skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Ask HN: Do You Have a Copy of IBM "Logo: Programming with Turtle Graphics"?
Hello HN! First a quick background of what I am trying to search.

In 1983, Logo Computer Systems, Inc. (LCSI) published two popular versions of Logo. One was meant to be run on Atari systems and the other was meant to be run on IBM PCs.

The manuals and documentation for the Atari LCSI Logo are very well archived on the world wide web. The two I am particularly interested in are here:

A) Atari Logo Reference Manual: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/attach/Logo/Atari%20LOGO%20Reference%20Manual.pdf

B) Atari Logo Introduction to Programming Through Turtle Graphics: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/attach/Logo/Atari%20LOGO%20Introduction%20To%20Programing%20Through%20Turtle%20Graphics%20%281-sided%29.pdf

On page 3 of the first document (9th page in the PDF), there is a reference to the second document:

> First time Logo users should start with the companion manual Introduction to Programming Through Turtle Graphics.

However, sadly, the manuals for IBM LCSI Logo does not seem to be easily available. I found the following:

C) IBM Personal Computer Logo Reference: https://archive.org/download/ibm_logo_manual/ibm_logo_manual.pdf

It too has a reference to an introductory documentation:

> The purpose of the IBM Personal Computer Logo Reference is to give you a thorough understanding of the many features of Logo by expanding the information contained in Logo: Programming with Turtle Graphics, which comes with IBM Personal Computer Logo.

However, I have not been able to find a copy of this document anywhere. Do you know any place I can get hold of a copy of the document titled "Logo: Programming with Turtle Graphics" that is meant to be used with IBM/LCSI PC Logo?
> Btw nobody clicks on sources. NOBODY.

I always click on sources to verify what an LLM in this case says. I also hear the claim that a lot about people not reading sources (before LLM it was video content with references) but I always visited the sources. Is there a statistics or studies that actually support this claim? Or is it just a personal experience, of people (including me) enforcing it as generic behavior of all people?
You get it perfectly. Being auditable was one of the priority which is exactly why it's small.

Regarding the clipboard, it's a third party dependency. I looked into implementing Wayland clipboard myself but it is too deep Wayland. The only reason clipboard exists is because I cannot send non-printable characters using uinput.
Frankly I don't care. They can block me if they want.
Schools pay for books, or use public domain materials
To be fair, it didn’t start that way and there are decades of design, legislation and safety regulations around all this, along with infrastructure for licensing/certifying capabilities, tracking and policing capabilities and mistakes over time, insurance, yada yada.

It’s not like that stuff springs up overnight!
Need varies. Some memory needs to be still alive after the parse process.
An alternate or temporary card number isn’t providing false information. It’s also less sensitive since they know not to store it and, at least for Americans, your liability is lower - you can rotate numbers easily, but not your PII.
Yeah LocalParametrization is exactly what they describe. The main contribution is a pretty slick mathematical model. When you use it everything just seems to work out.

Also ceres is pretty great. LocalParametrization in combination with jets works like a treat for EKFs. You never have to worry about calculating jacobians on manifolds ever again.
Nice, was getting sick of my old map of medieval London
So? They have a market cap of $150 billion. If at the start they had decided "oh well let's not bother since what we are doing is legally ambiguous" they would have a market cap of $0.
That's a lot of time and bandwidth to waste
The first officer made a mistake and the captain quickly corrected, per other articles on this. A lot of the headlines around this have been very click-baity, trying to imply that it is a Boeing or Max problem when it is just old-fashioned pilot error.
I agree with the thesis of this article but I actually think the point would be better made if we switch from talking about optimizing to talking about satisficing[1].

Simply put, satisficing is searching for a solution that meets a particular threshold for acceptability, and then stopping. My personal high-level strategy for success is one of continual iterative satisficing. The iterative part means that once I have met an acceptability criterion, I am free to either move on to something else, or raise my bar for acceptability and search again. I never worry about whether a solution is optimal, though, only if it is good enough.

I think that this is what many people are really doing when they say they are "optimizing", but using the term "optimzing" leads to confusion, because satisficing solutions are by definition non-optimal (except by luck), and some people (especially the young, in my experience) seem to feel compelled to actually optimize, leading to unnecessary perfectionism.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing

ps — Re-reading that wikipedia article reminds me of how often the topics that make the front page as "new" thoughts have been studied and written about in detail by thinkers of the past. Herbert Simon's Bounded Rationality has a lot to say about the toping of the original link.
They literally could have sent up anything and it certainly wasn’t useful, which was GP’s only criteria for being launched.
For me, the irony is the opposite side of the same coin, 30 years of "information wants to be free" and "copyright infringement isn't piracy" and "if you don't want to be indexed, use robots.txt"…

…and then suddenly OpenAI are evil villains, and at least some of the people denounced them for copyright infringement are, in the same post, adamant that the solution is to force the model weights to become public domain.
As a long time Apple customer I couldn’t care less.

