skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Please list one instance when the modern Greek state did as described.
I haven't followed Greece that closely but this story about Greece hiding its debt to gain entry into the Euro has been mentioned more than once:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.htm...
This was a state in ruins under foreign military occupation, with about half the territory and population of the former German state that had incurred those debts.

OK. So, the Greek government officials who ran up Greece's debt are responsible for that debt. The current government isn't, and in fact the current Greece is in economic ruin courtesy of years of "austerity" imposed forcefully by foreign powers.
At the risk of being a moralizing bore, may I remind everybody that "Germany", "Greece" etc. are not people, and that people are not countries? I am surprised by the national coloring, however faint, of some comments here and there https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9834721. "I am a German" or "Greek here" should have no relevance to the ideas put forth. "Your money" and "your banks" are not really "my money" and "my banks" once I have paid the tax and don't own the bank!

The theory of complex systems reminds us that aggregates can have properties that are not traceable to any individuals themselves. Game theory tells us that incentives and constraints can get so messed up that developments take on an eigendynamic which was nobody's intent nor interest.

Please, be civilized and don't let yourselves be infected by nationalistic passions.

Your moralizing nanny...

(No seriously, I am starting to get concerned.)
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This kind of interface has precedent: http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/experimental/optional/opera...
This guy may be pretty good with data collection but his ability to interpret anything is compromised by ideology. His early academic work was solid with only a bit of political bias but now that he is famous he feels compelled to opine about all sorts of things he barely understands so his politics shine through. This Q&A just confirms this trend.

I hope he realizes that he and other progressive economic pundits (Krugman, Stiglitz) are in part responsible for the disaster that is now unfolding in Greece.
However, the Greeks must realize a compromise consists of a give and take.

OK, how much more would you like them to give? Another 20% of GDP? 30%? 40%? 50%? Since it's apparent that the goal is to squeeze blood from a stone, just how much blood would satisfy you?
De-Obfuscating the Statistics of Mass Shootings
I'd draw a distinction between debts incurred by a democratically elected government and otherwise.

I also think reparations are fundamentally different than loans. Comparing war reparations to loans is blurring the lines to make a political point.
They can still claim some moral high ground in that, were they to go bankrupt today, colonialism was not directly the cause. That's not the case with Germany in the 40s/50s.
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The underlying assumption in the German "NO" to Greek pleas of debt relief is the "moral hazard" of writing off a country's debt just because they cried really hard.

Why don't we talk about the moral hazard of writing off a country's debt after they kill 60 million people?
The blame here, like the GFC, has to lie with the lenders, who are sophisticated investors making very large profits from loans to unsophisticated or (politically) pressured borrowers. The lenders in this case assumed the loans have sovereign risk, but countries have risk too and judgement day has come.
Take your licks, write down the loans so they are repayable and move on. If not then this will likely become a far bigger problem for the world, and the lending institutions.
The stats I can find suggest Greece ran a primary deficit pretty consistently starting in 2002 --- long before the crisis --- in fact, they appear to have run a primary deficit during the boom years that preceded the crisis.
FWIW, unlikely. I specifically remember being asked to count down from 10, going like 8 7 6 ... 5 wait I feel weird and sleepy. That is, my first thought after being woken up was the next number in sequence.

It seems unlikely that would be the case if the time inbetween was spent thinking 'oh my god this hurts so much' rather than just blacked out.
At the risk of being a moralizing bore, may I remind everybody that "Germany", "Greece" etc. are not people, and that people are not countries? I am surprised by the national coloring, however faint, of some comments here and there https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835433. "I am a German" or "Greek here" should have no relevance to the ideas put forth. "Your money" and "your banks" are not really "my money" and "my banks" once I have paid the tax and don't own the bank!

The theory of complex systems reminds us that aggregates can have properties that are not traceable to any individuals themselves. Game theory tells us that incentives and constraints can get so messed up that developments take on an eigendynamic which was nobody's intent nor interest.

Please, be civilized and don't let yourselves be infected by nationalistic passions.

Your moralizing nanny...

