English: Well, let's be clear - the five operational objectives that provide a framework for Cwm Taf's IMTP plan include: to improve the quality, safety and patient experience, and to provide strong governance and assurance. Now, Dai Lloyd has already raised the evidence that we had from the director of community mental health and primary care at Cwm Taf over Parc prison. We're not questioning the fact that, in fact, G4S are supposed to be the ones running the community services; what he has responsibility for is governance, to ensure that those services are being delivered. And yet, his response to most of the committee questions was, 'I don't know. I don't know. I don't know', despite the fact that they've had that prison, not only in their care since the beginning of this year, but there's been an 18-month lead-in to it. So, it's all about the governance, and this has been brought out again by the joint Wales Audit Office and HIW report, which absolutely slates the lack of governance and audit control within this health board. In your Cabinet paper, on 27 March, you said that all of the IMTPs of all of the health boards had been subjected to a robust assessment process. How, Minister, did you or your officials not pick up on this tsunami of concerns? Is the reality that, for the last few years, Cwm Taf has been held up as the grade A health board, the lodestar, the ones that all other health boards should try to emulate, and it couldn't be allowed to fail? Because there is beginning to smell a systemic issue throughout this health board. And before you come back with some quick quip on this, I'd like to remind you that even the maternity services oversight panel interim report is very clear, as is David Jenkins very clear about the fact that this is a cultural change that has to happen throughout the whole health board, that there are systemic issues, and the governance arrangements, if nothing else - which is one of the things in that IMTP that they waxed lyrical about, and say is absolutely spot on - are poor. Their audit committee hasn't met for ages, to discuss some of these issues. So, Minister, I'll just ask you this: did you look at Cwm Taf's performance robustly and dispassionately? Did you look but did not see? Did you look, did you see - did it not matter?
Welsh: Wel, gadewch i ni fod yn glir - mae'r pum amcan gweithredol sy'n darparu fframwaith ar gyfer Cynllun Tymor Canolig Integredig bwrdd Cwm Taf yn cynnwys: gwella ansawdd, diogelwch a phrofiad y claf, a darparu sicrwydd a llywodraethu cryf. Nawr, mae Dai Lloyd eisoes wedi codi'r dystiolaeth a gawsom gan y cyfarwyddwr iechyd meddwl cymunedol a gofal sylfaenol ym mwrdd iechyd Cwm Taf ynglŷn â charchar y Parc. Nid ydym yn cwestiynu'r ffaith mai G4S, mewn gwirionedd, yw'r rhai sydd i fod yn rhedeg y gwasanaethau cymunedol; yr hyn y mae ganddo gyfrifoldeb amdano yw llywodraethu, er mwyn sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau hynny'n cael eu darparu. Ac eto, ei ymateb i'r rhan fwyaf o gwestiynau'r pwyllgor oedd, 'Wn i ddim. Wn i ddim. Wn i ddim', er gwaethaf y ffaith eu bod wedi cael y carchar hwnnw, nid yn unig yn eu gofal ers dechrau eleni, ond bu cyfnod o 18 mis yn arwain at hynny. Felly, mae'n ymwneud yn llwyr â llywodraethu, ac mae hyn wedi'i amlygu unwaith eto gan yr adroddiad ar y cyd gan Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ac Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru, sy'n beirniadu'r diffyg llywodraethu a rheolaeth archwilio yn y bwrdd iechyd hwn yn llym. Yn eich papur Cabinet, ar 27 Mawrth, fe ddywedoch fod pob un o gynlluniau tymor canolig integredig pob un o'r byrddau iechyd wedi bod yn destun proses asesu gadarn. Sut, Weinidog, na wnaethoch chi na'ch swyddogion sylwi ar y tswnami hwn o bryderon? Ai'r gwir yw bod bwrdd iechyd Cwm Taf, dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf, wedi'i ganmol fel y bwrdd iechyd o'r radd flaenaf, y nod, yr un y dylai pob bwrdd iechyd arall geisio'i efelychu, ac na ellid caniatáu iddo fethu? Oherwydd mae'n dechrau ymddangos bod yna broblem systemig yn y bwrdd iechyd hwn drwyddo draw. A chyn i chi ddod yn ôl gydag ateb parod cyflym i hyn, hoffwn eich atgoffa bod hyd yn oed adroddiad interim panel trosolwg y gwasanaethau mamolaeth yn glir iawn, fel y mae David Jenkins yn glir iawn ynglŷn â'r ffaith bod hwn yn newid diwylliannol y mae'n rhaid iddo digwydd drwy'r bwrdd iechyd cyfan, fod problemau systemig yn bodoli, a bod y trefniadau llywodraethu, os nad unrhyw beth arall - sef un o'r pethau yn y cynllun tymor canolig integredig hwnnw roeddent yn frwd iawn yn ei gylch, ac yn dweud ei fod yn gwbl gywir - yn wael. Nid yw eu pwyllgor archwilio wedi cyfarfod ers oesoedd i drafod rhai o'r materion hyn. Felly, Weinidog, gofynnaf hyn ichi: a wnaethoch chi edrych ar berfformiad bwrdd Cwm Taf yn gadarn ac yn ddiduedd? A wnaethoch chi edrych a methu gweld? A wnaethoch chi edrych, a gweld - ond nad oedd ots?