English: No-one is arguing that co-ops or mutuals are a magic bullet and guarantee survival; that's always been the case. And I recognise of course that the Member is right to highlight that in the finance sector, there is a long tradition of successful mutuals, and a business model that I think is here to stay for the future. We already have in Wales extensive support available for the sector. Employee Ownership Wales is part of the Social Business Wales programme funded by the Welsh Government and the now former European regional development fund as far as Wales is concerned - a successful programme that is of course at risk if that practical support in the form of European Union funds is not reprovided to Wales in the future. It currently provides fully funded bespoke advice to help decide if employee ownership and share schemes are the right solution for that business moving forward. In addition, we offer dedicated support through Business Wales, and that helps with succession planning options, including management buy-outs. In addition to this, I've asked my officials to work with the sector to explore options on how we can further promote employee ownership and worker buy-outs with our wider stakeholders and businesses here in Wales, including the work that the Development Bank of Wales already undertakes. Whether it's the work that we've done in recent years with the ideas of the Welsh Co-operative and Mutuals Commission to make real the values of co-operative action across areas of Government, whether it's in social care, where we have legislated to support the development of not-for-profit providers and set up the integrated care fund to promote alternative delivery models, or whether it's in the foundation economy, we have already established new experimental funds to test innovative ideas and new ways of working that we hope can and will scale up within procurement. We have already used the powers of devolved Government here in Wales in a confident way, to work with partners like the Wales Co-operative Centre, and to take many of the ideas honed over the last century of this movement's work to make progressive change a reality and to improve the lives of working people. We're committed to continuing this journey through the policy levers that we do have available here in Wales. If we were to introduce legislation in this area, more detailed discussions would be required to understand the benefit of doing so. I have an open mind on the question of legislation, but there is the very real practical challenge of both a packed legislative agenda, but also the balance of reserved and devolved powers that the Member identified in his opening. The Government will abstain on the motion today, but Welsh Labour, including the very many Welsh Labour and Co-operative Members, will have a free vote. However, I do want to respond positively to what I think is the point and the purpose that the Member highlights in bringing this motion before us today: how can we and how will we double the size of employee-owned businesses in Wales within this Welsh Parliament term? Because I'll be very happy to take up his suggestion to sit down with him, with fellow co-operators and the Wales Co-operative Centre to discuss just how we do that in practice and fulfil our manifesto pledge.
Welsh: Nid oes neb yn dadlau bod cwmnïau cydweithredol neu gydfuddiannol yn ateb i bob dim ac yn gwarantu bod busnes yn goroesi; felly y mae wedi bod erioed. Ac rwy'n cydnabod wrth gwrs fod yr Aelod yn iawn i dynnu sylw at y ffaith bod yna draddodiad hir o gwmnïau cydfuddiannol llwyddiannus yn y sector ariannol, a model busnes sydd yma i aros ar gyfer y dyfodol yn fy marn i. Eisoes yng Nghymru mae gennym gymorth helaeth ar gael i'r sector. Mae Perchnogaeth Gweithwyr Cymru yn rhan o raglen Busnes Cymdeithasol Cymru a ariannir gan Lywodraeth Cymru a chronfa datblygu rhanbarthol Ewrop, cronfa flaenorol bellach o safbwynt Cymru - rhaglen lwyddiannus sydd, wrth gwrs, mewn perygl os na chaiff y cymorth ymarferol ar ffurf cronfeydd yr Undeb Ewropeaidd ei ailddarparu i Gymru yn y dyfodol. Ar hyn o bryd mae'n darparu cyngor pwrpasol wedi'i ariannu'n llawn i helpu i benderfynu ai cynlluniau perchnogaeth gan y gweithwyr a chynlluniau cyfranddaliadau gweithwyr yw'r ateb cywir i'r busnes hwnnw wrth symud ymlaen. Yn ogystal, rydym yn cynnig cymorth penodol drwy Busnes Cymru i helpu gydag opsiynau cynllunio olyniaeth, gan gynnwys pryniant gan reolwyr. Yn ogystal â hyn, rwyf wedi gofyn i fy swyddogion weithio gyda'r sector i archwilio opsiynau i weld sut y gallwn hyrwyddo perchnogaeth gan y gweithwyr a phryniant gan weithwyr gyda'n rhanddeiliaid a'n busnesau ehangach yma yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys y gwaith y mae Banc Datblygu Cymru eisoes yn ei wneud. Boed yn waith a wnaethom yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf gyda syniadau Comisiwn Cwmnïau Cydweithredol a Chydfuddiannol Cymru i wireddu gwerthoedd gweithredu cydweithredol ar draws meysydd Llywodraeth, boed mewn gofal cymdeithasol, lle rydym wedi deddfu i gefnogi datblygiad darparwyr di-elw a sefydlu'r gronfa gofal integredig i hyrwyddo modelau darparu amgen, neu yn yr economi sylfaenol, rydym eisoes wedi sefydlu cronfeydd arbrofol newydd i brofi syniadau arloesol a ffyrdd newydd o weithio y gobeithiwn y gellir eu hymestyn ym maes caffael. Rydym eisoes wedi defnyddio pwerau'r Llywodraeth ddatganoledig yma yng Nghymru mewn ffordd hyderus, i weithio gyda phartneriaid fel Canolfan Cydweithredol Cymru, ac i gymryd llawer o'r syniadau a hogwyd dros y ganrif ddiwethaf o waith y mudiad hwn er mwyn gwneud newid blaengar yn realiti ac er mwyn gwella bywydau gweithwyr. Rydym wedi ymrwymo i barhau â'r daith hon drwy'r ysgogiadau polisi sydd ar gael yma yng Nghymru. Pe baem yn cyflwyno deddfwriaeth yn y maes hwn, byddai angen trafodaethau manylach i ddeall y budd o wneud hynny. Mae gennyf feddwl agored ynglŷn â deddfwriaeth, ond ceir her ymarferol wirioneddol gydag agenda ddeddfwriaethol lawn, a hefyd y cydbwysedd rhwng pwerau a gadwyd yn ôl a phwerau datganoledig fel y nododd yr Aelod wrth agor. Bydd y Llywodraeth yn ymatal ar y cynnig heddiw, ond bydd gan Lafur Cymru, gan gynnwys y nifer fawr o Aelodau Llafur a Chydweithredol bleidlais rydd. Fodd bynnag, rwyf am ymateb yn gadarnhaol i'r hyn y credaf yw'r pwynt a'r diben y mae'r Aelod yn tynnu sylw ato wrth gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn ger ein bron heddiw: sut y gallwn ni a sut y byddwn ni'n dyblu nifer y busnesau sy'n eiddo i weithwyr yng Nghymru o fewn tymor y Senedd hon yng Nghymru? Oherwydd byddaf yn hapus iawn i dderbyn ei awgrym i eistedd gydag ef, gyda chyd-aelodau o'r Blaid Gydweithredol a Chanolfan Cydweithredol Cymru i drafod sut y gwnawn hynny'n ymarferol a chyflawni ein haddewid maniffesto.