweud, er ein bod wedi galw am raniad ar hyn, mae hynny dim fel y gallwn ymatal, fel bod - . Oherwydd rwyf o blaid y gostyngiadau mewn gosod, ond rydym ni yn erbyn y cynnydd. Ond nid ydym yn gweld, ar y cyfan, bod hyn yn beth drwg ac, felly, rydym ni'n mynd i ymatal yn hytrach na phleidleisio yn erbyn y cynigion.