skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
As an adult who got nothing from school, drifted into jobs I didn't like, and eventually started a degree (long boring story) to try and get a better job, ROI is extremely important. I wanted a better life for me and my family.

As the father of a child about to head to university ROI for them is extremely important to me. ROI for my child however is not even a consideration because they want to do what they want to do and what do I know anyway, they already know everything. I hope they've chosen something that's useful though!

I also would have preferred a full list of courses to avoid if ROI was important.
How is this different than many other "western democracies"?

For one specific example - The Netherlands with its various tax breaks/benefits - such as buying hybrid or fully electric car, installing solar panels, turning off natural gas (widely used for heating houses/apartments and domestic water) and switch to air based heat pumps and induction cooktop ...

All combined brought the country to a point where it's struggling with electrical grid capacity and availability.

While existing homes tend to have reliable supply of electricity. New homes and companies wait for electrical connection or they still go through with using natural gas despite hybrid heat pumps already being placed, during peak sun electrical grid operators turn off receiving electricity from private solar panels ...etc
Saying that LLMs should be able to do problems without CoT is a bit like saying that humans should be able to write programs without thinking though. CoT is fundamentally an architectural necessity owed to the finite cognitive effort possible per token. Let it be CoT, let it be QuietSTaR ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2403.09629 ), let it be pause tokens ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2310.02226 ), let it even be dots ( https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.15758 ), but the thinking has to happen somewhere.

I think mostly, LLMs at the moment are incredibly uneven. LLM assistants can pull obscure knowledge out of nowhere one second and fail extremely basic reasoning the next. So just because some example happens a lot in the source material doesn't mean the LLM can learn it. IMO, that CoT works at all is more down to luck of the training set than any inherent capability of the LLM.
Many academic programs in the humanities don't even admit Masters degree students. They admit only PhD students, and a Masters degree is simply a certificate you get for satisfying the pre-dissertation requirements on the way to the PhD. There's no independent value to the Masters, and anyone in those programs who leaves school with a Masters is essentially a "failure", because they didn't complete their doctorate, the true goal. So it would be no surprise that these have a negative ROI.

In these cases, you can't even get a non-tenure-track teaching position with a Masters degree, because there are already plenty of PhD graduates to fill the positions. (It would be interesting to see the ROI of PhDs, by the way.)
Something that has bothered me for a while is the cost structure of college. At least at my school, everyone paid the same amount, plus or minus three or four thousand dollars. Meanwhile, a computer science major will earn on the order of double what a psychology major might earn, both as a starting salary, and that will compound over their careers.

This is also true of loans. There is one flat interest rate for (federal) student loans. That rate does not reflect the creditworthiness of the borrower at all. It doesn’t consider their major at all. Any intelligent lender would never operate this way; who would give both a computer science major and basket weaving major the same amount of money and claim (via interest rate) that both loans are equally risky?

We have the concept of prices to serve as tools to encourage or discourage people from pursuing ventures society needs (or, really, is willing to pay for) more or less. It seems to me that in the context of higher education the economics are fundamentally broken. This causes a lot of grief for a lot of people, who then claim socialized higher education is the answer. It might be better than what we have; I’m not sure. That said, I’m inclined to think the free market would solve a lot of the problems seen in the current student loan situation in the US. There would be no kids with low-value degrees in $250k of debt graduating with a job paying $30k/yr. That simply shouldn’t happen.
I guess that depends on what one is looking for. I think that the current selection covers at least 99% of people's needs and wants.
Show HN: Hstream – write Streamlit, ejcct to Django and Htmx
I love Streamlit, but I've often found it insurmountable to transition from a Proof of Concept to MVP

I've release a new version of the previously loved HStream [1]. This update introduces an eject command, which generates Django source code from your hstream apps. You can run this code immediately and gradually integrate custom Django functionalities.

The other advantages of HStream is:

1) easier to extend when you move past PoC since hstream acts more like a typical web stack

2) with htmx at the core hstream is much less complex than alternative. This simplicity aids in performance and extensibility, making it easier to develop packages on top.

3) html is simple, so using this we can give the user much more control around the look and feel, while falling back onto pico.css (classless css) sane defaults.

Would love to hear people's thoughts.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33547813
In the news I mostly see or hear about the non-adjusted gender pay gap (women earn 17-21% less than men). The adjusted pay gap, which takes hours worked into account, is only 1-5% [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap
I’m very curious - is your sister single? I ask because often low wage earners are being subsidized by their partner.
We are failing to build a worthwhile society to live in.

