BOSTON -- Prior to Thursday night's series finale versus Minnesota, manager John Farrell announced that Dustin Pedroia would not be in his starting lineup as they continue to monitor the left knee issues that have plagued the Red Sox second baseman.
Pedroia received treatment on the knee in the morning and afternoon before it was determined that he would be given a day of rest.
"With Pedey, we've got to monitor just how he reacts to some consistent play with the left knee, and try to stay ahead of it as best as possible," Farrell said. "He went through a number of treatments here this morning, as well as early afternoon. We felt it was best to give him a day to try and stay ahead of things."
Pedroia had arthroscopic surgery on the knee last October and missed three games in April after the Orioles' Manny Machado slid into it aggressively to try to break up a double play. On May 25, he was removed from a game versus the Rangers after dealing with pain in the same knee.
The former MVP has played in 61 of Boston's 78 games this season, and is hitting .295 with two home runs.
While his batting average is roughly what most would expect, Pedroia's power numbers are down, and his manager feels the lingering knee issues are playing a role in that aspect of his game.
"I don't know that he's had a consistent base in which to hit from," Farrell said. "I know he's tried to alter things a bit differently. The bat on the ball is still there, but when you don't hit with a consistent, firm base, I think it's going to affect the ability to drive the baseball. We've seen it in short spurts, but as good as he is with making in-game adjustments, based on how he feels, he's been able to accomplish it to a certain extent. That's ongoing."
Tzu-Wei Lin, who was called up from Double-A Portland last week, started at second for the first time* in Pedroia's place *Thursday.
Yeah jay is a far better player at this point. Unfortunately I have a feeling Ichiro won’t do so well and the nostalgia will wear off quickly for M’s fans. I hope I’m wrong he’s obviously immensely popular in Seattle.
I don’t Seattle will put him in a situation that exposes him too much. This in-part, a marketing, feel good thing. My guess, is that this will be his last season. Going out where it all started, Kuddos,
No they didn’t ! The Gordon trade was months ago ! Jay signed for $3 million by the way with the Rangers!
Bruce, if you were following the Mariners this offsason, you would know that there were multiple reports before the Gordon trade that Seattle was working on a deal with Jay. Some of them were reported here on MLBTR. Talks broke down because of his asking price (dollars and years) and at that point, they turned to Gordon.
It’s very likely Jay’s asking price has come down since then, but Seattle probably wasn’t interested in a 3-4.5 million dollar stopgap.
Obviously his asking price 3 months ago isn’t the same as his asking price this week. Please use logic.
Dee Gordon makes the Mariners a lot better than Jay, and they have him for 3 years of his prime. So yeah, he makes more and that’s okay. I don’t love the Ichiro signing but it’s not the end of the world as they will likely use him in a non starting role 4-5 days a week (according to Servais), and then probably even less when Gamel returns.
I was using logic! He said Jay was too expensive at $3 or 4.5 million as a stop gap , so they passed on him, yet they went
If you read his original post , he said they traded for Gordon because Jay was asking for too much money
and too many years ! Then he said Jay was a $3 or $4.5 stop gap. It doesn’t make any sense! Gordon makes more money than that!
Yes, bruce. They traded for a guy who’s 3 years younger, faster, and offers positional flexibility with better defense.
You’re also forgetting that Jay wasn’t asking for 4.5 million at that time. If he was asking 14 million on a 2 year deal, which is what MLBTR predicted, the gap wouldn’t have been so big.
Dee Gordon is better than Jon Jay and even if they signed Jon Jay instead, there still would have been a need for another outfielder when Gamel went down because they wouldn’t have had Dee Gordon.
But just for fun, let’s pretend they signed Jay instead of trading for Gordon and they didn’t sign Ichiro.
The initial need was for a starting outfielder. They addressed that need with Gordon instead of Jay.
Paying Ichiro beans leaves less of a dent than Jay would have (if he was even interested) at the price he agreed to with the Royals–where he won’t be a stopgap.
You should take a peak at the ZiPS projections for Jay and Ichiro, This might help give you a better idea of what Dipoto was thinking.
So they passed on him! Ok, but then they traded for a more expensive OF in Gordon! The other OF were not hurt at that time
Bruce, It has already been pointed out to you twice now that his asking price was higher 3 months ago. Jay was too expensive in way of dollars and years at that point 3 months ago. I can’t make that any more clear.
And you’re still dodging my question. If they had signed Jay at that time instead of Gordon, who would/could they target now to fill in for Gamel?
