English: It's a pleasure to follow two combative speakers in comparison with which I can be made to look moderate and consensual. [Laughter.] It's a curiously retrogressive Bill, this, because one of the policies that made Labour unelectable in the 1980s was its determined opposition to the introduction of the right to buy. Of course, the numbers are very different now so possibly it may not have quite the same toxic effect on the Labour Party as their attitude did then. Also, I have a curious sense of déjà vu, because I had a part in persuading the Thatcher Government to include housing associations in the housing Bill of 1979, which gave to housing association tenants the same rights that were proposed for council tenants, and, for the same reasons as David Melding has outlined, a very good thing it was too in increasing the diversity of ownership in estates. This is an ideological Bill because it's always seemed rather absurd to me, in terms of social policy, that a Government should subsidise the bricks and mortar rather than those who need help with being able to afford a roof over their head. It's, of course, an extremely expensive way for catering for a social need, actually to build houses as opposed to provide people with the means of paying rent. The figures are unambiguous that this Bill is totally irrelevant to the solution to the housing crisis that we have in Wales. Just look at the figures. Local authorities sold under the right-to-buy provisions last year only 141 houses. Registered social landlords sold 133 under the right-to-acquire legislation; they sold voluntarily 299. So, the total number of houses in local authority ownership and RSL ownership that were sold under the right-to-buy legislation was only 274 in a housing stock of 1.4 million houses in the whole of Wales. So, clearly, this has no significance at all beyond an ideological one for the Labour Party, now reverting to type after 20 or 30 years. If we look at the stock figures, this is quite dramatic. Local authorities currently own 87,000 properties for rent. RSLs own 137,000. There are privately-rented houses in Wales - 202,000. Owner occupation - nearly 1 million. And what we're talking about here is 274 houses or flats that have been sold under the right-to-buy legislation in a year.
Welsh: Mae'n bleser dilyn dau siaradwr ymosodol y gallaf, drwy gael fy nghymharu â nhw, rwy'n ymddangos yn gymedrol ac yn gydsyniol. [Chwerthin.] Mae'n Fil rhyfeddol o wrthdroadol, hwn, oherwydd un o'r polisïau a wnaeth y blaid Lafur yn anetholadwy yn y 1980au oedd ei gwrthwynebiad penderfynol i gyflwyno'r hawl i brynu. Wrth gwrs, mae'r niferoedd yn wahanol iawn erbyn hyn, felly o bosibl efallai na fydd yn cael yr un effaith wenwynig ar y Blaid Lafur ag y gwnaeth eu hagwedd bryd hynny. Hefyd, mae gen i deimlad rhyfedd o déjà vu, oherwydd roeddwn i'n rhan o'r gwaith o berswadio Llywodraeth Thatcher i gynnwys cymdeithasau tai ym Mil tai 1979, a oedd yn rhoi i denantiaid cymdeithasau tai yr un hawliau a gynigiwyd i denantiaid y cyngor, ac, am yr un rhesymau ag y mae David Melding wedi eu hamlinellu, peth da iawn oedd hynny wrth gynyddu amrywiaeth perchnogaeth mewn ystadau. Mae hwn yn Fil ideolegol oherwydd ei fod bob amser wedi ymddangos braidd yn hurt i mi, o ran polisi cymdeithasol, bod Llywodraeth yn sybsideiddio'r brics a'r morter yn hytrach na'r bobl hynny sydd angen cymorth i allu fforddio to uwch eu pen. Wrth gwrs, mae'n ffordd eithriadol o ddrud i ddarparu ar gyfer angen cymdeithasol, i adeiladu tai mewn gwirionedd yn hytrach na rhoi i bobl y modd o dalu rhent. Mae'r ffigurau yn dangos yn ddiamwys bod y Bil hwn yn gwbl amherthnasol i'r ateb i'r argyfwng tai sydd gennym yng Nghymru. Edrychwch ar y ffigurau. Dim ond 141 o dai a werthwyd gan awdurdodau lleol o dan yr hawl i brynu y llynedd. Gwerthodd landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig 133 o dan y ddeddfwriaeth hawl i gaffael; gwerthwyd 299 ganddynt yn wirfoddol. Felly, dim ond 274 oedd cyfanswm nifer y tai o eiddo awdurdodau lleol a landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig a werthwyd o dan y ddeddfwriaeth hawl i brynu allan o stoc o 1.4 miliwn o dai yng Nghymru gyfan. Felly, yn amlwg, nid oes unrhyw arwyddocâd o gwbl i hyn y tu hwnt i arwyddocad ideolegol i'r Blaid Lafur, sydd bellach yn mynd yn ôl i'w meddylfryd gwreiddiol ar ôl 20 neu 30 mlynedd. Os edrychwn ni ar y ffigurau stoc, mae hyn yn eithaf dramatig. Ar hyn o bryd mae awdurdodau lleol yn berchen ar 87,000 o eiddo ar rent. Mae landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig yn berchen ar 137,000. Mae tai rhent preifat yng Nghymru - 202,000. Perchen-feddiannaeth - bron i 1 miliwn. A beth rydym ni'n sôn amdano yma yw 274 o dai neu fflatiau sydd wedi eu gwerthu o dan y ddeddfwriaeth hawl i brynu mewn blwyddyn.