derivatives but not in the Oh but Right he So d we but don't doesn't doesn't know what they look like on the But tsk he didn't h have it for the energy raw it for the derivatives So Yeah I mean there might be something there I don't know Huh Interesting Here I I Oh that yeah in a good q did did you have this sort of thing for just the just the l r uh the the unnormalized No log energy I haven't the result OK Yeah So but she right the a the the might following good to know what it looks like Yeah Cuz Huh uh cuz mentioned scatter plots before but right I mean even before you get the scatter plots just looking at a single feature Yeah uh looking at the distribution is a good thing to do Catal uh Combining the different possibilities of uh the parameters I I I I mean the the the scatter plot combining eh different n two combination Yeah combination but what saying is which of is energy and I mean derivate the Before we get complicated start with the most basic wh thing which is arguing that if you take energy uh if you look at the energy that when two people are speaking at the same time usually be more energy than when one is Yeah right that sort right hypothesis And the first way look at that uh s you know absolutely right is that you would just take a look at the distribution of those two things Yeah much as plotted them here You Yeah but just but just just uh do it Well in this case you have three You have the silence and that Yeah fine So uh with three colors or three shades or whatever just just Yeah look at those distributions And then given that as a base you can see if that gets improved you know or or or worsened by the looking at regular energy looking at log energy we were just proposing that maybe you know harder to see with the log energy Yeah um and uh also these different normalizations does a particular choice of normalization make it better But I had maybe made it too complicated by suggesting early on that you look at scatter plots because looking at a distribution in two dimensions Yeah off just in one Yeah uh with this feature Yeah probably the most basic thing before anything very complicated Yeah Um And then we w I think agreed that I agree yeah things are are are going to be a a really likely candidate to help Um OK But since uh your intuition from looking at some of the data is that when you looked at the regular energy that it did in fact usually go up Yeah when Yeah two people were talking Yeah yeah yeah eh you know you should be able to come up with a measure which will match your intuition And right that a that having a But having having this table with a whole bunch of things with the standard deviation the variance and so forth harder to interpret than just looking at the But the same kind of picture you have here It curious but uh I f I found it in the in the mixed file in one channel that eh in several oh e eh several times eh you have an speaker talking alone with a high level of energy eh in the middle eh a zone of overlapping with mmm less energy and eh come with another speaker with high energy and the overlapping zone has eh less energy Yeah So be some cases there for which very many Right But the qu So So be This is I w want to point to visual things But I mean they be time be overlap between the distributions but the question is If a reasonable feature at all some separation Yeah Especially locally So just Locally And other thing is I Sorry I was just going to say that that right now just exploring Yeah What you would imagine eventually is that feed all of these features into some discriminative system Yeah Yeah even if if one of the features does a good job at one type of overlap another feature might do a good job Yeah another type of overlap is I the mean the the reason I had suggested the scatter f p features is I used to do this a lot when we had thirteen or fifteen or twenty features to look at um Because something is a good feature uh by itself you don't really know how behave in combination and so nice to have as many as many together at the same time as possible in uh in some reasonable visual form cool graphic things people have had sometimes to put together three or four in some funny funny way But true that you shouldn't do any of that unless you know that the individual ones at least have Yeah some uh especially hope for normalizing I mean really important to pick a normalization that matches the distribution for that feature And it may not be the same for all the types of overlaps or the windows may not be the same e Actually I was wondering right now taking a all of the speech from the whole meeting and trying to find points of overlap but we don't really know which speaker is overlapping with which speaker right Right Yeah So I mean another way would just be to take the speech from just say Morgan And just Jane and then just their overlaps like but by hand by cheating and looking at you know if you can detect something that way because if we can't do it that way no No good prayer way that going to be able to do it That You know there might be something helpful and cleaner about looking at just individuals and then that combination alone Plus I think it has more elegant e The m the right model will be easier to see that way So if I don't know if you go through and you find Yeah Adam cuz he has a lot of overlaps and some other speaker who also has e enough speech and just sort of look at those Yeah three cases of Adam and the other person and the overlaps maybe and just look at the distributions maybe there Yeah clear pattern but we just can't see it because too many combinations of of people Yeah that can overlap I had the same intuition So last last Yeah last Just week seems sort I of think complex start with s your your idea of simplifying starting with something that you can see eh you know without the extra layers of Right Cuz if energy doesn't matter there like I don't think this is true To but study what individual Hmm what To study individual Well Well you the study to the study simplest everybody case but But just simple case get