Table:
| Selling, General and Administrative Costs (in thousands) |  |  |  |
| --- | --- | --- | --- |
| Description | Twelve months ended October 31, 2018 | Twelve months ended October 31, 2017 | Increase/(Decrease) |
| Start-up expense (Tyler, Texas complex) | $13,394 | $403 | $ 12,991 |
| Legal services expense | 17,573 | 7,879 | 9,694 |
| All other SG&A | 68,863 | 61,847 | 7,016 |
| Administrative salary expense | 42,288 | 36,193 | 6,095 |
| Trainee expense | 21,553 | 16,182 | 5,371 |
| Charter aircraft expense | 2,167 | 900 | 1,267 |
| Depreciation expense - machinery and equipment | 5,801 | 4,555 | 1,246 |
| Stock compensation expense | 15,702 | 16,952 | (1,250) |
| Marketing expense | 32,624 | 34,272 | (1,648) |
| Start-up expense (St. Pauls, North Carolina complex) | — | 4,022 | (4,022) |
| Bonus award program expense | — | 15,098 | (15,098) |
| Employee Stock Ownership Plan ("ESOP") expense | 2,000 | 18,000 | (16,000) |
| Total SG&A | $221,965 | $216,303 | $ 5,662 |
Paragraphs:
SG&A costs during fiscal 2018 were $222.0 million, an increase of $5.7 million compared to the $216.3 million of SG&A during fiscal 2017. The following table shows the components of SG&A costs for the twelve months ended October 31, 2018 and 2017.
Regarding the table above, the change in start-up expense in any particular period relates to the stage of the start-up process in which a facility under construction is in during the period. Non-construction related expenses, such as labor, training and office-related expenses for a facility under construction are recorded as start-up expense until the facility begins operations. As a facility moves closer to actual start-up, the expenses incurred for labor, training, etc. increase. As a result, amounts classified as start-up expenses will increase period over period until the facility begins production. Once production begins, the expenses from that point forward are recorded as costs of goods sold. The increase in legal expenses was primarily attributable to our ongoing defense of the litigation described in “Part II, Item 3. Legal Proceedings” of this Form 10-K. The increases in trainee expense and administrative salaries were primarily attributable to increases in personnel that coincide with the Company's growth plans. The decrease in bonus expense, payouts of which are based on profitability, was the result of profitability not reaching the required levels for payout of that incentive. The decrease in ESOP expense, payouts of which are based on profitability, was attributable to the difference in the level of profitability between fiscal 2018 and 2017. The increase in all other SG&A expenses was the result of a net increase in various other categories of SG&A costs.
Question:
What is the legal service expenses for fiscal years 2018 and 2017 respectively?
Answer: 17,573, 7,879