English: I'm struggling to understand this, and perhaps we're all suffering from general election fatigue and there's something the matter with my brain, but the Minister has just said that he was confident that Cwm Taf had the ability to deliver on that three-year plan that he signed off. Now, bear in mind, Deputy Presiding Officer, that this was before any of the interventions that the Minister has said will sort everything out. And let's be absolutely clear that the level of governance and management at that point, when he did that sign-off, was really, really poor. I still don't understand, from what the Minister has said, why he was happy to sign that off. Either he knew and he thought it could be overcome, or he didn't know, and that's a problem in itself, but he wasn't prepared to sign off those other plans. Now, if we look back to the HIW and audit office report, they are being fairly clear that the Minister was measuring the wrong things. If these plans are only about the financial condition of a local health board, then let's call them that and let's deal with that, and I'm not for one moment saying that where local health boards are struggling with their finances, that shouldn't be addressed. But I cannot understand how the Minister felt that those individuals running that health board, who had allowed this appalling toxic culture to develop - and it's clear that it's not only in maternity services that that's really poor - when he signed off that plan, were in a fit state to deliver. That was long before he put his measures in. The measures he's put in may or may not work. I am just at a loss to understand that, and I want to know form the Minister whether he accepts that there are structural and systematic problems in the governance and leadership of the NHS that go beyond one health board at a time.
Welsh: Rwy'n ei chael hi'n anodd deall hyn, ac efallai fod pob un ohonom yn dioddef o flinder yn sgil yr etholiad cyffredinol a bod rhywbeth o'i le gyda fy ymennydd, ond mae'r Gweinidog newydd ddweud ei fod yn hyderus fod gan fwrdd Cwm Taf y gallu i gyflawni'r cynllun tair blynedd a gymeradwywyd ganddo. Nawr, cofiwch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, fod hyn cyn unrhyw un o'r ymyriadau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi dweud y byddant yn datrys popeth. A gadewch imi ddweud yn gwbl glir fod lefel y llywodraethu a'r rheoli bryd hynny, pan gymeradwywyd y cynllun ganddo, yn wirioneddol wael. Nid wyf yn deall o hyd, o'r hyn y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i ddweud, pam ei fod yn barod i gymeradwyo hynny. Naill ai ei fod yn gwybod ac roedd yn credu y gellid goresgyn y broblem, neu nid oedd yn gwybod, ac mae honno'n broblem ynddi'i hun, ond nid oedd yn barod i gymeradwyo'r cynlluniau eraill hynny. Nawr, os edrychwn yn ôl ar adroddiad Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru a'r swyddfa archwilio, maent yn dweud yn weddol glir fod y Gweinidog yn mesur y pethau anghywir. Os yw'r cynlluniau hyn yn ymwneud â chyflwr ariannol bwrdd iechyd lleol yn unig, gadewch i ni eu galw'n hynny a gadewch inni fynd i'r afael â hynny, ac nid wyf yn dweud am un eiliad, lle mae byrddau iechyd lleol yn cael trafferth gyda'u trefniadau ariannol, na ddylid rhoi sylw i hynny. Ond ni allaf ddeall sut y teimlai'r Gweinidog fod yr unigolion sy'n rhedeg y bwrdd iechyd hwnnw, a oedd wedi caniatáu i'r diwylliant gwenwynig echrydus hwn ddatblygu - ac mae'n amlwg nad yn y gwasanaethau mamolaeth yn unig y mae'n wirioneddol wael - pan gymeradwyodd y cynllun hwnnw, sut y teimlai eu bod mewn sefyllfa dda i'w gyflawni. Roedd hynny ymhell cyn iddo roi ei fesurau i mewn. Efallai y bydd y mesurau y mae wedi'u rhoi i mewn yn gweithio neu efallai na fyddant yn gweithio. Ni allaf ddeall hynny, ac rwy'n awyddus i wybod gan y Gweinidog a yw'n derbyn bod problemau strwythurol a systematig yn nhrefniadau llywodraethu ac arweinyddiaeth y GIG sy'n mynd y tu hwnt i un bwrdd iechyd ar y tro.