I’m not dodging anything ! I’m just proving you were wrong about your original statement about Gordon and Jay! The current Of that are hurt has nothing to do with that statement at all! They were not even in the equation at that point! They have nothing to do with the past at all! You are the one that’s upset that you got called out
Bruce, maybe you’ve been in the cave too long. You haven’t proved anything other than your inability to comprehend what’s being laid out crystal-clear.
I’m not sure it’s about who is better, Ichiro or Jay. Who is better, Gamel or Ichiro or Jay. Gamel is cheaper and as good if not better than Jay. where does Jay go in 2 months when Gamel is back on the 25 man? Gamel is 2 years away from arbitration. Jay is in line for $millions.
Gamel absolutely cratered in the second half. Hopefully he’s better than jay. Jay isn’t a stud by any means but gamel is no sure thing. For a team going all in it might’ve made some sense to get the better player. The farm is empty and they’re clearly not rebuilding.
Gamel absolutely has something to prove. So does Heredia. But for what it’s worth, Gamel wasn’t lifting the ball the way he was in the first half. He made an adjustment in late August that led to a much better batted ball profile for the rest of the season, though the results didn’t show in his batting line. Point is, there’s positive signs that suggest he’ll be okay. Still has to get out there and do it, though.
Of course he’s gonna play! Ichiro plans on (and should be) playing until he’s 45, the mans a living legend for all of baseball, in any era. Really glad Mariners Managament got their moral compass right and finally singed him. Honestly would be kinda cool if maybe he becomes a player/coach
Ichiro can fill in for Gamel for the first 2-3 weeks of the season. The organization can get a lot of mileage out of his return this year even if his role becomes limited. Ichiro may only be a shadow of his former self, but he’s still a better option than Niewenhuis.
This is great, I love it. He certainly deserves to play again this year. Don’t forget that he hit well over 300 in 2016, and last year he did well for a bench player. I hope he continues his legacy through he’s 50, amazing what he’s already doing at I think 44.
Ty Cobb never saw anything above 90 if he played today he never would have made the big leagues. Anyone who played in the era of segregation can’t be the greatest anything. It’s easy to be the best at something when you don’t allow the majority of people to participate.
evidence to back up this bull crap claim? you think the two or three black pitchers would have dropped Cobb from a top ten player all time? what are sixteen?
Cobb played when he could play, as did Ruth. It was not their decision who played (though Cobb would have probably agreed). All players have to be looked at in the era they played in. No need to hold that against them.
Wow this is so racist. 1 there are more than 2 black pitchers, 2 any non white was not allowed to play not just black people. No player from this era would be able to handle the physical demands of today’s baseball. Peddle your racist dogma elsewhere.
All sports need to be dropped into era’s.. it’s not ty cobbs fault he didn’t get to face some of the pitchers in the African American League… he could only hit what was givin to him… while I agree these pitchers would have made the league better.. how many at bats would Cobb have received 10-12 at bats a season does not make a player…your argument has many flaws.. while I understand the basis how is it cobbs fault he didn’t face “lefty” in the African American League (nothing against lefty he was amazing in HIS era )… said pitcher would probably get shelled in todays game.. heck even ten years ago 90-92 was cooking now that’s a change up for some relievers… do you honestly believe the babe would survive as a pitcher today?could Carl y win a triple crown?…. could Jackie Robinson catch up to a 100 pitch let alone a wicked slider…. why can’t we take each player for what they where in there era.. I think it’s great that Ichiro is back he may not be the player he was but an orginazation had a need and realized that a great icon that has made said organization oodles of money could come back to where it all began let it go full circle… this is from a brewers fan!! Take your blinders off it’s not a race issue.. we don’t celebrate Ichiro for his race we celebrate him for how he plays and how much he impacts not only a team but a community… I could make the argument (though I won’t) that the pitchers your referring to in the African American League have no merit because they didn’t have to face international baseball players…. take your race card and put it back in your wallet as it’s expired!!!
From my understanding, he would NOT have agreed. I’ve read that Cobb argued that all people should be allowed to play baseball. He came from a family that has advocated for equality. He certainly wasn’t a very nice guy, but the story of him as a racist is overblown and unfair.
If you are going to take a player born in a different era, I think it’s unfair to analyze them as if they were born in that time and at the age of their first mlb at bat, instantly time travel them to the future and have them face current day pitching. If players in past eras were born at the same time as current day players and had similar upbringings and faced similar competition I think the results would be far different then you assume. And if all people were allowed to play in past eras people would overall be less successful because some people would be as good or better does not mean they would become bad players, maybe the 10th best instead of the 5th.
