English: Minister, I'm participating in this debate, really, because I want to support and agree with the various comments that have been made, and certainly about the state of the house building industry and some of the legacies we have. I have a constituent who specifically has asked me to to raise the Celestia issue, and he is obviously one of many. He now lives in my constituency. He, of course, can't sell his flat because of the blighting that has taken place. And the fundamental scandal is this: we see it throughout Wales, I know, and I'm sure throughout the UK, in terms of why this house building monopoly appears to operate now with really very low ethical standards. You build rubbish houses, you then run away from them after making enormous profits, and you leave enormous legacies of problems and repairs and so on. I'm sure most Assembly Members have enormous caseloads of people who've moved into these new houses, sometimes with Government support in terms of the funding arrangements, only to have, year after year after year, the legacy of problems that exist and the problems that then are there when people want to try and sell their particular houses. It seems to me that the real crux, as we've all said from time to time, is that what we do need is a comprehensive, ethical housing and house building policy. Part of the problem, of course, is that we lost in the public sector the capacity to build houses ourselves, and that is something we have to regain because what they have now is a monopoly over us, and they don't care. We have all met with them from time to time. We have these pointless meetings where it's almost like meeting with banks to talk about bank closures. You're meeting with some of these housing companies to talk about the housing problems they have, and you sit down and, yes, you get a lot of supportive nodding of the head, but nothing changes. The fact that we have modern houses being built that don't even have basic internet services as a guarantee - something that is absolutely fundamental. So, we have to look, I think, at the weaknesses within our own planning arrangements: the fact that we are giving planning permission to these housing companies to extort these enormous profits and to rob the people who are actually buying these houses, and we have to look at alternatives in house building, whether it be co-operative house building, whether it be establishing our own companies in respect of that. And I know, Minister, that you are very supportive of all these sorts of things, but I think the time has come now where, within Wales, I think we can say, 'Look, enough is enough; this just cannot go on any longer.' The Celestia one is just an example of these companies. They build the houses, they reap the profits, then they accept no responsibility later on from them, and the leasehold is just another scandal. And I still remain of the view that we should just ban any further leasehold housing. There are other things that we can't do. So, Minister, all I would ask is that you give serious thought to a comprehensive, ethical housing policy, but also to look at the moment at those people, for example, in Celestia who have these particular problems, to do what you can to bring these housing companies together, to bang their heads together and make them accept the responsibilities that they should be taking. It's one thing to say, 'We'll name and shame them', I think they've been shamed and I don't think they actually care that much anymore. But, certainly, whatever pressure - . And, quite frankly, if they can't comply, if they can't deliver to the standards they should, then surely, whether we should actually be allowing them to build houses within Wales, whether the planning system, somehow, should actually say, 'Look, if you can't commit to these ethical standards, then we don't want you building houses here in Wales.'
