skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
What kind of an analogy is that? It is not only flawed but does not relate to your argument. I guess the point that illumen was trying to make is that PHP can be used in popular real world applications and is
"proven" to scale. Just like Facebook, you can look at Wikipedia, Wordpress, Tumbler or earlier days of Youtube all of which was/is written in PHP!

Be comfortable with the language you prefer and quit whining about the rest!!!
The bravado comes from an ego and pride in ones self worth, not from Jobs' keynotes.
Corporate Security Services ,Ahmedabad, Gujarat, Security Services
SKYWAVE SECURITY SERVICES PVT. LTD. Firmly belives that the three mains criteria in providing professional as well as quality services are SELECTION, TRAINING & SUPERVISION.We wish to introduce to you the professional security offered by Skywave Security Services Pvt. Ltd. and the details of professional security service that we provide in Gujarat and M.P. our organization is working in private sector with industrial house, commercial complex, educational complex, religious, housing society etc and various Govt. Dept.For an organization like yours, there is an obvious demand and interest of improve security at your premises. We are confident that Skywave Security Services Pvt. Ltd. Provide better security as required to your entire satisfaction. Feel free to contact us: http://www.skywavesecurity.com/
IMO, more important than the language itself are the frameworks built on the language. Ruby might be _the best_ language ever, but without Rails it wouldn't have gotten famous. It wouldn't have mattered so much that Python is a beautiful language if Django sucked. If a good framework came out of the PHP community, we could forget that "PHP sucks". A good framework which prevented you from doing stupid things would be really great. Not sure if PHP has anything like that, at this moment.

I use PHP and Python(Django) - work and play.
the burden of proof reverses after six months (i.e. after six months the buyer has to proof that a defect was present when they bought the product

That's actually what the EU law says aswell. first 6 months fault is presumed to be there from the start. After that, you must show it was faulty.
Don't think in terms of "the rules of debate". Think in terms of evidence, experience and analysis. What I'm saying, and I think the place that Steve Jobs was speaking from, and I think others are speaking from, is from actual direct experience with lots of folks in the real world. Forget proper "data". Forget authority, personally. What I was saying was, look, for the folks that do need an appeal to authority (because they have no experience themselves, or can't do the analysis themselves) the Jobs quote should be money for them. And it doesn't matter whether Jobs was an engineer or not. He worked closely with and led, and hired/fired hundreds of engineers over the years, starting with the Woz himself, and so he's seen firsthand the variety out there in terms of talent, knowledge, skill, attitude, work ethic, etc. It's irrelevant whether he's an engineer or scientist. By being an entrepreneurial business guy in the computer field over the course of 30+ years, at the helm of a company that "kicked ass and took names" in at least two distinct periods under his watch, there's a reasonable case to be made that he knows whereof he speaks. Could he be wrong? Could he be stupid? That's not the smart way to bet.

Also, related: one doesn't need to cite data or academic papers or construct airtight debate-worthy logical arguments to reach conclusions like, gosh, pizza comes in a wide variety of topping mixes, flavors and quality levels. Just experience a bunch of different pizza over the years! Done. :)
You can set minimal price in multi-item auction. You don't have to sell out for auction to end. And you don't have to sell for zero if there are not enough buyers.

As for the second argument, I don't suggest ending it minutes or even hours before the event. Rather days or weeks. The point is that all people who want to go can declare how much they are willing to pay beforehand and if their best offer gets beaten by scalpers, the scalpers won't profit by selling tickets for more money to them just before the show.

My suggestion is not to remove scalpers altogether but limit their opportunities for earning and helping artist extract some of the additional wealth that currently goes to scalpers. Those scalpers that remain would provide legit service of providing tickets to people who couldn't attend an auction.
Clearly you don't understand how much time pressure these people are under. If you were at CERN you would realize how intense the atmosphere has been in the past 2 weeks.

