English: I was responding to one area of the debate; I will come to the other parts of the debate in due course. My assumption was that you wanted to intervene on the formula aspects of it. But we will refer to other parts of this. What I would like to be able to do, though, is to have a little more of - how shall I put it - an elevated debate on how we fund local government and the challenges facing us. Let me say this: over the last few years, we have seen a significant impact as a consequence of austerity. We have seen an 8 per cent fall, in real terms, in the budget available to this Government since 2009 and 2010. We have seen the impact of a failed economic policy and a failed financial policy from London. It has failed to achieve all of its objectives. One of those objectives - [ Interruption.] I'm not going to take another intervention at the moment. It has failed to achieve any of its objectives, and that, I suspect, is why the current Chancellor has thrown the whole lot into the bin. Let me say this: the Conservatives tell us that they would do things differently, and they're right, they would. They would - they would - because, in England, they are reducing core Government funding, not by 10 per cent or 20 per cent, but to zero. To zero. They reduced it to nothing at all. But you don't hear that from these voices here, and you don't hear it from Conservative councillors either. You know, I've seen the same letters as others have seen here, but I am yet to see a letter from a Conservative leader anywhere in Wales - and I'll take the intervention if somebody has one - where they are saying, 'We want the same policies being pursued by the Conservative Government of the United Kingdom in England here in Wales.' [ Interruption.] I'm yet to see it, and I notice that the interventions behind me have dried up. What we have seen - [ Interruption.] What we have seen - [ Interruption.] They're silent now. They're silent now, because they recognise - [ Interruption.] Because they recognise - [ Interruption.] They recognise that the 24 per cent cut in spending for councils in England is compared to 12 per cent in Wales - not 35 per cent, Darren. You got your numbers wrong again; you need a new researcher and you need a new speech writer. So, let me tell you this. There is no - [ Interruption.] There is no local authority in Wales that is facing anything like the same reductions in spending as the average council in England - not one, not one at all. But let me go further than that, and this is the real debate we need to have this afternoon, and Rhun ap Iorwerth came close to saying these things. Let me say this: it's the easiest thing in the world to repeat and rehearse arguments - we've heard at least one Member say that he's made the same speech three times in the last three years - but that is not an adequate response. It's an inadequate response to the challenges we face. We know that a Chancellor in a speech saying that austerity is at an end will, depending on different scenarios, still lead to significant reductions in the Welsh block grant to 2021-22, either by -3 per cent, -0.5, or -0.8 per cent. So, we will still see reductions. And we know - and this is the challenge, Rhun - it's not good enough to offer a commentary and to offer an analysis of different areas of funding, because nobody would disagree with you, but you have to take decisions. We're not sitting in this Chamber to provide a commentary. We're sitting in this Chamber to take decisions, and if you do question the amount of money spent on health, the honest approach is not simply to critique it, but to argue to cut it. Argue to cut it.
