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Oral history transcripts NAU.OH.97.68.26A Frances O’Campo Ramírez and Andrés Ramirez Interviewed by Delia Muñoz November 8, 1998 English Translation Muñoz:... Delia Ceballos Muñoz and the time is 3:45 and today’s date is November 8, 1998. I’m here with, NAU Special Collections and Archives working on the Oral History Project. And Frances, I’m going to have you go ahead and introduce yourself. Ramírez: What, just my name? Muñoz: Yeah. Ramírez: Frances Ramírez. Muñoz: Frances O’Campo Ramírez? Ramírez: Yeah. Muñoz: And your address? Ramírez: 1921 North Turquoise Drive. Muñoz: OK. And your date of birth? Ramírez: April 1st, 1919. Muñoz: OK, Frances, I’m going to start with -- by asking who your parents were, you want to introduce them? Ramírez: My mom was Milquiades O’Campo O’Campo, My dad was Juan O’Campo. Muñoz: O’Campo? OK, and where were they from? Ramírez: León, Guanajuato, México. Muñoz: OK, do you know what brought them to Flagstaff? Ramírez: Ah, I don’t have any idea. Muñoz: You never heard a story
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14 . , ã\'\ , , p ., "':!!I - "-1 ' ; \\\1l ,. 'C ( í' v ",.,".", ,.' . , ' \ . . , , · ',' " ,': I. · t . ..,' " '",' ," " . " " 0 \ 0 · ': ' ,". "',' \ ' , I " . '. . . lered, and this fellow started to run and the man in the gray hat pulled out a gun"-Barnum snatched an imag- inary pistol from under his armpit, pointed it at the corpse-"and he yelled 'Not this time, Spanish!' and he went bang! bang! bang! bang! and he said 'How do you like that?' and he looked at me and he went (Aaah!' and he dis- appeared and this gentleman was dead." Barnum was sweating heavily now from his leaps and snarls and the unaccus- tomed strain of talking so that a crowd of people could hear every word, and his eyes were rolling with excitement. "And it was allover," Barnum said dra- matically, "and this gentleman was ly- ing there looking up at me before you could blink your eyes." "J esus Christ!" one of the four lit- tle boys in the inner circle said in deep admiration. "Whoever you are," the small man said to Barnum, "you're a dope. Re- member I told you. Goodbye." And he pushed his way out of the crowd. A big man with a red face tapped Barnum's arm. He smiled engagingly at Barn um. "Did you really see it?" he asked. "Did I see it!" Barnum waved his hand. "The bullets went past my head." "What happened?" the red-faced man asked. "I was walking along," Barnum be- gan, while the red-faced man listened " , . m . r., ;';'üJ g 7 . . , , ." , . . t . . ' ,','II ,. I , " . . . .' 0, I, '.'. , , J. I). . with deep interest, "and this fellow was walking in front of me-" " L d , " 0 0 d d . h ou er 0 a VOIce crIe eep In t e crowd. "I was walking along," Barnum shouted, "and this fellow was walking in front of me and a man in a gray hat. .." And Barnum went through the story, with gestures, while the red- faced man listened with respect. "Y ou saw the murderer close up?" the red-faced man inquired. "Like you." Barnum stuck his face right next to the other man's. "You'd know his face again if you saw it?" " L o k . f ' " I e my WI e s. "Good," said the red-faced man, taking Barnum by the elbow and start- ing out through the crowd as the sirens of radio cars howled to a halt at the corner . "You'll come with me to the police station, and when we catch the murderer you'll identify him. You're a material witness. I sure am glad I found S " you, onny. B ARNUM sighed now as he thought of what had followed. For a whole year the murderer was not caught, and Barnum sat in jail and lost his wife and children and his job, and highwaymen and forgers beat him with mop han- dles and slop buckets. E very three days he would be taken down to look at some new collection of thugs. Each time he would have to shake his head because the man in the gray hat was not among them, and the young District Attorney would say, "You're one hell of a fine material witness, Barnum. Get him the hell out of here!," and the detectives would wearily drag him back to h 0 11 '" . v ' 0' h " IS ce. v e re pertectIn yu , the detectives would say when Barnum would ask to be freed. "Yuh wanna go out and have , em blow yer brains out? That was Sammy Spanish that was killed. He's an important figure. You know too much Take it easy. Y uh're gettin' yer three d ., h " squares a ay, aIn t yu _ "I don't know anything," Barnum would say wearily, in a low voice, as they locked him into his cell, but they never paid any attention. Luckily the Dis- trict Attorney got a good job