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Thanks Jacques - hopefully this is much more readable now.
> Jeez, I feel like I'm talking to a wall here.

Sorry for being dense, it's early :)

> I'm arguing that the reason that it has so many votes could be because his name is in the title.

Yes, I got that, it's just that because it is also in the domain name in this case I'd expect it to be just as high right now if the name had not been in the title.

> I bet if you showed 200 people the article, and told 100 of them Bram wrote it, then the 100 who knew would score the article higher. Is that a good thing?

No, it isn't. But that would mean that you'd also have to drop the domain name from behind the title.

Personally I don't mind, it helps me to avoid some of the more overexposed sites here.
Maybe that isn't self-evident because the history is so far back. 100 years ago, 99.9% of starters didn't have a degree. (And they didn't start life $80K in debt either.)

But I'd argue that college isn't about learning a trade, it's about getting more out of living life... and being part of your culture. So once the business is old enough to spare a few hours a day, college is a great idea.

I learned today that physicist Harold Fletcher (Bell Labs) helped get stereo recording off the ground back in the early 30s (with Stokowski; they made over a hundred recordings ... on dual-tracked vinyl). Harold wasn't a narrow formalist; he understood that a rich culture is one worth preserving.
I really like the tone of your proposal, and I'd take you up on it, except I'm not really a "software as a service" type of programmer. ruby, python, css, rails, and stuff like that are not my forte. I tend to deal more with lower-level unixy technologies: TCP/IP, shell scripting, C++, servers, multi-threading, and so on. If somebody has the same general idea but needs my type of programmer, I'd love to hear from such a person.

(semi-off-topic: pg seems to frown on job postings here by non-yc companies. Not sure if this post qualifies as that. If this isn't welcome on the front page, I really wish there was some part of news.yc where this type of thing could go.)
I thought the ultimate power in life is to pose in a bulletproof vest on the cover of seventeen magazine. Now that was badass. He showed those teenaged girls who's boss.
Funny how it is always "business guy looking for a coder" but never "coder looking for a business guy".

Clearly this is due to business people being more aware of their limitations than coders are. ;-)
I don't mind the domain name... it's not nearly the size of the title, and it's not the very first words I see for any particular post. I expect it has less effect, and this article would have less votes if that's the only thing that identified the writer.

The same is true for comments... the author is included, but the username isn't given the same weight as the comment itself. And I think that's a good thing... we should keep it that way for comments and for articles.

To be fair, I also use the domain somewhat, though I use it more on Reddit to avoid sites like Alternet. The domain helps me avoid sites, but I don't think it has as much effect in helping me affirm sites.
That's an interesting take on it. VNC, maybe, especially if it's sold by using screen shots that show the Apple desktop. Web browser / webview, even Apple probably wouldn't push it that far, although when you're hiring low wage workers to review essentially the entire potential universe of content, there are bound to be some overzealous interpretations.
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People love to criticize Apple and their "mismanagement" of their business.

I would like to see anyone do it better than Apple has. The old cliche applies: It's very easy to criticize. Not so easy to do what they have done.
I must say this is a lot more intriguing and value-based than most of the other:

1) I'm an idea guy.
2) I need a code monkey to clone ___.
3) Profit.

Thanks for being upfront and geninue (imo).

I would certainly entertain the idea of working with you. I'm a 37signals kinda guy and roll with tha saas model. We can definitely get a feel for one another, but have to be honest and say, while I am not opposed to moving to Japan, its one of the super-huge obstacles that would make this actually working out quite a long shot, since what if we make it all the way to that point, it doesn't work out down the line, and I am out on my ass in Japan?? Hey wait ... that actually sounds really damned fun - Email is on the way!

P.S. Been seriously working on a pretty solid idea of my own, it should work just as well in Japan.. but I guess that's what the email is for!
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these symbolic raised hands you use in your design signal 'stop' or 'wait' to me. Maybe change them to something more descriptive.
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> pg seems to frown on job postings here by non-yc companies.

