Year: 1868

4


isthe presiding officer OF this body and under the


stution and laws win become The President Of the


be tried bs sustained the constituol providing


that in such the possible cannot even


consideration Of the presiding ocer and Of the Senate


whether, bsng Senator representing State it s COM


pesn for him. notwithstanding that, TO take the oath


question on two grounds-on the ground that the con-


stuton does not allow him TO- preside during these


deliberations because Of his possible succession and on


the preliminary legal ground that is interested in


view OF his possible connection with the office should


tue result or the proceeding be successful Therefore


not possible for him TO sit member OF the court


Mr. SHERMAN argued that the constitution itself settled


should not preside on the trial OF an mpeachmsnt OF
the President, but being silent as to his right
to be member Of the court II follows BY implication
| Mr.. Howard. trep) OF Mlch-I do not suppose that


UNDER the constitution any Senator be challenged


concur entirely in the views presented by the honora-


pie Senator from Ohio Mr. shermanl The objection
drcksl understand It properly is upon the ground
OF interest In the question shout to be decided by
senate sitting upon the trial OF an impeachment Now


SIT as mas been very justly remarked each State has
the righ. to send to the Senate two members and the
constitution declares whatever may the character Of
accused or their interest in the question involved they
shall be component parts Of the body trying mpeach-
ment II an objection based upon the ground Of
interest be tenablo, an objection on the ground Of
annity must also be available. The Senate has
already seen one member OF its body proceed to


take the oath prescribed in our rules who is known to
DC related by affinity to tho accused can sce dis
uncton between the case OF an objection based upon


interest and one raised upon affinity. Besides sir the
Senator from Ohio. who now ocrs 70 tako tho OATH
but President pro tenpore Of the Senate It is possible
and merely possible that he remain in that capa-
city until the conclusion OF these proceedngs but at
the same time is not to be overlooked that il is but


times to choose another President pro mpore to preside
over its proceedings; and cannot, therefore, any
lection taken by the honorable Senator rom Indiana


,hinK the Senator from Ohio, the President pro tenn
OF n this body, should proceed to take the oath.


ton tnat should bc settled upon just principles. He
had doubt the President pro TEN. would far he
was able under the temptation to which he would be
SUBJECTED decide fairly upon the ISSUE But the general
rule applicable to jcry well o court was that no
interest in the trial. II was true the constitution pro-
vdod that this court should be composed OF the Senators
would exclude them from the privileges OF becoming
members OF the court Tho constitution provided that
the Judiciary shall consist Of Chief Justice and Asso-
ciate Judges whose number from time time may be
increased but he never heard questioned that by the
constitution and laws judge Of tho United States Court
would be permitted to sit In case in which he had
direct interest II by means followed, therefore,
that because tho Senator such entitled to bc
on the ground Of interest when the Chief Justice
OF the Supreme Court liable to 1t. II Senators
would look at the 6sth number Of the Feeralia they
would find that the construction OF the court on an i'm
peachmen OF the President derived from precedens
before the House o - the ne case of
ton that when IL proposed to exclude q Senator
from r, Now Jersey M s,ockton By vote Of twOhrds
ary in order to satisfy the Senate that Mr. Stockton
had no right to vote in his case cited many


this ground that that gentleman denied that prvi-
lege. Now, said Mr.. Johnson what was his case as
compared with the OF the honorable Senator from
ohios He was to have temporary seat
in this body, invested only. with that proper
OF the which any member Of this body has
His office, therefore, would bo comparatively unimpor.


ant and t was adudged by the Senate, as well as can
mir
by those who thought that Mr. Stockton entitled
to his seat that he should not be permitted to vote
upon that question. How does his case compare with
that OF the honorable Senator from Ohiof He becomes
In contingency which this impeachment seeks to
the United States, invested with oil the executive
power OF the government Is 1t rightS Would any.
might lead him. unknowngy to himself into an erro.
neous Judgments The whole executive power OF tho
limited states to say nothing Of tho pscunsry oompsn
lars his in certain result Of the prosecution His
vote may produce that result submit therefore, and
the honorable member from Ohio that 1t is to tho
cause Of impartial justice, It is duo to the character Of
there should no, be established precedent
which may in the end produce excitement and
is II, Mr.. Chief Justice, that you are
here to piosdoover tho deliberations OF this court 1t
is because. in the judgment Of our fathers, II
deemed improper that any should be placed In a
situation in which the honorable member will be placed
member OF this court Our fathers thought nt there
FORE to incorporate into the constitution that hc who
was to bs benefited by tho result should not be per-
mtted even to preside over tho deliberations Of this
court when the President OF tho United States Is


ce onr e 1s IN & As % an
division, cannot be permitted even to be member OF
the court or to preside over It's deliberations II was
Mr.. Chief Justice, because our fathers were deeply
versed in the history OF the world perfectly acquainted
with the frailties Of men, exhibited in the history Of
dent OF the United States the privilege Of sitting
the daberatlos OF the court much less Of voting
Of things which would make him President /
do not know that we are able to decide this
question a. once NY IS sG such m as have
question: II will be considered grave and important
one in tho eyes Of the country and Il should be by the
submit to you and to the Senate whether IL Is not
be,tor postpone the decision in this until
what are the ppeceaens Of the House Of Lords Should
they prove to be what think they are, them unless
are ready to depart from the model upon which was
formed this high tribunal the Senate ought
to decide, and have no doubt the honorable member
decision and himself see the proprsty Of so acting that
he Is entitled to take his scat q member OF thu
body move. therefore. that the question be post


Mr. DAVIS, (dem) of KY, argued that the question
to be decided principle, and that principle
men who was TO succeed the President In case OF re.
mova from Office should not take part in tho trial Of
within the letter of the constitution II did come clearly
within Its principle and meaning


Mr. MORRILL,. rep) OF Me argued tnat tner3 was no
party before the court make the objection and that
II did not lie In the mouth OF ono Senator to raise
objection against fellow Senator When the party ap
peared here objection could lie made and argued
but here and now. II seemed TO him that there was
option and distinction but to administer the oath
to all Senator'S


Mr. HESDRIcgs argued that Il inherent In q court
TO Judge OF ss qualifications, aud that It not
for Senator TO present the question II was for the
court itself 70 determine whether O member claiming


seat in the court was entitled to IT, therefore tho
qu eston was not Immediately made. The suggestion
OF Senator Howard that Senator Wade might not
tiuue TO be President OF the Senate no answer
the objection When no should cease 10 be the pre-
siding officer OF the Senate he could be In but
now this time, he incompetent In the case Of
Senator Stockton of New Jersey, the question had
been decided There held that tho Senator being
Interested in the result OF the vote had fright TO
vote One OF the standing rules OF the Senate itself
was that no Senator should vote whom he had interest
in the result OF tho vote. But In his judgment tho
constitutional ground higher than the question
Of interest Tho Vice President not allowed by tho