English: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'll start my contribution very much where John Griffiths finished his, by agreeing very much with the points that John made in his contribution but also in the, I think, very strong consensus there's been on all sides of the Chamber this afternoon. I will say, Deputy Presiding Officer, that the Welsh Government will be supporting the motion this afternoon. I hope that goes some way towards answering Bethan Sayed's request for a clear policy on this area, and I will say to Members that it's something that I recognise there's a very clear demand for further policy on and I will be seeking to bring a statement to this Chamber on these matters in due course. I will also say this: I agree with the points that have been made by many Members - I think Julie Morgan made the points very clearly - that the current settlement is a broken settlement; it is not delivering a holistic policy; it demonstrates a constitutional settlement that doesn't work. It's important to recognise that this doesn't work for anyone. It doesn't allow either the Home Office or the Ministry of Justice to deliver their policies easily in Wales, and it doesn't allow us to develop a policy either. So, this is not a settlement that fails to work just for us and the people we serve; it fails to work for the United Kingdom as a whole. And for that reason the settlement, I hope, will be revisited. I don't want to prejudge the issues of the justice commission that will look at many of these issues, but I will say that, as a Minister who is active in this area, we do not have either a policy framework, the powers or the ability to deliver a holistic policy, and unfortunately neither does the United Kingdom Government either, so there is real failure in this area. Members on all sides of the Chamber outlined very well how many of the services that are required to manage offenders and ex-offenders to promote rehabilitation are themselves devolved but that we do not have the powers required. David Melding's point about Northern Ireland and Scotland, I thought, was a very, very interesting point, and it's certainly one that I would wish to take up in the future. I will also say that the points made by Jenny Rathbone in her opening speech, which were also reiterated by David Rees, about some of the prison conditions in Wales are very, very well made. I visited Her Majesty's Prison Swansea in February, and I saw for myself the conditions in which too many Welsh men are being held. I've also discussed and highlighted the concerns in the inspection report with Her Majesty's chief inspector of prisons when we met last month, and I have to say that he was very positive in his response to the points I was making and he recognised the very real difficulties facing prisoners on some parts of the Welsh estate. It is absolutely wrong that we have Welsh men held in conditions that are not fit for purpose. Prisoners' partners and children should not have to visit them in institutions that cannot fully respect the human dignity of both prisoners and their families. I am concerned that we do not have the ability to join up policy in Her Majesty's Prison and Probation Service in Wales, and I'm concerned that we do not have the ability to deliver coherent policy responses for people. We have, however, sought to develop a framework to support positive change for those who are at risk of offending in Wales with the probation service. The purpose of the framework is to improve services for those at risk of entering or are already in the criminal justice system. The framework will also promote continued collaboration in order to further reduce the number of offenders entering the criminal justice system, support offenders not to reoffend and keep communities safe. A number of Members have referred to the Corston report and to female offending. The Corston report, published over a decade ago, argues that equal outcomes for female offenders necessitate a different approach to that for their male counterparts. I agree very much with the points that have been made, particularly by Jenny Rathbone and Julie Morgan, in terms of ensuring that we do not move down the road of simply saying, 'We want a women's prison in Wales', but, actually, what we need is a different sort of facility that performs a different role in a different way, and that's a very different policy, and I recognise the points that have been made. And I think the points that were made regarding female imprisonment, with many women being given summary sentences for