with an insurance company and gave up looking for the mur- derer of Sammy Spanish. Otherwise Barnum was sure he'd have been kept until either he or the District Attorney died. \Valking aimlessly down the street, with the years behind him, homeless, wifeless, childless, jobless, Barnum sighed. He stood on a corner, rubbing his chin sadly, trying to decide which way to turn. A car swung around the corner past him, too close to a car parked just below the corner. There was the sound of the grating of fenders and then the forlorn wail of brakes and the crumpling of metal. -\ man jumped out of the parked car, waving his han ds. "\Vhere the hell do you think , . " h 0 d h d . you re gOIng 0 e cne to t e rIver of the other car, looking wildly at his smashed fender. "Lemme see your li- cence! Somebody's got to pay for that fender and it ain't going to be me, Broth- er!" While the reckless driver was get- ting out of his car, the owner of the dam- aged car turned sadly to Barnum. "Did you see that?" he asked. Barnum looked hurriedly at him, at the fender, at the street around him. " Oh " h O d " I d O d ' , no, e sal . I n t see any- h - " t Ing. And he turned and walked swiftly -IRWIN SHAW , away. . PYRRHIC VICTORY DEPARTMENT [From the liT orld-Telegram] The United States Army today has 200 pianos, donated \vithout any strings or ex- penses attached.
THE NEW YORKER laughed too. "Well, how about another drink," he said. " N · " h ld " 0, we gotta get gOIng, t e so Ier said. "J ust one more? You sure?" "Yeah, we gotta get going," the soldier said. "We were just going when you bought us that drink.. Lemme huy you a drink." "Skip It. The drinks were on nle." The soldier motioned to the bartend- er.. "Give him whatever he's drinking." He put a dollar bill on the bar. " F " " h . d H . d orget It, t e man saI. e trle to force the soldier to take back the 1110ney. The soldier shook his head. " ope," he said. "One good turn deserves an- other. " "Hey, what about the music?" the blonde said. "Look at all the nIce music I played." "We'll play it someplace else," the soldier said. He took her arnl and they walked toward the door. The bartend- er said so long and the fat man smiled and called "Good luck!" after them. The girl was singing, " 'Give me land, lots of land, that's where I wanna be, don't fence me in.'" She stopped as they reached the door. "Where we go- ing?" she asked. "Anyplace," the soldier said. -RAY \V ANDER, JR. . DE.P AI\. TME.NT OF CORRE.C TION .L-\USABLE FORKS, NE\\T YORK MARCH I 7, 1 945 The Editors, The Ne.w Yorker, DEAR SIRS: I AM sorry that the good fellow who wrote the Profile of Norman Rock- well in your issue of March 17th and discussed the confusion in the public mind between Rockwell and me got a remark of mine slightly but seriously wrong. I am made to have said: "I take off my hat to him, and so do ninety-nine people out of ever) hundred that I meet, east, west, south, north, who tell me that they love his work." If I ever said any- thing as trite as that, it is certainly be- neath The New Yorker to quote it. Please do me the favor of letting me . h " h " h say It my way, w IC was: ... w 0 tell me that they love my work." Judging by the rest of the article, I guess that the author really meant to do me a favor. Faithfully yours, ROCK\VELL KENT 67 ."':*-:, .; " .';.... "':'/ ," . rffiilJ ,:{fj ' , ,,:.,: ):: t .: ::'* ""::;;; :$ ;f.; :\ ì , " ' i. , .: ,, ' , ,i& :;:c-::_ ., ..: , .,.'., ::.),-:-; -1 J i d ,. , :: , , i " , ; , _ , ': , : , , :j , L , t;f li "<<"< '-iik J'v .. ,.. ...(. :-:': .", ,- '" '., ' ;: -- :: ",, f , !< f:+ y" ?M ;':" S;,., ,,^ '@,:,' '1 "J ];)';"' T Our Fifth Avenue Office, at 44th Street Particular Attention To Individual Service This Office gives special attention to meet- ing the banking and trust requirements of individuals. Exceptional standards of service, com- plete facilities, and convenient location are among the important advantages afforded to our many thousands of customers. W e shall he pleased to have you call and inquire ho,v we can serve you in connection with your personal checking account, the care of your securities, your estate, or other banking or trust matters that you may ,vish to discuss with us. Our booklet, Complete Servlce at a Con- venient Location, will be sent on request. Fifth Avenue Office Guarallty Trust Company of New York Fifth A venue at 44th Street ew )Tork 18 l11ember Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation Guaranty Safe Deposit Company (an affiliated Safe Deposit Company) affords complete Saf Deposit and Silver Storage facilities
