> KPTI won't be default enabled on Linux on AMD CPUs is the issue here. Yet it provides valuable separation between kernel and userspace address ranges.

AMD's security bulletin is actually incredibly weaselly and in fact quietly acknowledges KPTI as the reason further mitigation is not necessary, and then goes on to recommend that KPTI remain disabled anyway.

https://www.amd.com/en/resources/product-security/bulletin/a...

> The attacks discussed in the paper do not directly leak data across address space boundaries. As a result, AMD is not recommending any mitigations at this time.

That's literally the entire bulletin, other than naming the author and recommending you follow security best-practices. Two sentences, one of which is "no mitigations required at this time", for an exploit which is described by the author (who is also a named author of the Meltdown paper!) as "worse than Meltdown", in the most popular brand of server processor.

Like it's all very carefully worded to avoid acknowledging the CVE in any way, but to also avoid saying anything that's technically false. If you do not enable KPTI then there is no address space boundary, and leakage from the kernel can occur. And specifically that leakage is page-table layouts - which AMD considers "only metadata" and therefore not important (not real data!).

But it is a building block which amplifies all these other attacks, including Specter itself. Specter was tested in the paper itself and - contrary to AMD's statement (one of the actual falsehoods they make despite their weaseling) - does result in actual leakage of kernel data and not just metadata (the author notes that this is a more severe leak than meltdown itself). And leaking metadata is bad enough by itself - like many kinds of metadata, the page-table layouts are probably more interesting (per byte exfiltrated) than the actual data itself!

AMD's interest is in shoving it under the rug as quietly as possible - the solution is flushing the caches every time you enter/leave kernel space, just like with Meltdown. That's what KPTI is/does, you flush caches to isolate the pages. And AMD has leaned much more heavily on large last-level caches than Intel has, so this hurts correspondingly more.

But I don't know why the kernel team is playing along with this. The sibling commenter is right in the sense that this is not something that is being surfaced to users to let them know they are vulnerable, and that the kernel team continues to follow the AMD recommendation of insecure-by-default and letting the issue go quietly under the rug at the expense of their customers' security. This undercuts something that the kernel team has put significant engineering effort into mitigating - not as important as AMD cheating on benchmarks with an insecure configuration I guess.

There has always been a weird sickly affection for AMD in the enthusiast community, and you can see it every time there's an AMD vulnerability. When the AMD vulns really started to flow a couple years ago, there was basically a collective shrug and we just decided to ignore them instead of mitigating. So much for "these vulnerabilities only exist because [the vendor] decided to cut corners in the name of performance!". Like that's explicitly the decision AMD has made with their customers' security. And everyone's fine with it, same weird sickly affection for AMD as ever among the enthusiast community. This is a billion-dollar company cutting corners on their customers' security so they can win benchmarks. It's bad. It shouldn't need to be said, but it does.

I very much feel that - even given that people's interest or concern about these exploits is fading over time - that even today (let alone a couple years ago) Intel certainly would not have received the same level of deference if they just said that a huge, performance-sapping patch was "not really necessary" and that everyone should just run their systems in an insecure configuration so that benchmarks weren't unduly harmed. It's a weird thing people have where they need to cover all the bases before they will acknowledge the slightest fault or problem or misbehavior with this specific corporation. Same as the sibling who disputed all this because Linux said he was secure - yeah, the kernel team doesn't seem to care about that, but as I demonstrated there is still a visible timing thing even on current BIOS/OS combinations.

Same damn thing with Ryzenfall too - despite the skulduggery around Monarch, CTS Labs actually did find a very serious vuln (actually 3-4 very serious exploits that let them break out of guest/jailbreak PSP and bypass AMD's UEFI signing and achieve persistence, and it's funny to look back at the people whining that it doesn't deserve a 9.0 severity or whatever. Shockingly, MITRE doesn't give those out for no reason, and AMD doesn't patch "root access lets you do root things" for no reason either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuqefIZrRWc

I get why AMD is doing it. I don't get why the kernel team plays along. It's unintentionally a really good question from the sibling: why isn't the kernel team applying the standards uniformly? Here's A Modest Security Proposal: if we just don't care about this class of exploit anymore, and KASLR isn't going to be a meaningful part of a defense-in-depth, shouldn't it be disabled for everyone at this point? Is that a good idea?