Is that true ? I've seen quite a few of these 'looking for co-founder' posts and never heard anything negative about it.

And I would find that a serious point against Paul if it were true but since I can't recall a single instance of that do you have something to back that up with ?
For animated models you need the psk/psa exporter, on the same page:

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Technically, sharecropping is better. In Sharecropping, the landowners share risk with the sharecropper.
Probably explains why a large number of coder only startups fail due to lack of customers...
Ask PG: I see you've switched HN over to mixpanel, how does it work out so far ?
Before mixpanel HN used google analytics for their stats, I just spotted the 'mixpanel' button at the bottom of the page, how does it work out so far ?

Are the reports what you expect of them ? Are the numbers in line with what you got reported out of google analytics (I find they're off by quite a bit).
> The programming I do does not require advanced CS
> knowledge, even though it never hurts to know them.

It's more than not hurting to know them. Although you may not ever use the knowledge directly, knowing these things affects your thinking in a myriad of subtle ways.

My degrees in mathematics appear pretty much useless on the surface, and rarely if ever get used directly. But when I think about business, algorithms, implementation, planning, etc., I find myself explaining things with words in my head such as "the topology" or "the metric" or "continuous" or "min-max". I then usually have to expand these to explain what I mean, and I've found yet again that the landscape in my head, put there by my studies, is helping me think things through in a way that others find difficult.

You won't need your degree, but studying this stuff (if it's a good school and you study it "properly") will have long-term intangible benefits.

The question is whether they will out-weigh the additional direct experience of working, not studying. Without knowing you I can't say, but I would tend towards learning this stuff.
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The App Store is evolving constantly, as far as I can tell. It's improving over time, and not just in small ways. They have made huge improvements. But, as with any evolving ecosystem, it will always be broken. This is not strictly a bad thing; it's just the nature of evolving systems that they are always finding new states of equilibrium.

What they are doing is not easy. And the results so far are amazing. There is the odd horror story, but overall it's pretty good, and getting better.

Personally I would prefer an open system. But for a closed system they are doing it pretty well.
Find and spend time with people who know more than you. You will know different things, and you might be clever, but you need to be in an audience that drags you up, and keeps you honest.

There are things I'm really, really good at, and I know that because I can do them and others - who I respect and admire - can't. There are other things that I'm pretty poor at, and I spend time with people, learning from them and trying to improve. They tolerate me because I try to have the right attitude, and I give freely of my time and knowledge. In return, I receive their time and knowledge, and we all benefit.

One side note: One's individual and personal "worth" is not derived from skills or knowledge. Use comparisons to assess knowledge and ability, but not your worth.
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The programmer creates a spark. The designer creates a lantern. The businessperson creates a lighthouse.
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jacques, you are obviously the exact type of person who should be hanging around here, but you are really too quick to get bent out of shape over unimportant things. just a couple of minutes ago i read a comment from somebody who described dealing with you as 'talking to a brick wall.'

there have been more 'help wanted' ads killed here than i can count. i'm not going to back to find any now, because of your tone. the ones phrased more as 'looking for cofounder' tend not to get killed, but that seems a pretty minor distinction.
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Nice one. Never thought of it this way.
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You need to so a simple calculation. Is the increased productivity/good will you will get by allowing developers to pick worth more then enforcing a heterogeneous environment and loosing some productivity.

There are nearly always ways to work around compatibility differences. Sure you need word to talk to banks/accountants but most developers will be more then happy to work within a wiki. They have no need for Office (although sometimes Excel is worth having as a developer but open office will suffice for that)

The cost of finding these alternative routes is minimal especially if you find good developers who will no doubt have experience in this sort of thing. In fact you might create a more nimble work space if developers are used to accommodating others and are more open to change.

Good luck and be sure to let us all know how it goes :)
What to you is 'unimportant' matters a great deal to me.

