Year: 1862

the prohibition, and asked him Why, if he was
a really true, sincere Union man, have an empty
| prohibition when the laws of nature were q
stronger prohibition than any that could be pass
ed by act of Congress? [Ilear, hear.] That he
waived by saying that he was committed on this
subject. Then it was that l replied to him, ''Mr.
President, you say you were accidentally selected
and elected by party. You were the candidate
of the party, but when you were elected, sir,
thought have been taught to bclieve-that
you were the President OF the Union. l opposed
you. SIR said to him, with all the zeal and
energy Of which was master. l endeavOred to
prevent your election, not because had any per-
sonal feelings of enmity towards you, but be-
cause believed that it would lead to the very
result we now witness. / opposed you, sir. but
you are my President; you have b9en elected
according to the forms of the Constitution, and
you are the President of the people Of the United
States, and think that some little Difference is
due to the opinions of those who constitute the
majority according to the vote that had been
polled. of llOO, 900 men in the United States"
He at once very briskly sad ''lf he was q
minority President he was not the first, and that
at all events he had obtained more votes than we
could muster for any other man." | think. as
near as can recollect, those are about his ident-
cal words. l responded at once TO him that did
not intend to recall to him that he was minority
President but to announce the broad TACT that he





him. but of the whole people of the United States,
and that of the wishes and feelings and interests
OF the whole people Of the United States-the
party with 100000 majority as we'll as the min
ority party by whom he was elected, ought to be
consulted by him. Donovan here interposed and
presented three alternative propositions to him.
First that he might remain perfectly idle and
passive, and let the disntegration OF the States
20 on as it had gone on; second give guarantees;
or, third, resort to coercion and attempt to force
the seeding states into obedience. He illustra-
ted very distinctly and clearly those three prop
ositons.


When the conversation had slackencd a little,
ventured to appeal to him, in manner in which
| n yer appealed to any other man and never eX-
pcct to do again. ! said that as to the last propo-
stion desired to say one word-that trusted
and prayed to God that he would not resort to
coercion that if he did, the history of his Admin
isration would be written in blood. and all the
waters of the Atlantic Ocean could never wash it
from his hands. ["Hear, hear and applause]
He asked me whit would do, and ii meant ny
coercion the collecting of the revenue and the Ia
king back Of the forts which he said belonged to
the United States | replied that that was the
only mode in which it was possible that he could
under the Constitution. resort to cocrcon-by an
attempt to collect the revenue and to take back
the forts. He had placed himself in chair with
rounds to it, with his feet upon the highest round
"A long, hnky man. with very large whiskers,
with his elbows upon his knees and his hands
upon the sides of his face in attitude OF listening,
and when he would speak he would drop his hands
and raise his head


Dropping his hands and raising his head. he
said he would tell me little anecdote when mad
happene him when he first came to the bar An
old man, he said, had applied to him to bring.
suit and made out capital case. rs he thought;
but when the evidence was detailed before the
Jury ii was the worst case he had ever listened to-
and while the evidence was going on the Old man
WAS listening TO the evidence himself and whlsp-
cred in his ear "Guv it up [Laughier]-
Oh. said he .Guvcrnor wouldn't this be 'guv'n
it up?' u assure you Mr.. Chairman, don't pre-
sent it in any Ii 5ht different from that in which
it actually occurred none whatever. SAID 10
him. Mr.. President, it may be he said that 1t
would be guven' it up, but hadn't you better guy
it up without bl0odshed than drench this land
with blood and then have to guy it up?'' ZAP
plause] He then asked what he had to do with
his oath of Office. lie said he had sworn to see
the laws faithfully executed; and addressing him.
self to me. he said, IL would like to know from
you what | am to do with my oath of Office"


| said to him that he had taken solemn Oath
to see the law faithfully executed; but that Con.
gress was then in session, and application had
been made to Congress to give the President oil
the United States the power to collect the
revenue by armed vessels outside eft the ports,
anl Congress had refused to give the power.
"If" said, Congress fails to give the necessary,
power, Mr., President, to you to collect the reven-
ue by vessels outside the port show are you to col
lect it? Do you think you can send Collector
to the port of Charleston to the port OF Savannah
or of New Orleans to collect the revenue there?
Is it not an impossibibiity, and does your oath
bind you to do a thing that is impossible? AS to
the FORTS that is a matter within your discretion
sir. You are the Commandcr-in-C Chief, and it
belongs to you either to keep them there or to
withdraw them totally and prevent collision.
and consequently ruinous and deadly war"
I .sWolI ;; bo raising himself oUain 81 will
only answer you by telling you little anecdote
which struck me-excuse me-" said he "a little
anecdote which struck me as you were going on.


"lt is from Esops Fables, and doubtless in your
schooboy days you have read it. Esop you
know" says he. "llustratcs great principles often
by ing mute animals speak and act. and
according to him there was a lion that was once
desperately in love with beautiful lady and he
coarted the lady, and the lady became enamored
OF him and agreed to marry him, and the old peo-
pie were asked for their consent They were
afraid of the power of the lion, with MS long
and sharp claws and tusks, so they said to him:


1--we can have no objection TO so respectable
a parsonage as you; but our daughter is frail and
delicate and we hope that you will submit to
have your claws cut off and your tnsks drawn:
because they ght do very serious injury to her"
The lion submitted, being very much in love.
| His claws were cat off and This tusks drawn and
they took clubs then and knocked him on the
head" [Laughter.]


| replied. think, about in substance this
that it was an exceeding interesting anecdote,
and very apropos but not altogether satisacto-
ry answer 10 me, and then said to him, 'Mr. Lin
coin, this is to me- sir. the most serious and all
absorbing subject that has ever engaged my attcn-
ton as a public man. deprccate and look with
horror upon fratricidal war. look to the injury
| that it is to do, not only to my own section
that know is to be desolated and drenchcd in
blood-but l look to the injury that it is to the
cause of humanity ITSELF and Iappeal to you,
apart from these jests TO lend US your aid aad
countcnance in averting calamity like that"
We had before that conversed sitting in semi
circle round the President; but Mr. Rives rose
from his chair. and. with a dignity and eloquence
that have seldom heard in the course OF my life
he appealed to him. l could not pretend to give
even the substance OF his speech, but remem-
Der that he told him that he was then very ola