English: I recall the statement during the debate on the social partnership Bill that Joel James made, and it was quite a strong statement. The words he used, I've got them on the screen here: 'this Government is chiefly concerned with looking after their trade union paymasters.' And, 'Surely the Deputy Minister can see that there is a clear issue in how trade unions will now have undue influence over policy'. Those are words used by a Member of the Conservative benches, and at the time I had grave concerns about what was said, and there was a lot of concerns raised in this Chamber about that. But we need to remember the trade unions are the most effective representation of the workforce that has been seen in this country. I've had conversations with my own trade union, Unison, about this issue, and I'm very glad to have had that conversation, particularly as chair of the Unison Senedd Members group, and I enable links between Senedd Members and Unison to have those discussions. If there is a criticism of the Government on this, and I feel there is a criticism, it's that the trade unions - . I've said this to the Minister myself privately, that I feel that the trade unions could have been involved more comprehensively and more deeply earlier on in this process. I think that is an issue that I would hope the Minister would recognise. And I know that there's a system, an independent body that recommends NHS pay that is set up for that purpose, but nonetheless, we are nothing if we do not listen to the workforce, and the body that achieves that are those trade unions. So, I do feel that I'd like the Minister to respond on that issue. But nonetheless, yesterday in the response to the leader of Plaid Cymru, the First Minister made clear that there is a limited pot of funding and many demands on it, and that is exactly why the Welsh Government is looking to introduce constitutional reform and see this concept of radical federalism that would free up the Welsh Government to do exactly as Rhun ap Iorwerth has said in his speech. One of the things that I would like to see, for example, is a Holtham levy, but we must have a different distribution of powers across this United Kingdom if that Holtham levy was to be levied for social care. Councillor Carol Andrews is a Labour councillor in Bargoed, but also a nurse at Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr. She has raised with me the heroic efforts that she and other nurses are making there, particularly through COVID. Her daughter, Megan, has just graduated with a first-class honours degree in nursing, and will be a fantastic nurse in the future. NHS workers do deserve a better pay deal, and I'm glad to hear that that discussion is ongoing with Welsh Government. And Unison, rather than meet with the leader of Plaid Cymru, I'd say to Unison they were right instead to meet with the Welsh Government, and continue those discussions, because my concern is when negotiations are held with opposition parties, and those points are then made to score party political points in First Minister's questions, it detracts entirely from the seriousness of this issue. What needs to be done, as the Minister is doing, is for that constructive conversation to continue. And I know that that is what's happening with responsible unions, like mine, Unison, and we look forward to hearing the result and the outcome of that. We know that there's a potential for industrial action; I urge the Minister and the unions to work together to do all they can to avoid that.
Welsh: Gallaf gofio'r datganiad a wnaeth Joel James yn ystod y ddadl ar y Bil partneriaeth gymdeithasol, ac roedd yn ddatganiad eithaf cryf. Y geiriau a ddefnyddiodd, maent ar y sgrin gennyf yma: 'mae'r Llywodraeth hon yn poeni'n bennaf am ofalu am eu cyflogwyr undebau llafur.' A, 'Siawns na all y Dirprwy Weinidog weld bod problem amlwg o ran sut y bydd undebau llafur yn cael dylanwad gormodol ar bolisi'. Dyna'r geiriau a ddefnyddiwyd gan Aelod o feinciau'r Ceidwadwyr, ac ar y pryd, roedd gennyf bryderon dybryd am yr hyn a ddywedwyd, a mynegwyd llawer o bryderon yn y Siambr hon ynglŷn â hynny. Ond mae angen inni gofio mai'r undebau llafur yw cynrychiolwyr mwyaf effeithiol y gweithlu a welwyd yn y wlad hon. Rwyf wedi cael sgyrsiau gyda fy undeb llafur fy hun, Unsain, am y mater hwn, ac rwy'n falch iawn fy mod wedi cael y sgwrs honno, yn enwedig fel cadeirydd grŵp Unsain yr Aelodau o'r Senedd, ac rwy'n hwyluso cysylltiadau rhwng Aelodau o'r Senedd ac Unsain fel y gellir cael y trafodaethau hynny. Os oes beirniadaeth o'r Llywodraeth yn y mater hwn, ac rwy'n teimlo bod beirniadaeth, gallai'r undebau llafur - . Rwyf wedi dweud hyn wrth y Gweinidog fy hun yn breifat, fy mod yn teimlo y gallai'r undebau llafur fod wedi cymryd rhan fwy cynhwysfawr a dyfnach yn gynharach yn y broses hon. Credaf fod hwnnw'n fater y byddwn yn gobeithio y byddai'r Gweinidog yn ei gydnabod. A gwn fod system, corff annibynnol sy'n argymell cyflogau'r GIG ac sydd wedi'i sefydlu at y diben hwnnw, ond serch hynny, nid ydym yn dda i ddim os nad ydym yn gwrando ar y gweithlu, a'r corff sy'n cyflawni hynny yw'r undebau llafur. Felly, hoffwn pe bai'r Gweinidog yn ymateb ar y mater hwnnw. Er hynny, ddoe, yn yr ymateb i arweinydd Plaid Cymru, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog yn glir mai pot cyfyngedig o gyllid sydd ar gael, gyda llawer o alwadau arno, a dyna'n union pam fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn awyddus i gyflwyno diwygio cyfansoddiadol a gweld y cysyniad o ffederaliaeth radical a fyddai'n rhyddhau Llywodraeth Cymru i wneud yn union fel y dywedodd Rhun ap Iorwerth yn ei araith. Un o'r pethau yr hoffwn eu gweld, er enghraifft, yw ardoll Holtham, ond byddai'n rhaid inni weld pwerau wedi'u dosbarthu'n wahanol ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig hon er mwyn codi ardoll Holtham am ofal cymdeithasol. Mae'r Cynghorydd Carol Andrews yn gynghorydd Llafur ym Margoed, ond mae hi hefyd yn nyrs yn Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr. Tynnodd fy sylw at yr ymdrechion arwrol y mae hi a nyrsys eraill yn eu gwneud yno, yn enwedig drwy gyfnod COVID. Mae ei merch, Megan, newydd raddio gyda gradd anrhydedd dosbarth cyntaf mewn nyrsio, a bydd yn nyrs wych yn y dyfodol. Mae gweithwyr y GIG yn haeddu gwell cytundeb cyflog, ac rwy'n falch o glywed bod y drafodaeth honno'n parhau gyda Llywodraeth Cymru. Ac Unsain, yn hytrach na chyfarfod ag arweinydd Plaid Cymru, byddwn yn dweud wrth Unsain eu bod yn iawn i gyfarfod yn lle hynny â Llywodraeth Cymru, a pharhau â'r trafodaethau hynny, oherwydd fy mhryder yw, pan gynhelir trafodaethau gyda'r gwrthbleidiau, a'r pwyntiau hynny wedyn yn cael eu gwneud er mwyn sgorio pwyntiau gwleidyddol yn ystod y cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog, mae'n tynnu oddi ar ddifrifoldeb y mater hwn. Yr hyn sydd angen ei wneud, fel y mae'r Gweinidog yn ei wneud, yw parhau â'r sgwrs adeiladol honno. A gwn mai dyna sy'n digwydd gydag undebau cyfrifol, fel fy un i, Unsain, ac edrychwn ymlaen at glywed canlyniad hynny. Gwyddom fod potensial ar gyfer gweithredu diwydiannol; rwy'n annog y Gweinidog a'r undebau i weithio gyda'i gilydd i wneud popeth a allant i osgoi hynny.