(No seriously, I am starting to get concerned.)
Appreciate the feedback. Could you please clarify how it isn't helping (it's too late for me to fix this submission, but it'll help me for future submissions). Thanks.
Who here is a real economist that has the ability for pointed criticism? Share your thoughts, please.
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Sovereign debt is inherently unsecured. It's a credit card for the government, nothing more. The primary motivation for servicing the debt is that it will enable more borrowing. And like people, countries don't pay off their debts for all sorts of reasons...not every default is created equally. At the least, Piketty is being intellectually dishonest. Personally, I think he is really just trying to appeal to the underdog by pointing out this poor analogue.
A deficit isn't necessarily unsustainable over a period of economic growth. If growth and inflation outpace the cost of borrowing, it's worthwhile to borrow. Kind of like the US is doing right now.
Amazing, isn't it? They insist they aren't a taxi company, except when it suits them. What really amazes is the naked and highly public inconsistency. This isn't some subtle thing; it's roughly what you'd expect from a 6 year old who's trapped himself with a lie. Why are people falling all over themselves to give these simpletons billions?
Of course India (or its historical antecedents) have killed millions, though it's been primarily other folks on the subcontinent. I agree with your point otherwise.
> Without going into detail, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Aye.

https://paragonie.com/files/white-papers/DataBreach.png
>on a per dollar basis.

Surely what matters is actual dollars. Delaware has less than a million people living in it. California has almost forty million. So long as CA is contributing a net positive percentage to the federal government, it's very likely that they are contributing more overall to the well being of the nation than Delaware is.
Your sibling posts pick much, much stronger arguments.

"This is not a peace. It is an armistice for twenty years"
Silicon Valley Is Lying to You
If the "spending" of money is not a problem, how did Greece end up with depts in first place? Nobody forced Greece to take them.
I'll put it this way.

World War I: Germany loses, is forced to pay not just debt, but reparations. Huge economic and political instability as a result leads to a new leadership which leads directly to World War II.

World War II: Germany loses, is split up, due to the Marshall plan (in part do to a fear of Communism, so not solely due to compassion), West Germany given millions of dollars to rebuild, a rather thriving democracy and economy is created as a result.

Which of these is the better option?
The Hacker News FAQ at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html asks "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site", and recommends an alternative course of action.
... and it should be added that having infinitely many worlds is maybe not really the simplest explanation of reality.
There's a lot of hyperbole in this post. The graph you link to of debt-to-GDP is actually very similar in China (282), South Korea (286), Australia (274), USA (269), Germany (258), and Canada (247). And for the record, South Korea's is higher than China's according to that graph. China's is more heavily weighted in "non-financial corporate" which is interesting.

And the shanghai stock market is not "close to retracing back to 2000." This graph shows, it's well above that:
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/china-stock-market.pn...

You're assuming both a continued free-fall at the same rates and also that p/e ratios in China mean the same thing as they did for .com companies in 2000 in USA. Any market newbie will tell you that what a "normal" p/e ratio is will differ greatly by sector even within the same economy. China's may be out of whack, but it's not fair to make an arbitrary comparison.

I'm no China apologist, but making predictions of 10-20 years of decline with an authoritative tone is wrong given the facts you presented.
Following your lead: Then let's start by assigning a value to each person killed in WWII and the moral righteousness (or lack thereof) leading to the person's death. Yes quite the humane and reasonable trait in a time of total destruction. Very helpful.

Your post actually prove's the other author's point: Your clear opinion of responsibility is shown and thus it would be clear to me, how you as a winner's negotiator in that time after WWII would have "accounted" that debt.
That's a good point, but the obvious next Google search suggests that Greece's economic growth was unspectacular during the early 00s, and began lagging in '06.
Greek invasion of Turkey in 1919 was pretty ugly although the scale was different.
Think of it like this: when a country needs to 'borrow', they're selling bonds. An investment vehicle. If you buy bad bonds as a typical investor, no one bails you out - you lose your investment. That's how it should have gone for Greece. Their 'investors' should have lost during the crisis, like everyone else, instead the Euro governments bailed them out and created this prolonged mess...
Considering I've seen this said multiple times in Swift post on HN, I have to ask, why do you keep asking? From what I can remember they said It would be there by Fall...its clearly not fall yet, so why the impatience?
Please list one resource which describes the modern Greek state as a 'major economy'.
The Greek economy has shrunk by a quarter over the course of the crisis. Not quite a smoking crater, but not exactly a trifle either, and not incomparable to the impact of a war, I'd say..
I'm sure you can do better than that as a student of economics...
Not only that, but Greece was the country that suffered the second most after WWII (in terms of GDP loss, not human life loss), at least according to this article (point 5)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/05/7...
Right, I guess I wasn't clear, this was a shaded/fat jar, so it had all its dependencies included statically.