If PG would limit access to the forum or kill of posts that would get people connected or employed I'd be out of here in a heartbeat.

I find the suggestion that PG would 'frown' at that a very strong statement against him, and from what I've seen so far I would expect the opposite. That's why I asked for some proof of that sort of behaviour, it is completely contrary to what I would expect. That's a simple follow up question, trust me, when I get bent out of shape you'll know about it.

If there have been more 'help wanted' ads here killed (by PG) than you can count that would diminish not only my view of Paul Graham but also of Y-Combinator as a whole.

What other editors do is not my concern here, PG was singled out specifically.
I get the impression this was written more to stroke a nerd audience than to inform a nerd-SO audience. :)
Um, You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick here. Jacques is not complaining about "help wanted" ads. Further, he doesn't seem to me to be "bent out of shape" at all.

Perhaps your reading of his comment, and the quote within it of the previous comment, is not the same as mine, but your comment seems to be a complete non-sequitur.

I would suggest that it's all a misunderstanding, and that you both consider that there is always the scope for misunderstanding, and don't try to thrash out any single instance.

I will comment no further - I hope this exchange is not prolonged.
What makes you particularly qualified at sales and marketing other than not being a "tech guy"?
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Got data to back that up?

I'd personally rather invest in a coder only startup than a business only startup.
A rule of thumb I have read somewhere is to put it into some savings vehicle that you can't touch for six months and use that time to think about what to do with it so it doesn't get blown on the first impulse.
I wouldn't say without any reliability. I know that my "dynamic" IP stays the same for months at a time, if I don't interfere.
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Maybe the features he highlighted are as important to some people as the features you highlight.
Maybe a bunch of the smaller app developers need to get together and form a large umbrella organization (that they are all share holders in) to get the better treatment.
I've heard from several Googlers that false positives are orders of magnitude worse than false negatives. In reality, I think it's more clear-cut - there are those developers who know all about tries, algorithms, parsers, GC strategies, unit testing, OS level details, networking, etc., and those developers who know how to program in Blub for Blub libraries. For most positions, Google wants the former.
It's called a union.
Just to clarify: "As we get busier and as we acquire customers, I'd be hiring more developers and support staff, most likely working under you."

You mean that the developers and support staff would be working your co-founder, right? Not that you would be working under this person? I read it the wrong way the first time.
I really liked reading this. I was only vaguely aware of this guy before seeing this article and the other one posted a while ago that wallflower has linked to. I must say, I find him very impressive.

What interested me most about these two articles though was his ability to articulate his thoughts so well. I've noticed that it's frequently the case that successful people are very good at clearly saying whatever it is they want to say. This is a trait I'm trying to develop myself.
Look at the crunchbase deadpool. How many of those companies failed because of technical failure and how many failed due to business failure ?

It's pretty much impossible to find strong data either way on "coder-only" startups or "business-only" startup, because there's no good data set. But it's not hard to see you need both competence in software and in business to execute successfully.

Most people on HN seem to suffer from selection bias, they mostly hang-around communities which are coder focused so they don't see many business-founder start-ups so assume they don't work.
But, as with any evolving ecosystem, it will always be broken. This is not strictly a bad thing; it's just the nature of evolving systems that they are always finding new states of equilibrium

So evolving systems can never be broken or bad? And even though the AppStore is not an ecosystem but rather a hierarchical social system, it should be mentioned that the equilibrium state of some ecosystems is death :-)
2 things:

1. Don't build the 100 features all the competition has, build the 1 feature that's fundamentally different from how they do things.

2. Measure usage
This was published at Programming Language Design and Implementation (PLDI) in 2005. PLDI is one of the most respected conferences among compiler folks.
i think 99% of the deadpool companies were just bad ideas, like hunch, or oneriot (too soon?), but to even get up to bat, you have to have both business and coding skills.
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Awesome, awesome feedback -- thanks!

