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You know what’s funny about these seminars that want your finances to be blessed is that you always come out poorer than you did going in. Of course with a certain Television Broadcaster Nearby to record the event, you better believe that they will shake you upside down to get your last bit of change out of you before you go home.
You know what’s crazy is that these people think that when Jesus spoke on finances it was all about improving self, when in actuality it was about increasing the kingdom. No wait, i get it, God said he would open the windows of heaven and pour out his blessing just like the dove ascended on Christ as the heavens were opened. Oh, i see, it’s all about getting, isn’t it? That’s what this is all about. The only people at this seminar that will be getting anything is the Television Broadcaster Nearby. Other than that, everyone else will be giving.
you sound like someone who’s been duped by the church, if so… sorry my man. or is it that you are some other greedy dude who’s jealous of the church and how it gets money and you are someone who has never been in this setup and are just speaking from the outside view.
well, let me tell you something; the church, the irs etc… don’t make you poor but it’s just that you’ll be poor already and what they just do is put up a challenge in your life to work a little harder and obtain something bigger.
if they take your 10% what they are saying is; see how you’ll survive with the 90% that’s left and if you find it hard to live by such then pull your socks up and the next month let’s see how you’ll survive after we’ve taken 10% off your improved harvest, and if you still struggle then you need to push further. soon you’ll get to a point you get rich, not by magic or rewards from the church but from your own hands and work.
but it doesn’t mean you stop tithing once you think you are well off, those 10% deductions will keep you on track all the time….
Friend did you know that you are a priest? Old Testament priest did not pay tithes. How can all Christians be priest and there still be any tithing system. Besides the food tithes of the Old Testament were meant for those who needed food and the poor. There was never a money tithe commanded by Moses. God did not want Levites and priest asking for 10% of anyone’s money. Tithes were food for those who needed it. Expecting money is not the friendly mission of Jesus.
Kings and Politicians feel entitled to taxes and special privileges. They do not need to ask they demand. This is no friendly. Peter declared: Ye are a chosen generation a royal priesthood a holy nation. Many people calling themselves pastors in the world also act like nobility. Is this what Jesus wants? The King of Kings Jesus came to be a servant and everyday he was dishonored by the world that did not worship him as God. To make us rich in heaven he became poor. Jesus became poor. Jesus said blessed are the poor. Blessed are the persecuted. His followers should expect persecution and sufferings. Jesus will make us rich in joy for sure. However Kings and Politicians feel entitled to taxes and special privileges. Sadly, many people calling themselves pastors feel they have many worldly rights too. Is this what Jesus wants? The King of Kings Jesus came to be a servant and everyday he was dishonored by the world that did not worship him as God.
Friends Ask, Jesus called us friends. Unloving governments Expect and Demand. Money tithing is not what Jesus told us do do. The greatest should expect the least on earth.
Hi,check this scripture out (1 Timothy 6:5NLT) its a perfect example why pastors are collecting tithes that are for Levites only.
do you know that being a christian is not a passport to poverty but richness, Christ became poor so that we might be rich.
Now don’t get all mixed up, tithing is not buying riches but acknowledging God, that what you have came from God.
Genesis 28, 20And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 21So that I come again to my father’s house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 22And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
3: just because he had promised God, he didn’t sit on his hands and leave it to God since “He now knew that Jacob wants to offer something to Him”, but he got to work even harder than anticipated.
It’s crystal clear, you give to God from your sweat. But now it’s only different in the sense that instead of pouring it on the ground there are man of God all around.
Considering the type of tithing commanded to the Israelites (leaving corns in the field and tithing after 7 years), the church stands for social justice and the welfare of the society. All the down trodden get their help from the church, which other field would you be leaving for those to come save for the church?
If the Man of God is a fake, the curse doesn’t come on us the tithers, it falls on the offenders (Look at what happened to Eli and his sons Phineas and Hophni). The people were not affected but the perpetrators. One other thing that’s hitting us these days is this philosophical mind of ours, which in great effect does not believe that there are Man of God around.
Musa Thank you friend and Thanks to all friends that are contributing with debate and sharing in this electronic fellowship. Musa you study more than most Thank you. I am sure we are all are sharper in the word because of this fellowship. Praise Jesus!
However now we shall return to the Jesus debate. Here is a harsh reality Jesus is for earthly losers. He that comment to me must first deny himself take up his cross, and follow me. All Christians are priest do you believe this Musa? The greatest believers in Jesus loose the most. Giving is good I want you to give as much as you want. Expecting others to give to your ministry and preaching required money tithe or be in sin law for Christians is what I am against. There is no Christian tax to preachers. The money tithe system is like a box that stops most Christians from living their mission. One priest expects 10% to spend on his mission from another priest?
