English: Well, there are some aspects of what the Member said that I can agree with, Llywydd. We've just had the second independent investigation report published; I just don't see where the merit lies in piling investigation upon investigation. What we need is action on the basis of the reports that we now have in front of us. The point that I feel I can agree with is when Rhun ap Iorwerth says that models that are developed by royal colleges and others have to be properly transferred into the Welsh context and can't be just picked up and dropped into Wales. When I was the health Minister, I was also responsible for a piece of work done about Bronglais General Hospital, in which these exact arguments were discussed - and discussed with the royal colleges - about the way in which services that could safely and properly be provided locally in a rural area could be safely and successfully deployed at that hospital. And I think that has been a successful set of actions that have followed that have added to the staff at the hospital and the capacity at the hospital. So, I agree that general trends in medicine, which are towards the centralisation of specialist services, have to be calibrated to the context in which they are being implemented, and we should do that in a way that works for us here in Wales. Where I do depart from him completely is in his wish to try and reopen old battles over the way in which services were decided upon and configured in north Wales in the vascular context. The health Minister could not have been more direct in her statement about the distraction, at the very best, that that will be from the real job in hand, which is to make sure that the system that we now have works, and works properly, and does not have the very disturbing and disappointing aspects that were revealed in the report that the board itself had commissioned.
Welsh: Wel, mae rhai agweddau ar yr hyn a ddywedodd yr Aelod y gallaf gytuno â nhw, Llywydd. Rydym newydd gyhoeddi'r ail adroddiad ymchwiliad annibynnol; nid wyf yn gweld lle mae'r budd o bentyrru ymchwiliad ar ôl ymchwiliad. Yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom yw gweithredu ar sail yr adroddiadau sydd gennym nawr o'n blaenau. Y pwynt y teimlaf y gallaf i gytuno ag ef yw pan ddywed Rhun ap Iorwerth fod yn rhaid trosglwyddo modelau sy'n cael eu datblygu gan golegau brenhinol ac eraill yn briodol i gyd-destun Cymru ac nid dim ond eu codi a'u gollwng yng Nghymru. Pan oeddwn i yn Weinidog iechyd, yr oeddwn i hefyd yn gyfrifol am ddarn o waith a wnaed am Ysbyty Cyffredinol Bronglais, lle trafodwyd yr union ddadleuon hyn - a'u trafod gyda'r colegau brenhinol - am y ffordd y gellid defnyddio gwasanaethau y gellid eu darparu'n ddiogel ac yn briodol yn lleol mewn ardal wledig yn ddiogel ac yn llwyddiannus yn yr ysbyty hwnnw. Ac rwy'n credu bod hynny wedi bod yn gyfres lwyddiannus o gamau gweithredu sydd wedi dilyn ac sydd wedi ychwanegu at staff yr ysbyty a'r capasiti yn yr ysbyty. Felly, rwy'n cytuno bod yn rhaid i dueddiadau cyffredinol mewn meddygaeth, sydd tuag at ganoli gwasanaethau arbenigol, gael eu graddnodi ar gyfer y cyd-destun y maen nhw'n cael eu gweithredu ynddo, a dylem wneud hynny mewn ffordd sy'n gweithio i ni yma yng Nghymru. Lle yr wyf yn gwyro oddi wrtho'n llwyr, yw ei ddymuniad i geisio ailagor hen frwydrau dros y ffordd y penderfynwyd ar wasanaethau a'u ffurfweddu yn y gogledd yn y cyd-destun fasgwlaidd. Ni allai'r Gweinidog iechyd fod wedi bod yn fwy uniongyrchol yn ei datganiad sef y byddai hynny yn tynnu sylw oddi ar y gwaith go iawn sydd dan sylw, sef sicrhau bod y system sydd gennym nawr yn gweithio, ac yn gweithio'n iawn, ac nad oes ganddi'r agweddau annymunol a siomedig iawn a ddatgelwyd yn yr adroddiad yr oedd y bwrdd ei hun wedi'i gomisiynu.