I feel like our computing infrastructure has gotten to the point that dynamically linked libraries are no longer a good choice. I think dynamic linking has only caused us problems at work (devs install Node deps on the staging server, forget to tell ops, service crashes when deployed in prod), and the memory/disk/transfer overhead are practically irrelevant at this point. The only remaining reason to have dynamic libs is the idea that they can be updated without help from upstream, but that really only works if the software is compatible with the latest libraries, which isn't always true.

Supposedly ProGuard has some cross-module dead code elimination for JARs, but I haven't tried it: http://proguard.sourceforge.net/
On a recent American Airlines flight, a 30 minute pass cost me $10. On a not so recent AA flight, an all day pass cost me $35. Depending on the cost differential in a JB ticket, it might be worth it.

Sidenote - the prices on their pricing page [0] are significantly different than what I paid which makes me think the airlines are getting a significant enough cut to keep the status quo.

[0] - http://www.gogoair.com/gogo/listAllProducts.do
Wouldn't that be a pyramid scheme? A ponzi scheme is fine as long as everyone doesn't want their principal back at once.
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So I've been vaguely following the Greece and Puerto Rico situations (the Greece situation is causing me to put some trading strategies on hold), but there is something I don't understand about it. How come so many left wing advocates (Piketty, Krugman, etc) are coming out advocating for Greek bailouts?
> Do people blame Germany for France's greed? I mean it is pretty evident that the growth of Nazis in Germany came directly from what the Allies levied on Germany.

It's also pretty evident that the rise of Syriza and Golden Dawn in Greece came directly from what the EU levied on the Greek people.
I feel sorry for the Greek people, but I personally favour throwing them out of the Eurozone if they default on the debt.

It will be a very dangerous signal to send that you can borrow money, and not pay it back without any retribution. This is particularly important since more countries are going in the same direction as Greece (I think Spain and Puerto Rico are close, but I might be wrong).

Besides that, it also hurts the confidence towards the Eurozone if the countries in it can behave this way.

Also, am I the only one that finds it weird that they wait until after the deadline, to vote on whether or not to pay the debt back?
I have no business and have three business credit cards. What's your point?
"A foreigner". Why do you care where they were born? If where someone was born is so important to you, why not extend it down to the state level and only let people buy in the state in which they are issued papers from?

This is indeed thinly veiled nationalism/racism.

In a properly functioning society, you should have no real idea how the domestic money was obtained, either. It's none of your business as a seller.
If what she claims is true, it must take some rather large amounts of wherewithal to continue in this industry, for which I certainly applaud her. It's also rather hard to imagine or contend the manner in which many in our industry behave; I certainly know that if my girlfriend or sister had been treated like this, I'd certainly feel rather violently inclined (as human nature often leads one to be) to end that behavior. You know, while I certainly don't always agree with the spirit in which we try and enforce things like diversity and often think that victim-hood is taken a little too far, it's perhaps harder to understand the filthy, trashy and rather base individuals that would treat Ms. Frazelle in this manner. It doesn't give me a lot of hope sometimes for my gender or for our culture as a whole; my thoughts go out to Ms. Frazelle that things get better for her.
But if you just hit the docs as needed, you will automatically be doing spaced repitition on anything that isn't a one-off need.
Of course I can. But I don't need to.

If someone says the sky is green with no justification or explanation, do I need to write a paragraph about why it's not green?
> I'd draw a distinction between debts incurred by a democratically elected government and otherwise.

I think that's a good point in principle, but remember that the Greece's poor suffer the most. Drive through a poor neighorhood in town and consider how much influence the residents have over national economic policy.
In the case of both Japan and China, most of their debt is held internally.

That's why Japan is debasing the Yen, instead of performing a traditional default. They're unable to afford their debt, but if they just outright default, that will hammer their economy in one big hit - the creditors are the Japanese people. The Yen debasement hits them as well, and reduces the real value of the debt, but the premise is it's a gradual process they can adjust to over time (and the politicians get to lie about what's happening, another reason they all universally prefer inflationary schemes).
Shipped with fear
Sadly don't think it's stopped anyonw. Friend told me it's 50,000/person at any one time, but given the amount of money I've seen being being spent, I doubt that is stopping anyone.

Going to dig into if there are any loopholes for this. I think it's fascinating how so many people in China suddenly became self-made millionaires/billionaires + can spend that money so extravagantly in the US without much consequence.

There was a classmate from China last semester who came to class every day in a new custom sports car. Mondays was Lambourghinis, Tuesdays was R8, Wednesday was McLauren, Thursday was wrapped Panamera turbo, etc. And this kind of spending/demographic is pretty noticeable in Boston/Allston.
Well, as part of their debt relief, Germany got a new government. Is that what Greece wants?
> The money supply has to reflect that there's always more of everything. This means inflation. And it's not a bad thing.