Mickey Mantle was basically a fall down drunk and managed to play the game and hit over 50 homers in a season. I’d like to see today’s players do that.
I’m not advocating for drunkenness, but your comment seems a bit off base. A lot of the players from that era made peanuts compared to what these guys make today and had regular jobs in the off-season, not living off the money the made in season and working out in the off-season.
How about Rod Cares, Wade Boggs or Tony Gwynn. I’d throw George Brett in there too. Game has changed but those guys would have adapted. Ichiro is great at what he does but he certainly had equals.
2 or 3? At least half of the major league pitchers would have come from the Negro Leagues if they integrated.
At the time the barnstorming Negro League teams regularly beat the Yankees and the other MLB teams in hotly contested exhibitions. Cobb was so bad in those exhibition games against the Negro League teams, 7 for 89 total, that after an especially bad series in Cuba where he was struck out 11 times in 3 games including 4 times in one game against Jose Mendez, he vowed never to play against a “n*****” again. Visit the Negro League Hall of Fame some time and learn about what was really going on at the time.
My question is are there other people out there that are as ignorant about baseball in general and the Negro League players as you are?
Cobb did face Negro League pitchers and was horrible against them. He went 7 for 89 in recorded exhibition games against them.
Back then it was a matter of pride for both the MLB teams, usually the WS or playoff teams, and the Negro League barnstorming teams so the games were hotly contested.
Cobb was a racist. That is proven and there is no way anyone that both hated blacks and who was as competitive of a baseball player as he was would just allow himself to beaten that badly by Negro League pitchers. That is why after a particularly bad 1911 exhibition series in Cuba he vowed never to play against “n****s” again.
His family advocated for equality, but Cobb was a racist through and through. After 2011, he refused to even play against “ni**ers”. Read his biography. Get educated on baseball and the people that played it.
When he was a player manager, when a reporter brought up including players such as Jose Mendez and Heavy Johnson he said, “I will never have one of them ni**ers on my team.”
I missed a lot of Cobb playing baseball and I think if he said that in 2011 hr would have been suspended for awhile. LOL
Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs…. None of them had to rely on the 55 foot slow roller to get their hits….. Ichiro was a unique talent but the three I mentioned outclassed him, Gwynn stuck out less than 500 times in his career …. they all struck out less than Ichiro while posting higher career batting averages… they were all better at milking walks too.
Ichiro is/was a contact hitter, so of course he isn’t going to lead in walks. His K% was about the same as Carew’s.
Ichiro relied heavily on speed, but that doesn’t mean he was outclassed. You wouldn’t fault Gwynn for using his elite pitch recognition. There’s something to be said about a player with over 4000 hits between NBP and MLB who’s so well disciplined that he can keep playing at age 44. He passed Boggs and Carew at an older age with less time in MLB and there’s a chance he’ll pass Gwynn as well.. He only needs 62 hits.
So yeah. Skills are gone and he’s now completely reliant on BABip fluctuations, like all other slap-type hitters in history
You could argue that the reason his numbers were down in 2015 and 2017 had to do with exceptionally low BABIP’s. 2016’s was normal, not exceptional.
After 10 years of being able to control it (and generally keeping it over 340) …he has had an BABIP over 300 only twice in the last 7 seasons.
So sure, you can try to make that argument if you’re that desperate. But it’s a silly argument you will not win since you do not have facts on your side. Facts indicate his skills are gone and is completely reliant on BABIP fluctuations at this time
Darkstar, just face it, the facts are irrelevant when it comes to Ichiro. His fans think that he is still worthy of a major league roster spot. They fail to realize that it took a rash of injuries to get him a contract with a team where his name will sell tickets temporarily.
It’s extremely comical though as this isn’t even up for debate. If a person investigates for even a seconds time they see this:
He’s been the EXACT same guy for 3 straight seasons – with the only variance in numbers at all being because the “Skills are gone and he’s now completely reliant on BABip fluctuations”
He’s also being signed to bridge a gap, not be counted on as an everyday guy. He still has speed. He still has a great arm in the OF. He still plays defense. He can still hit well enough to probably hit last while he is starting for injured players.
He will sell tickets, you’re right. What’s wrong with that? This is an excellent signing for the time being.