This is mainly to satisfy governments who are looking into Apples dominant position in the market. I doubt this was a big request from the apple community.

It’s like the new possibility to use non apple app stores. It’s mainly coming from people who don’t like Apple and use Android anyway.
Does it degrade when hermetically sealed? I thought it was down to moisture and getting it in a double glass would be good enough
I mean, it's to be expected. Most driving infrastructure is designed for human eyes and brains, including flashing lights on police cars. If you redesign the driving system from scratch to work on silicon and not brain, you pretty much expect its failures to not look like the kind of failures we're used to. Even if it's objectively better, with a lower accident rate, lower fatality rate and so on, it will occasionally do something as stupid looking as "drive into a police car with flashing lights on".

Which is why suitability decisions should not be made based on anecdotes.
If that were the case, the US government would not ban US companies from selling to equipment and software to Huawei.

After all, if all the US were worried about were back doored Huawei equipment (of which there's no evidence), why would it care if Huawei phones in China use Google services?
> it's not scraping, it's retrieving the page on request from the user

Search engines already tried it. It’s not retrieving on request because the user didn’t request the page, they requested a bot find specific content on any page.
I think you are confusing "memory" with strategies based on memorisation. Yes memorising (ie putting things into memory) is always involved in learning in some way, but that is too general and not what is discussed here. "Compression is understanding" possibly to some extent, but understanding is not just compression; that would be a reduction of what understanding really is, as it involves a certain range of processes and contexts in which the understanding is actually enacted rather than purely "memorised" or applied, and that is fundamentally relational. It is so relational that it can even go deeply down to how motor skills are acquired or spatial relationships understood. It is no surprise that tasks like mental rotation correlates well with mathematical skills.

Current research in early mathematical education now focuses on teaching certain spatial skills to very young kids rather than (just) numbers. Mathematics is about understanding of relationships, and that is not a detached kind of understanding that we can make into an algorithm, but deeply invested and relational between the "subject" and the "object" of understanding. Taking the subject and all the relations with the world out of the context of learning processes is absurd, because that is in the exact centre of them.
Weight of the panels is not a significant portion of installation and labor costs.

Square footage (aka surface area) and installation surface challenges are.

Roof mounting is expensive. Supporting snow and wind loads is expensive.

Reducing dead weight is only going to help a tiny percent, as even if they weighed literally nothing it would not meaningfully change the load calculations.
LLMs don't really retain the full data anyway and it "should" be scrapped once the training is done. So yes, technically you might be able to demand that your data is to be removed from the training data, but that's going to be fairly hard to prove that it exists within the model.
Not necessarily the cheapest, but the one with the best combination of efficiency, cost, durability, and possibly other properties I'm overlooking.
Traffic numbers, regardless if it using reader mode or not, are used as a basic valuation of a website or page. This is why Alexa rankings have historically been so important.

If Perplexity visit the site once and cache some info to give to multiple users, that is stealing traffic numbers for ad value, but also taking away the ability from the site owner to get realistic ideas of how many people are using the information on their site.

Additionally, this is AI we are talking about. Whos to say that the genrated summary of information is actually correct? The only way to confirm that, or to get the correct information in the first place, is to read the original site yourself.
Well, your website is public (not password protected) and anyone can access it. If that ONE is a bot whatever.
Should OP be allowed to demand a license for redistribution from Orion Browser [0]? They make money selling a browser with a built-in ad blocker. Is that substantially different than what Perplexity is doing here?

[0] https://kagi.com/orion/
>We paid gazzilions to write quality content for tourists about the most different places just so Google could put it on their homepage. It's just depressing

It's a legitimate complaint, and it sucks for your business. But I think this demonstrates that the sort of quality content you were producing doesn't actually have much value.
> For example, I can reliably drive to novel places on the other side of Chicagoland without a map.... something those raised on Google maps just can't do. Once I've been somewhere,

The shift away from physical maps is a primary factor in my shift away from exploring.
If needed, you should zero memory on allocation succeeds, instead of zeroing it after it is freed.
I installed an additional 12 505Wp panels by myself last weekend, the panels came with MC4 connectors installed which is pretty standard I think. Hard to get zapped by solar DC juice that way.

BTW: installing solar panels DIY is apparently super easy, as I found out. I have a flat roof and used micro inverters, to make it easier, but I was done in less than a day (excluding selecting the components and layout)
No offense, but it sounds you're generalizing too much of your own personal experience onto others.
Ask HN: How much marijuana do you smoke/eat/vape?
Isn't that just the American spelling?