Also, focus on the content - if you're caring so much about the presentation, then you probably don't understand enough of the physics to comment on the content.
Because on a new computer, the average user could just double-click the blue e and they were online, no EU "choose a browser" prompts.
AndhraReporter - Best Tollywood moves Review
A couple people I know well spent the summer there (I actually visited one at the old headquarters; it was pretty cool). One now works there full time (the other hasn't graduated yet). I also talked to some fulltime engineers who were not using PHP.

Now, it's reasonable that I did not get the full picture, but the people I did talk did not use PHP themselves and claimed that new projects didn't either. Perhaps this varies per team. My impression was that existing code bases using PHP were still under active development (that is, getting new features) but new projects and new developers did not use PHP.
No. Example: Zynga.

Users buy stuff that they want, are attracted to and after all that maybe has some usable value.

When people buy your product, they are buying your story.

So solve problems but its not a sufficient condition for success. Also make it something that builds their self esteems, attracts them and make it look like something they would want.

And yes, you can leave out the value and do all the other parts and make a killing. I'm sure you can fill in teh examples here ...
Reducing the cost of your project is a pretty good reason to choose something. Which template language would you choose for those other platforms? One of 200 half-baked templating languages, or something more complete like php?

PHP has better documentation than all of those platforms, so that could be another reason. It has more advanced, popular, and featureful Content Management Systems than all of those platforms.
I am not convinced. My argument is not that PHP sucks or that anything else. It is rather that PHP is lexically tied to corner-case development. In that case PHP is very good at some things but not really all that great for others.

PHP started out as being a pre-processor for SGML documents. All PHP code is contained inside SGML program instruction tags. PHP has never changed this, so however it has developed it is still, in essence an SGML preprocessor because even today, all PHP code is contained in SGML PI tags.

This means that your class files, etc. all begin with opening a PI tag....

Now that doesn't mean there aren't some really cool niches for PHP. Using something like PL/PHP and the native XML support in PostgreSQL, you could do some pretty cool stuff. Similarly for lightweight web development there is simply not a better language.

But when you are building a framework where logic may have to be used in non-SGML environments, PHP is a very poor choice. This means when you choose PHP you are limiting yourself to web environments only. Better choices where there is any possibility of escape from the web include Perl, Python, and Ruby.
Given that this is science, it doesn't mean anything to creationists.
It's also not unusual in at least one of those countries (Thailand) to go to a shopping mall and give your phone to someone who'll install a gazillion apps on it for you.
That might be true but do you think they knew that apriori? I dont think so ...
Mars One - Get Your One Way Ticket To The Red Planet
I feel like the statistics going on here is almost as fascinating as the physics. Well, they technically are the same, but so intriguing to see people hooping and hollering at 5.0 sigma.

"We are 99.999995% sure we found it!"
That is amazing because most universities tend to have the dullest CS teaching crew. I mean, serious insomnia treatments.
Easiest language to learn for non-technical people? I do not believe that comment was made by someone who has tried to teach a non-technical person on how to program PhP. To get started to write a simple thing like a blog, you need to explain concepts like: classes, inheritance, public/private members, global/local decelerations, and context to name a few. Add that with the X number of ways each thing can be done, and the what ways are "right", and what ways are "wrong", and it becomes a huge information load for the student even before getting started writing something simple.
ah yes, key signing parties

http://xkcd.com/364/

:)
What do you mean by "more full-featured alternatives". To me the main webdev languages look about the same when it comes to the major features that have a noticeable impact on a project. e.g: few projects are affected by the lack of closures

And all the talk about real this and real that. I don't think projects become more real when they're written in Ruby or Clojure. They're real when they work and are useful to the customers...
Or sell it as a theme and make money off it.
thx for suggestion, added to lazyweb requests

planned on adding MaxCDN and Rackspace support
A New Particle Could Be Physics’ Holy Grail
A Fractal of PHP Rants
People who argue for PHP as a language always brings up this one argument: "PHP gets things done". Great. It get things done. Quick and dirty, but it gets things done.