In America preachers are often have better salaries than those who they preach to. Should the poorer be expected to support the lifestyles of the more wealthy? Why pay for a preacher to send his kids to Christian School when your own kids do not go to Christian school Give to the poor not give to preachers who take a fair share so they can give to the poor is what the New Testament commands for priest. I all Christians are not priest then I need some explanation. Give to the poor first of all. Give to your family members send your kids to Christian schools. Give to street preachers, because every Christian has a mission. Each mission is different. Besides the Title pastor is for Jesus to give. Pastor is only found once in the New Testament next to teachers.
Musa friend I am a sinful selfish flawed believer next to the persecuted missionary who are the best Christians on earth. However I want to be like them not most T.V. preachers because they are rich comfortable winners. I do not call them evil that is the Job of Jesus. I do not call them my spiritual authorities. They are priest like myself and everyone who believes in Jesus. I watch Christian TV because I like Christian cartoons for my kids I don’t like the rich preachers much. I praise Jesus for the good that they do. However I dislike their entitlements to money. am also a Christian rapper and members of my family are also Christian rappers. My paying job is with disabled Adults.
I love missionaries, I do volunteer work in a food bank every week and I volunteer for a Christian school. These are ministries that do not require me to give to them 10% of my cash. I buy Christian music and Christian cartoons for my kids and others.
All the disciples lived lives of harsh suffering Jesus died by being tortured to death. Take up your Cross means believers will suffer loss of themselves on earth to share with the poor. I do not see a recipient for self indulgence in the words of Jesus. This thinking is popular in America but is it not backwards of the world? If a man expects 10% of your cash how are you and he equal if you feel that your mission you must always give to him first. Jesus did not command this for his priest Christians in the New Testament under grace. Do you believe that all believers are priest? Martin Luther of Germany 400 years ago saw a rich Catholic church with Idols and preachers taking money from other believers in Jesus. He had many words against money tithes.
Martin Luther said the just shall live by faith and he was against tithes because he said all believers are priest. Lutherans, Baptist, Presbyterians and later Pentecostals all trace most of their beliefs back to the Protestant Reformation. Money tithing took from the poor to give to comfortable preacher then and the same is true now. All Christians are priest do you believe this friend Musa.
I am an African American. Are the best Christians rich and not persecuted in the World? No Friend the Jews of the Bible lived in Captivity for most of their existence. I am African American. Who were the better U.S. Christians the Jesus believing pastors that were slave owners or the Slaves? The best Believers in Jesus end up suffering like Jesus. The greatest Jews and Christians have throughout history usually been poor and persecuted. The others are giving so much away that they seem Crazy to the world. ST Nicolas was a rich man who gave away all of his fortune to help the Church in the Roman Empire. He went to prison for his good deeds. In countries where there are large numbers of Muslims Christians are often poor and in danger of being killed. In Atheist and Communist Countries Buddhist Hindu countries Christians are denied access to jobs an rightist and privileges. In these places are found the best Christians. In the West Christians who are against the most Abortion suffer. Comfortable Christians might not be doing all that they can Friend. It is ok to be happy, joyful and content, but to expect money from others sounds less than What Jesus wants.
Thanks all for reading this long post. If you have then you have suffered to hear a man who often rambles. I hope you were blessed.
Musa,Since you sound like a student of the bible,please can you explain (Hebrews 8:3-4NLT) maybe your so call pastors or man of God still insist that they can collect tithes when even Jesus is not allowed because (Hebrews 8:4)says He cant.
Heb 8:4 for if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Just for the record (faith4unme let me answer you and ask you at the same time)…. here it says that he would not be a priest if he were on earth because on earth those who are priests offer gifts according to the law but he (Jesus) represents the heavenly things and a new covenant which is written in people’s hearts. i think we agree on this don’t we?
if you say we are no longer to tithe (as it is the law) you are also implying that we are only to be guided by the only priest with the heavenly orders (Jesus). this makes him the only priest and the only true one , right?
but now here’s my question which will also make me answer Freewillgiver: so how do you qualify 1 Pet. 2:9 into our lives? are we priests or not?
Dear friends, It all comes down to what you believe you are now. Jesus is THE ONLY HIGH PRIEST of the NEW COVENANT.
It was Jesus BLOOD that God the father accepted to cleanse us from all sins.It was Jesus SACRIFICE that was accepted by God for our redemtion from the curse of the law
1 Peter 2:9, clearly refers to christians because now on Earth the veil that seperated us from God that was in the temple according to the Mosiac law has been torn. Only the high priest was allowed to go behind the veil where Gods presence was.
