Year: 1868




SATURDAY, April 49,


SENATE-The Senate met at III O'Clock a. m


After prayer the President pro fem vacated
the Chair for the Chief Justice, and the Court
formaliues.


The reading of the journal occupied fifteen
minutes.


The Chief Justice then announced the ones.
ton 10 be on admitting the testimony of Secre-
tary Welles, by which the counsel offer 10
prove that the veto message on the tenure-of-
once bill was prepared jointly by Messrs.
Seward and Stanton, and the subsea uent ac
ton of the Cabinet on the subject


Senator johnson propounded the query
whether do the counsel hold that the Managers
desired the statement of the President in his
message of December IL, as TO the opinion of
the CabiRet officers the ten ure o Office Ia "
and is this evidence offered to corroborate the
statements made in that message.


Senator Howard propounded the uuery
whether the counsel for the accused consider
that in this trial the Senate is called on TO con-
slider the question of the validity of the tenure
of.ofnce law, and whether, if so, they are to
take into consideration the opinions Of officers
OF the Cabinet respecting the constitutionality
of that law.


Some delay here occurred, when Senator
Edmunds asked if the Managers could not pro-
ceed with their argument, pending the ans wer
ing OF the queries which had been propounded
10 the counsel.


The Chief Justice said that in his opinion
the Managers might proceed.


Mr. curtis said that course would Just suit
the counsel.


Mr.. Manager Wilson then took the floor in
opposition TO the testimony being received, and
proceeded first to give an account of the mass.
age of the reof Off CT law and its re passage
over the veto, reading from manuscript and
staung the provisions of the Constitution rela-
tive 10 the reconsideration of bills which have
been returned by the President with his veto
The builders of the Constitution provided for
every contingency, they knew that q law to be
effective must be re-enacted, and hence il pro
yidts that the President shall take care thar
the laws be faithfully executed 1t il be NOT
true that the Secretaries is obliged TO carry out
the laws then there is no use OF making laws
II Inc Executive can overruIe the action of the
legislative, what is the use of having a Lagis-
lature at all! Tocqueyille commenting on
American Democracy, says: That il is essen
tal that the Executive shall be subject TO the
national Will, and if he does not carry out its
bel ests shall be cursed. and that the Con stitu- =
ton provided for all this 1t is prepostarous
Tor respondent to attempt 10 defend himself by
paraolng here the opinions of his Cabinet
officers that law Is unconstitutional His
highest and most solemn duty is to see that the
laws passed in pursuance of the forms of the
Constitution are faithfully executed. For a
Wlllful declination to execute the national will l.
he cannot offer in eXtenuation the views of any
one. The respondent has placed himsel If within
the powrr OF the two Houses by impeachment,
for ms refusal TO execute a law duly passed.
and also for violation of the penal laws of the
country. The Executive Is subordinate TO the
legislative arm. Even In treat Britain the
e.
negatives from any source, and Parliament rs
the supreme power of the realm, notwith stand :
ing the saying that the King can do no wrong.
Mr.. W. here referred to the resolutions m :
tIoduced in the House of Commons by
General Conway, calling fer an immediate
cessation of the attempts TO reduce
and the Difference paid to il by the ministry.
Lord North saying that, as the ministry We're
bound TO obey the orders of the Commons, and
that it was scarcely probable that minister
m S. lnxr- Il I,Cxr al..Y.
wise the King to act counter to the wishes of
Parliament. This was a sublime spectacle of
the power Of Parliament and to-day the roar
OF the British lion is no more than the voice of
the House of Commons The voice of the
legislature is the law alike for King. President
and people. The President has no control of
the matter but to enforce the legislative will
In no case mas he the power to exercise any
discretion on the subject, except it is imposed
upon him by express enactment He has the
right TO recommend the enactment or the repeal
by his veto, but here all his control ceases.
The United States has no common law to
Iail back upon in case of violation of
me written law. If this assumption of
the Executive now is conceded, il will
sap the very foundations Of the Government
and put the country in fearful perIls. If the
President is allowed TO interpose his authority
against the carrying out Of any law, then aHy
and every inferior officer of the Government
may do the same thing 1t is the duty of the
President to obey the laws of Congress while





assume to disobey one of them, then his subor-
dlnate officers can refuse 10 obey other laws
and even TO obey b Is orders, and thus the Gov
ernment would be thrown in inextricable con-
fusion. Concede To- the President immunity
through the advice Of his Cabinet officers and
You reverse the theory of our free Government
With these remarks lie left the ouestion to the
decision of the Senate


MIR. Curtis said the time had not vet arri we'd
10 discuss the merits of this case, and however
interesting the elaborate argument which had
just been delivered, the questions raised by il
were not now Before them. The case was n OF
ON final Judgment-the testimony was not ali
IN. The question now is, whether certain tes.
tmoDy offered by the counsel shall be received.
ahd 10 that point he would address himself
One of the articles of Impeachment alleged that
the President IN issuing the order to General
1homas, intended TO violate the Constitution;
and the evidence which they now offered TO
put IN had bearing on the matter of intent, and
by II they offered to prove that such was not
the intent OF the President. The honorable
manager claimed that the evidence was wholly
immaterial: and if that was so. the article was
1mlnateTial and the Senate must so regard it,
Whether, however, his argument was sound or
unsound, 1t could do no harm to admit this evil
dence. He did not intend to enter now into the
character OF this Cabinet council. One thing is
certain. that every President from the founda.
ton OF the Government has been IN the habit of
calling his Cabinet together for oral counsel
as TO matters which might arise in the
course of his official duties. President
johnson found it in existence when he
u.
In answer TO the query Of the Senator from
Michigan, (Mr. Howard,) he would say that
the validity OF the tenure-of-office bill, or of
any other bill, is of course purely question of
law; as TO whether it is to be determined by the
Senate he cannot answer. That is q question
for the Senate itself to answer. Be IL true or
false that The President has committed an in.
fraction of the law, he has not committed an
impeachahle offence, or the Senate may con.
slider that the question as to whether the Pres.
ident deemed that the time had arrived when
the consiitutionality Of the law must be tested
Again. they did not put Cabinet ON sers on the
stand with the view that their opinion of the
con pstitutioI ality Of the law would have any
inf uenee on the Senate, but they put them on
the stand to show that the President took the
advice of counsel. In answer to the Senator
from Maryland, Mr.. Johnson,) he would say
that the honorable Managers could better an.
swer the question. This Is an affair Of the ut
most gravity, and the counsel desire to exam
inc the Cabinet ministers to ascertain what
passed, and for the purposes they had stated.


Senator Williams here propouHded- the
advice given to the President BY his Cabin et in
reference TO the veto Of q bill, pertinent to his
violation Of IL after II had become law -


Mr.. Curtis thought il was pertinent. n
showed the action of the President and the "A.
vice received by him on q law which be hon.
esny b. heved to be unconstitutional -
The Chief Justice then decided the evidence
admissible, when Senator Howard asked q
vote OF the Senate, and the Senate refused 70
receive II a. follows:
Ytas,---Messrs. Anthony, Bayard, Buckalew,
D4vis. DiYau naolitfla R>.S,usloua- E~ ~x,lov