English: I'm grateful to the Member for her general welcome for the White Paper, and I'd certainly want to join her in congratulating the south Wales extrication team on the world rescue challenge that they have succeeded in winning again. It is one of the great pleasures of elected office that we all share the opportunity to meet people who perform such fantastic roles within our communities, and, certainly, I try to spend time talking to firefighters who are on the front line, as it were, delivering the services that we all need to see in our community. Can I say this? When I stood in the Rhondda talking to the firefighters who had just come back from Saddleworth and talking to firefighters who were dealing with the moorland fires across south Wales over the summer, I was struck by their professionalism, by their knowledge - sheer knowledge - and understanding of the threats that our communities were facing, but also their commitment to use that knowledge, to use that experience, in order to protect our people and our communities, and I think that's something that strikes me time and time again. In terms of the role of backbench councillors, what we're seeking to do is to ensure that we have the levels of governance that are in place that can provide us with the assurance that we require in order to deliver both the local scrutiny and accountability - which we want to hold locally rather than create more national structures - but, at the same time, ensure that we do have the ability to link the work of the fire service into the work of other services being delivered by that authority. The points that were made by the Conservatives - by the Plaid Cymru spokesperson, I'm sorry - in this matter are quite important, because, in the same way as we want to see the devolution of policing to ensure that we have the coherence of ability to respond to and plan service interventions, we also want to have that same coherence between local authorities and the blue light services. And it is felt, and I feel, that by having an executive councillor or a cabinet member serving on the fire authority then we will have that link, and we will have more, and greater, coherence. Clearly, that is a debate that we will have over the coming months. In terms of the funding models, I'm anxious that we are able to put in place a structure whereby local government and the fire and rescue authorities are able to jointly work and jointly agree a budget for the future. That is what I want. The Member quite rightly identifies areas where that can potentially not happen and where there are problems within that. Clearly, there would need to be backstop powers here to resolve that. What we're suggesting in this White Paper is that the backstop provides powers for Ministers, but powers only to intervene under certain circumstances and then to intervene to deliver a budget that is no higher than the fire and rescue authority proposes. So, those powers are delineated, if you like, or certainly have parameters beyond which a Minister could not intervene. But I see those as very much backstop powers that would enable an authority and a fire and rescue authority to reach agreement and to adjudicate if they're unable to do that. But I don't see those powers as being powers that would be available to a Minister unless the locally held powers, and unless the local authorities involved, were unable to reach agreement between themselves.
Welsh: Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Aelod am ei chroeso cyffredinol i'r Papur Gwyn, ac yn sicr fe hoffwn i ymuno â hi i longyfarch tîm rhyddhau de Cymru ar yr her achub fyd-eang y maen nhw wedi llwyddo i'w hennill eto. Un o bleserau mawr swydd etholedig yr ydym ni i gyd yn ei rannu yw'r cyfle i gwrdd â phobl sy'n gwneud gwaith mor wych yn ein cymunedau, ac, yn sicr, rwy'n ceisio treulio amser yn siarad â diffoddwyr tân sydd ar y rheng flaen, fel petai, sy'n darparu'r gwasanaethau y mae angen inni i gyd eu gweld yn ein cymuned. A gaf i ddweud hyn? Pan sefais yn y Rhondda yn siarad â'r diffoddwyr tân a oedd newydd ddychwelyd o Saddleworth a phan oeddwn yn siarad â diffoddwyr tân a oedd yn ymdrin â thanau rhostir ar draws de Cymru dros yr haf, fe'm trawyd gan eu proffesiynoldeb, gan eu gwybodaeth - ehangder eu gwybodaeth - a'u dealltwriaeth o'r bygythiadau yr oedd ein cymunedau yn eu hwynebu, ond hefyd eu hymrwymiad i ddefnyddio'r wybodaeth honno, i ddefnyddio'r profiad hwnnw, er mwyn diogelu ein pobl a'n cymunedau, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n fy nharo drachefn a thrachefn. O ran swyddogaeth cynghorwyr y meinciau cefn, yr hyn yr ydym ni'n ceisio ei wneud yw sicrhau bod gennym ni'r haenau llywodraethu sy'n gallu rhoi'r sicrwydd angenrheidiol inni er mwyn sicrhau craffu ac atebolrwydd lleol - yr ydym ni eisiau iddo fod yn lleol yn hytrach na chreu strwythurau cenedlaethol mwy - ond, ar yr un pryd, i sicrhau bod gennym ni'r gallu i gysylltu gwaith y gwasanaeth tân gyda gwaith y gwasanaethau eraill a ddarperir gan yr awdurdod hwnnw. Mae'r pwyntiau a wnaed gan lefarydd y Ceidwadwyr - Plaid Cymru, mae'n ddrwg gennyf - yn hyn o beth yn eithaf pwysig, oherwydd, yn yr un modd ag yr ydym ni eisiau gweld datganoli'r heddlu i sicrhau bod gennym ni'r cydlyniant gallu i ymateb i a chynllunio ymyriadau gwasanaeth, rydym ni hefyd eisiau yr un cydlyniant hwnnw rhwng awdurdodau lleol a gwasanaethau brys. A'r teimlad, rwy'n credu, yw drwy gael cynghorydd gweithredol neu aelod o'r cabinet yn gwasanaethu ar awdurdod tân, yna bydd gennym ni'r cysylltiad hwnnw, a bydd gennym ni fwy o gydlyniant a gwell cydlyniant. Yn amlwg, mae hynny'n drafodaeth y byddwn ni'n ei chael dros y misoedd nesaf. O ran y modelau ariannu, rwy'n awyddus ein bod yn gallu sefydlu strwythur lle mae llywodraeth leol a'r awdurdodau tân ac achub yn gallu cydweithio a chytuno ar gyllideb ar y cyd ar gyfer y dyfodol. Dyna'r hyn y sydd arnaf ei eisiau. Mae'r Aelod yn gwbl briodol yn nodi meysydd lle mae'n bosib i hynny beidio â digwydd a lle ceir problemau yn hynny o beth. Yn amlwg, byddai angen pwerau wrth gefn i ddatrys hynny. Yr hyn yr ydym ni'n ei awgrymu yn y Papur Gwyn hwn yw bod y pwerau wrth gefn hyn yn rhoi pwerau i Weinidogion, ond dim ond pwerau i ymyrryd o dan amgylchiadau penodol ac wedyn i ymyrryd i ddarparu cyllideb sy'n ddim uwch na'r hyn y mae'r awdurdod tân ac achub yn ei gynnig. Felly, mae'r pwerau hynny wedi eu dylunio, os mynnwch chi, neu yn sicr mae ffiniau iddynt na allai Gweinidog ymyrryd y tu hwnt iddynt. Ond rwy'n gweld y rhai hynny i raddau helaeth iawn fel pwerau wrth gefn a fyddai'n galluogi awdurdod ac awdurdod tân ac achub i gytuno a dyfarnu a allan nhw wneud hynny. Ond nid wyf yn gweld y pwerau hynny fel pwerau a fyddai ar gael i Weinidog oni bai bod y pwerau, ac oni bai bod yr awdurdodau lleol cysylltiedig, yn methu â dod i gytundeb ymysg ei gilydd.