Year: 1879

find that power?


Mr.. SHIELDS. Look at that, sir, [ponting to
ton there it is Then they have these pensioners
going to these posts and again according to the
discretion OF these gentlemen here in Washington.


In the place. what notice they to give the pen
soners What notice you provide for these poor old
pensioners Just such notice as il peases this bureau to
give them K may be notice Of one ay or il may be one
month. In how many papers is 1t to be Published? One
paper such as the bureau chooses to select


The whole measure is sham from beginning to end
When say sham do not charge it upon the distin
gushed Senator from Kansas; but having over it'll
only wish had time to point out its features should
like to know who actually devised such BILL lie ought
to hare leather medal aud call upon The pensioners Of
Afaerica to gree him


All this testimony is be reduced to writing After
dragging the pensioners from their homes with all their
witnesses whom they must to the expense of summon
ng then the testimony TO be reduced to writing by
way of simplifying the system, by way of making it
working system, and it is to be reduced to writing in the
language of the Witnesses then it is to be forwarded to
the Commissioner of Pensions and then this board is to
examine. And who are they? Surgeons who expert
enced in the practice of medicine and surgery And who
the clerks? What kind of clerks? Clerks learned
in the law You are to go to this bureau to get clerks
who are learned in the law. That is my opinion. And
yet the clerks learned in the law are TO be sent to
regulate the pension system That is beautiful spec
regulation for the safely of the Government and the
Treasury and for the safety Of the honest portion Of
the pensioners and not the fraudulent ones This will
increase the difficulty of honest Are poor old pen
soners who the brink of the grave be drag
ged from their homes before this commission composed of
clerk learned in the law and surgeon learned in sur
gerry and incidence


dislike TO speak i'll this way but when know how it
is going to operate cannot sit silent in my place and
such thing done. do not say injustice is intended not
at all, certainly not by the committee, even by the
who framed this measure, for do not believe they
capable of seeing knowi where how injustice
is to be prevented.


MIR. EpMUNDs


This distinguished Senator from Vermont hurls
back denial to the SANDER heaped upon the PEN
sioners of the United States in the colloquial de-
I H. ~ H.


Ar. EDMUNDS Mr.. President | wish to deny for
the pensioners who reside in the State OF Vermont
far know for the pensioners residing in all other
States the mpuation that 20 per ID per
10 per cent anything like it the slightest degree
fraudulent and should like the proof of it, /
should like to know what the nature of the proof is The
statute that has existed all the under our pension
laws authorizes the Commissioner of Pensions either wifi
without the approval of the Secretary of Interior


do not remember which care for this purposewhen
he has to believe that any pension not
legally payable, to stop the payment of it, He therefore
has held all the time in his hands the power of stop
ping the payment OF any pension that he believed be
an unjust or fraudulent one. Why does he not If he
has the evidence which satisfies him that 10 per cent
which believe his statement of the pensions that are
paid are fraudulent why does lie not stop that 10 per
cent why does not somebody because the evidence of
fraud cannot be found by any general impression it
be found by an aggregation Of individual instances.
Z Mr.. INGALLS,. Several hundred cases were dropped
last and $500 900 saved to the pension fund


Mr.. EDMUNDs. Very good That shows that $780,
900 out of thirty million had been the Judgment OF the
Commissioner of Pensions improperly allowed. That
does not prove the case by any


i Mr.. DAVIS, of West Virginia. understand the Com
missioner to say that this plan recommended will
break up fraud and this is the way he find
out lie thinks under existing laws money has been
recovered but not much will be under the system
now proposed.


Mr.. EDMUNDS. Yes, but If the Secretary of the In
terror the Commissioner of Pensions is willing
responsible for saying that he has discovered any
probable ground for believing that 10 per of the
pensions fraudulent he must have discovered upon
the aggregation of individual The fact that he has
discovered $500 900 does that he could discover
million, any than the fact that you find that
one Senator in this body in years gone by has been guilty
ten fifteen just guilty and you therefore
institute measures to purge the Senate No such infer
ence follows by any means and hence say that if the
Commissioner of Pensions justified in saying to that
there 10 per cent per cent or per cent of these
payments of pensions that fraudulent unjust


must if he is wise and if he is honest in his report have
based that upon the information that he has to ndvd