offences that, in many cases, would not result in imprisonment for men are well made. Those short-term sentences can have long-term impacts, in many cases leading to a woman losing her tenancy and may result in children being taken into residential care. This results in additional support for devolved services, risking exposure to further adverse childhood experiences for the children of offenders. I understand that the United Kingdom Government will announce changes to the way in which female offenders are managed, including, potentially, a different secure estate for women. It is previously indicated that there needs to be changes in the wider probation service. I hope that we will be able to ensure that in Wales we are able to take the approach that's been outlined by Members on all sides of the Chamber this afternoon. Deputy Presiding Officer, I have had discussions with the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice in relation to female offending and youth justice, and we have agreed that our officials should work together to explore such work to develop proposals on how a different justice system would operate in Wales. I think we do need to begin to answer the question that was put to us by David Rees as to what a Welsh penal policy would begin to look like. The point he made to the First Minister yesterday was well made, and I felt that the First Minister indicated in his response yesterday that he wanted to look at how we would begin to develop a Welsh penal policy. For me, Deputy Presiding Officer, I would like to see a system predicated on the basis of early intervention and prevention, considering how we can further divert people away from crime in the first place, but where we do have to work with offenders, that we do so in an holistic and rehabilitative way. I agree absolutely with the points made by David Rees on smaller institutions, and certainly, I think, if we are to look at a Welsh penal policy, that the focus should be on rehabilitation, on skills, on training, on enabling people to play a full role in our communities and our society. We understand the need, as David Melding said very clearly, for a punitive element to imprisonment; we recognise that. However, the purpose is then not to pursue that, but to give people the opportunity, then, to play a full role in our society, and that is why I'm proposing that we do enable prisoners who are on short-term sentences to vote in our elections. They will be able to continue to play a part in shaping that policy - those communities. We have made our position as a Government on this matter clear in our draft Government and Laws in Wales Bill, and our position has not changed. This Bill provided for the immediate creation of a distinct Welsh legal jurisdiction, with Wales and England sharing judiciary and court services and the devolution of policing civil and criminal law, and the administration of justice from 2026. The UK Government's Bill, which became the Wales Act, failed to respond to our Bill and did not address the crucial issues of jurisdiction and justice, which I think we all believe require urgent attention. The First Minister's established a justice commission, chaired by Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, to undertake a fundamental review of the justice system in Wales and how to strengthen it in the long term. I would oppose sending anyone to prison unnecessarily. Equally, however, we do need to protect our communities from harm, and prisons clearly have a role to play in that. We cannot pre-empt the conclusions of the justice committee, but we do need to ensure that we do begin the work of developing a justice policy. Can I say, in closing, Deputy Presiding Officer, a justice policy, for me, is part of our overall approach to safer and cohesive communities? A justice policy that is holistic, that seeks to bring people together and does not seek to simply incarcerate people - it's a justice policy that is based on some of our work on safer communities, and we do need to have a frank and open conversation with UK departments about what a different approach in Wales would involve. We have begun those conversations with the Ministry of Justice, and I look forward to concluding those conversations and the development of a Welsh penal policy that puts the future and cohesion of our communities at its heart.
