English: Because this is not a new debate. Like last week, with St David's Day, we have been here before, and, let me say this quietly to you over there, it has previously had Tory support. Back in the early 1990s, Lord Hunt, the then Secretary of State for Wales, had come to an agreement with Ken Clarke, the Home Secretary, to devolve justice to the Welsh Office. Now, that was stopped because of the bureaucracy of the Home Office, the empire building within the Home Office - civil servants did not want to let it go. But the Conservative Party, back in the 1990s, were in favour of devolving it, and if it had been, we wouldn't have this debate now, it would already have been devolved. And do you remember Boris Johnson in 2014? He wasn't just satisfied with policing, he wanted the whole criminal justice system devolved to London. Where's the logic there that he wants all the criminal justice devolved to London, but we can't even have policing here in Wales? Whatever Mark Isherwood says, it does have the support of police officers at every level. Look at the brief, Mark Isherwood, we had from the Police Federation, the shift that's happened since the Silk commission, they are now - . Even though still in neutral stance, the question they're asking now is, 'Why shouldn't it be devolved?' It's a huge shift, and it has the support of every PCC, and, despite their neutral stance, the support of every chief constable in Wales. Peter Vaughan, the highly respected former chief constable of South Wales Police has been a firm advocate of the devolution of policing. Now, the cross-border issue that Mark Isherwood has raised once again - it is incredible. This is the same party that last week voted in favour of St David's Day being a bank holiday in Wales, separate to England. Just imagine the chaos: a bank holiday in Wales on 1 March and not in England. Look at the cross-border chaos that would create. And, gosh, what about Luxembourg? How do they survive with their own police force? Now, as John Griffiths, as Mike Hedges, as Alun Davies has reminded us, policing is not an island, it's not isolated - it's completely aligned with sectors that are devolved to this place. Every 13 minutes, South Wales Police receives a report relating to a mental health issue, and of those incidents, which police officers have to attend, only 4 per cent require the exercise of police powers. Now, funding - funding hasn't been mentioned this afternoon. Funding of the police in Wales is very complex, and Alun Davies alluded to this - the lack of accountability that leads to. Now, funding comes from the Home Office, from the Welsh Government as part of the local government finance settlement, and, thirdly, from local police precept, and finally from the Welsh Government, as Mike Hedges said, funding the 600 community support officers. More funding comes from Wales through the police forces than from the Home Office: 67 per cent of the funding of Welsh police forces comes from Wales, and yet there's a lack of accountability in this place. Now, £113.47 million will be spent in the next budget year on Welsh police forces - Welsh Government money. And through Welsh Government funding, and not setting a limit on council tax precept, we have not seen the huge cut in police numbers in Wales that we saw in England. Now, finally, the political symmetry argument. I've not heard a single good argument why policing is devolved to Greater Manchester and London and not to Wales. If there are cross-border issues, Mark, in Wales, what about Greater Manchester and London? Go on, Mark.