Welsh: Roeddwn i'n ymateb i un rhan o'r ddadl: Fe fyddaf yn dod at rannau eraill o'r ddadl maes o law. Fy rhagdybiaeth oedd eich bod eisiau ymyrryd ar yr agweddau yn ymwneud â fformiwla o hyn. Ond fe fyddwn yn cyfeirio at rannau eraill o hyn. Fodd bynnag, yr hyn yr hoffwn i ei wneud, yw cael ychydig mwy o - sut gallaf i fynegi hyn - ddadl ddyrchafedig ynghylch sut yr ydym ni'n ariannu llywodraeth leol a'r heriau sy'n ein hwynebu. Gadewch imi ddweud hyn; dros yr ychydig flynyddoedd diwethaf, rydym ni wedi gweld effaith sylweddol o ganlyniad i gyni. Rydym ni wedi gweld gostyngiad o 8 y cant, mewn termau real yn y gyllideb sydd ar gael i'r Llywodraeth hon ers 2009 a 2010. Rydym ni wedi gweld effaith polisi economaidd a pholisi ariannol wedi methu o Lundain. Mae wedi methu â chyflawni pob un o'i amcanion. Un o'r amcanion hynny - [ Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf am dderbyn ymyriad arall ar hyn o bryd. Mae wedi methu â chyflawni unrhyw un o'i hamcanion, a dyna pam, rwy'n amau, y taflodd y Canghellor presennol y cyfan i'r bin. Gadewch imi ddweud hyn: Mae'r Ceidwadwyr yn dweud wrthym ni y bydden nhw'n gwneud pethau mewn ffordd wahanol, ac maen nhw'n iawn, fe fydden nhw. Fe fydden nhw - fe fydden nhw - oherwydd, yn Lloegr, maen nhw'n lleihau cyllid craidd y Llywodraeth, nid gan 10 y cant nac 20 y cant, ond i sero. I sero. Fe'i gostyngwyd i ddim byd o gwbl. Ond nid ydych chi'n clywed hynny gan y lleisiau hyn yma, na'i glywed gan gynghorwyr Ceidwadol ychwaith. Rwyf i wedi gweld yr un llythyrau a welwyd gan eraill yn y fan yma, ond rwy'n dal i ddisgwyl gweld llythyr gan arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr mewn unrhyw le yng Nghymru - ac fe dderbyniaf yr ymyriad os oes gan rywun un - lle y maen nhw'n dweud, eu bod nhw eisiau'r un polisïau sy'n cael eu dilyn gan Lywodraeth Geidwadol y Deyrnas Unedig yn Lloegr yn cael eu dilyn yma yng Nghymru. [ Torri ar draws.] Nid wyf i wedi ei weld hyd yn hyn, ac rwy'n sylwi bod yr ymyriadau y tu ôl imi wedi tewi. Yr hyn yr ydym ni wedi ei weld - [ Torri ar draws.] Yr hyn yr ydym ni wedi ei weld - [ Torri ar draws.] Maen nhw'n dawel nawr. Maen nhw'n dawel nawr, oherwydd eu bod yn cydnabod - [ Torri ar draws.] Oherwydd eu bod yn cydnabod - [ Torri ar draws.] Maen nhw'n cydnabod bod 24 y cant o doriad mewn gwariant ar gyfer cynghorau yn Lloegr yn cymharu â 12 y cant yng Nghymru - nid 35 y cant, Darren. Fe gawsoch eich rhifau'n anghywir unwaith eto; mae angen ymchwilydd newydd arnoch chi ac mae angen ysgrifennwr areithiau newydd arnoch chi hefyd. Felly, gadewch imi ddweud hyn wrthych chi. Nid oes unrhyw - [ Torri ar draws.] Nid oes unrhyw awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru yn wynebu unrhyw beth tebyg i'r un gostyngiadau mewn gwariant ag y mae cyngor cyfartalog yn Lloegr - dim un, dim un o gwbl. Ond gadewch i mi fynd ymhellach na hynny, a dyma'r ddadl wirioneddol y mae'n rhaid inni ei chael y prynhawn yma, a daeth Rhun ap Iorwerth yn agos iawn at ddweud y pethau hyn. Gadewch imi ddweud hyn: Y peth hawddaf yn y byd yw ailadrodd ac ymarfer dadleuon - rydym ni wedi clywed o leiaf un Aelod yn dweud ei fod wedi traddodi'r un araith dair gwaith yn ystod y tair blynedd diwethaf - ond nid yw hynny'n ymateb digonol. Mae'n ymateb annigonol i'r heriau a wynebwn. Fe wyddom ni fod Canghellor yn dweud mewn araith bod cyni ar ben, yn dibynnu ar sefyllfaoedd gwahanol, yn arwain at ostyngiadau sylweddol yng ngrant bloc Cymru hyd at 2021-22, naill ai gan -3 y cant, -0.5 neu-0.8 y cant. Felly, byddwn ni'n dal yn gweld gostyngiadau. Ac fe wyddom ni - a dyma'r her, Rhun - nid yw'n ddigon da i gynnig sylwebaeth a chynnig dadansoddiad o'r gwahanol feysydd o ariannu, oherwydd ni fyddai neb yn anghytuno â chi, ond mae'n rhaid i chi wneud penderfyniadau. Nid ydym ni'n eistedd yn y Siambr hon i roi sylwebaeth. Rydym ni'n eistedd yn y Siambr hon i wneud penderfyniadau, ac os ydych chi'n cwestiynu faint o arian a werir ar iechyd, yr ymagwedd onest yw nid ei feirniadu, ond dadlau o blaid ei dorri. Dadlau o blaid ei dorri.