Welsh: Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwyf am ddechrau fy nghyfraniad i raddau helaeth lle y gorffennodd John Griffiths ei gyfraniad ef, drwy gytuno'n gryf iawn â'r pwyntiau a wnaeth John yn ei gyfraniad, ond hefyd, rwy'n meddwl, gyda'r consensws cryf iawn ar bob ochr i'r Siambr y prynhawn yma. Hoffwn ddweud, Ddirprwy Lywydd, y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi'r cynnig y prynhawn yma. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hynny'n mynd rywfaint o'r ffordd tuag at ateb cais Bethan Sayed am bolisi clir yn y maes hwn, a hoffwn ddweud wrth yr Aelodau fy mod yn cydnabod bod galw clir iawn am bolisi pellach ar hyn a byddaf yn ceisio gwneud datganiad i'r Siambr ar y materion hyn maes o law. Hoffwn ddweud hyn hefyd: rwy'n cytuno â'r pwyntiau a wnaed gan lawer o'r Aelodau - credaf fod Julie Morgan wedi gwneud y pwyntiau'n glir iawn - fod y setliad presennol yn setliad toredig; nid yw'n cynhyrchu polisi cyfannol; mae'n dangos setliad cyfansoddiadol nad yw'n gweithio. Mae'n bwysig cydnabod nad yw hyn yn gweithio i unrhyw un. Nid yw'n caniatáu i'r Swyddfa Gartref na'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder gyflawni eu polisau'n hawdd yng Nghymru, ac nid yw'n caniatáu inni ddatblygu polisi chwaith. Felly, nid setliad nad yw'n gweithio i ni ac i'r bobl rydym yn eu gwasanaethu'n unig yw hwn; nid yw'n gweithio i'r Deyrnas Unedig yn ei chyfanrwydd. Ac am y rheswm hwnnw rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y setliad yn cael ei ailystyried. Nid wyf eisiau achub y blaen ar faterion y comisiwn cyfiawnder a fydd yn edrych ar lawer o'r materion hyn, ond hoffwn ddweud, fel y Gweinidog sy'n weithredol yn y maes hwn, nad oes gennym fframwaith polisi, y pwerau na'r gallu i ddarparu polisi cyfannol, ac yn anffodus nid yw Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn meddu ar y rheini chwaith, felly ceir methiant gwirioneddol yn y maes hwn. Amlinellodd Aelodau ar bob ochr i'r Siambr yn dda iawn sut y mae llawer o'r gwasanaethau sydd eu hangen i reoli troseddwyr a chyn-droseddwyr er mwyn hyrwyddo adsefydlu eu hunain wedi'u datganoli, ond nad oes gennym y pwerau sydd eu hangen. Roeddwn yn meddwl bod pwynt David Melding am Ogledd Iwerddon a'r Alban yn bwynt diddorol tu hwnt ac mae'n sicr yn un yr hoffwn fynd ar ei drywydd yn y dyfodol. Hoffwn ddweud hefyd fod y pwyntiau a wnaeth Jenny Rathbone yn ei haraith agoriadol, ac a ailadroddwyd hefyd gan David Rees, am gyflwr carchardai yng Nghymru, yn rhai da iawn. Ymwelais â Charchar ei Mawrhydi Abertawe ym mis Chwefror, a gwelais drosof fy hun yr amgylchiadau lle y cedwir gormod o ddynion Cymru. Hefyd rwyf wedi trafod ac wedi tynnu sylw at y pryderon yn adroddiad yr arolygiad gyda phrif arolygydd carchardai ei Mawrhydi pan gawsom gyfarfod y mis diwethaf, a rhaid imi ddweud ei fod yn gadarnhaol iawn yn ei ymateb i'r pwyntiau a wnawn a chydnabu'r anawsterau real iawn sy'n wynebu carcharorion mewn rhai rhannau o'r ystâd yng Nghymru. Nid yw'n iawn o gwbl fod gennym ddynion o Gymru yn cael eu cadw mewn amgylchiadau nad ydynt yn addas at y diben. Ni ddylai partneriaid a phlant carcharorion orfod ymweld â hwy mewn sefydliadau na all barchu urddas carcharorion a'u teuluoedd yn iawn. Rwy'n bryderus nad oes gennym allu i gydgysylltu polisi yng Ngwasanaeth Carchardai a Phrofiannaeth ei Mawrhydi yng Nghymru, ac rwy'n bryderus nad oes gennym allu i ddarparu ymatebion polisi cydlynol ar gyfer pobl. Fodd bynnag, rydym wedi ceisio datblygu fframwaith i gefnogi newid cadarnhaol ar gyfer y rhai sydd mewn perygl o droseddu yng Nghymru gyda'r gwasanaeth profiannaeth. Diben y fframwaith yw gwella gwasanaethau ar gyfer rhai sydd mewn perygl o fynd i mewn neu sydd eisoes yn y system cyfiawnder troseddol. Bydd y fframwaith hefyd yn hyrwyddo cydweithredu parhaus er mwyn lleihau nifer y troseddwyr sy'n mynd i mewn i'r system cyfiawnder troseddol, cynorthwyo troseddwyr i beidio ag aildroseddu a chadw cymunedau'n ddiogel. Cyfeiriodd nifer o'r Aelodau at adroddiad Corston ac at droseddu ymhlith menywod. Mae adroddiad Corston, a gyhoeddwyd dros ddegawd yn ôl, yn dadlau bod canlyniadau cyfartal i droseddwyr benywaidd yn golygu bod angen dull gwahanol i'r hyn sy'n bodoli ar gyfer eu cymheiriaid gwrywaidd. Cytunaf yn fawr iawn â'r pwyntiau a wnaed, gan Jenny Rathbone a Julie Morgan yn arbennig, o ran sicrhau nad ydym yn mynd ar hyd y ffordd o ddweud yn syml, 'Rydym eisiau carchar i fenywod yng Nghymru', ond mewn gwirionedd, mai'r hyn sydd ei angen arnom yw math gwahanol o gyfleuster sy'n cyflawni rôl wahanol mewn ffordd wahanol, ac mae hwnnw'n bolisi gwahanol iawn, ac rwy'n cydnabod y pwyntiau a wnaed. Ac rwy'n credu bod y pwyntiau a wnaed ynghylch carcharu menywod, gyda llawer o fenywod yn cael dedfrydau diannod am droseddau na fyddent, mewn llawer