Statistically, Ichiro is a downgrade in every way (well roughly equal re: Def) from the current internal option. So no, the selling tickets is the only real plus to this signing.
Sorry it’s the case, you obviously still want to have such a lofty opinion of him – but factually, it is the case and there is just no getting around that
Second, your argument still doesn’t make sense because now you’re admitting a low BABIP doesn’t necessarily effect him negatively.
The point you’re missing is that he isn’t dependent on BABIP, which is exactly what you suggested before proving yourself wrong.
Even if people disagree with what you are saying, this is a good take using actual stats. People go out of there way to downvote on mlbtr I don’t get it.
With that out of the way, Ichiro, like most hitters, has to get himself dialed in. He’s not dependent on luck as some people are suggesting by citing BABIP, and this would be more apparent if people would look more carefully at his spits.
Last season, he had a pretty terrible 1st half. In the 2nd half, he batted .299/.384/.379 with a BABIP of .329, which is about average, not exceptional.
Ichiro is 44 years old and he stole one base last year. It’s safe to say his speed which helped his elite BABIP numbers from 2001-2010 are gone.
Don’t get me wrong, he can still provide value. He’s roughly a league average fielder despite his advanced age and perhaps he can look at some tapes from 2016 where Barry Bonds supposedly fixed a mechanical issue in his swing he can get it going again.
He got the ball in the air more in the second half, which probably helped considerably. That was a key adjustment. As you suggested, he doesn’t have the elite speed he once had, so he’s not going to beat out the GB’s as frequently as he used to. Contact was at a career-low last season as well, but nothing suggests he’s completely done.
It would be great if he proves to be a solid stopgap. They won’t likely be leaning on him too heavily or for too long, and it’s not like he’s going to break the bank.
Bet Your Sweet Bippy, people are probably down voting his comments because he’s stating an opinion that can be rebutted with facts while dismissing the bigger and more important point (that he’s an expendable stopgap).
The reality is that Ichiro doesn’t have the legs to beat out ground balls like he used to, so he’s never going to have .360 BABIP’s consistently again. But that doesn’t mean he can’t be successful without inflated BABIP’s. In 2016 he had a BABIP of .329 on the year and was productive (.291/.354/.376). Last season he also had a BABIP of .329 in the second half and put up a successful batting line of (.299/.384/.379). Current trends tell often tell the story better than career stats.
The fact that darkstar is responding with a condescending tone isn’t helping his cause. He sounds bent on writing Ichiro off as a potential fit for the need, but he may prove to be just fine. There’s reason to be nervous, after all, he’s a 44 year-old player who’s missed half of the spring. I get that. But there’s really nothing to lose financially, and there’s enough that suggests he can still offer something.
He wouldn’t have been my first choice, but he might be the best choice among free agents. Seattle could still possibly make a move at the end of spring for another depth piece. We’ll have to wait and see.
The bonus here is that the fans get a favorite back for one last go. But it’s certainly not the only reason this move makes some sense.
4-7 years ago he would still post a BA in the range of 290 off a 300 BABIP – now he can only manage a 255 ish
Skills are gone and he is absolutely completely dependant on BABIP because, as you can see from the last three years, he has been the same guy the entire time with only BABIP dictating Wether he is horrific (2015) very bad (2017) or still good (2016)
His skills are gone – now his worth depends completely on his BAbip fluctuations (or, if he has a BABip neutral year, it will look like last seasons)
You keep repeating yourself, but you’re ignoring the fact that he had average BABIP’s in 2016 and in the second half last year and was productive.
He’s not the player he was, obviously, but he doesn’t need to be and he won’t be paid like a star. He’s a low-risk stopgap.
Anyway, regarding downvotes? Could absolutely care less and honestly hardly a surprise – look around at all the “best move ever” comments …wishful thinking and nostalgia reign supreme, facts be damned
So yeah, feel free to desperately try and cherry-pick small sections to act like reality isn’t somehow reality; but reality is still reality
And reality is, at this time, his “skill level” is much lower than even that of Kirk Nieuwenhuis – with his only chance of a better-than-Kirk season coming on the off chance he doesn’t get stuck with his 7 year trend of ~300 BABIP numbers (which is, you know, his production being dependant on BABip fluctuations with a skill level of roughly 255BA off 295ishBABip otherwise)
If you can’t look at the 7 year average and even admit that that is his new “average” …well, it explains why it is so difficult for you to accept reality, but it’s still pitiful
300 BABip is “his average” no matter how much desperate hollering you choose to do – it’s been “his average” for 7 years, even
…he’s been worse for much longer than I was even giving him credit for – with his 7 year average being not all that far off his current dismal skill level he has proven over the last 3 seasons
So again, keep up whatever amazing fantasies you wish were the case, but Ichiro himself has given you everything you could possibly need to prove he just is no where near whatever it is you wish he was
Way to miss the point and cherry pick for your own agenda. Current trends matter, and regardless of what you regurgitate repeatedly, the fact remains that he has been productively recently without an insanely high BABIP.
