English: Diolch, Llywydd. I'd love to thank almost all of the Members for their contributions this afternoon. I'm not going to address UKIP's argument, because most of them made no sense and most of them were not backed up by fact - they were mostly informed by fake news, I think. If they really believe that nationality and ethnicity are linked to offending rates, then I wonder whether they see the historic parallels of such a stance. Your contribution was racist, racist, racist, racist. I wasn't surprised to hear the Tories attempting to justify their disastrous criminal justice policy, That great line, 'criminality knows no boundaries', is a classic from the Brexit party. Why don't we have a European police force then, European prisons, a European criminal justice system? And, no, we are not opposed to having prisons - we are opposed to having huge prisons, we are opposed to having prison spaces that our country doesn't need. Of course our prison estate needs modernising, but we are arguing for the devolution of the criminal justice system so that we can do prison differently - more rehabilitative, smaller units for those people who have to be there. But overall, our policy aim should be to reduce the prison population and use more community-based sentences that we've all got confidence in. Bethan Sayed has outlined exactly what the prison campaign in Baglan was all about. She also put the issue in the context of the wider infrastructure investment priorities. People in Port Talbot have engaged in that debate as to how our criminal justice system should be developed in the future. Now, the whole of Wales needs to engage in this debate. Because what we do know is that when victims of crime are asked what they want, time and time again, they say that they want to stop the offender repeat offending. And what's the best way to do that? More people in prison? No, it's better community rehabilitation, and the research is absolutely clear on that point. Jenny Rathbone asked about the reasons behind the high incarceration figures for Wales, and I've explained what Napo's explanation is behind that. But there's no doubt that out higher deprivation levels in Wales have an impact on that as well. On the question of votes for prisoners, we're pleased that Labour supports this call. The UK Government has repeatedly failed to fulfil its human rights obligations in this area in line with international standards. We agree with the judgment from the European Court of Human Rights that there is no place for the automatic disenfranchisement of all prisoners. Further consideration can be given as to whether there should be restrictions on this, and I look forward to continuing with the inquiry and considering that point further. Diolch, Helen Mary, for outlining so clearly the needs of Welsh speakers and the discrimination that women face in the system. We have to change what we do with all offenders, but for women and young people, the matter has reached a point of urgency. I'm of the view that we don't need a women's prison in Wales. We need to take a completely different approach if we want to see different outcomes, and she powerfully made the point that community sentences can be tough. They can be really tough. My experience as a probation officer, seeing clients crying in the room begging to be sent back to prison, is exactly the point that she's made, but it shows how tough community sentences can be. Yes, Alun Davies, the system is failing and it is failing badly, and that's why Plaid Cymru has been campaigning for the devolution of the criminal justice system, in its entirety, for decades now. And I welcome the fact that you have come on board. And I welcome the fact that you support the full devolution of the whole of the criminal justice system, because the Government amendment, as you pointed out, has deleted that part of our motion. And I very much hope that those Labour Members who do want to see the criminal justice system devolved in full will vote accordingly today. Let's see. It's disappointing, though, that we didn't get an adequate explanation from the Minister as to why they couldn't support us on this point, especially in the light of the contribution made by Alun Davies. It's not a constructive or a helpful amendment, Minister, and I think you should vote it down. I welcome, however, what you said on the probation service, and I look forward to discussing that further with you. We have to end the privatisation of unpaid work and group work, as well as one-to-one supervision. I understand that the Ministry of Justice don't want to renationalise those elements, and they want to keep it in private hands, so I hope that you can have some influence on that point. It's clear from this debate that most Members accept that the system is failing everyone. We have to be prepared to do things differently, and we can only do that if we have control over the relevant policy levers. We can't keep putting this off.