Now, about your lawyer friend, is he interested in outsourcing? :)
So, your real answer to 'got data to back that up' was 'no'.

I've seen coders grow in to a business role and be confident, but I've never seen a business guy grow in to a coder role and be confident.

If I had to bet on two startups, one with just coders and one with just business guys I'd bet on the coders.

Coders tend to be problem solvers, they see business issues as problems to solve (and for the most part they are), business types tend to think in terms of how to get other people to do the work for them, when left to their own devices it usually doesn't go very far.

The 'ideal' startup in my view is 1 business guy for every 5 to 10 hands on types, instead of the usual, the exact opposite.

I'm pretty sure I'm biased though :)
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In the general case yes. But this title, without the author, is more or less the same as at least 10 articles I've already read. When everybody is chipping in their opinion, "X's opinion on Y" is a better way of mentally separating them than "Yet another opinion on Y".

A good title should:
- Be easily identified as different from others of similar topic (mine)
- Non-name-dropping (yours)
- Non-editorial (by board convention)

By (2) the original title is bad and by (1) just dropping the name is no good. Is there a title that works for all three rules?
It's by Hans Boehm. He can publish his papers on the National Enquirer tabloid and it wouldn't lose an iota in credibility.
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Something that has been helpful for me: I try to separate the skills/knowledge from my ego.

I went through a period where I was something of a "star" on a few small email lists and was constantly heaped with public praise. I was uncomfortable with that but was told I had "poor self esteem" and these kind, loving folks were going to assist me in getting over it. Of course, the more some folks sang my praises, the more others felt compelled to kick the living crap out of me and try to bring me down a notch or twelve. Having concluded that my aversion to public praise is rooted in wisdom, not neurosis, I have since worked hard on learning to present good information that stands on its own merits while simultaneously deflecting public praise since it actually undermines my efforts to put out good info by putting too much of the focus on me and my ego. In spite of still putting forth controversial ideas, I get beat up less these days. With getting beat up less, I have less need to have folks telling me I'm wonderful because I don't have all those psychic wounds to salve.

I suspect one reason very competent people underestimate their abilities is because they tend to attract lots of criticism. In other words, they are a threat to the pecking order and people make huge deals out of any tiny mistake they make (basically a desperate attempt to say "you're not All That, dammit!"). The approach I have worked out helps get around that issue. I am perfectly willing to admit that I make mistakes and because I do not let people paint me into a corner and make this all about me and my ego, I get a lot less of that type of negative feedback than I used to. (It still happens, but it's not socially and emotionally crippling anymore.) This helps remove negative social bias (hostility) from my attempts to self-assess. That has had a net positive impact on my confidence and self-assessment.
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You mean a fad? fab = fabrication? That doesn't make sense to me.
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You'd be making a copy just by calling the function, another by displaying it. Ephemeral copies are legio in software and though people have tried I don't think anyone has ruled that those copies are infringing. It's like saying that when you play a CD you are making a copy into the air pressure pattern and thus playing a CD would be infringement.
I'm saying there's no data either way. How would you suggest even obtaining a reasonable unbiased selection of companies to test the hypothesis ?

It's very hard to avoid selection bias, if for example you took a sampling of companies that received series A funding and were reported on crunchbase, you'd be missing a huge selection of companies that failed to make it that far (which could be because they lacked the business expertise to get financing, or could be because they lacked the execution capabilities on the technical side).

Not to mention crunchbase overwhelming focuses on consumer startups rather than b2b startups, which naturally introduces more bias.

Almost every business in the world is about problem solving, only a very small minority of them are technical, it's ludicrous to suggest that "business types" aren't good at problem solving.
You really think EA has to put up with this crap?

that was kind of my point. ea knows very well what other developers are going through, but until they get an app rejected, they're not going to do anything about it. i was suggesting that these top developers stand up and use their pull to convince apple to change on behalf of all iphone developers.
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