I always assume Americans remove 'u' from everything.
> We’re excited to preserve this best-known copy of this commercial and share it with you!

So, where's the link to archive.org?
IMO with solar it makes the most sense to stick to high volume Chinese stuff. Longi/Jinko/Trina/CanadianSolar/whatever for panels and Deye for inverters. The Deye stuff is particularly good because of aforementioned smart features, especially if you are off-grid or operate on crappy rural power.

My favourite feature is called peak-shaving where it uses the battery to supplement said crappy rural power or a generator that is provisioned for average load instead of peak.

I haven't found inverters with similar features and configurability anywhere else thus far.
We've solved energy in middle of sunny, summer day. We haven't solved it in middle of winter night.
I feel like that's a uniquely North American need. Most countries don't have the single family / multi car ownership structure. Still a real need. But implications of a country where large% of people can meet their own energy needs is interesting.
I meant in the marketplace as bought by actual consumers. So, the cheapest.
I do realise it now that it's missing it's usage. It's a simple keyboard macro which supports all printable characters for triggers and everything for expansions. It sends native key presses if all the expansion are printable characters. If not, it uses clipboard and sends `Ctrl+V`
It's scraping content to then serve up that content to users who can now get that content from you (via a paid subscription service, or maybe ad-sponsored) instead of visiting the content creator and paying them (i.e., via ads on their website)

It's the same reason I can't just take NYT archives or the Britannica and sell an app that gives people access to their content through my app.

It totally undercuts content creators, in the same way that music piracy -- as beloved as it was, and yeah, I used Napster back in the day -- took revenue away from artists, as CD sales cratered. That gave birth to all-you-can-eat streaming, which does remunerate artists but nowhere near what they got with record sales.
Yeah, this is part of how Japanese companies like Toyota were able to compete with “lean” processes. Early on they were too small to adopt American manufacturing processes so they were forced to try something different.
> If Perplexity’s source code is downloaded from a public web site or other repository, and you take the time to understand the code and produce your own novel implementation, then yes.

Even that can be considered infringement and get you taken to court. It's one of the reasons reading leaked code is considered bad and you hear terms like cleanroom[0] when discussing reproductions of products.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design
The state of carbon dioxide removal
This hits the point exactly, it’s an extension of stuff like Google’s zero click results, they are regurgitating a website’s content with no benefit to the website.

I would say though, it feels like the training argument may ultimately lead to a similar outcome, though it’s a bit more ideological and less tangible than regurgitating the results of a query. Services like chatgpt are already being used a google replacement by many people, so long term it may reduce clicks from search as well.
Maybe someone think "func" listens like another word.
Why should it be possible to stop an LLM from training itself on your data? If you want to restrict access to data then don't post it on a public website. It's easy enough to require registration and agreement to licensing terms for access.

It seems like some website owners want to have their cake and eat it too. They want their content indexed by Google and other crawlers in order to drive search traffic but they don't want their content used to train AI models that benefit other companies. At some point they're going to have to make a choice.
I, on the other hand, hope NYT refuses a settlement and OpenAI loses in court.
Do those languages command even a single percentage of marketshare combined?
Zero. None
And that's great, they are making a lot of money in markets where they are allowed to operate and comply with local laws.

I'm just interested in seeing if AI companies can do the same, if they are going to be required to pay licenses on their training data.
I'm more shower than grower.
Who sanitizes the sanitizer? One of the most hilarious bugs I've previously seen is when someone found a memory out-of-bound access inside the run time support library of Asan.
I'm using brave for youtube and haven't seen this yet.
Is it same as human reading a book?

We are not even giving same rights to other mammals. So why should we give it to software.
New Linux malware is controlled through emojis sent from Discord
That failure can be mitigated by having a local backup, though. In general, with local stuff, it's not so much that the guarantees are better, it's that you can dial them in yourself to the level you feel comfortable at.
On the green bubbles, I’m hearing that RCS is just a wrapper and an encrypted protocol could function within RCS

will the bubbles go blue then?

I really just want another way to know the level of interaction I can have with someone at that point in time.

I think SMS is different enough than RCS to support a different way of realizing it. Whether message bubble color or something else
LLMs don’t memorize everything they’re trained on verbatim, either. It’s all vectors behind the scenes, which is relatable to how the human brain works. It’s all just strong or weak connections in the brain.

The output is what matters. If what the LLM creates isn’t transformative, or public domain, it’s infringement. The training doesn’t produce a work in itself.

