Year: 1868

AdjutA Mt General But even thing so innocent q


Grated, thc time altered changed BY the declara
ttons Of the parties one for the other


sS no than obeSns 10 ANN ev


dence OF what tho President says, which Is not par


OF the thing DONE art OF the res 0est or any con


Mr.. STANBERY-Mr, chef Justice. II understand
the case the gentleman eupposes It to be- now the


whole case depends OH the removai OF stanton.


Mr. BUTLER-I have not saia any sucn thing.
don't know what you understand.


Mr.. STANBERY-You say Ii stands between STAN
TONS commission and the order for his removal And
stop theres That is the question. And agree my
self that your case stops with that order because
agree with the view taken by the honorable Manager
that It did in fact Stanton. II did it was
law that gave 1t that effect There is no question
an custer by force here, but question about legal


removal. understand the Manager to say that that
%a m no ms aSs ana r
move him out Of the Oflce-he was already out. II
Stanton Is out by the order, then it must be legal
custer. But, says the learned Manager, the transac


ton ended In giving the order and receiving the
said by the President or General Thomas, ex,
cept what was said just then, because that was
the the transaction that was the res 0estae Does
Does he forget how he attempted to make
casef Does he forget what took place on all the
not what we are now going into, but what took
place at nightf Does he forget the sort OF case
against Tie freSlQent not NJ the ume Wnen tniC
order was gven nor before nor at the period which
we are now taking but at night under hts conspiracy
countsS The gentleman has undertaken to give In
Thomas declared that he going to enter that office
by force. That Is the matter which our evidence
General Thomas and the President was one that
should be executed. by the exhibition Of force, in-
tmdation and threats, And to prove that, what has
made under oath, as we propose to have them made
now, but his declarations not made under oath,
tradict him-not as now, under oath-not of
conversation when the President could contradict
make case against the President Of this conspiracy;
and not merely that but on the 22d again; and not
only that but so far back as the 9th Of March, at
the Presdent's evee, brings witness here with the
eyes OF all Maryland upon him.


Mr.. BUTLER and Senator JOHNSON simultaneous


Mr.. SrANBERY-Delaware- the eyes Of all
Delaware upon him." He proves by that witness, or
thinks he proves that on that night General Thomas
also made declaration involving the President in
Mr.. Stanton out Of Office Well, now, how are we to
up In regard to the 9th, the 2st the 22d and again
early as March, Does not the transaction run all
along through? How is the President to
General Thomas IN the first place! May
he not call General Thomas Is General
mouth Is shut with regard to the transactiona Not
at all. He Is brought here as Witness What bet
evidence can we have to contradict this conspiracy
than that OF one Of the conspratorsS For If Thomas
did not conspire the President did not c0nsplre.
man cannot conspire by himself Alone How are we
to contradict without this testimony What was
stated In regard to the night OF the 2lstY There Is
an interview the afternoon Of the 2lst. wish to
show that when he received that order he gave no
orders and gave no Instructions to use force,
but at the subsequent meeting on the af.
ternooI aa Of & that day when Thomas
ONCE. The President gave no directions and entered
into no conspiracy. And that accordingly, on the
night OF the 2lst when General Thomas spoke Of his
own intentions, he had authority to speak for the
President. 1t seems to me that that is the very best
e can nd gvs and ns s o % s
not after the proof the other side is ended to
the conspiracy but 1t is long before. They are not
through with their proof, and may have evidence


Mr.. BUTLEF-Mr. President, think must have
poorly Or Be b
learned COUNSEL This is my objection-not that they
shan't prove by General Thomas that he did not say
what he did say TO Mr.. Burleigh. He will be bold
man to say that he did not say It, howevernot that
they shant prove that he said what he did say TO
which Is competent to be shown. But the PROPOSE
ton make is legal proposition; and It has not been
not pretend to show that General Thomas
did not say to Mr.. Burlegh "we are not to use
what wa wgs a the
not put In his declaration, and challenge law
book to be brought In before the Senate, common
law, Parliamentary law, statutory law, c0nstitu-
tional law or law unto yourselves. In any law we
meet no such proposition as that was ever held-it
tell me II q case where, after a man has
done an act which act is complained Of and when he


na 70
order TO his Justification What thief could not de.
fend himself by that means-what murderer could
saton, the for.the other and the other for the
one, after the act done Now 1t is said
on by some little snap catch Of word
that l said there was q removal, and therefore
hia hpr W n n
President Pres Of the United states could exercise the
naly, responsible for Il; SO far as he must
be held to every ntendment Of the con, con,
1Ses OF as to
Mr.. President, he Is the chief Executive. He has
the army and the navy. He has issued an order to
now upon this proposition-nOt that the President
shan't ask General Thomas Sir, do you conspre ~
and will ask him in return "Do you conspre with
But my proposition Is that they cannot put in what
the President said to Thomas and what Thomas
the order. The learned counsel says "Why,
these gentlemen Managers have put in what
so we can what the President said all along. 1t Is
the commonest thing In all courts Of justice
where ! have seen cases tried and where have
thing In the world to put In the conversation OF
criminal made down to the day OF trial, made the
% into the the SocS but wno heard %
case OF bringing what he said to his accomplice
after the act was done be the act what 1t mays IL
Is said we must allow them to put this
act In because the President cannot de-
fend himself otherwise. lie has all the
facts to defend himself What mean TO say is that
he shan't defend himself by word Of mouth; and
do not claim that the conspiracy was made between
the 2lst of February and the 7th Of March. l claim
that IL was made before that time, and expect to
be able before get through to convince everybody
else OF 1t. say that find certain testimony OF 1t
between these two dates. / do not object to them
asking General Thomas what he said to Mr.. Burlegh,
or what he said to any else. have put I'm what
he said about t; but to putting In the Presidents
declaration after the time do not want any more OF
these exceptions We have the simple orders given
by the President to his subordinate. II Ia q very
harmless thing, quite In the common course, given
to sustain the constitution and the law;n
and the officer says " shall sustain the constitution
and the law.n Don't we understand what that Is
IL Is declaration made for the purpose OF evidence.
Does he ever say to any oficer as he commissions
him, Now want you to sustain the constitution