English: Diolch, Llywydd. We have re-tabled amendments 24 and 25 from Stage 2 because, while we recognise that the Minister has listened to the committee and stakeholders and included relatives registered as childminders within both regulations and the draft administrative scheme, this is again left to secondary legislation and a non-statutory scheme to determine. As has been made clear within Stage 2, this is not just about the types of provider listed but the registration process. We agree that childminders should be subject to registration, and we have heard the Minister's reassurance about both schools and grandparents, yet this misses the fundamental point about the current registration process for being a childcare provider. Grandparents are still unable to register with Care Inspectorate Wales if they only look after their own relatives. I have to say, Minister, that when we've met with you, you yourself have said that the ones not taking up the offer have sometimes been those where grandparents look after their children. As PACEY Cymru, the Professional Association for Childcare and Early Years, noted at Stage 1, this leaves out a vast swathe of people who also care for their relatives, leading to concerns about the sustainability of the childcare sector, especially within our rural areas. This ties in somewhat with our continued concerns about workforce planning, which will be dealt with under amendment 34. The Minister pointed out at Stage 2 that there is no stipulation for relatives to care for other children under the offer. However, this isn't made clear either on the face of the Bill or within the draft administrative scheme. Likewise, the exemption for schools under the Child Minding and Day Care Exceptions (Wales) Order 2010 has the side-effect of preventing the Minister's aim of wraparound care, as schools would have to work in partnership with a registered childminder to provide the childcare element or create a separate legal entity for representatives to register. While we received assurances at Stage 2 and Stage 3 that these will be reviewed, this needs to be made clear during the legislative process. That's why we're here today. The Children, Young People and Education Committee is also still waiting for the results of the call for evidence to review the Child Minding and Day Care Exceptions (Wales) Order 2010, which could ease the registration of both relatives and schools as childcare providers. It is deeply disappointing that the Minister has issued a call for evidence during the latter stages of the Bill's progress, meaning that we as Assembly Members do not have the ability to scrutinise this evidence before the Bill is passed. This is surely where the processes of the Bill are lacking. We are debating a framework Bill, which the Minister claims is merely technical, but essentially it's delivering part of the childcare offer through HMRC. The Bill was at Stage 1 six months into testing the pilot areas; at Stage 2 before a call for evidence on childcare registration; and at Stage 3 before the first evaluation of early implementers of the offer was published. It does very much feel as though we are going back to this Bill in a year's time when the next evaluation report is published, and the year after, when the national roll-out has begun. That, surely, is not just putting the cart before the horse, but a whole caravan. Pr - . Right. Thank you. I nearly said 'Presiding Officer' then. [ Laughter.]
