English: Well, I thank the Member for those comments and for those detailed figures, all of which are ones that I'm aware of and are absolutely pertinent to the reality of this situation. I suppose the difference between you and me and, I suppose, the Welsh Conservatives, is of course that we have both practiced in those courts. We have actually had the direct experience. And in many ways what we are doing is actually reflecting what is happening on the ground and the extent to which the situation is deteriorating. The Government's own statistics actually confirm the scale of that deterioration, and I think you might well agree with me that not only has justice been dumbed down increasingly over the past decade, but access has been savagely cut. You make the point about the link between social justice and, I suppose, the judicial system, and you're absolutely right there, because the interlink between housing, between poverty, between social services, the family issues, the issue of domestic violence and abuse and the poverty that pertains around that are all contributing factors that result in people being brought into the courts. And it just cannot be right that people don't have access to proper advice when it is actually needed and, possibly, might even assist in their not being in the courts or, even if they had to participate in the courts, not having to effectively speak in person. And of course there are other areas in respect of the issues around the devolution of justice. We don't argue this because of some sort of power struggle as to whether Westminster should control it or whether we should, I think it's just the case that it is blatantly obvious now that the linking of all those responsibilities of this Parliament, which the Welsh Government has responsibility for, are all part and parcel of the same justice jigsaw. And not having one of the tools in the armoury undermines the ability to deliver better justice. We could deliver better justice for the people of Wales than the system that is currently available to us, and that is our argument - not who controls it, but because we can and we could do so much better. So much progress has been made in terms of the collaboration with the Ministry of Justice, but that is wholly dependent on the goodwill of the UK Government, a transitory goodwill that may exist at any time and is not the basis for strategic planning and development. You raised the issue of virtual tribunals, particularly within our tribunal system, and they, of course, have been effective during COVID. Those tribunals are, perhaps, more suited to online hearings, but we have to be very wary that, in using the advantages of technology, we don't actually deny access to those who may not have those digital skills or access to that. And, of course, Welsh Government is working in that particular area as well. You raised a final point on the issue of instructing counsel, the development of the legal profession in Wales. It is something that's very important. Of course, it is open to counsel and solicitors from across the UK to actually go onto the approved list to agree the terms and conditions on which members of the legal profession engage in Welsh work. So, that is work in progress; it is ongoing activity. And, of course, you are right that, as Welsh law becomes more and more extensive, it is necessary to ensure that we have the skills within Wales, but also that we build up the legal economy in Wales - so, looking at the issue of the development of corporate law and competition law within Wales and making Wales a centre of such economic activity. But, to do so, we do actually need decent courts to enable that to happen.