Welsh: Diolch, Lywydd. Carwn ddiolch i'r holl Aelodau bron am eu cyfraniadau y prynhawn yma. Nid wyf am roi sylw i ddadl UKIP, gan nad oedd y rhan fwyaf o'r pwyntiau'n gwneud unrhyw synnwyr nac wedi'u cefnogi gan ffeithiau - newyddion ffug oedd yn llywio'r rhan fwyaf ohonynt rwy'n credu. Os ydynt yn credu o ddifrif fod ethnigrwydd a chenedligrwydd yn gysylltiedig â chyfraddau troseddu, tybed a ydynt yn gweld paralelau hanesyddol safbwynt o'r fath. Roedd eich cyfraniad yn hiliol, hiliol, hiliol, hiliol. Nid oeddwn yn synnu clywed y Torïaid yn ceisio cyfiawnhau eu polisi cyfiawnder troseddol trychinebus. Mae'r llinell wych honno, 'nid yw troseddu'n adnabod unrhyw ffiniau' yn enghraifft glasurol gan blaid Brexit. Pam na chawn ni heddlu Ewropeaidd felly, carchardai Ewropeaidd, system cyfiawnder troseddol Ewropeaidd? A na, nid ydym yn gwrthwynebu cael carchardai - rydym yn gwrthwynebu cael carchardai enfawr, rydym yn gwrthwynebu cael lleoedd carchar nad oes mo'u hangen ar ein gwlad. Wrth gwrs bod angen moderneiddio ein hystâd carchardai, ond rydym yn dadlau o blaid datganoli'r system cyfiawnder troseddol fel y gallwn wneud carchardai mewn ffordd wahanol - mwy o adsefydlu, unedau llai o faint ar gyfer y bobl a ddylai fod yno. Ond yn gyffredinol, dylai fod yn nod polisi gennym i leihau poblogaeth y carchardai a defnyddio dedfrydau sy'n fwy cymunedol, ac sy'n ennyn hyder pawb ohonom. Disgrifiodd Bethan Sayed beth yn union oedd yr ymgyrch yn erbyn carchar ym Maglan. Gosododd y mater yng nghyd-destun blaenoriaethau buddsoddi mewn seilwaith ehangach hefyd. Mae pobl ym Mhort Talbot wedi cymryd rhan yn y ddadl ynglŷn â sut y dylid datblygu ein system cyfiawnder troseddol yn y dyfodol. Nawr, mae angen i Gymru gyfan gymryd rhan yn y ddadl. Oherwydd yr hyn a wyddom yw bod dioddefwyr torseddau, pan ofynnir iddynt beth y maent eu eisiau, dro ar ôl tro yn dweud eu bod am atal y troseddwr rhag aildroseddu. A beth yw'r ffordd orau o wneud hynny? Rhoi mwy o bobl yn y carchar? Na, mae'n well adsefydlu yn y gymuned, ac mae'r ymchwil yn gwbl glir ar y pwynt hwnnw. Gofynnodd Jenny Rathbone am y rhesymau dros y ffigurau carcharu uchel ar gyfer Cymru, ac rwyf wedi esbonio beth yw eglurhad Napo ar hynny. Ond nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth fod lefelau uwch o amddifadedd yng Nghymru yn effeithio ar hynny hefyd. Ar fater pleidleisiau i garcharorion, rydym yn falch fod Llafur yn cefnogi'r alwad hon. Dro ar ôl tro, mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi methu cyflawni ei rhwymedigaethau hawliau dynol yn y maes hwn yn unol â safonau rhyngwladol. Rydym yn cytuno gyda dyfarniad Llys Hawliau Dynol Ewrop nad oes unrhyw le i ddifreinio pob carcharor yn awtomatig. Gellir rhoi ystyriaeth bellach i'r angen am osod cyfyngiadau ar hyn, ac edrychaf ymlaen at barhau gyda'r ymchwiliad ac ystyried y pwynt hwnnw ymhellach. Diolch i Helen Mary am amlinellu mor glir anghenion siaradwyr Cymraeg a'r gwahaniaethu sy'n wynebu menywod yn y system. Rhaid inni newid yr hyn a wnawn gyda'r holl droseddwyr, ond i fenywod a phobl ifanc, mae bellach yn fater o frys. Yn fy marn i, nid oes angen carchar i fenywod yng Nghymru. Mae angen inni fabwysiadu agwedd gwbl wahanol os ydym am weld canlyniadau gwahanol, a gwnaeth y pwynt yn rymus y gall dedfrydau cymunedol fod yn llym. Gallant fod yn llym iawn. Yn fy mhrofiad i fel swyddog prawf, roedd gweld cleientiaid yn crio yn yr ystafell yn erfyn am gael eu hanfon yn ôl i'r carchar yn cyd-fynd yn llwyr â'r pwynt a wnaeth, ond mae'n dangos pa mor galed y gall dedfrydau cymunedol fod. Ydy, Alun Davies, mae'r system yn methu ac yn methu'n wael a dyna pam y bu Plaid Cymru'n ymgyrchu dros ddatganoli'r system cyfiawnder troseddol yn ei chyfanrwydd ers degawdau bellach. Ac rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith eich bod wedi ymuno â ni. Ac rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith eich bod yn cefnogi datganoli'r system cyfiawnder troseddol yn ei chyfanrwydd yn llawn, oherwydd fel y nodwyd gennych, mae gwelliant y Llywodraeth yn dileu'r rhan honno o'n cynnig. A mawr obeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau Llafur sydd am weld y system cyfiawnder troseddol yn cael ei datganoli'n llawn yn pleidleisio'n unol â hynny heddiw. Gadewch i ni weld. Mae'n siomedig, er hynny, na chawsom esboniad digonol gan y Gweinidog ynglŷn â pham na allent ein cefnogi ar y pwynt hwn, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni cyfraniad Alun Davies. Nid yw'n welliant adeiladol na defnyddiol, Weinidog, a chredaf y dylech bleidleisio yn ei erbyn. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n croesawu'r hyn a ddywedoch chi am y gwasanaeth prawf, ac edrychaf ymlaen at drafod hynny ymhellach gyda chi. Mae'n rhaid inni roi diwedd ar breifateiddio gwaith di-dâl a gwaith grŵp, yn ogystal â goruchwyliaeth un i un. Deallaf nad yw'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder eisiau ailwladoli'r elfennau hynny, a'u bod am eu cadw mewn dwylo preifat, felly rwy'n gobeithio y gallwch gael rhywfaint o ddylanwad ar y pwynt hwnnw. Mae'n amlwg o'r ddadl hon fod y rhan fwyaf o'r Aelodau yn derbyn bod y system yn gwneud cam â phawb. Rhaid inni fod yn barod i wneud pethau'n wahanol, ac ni allwn wneud hynny heb fod gennym reolaeth dros yr ysgogiadau polisi perthnasol. Ni allwn barhau i ohirio hyn.