I never suggested he’s still a star, or some kind of savior, either. Do you really think you were offering anything by stating that he has declined?! Everyone with an IQ over 70 is aware of that.
@Darkstarmoron Ichiro’s career BABIP is .339, so those totals in 2015 and 2017 are heavily influenced by the deflated BABIP.
The skills are still there. A BABIP that far below averages means he was unlucky, not unskilled. If you are going to quote stats, at least understand them.
2012, 2014, 2016. That is 3 in the last 6. We get that you hate Ichiro, but at least get your facts straight DarkStar.
No it doesn’t. He can’t beat out the same ground balls he could 10+ years ago. His babip is going to be Lower now. To use a career average BABIP on a 45 year old is just foolish. A 7 year sample is much more relevant and even that is pushing it. He’s a 44 year old baseball player coming off a sub replacement level season. It wouldn’t be surprising if he’s finished. His ‘15 and ‘17 seasons were Bad. He’s going to be 45, it’s not hard to believe that he might not have anything left.
Look harder at his second half of 2017. He had an awful first half, but considering he was able to adjust and had a solid 2016 as well, there’s reason to believe he still has something left. What that is remains to be seen, but cherry picking a 7-year sample makes less sense than looking at the most recent trend from a player with a heck of a career..
But he hasn’t been productive recently! It’s way too much of a small sample to use! Take the overall work of the last, oh say 7 years
and use that as the average! No matter how much you cherry pick , Ichiro is just an emotional response signing by the Mariners to sell tickets!
You aren’t cherry picking a 7 year sample when it’s the last 7 years he has been playing. That’s not cherry picking at all. If you pluck out 7 random years then maybe you can use that argument. What Ichiro or any other player did 7-8 years ago has 0 relevance today. Other than nostalgia. I’m not hating on him though I wish him the best.
Of course that’s cherry picking. Random selections wouldn’t fit the agenda, because they would tap into his prime years, whereas the last 7 in general would cover most of the below average BABIP years.
Have you looked at his 2016 and second half of 2017? Have you read about the adjustments? There’s a reason I’m suggesting these guys look at the more recent trends.
Nothing about his BABIP suggests that number has had to be inflated for him to have success. 2016’s was normal.
That said, I’m not actually terribly excited about this. He offers decent defense and might have some hits in the tank, but a younger more versatil player would have interested me more.
Great guy to sub in while injuries heal for the Mariners. Even the publicity stunt is a plus for the team. Of all the other options to bridge the gab, Ichiro is one of my favorites.
You think you could do better? Quit drinking a beer on your couch, and I would like to see you pitch to Ichiro.
Very happy he’s back even though he is just a backup and bench help. This guy meant so much to the team he needs to be able to retire as a Mariner. Welcome home!
Ichiro should try to become a pitcher with his cannon arm. It may be the only way he can play until he is 50.
Just an opportunity for ownership to have more promotions and make money. They couldn’t care less about winning games which is why this will be the 17th year in a row with no playoffs.
You need to give them a chance. You expect them to make the WS a year after they buy the team? They almost made the WC using mostly AA pitchers all season. They have a core that is pretty good let them grow up and get some good pitching to go with it. The pitching they do have needs to get some experience too.
Norah, the new owners have expanded payroll. Seattle is about to break last season’s opening day payroll record with payroll at about 160 million this year.
They’ve also stated that there’s still some flexibility, but something has to be there to get through the season as promotions, incentives, and acquisitions will all weigh in to a total higher than that of opening day.
Seattle’s a mid-market team, yet they’re currently 7th(?) in payroll spending if I’m not mistaken, which has them just above the Yankees.
I was surprised back win The Marlins let him go. With The Marlins firesale, they could’ve at least used him to platoon with another player.
Agreed, I did not understand the Marlins not wanting ichiro back. It was only $1 million something to bring him back
What’s not to like? While no one is glad for injuries, this seems like a storybook ending for the HOF in waiting.
