English: May I also add my thanks to the clerks, my fellow Members and everyone who provided evidence? As the Chair said in opening this debate, the situation is worse than it was when we were taking evidence, and the situation was grim enough in terms of the future of arts and culture then. And Alun Davies's point is crucially important, I think, in terms of equality, because I despise seeing surveys by local authorities at the moment asking, 'Do you want to keep your library, your museum open, or do you want your bins collected regularly? Do you want older people in society to be cared for, or do you want a museum?' These are not fair choices to put before people, and the fact is that we still see culture and sport as 'nice to have' - some of these things that are just little luxuries of life rather than being a crucial part of everyone's life. The truth is that, despite the fact that we have local museums, that we have libraries, that we have national institutions, there are still too many people here in Wales who can't access them, as things currently stand. There are all sorts of barriers. We know that the cost of transport is one of those barriers. If you don't live close enough to enjoy some of the incredible things that are available free of charge - . I know of many people who live very near to St Fagans but they can't get there because they don't have a car or can't afford a bus, and that is a barrier. Even when you live in Cardiff, there are barriers in accessing these facilities. I think we have to look, when you do have high transport costs, at the fact that a lot of people still think that culture simply isn't for them because they haven't had those opportunities, and policies such as free access to our national museums is crucial. But what's a barrier now is the travel costs to get there. Many schools rely on buses to come to our national museums. That's a huge problem, because they can't afford these coach trips. So, what's available locally becomes even more important. We're talking about swimming lessons; well, the cost of them is going to increase. People can't afford them as things stand. But, rather than seeing it as a key skill, difficult decisions will be made, meaning that there will be fewer opportunities, while simultaneously we want to be promoting the preventative agenda, and also in terms of future generations, the fact that we want everyone to have the same opportunities, wherever they live in Wales. So, there are very real challenges, and I think one of the great concerns that emerged from this report was the fact that the increase in cost was going to have an impact on those that we need to provide more opportunities to. One of the things that I would ask the Minister to expand upon is why the tenth recommendation was rejected in relation to increasing the dialogue with the cultural sector. I accept that you have a good relationship, but can I ask how much mapping is done in terms of the situation facing the sector at the moment across Wales and what will the impact of that be in terms of audiences and participation? I think it's important to work with the education sector to understand the impact of a lack of school trips in terms of that access too. One of the things that's not clear to me in terms of the response is how can we build upon the work of things such as the review of local museums that took place in 2015, which clearly showed the impact of previous cuts on these services. But the situation is even more stark now. There might be dialogue, but where's the action? Without doubt, it's a dire financial situation for our local authorities, because many of these are non-statutory services, including sport. So, if we take this in the context of the health service, I mentioned earlier the importance of sport and culture in terms of the preventative element, that we do secure equal opportunities for everyone in Wales. How can we, therefore, look differently at Government budgets in order to ensure that these opportunities continue to be available? I would like to see a clear message from Government that we don't consider sport and culture as nice to have when times are good, and that this is exceptionally important in terms of the vision of the Welsh Government in all elements of the agenda, from tackling child poverty to the nation's health. So, can I ask, Deputy Minister, for your response in terms of what's happening across Wales in seeing a reduction in these services, and how will the Welsh Government secure that equal access to everyone, wherever they are in Wales?
