Year: 1867

@ Have you at any time heard the
President make any remark in reference
to the admission ofmembers OF Congress
from rebel States into either Houses2


A. | cannot say, positively, what
have heard him say on that subject
have heard him say as much, perhaps
in bis published speeches last summer
as | ever heard him say upon that sub
ject have heard him say, and think
have heard him say twice, in bis
speeches, that If the North carried the
elections by members enough TO give
them, with the Southern members o
majority, why would they not be sthe
Congress Of the United States. | have
heard him say that several times.


By Mr.. Williams-When you say the
North you mean the Democratic party
Of the North, or, in other wo.ds, the party
favoring his policy2


A. mean ifthe North carried enough
members in fsY5f of the admission Of fthe
South | dill not hear him soy that he
would recognize them as Congress.
merely heard him ask the question why
would they not be the Congress. heard
him say that in one or two speeches. Do
not recollect where.


By Mr. Boutwell-Have you heard him
make a remark kindred to that elsewhere


A. Yes; | have heard him say that
aside from his speeches, in conversation.
cannot say just when it was probably
about that same time.


Q Have you heard him, at any time,
make any remark on the suggestion con.
cerning the legality Of Congress, with
Southern members excluded


A. He alluded to that subject fire..
quently on his tour to Chicago and back,
last summer His speeches were gene
rally reported with considerable accu-
racy Cannot recollect what he said,
except in general terms; but | read his
speeches at the time. They were re-
ported with considerable accuracy. /
do not recollect having heard him say
anything private on that subject spe-
cially. / never heard him allude to the
Executive Department of the Govern
ment / never heard him make any
remarks looking to a controversy be-
tween the Executive and Congress.


By Mr.. Marshall-I understand you
to say that you were very anxious at the
close of the war that civil government
should be established in some form, and
you so advised the President


A. / so stated frequently in his pres
ence, but ] advised no particular form of
proceeding.


Q. Were you present when this North
Carolina proclamation was read in Cabi-
net


A. ! would not be certain, but am of
the opinion that the first time | heard it
read was in the presence of the Presi-
dent and the Secretary of War only.


Q. Did you assent to that plau2


A. | did not dissent from it. 1t was
civil matter; and, although | was anx
ious to see something done, / did not in
tend to dictate plan. / do not think /
expressed any opinion about it at the
time. | locked upon it as simply
temporary measure until Congress should
meet and settle the whole question, and
that it did not make much difference how
it was done so that they had form of
government there. Think was present
at the time by invitation of either the
President or Secretary of War. / sup.
pose the object was that l should ex-
press my views if / could suggest any
change. | do not think | was asked my
views, ! know that if had beer asked
the question, would have assented to
that or almost anything else that would
have given stable governments to them.
In reference to the opinion gave the
President on the amnesty proclamation,
/ think nave testified pretty freely. /
told the President l disagreed with him
on the clause excluding Brigadier Cen
erals and as to the $40, 900 clause. Ibid
not say anything as to the rest, whether
it was too lenient or too stringent Can
state what / thought about it, but not
what | said. / know that Immediately
after the close of the rebellion
there was very fine feeling mani
Tested in the South, and / thought we
ought to take advantage of it as soon
as possible but am sure there has been |
an evident change there. may have
expressed my views to the President; | |
do not recollect particularly. / do not
suppose there we're any PERSONS engaged |
in that consultation who thought of what |
was being done at that time, as being to |
last any longer than until Congress
would meet, and either ratify that or
establish some other form of government.
| know it never crossed my mind that
what was being done was anything more
than temporary. l understand this to
be the view of the President and of every
body else. did not know of any diff
ference or opinion on the subject. He
was very anxious to have Congress ratify
lis views. Mr.. Lincoln, prior to his as
had inaugurated a policy
Intended to restore those governments.
was present twice before his murder,
when plan was read. The plan adop
ed by Mr. johnson was substantially the
plan which had been inaugurated by Mr..
lincoln as the basis for his future action.
don't know that it was rerbdtim the
anne; | think the very paper which |
leard read twice, while Mr. Lincoln was
President, was the one which was carried
light through.


Q What paper was that 2
A. The North Carolina proclamation.
Q You understood that Mr. Lincoln's
Ian was temporary, to be either con-
rmed or new government set up by
'ongress2 I
A. Yes. And / understood Mr. John.
on's to be so too. That was my opinion r.
never heard the President say the plan
Ias to be temporary, but | was satisfied
verybody looked on it as simply tempo !
ary, until Congress met


Q You stated that the Presidents
reclamation was a continuation Of the
rojeet submitted by Mr.. Lincoln. l =