That is all fine and dandy, but what when you need things done proper? How does it stack up then?

Oh. You mean you have to consider input-data as actual text, not as some byte-streams which incidentally maps to the same character-set you used to write your code with?

Oh. You mean I need to have locale-ware date, time and number-format handling?

Oh. You mean I need to actually validate these input-data and sanitize them for SQL injections and all that before sending off to the database?

Etc etc.

When you need things not just "done", but done proper, how well does PHP stack up then?

It is my opinion (as in opposed to fact) that when you add that one tiny, but oh so important clause, all arguments for PHP being the one language which gets things done falls apart.

Or am I being too simplistic?
While Apple and Microsoft are very different animals with a completely different corporate culture, there are interesting similarities in their behaviour. That doesn't mean we should simply class them as exactly the same, as there are profound differences in their founding culture, outlook, and aspirations.

However once a corporation reaches a certain size, or perhaps in the process of reaching a certain size, corporations and other social tribes seem to acquire remarkably similar characteristics - the company becomes an ecosystem within which it is possible to thrive without actually serving the long-term interests of the company or customers at all - the corporate culture changes to one in which the most important achievement is to do well within the company, and others outside the company become a remote concern.

Perhaps this is inevitable when a company reaches the size of say Apple, Amazon or Microsoft - all of which have in their different ways abused their market position, and abused their power over smaller companies and competitors in order to make more money. They may not have broken the law very often, but they are all profoundly anti-social in their behaviour. All have tried to lock their customers in to ecosystems over which they have complete control (iOS, Kindle, Windows/Office), all have abused their power over their partners to make unreasonable demands, and all have ignored the long-term interests of their customers in pursuit of profit. They do this because they can, because no-one is stopping them, and because as a collective entity what is safest is for them to stamp out all competition anywhere - to completely dominate the marketplace (at least in the short term, ignoring that this is impossible in the long-term).

Perhaps that's just a natural outcome of capitalism, but as we have stronger limits in other areas of corporate malfeasance (for example regulations on pollution), we do perhaps need limits on the power of these larger companies in the marketplace which are stronger than antitrust laws (which seem to be unused and out of date at the present time).

We've seen Apple morph over the last 10 years (as MS did before it against IBM) from scrappy underdog to dominant corporation, and the transformation means that now they feel happy to arbitrarily ban partners from their devices (e.g. Google Voice, Kindle in-app purchase), sabotage their own production partners (e.g. Samsung), gouge partners with arbitrary licensing (iPod connectors), and ignore the effects on their users, or indeed on their own long-term survival. They are different from the Microsoft of the 90s (perhaps less cut-throat, a little less predictable), but in important ways are similar, and they're storing up the same sort of long-term resentment which is now undermining Microsoft in the consumer space. For example by banning all transactions on their devices which don't involve giving Apple a cut, they annoy both their users and their partners - the only entity this action serves is Apple, and that only in the short term.
Can you name a single industry where "sex sells" isn't an accepted marketing consensus ?
It is a fact about how homo sapiens works, and marketers have been using it for millenia for selling everything from medicine to wholesale building materials.
Ignoring a true fact would be a problem, and an irrational action not worthy of anyone who claims to be an engineer or scientist. Not using "sex sells" in advertising would be suboptimal and simply stupid, of course, it has to be done with taste and (at least attempted) respect in order to be effective.
Flawed and good are not mutually exclusive. I'm no fan of PHP but I have to give it props. It is a legitimate web platform. No other term is more accurate to describe a tool that is used to drive literally billions of dollars in business and to host content viewed by literally hundreds of millions of users every single day.

PHP is out there. Being put to serious work. If you truly believe that PHP is a terrible and horribly broken tool the most dangerous mistake you could make is imagining that PHP doesn't serve as the backbone of much of the web.
Or it's a fake. And since bitcoin has no chargebacks (which many in the bitcoin community think is great!) the customer is left out of pocket with no recourse.

