English: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I thank the Minister for opening this debate? I'm pleased to contribute to it, and to agree, in fact, with many - though not all, as you would not be surprised to hear me say - of the points that have been made, but, nonetheless, many of the points you did make were something that, I think, we could all agree with, Minister, in terms of developing a system that is fair, that guarantees future funding to Wales, that mitigates some of the uncertainties of the Brexit process, of which we're all aware, and ultimately delivers effective funding for Wales that can be relied upon both by the Welsh Government and by the people of Wales and by businesses. The motion recognises that Wales receives around £370 million every year in structural and investment funds as a result of the UK's membership of the EU and also calls on us to remember the promises made during the EU referendum that Wales would not lose a penny as a result of Wales leaving the EU. That is something we would all want to achieve. However you phrase it and whatever language you use, it's emotive saying about not losing a penny, but the point is well made that we were promised that Wales would financially not be worse off in terms of replacement European funding after the Brexit process is completed, and that's something that we on this side believe should happen. Wales should continue to receive the financial support that we need. On the matter of the shared prosperity fund, which is explicitly mentioned within the motion, yes, of course we would all like to see more detail on that fund and at the earliest opportunity. That is, clearly, imperative. I do think, however, that to simply write the fund off in whatever form it may be at the moment, as this motion seems to try to do, is, I would say, unwise and unrealistic. It is at least an attempt to try and replace European funding with a mechanism that is fair and that not just supports - there's an attempt to do that - Wales and Scotland and the nations of the UK, but also the regions of the UK. I believe that was the original principle behind it. And as the Minister herself said, currently there are unanswered questions, which we would accept and I think that the UK Government would accept, which have yet to be ironed out, and only when those are ironed out and we can see the final form of that UK prosperity fund that we can say, 'Okay, it isn't going to deliver in the way that we want', or we'll be able to say that it does go a significant way along that course to delivering the sort of support that Wales needs. In principle, it's a good idea, but it does have to be seen as compatible with devolution, and that was a point that the Minister made. I think, throughout all of this debate and discussion, we've had this ongoing argument about whether - . On the one hand, you've got a UK prosperity fund. How is that compatible with devolution? Is there some sort of rowing back of devolution? That was never the understanding at the start of this process, about how this would proceed, and that should certainly not be the case. The replacement of EU funds should not lead to a rowing back of devolution and of the powers of this Assembly. That was not what we anticipated and that was not what the people of Wales voted for.
Welsh: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, ac a gaf fi ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am agor y ddadl hon? Rwyf yn falch o gyfrannu ati, ac o gytuno, mewn gwirionedd, â sawl un - ond nid pob un, fel na fyddwch yn synnu fy nghlywed i'n ei ddweud - o'r pwyntiau sydd wedi eu gwneud, ond, er hynny, roedd nifer o'r pwyntiau a wnaethoch yn rhywbeth, fe gredaf, y gallai pob un ohonom ni gytuno â nhw, Gweinidog, o ran datblygu system sy'n deg, sy'n gwarantu cyllid i Gymru yn y dyfodol, sy'n lliniaru rhywfaint o ansicrwydd y broses Brexit, yr ydym ni i gyd yn ymwybodol ohono, ac sydd yn y pen draw yn darparu cyllid effeithiol i Gymru y gellir dibynnu arno gan Lywodraeth Cymru a gan bobl Cymru a gan fusnesau. Mae'r cynnig yn cydnabod bod Cymru yn cael tua £370 miliwn bob blwyddyn mewn cronfeydd strwythurol a chronfeydd buddsoddi o ganlyniad i aelodaeth y DU o'r UE ac mae hefyd yn galw arnom ni i gofio'r addewidion a wnaed yn ystod refferendwm yr UE na fyddai Cymru'n colli ceiniog o ganlyniad i Gymru'n gadael yr UE. Mae hynny'n rhywbeth y byddem ni i gyd yn awyddus i'w gyflawni. Pa ffordd bynnag yr ydych yn ei eirio a pha iaith bynnag yr ydych yn ei defnyddio, mae sôn am beidio colli ceiniog yn achosi cynnwrf, ond mae'r pwynt wedi'i wneud yn dda ein bod wedi cael addewid na fyddai Cymru ar ei cholled yn ariannol o ran yr arian y byddem yn ei gael yn lle'r arian Ewropeaidd ar ôl i'r broses Brexit ddod i ben, ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth yr ydym ni ar yr ochr hon yn credu y dylai ddigwydd. Dylai Cymru barhau i gael y cymorth ariannol sydd ei angen arnom ni. O ran mater y gronfa ffyniant gyffredin, y sonnir amdani'n benodol yn y cynnig, wrth gwrs y byddem i gyd yn hoffi gweld mwy o fanylion am y gronfa honno ac ar y cyfle cyntaf. Yn amlwg, mae hynny'n hanfodol yn fy marn i, ond er hynny, rwy'n credu ei fod yn annoeth ac afrealistig i ddiystyru'r gronfa'n llwyr ar ba wedd bynnag y mae hi ar hyn o bryd, fel y mae'n ymddangos bod y cynnig hwn yn ceisio ei wneud. Mae o leiaf yn ymgais i geisio disodli cyllid Ewropeaidd gyda mecanwaith sy'n deg ac sydd nid yn unig yn cefnogi - mae yna ymgais i wneud hynny - Cymru a'r Alban a chenhedloedd y DU, ond hefyd rhanbarthau'r DU. Credaf mai dyna oedd yr egwyddor wreiddiol y tu ôl i hyn. Ac fel y dywedodd y Gweinidog ei hun, ar hyn o bryd mae cwestiynau heb eu hateb, yr ydym ni'n ei dderbyn, ac rwy'n credu y byddai Llywodraeth y DU yn ei dderbyn, nad ydyn nhw wedi'u datrys eto, a dim ond pan gaiff y rheini eu datrys ac y gallwn ni weld ffurf derfynol ar gronfa ffyniant y DU y gallwn ni ddweud, 'O'r gorau, nid yw'n mynd i ddarparu yn y ffordd y dymunwn', neu byddwn yn gallu dweud ei fod yn mynd yn bell ar hyd y ffordd tuag at ddarparu'r math o gefnogaeth y mae ei hangen ar Gymru. Mewn egwyddor, mae'n syniad da, ond mae'n rhaid iddo gael ei weld fel un sy'n gydnaws â datganoli, ac roedd hwnnw'n bwynt a wnaeth y Gweinidog, rwy'n credu, drwy gydol yr holl ddadl a thrafodaeth hon, rydym ni wedi cael y ddadl barhaus hon ynghylch pa un a ddylid - . Ar y naill law, mae gennych chi gronfa ffyniant y DU. Sut y mae hynny'n gydnaws â datganoli? A oes rhyw fath o dynnu yn ôl ar ddatganoli? Nid dyna oedd y ddealltwriaeth o gwbl ar ddechrau'r broses hon, ynglŷn â sut y byddai hyn yn mynd rhagddo, ac yn sicr ni ddylai hynny fod yn wir. Ni ddylai disodli arian yr UE arwain at dynnu datganoli a phwerau'r Cynulliad hwn yn ôl. Nid dyna yr oeddem ni wedi'i ragweld ac nid dyna wnaeth pobl Cymru bleidleisio drosto.