Welsh: Gweinidog, rwy'n cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon, mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd rwyf eisiau cefnogi a chytuno â'r amrywiol sylwadau sydd wedi'u gwneud, ac yn sicr am gyflwr y diwydiant adeiladu tai a pheth o'r gwaddol sydd gennym ni. Mae gennyf i etholwr sydd wedi gofyn imi godi'r mater Celestia yn benodol, ac yn amlwg mae'n un o blith llawer. Mae bellach yn byw yn fy etholaeth. Wrth gwrs, nid yw'n gallu gwerthu ei fflat oherwydd y malltod sydd wedi digwydd. A'r sgandal sylfaenol yw hyn: rydym ni'n ei weld ledled Cymru, rwy'n gwybod, ac rwy'n siŵr ledled y DU, o ran pam mae'n ymddangos bod y monopoli hwn ar adeiladu tai yn gweithredu ar hyn o bryd gyda safonau moesegol isel iawn. Rydych chi'n adeiladu tai sâl, yna'n troi cefn arnyn nhw ar ôl gwneud elw enfawr, ac yn gadael gwaddol enfawr o ran problemau ac atgyweiriadau ac yn y blaen. Rwy'n siŵr bod gan y rhan fwyaf o Aelodau'r Cynulliad lwythi achos enfawr o bobl sydd wedi symud i'r tai newydd hyn, weithiau gyda chymorth y Llywodraeth o ran y trefniadau ariannu, dim ond i gael, flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, y gwaddol o broblemau sy'n bodoli a'r problemau sydd yno pan fydd pobl eisiau ceisio gwerthu eu tai penodol. Mae'n ymddangos i mi mai gwir hanfod hyn, fel yr ydym ni i gyd wedi'i ddweud o bryd i'w gilydd, yw mai'r hyn y mae arnom ni ei angen yw polisi tai ac adeiladu tai cynhwysfawr, moesegol. Rhan o'r broblem, wrth gwrs, yw inni golli'r gallu yn y sector cyhoeddus i adeiladu tai ein hunain, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth y mae'n rhaid inni ei adennill oherwydd yr hyn sydd ganddyn nhw ar hyn o bryd yw monopoli drosom ni, ac nid ydyn nhw'n poeni. Rydym ni i gyd wedi cwrdd â nhw o bryd i'w gilydd. Rydym ni'n cael cyfarfodydd dibwrpas o'r fath sydd bron â bod fel cyfarfod â banciau i drafod cau banciau. Rydych chi'n cyfarfod â rhai o'r cwmnïau tai hyn i drafod y problemau tai sydd ganddyn nhw, ac rydych chi'n eistedd ac, ie, rydych chi'n cael llawer o amneidio cefnogol, ond nid oes dim byd yn newid. Mae'r ffaith bod gennym ni dai modern yn cael eu hadeiladu nad ydyn nhw hyd yn oed yn cael gwasanaethau rhyngrwyd sylfaenol wedi'u gwarantu - rhywbeth sy'n gwbl sylfaenol. Felly, mae'n rhaid inni edrych, rwy'n meddwl, ar y gwendidau yn ein trefniadau cynllunio ein hunain: y ffaith ein bod yn rhoi caniatâd cynllunio i'r cwmnïau tai hyn i gael y budrelw hwn ac i flingo'r bobl sy'n prynu'r tai hyn, ac mae'n rhaid i ni edrych ar ddewisiadau eraill o ran adeiladu tai, boed hynny'n adeiladu tai cydweithredol, boed yn sefydlu ein cwmnïau ein hunain o ran hynny. Ac rwy'n gwybod, Gweinidog, eich bod yn gefnogol iawn o'r mathau hyn o bethau, ond rwy'n credu bod yr amser wedi dod nawr, yng Nghymru, pan rwy'n credu y gallwn ni ddweud, 'Digon yw digon; ni all hyn barhau mwyach.' Dim ond un enghraifft yw Celestia o'r cwmnïau hyn. Maen nhw'n adeiladu'r tai, maen nhw'n casglu'r elw, yna nid ydyn nhw'n derbyn unrhyw gyfrifoldeb amdanynt yn ddiweddarach, ac mae'r lesddaliad yn sgandal arall. Ac rwy'n dal i fod o'r farn y dylem ni wahardd unrhyw dai prydles pellach. Mae pethau eraill na allwn ni eu gwneud. Felly, Gweinidog, y cyfan y byddwn i'n ei ofyn yw eich bod yn rhoi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i bolisi tai moesegol, cynhwysfawr, ond hefyd i edrych ar hyn o bryd ar y bobl hynny, er enghraifft, yn Celestia sydd â'r problemau penodol hyn, i wneud yr hyn a allwch chi i ddod â'r cwmnïau tai hyn gyda'i gilydd, i guro eu pennau gyda'i gilydd a gwneud iddyn nhw dderbyn y cyfrifoldebau y dylen nhw fod yn ei chymryd. Mae'n un peth i'w ddweud, 'byddwn ni'n eu henwi ac yn eu cywilyddio', rwy'n credu eu bod wedi cael eu cywilyddio ac nid wyf yn credu eu bod yn poeni gymaint â hynny mwyach. Ond, yn sicr, pa bynnag bwysau - . Ac, a dweud y gwir, os na allan nhw gydymffurfio, os na allan nhw gyflawni'r safonau y dylen nhw, yna, yn sicr, a ddylem ni fod yn caniatáu iddyn nhw adeiladu tai yng Nghymru, a ddylai'r system gynllunio, rywsut, ddweud, 'Os na allwch chi ymrwymo i'r safonau moesegol hyn, yna nid ydym ni eisiau i chi adeiladu tai yma yng Nghymru.'