traverse them, and the film's assorted portraits, reflec- tions, sketches, and eye-catching clothing have more reality than the empty, miserable characters to whom they lend identities. Antonioni's quietly audacious at- tempt to convey the inner workings of modern life is also a standard-issue romance-of exactly the sort that fills his heroines' minds. In Italian.-Richard Brody (MOMA; Oct. 29.) ANTICHRIST What are we meant to do with the new film from Lars von Trier? Stare in wonderment, stare in hor- ror, throw up, walk out, or laugh? Each response will have its adherents, and von Trier hasn't lost his talent for dividing an audience. Whether he can any longer tell a story without sliding off the rails is an- other matter. Consider his latest plot, in which a nameless married couple (Charlotte Gainsbourg and Willem Dafoe) lose a child when he wanders out of a window while they are having sex; in an effort to confront and assuage their grief, they head for a cabin in the woods, where the wife chooses to ex- press her feelings by the slightly unorthodox means of genital mutilation. This is done both actively and passively; it repels on purpose, but, worse still, it grabs all the attention and wrecks any sense of bal- ance in the movie-a shame, because von Trier, until now, has probed with a calmer intensity the desires that follow bereavement. He has also, in league with his director of photography, Anthony Dod Mantle, conjured all manner of startling and spectral images; ironically, the film is at its best when it swerves away from adult material and ventures into the fairy-tale landscapes of a child.-Anthony Lane (Reviewed in our issue of 10/26/09.) (In limited release.) CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY Capitalism, according to Michael Moore: a system of organized theft in which the rich forever rob the poor. Moore gathers random examples of greedy behavior-for instance, a juvenile-detention center in Pennsylvania that is run for profit, in which sen- tences for minor offenses are mysteriously extended. And he celebrates mini-revolts, as when the work- ers at Republic Windows and Doors, in Chicago, refused to leave when they were summarily fired. It's hard to quarrel with his anger over hardwork- ing Americans who are tossed out of a job or a house, or with his grief over the fate of his home town, Flint, Michigan, the subject of his first suc- cess, "Roger and Me," twenty years ago. Moore has never recovered emotionally from the closing of the G.M. plants there. In the movie's most touching mo- ment, he accompanies his father, now very old, as he stares in horror at the flattened wasteland where the plant he worked at once stood. But Moore is so mesmerized by Flint's tragedies that he thinks G.M. went bankrupt because it closed plants in the eighties. Modern capitalism, with its torrential flow of money across borders, is beyond him. It's a sad movie-funny in spots, but wounded and bewildered.-David Denby (10/5/09) (In wide release. ) COCO BEFORE CHANEL Fulfilling the promise of its title, Anne Fontaine's film lifts the veil on the early years of Gabrielle Chane!. This is no guarantee of the naked truth, since, as Chanel's biographers admit, she was ferociously adept at cloaking her unmodish past in legend and lies; but our heroine's progress, nonetheless, has an air of plau- sibility-from the small, suffering lass at the orphan- age to an unsuccessful tavern singer who segues smartly into a kept woman. The keepers are, first, a jolly landowner (Benoît Poelvoorde), and, second, a suspiciously smooth British heartbreaker named Boy (Alessandro Nivola). (Did Chanel, no fool, not real- ize that, under the rules of romance, you should never fall for a man called Boy?) These actors fare slightly better than Audrey Tautou, who launches into the lead role but seems unable to quell her natural cute- ness; the real Coco could not have achieved what she did, you feel, without being as hard as chrome. Fash- ion followers, panting to see some classic Chanel de- signs, may feel cheated, since the movie halts precisely as her business gets going; there is a curious after- thought, before the final credits, in which modern su- permodels traipse past the grande dame herself, but it's not clear what period---Dr what sort of ghostly fantasy-we are being invited to watch.