Besides that, how much original creative work do you really believe is out there? Pretty much all art (and a lot of science) is based on prior work. There are true breakthroughs, of course, but they’re few and far between.
I don't think the earth can servive without the sun. Pretty basic, I think.
Thanks! I think maybe not everyone understands exactly what a "keyboard macro" is, that you type something and it fills out predefined text. At least judging by some comments here :)
I'd argue it only demonstrates that it doesn't produce much value for the creator.
It works on Wayland as well AFAIK. I looked up espanso for expanding emojis and it seems they too use `wl-clipboard`
I was a TA during that time. A part of the students that came in weren't familiar with concepts such as files and directories or desktop UI metaphors because they were used to mobile OS or in rare cases didn't have any actual exposure to computers. But because the last case used to be the rule and traditionally students mostly used the provided thin client labs and Solaris servers the basic intro to actually using a keyboard and the provided hardware to get things done didn't change much, even when they switched from Solaris to Linux on x86.
With humans, we approximate this with school grades. School grades correlate, imperfectly but they do correlate, with IQ test scores — that's actually where IQ tests came from.

IQ tests (and school grades) are imperfect, but again they still correlate somewhat with general success in life.

Unfortunately, school grades aren't quite right as a measure for AI intelligence despite being interesting measures for AI capabilities, as AI are effectively studying much longer than any human when you adjust for raw processing speed — a human simply cannot read English Wikipedia in their lifetime, it's too long, but that's just a small part of the training set for a good LLM.

> Because AI’s don’t have thousands of hours of marble rolling and rock skipping,

They can if you put it on their curriculum.

> how can we evaluate their ability to study fields and waves?

Same way as a human with the same subjective experience.
I don't even mean the modern stuff. Even fairly old Windows apps can do fractional scaling just fine. WPF does it without a hitch, and it dates back to 2006. Even many WinForms apps can do it, and then of course Qt etc.

But even disregarding all that - if such scaling can be done without problems with webpages, then clearly there's no technical impediment to doing the same elsewhere. It's not like HTML is magic.
> TFA demonstrates that they got a hit on their site

Whats stopping perplexity caching this info say for 24 hours, and then redisplaying it to the next few hundred people who request it?
You may be relaxed at the end, but I DO NOT want to die. Don't know whats going in your lives, but I don't die. Life it for living.
RetroPie: A Raspberry Pi Gaming Machine [NetworkChuck] [video]
Here's my user agent on chrome:

>Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/126.0.0.0 Safari/537.36

There are at least five lies here.

* It isn't made by Mozilla

* It doesn't use WebKit

* It doesn't use KHTML

* It isn't safari

* That isn't even my version of chrome, presumably it hides the minor/patch versions for privacy reasons.

Lying in your user agent in order to make the internet work is a practice that is almost as old as user agents. Your browser is almost certainly doing it right now to look at this comment.
Because the news story covered two crashes, and it's describing the one that was fatal.
That line of thinking makes no sense. If the "content" had no value, why would google go through the effort of scraping it and presenting it to the user?
1000-2000 fpm would be a typical climb/descent in most situations. 4000 fpm would raise an eyebrow or two but is not generally alarming (that is, it's well within the performance envelope of most aircraft).

However, at 600' any loss of altitude without a suitable runway beneath you and an aircraft ready to greet it is a very alarming prospect.

As for this incident, it sounds like a junior pilot accidentally hit the control column while going for another control. It's only notable for having occurred at the very moment you don't want such things to occur. I suggest a corrective action of briefing pilots not too hit the control column.
All these stars, and every one of them is unique. It boggles the mind.
Thank you for the feedback. I definitely see what you mean. ChatGPT costs $20/mo, our lowest plan is $7/mo – we do the exact same as ChatGPT + a ton more.
Apple MacBook Pro Fragrance
It matters for anyone who has an iPhone but regularly texts people with Androids. That is a very common use case.
OpenAI CEO says company could become for-profit corporation, Information reports
That's you, because you are a researcher or coder or someone who uses his brain much more than average, hence not an average joe. I ran a news site for 15 years and the stats showed that from 10000 views on an article, only a miniscule amount of clicks were made on the source links. Average people do not care where the info is coming from.

Also perplexity shows the videos on their site, you cannot go to youtube, you have to start it on their site, and then you have to click on the youtube player's logo in the lower right to get to the site.

Perplexity is getting greedy.
> The craziest one is the stack overflow contributors. They write answers for free to help people become better programmers.

In my experience they do it for points and kudos. Having people get your answers from LLMs instead of your answer on SO stops people from engaging with the gamification tools and so users get less points on the site.
Few moments (or hours, or days, depending when you are reading this post) ago a custom level set, titled "The Legend of Zelbaba: Linkeke between words" was presented @party 2024 - https://scenesat.com/video/atparty . Actual presentation starts at around 17-ish minute of live stream. Level pack is here (base game required): https://gamebanana.com/mods/150971