Year: 1869

md L am rlgnt, ana Wherever you
will find permanent national debt, one
that has not been paid of, you will find
there is no freedom Spain is not free,
England is not free, because each
Of those countries has a permanent
national debt 1t is in the nature
OF things, for wherever there are power
and moneyed aristocracy there is always
desire for a union between the two. Here
we have an executive power controlled by
the bondholders. Grant is ruled by a
miserable set Of hucksters, and bondhOld-
ers He is in their hands completely, and
therefore we are in danger. The country
is in peril, for the bOndhOlders are
striving to rule the Government.
The people ought to be made to under
stand this condition. The people need to
be indoctrinated with the truth, and YOU
gentlemen of the press can do ii. You
write great deal and ell that, but some
times you write things and shoot off to
the public without due consideration. You
do good deal of harm, and it takes a
good deal of time TO remove the effect.
Now you have an opportunity to do good
by explaining these matters to the people
through the press The farmer and pro-
ducer, no matter how humble, are always





You can show them the right. They have
an interest in doing what is best, but you
must explain what the best course is, aud
then they viii adopt it. So you must
make them understand what produce is
worth and what the credit of the bond
holder is good for. You must give proper
direction and these will follow.


Correspondent-Wha do you regard as
the proper course for the crisis?


Johnson-Why, sir, l sometimes won
der whether there be not some strange
halluclnatiOn over me. | put my hand
to my head and ask myself if 1 am sane.
find myself using arguments that were
deemed sensible and irresistible by some
of the greatest miuds of the country, and
yet they are unheeded, perhaps laughed
at. | have found myself obliged to think
deeply, when 1 Was President, over great
constitutional questions have called to
my aid the most capable minds in the
country, and have drawn from them their
advice and wisdom, and then comparing
all, and adding what little might arise in
my own mind, have endeavored to pre-
sent close, cogent, logical statement 10
the people, and yet have seen such argu-
ments fall upon the public mind just lise
water on ducks back. They rolled off
without making an impression. l have
been almost stunned at the apathy in the
public mind. Talk of the Constitution
and the liberty of rights that used
to be held sacred and lnviolable, and
you are deemed scarcely worthy of
an answer other than laughter.
What We want, what the country
demands, is solid, constitutional Gov
ernment. Take my own State of Ten
nessee, and | only use it as an illustration,
there all the wealth, all the element that
pays the taxes, that combines the intelli-
gence and respectsbility of the State, is
deprived of the ballot. Fifty thousand
negroes, with 10000 whites, make gov
ernment there for 100000 people. Sew
enty Thousand out of voting population
OF 2O0, 900 make the laws, while that TO-
600 does not represent the wealth, respect
ability or intelligence of the State. Sew
enty thousand voters enslave 10000
voters and population of 100000.


Further on in the interview, speaking
of Grant, the ex-President saidl:


As said before, he is mere accident
There has been great social upheaval, and
Grant is left on the top and thinks there
Is something in him. 1t is precisely like
volcanic disturbance. The natural con-
dition of the earth is broken up, stratum
alter stratum is broken through, things are
disnlaced and turned upside down, and what
should be at the bottom is thrown high up.
That Is just Grants case. Why, Ben. But
Ter had a wonderfully correct idea of Grant.
lie used to come to see me much at one time,
and expressed the profoundest contempt
for Grant. His estimate of Grant was
about the same as my own. He thought
that Grant could be made to do anything,
that he could be made complete tool, and
that II he desired he could have himself
been invited to Grants house. 1t hap
pened precisely so, afterward, just as But
ler boasted. You remember Butler was
invited to Grants house, and it was
brought about by Butler bimself Butler
understands Grant thoroughly. Ihave no
hesitation in declaring that Grant is a
mean, avaricious. cunning, spiteful man
complete bundle of petty jealousies,
spites, and lies. He has no courage.
made him fairly quail before my glance at
the Cabinet meeting when l asked him
about that famous correspondence con-
corning Stanton. l asked him question
after question, and he quailed. When
finished he stood up, took his hat in his
hand, and in mean, sneaking way, said,
Gentlemen, have you any more questions
to ask?" and SUNK out of the room.
convicted him of lying and cowardice
then, and you remember all about it, sir,
for you published it at the time.


The ex President said a great many
other things spicy and interesting, but as
the hour is 80 late | am obliged to break
Off