Welsh: Oherwydd nid yw hon yn ddadl newydd. Yr wythnos diwethaf, gyda Dydd Gŵyl Dewi, rydym wedi bod yma o'r blaen, a gadewch imi ddweud hyn yn dawel wrthych, mae wedi cael cefnogaeth y Torïaid yn y gorffennol. Yn ôl ar ddechrau'r 1990au, roedd yr Arglwydd Hunt, Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ar y pryd, wedi dod i gytundeb gyda Ken Clarke, yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref, i ddatganoli cyfiawnder i'r Swyddfa Gymreig. Nawr, rhoddwyd diwedd ar hynny oherwydd biwrocratiaeth y Swyddfa Gartref, yr awydd i ehangu terfynau o fewn y Swyddfa Gartref - nid oedd gweision sifil eisiau gadael iddo fynd. Ond roedd y Blaid Geidwadol, yn ôl yn y 1990au, o blaid ei ddatganoli, a phe bai wedi cael ei ddatganoli, ni fyddem yn cael y ddadl hon yn awr, byddai eisoes wedi'i ddatganoli. Ac a ydych yn cofio Boris Johnson yn 2014? Nid oedd yn fodlon â phlismona yn unig, roedd eisiau datganoli'r system cyfiawnder troseddol gyfan i Lundain. Ble mae'r rhesymeg yno, ei fod eisiau datganoli'r system cyfiawnder troseddol gyfan i Lundain, ond ni allwn ddatganoli plismona hyd yn oed i Gymru? Beth bynnag a ddywed Mark Isherwood, mae'n ennyn cefnogaeth swyddogion yr heddlu ar bob lefel. Edrychwch ar y briff, Mark Isherwood, a gawsom gan Ffederasiwn yr Heddlu, y newid sydd wedi digwydd ers comisiwn Silk, maent yn awr - . Er eu bod yn dal i fod yn niwtral, y cwestiwn y maent yn ei ofyn yn awr yw, 'Pam na ddylid ei ddatganoli?' Mae'n newid enfawr, ac mae wedi'i gefnogi gan bob comisiynydd heddlu a throseddu, ac er eu bod yn niwtral, cefnogaeth pob prif gwnstabl yng Nghymru. Mae Peter Vaughan, cyn brif gwnstabl uchel ei barch Heddlu De Cymru wedi dadlau'n gryf dros ddatganoli plismona. Nawr, y mater trawsffiniol y mae Mark Isherwood wedi'i godi unwaith eto - mae'n anhygoel. Dyma'r un blaid a bleidleisiodd yr wythnos diwethaf o blaid gwneud Dydd Gŵyl Dewi yn ŵyl banc yng Nghymru, ar wahân i Loegr. Dychmygwch yr anhrefn: gŵyl banc yng Nghymru ar 1 Mawrth ac nid yn Lloegr. Edrychwch ar yr anhrefn trawsffiniol y byddai hynny'n ei greu. A mawredd, beth am Lwcsembwrg? Sut y maent yn goroesi gyda'u heddlu eu hunain? Nawr, fel y mae John Griffiths, Mike Hedges, Alun Davies wedi ein hatgoffa, nid ynys yw plismona, nid yw wedi'i ynysu - mae'n cydgysylltu'n llwyr â sectorau sydd wedi'u datganoli i'r lle hwn. Bob 13 munud, mae Heddlu De Cymru yn cael adroddiad sy'n ymwneud â mater iechyd meddwl, ac o'r digwyddiadau y mae'n rhaid i swyddogion yr heddlu ymdrin â hwy, nid oes ond angen arfer pwerau'r heddlu mewn 4 y cant ohonynt. Nawr, cyllid - nid yw cyllid wedi'i grybwyll y prynhawn yma. Mae ariannu'r heddlu yng Nghymru yn gymhleth iawn, a chyfeiriodd Alun Davies at hyn - y diffyg atebolrwydd sy'n deillio o hynny. Nawr, daw arian o'r Swyddfa Gartref, o Lywodraeth Cymru fel rhan o'r setliad cyllid i lywodraeth leol, ac yn drydydd, o braesept heddlu lleol, ac yn olaf gan Lywodraeth Cymru, fel y dywedodd Mike Hedges, sy'n ariannu'r 600 o swyddogion cymorth cymunedol. Mae mwy o arian yn dod o Gymru drwy'r heddluoedd nag o'r Swyddfa Gartref: daw 67 y cant o gyllid heddluoedd Cymru o Gymru, ac eto mae diffyg atebolrwydd yn y lle hwn. Nawr, bydd £113.47 miliwn yn cael ei wario yn y flwyddyn gyllidebol nesaf ar heddluoedd Cymru - arian Llywodraeth Cymru. A thrwy gyllid gan Lywodraeth Cymru, a pheidio â phennu terfyn ar braesept y dreth gyngor, nid ydym wedi gweld y toriad enfawr a welsom yn Lloegr yn niferoedd swyddogion yr heddlu yng Nghymru. Nawr, yn olaf, y ddadl ar gymesuredd gwleidyddol. Nid wyf wedi clywed un rheswm da pam fod plismona wedi'i ddatganoli i Fanceinion Fwyaf a Llundain ac nid i Gymru. Os oes materion trawsffiniol yn codi yng Nghymru, Mark, beth am Fanceinion Fwyaf a Llundain? Ewch ymlaen, Mark.