Welsh: Diolch, Lywydd. Rydym wedi ailgyflwyno gwelliannau 24 a 25 o Gyfnod 2 oherwydd, er ein bod yn cydnabod bod y Gweinidog wedi gwrando ar y pwyllgor a'r rhanddeiliaid ac wedi cynnwys perthnasau a gofrestrwyd yn warchodwyr plant o fewn y cynllun gweinyddol drafft a'r rheoliadau, mae hyn eto'n cael ei adael i is-ddeddfwriaeth a chynllun anstatudol ei benderfynu. Fel y gwnaethpwyd yn glir yng Nghyfnod 2, mae hyn yn ymwneud nid yn unig â'r mathau o ddarparwyr a gofrestrir, ond â'r broses gofrestru hefyd. Rydym yn cytuno y dylai gwarchodwyr plant gael eu cofrestru, a chlywsom y Gweinidog yn rhoi sicrwydd ynglŷn ag ysgolion a neiniau a theidiau, ond mae hyn yn methu'r pwynt sylfaenol ynglŷn â'r broses gofrestru bresennol ar gyfer bod yn ddarparwr gofal plant. Nid yw neiniau a theidiau'n cael cofrestru gydag Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru os mai edrych ar ôl eu perthnasau eu hunain yn unig a wnânt. Rhaid imi ddweud, Weinidog, pan gawsom gyfarfod â chi, fe ddywedoch chi eich hun mai'r rhai nad ydynt yn manteisio ar y cynnig weithiau yw neiniau a theidiau sy'n edrych ar ôl eu plant. Fel y nododd PACEY Cymru, y Gymdeithas Broffesiynol ar gyfer Gofal Plant a'r Blynyddoedd Cynnar, yng Nghyfnod 1, caiff amrywiaeth helaeth o bobl sydd hefyd yn gofalu am eu perthnasau eu hepgor drwy hyn, gan arwain at bryderon ynghylch cynaliadwyedd y sector gofal plant, yn enwedig yn ein hardaloedd gwledig. Mae hyn yn cysylltu i ryw raddau â'n pryderon parhaus ynghylch cynllunio'r gweithlu, a bydd hynny'n cael sylw o dan welliant 34. Nododd y Gweinidog yng Nghyfnod 2 nad oes unrhyw amod fod yn rhaid i berthnasau ofalu am blant eraill o dan y cynnig. Fodd bynnag, nid yw hyn yn cael ei wneud yn glir ar wyneb y Bil nac o fewn y cynllun gweinyddol drafft. Yn yr un modd, un o sgil-effeithiau'r esemptiad ar gyfer ysgolion o dan y Gorchymyn Eithriadau Gwarchod Plant a Gofal Dydd (Cymru) 2010 yw bod hynny'n atal nod y Gweinidog o ofal cofleidiol, gan y byddai'n rhaid i ysgolion weithio mewn partneriaeth gyda gwarchodwr plant cofrestredig i ddarparu'r elfen gofal plant neu greu endid cyfreithiol ar wahân i gynrychiolwyr gofrestru. Er inni gael sicrwydd yng Nghyfnod 2 a Chyfnod 3 y caiff y rhain eu hadolygu, mae angen gwneud hyn yn glir yn ystod y broses ddeddfwriaethol. Dyna pam rydym ni yma heddiw. Mae'r Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg hefyd yn dal i aros am ganlyniadau'r alwad am dystiolaeth i adolygu Gorchymyn Eithriadau Gwarchod Plant a Gofal Dydd (Cymru) 2010, a allai leddfu'r broses o gofrestru perthnasau ac ysgolion fel darparwyr gofal plant. Mae'n hynod o siomedig fod y Gweinidog wedi cyhoeddi galwad am dystiolaeth yn ystod y camau olaf o daith y Bil, sy'n golygu na allwn ni fel Aelodau Cynulliad graffu ar y dystiolaeth hon cyn y caiff y Bil ei basio. Dyma lle mae prosesau'r Bil yn ddiffygiol. Rydym yn trafod Bil fframwaith, ac mae'r Gweinidog yn honni mai mater technegol yn unig ydyw, ond yn ei hanfod mae'n cyflawni rhan o'r cynnig gofal plant drwy CThEM. Roedd y Bil yng Nghyfnod 1 chwe mis ar ôl dechrau treialu'r ardaloedd peilot; yng Nghyfnod 2 cyn yr alwad am dystiolaeth ar gofrestru gofal plant; ac yng Nghyfnod 3 cyn cyhoeddi'r gwerthusiad cyntaf o weithredwyr cynnar y cynnig. Mae'n sicr yn teimlo fel pe baem yn mynd yn ôl at y Bil hwn ymhen blwyddyn pan gyhoeddir yr adroddiad gwerthuso nesaf, a'r flwyddyn ar ôl hynny, pan fydd wedi dechrau cael ei gyflwyno'n genedlaethol. Nid rhoi'r cert o flaen y ceffyl yn unig yw hynny, ond carafán cyfan. Lyw - . Iawn. Diolch. Bu bron i mi ddweud 'Llywydd'. [ Chwerthin.]