> My point was that you generalised your experience with one product to all things ever produced by either company. Generalisations are usually wrong.

Then it's a good thing I didn't do that. I've used a number of products from both company, ranging in price from free to suites which come with 6 figure annual support contracts.

> You claimed none of their products ever showed any care about usability. Yet, at last check, they all had fairly extensive documentation, accessibility work done to them, and clearly do many things that consider the user experience.

Allow me to quote what I actually said:

> both Sun and Oracle have no cultural tradition of taking toolchain usability seriously

That's not saying that they don't do things like, say, accessibility as required to get government contracts. What I was talking about is that all of the products seemed to assume that their product was so compelling that we would be willing to invest considerable resources doing the kind of support which other vendors do as part of their job.

At multiple employers, having spent 6-8 figures on Oracle database or enterprise business applications, we used to get things like critical security updates delivered as a ZIP file with instructions for where to copy files and what permissions to set them. Sure, it's not that hard to roll a pkg, rpm, etc. but why should every customer need to do that?

One of Oracle's big enterprise apps broke when IE8 was released because the latest version still shipped a 5+ year-old JavaScript library which performed some illegal DOM operations which were now validated even in IE7 compatibility mode. When I called support, they arrogantly told me that they don't test Microsoft's software for them and would test after it was released (which was weeks in the past at this point). About a week later, a manager called me asking for a copy of the patch which I had mentioned developing so they could distribute it to other customers who had the same problem.

During the year I spent supporting that mess, our half-million-year contract didn't once get a support engineer who fixed a problem, or could even troubleshoot it without my hand-holding them through reading the error messages and eventually entering a ticket. At every point the answer was to install the latest version or reinstall what we already had, which was a long manual process with tons of hand redundant configuration in many places (many daemons on many servers). Having documentation telling you to open an XML file here and add certain blocks of text with values matching this plist over there is extensive but is not usable.

Sun wasn't as bad but they weren't well organized. Brand new V40z servers arrive with Solaris 10. The updater rendered them unbootable. Support says to try the install again, which produces the same result. Calling our sales guy says this is a known problem and they can have a systems engineer help walk us through patching a bunch of stuff by hand so the updater won't break it – great, they're supporting us but … who's paying us for the hours spent on something which would literally take 5 minutes for their QA team to reproduce? If we had thousands of them and a strong case for Solaris we might have been able to justify the time investment but it took 20 minutes to have the systems in production running Debian Linux and we spent less time on OS support over the life of hardware than trying to get a core feature to work once.