Year: 1873

IN the HERALD or yesterday was gwen an inter
view with Bishop Cummins. OF the Reformed
Episcopal Church. With q desire to ascertain
from an official source some idea as to the views
entertained Of Bishop Cummins' movement by
the Protestant Episcopal Church Bishop Potter
was sought by q reporter OF the HERALD. The
learned and reverend Bishop was found at his
house, in Twenty second street. He was sick, but
he was gracious enough to afrord an interview In
his library 10 representative OF the HERALD. In
answer TO an inquiry as to what he thought OF the
reformed" movement the Bishop said that, In his
Judgment, 1t was only nine days. wonder-soon
over and speedily forgotten. The meeting the
other day was proof OF that. 1t was convened by
circular and by advertisement and yet how few
were presentl And even those who were present
Of the clergy had been deposed from the Church.
THE CONVERSATION WITH ENGLISH BISHOPS


II presume you have seen the interview in the
HERALD, Bishop, this morning, in which an allusion
is made to yourself"


"The conversation referred to In that interview
as taking place between myself the Archbishop OF
Canterbury and the Bishop OF Land0n, never did
take place. certainly have had no such conver.
satlon with Bishop Cummins. But In saying that
do not Tor o moment charge DR.. Cummins with
saying that which Is untrue. No doubt he has
heard from some one, four or five removes from me,
that such q conversation did take place. should,
certainly, never have thought OF asking the Arch
bishop OF Canterbury and certainly not the Bishop
OF London, what were their secret intentions in
reference to the government OF their own Church.
At the same time am free to confess that, SUBJ
stantally. what the Archbishop and the Bishop are
reputed to have said in that conversation is to Q
large extent the position Of the question In Eng.
land. This matter or innovation In Church wor-
ship does largely depend upon the suiera OF the
laity.n


81 notice, Bishop, that Bishop Cummins In this
interview expresses his utter inability to meet
this Remaining tendency while remaining in the
Church, and urges this as justification for his
coming out"


WHAT IS NOT RoMANIZING TENDENCY.


"Yes he does, but what he calls Romanizng
tendency, or rituasm, was In 1t before he went
into the Church, 1t was certainly there before he
was consecrated bishop, seven years ago; he knew
all these tendencies then, ana It is somewhat re.
makable that they were not then an offence TO him.
The ritualism in the diocese OF ntucky, OF which
he was Assistant Bishop, was the same then as 1t
is now.n


.rhen you think, Bishop, that the erect OF
Bishop Cummins' secession and that OF hts friends
will not seriously arfect the Protestant Epis copal
Church in this countryyn


'.No more sir than mosquito bite would AFFECT
the stone wall OF the reservoir in Firth avenue"


"But is 1t not true that there Is o marked ten.
dency in the English Church, and to q large extent
in the church OF this country to go long way





awe ARE NOT GOING TO RoME.n


"No, sir, we are not going to Rome. 1t is true
that there are q few individuals who run into ex.
cess at one end or the other, but that need not
affect the peace comfort or religious welfare Of the
great body. In large ecclesiastical body like the
Episcopal Church there VIII be, necessarily great
divergence OF opinion and practice. Before con-
be given and allowances made Tor the varying con-
dtions and circumstances in which each Church
finds itself. There is another reason why we could
nffrn fgp Pom 1hn mil hrra sln,,
Its people implicit subscription TO Its doc
trines. 1t assumes the authority to pro-
%ugais the tae anS
that PRONUNCIATION 1t asks and demands obedience
At the other end is freedom Of opinion, individual
responsibility, the right or the ndividual-Out OF
which mas come the rationalism OF Germany. The
Episcopal Church OF England and our own Church
stands midway between these. We inquire. as to
doubtful doctrine or practice what do the
Scriptures say And Il we need enlightenment as
to tnat we 60 back TO the Fathers, as they are
the first four centuries-to see what their comment
Is, and thus VIC hear the Scriptures and the
method OF the Romish Church, and cannot be con-
founded with it.n


RIrUALIsTIc PRACTICES.


"But, then, despite OF this essential difference,
there has grown up during this last 30 40 years
practices IN the English and the American Church
that are known as rituallstic, and are described
also as .Rcmanizing.'"


at is easy to call things by names and to howl
down certain practices that don't suit US. But
that Is neither phi!Os0phic nor judicial. Afgrcat
deal OF what Is said reminds me OF an anecdote
told DR.. Pusey, some years ago, when was in Eng
land. Two or three friends and myself were walk
Ing up Broadway once-it was just before Christ
mas-and one OF the party suggested that we turn
aside TO 60 INTO charcm TO 0UH az vne @ Hdrstmas
we saw, among other decorations. cross covered
with evergreens over the altar. Well, there was no
harm in that why should there be any objection
to the symbol OF our mediationS Way should the
Roman Catholics obtain monopoly OF this SYM
bols But one Of my friends said Ohl cannot
hear n
replied, 4 don't mind about seeing 1t there, but
1T Is bearing here that dnd hard beating him.
sell his breast. told this story to Dr. Pusey,
and he replied yes, that man knew more about
the cross. expect, than the other man, who could
not bear to see It as symbol. don't profess to
worship each end both In the slovenliness OF its
performance and in the extreme ritualistic char
actcr OF its observance that might not meet with
my approval But in large ecclesiastical body
ike the Church OF England and our own Church
you cannot get rid either Of an evil or the influence
there is no positive violation OF Church order or
Of doctrine It is better to allow 1t to work out its


.'The history of the growth OF ritualism in Eng.
land, and also In this country, scarcely indicates,
does IT. Bishop. that these exercises, as they are
deemed, are mere fungii on the ecclesiastical
treef Take for example, the trouble about the con-
fessional In Enaland."


'Now, the confessional serves as an illustration
OF what ! mean. l do not ignore the fact that
there are many, probably, In both countries VINO
WOulu ueslTc 10 make the CONFESSIONAL HaDltual.
But that which the confessional s III the Protestant
Episcopal Church Is very different thing TO what
1t is in the Romsh Church. man feels sick
ness OF soul; he is probably not conscious OF any
sins that would call forth the reprobaton OF men
generally, but to him they are grievous to be
borne and he thinks that II he could
lay his heart and mind open to some
holy, trusted prudent man, he would be relieved
thereby and he does 1t. Now there is common
sense and philosophy In that. IL is this confession
which the Church encourages But this Is very
different thing from that which the Romlsh Church
demands OF It's people, requiring confession TO be
habitua and TO be an absolute preliminary to the
partaking OF the Holy Communion


$50 you think, Bishop, that the fears OF Bishop
Cummns and his friends are to large extent
groundlessf"


likely TO be moved from Its orbit as that the
Church OF England or our own Church will go over
to Rome.n


After a few pl ,asant remarks In the same drec-
tion the interview was closed.