> Bro, you are looking at a website and trying to intuit the motivations of developers based on marketing materials? And using words like "definitely" as if you have intuited their motivations with great certainty? Seriously?

Well yes. Because if a website is marketed at teachers then it's hard to argue that some of these projects aren't marketed at teachers.

I don't understand why you find that such a controversial point to make.

> I've met mres, talked to him 1 on 1, and that guy is definitely wants to empower curious students. He probably isn't opposed to making teachers' lives easier, but if you talk to him about what he's trying to do, what he's excited about, that's clearly not it.

You've misunderstood me. I'm not saying these tools don't benefit students as well nor that the developers of these languages don't also have students in mind. Just that it's the teachers who introduce students to them rather than students who seek them out.

Most of the time, if a student already knows enough about computers to understand the concept of a programming language, it's because they want to do something useful with it rather than just playing. And then they'll likely have already discovered proper languages like Javascript or Python. Or maybe even something more low-level.

Teaching languages are usually picked up by students only after someone (namely an educator or parent) has introduced that student to them.

For example, you don't decide you want to build a robot, or website, or computer game, or whatever and then find training material to build it in some random teaching language. Just in the same way how you wouldn't find any training material online for doing it in COBOL or FORTRAN. All the material online will be focused on established general-purpose languages.

So students don't discover learner languages just by accident. They generally discover them through educators or parents.

> I'm so tired of talking to confidently incorrect people on this website. It is okay to not know things. It is okay to not have an opinion. When you form uninformed opinions and then smear them all over the internet, you're doing harm. Stop. You don't have to say every thought that comes into your head, and you should not.

I've worked with several teachers to set programming curriculums at a few schools. I got this exposure because my wife is a teacher, as is most of her family. But the end result is I know quite a bit about how programming is taught in schools and which programming languages are picked because I've been the one to define that. And I don't get good at defining this without understanding what kids already know and what they want to learn.

That all said, I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on this topic. But I certainly have a great deal more insight than you think (this is a great lesson in who you shouldn't make assumptions about other people).

> Like, you just accused a whole team of people who has poured countless hours into something they hope will help students of not caring about students. How does that not bother you?

Good grief, where did I say the developers of these tools don't care about students?

You moan about other people HN and yet you're the one making low-quality comments here.