Welsh: Wel, diolch i'r Aelod am y sylwadau yna ac am y ffigurau manwl yna, y mae pob un ohonyn nhw'n rhai yr wyf yn ymwybodol ohonyn nhw ac yn gwbl berthnasol i realiti'r sefyllfa hon. Mae'n debyg mai'r gwahaniaeth rhyngoch chi a fi ac, mae'n debyg, y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, wrth gwrs, yw ein bod ni'n dau wedi ymarfer yn y llysoedd hynny. Rydym ni wedi cael y profiad uniongyrchol mewn gwirionedd. Ac mewn sawl ffordd, yr hyn yr ydym ni'n ei wneud yw adlewyrchu'r hyn sy'n digwydd ar lawr gwlad ac i ba raddau y mae'r sefyllfa'n dirywio. Mae ystadegau'r Llywodraeth ei hun mewn gwirionedd yn cadarnhau maint y dirywiad hwnnw, ac rwy'n credu y byddech yn cytuno â mi nid yn unig y mae cyfiawnder wedi'i leihau fwyfwy dros y degawd diwethaf, ond mae mynediad wedi'i dorri'n llym. Rydych yn gwneud y pwynt am y cysylltiad rhwng cyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac, mae'n debyg, y system farnwrol, ac rydych yn llygad eich lle, oherwydd mae'r cysylltiad rhwng tai, rhwng tlodi, rhwng gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, materion teuluol, trais a cham-drin domestig a'r tlodi sy'n ymwneud â hynny i gyd yn ffactorau sy'n cyfrannu at ddod â phobl i mewn i'r llysoedd. Ac ni all fod yn iawn nad oes gan bobl y modd i gael cyngor priodol pan fydd ei angen mewn gwirionedd ac, o bosibl, gallai hyd yn oed helpu i'w cadw o'r llysoedd neu, hyd yn oed pe bai'n rhaid iddyn nhw gymryd rhan yn y llysoedd, ni fyddan nhw'n gorfod siarad yn bersonol. Ac wrth gwrs mae meysydd eraill o ran y materion sy'n ymwneud â datganoli cyfiawnder. Nid ydym yn dadlau hyn oherwydd rhyw fath o frwydr pŵer ynghylch p'un a ddylai San Steffan ei reoli neu a ddylem ni, credaf ei bod yn amlwg nawr fod cysylltu holl gyfrifoldebau'r Senedd hon, y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gyfrifol amdanyn nhw, i gyd yn rhan annatod o'r un jig-so cyfiawnder. Ac mae peidio â bod ag un arf yn yr arfdy yn tanseilio'r gallu i sicrhau gwell cyfiawnder. Gallem ddarparu gwell cyfiawnder i bobl Cymru nag y gall y system sydd ar gael i ni ar hyn o bryd, a dyna ein dadl - nid pwy sy'n ei rheoli, ond oherwydd y gallwn ni ac y gallem ni wneud cymaint yn well. Mae cymaint o gynnydd wedi'i wneud o ran y cydweithio â'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder, ond mae hynny'n gwbl ddibynnol ar ewyllys da Llywodraeth y DU, ewyllys da dros dro a all fodoli ar unrhyw adeg ac nad yw'n sail ar gyfer cynllunio a datblygu strategol. Fe wnaethoch chi godi mater y tribiwnlysoedd rhithwir, yn enwedig o fewn ein system tribiwnlysoedd, ac maen nhw wrth gwrs, wedi bod yn effeithiol yn ystod COVID. Mae'r tribiwnlysoedd hynny, efallai, yn fwy addas i wrandawiadau ar-lein, ond mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn wyliadwrus iawn nad ydym ni, wrth ddefnyddio manteision technoleg, mewn gwirionedd yn atal mynediad i'r rhai nad oes ganddyn nhw'r sgiliau digidol hynny na mynediad at hynny. Ac, wrth gwrs, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio yn y maes penodol hwnnw hefyd. Fe wnaethoch chi godi pwynt olaf ar fater cyfarwyddo bargyfreithwyr, datblygu'r proffesiwn cyfreithiol yng Nghymru. Mae'n rhywbeth sy'n bwysig iawn. Wrth gwrs, mae'n agored i fargyfreithwyr a chyfreithwyr o bob rhan o'r DU fynd ar y rhestr gymeradwy i gytuno ar y telerau ac amodau y mae aelodau o'r proffesiwn cyfreithiol yn ymwneud â gwaith yng Nghymru yn gweithio o danyn nhw. Felly, mae hynny'n waith sydd ar y gweill; mae'n weithgarwch parhaus. Ac, wrth gwrs, rydych chi'n iawn, wrth i gyfraith Cymru ddod yn fwy a mwy helaeth, fod angen sicrhau bod gennym y sgiliau yng Nghymru, ond hefyd ein bod yn adeiladu'r economi gyfreithiol yng Nghymru - felly, edrych ar fater datblygu cyfraith gorfforaethol a chyfraith cystadleuaeth yng Nghymru a gwneud Cymru'n ganolfan o weithgarwch economaidd o'r fath. Ond, er mwyn gwneud hynny, mae arnom angen llysoedd boddhaol mewn gwirionedd i alluogi hynny i ddigwydd.