This it like Griffey coming back. I like it as a baseball fan but if I was a Mariners fan it’d probably be bitter sweet.
I’m happy with this. The general consensus is that he can’t hit anymore, but Mattingly used him almost entirely as a pinch-hitter, a role that few thrive on. Ichiro will probably get more at-bats in Seattle (I hope so). In these days of steroids, controversy, etc., Ichiro is welcome relief. A true class act. I wish him well.
I was hoping that by some astronomical chance my Reds would sign him and he’d tutor Billy Hamilton.. btw why is anyone remotely surprised that Dee Gordon is mastering CF? Hamilton started out as a middle infielder too
If Boras was his agent in 2014 he’d be out of baseball 4 years. If he hired Boras this past winter what would Boras demand for his new client? 3/$60m?
I am not sure I love this…I love the idea of Ichiro retiring as a Mariner….but what’s going to happen when when the entire outfield gets healthy. You going to send Ichiro to the minors? Or will he retire? Why not give one of these young players a taste of some Major League games? Why not Bring Bishop up and give him so AB’s who’s had a great spring?
Because you’d be starting the service clock on a player who has yet to see AAA and he would go right back down once Gamel’s healthy.
When you take the emotions out of it, worst case scenario is that he’s DFA’d and the Mariners lose nothing significant financially. But it’s also possible that he’s productive and sticks around in a bench role. They could stash Heredia in AAA and take it extra easy with him, which wouldn’t be a terrible idea considering he hasn’t even played the field yet this spring following his surgery, or they could stick with just one first basemen.
I am not emotional about it. I just don’t believe it’s the best choice. Diaz didn’t have any AAA time either and he’s been the everyday closer since he’s been here (who could probably use time in AAA to get more consistent with his mechanics). But still ranks up there as one of the best closers in the league.
I know it’s still early in spring but it’s hard to argue a guy who’s tearing it up, .467 with a 1.1 ops is not a better option than a declining player who will probably barely break a .600 on ops this year. They’re both cheap options.
sgtpaln20, my point about emotions had to do with the very nature of what he is now, rather than what he was. I understood that it isn’t about emotions for you, but for many fans, understanding that he may need to be DFA’d is important. When/if that times comes, the team has to come first. My guess is that the Mariners have been up front with him.
Contrary to what some of the commenters above may believe, I don’t think he’s the best choice, either. I would much rather see a controllable player with options. But among free agents, he makes sense as a stopgap. Starting the clock early on Miller or Bishop isn’t a great idea since neither have much (or any) AAA seasoning and wouldn’t likely be used much–if at all–once Gamel is back.
In the second half last season, Ichiro made an adjustment. He was getting the ball in the air more, so he wasn’t so reliant on speed to get base hits. If that carries over, he should be able to handle the load and possibly even stick around in a bench role. Worst case, little money is spent and the Mariners move forward without him once Gamel’s back.
It will be interesting to see if another player is brought in following spring. There could be a need for a RHH if Heredia proves to need more time returning from surgery.
Stevil, I agree that looking at bare bone facts (and taking his name off the jersey and the emotions out of it) that Ichiro probably ISN’T the best choice. I understand that the situation is somewhat desperate there with the rash of injuries to the point where the Mariners finally reached a state where Ichiro was a tolerable option. The only thing that gets me are the fanboys who seem to think that Ichiro is a “great” option. He just isn’t the player he was ten years ago.
Hopefully Ichiro plays decent enough and retires a Mariner in a few weeks. It would be sad for father time to expose all his flaws.
Another way to look at it might be to peak at the projections for Gamel and Heredia. ZiPS likes Ichiro better than either one.
To be honest, I’m not that big on projections, and I think Gamel and Heredia have much higher upside. But the bar is low and he will only need to offer average value for a short while.
He might actually be a better option than I realized. A “great” fit would be a stretch, but if he does what’s asked of him and the fans are happy, it’s hard to argue against the move.
At minimum he’ll sell more tickets and possibly be an inspiration for the younger players. Hard not to like this for both sides as long as the price tag isn’t ridiculous.
Yeah, he’s arguably the second biggest star in franchise history (after Griffey), so it’s nice to see him back in Seattle even if he contributes very little on the field.
I do hope he has a good season and announces a retirement tour. Ichiro deserves a first ballot HOF and I’d prefer it be on his terms.
