Given how HN leans due to the vast majority of members being young left-leaning idealists with little real life experience in enough cultures and environments to have a realistic world view this isn't bound to be a popular post. So be it.

The human condition is such that most people devolve into pretty useless individuals once all is provided for them with no effort. Even if what is provided is not "all" this usually has negative effects. We do best when we EARN what we have. We become better people when we have to devote time, effort and treasure to achive what we want. Various forms of subsidizing life only succeed at destroying people, communities and futures.

You want a country with a culture hell-bent to innovate, struggle, work hard and compete. That country will prosper and eat everyone else alive. In the US we have generations of people on the dole that have, as a result, utterly destroyed everything from individuals to cities.

While I don't have any data I'd be willing to bet that recipients of huge ridiculous unearned government and union pensions are some of the most selfish people out there, just living their "no worries" life without a care in the world and without doing a thing to help others.

Then you have people like me. I've had two huge business failures. One resulted in a total business and personal not-a-dime-to-my-name bankrupcy. I come from an immigrant entrepreneurial family. I licked my wounds and got back to work each and every time. And did well every time because I worked my ass off while everyone else was watching TV.

Because I understood failure and struggle so well I have always gone out of my way to help those struggling. As an example, I have been working with this guy I met at three meetups here in Los Angeles for a year. He is basically homeless and sleeps at friend's homes while doing gigs here and there for money. I am not giving him a dime. I am teaching him how to start a business. We've been at it for a year. He could barely send an email when we started. Today, I fully expect him to start making $5K a month by June and up from there.

Maybe what we need is safety nets for the sick and old without any family/social (church, friends) backup. The rest get nothing could qualify for something like welfare for a very limited time and only to pay for food, a place to live and education. No iphones, no satellite TV, no playstations. You have to make it such that you turn on the innate drive to problem-solve and improve your situation that exists in every single able-bodied and able-minded individual. Nobody is suggesting throwing grandma off a cliff or not helping those who simply cannot do for themselves due to illness or dire situations. Charity is important. At the same time, organizations like churches get tax free status for a reason. They ought to help people rather than build massive empires (anyone who's been to Texas knows what I mean).

And, yes, businesses, entrepreneurs, might get some kind of a tax incentive to help and mentor others. I don't have any specific ideas to put forth. I know this can be abused to a ridiculous extent. I also happen to know that most tax money that goes to government is often wasted in absolutely grotesque ways. Imagine if we paid someone a couple of million dollars to build the Obamacare website properly the first time around and used the billion (or whatever, the exact number is irrelevant) to launch a massive startup funding program or some other worthy cause. Imagine if the 60 to 100 billion dollars California is going to absolutely burn building a high speed train nobody is going to use and, again, launched an entrepreneurial orgy. No, there's a lot that can be done to produce positive results before we make slaves out of people, even a little bit.