skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
This thing underlines how nvidia is in trouble; it proves (unless Deepseek used servers outside of china) that banning nvidia from china does not give them any kind of advantage anymore.
Although desktop GPU plane counts are much more limited, it's not as restricted as you're portraying. Here's the AMD SoC in the Steam Deck, for example: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/gamescope/blob/master/src/d...

Even though it's only 3 planes, they are relatively feature-rich still. In a typical desktop UI that would indeed be primary, cursor, and video planes. But if the system cursor is hidden, such as in a game, that frees up a plane that can be used for something else - such as the aforementioned game.
An African horse or a European horse?
Desktop mode in mobile seems to work fine.
Maybe he wanted to say that "We won't give billions of dollars to people I don't like, but instead will give trillions of dollars to people I like".

Who knows? I'm not from US, so it might be an absurd interpretation of what he said.
> a successful medical surgeon won’t offer much assertion about NVIDIA.

You haven't meet many surgeons have you? When I was working in medical imaging, the technicians all said we (the programmers) were almost as bad as the surgeons.
Is Ollama related to the llama models?
GroqCloud Makes DeepSeek R1 Distill Llama 70B Available
And a pile of "servers, racks, networking, power, cooling, and a building to house it all in" doesn't cost 10-20x more than the GPUs.

If that were the case, Cooler Master would be the trillion dollar company, lmao.
What garmin is this? My Epix (just a Fenix 7 with a fancy screen) seems to hit GPS near instantly, and you can disable the touchscreen. AFAIK it’s only the very basic ones / fashion smartwatches that are touch only (or touch and one or two buttons)
And that's why we'll never solve any meaningful societal issues.

If you can use less energy, or water, or plastic, or time, just do it. Who the hell cares what everyone else chooses to do?
> This is the technique that developers used to build Aurora, not Aurora the end-product.

It's what I meant. But I am behaving like an LLM and economizing on tokens... :-)
I think it is as your engaging which means you'll be more likely to listen to statistics next time they're presented to you with a "non immediately obvious" outcome.

If it were fruitless you wouldn't have engaged from an aggressive stance and I wouldn't be telling you why your wrong. Cognitive dissodence does hurt when it breaks but it's all for the better :)
Layman here — but I am hopeful for 1.58 bit plus custom silicon to be the Holy Grail. I suppose I am setting high expectations on Apple to integrate said in their next "A" chip.

Wishful thinking.
Maybe is related to all the people buying GPUs for AI?
IMHO o1 it’s still comparable to a lot better for accomplishing actual stuff than DeepSeek. At least for my use cases.

Of course cost is incomparably higher since plus has a very low limit. Which of course is a huge deal.
Images Show China Building Huge Fusion Research Facility, Analysts Say
Also for some philosophical stuff DeepSeek just won't do it. I'm working on an essay about spirituality and sometimes it just responds that it doesn't know how to work on those types of problems and we should do something fun like math or games, claud tends to reply with something more like "I have to be honest with you, reincarnation is not real" and ChatGPT doesn't seem to care about that kinda thing at all.
Yep. And I think it's not only olympics, but the whole sportentainment industry.

I used to watch quite a bit of sports. Olympics set, F1, basketball, football, cycling... Now I don't give a damn neither about plays nor results. The only excerpt from Paris olympics I saw was some politicised BS from opening or closing ceremony.

The whole thing seems to be about money and advertising. Sports themselves seem to be getting re-made for looks-nice-on-TV and people who just want some noise in background and ain't actually interested in a given sports mechanics. I'll better watch some podcast on youtube explaining nooks and crannies of some sport than broadcast of an event.
My coworker was having coffee and using his work laptop at an outdoor coffeeshop in Mountain View, CA. Someone on a bike rode by and attempted grab his phone and bike off with it.

The attempted thief didn't succeed in taking the phone, but did knock the laptop onto the ground, damaging it.
You’re being serious? Every meeting?? Daily stand-up? Quick sync on the teams message you just sent me?
What about Linux namespaces makes you think it's not running on bare metal? Maybe you are thinking of versions of docker that introduce a Linux hyper visor like macos?
See https://www.nextplatform.com/2023/05/01/just-how-big-are-nvi...

They estimated $200k for a single NVIDIA GPU-based CPU complete with RAM and networking. That's where my number came from. (RAM and especially very-high-speed networking is very expensive at these scales.)
Introducing ChatGPT Gov
I already am. I'm not concerned about a 0.001% increase of my footprint. There are bigger fish to fry. This is fear mongering.
Tell your company they need a pricing page.
>niece

They are first cousins (once removed).
They may exist, but the real expertise is mostly kept non-public. Regarding the Ukraine war, both pro-Russian and pro-American public pundits never mentioned economic and real strategic issues apart from NATO membership for almost 2.5 years.