When you say “hold the fort” the message is clear– you and I are in the fort holding out against the enemies of the fort who are now besieging the fort. I now have to pop out of the fort for a bit to get some printer toner or take the cat to the vet. (don’t worry about how i’ll get past the besieging enemy, i’ve got a secret tunnel and a false beard). While I do this, I want YOU to HOLD the fort, so that I when I get back we’ll both still have the fort.
But if I ask you to hold DOWN the fort, what the hell am i talking about? Hold down the fort while i go out because as you know it’s some kind of inflatable hover fort, and once relieved of my weight it might float off into the sky? Hold down the fort and when I get back the two of us can tickle the fort?
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Meh! Disappointed in this acquisition when our organization has a chance to promote Miller or Braden Bishop- you wanna talk about promotions and marketing? Braden Bishop’s ‘hits for Mom’ story trumps Ichiro making a return to Seattle IMO. I’m also disappointed our FO chooses to buy a Goodwill blue dot bargain basement player. Yet again (w the exception of Nellie and Robbie) when given the option of buying a FA we choose a meh! player. Either we’re all in on winning now or we rebuild- don’t see how this stop-gap player improves our roster.
I can understand desiring a different option, but Miller or Bishop? Miller only played in 40 or so games in AAA last season and struggled heavily. Bishop hasn’t even reached AAA yet. Why start the clock on a player that would only be up for a 2-3 weeks before burning an option to get him the seasoning he still needs?
They’re not ready. I get it, though, that Seattle’s going cheap. I myself was hoping to see Brett Phillips and Christian Walker acquired. Trades may not be an option at this time as teams are still figuring out who they want to keep.
Payroll- I’ve never bought that argument, it’s not our $ what do we care how much their cap is? I want wins. If the team says it’s serious about winning while we have Cruz Cano Seager et al then show us. There’s plenty of better options than a selfish slap hitting 62yr old baseball player
Well, we don’t make the decisions! And the bit about him being selfish is just ridiculous. Because Carlos Silva didn’t like him? Who cares!
Ridiculous is when your front office buys an aging OF and an above average RP after claiming we are trying to win now in a division where the two teams above you have made substantial improvements to their ball clubs over the past 12 mo’s.
Nicasio is a solid, versatile reliever who can give them innings. You actually have a problem with that? And as far as Ichiro goes, there was no intention to “buy” another outfielder. But with Haniger missing time recently with tendonitis, Heredia needing to be eased in, and Gamel missing the start of the season due to an oblique strain, they needed some insurance.
The Astros are a solid team, no question. The Angels improved defensively quite a bit, but their bullpen got worse and every one of their starting pitchers has significant durability concerns.
The Mariners haven’t made any real flashy moves, but they’re roster looks significantly better than it did opening day just one year ago. No Overton, Fien, Scribner, Gallardo, Valencia, etc.
Don’t recall saying or even suggesting I had a problem w the Nicasio addition- I’m glad they got another power arm to complement the softer throwers like Leake Marco and Eras. But even there- he has more history as a failed starter who has a solid season, season half of success in relief.
Astros added Verlander and Cole- devastating rotation. Angels add Shotanhi, Upton and Cosart. They have similar starting rotation projections as our SP staff reliant upon injury prone SP’s.
My original post highlights my frustration in the utility/4th OF purchase when Cargo, Joey Bats, Ethier even M Holliday could be acquired. Any of those OFers have a good 1/2 they’re trade bait after ASG
You literally stated that it was ridiculous the front office bought an aging outfielder and above average RP.
Your misquoting me- I said it’s ridiculous that our FO makes these two purchases after going on record to say we are trying to compete for the playoffs this year- There are far better options on the FA market than Ichiro and his farewell tour.
Ichiro won’t play if our OF of Dee, Hanny, Gamel and Heredia are fit so, again, I don’t think it’s a big deal to say to Bishop- “hey kid, why don’t you extend your Spring Training by a couple weeks while Gamel is out. A couple weeks in the show is hardly going to ruin an OF who’s having a good ST and most importantly knows he’s got nothing to lose since our OF is set at least for a couple seasons.
I did not misquote you. If you chose your words poorly, that’s on you. But if you actually believe Nicasio is a great pitcher, how does signing him not suggest the Mariners are making an effort to contend? Because they didn’t get the starter everyone was calling for? There was still a need for a shut-down reliever than can go 2-3 innings. There’s still a need for RHRP, as Zych was shut down.