We as christians can approach God because of the blood of Jesus only, that qualify christians to be called ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, CHOSEN GENERATION, SPECIAL PEOPLE, A HOLY NATION.
Jesus is now sitting at the right hand of God, in the old covenant the high priest never sits down behind the veil, there were no seats behind the veil or in the old temple.We are christians because of Jesus, THE BLOOD OF JESUS DOES NOT CHANGE US INTO LEVITES OR ARRON, We are sinners saved by Grace not Moses or Elijah.
The answer to Musas question is, just because Jesus cleanse us from all sins DOES NOT GIVE US THE RIGHT TO sit next to Jesus in heaven or be called HIGH PRIESTS IN HEAVEN.
We are called SONS OF GOD not “THE SON OF GOD” . Humility always gives us the right perspective. JESUS IS THE WAY not CHRISTIANS.
Apostle Paul said it very clearly when he taught about humility, i quote,”when you think you are something then you are nothing”
Musa and everyone suffer for Jesus! St Valentines day celebrates a man who died preaching for Jesus. May we all learn to be so brave. Friend, guess Musa you believe that we are all priest praise Jesus! Christ is in all of Us if we are born again maybe that answers some of your questions. Giving is for all Christian priests and remember priest did not have to pay tithes. I am not against giving pleases friends give what Jesus puts on your hearts. Haiti is a great place to give to right now they are in need. Persecuted Christians in China and Muslim Countries are in need.
Many U.S. children need to go to Christian schools they are in need because the public schools teach abortion and gay marriage. However many preachers using money tithe systems claim that the first giving belongs to the local preacher who is the replacement of the Levites. Has Jesus really commanded Christians to give to the local ministry before the poor before the missionaries before even ones family in every situation? That is Christian money tithing. A tithe system is always mandatory. A 10% money tithe is a tax. So must Christians be under such a tax?
U.S. preachers send their kids to Christian schools and colleges while many people in their ministries feeling in sin under money tithe systems do not have enough money left to send their own kids to Christian schools. Often money tithe preaches preach “First, The 10% money tithe belongs to the local church or one is robbing God!” These new money tithes expecting Levites demand money instead of food. They are super priest who even tell the poor Christian priest that they must money tithe. Jesus said the first shall be last.
Is the idea of Christians being obligated to tithe their money to a ministry that pays a preacher from Jesus? Musa you are correct that the Old testament food tithes helped the poor. However Musa in America many preachers expect 10% of other Christians money. This is a money tithe system not found in the law of Moses. Abraham was not obligated under the law of Moses to give money he gave freely. How can Abraham’s free giving choice be used to argue for a mandatory money tithe system for Christians today? Did Jesus, Peter, Paul or any of the disciples ever collect expected or preach about Christian obligations to money tithe?
Jesus talked about helping the poor. Missionaries do this all the time. Giving to someone who ask for money is great if they are a friend. Giving to someone who demands money is strange. The Bible never encouraged leaders in Jesus to demand a percentage of other people’s money as a money tithe. Ananias and his wife lied to the Holy Spirit their sin was not failing to pay a money tithe to any ministry.
Is it wrong to expect others to give 10% and teach that they are in sin if they do not give? Is this blog spreading a false doctrine that Christians are free to give? The current money tithe systems taught in most Evangelical U.S churches leaves Christians with one choice. Give or be in sin. So are Christians free to give like the priest of the Old testament or are Christians in sin if they fail to give 10% to the ministries of their local preachers?
Musa and anyone, If one believes in Christian 10% money tithing please preach very strong that Christians are in sin if they don’t. However if one believes that this is wrong we should not sit by and look the other way when preachers act like Judas talking about giving to the poor while taking too much for themselves.
i have a question to pause to you, i would very much like to hear what you have to say about the issue.
It believes that America is rich because of its donations and Africa is poor because it’s always at the receiving end.
How true is that? is that the cause or something else? considering the produce of Africa and what happens to it, is it a curse?
First, i wish to say that in many ways, poverty promotes spiritual wellness better than riches does. Which brings me to the point that our greatest strengths is also our biggest weakness because we rely on them too much.
To address your question, there are so many factors that determine wealth – work ethic, spiritual health, amount of freedom. My guess is that all these variables play a factor in the monetary success of a nation. If you take either one of those choices away, and chances are you will be impoverished.
You can’t have spiritual peace along with freedom and expect someone else to have a work ethic for you. You can’t expect to have a work ethic along with freedom but forget that God is the source of your income. And finally you can’t have work ethic along with spiritual health, and expect to be successful with an oppressive influences controlling you.