Then Lindsey Graham outright mentioned the mineral wealth and it became a topic, though not a prominent one.

Access to the Caspian Sea via the Volga-Don canal and the Sea of Azov is never mentioned. Even though there are age old Rand corporation papers that demand more US influence in that region.

The best public pundits get personalities and some of the political history correct (and are entertaining), but it is always a game of omission on both sides.
It makes sense to me -- illegitimately gained evidence is inadmissible. What would you do differently, and why do you think it would work better?
There are a lot of folks lining up to use a smart model. This takes tokens. I’m not convinced nvidia is blown up by this news at all. The trade has become less crowded, that is true.
Then this comes back to size of the network. HN for example is small enough that we have just a few moderators here and it works.

But once the network grows to a large size it requires a lot of moderators and you start running into problems of moderation quality over large groups of people.

This is a difficult and unsolved problem.
That's the best case. With the state of ads these days you're lucky if an ad doesn't drop some malware on you
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=+find+the+meaning+of+a+joke+r...

Second result. The first is this post.
I think they “own” 49% of OpenAI’s net income until a certain very high amount. Not a share of the actual company.
Polymarket Paradox
IPv4 or IPv6?
The performance advantage comes from doing 1/32 of the floating point operations compared to a dense layer with the same number of parameters.
if things become too efficient then you can use commodity compute and don't need GPUs at all. I'm not sure why you would think breakthroughs in efficiency would be good for nvidia. eventually a regular mac or PC will be able to do what you need a H100 to do now. that won't be good for nvidia.
Inference was already cheapish - businesses already can run gpt-like models by themselves. NVIDIA sales are not driven by inference spending, but training spend.
While sure, maybe now people spend more on inference, NVIDIA was not an investment based money on selling GPUs for inference, because it requires so much fewer resources.

Also, inference is easier to get disrupted in just because of how it works.

All told, this makes it a much less likely play.

Finally, the assumption that it goes up assumes people want on-prem infrastructure for this (in your case). Maybe true, maybe not.

Overall, going from being a "sure" thing selling 200m worth of clusters to random companies hand over fist to not necessarily being able to do that is definitely "bad'.

There are other common claims about why it will increase demand, and they rely on different assumptions (that you won't hit a good enough point quickly, etc)
They don’t have the navy for it. They’re also bordered by the First Island Chain, a string of countries they have been pissing off for a thousand years.
We used "Unblocked" on our documentation + slack. It's pretty neat.
It seems pretty obvious to me that this makes it much harder for people with severe disabilities to get hired in the first place, especially for progressive degenerative diseases.

If I'm a company that is expanding at the edge of my capability, I'm not going to hire anyone with any "need for protection" that I'm able to suss out during the application or interview process because if I need to reduce staff I'm stuck with them whether they're the best or not.
That only works until it's good enough that nobody cares about the difference.
Ok, but why should I even care about what was on this hypothetical blackboard? Do you have any real world examples with business or technical significance where this "cope with it, somehow" approach to mutability is a clear win?
In my application, code generation, the distilled DeepSeek models (7B to 70B) perform poorly. They imitate the reasoning of the r1 model, but their conclusions are not correct.

The real r1 model is great, better than o1, but the distilled models are not even as good as the base models that they were distilled from.
Your numbers aside, how do you explain the prevailing "we need to build more power plants for AI" sentiment in some circles? Surely that indicates a significant carbon footprint.

(Especially when you consider how many are looking to coal and gas.)
I could see using lithography or some other layer deposition technique, material extrusion to grow bacteria in the right places.

Could also see additive manufacturing the same way, coax trees, shells, etc to grow into desired shapes.

Bioinspired Additive Manufacturing of Hierarchical Materials: From Biostructures to Functions
https://spj.science.org/doi/10.34133/research.0164

Recent Advancements in Biomimetic 3D Printing Materials With Enhanced Mechanical Properties
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/materials/articles/10.3...

Part of a six part series on bio-inspired structures https://www.frontiersin.org/research-topics/10886/3d-printin...

Engineering living and regenerative fungal-bacterial biocomposite structures
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34857911/

For programmable biological robots see https://www.drmichaellevin.org/

*edit, interesting

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2456589-a-sliver-of-lab... https://archive.is/xBO16

> What they call “cultured wood” is the arboreal equivalent of lab-grown meat. By growing tree cells in giant vats fed with sugar, the company aims to produce wood more efficiently and with a lower environmental impact than cutting down and processing actual trees.
Now we need every city to do this.
I hear about the energy cost of AI a lot, have never heard about the energy cost of, say, Facebook.