Take a harder look at what Ichiro did in the second half last year and consider how he was used. Half of his at bats were as a pinch hitter, which is one of the hardest things in baseball to do. He wouldn’t have been my first choice, but the harder I look at what he’s done recently, the more sense the move makes. As far as better options go, virtually all that was left were more expensive and needed to be platooned.
And starting the clock on Bishop still doesn’t make any sense. He has zero games in AAA. They would be starting the service clock early and burning an option.
Why don’t we see how this plays out? I get that you’re a passionate Mariners’ fan. I am as well. Adding to the equation is a good thing. We still have Bishop, still have Miller, still have Gamel, and still have Heredia.
If Bishop or Miller are ready, I’d agree with you. But I also don’t want to see people ruined because they were brought up too soon because there was no one else. We’ve had that happen here before. I’d rather they signed a younger free agent who could contribute more.
Welp, I am going to have to now change my entire fantasy baseball draft strategy with this major free agent signing.
In all seriousness, Ichiro is one of my favorites of all time. In his prime you could literally hit him anywhere in your lineup. He was the best defensive outfielder of his generation besides Tori Hunter (Gary Matthews Jr didnt even come close).
He was the perfect baseball player, silent assasin that was durable and embraced the fans. In a time when 85% of the major leagues were using some sort of performance enhancing “supplement” (I am going to upset some people but yea Griffey and Big Papi were on the juice) everyone just knew Ichiro wasnt using nor did he have to.
This signing by the Mariners is for the fans and a way to send a class act Hall of Famer into the Hall with the class he deserves.
This is a great thing for the team and for Ichiro. He will get to retire in the same uniform he started in in MLB. The team will draw some fans both at home and on the road that come to see him for his retirement tour.
Stats don’t really matter in this case. Gamel will be back soon and the starting job is his so signing a guy like Jay was off the table. At best the Mariners will be competing for the 2nd Wild Card, so having Ichiro out there is not going to kill their playoff chances.
I know most people will think I’m nuts, but I don’t think this was a PR move. I honestly believe Jerry sees him as a legitimate 4th outfielder. There was talk bringing him back earlier in the offseason if Heredia looked to be in need of significant recovery time.
The PR angle is a bonus, in my opinion. Keep in mind, Leonys Martin was well loved in Seattle, yet he got DFA’d early into the season. Dipoto hasn’t been afraid to cut players loose that aren’t performing.
So, this will probably be Ichiro’s last team. If he retires as a Mariner, and goes in the HOF as a Mariner, and the Mariners retire jersey number 51, who’s name they put on it? Ichiro or Randy Johnson?
Randy without a doubt. He did far more for the mariners than ichrio ever did. Randy won playoff games. Ichiro slapped singles and refused to stay in the same hotel with the rest kid the team.
Good question. Ichiro had 11+ more in WAR but with 3 more seasons in Seattle. Though Ichiro produced more for Seattle, Johnson’s run was just as significant in my opinion, so I’d like to see something unique. Why not retire the number to honor both players?
I completely agree! They’re both HOF’ers. I wonder if that is the first time a team produced two HOF’ers wearing the same number???
They would need about 50 things to bounce their way to get into the postseason (not getting hurt would be one). No depth and too many pitching woes. They should sign Cobb and either Arrieta or Lynn and make a true go of it this year, as they have the worst farm in MLB now – they need to be putting more effort into fielding a contender or else what’s the point?
Oh sure. Payroll is already sitting at 160, those 3 are still looking for over 50 million, but why not, right? Who wouldn’t want to pay for an over-rated Jake Arrieta?
I don’t think they’re as bad off as you think. If their pitching staff can stay healthy, I think they have a dam good shot especially if Iwakuma is at his best by the All-Star break
I’m saying they’re good. Turner isn’t. Marco is looking filthy this spring, Mike Leake will probably deliver 30+, 3.70 ERA or so, and if Paxton can stay healthy, good god, watch out.
Hope he has a great year in his return to Seattle. Great for him, great for the fans to have him back.
Every time I hear that Ichiro is going to play until he’s 50, I think: Does he have back child support he has to pay? Lol
the mariners should have called the Phil’s with outfield help. They have some surplus. just a thought. not about mariners sock on available SPs.
It’s a real shame he went to Miami for 2 years. He should have got his 3000th hit as a mariner. Really hope he plays til he’s 50 and overall breaks pete roses hit record.
If they do, then he shouldn’t have been eligible for the ROY award in 2001 . Hence he would’ve been a pro player already !