Welsh: A gaf fi hefyd ategu fy niolch innau i'r clercod, fy nghyd-Aelodau a phawb a ddarparodd dystiolaeth? Fel dywedodd y Cadeirydd wrth agor y drafodaeth hon, mae'r sefyllfa yn waeth nag yr oedd hi pan oeddem ni'n cymryd tystiolaeth, ac mi oedd hi yn sefyllfa ddigon tywyll o ran dyfodol diwylliant a chwaraeon ledled Cymru ar y pryd. Ac mae pwynt Alun Davies yn un allweddol bwysig, dwi'n credu, o ran cydraddoldeb, oherwydd dwi'n casáu gweld arolygon gan gynghorau lleol ar y funud sydd yn gofyn, 'Ydych chi eisiau cadw eich llyfrgell neu'ch amgueddfa ar agor, neu ydych chi eisiau cael eich bins wedi'u gwagio yn rheolaidd? Ydych chi eisiau i bobl hŷn yn ein cymdeithas gael gofal neu ydych chi eisiau amgueddfa?' Dydy'r rhain ddim yn ddewisiadau teg, ac mae'n ffaith ein bod ni'n dal i weld diwylliant a chwaraeon fel pethau 'neis i'w cael' - rhai o'r pethau yma sydd jest yn ategu bywyd, yn hytrach na bod yn rhan hollol, hollol hanfodol o ran pawb ohonom ni. Y gwir amdani ydy, er gwaethaf y ffaith bod gennym ni amgueddfeydd lleol, bod gennym ni lyfrgelloedd, bod gennym ni sefydliadau cenedlaethol, mae yna'n dal gormod o bobl yma yng Nghymru lle dydyn nhw ddim yn gallu cael mynediad ar y funud, fel y mae hi efo'r hyn sydd ar gael. Mae yna bob math o rwystrau am hynny. Rydym ni'n gwybod bod cost trafnidiaeth yn un o'r rhwystrau hynny. Os dydych chi ddim yn digon agos i allu mwynhau rhai o'r pethau anhygoel sydd ar gael am ddim, os ydych chi'n methu â'u cyrraedd nhw - . Dwi'n gwybod am amryw o bobl sydd yn byw yn agos iawn i Sain Ffagan ond yn methu â'i cyrraedd gan does ganddyn nhw ddim car neu eu bod nhw'n methu â fforddio bws. Mae honna'n rhwystr. Hyd yn oed pan ydych chi'n byw yng Nghaerdydd, mae yna rwystrau o allu cyrraedd. Dwi'n meddwl bod yn rhaid i ni edrych hefyd, pan fo gennych chi'r costau trafnidiaeth, o ran hefyd bod lot o bobl yn dal i deimlo dyw diwylliant ddim iddyn nhw oherwydd dydyn nhw ddim wedi cael y cyfle, ac mae polisïau fel mynediad am ddim i'n hamgueddfeydd cenedlaethol yn rhan allweddol. Ond beth sy'n rhwystro pobl rŵan fydd costau bws i allu dod. Mae nifer o ysgolion yn dibynnu ar fws i allu dod i'n hamgueddfeydd cenedlaethol ni. Mae honna'n broblem ddirfawr oherwydd byddan nhw'n methu â fforddio'r tripiau yma. Felly, mae'r hyn fydd ar gael yn lleol yn dod hyd yn oed yn fwy pwysig wedyn. Rydyn ni'n sôn am wersi nofio; wel, mae cost hynny'n mynd i gynyddu. Mae pobl yn methu â'u fforddio nhw fel y mae hi. Yn lle ein bod ni'n cael ei weld o fel sgìl hollol allweddol, mi fydd yna benderfyniadau anodd yn cael eu gwneud, gan olygu bod yna lai o gyfleoedd, lle, ar yr un pryd, rydyn ni eisiau bod yn hyrwyddo'r agenda ataliadol, a hefyd, o ran cenedlaethau'r dyfodol, y ffaith ein bod ni eisiau i bawb gael yr un cyfle yng Nghymru, lle bynnag maen nhw'n byw. Felly, mae yna heriau gwirioneddol. Dwi'n meddwl mai un o'r pryderon mawr oedd yn dod allan o'r adroddiad hwn oedd y ffaith bod y cynnydd mewn costau yn mynd i gael yr effaith ar y rhai rydyn ni angen bod yn rhoi mwy o gyfleoedd iddyn nhw. Un o'r pethau y byddwn i'n gofyn i'r Gweinidog, efallai, i ehangu, ydy pam y gwrthodwyd y degfed argymhelliad o ran cynyddu'r ddeialog o ran y sector diwylliannol. Dwi'n derbyn bod gennych chi berthynas dda, ond gaf i ofyn faint o ddealltwriaeth sydd yna, neu faint o fapio sy'n cael ei wneud, o ran y sefyllfa sy'n wynebu'r sector ar y funud, a hynny ledled Cymru, a beth fydd effaith hynny wedyn o ran cynulleidfaoedd? Dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig hefyd cydweithio efo'r sector addysg ac ati i ddeall beth ydy effeithiau diffyg tripiau ysgol ac ati o ran y mynediad hwnnw. Un o'r pethau sydd ddim yn glir i fi o ran yr ymateb ydy sut ydyn ni hefyd yn mynd i fod yn adeiladu ar waith pethau fel yr adolygiad amgueddfeydd lleol a fuodd yn 2015, a oedd yn dangos yn glir effaith toriadau blaenorol o ran y gwasanaethau hyn. Mae'r sefyllfa hyd yn oed yn fwy difrifol rŵan. Felly, efallai fod yna ddeialog, ond lle mae'r gweithredu wedi bod? Heb os, mae'n sefyllfa ariannol hollol, hollol anodd i'n cynghorau lleol ni am mai gwasanaethau anstatudol ydy nifer o'r rhain, gan gynnwys o ran chwaraeon, felly. Felly, os ydyn ni'n cymryd hyn yng nghyd-destun hefyd y gwasanaeth iechyd, mi wnes i sôn yn gynharach ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd chwaraeon a diwylliant o ran yr elfen ataliadol hefyd, ein bod ni'n sicrhau cyfleoedd cyfartal i bawb yng Nghymru. Sut ydyn ni felly yn mynd i fod yn edrych yn wahanol ar gyllidebau Llywodraeth Cymru er mwyn sicrhau bod y cyfleoedd hyn yn parhau? Fe fyddwn i'n hoffi'n gweld neges glir gan y Llywodraeth dydyn ni ddim yn ystyried diwylliant a chwaraeon fel pethau neis i'w cael pan fo amseroedd yn dda, fod hyn yn eithriadol o bwysig o ran gweledigaeth Llywodraeth Cymru o ran pob elfen o'r agenda, o daclo tlodi plant i iechyd y genedl. Felly, a gaf i ofyn, Dirprwy Weinidog, am eich ymateb chi o ran yr hyn sy'n digwydd ledled Cymru, o ran gweld lleihad mewn gwasanaethau yma ar hyn o bryd, a sut bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau'r mynediad cydradd hwnnw i bawb, lle bynnag y bôn nhw yng Nghymru?