Is it because these other "services" energy use are in the noise?
> Almost everything is worse than AI, basically.

I am apt to agree but I reject this whole argument completely. This is just part of a de-growth agenda where every action is looked at through the lens of scarcity. Sometimes its environment, other times its equity, but it always leads to extinguishing human flourishing.

Examples:

- Having babies is bad because it increases the carbon footprint

- Having babies is bad because world is over-populated

- Giving advantages to your children is bad because other's aren't as advantaged

- Why invest in rockets when people are starving in [country]

- Honors classes are bad because the distribution of the participants is not proportional to the population

It's all just so exhausting and at this point I refuse to engage with it at any level. There is no winning.
You almost never reintegrate new information with training, its by far the most expensive way to do that.
Mise is right on the edge of being pretty killer. I’m bullish on it. It also includes a lot of nice to haves that you can declare, like k9s, which isn’t exactly a dev tool but becomes expected
I love how social engineering entails you to look down on other people's beliefs, and describe to them how it works like it was some kind of understood machinery. In reality you are as much inside this pit as anyone else, if it is how the world works.

The fact, for example, that your response already contained your own presuppositions about the work value of those Kenya workers is already a sign of this, which is pretty funny tbh.
I find it hard to believe that serious investors thought that vertical progress in ai had peaked, and it would be only horizontal expansion from now on. We know that it takes decades for this to happen in every industry.

It seems more like , investors were looking for a significant event to pop the obvious bubble if the last year
What Happens to Your Gifts After You Return Them?
Just don’t ask it about anything related to Tiananmen square or president Pooh..

I’d guess they didn’t quite a bit of fine tuning to censor some more sensitive topics which probably impacts the output quality for other non technical subjects.
As other's have said, arguing with disputable estimate isn't great. It's even worse if you don't understand physical units and miscalculate. Assuming the assumed 2Wh per prompt are correct, the calculation "2Wh * 20mio users * 24h" for a daily consumption makes no sense, since multiplying Watt-hours with time does not work.
If we assume that each user generates one prompt per day, the actual (still very disputable) calculation would be 2Wh * 20mio users = 40mio Wh usage per day, which would be - according to the author's comparison - around 1000 households per day. Which isn't a lot.

I believe that energy consumption with AI is a large problem, but articles like this unfortunately do not provide a basis for arguments.
Born outside of Sweden and living in Sweden now, you have a few misconceptions here. Scandinavians (or at least the Swedish) complain quite a lot about public services and government, so many discussions I have end with "you know that here is better than pretty much everywhere else". My favorite one is people complaining about trains and public transport where both are waaaaaaaaay better than most other countries. Sure it is not Swiss-level of service (I travelled quite a bit in Switzerland trains), but still very good overall.

And this carries over to almost everything, healthcare, education, job opportunities, entrepreneurism. Not quite the best at anything, but somehow average to very good at everything.

If this "complaining" attitude wasn't a thing you wouldn't be seeing right-leaning political parties rising here. Maybe it is this attitude that keeps the services and institutions working well? I don't know.

I remember a former coworker who complained so much about everything Swedish (from culture, to weather, to people, to institutions, to government). He travelled quite a lot but only ever stayed in the big centers or touristy places. He got enamored with China and thought things were so much better there in every respect compared to Sweden, he took a few months off to live there (considering moving permanently) and came back completely disillusioned. Classic case of only seeing the good parts of other places.

One thing that he actually complained about that quite surprised me was that the trains in China were overcrowded and people were rude in public transport. That was like the one thing I thought China was better than Sweden (because of their overbuilt infrastructure).

Another one that happens a lot when I tell stories about my home country ends up with me saying "what trains? There are no trains!"
Wouldn't surprise me a bit. Thanks for the detailed comment.
> What about Linux namespaces makes you think it's not running on bare metal

Nothing!

That's my point! I've met a number of "MLEs" who couldn't push back like that with my very basic "fizzbuzz" question
If this weren't an attempt to sell a false equivalency, at least one story would have details on the equivalent rental cost of compute used to train closed source frontier models from OpenAI, Anthropic, Mistral... Lack of clarity makes it a story.
We don't "need" it any more than we need endless streams of cat videos and fake personalities on tiktok. Some people get more utility out of one over the other.

Some would argue that we would all be better off without those other things and keeping AI instead.

That subjective interpretation of marginal utility and where valuable becomes wasteful for any particular action is both the reason and the answer for your questions.
You can easily do a fermi estimate based on the information given. They are comparing GPU hours.