Caveat Emptor.
On the contrary, some creationists make great efforts to engage science on it's own terms, with hilarious results: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/C-decay
Communities as a Business – A Checklist of Revenue Models
I have a 5 sigma level of confidence it was either Chalkboard or Comic Sans. We'll need a real designer to chime in to present their own numerical analysis.
Cheap hello kitty party supplies
Hello Kitty Party Supplies, Discount Hello Kitty Balloon Dreams Party Packs and Favor Boxes. Guaranteed On-Time Delivery.
Yes, Python and Ruby do fail my criteria. Which is why I don't advocate them either.

I'm currently using OCaml, but I would probably prefer to use Haskell. They are both far ahead of PHP.

Assuming your website is doing anything non-trivial, parallelism would certainly be useful. Just because it's a web project does not mean you're not doing something computationally intensive, after all. But even if you don't need it, it certainly doesn't hurt to have the option!

Event-driven IO allows you to maintain more connections on the same resources than a thread-based model. There is just less overhead per connection. That's going to be relevant for most web projects. If you could get this for free (that is, without having to rewrite your code like in Node.js), why wouldn't you want it?

Just because employers seek PHP does not make it a good language, or even not a bad language. It just becomes a necessary evil.

Besides, that depends entirely on the job market in your area. Where I am (near SF), PHP is not in very high demand where Java, JavaScript, Python, Ruby and Objective-C are. I've also seen jobs using Haskell, Scala and (obviously) OCaml. This is obviously going to be different elsewhere, but my point is that it's all relative and not a function of any particular language's quality.
Google Apps my friend - even Mining companies of 2000+ staff are right now eveluating it and loving it.
As for your BI statements you must have a short memory. In the last decade alone the strategy for MS BI changes every 3 years or so, products that partners have spent thousands on training etc have been cut without notice, acquisitions in the space have been squandered with very little IP making it into MS product.
You must have picked the worst example to disprove the OPs argument. Open source based BI solutions have made serious progress over the last 4-5 years.
2012 Puma FAAS 300 Mens
Puma FAAS 300 running shoes Canada outlet, Puma Ferrari Running Shoes, Puma FAAS 300 man, Puma Golf Shoes, Puma sports shoes for men at lowest price, cheapest Puma Trainers Canada, FAST delivery!
Bundle? One reason why microsoft is so hamstrung in the last ten years is because of that word. That, and "anti-trust".

Apple has been behaving well enough not to be on anti-trust watch, and that gives the company so much more freedom to innovate.

And I say that as a penguin.
Nice, but while your at it, why not change the name too, to "MACrosoft"
I'll admit, the new-ish built-in web server in PHP is fantastic and it definitely makes me want to use PHP more often. Configuring Apache, setting up virtual hosts, fixing directory permissions, etc. was horrible.

Composer also looks cool, and I'm going to give it a try. I never understood PEAR/PECL/etc and was never quite able to get them to work properly.
> Can someone please explain what 5 sigma signifies?

It means a statistically very very significant number of physicists are getting laid tonight, around the world. ;)
> And since bitcoin has no chargebacks

Neither does cash. Bitcoin replaces currency, not credit.
I'll play devil's advocate here.

Define "proper"? Does meeting a business need, bringing in money, putting food on the table, and paying the rent mean "proper"? If not, why not?

PHP has a plethora of flaws, but it's still a serious tool and used to build creations of significant value, that can't be ignored. As far as quality, what platform do you use to guarantee quality? I've heard many stories about terribly broken code bases in every language that's out there, from C to Ruby and Python to Java.
I don't think it's necessarily creepy. There is a whole list of classes depending on what 'type' of developer one is, found here: http://search.cpan.org/~ishigaki/Acme-CPANAuthors-0.19/lib/A...