Wait, what?! You don't understand inflation. If there was always "more of everything", the result would be deflation. More food -> food costs less. More cars -> cars cost less. More apartments -> apartments cost less. Economics 101.
That ingores the impact on the poor and pensioners of Greece. Just let them starve?
That's not a problem for as long as you can print money (and are willing to suffer from high inflation).
>I think there should be a distinction between a country that kills and tortures millions and one that does not. So, why again should we forgive the debts of those responsible for killing and torturing millions, but not those of a country who has done nothing comparable?

Because the Treaty of Versailles was tried the first time, to penalize Germany with onerous debts for starting WW1, and WW2 was the direct result. After WW2, the Allied occupiers weren't thinking, "How can we penalize Germany?", they were thinking, "How can we prevent another damned war!?".

Unfortunately, this time people are still thinking, "How can we penalize Greece?", as if that will help the EU at all in the future.
This is a super important point. One that needs to come into the debate in Germany more.

Greece may have been run by a ridiculously irresponsible government (and electorate), but it was the troika (Germany, mostly) put the fallout on the German (and EU) public's tab. That was and is a debt guaranteed to go bad.
I'll just leave this here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/29/where-did-the-g...
The debt forgiveness of Germany post-WWII shouldn't just be seen as altruism. The Soviet Bear was seen as a major threat by the Allies, and having a healthy buffer state was a significant factor in making policy around West German finances.

If Greece was a buffer state against some monstrously powerful ideological opponent, you can bet that we'd be seeing considerably different politicking going on.
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To the best of my knowledge, they haven't repaid. Their access to capital markets is very inconvenient right now -- but they haven't repaid.
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http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/gdp

Greece's GDP nearly tripled from 2000 to 2008. Their debt to GDP was comparable to other European nations until 2008 (105% of GDP).
Yes. I should have added, it's not that I don't have sympathy for Greece and how their debt has been structured. I also don't think Europe should let them fall. It's also not that I don't think Piketty is correct in some of his solutions (though I have differences of opinion with some of them), I just found his reasoning to be wrongheaded and somehow "dumb." At least for someone who is supposed to be a great world economist. (My own take away should be "Don't believe the hype.")
Good point. Still, I would prefer a coherent dialogue instead. I feel like debunking uninformed objections gives those objections more recognition then they deserve. I wish for smarter or at least less stale questions.
I'm not saying the interface is externally bad. The danger and reasoning here is that the implementation could be made bad. STL functions can tolerate that risk, and they don't have the luxury of knowing the object's a std::string on an uncritical path, not some graph node with zillions of back-pointers. (Edit: I think their interface also avoids copying when dealing with non-movable types.)
They wouldn't starve. Many countries have survived a default without people starving. Presumably, in the case of a Greek default, the government would be using the money to pay pensioners and give welfare instead of paying bond-holders...
> it doesn't matter whose fault it is. If Greece stops paying its creditors and stops taking loans, Germans will lose out. It's actually in Germany's best interest to forgive some of the debt, and have Greece pay the rest.

Absolutely. It's bizarre that in a country with bankruptcy laws (which Germany must have), they argue that it's 'immoral' for Greece to have some debt relief.

> When the European and world economy went down, it dragged Greece with them.

Remember who started the Great Recession (the U.S.). The Greeks probably had less to do with it than most nations.
I hope I'm alive to see the day we meet extraterrestrials.
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I think it depends on the company. For a tech-focused company where a breach is a slap in the face of their core competencies, sure. For a megacorp that sees IT as a loss center, it's harder to believe.
You have to take advantage of that business traveler who is expensing everything has "has to have internet access for work."
You're forgetting that, as part of more 'everything', that also means more consumers, and more money printed...
I was in shock reading this too. It's possible that the extraterrestrials read that stuff, determine our intelligence to be extremely low, and not bother with us again.

Or they'll send Andromeda earlier. ;)
Pikkety's case is essentially that debt is not sacrosanct, and that treating it as you are is counterproductive.

Sometimes the creditor must share some of the pain, in order to save (even himself) more pain down the line.
Sorry, I misread what you were saying. I agree.
That isn't really any better, is it?
No one's questioning that Greece's poor will be hit the hardest. But neither does it help them to blur the meanings of reparations and debt for the sake of creating a scape-goat.