See: https://planetbanatt.net/articles/v3fermi.html
All three of your examples deserve to be thoroughly criticized for their waste of energy and resources. What even is this argument?
Do you have UBlock Origin/some other privacy extension installed? The CORS/SRI errors are from blocked Cloudflare and Plausible analytics scripts. I got the same and they went away when I temporarily disabled UBlock.

The notification permission error probably is a genuine bug
The Grug-Brained Developper
What's going on with Show HNs lately?
Thing is, most code is written by entry-level/junior programmers, as the whole career path has been stacked to start grooming you for management afterwards, and anything beyond senior level is basically faux-management (all the responsibilities, none of the prestige). LLMs, dirt-cheap as they are and only getting cheaper, are very much in position to compete with the bulk of workforce in software industry.

I don't know how things are in other white-collar industries (except wrt. creative jobs like copywriting and graphics design, where generative AI is even better at the job as it is at coding), but the incentives are similar so I expect most of the actual work is done by juniors anyway, and subject to replacement by models less sophisticated than people would like to imagine they need to be.
Apple's Strategy: They Can Unleash Consumer AI. Will Apple Intelligence Deliver?
I just tried it myself with ChatGPT o1 and with Claude's Sonnet 3.5, Sonnet got it after two messages, o1 after 4.

If you're unable to reproduce, maybe tune the prompt a bit? I'm not sure what to tell you, all I can tell you that I'm able to figure out stuff a lot faster today than I was 2-3 years ago, thanks to LLMs.

Additional hints that might help; the joke involves a car and possibly a space program.
We're at the point of not having enough sun and wind capacity and having to burn coal and gas.

We've been at that point for a couple centuries. The goal is to not be at that point any more. Adding more demand? Doesn't help.
TeChNoLoGy Is GoD
UK raises cloud competition concerns names Microsoft, Amazon as dominant players
> The panic around deepseek is getting completely disconnected from reality.

This entire hype cycle has long been completely disconnected from reality. I've watched a lot of hype waves, and I've never seen one that oscillates so wildly.

I think you're right that OpenAI isn't as hurt by DeepSeek as the mass panic would lead one to believe, but it's also true that DeepSeek exposes how blown out of proportion the initial hype waves were and how inflated the valuations are for this tech.

Meta has been demonstrating for a while that models are a commodity, not a product you can build a business on. DeepSeek proves that conclusively. OpenAI isn't finished, but they need to continue down the path they've already started and give up the idea that "getting to AGI" is a business model that doesn't require them to think about product.
I would buy this sci-fi book.
would be great to have dynamic quants of V3-non-R1 version, as for some tasks it is good enough. Also would be very interesting to see degradation with dynamic quants on small/medium size MoEs, such as older Deepseek models, Mixtrals, IBM tiny Granite MoE. Would be fun if Granite 1b MoE will still be functioning at 1.58bit.
There was a posting, some time ago, about someone complaining that their young, primary-school-age sister was using ChatGPT to an absurd degree. I'm not sure that's a bad thing. She'll probably be one of the Thought Leaders, of Generation AI.

I think that ML will have a really big impact on almost everyone, in every developed (and maybe developing, as well) nation.

We need to keep in mind that ML is still very much in its infancy. We haven't even seen the specialized models that will probably revolutionize almost every knowledge-based vocation. What we've seen so far, has been relatively primitive all-purpose "generate buzz" models.

Also, don't expect the US (and many other nations) to take this lying down. Competition can be a good thing. Someone referred to this as the "Sputnik Moment" for AI.

It's going to be exciting, and probably rather scary. Keep your hands inside the vehicle at all times, and don't feed the lions.
If you have an internet connection then sure you can?
It is not bad for Nvidia. It is bad for hype. Nvda position was good for being a company selling chips with lots of power. But now that not much power is needed, reliance on nvidia is less. And anyone with simpler processors has capabilities to sell AI chips.

Nvidia will still sell many chips. It just won’t be the only one capable of selling them. The hype is gone. The moat is gone. The excitement and enthusiasm from investors is gone. This is called a correction.
Makes sense - a few weeks after Intel released Granite Rapids (their latest server chips), AMD released Epyc Turin with 40% better multi-core performance for the top-end chips (Intel 6980 vs. Epyc 9755, both 128 cores) - and not only that, but AMD was much cheaper. This price drop brings Intel 6980 from $17k to $12k, exactly matching the corresponding AMD 9755 price. Without the price reduction, Intel’s price per performance would be completely uncompetitive.

Curious if anyone has had success building dual socket GNR or Turin servers at home - seems motherboard availability is limited for retail customers. Also curious if anyone still sees Intel outperformance in any context, eg relating to AVX-512 or MKL workloads.