But I know that I'm not known for my extreme sensitivity, so maybe I should withold judgement on this one.
You can pretend that homosexuality is a conscious choice akin to earning more money than someone else, it just increases the pity I feel for you.

Luckily, you're on the losing side of the trend, as more and more states and countries in the world pass laws that promote equality.

I shall now let you have the last word. Have a lovely life, and try to find a way to eradicate that hate you have in your heart - it's the Christian thing to do.
Have you written a production app for PHP in the last 5 years? It handles (out of the box) multibyte encodings, locale-aware number and date formatting, parameterized prepared statements for your SQL, etc as well as most any language.
Heroku Status Uptime Calculation (99.28% June 2012)
\o thx Robbie
I think with the proper tools (and I don't mean using the bare language, but enough libraries that give you nicer abstractions), it can be used for doing things properly just fine. Heck we do a living out of building custom apps for customers that range from financial world to data-oriented startups. You just have to know what you are doing, like with any language really.

- The mbstring ext gives you more or less decent transcoding support. I never had huge issues since it's generally ISO-8859-15 or UTF-8 I'm dealing with, but you may have a point. I can't answer conclusively.

- date handling overall is really great in PHP, I don't know about it in details in every language, but I know in some it's a massive pain. See http://php.net/DateTime and http://php.net/manual/en/intldateformatter.format.php for locale aware formatting.

- SQL injection is handled by the PDO db connectors just fine, and all libraries abstracting this basically take care of it. Unless you follow 10 years old tutorials it's pretty hard to have SQL injection leaks.

Etc etc.

The key is just this: know your tools.
If any comment ever deserved an "El Oh El" it's surely this one.

There aren't any enterprise alternatives even though there should be one.

For instance, if RIM had half a clue and a nickel for every bad idea they've executed on they'd have built a messaging platform to compete with Microsoft.

It's obviously too late for this now, but there aren't many companies that people would trust their email to.
My problem is that, since I've never used a Zune, I have no frame of reference with which to understand your comment. Can you elaborate?
The recent PHP releases are nice, but is there any plans about .. pardon me .. rewriting the core libs ? I guess they're close to zero. Even with a nice Object model, traits, closures and literals .. whenever I see old core functions poke it hurts. At the same time the world has moved: Scala, Go .. PHP still looks odd to me, even with his new found maturity.
Who unfollowed me on Twitter?
"The only thing that matters is the person using it."

Well, sure, I guess if you're really strange, you can be as efficient with Brainfuck as you can be with Python.
PHP is ugly? So are knives and forks but i still prefer to eat with them.
I find PHP's arrays amusing. It's as if Rasmus couldn't decide whether they should be associative or indexed, so he made them both.

Although I suppose, strictly speaking, JavaScript has the same thing. (not intentionally, but you can make an array that is both if you really want to)
Wikipedia has lots of lists of female X: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=list+of+f...

Is that considered creepy too? In any case, I don't think "creepy" is the right word. It implies a sense of stalking, which I don't think this is.
In no way whining about PHP, I still maintain various projects which use it and for which I think it's well suited.

The analogy was only meant to demonstrate an objection to arguments along the lines of "it's used by something popular therefore it's good" or "lots of people use it therefore it's good" which seem to be common points put forward in favour of PHP.

Popularity/ use by someone popular may be an indicator of quality but it very often isn't, the analogy isn't intended to go any further than that!
Well, yes, but awkward clients are still clients (read: people who give you money). Some of the consequences of the mentioned effect are that you may be forced to work with awkward clients or employers, or make otherwise awkward decisions.
built in 2 days, would love help with the lazywebs such as adding tests and more CDN hosts
You should have waited to watch the ATLAS woman's presentation afterward. During hers, they concluded with a solid 5 sigma.
2012 Screen Reader User Survey Results
I am obviously biased, but I am terrified, TERRIFIED, if a company with Microsoft's history has a say in delivering the future.

I dont want that future.

Microsoft has a very very long way to rehabilitate their image for their long history of bad behaviour.