o achosion, yn arwain at garchar yn achos dynion yn rhai da iawn. Gall dedfrydau byrdymor o'r fath arwain at effeithiau hirdymor, ac arwain mewn llawer o achosion at fenyw'n colli ei thenantiaeth a gallai hynny arwain at osod plant mewn gofal preswyl. Mae hyn yn arwain at gymorth ychwanegol ar gyfer gwasanaethau datganoledig, gan beri risg o ddod yn agored i brofiadau niweidiol pellach yn ystod plentyndod i blant troseddwyr. Rwy'n deall y bydd Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig yn cyhoeddi newidiadau i'r ffordd y rheolir troseddwyr benywaidd gan gynnwys, o bosibl, sefydliadau diogel gwahanol ar gyfer menywod. Nodwyd yn flaenorol fod angen newidiadau yn y gwasanaeth prawf ehangach. Rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn sicrhau yng Nghymru ein bod yn gallu mabwysiadu'r dull o weithredu a amlinellwyd gan Aelodau ar bob ochr i'r Siambr y prynhawn yma. Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwyf wedi cael trafodaethau gyda'r Is-ysgrifennydd Gwladol Seneddol dros Gyfiawnder mewn perthynas â throseddwyr benywaidd a chyfiawnder ieuenctid, ac rydym wedi cytuno y dylai ein swyddogion weithio gyda'i gilydd i archwilio gwaith o'r fath er mwyn datblygu cynigion ar sut y byddai system gyfiawnder wahanol yn gweithredu yng Nghymru. Credaf fod angen inni ddechrau ateb y cwestiwn a gyflwynwyd i ni gan David Rees ynglŷn â sut beth fyddai polisi cosbi Cymreig yn ei hanfod. Gwnaeth bwynt da iawn i'r Prif Weinidog ddoe, ac roeddwn yn teimlo bod y Prif Weinidog wedi nodi yn ei ymateb ddoe ei fod eisiau edrych ar sut y byddem yn dechrau datblygu polisi cosbi ar gyfer Cymru. I mi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, hoffwn weld system yn seiliedig ar ymyrraeth gynnar ac atal, gan ystyried sut y gallwn annog pobl i droi cefn ar droseddu yn y lle cyntaf, ond lle bydd yn rhaid inni weithio gyda throseddwyr, ein bod yn gwneud hynny mewn modd cyfannol sy'n canolbwyntio ar adsefydlu. Cytunaf yn llwyr â'r pwyntiau a wnaeth David Rees ar sefydliadau llai, ac yn sicr, rwy'n credu, os ydym yn mynd i edrych ar bolisi cosbi ar gyfer Cymru, y dylid canolbwyntio ar adsefydlu, ar sgiliau, ar hyfforddiant, ar alluogi pobl i chwarae rhan lawn yn ein cymunedau ac yn ein cymdeithas. Rydym yn deall yr angen, fel y dywedodd David Melding yn glir iawn, am elfen gosbol i garcharu; rydym yn cydnabod hynny. Fodd bynnag, y diben felly yw peidio â mynd ar drywydd hynny, ond rhoi cyfle i bobl, wedyn, i chwarae rhan lawn yn ein cymdeithas, a dyna pam rwy'n cynnig ein bod yn galluogi carcharorion sy'n bwrw dedfrydau byrdymor i bleidleisio yn ein hetholiadau. Byddant yn gallu parhau i chwarae rhan yn llunio'r polisi hwnnw - y cymunedau hynny. Rydym wedi gwneud ein safbwynt fel Llywodraeth ar y mater hwn yn glir yn ein Bil Llywodraeth a Chyfreithiau yng Nghymru drafft, ac nid yw ein safbwynt wedi newid. Roedd y Bil hwn yn darparu ar gyfer creu awdurdodaeth gyfreithiol neilltuol i Gymru ar unwaith, gyda Chymru a Lloegr yn rhannu gwasanaethau'r farnwriaeth a'r llysoedd a datganoli cyfraith sifil a chyfraith droseddol, a gweinyddu cyfiawnder o 2026 ymlaen. Methodd Bil Llywodraeth y DU, a ddaeth yn Ddeddf Cymru, ymateb i'n Bil ni ac ni aeth i'r afael â materion hanfodol awdurdodaeth a chyfiawnder, y credaf fod pawb ohonom o'r farn eu bod yn galw am sylw ar frys. Sefydlodd y Prif Weinidog gomisiwn cyfiawnder, a gadeirir gan yr Arglwydd Thomas o Cwmgiedd, i gynnal adolygiad sylfaenol o'r system gyfiawnder yng Nghymru a sut i'w chryfhau yn y tymor hir. Buaswn yn gwrthwynebu carcharu unrhyw un yn ddiangen. Yn yr un modd, fodd bynnag, mae angen inni warchod ein cymunedau rhag niwed, ac yn amlwg, mae gan garchardai rôl glir i'w chwarae yn hynny. Ni allaf achub y blaen ar gasgliadau'r pwyllgor cyfiawnder, ond mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn dechrau ar y gwaith o ddatblygu polisi cyfiawnder. A gaf fi ddweud, wrth gloi, Ddirprwy Lywydd, fod polisi cyfiawnder, i mi, yn rhan o'n hymagwedd gyffredinol at gymunedau mwy diogel a chydlynol? Mae polisi cyfiawnder sy'n gyfannol, sy'n ceisio dod â phobl at ei gilydd ac sy'n gwneud mwy na charcharu pobl yn unig - mae'n bolisi cyfiawnder sy'n seiliedig ar beth o'n gwaith ar gymunedau mwy diogel, ac mae angen inni gael trafodaeth onest ac agored gydag adrannau'r DU ynglŷn â beth y byddai dull gwahanol yng Nghymru yn ei olygu. Rydym wedi dechrau'r sgyrsiau hynny gyda'r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder, ac edrychaf ymlaen at gwblhau'r sgyrsiau a datblygu polisi cosbi Cymreig sy'n gosod dyfodol a chydlyniant ein cymunedau wrth ei wraidd.