Year: 1866

Jotnson's Talk with Douglass a. Co.


The delegation of colored representative.
from different states of the1 country, now il
Washington to urge the interests of the col
oTed people before the government, had an ia.
terview with the President on the afternoon oil
the 9th inst Fred Douglass and Mr.. Down
inr made speeches to the President stating
that they represented the colored people OF
the United States, and asked equality of rights
The President said


"In reply to some of your inquiries-not to
make speech about this matter, for it is al.
ways best to talk plainly and distinctly about
such questions-l will say that if ! have not
given evidence in my former course that am
a friend of humanity, and to that portion of it
which constitutes the colored population, can
give no evidence hereafter. Everything that
l have Lad, both as regards life and property,
| have perilled in this cause, and feel and
think that understand (not to be egotstical)
| what should be the true direction of this cues.
tion, and what course OF policy would result
in the amelioration and ultimate elevation of
rot onl' the colored, but of the great mass of
! people il the United States. say that if I
have not given evidence that am friend of
humanity and especially friend of the col
ored mar, in my past conduct, there is moth.
ing could do that would. repeat all tha.
possessed, lite, liberty and property, have been
put in connection with that question when
had every inducement held out to take an op-
posite course, by which l would have accom-
plished, perhaps, all that the most ambitious
might have desired


While say that am friend to the colored
race, do not want to adopt a policy that |
believe will end in contest between the ra-
ces, which. if persisted IN. will result in the ex-
termination Of one or the other. God forbid
that should be engaged in sncll n work now. .
II is always best to talk practically and in a
common sense way. have said, and repeat
here, that if the colored men in the w. S.
could find no other Moses or any Moses that
would be more able and sufficient than myself,
would be their Moses to lead them from
bondage to freedom; that | wosld pass them
from land where they had lived in slavery, to
a land, if it were in our reach, of freedom
| would be willing to pass them Though the
Red Sea to the land of promise-to the land
of freedom.


But am not willing, Under either circum-
stance, to adopt policy which believe will
only result in the sacrifice Of his life and the
shedding of his blood. thir know what
| say. feel what say, and feel assured
| that if the policy urged by some be persisted
in. it will result in great injury to the whit. as
| well as the colored man.


There is great talk about the sword in one
| hand accomplishing an end and the ballot ac-
complishng another at the ballotbox. These
| things are all very we'll and sometimes have
| lorcibe application. We talk about Justice,
we talk about right; we say that the white
| man has been in the wrong in keeping the
l,nl-c ,1vt, L.,
all true. Again, we talk about the Declara-
ton OF Independence, equality before the law
You understand all that and know how to ap-
preciate it. But now let US look each othersin
| the face; let us go to the great mass of col
ored men throughout the south; let US take the
condition they are in at the present time, and
| 1t Is bad enough, we all know, and suppose by
some magic touch you could say to every one,
"You shall vote Tomorrow" how much would
that ameliorate their condition at this time?


Now let US get closer up to the subject and
talk about it. What relation has the colored
man and the white man heretofore occupied in
the south? opposed slavery on two grounds.
VIZ: Firat, 1t was a great monopoly, enabling
those who controlled it to constitute an aris
tocracy, enabling the few to derive great prof
its, and rule the many with an iron rod, as it
were, and that is one great objection to it in
Soverpment-its being monopoly. | was
opposed to it on the abstract principle. In get
ting clear OF Il monopoly We were getting
clear OF slavery at the same time. SO YOU
see there were two ends accomplished in the
accomplishment Of the one"


Mr.. Douglass-"Mr. President, do you
wish"


The President-"I am not quite through
yet Slavery has been abolished. A great
national guarantee has: been given; one that
cannot be revoked l was getting at the re-
laton that existed between the white man and
the colored man. A very sma'i proportion of
with the whole number OF
l might cite the state of Tennessee as an it, |
lustration There were $4,000 non.slave-
holders, and yet the slave power controll-
ed that state. Let us talk about the matter
as it is. Although the colored man was in
slavery there, and owned as property in the
sense and in the language of that locality and
OF that community, yet in comparing his coudi-
ton and his position with that OF the non
Shareholder, he usually estimated his import.
ance in proportion to the number OF slaves his
master swned, with the non slav vehoder -
Have you ever lived upon plantation?"


MI. Douslass-"l have, your excellency."


The Presdent-.When you would lock over
and see man who had large family, strug.





thought great deal less of him than you did
OF your MASTER"


Mr.. .Dougluss-"Nor l."


The President-"Well, | know that such
was the case with large majority of you in
those sections where such is the case. We I
know there is an enmity, We know there is
hate. The poor white man, on the other hand,
was opposed to the slave and his master, for
the colored man and his master combined kept
him in slavery by depriving him Of IA fair par.
ticipasion in the labor and the productions of
the rich lands OF the country. Don't you
know that the colored man. in going to hunt a
master. as they call it, for the next year, pre-.
tclred hiring to man who owned slaves than
to one who aid not? l knew the fact, at all
events


Mr.. Doug,ass-"Because they treated him
better"


The President-"They did not consider it
quite as respectable to hire to man who did |
not own negroes, as to hire to one who did,"


Mr. Douslas-"Because he wouds't be
treated so we'll"


The Presdent-"Then that is another argu-
ment in favor of what | was going to say
1t shows that colOred men appreciated the
slave owner more highly than he did the man
who did not own slaves. Hence the enmi;y
between the colored~ man and the non slave



before government was derived from him. He
is part and parcel of the government now,
by rebellion or revolution, and should you
come back to the objects of this war, you will
tind that the abolition OF slavery was not one
of the objects. Congress and the President
declared that it was on our part in order to
suppress the rebellion. The abolition of slave
ry has become an incident to the suppression
Of the great rebellion.


If know myself and the feelings of my
own heart. they have been for the colored
man l have owned slaves and bought slave,
but l never sold one. l might say, however,
that practically, so far as my connection with
slaves has gone, have been their slave, in
stead Of their being mne Some have even
followed me here, while others are occupying
and enjoying my property with my consent {
Fer the colored race, my means, my time, my .
ILL., have been perilled, and now, at this late is
lay. after Giving EVIDENCE that is tangible and U