-A.L. (9/28/09) (In wide release.) THE DAMNED UNITED A great real-life sports story-the brief and cata- strophic 1974 tenure of the arrogant, telegenic soc- cer coach Brian Clough at the helm of the best Brit- ish club, Leeds United-is here reduced to the lowest common denominator. Peter Morgan's script, based on a novel by David Peace, jumps around from 1968, when Clough's prior club, Derby County, first crossed paths with Leeds, to the mid-seventies, and the re- sult is too much information, and too little. Each seg- ment of the sprawling story feels boiled down to the bare minimum; the episodes that remain hook up in obvious ways and never dig deep into character or incident. The drama converges around Clough's per- sonal animosity toward Leeds's grizzled, beloved for- mer coach Don Revie (Colm Meaney) and his self- destructive ways of slaking his resentment. But Michael Sheen, as the flamboyant Clough, seems oddly tamped down and merely slick rather than ebullient; though T llllothy Spall is quietly hearty as Peter Taylor, Clough's second-in-command, the director, Tom Hooper, does his cast no favors by concluding with actual archi- val clips of Clough and Taylor. Their seductive vigor and devilish sparkle evoke depths unsounded by this superficial drama.-R.B. (In limited release.) AN EDUCATION Peter Sarsgaard gives his best performance yet as David Goldman, a London hustler of enormous charm who zips around town in a maroon sports car, and who seduces, slowly and patiently, a very bright sixteen-year-old girl-Jenny (Carey Mulli- gan), a student from suburban Twickenham who is hemmed in by her cautious parents and her school and is rather too easily dazzled by cham- pagne, a few dinner clubs, and a weekend in Paris. Based on a short memoir by the talented, acid- tongued journalist Lynn Barber (first published in Granta magazine), the movie is set in 1962, when England was gradually emerging from postwar austerities and the fabled antics of swinging Lon- don were just getting under way. Carey Mulligan is self-possessed, but what makes the movie un- usual is the strange innocence of Sarsgaard's se- ducer: David is a liar and swindler, but he is as eager as Jenny is for pleasures of every kind-he enjoys them as if for the first time. The novelist Nick Hornby did the adaptation; the director, Lone Scherfig, born in Denmark, is alive to the social nuances of class and money in England. With Emma Thompson as a formidable, stupid, anti-Semitic schoolmistress.-D.D. (10/19/09) (In wide release.) THE ERRAND BOY In this 1961 inside-Hollywood spoof, Jerry Lewis, as director and star, brings out the "id" in idiocy. He plays Morty Tashman, an adenoidal bumbler who, under the guise of a promotion to messen- ger, becomes a corporate spy for the geriatric blunderers who are running Paramutual Pictures into the ground. In a string of painful yet funny set pieces, Lewis uncovers the grotesque realities of daily life in Hollywood, and of modern life at large-from sexual subjection in crowded eleva- tors and the elegantly ritualized stupidity that passes for entertainment to the brazen arrogance of petty stars (one brilliant image matches the stars of "Bonanza" with a horse's backside). Mean- while, the browbeaten, humiliated, manipulated, lonesome Morty, subject to his latent rage, wreaks havoc on every system, rule, and institution, and unintentionally yet gleefully ruins production after production; the results mock the codes of every major genre (a majestic crane shot through the wreckage of a musical is itself a model of the form). Lewis's antics bring out his radically dem- ocratic politics: when the yearnings for power (il- lustrated in one famous pantomime routine), self- expression, and love are thwarted, the ordinary man becomes the great anarch-he doesn't make a revolution, but he does make a mess.-R.B. (BAM; Nov. 3.) GENTLEMEN BRONCOS Compared to this wildly inventive, audacious, and genre-swirling comedy, the director Jared Hess's first two films, "Napoleon Dynamite" and "Nacho Libre," are models of narrative sobriety. The story is straightforward enough: Benjamin (Michael Angarano), a lonely teen-ager being YOu r ticket to ride. Seven powerhouse productions- on stage this fall. Get your tickets today. La Damnation de Faust OCT 26, 30 NOV 5, 9, 14, 17 II Barbiere di Siviglia (The Barber of Seville) OCT 27,31 NOV 4,7 Turandot OCT 28,31 NOV 3,7,10,14,18,21 Aida OCT 29 NOV 2, 6 From the House of the Dead NOV 12, 16, 21, 24, 28 DEC 2, 5 II Trittico NOV 20, 25, 28 DEC 1, 5, 9, 12 Le Nozze di Figaro (The Marriage of Figaro) NOV 23,27, 30 DEC 4,8, 12 The Met ropolitan Opera metopera.org I 212-362-6000 PHOTO: NICHOLAS SAMARTIS/MET OPERA LISTEN TO METROPOLITAN SIRIUSf.i I {(()(M))) OPERA RADIO 24/7 ON SAT ELL I T E R" 0 I 0