What should we do about that?
For some domains, like most software jobs, it might work. In India, you sometimes see children manning pharmacies. It's not because of child-labour, but because dad/mom is away and someone needs to look after the shop. India has laws against this, but so rarely enforced that in effect, one can run a pharmacy without a degree. I dread to think of how many clinics in small towns are run by people without degrees. Heck, we have even had lawyers and judges practicing without degrees. I know only about a handful of such cases because some scandals they got involved in made it into news media. But who knows how many such people are practicing even now!
Local coverage:

https://www.ourmidland.com/news/police_and_courts/article/wo...
> But when people are talking about the gender pay gap they usually mean within a specific field or job title

And they have to remember to avoid comparing the per hour earning at all cost.
> having an educated population that can tell fact from fiction, engage in critical thinking, and resist fascism?

That's contrary to Reason's (the publisher) goals
> in countries where you go to jail for criticizing Catholic Church

I'm yet to hear of such a country. Aren't you thinking of lese majesté laws that some countries like Spain and the Netherlands have?
The slippery slope scenario you described didn't happen with the Down syndrome for which there is a reliable screening. There are a few people want to ban that screening and they use exactly the same arguments (also it's eugenics!). We're lucky that at least these people are rightfully viewed as insane.
The burden of the proof of no bullshit is on the LLM proponents.
My masters was a waste of time. My employer paid for it though. I would have gotten farther in my career by using those school hours to just work extra hours.
Additionally it’s wild they think their content hadn’t already been scraped and trained on.

They were fine with humans training on this data and selling their expertise to employers, but they’re not fine with a higher order way to consume their contribution and are removing it so smaller open source competitors to open ai can’t train on the same data openai trained on.
Pay no attention to that woman behind the curtain.
Studying most things in most places is free of charge in Germany. Generally there'll be a mandatory fee that includes a public transport ticket and some administrative overhead (~300-400€/6 months).
I strongly support (m/p)aternity leave equality, but I can think of lots of reasons new mothers should be able to take more time off.
I can generally agree with lowering barriers of entry, even if there would be some social stigma of having a doctor who didn't go to school. My reservation would be around ethics classes, but I guess I just don't know if any of the exams for lawyers or doctors have a set of questions surrounding ethics.
Interestingly,

Someone at the gov attempting to dispel these theories, skirts them as well:

Raquel Recuero… said the conspiracy theories were likely being spread by organized groups "in search of an audience, monetization and influence."

So, no certainty, just possibly, but why not put it out there?
> analysis looked at how much students were earning immediately after graduation, as well as how much they were making 10 years later

The observation window might be too short to capture the full effect of education. IIRC the earnings curve peaks later for higher education.
> swallowing the trash in a corporate job

My wife is an artist with a marketing degree. I love programming. Swallowing trash at work just feels less painful to me.
The government should require that colleges track and post details about their grads. What percentage are able to sustain careers related to their degree and how much do both groups (in and out of the field) earn?

I really think transparency here might help restrain future tuition increases because only so many students are going to sign up for a six figure a year school where the grads earn half that amount.
LLMs are mostly trained on Internet posts, so they are Internet simulators.

If an Internet posts explains its reasoning, step-by-step it reaches a correct conclusion more often than other posts. Therefore LLMs that explain their reasoning and also more likely to reach the correct solution.
Sad but true. The publishing industry (think Penguin books) is full of independently wealthy white women - “This unpaid internship is a fantastic career opportunity!”
And that's across all ages, but as you go younger the wage gap actually reverses and women make more than men.
As a gainfully employed person with a philosophy degree, I’m glad I chose a degree without obvious “career prospects” and wouldn’t exchange it for anything. Education is supposed to be about learning, not getting a return on investment. The desire to financialize every decision is so tiresome. Not everything needs to be about economics, and the co-opting of the university system for job placement is really the root issue here. Job training should be separate from a liberal arts education.

That said, the absurd costs of attending university need to come down. Hopefully as alternatives to university become more viable, the cost of doing an English, philosophy, arts, etc. degree will come down to more reasonable levels.
Yes, indeed. There seems to be a gender disparity in those choices. ;)
I only wish people would stop calling these "conspiracy theories" and would begin calling it "stupid political tribalism".

The truth of the matter is that these stupidities are politically motivated. People saying this bullshit are the ones that deliberately want to dismiss the reality of global warming.

And they will keep on overlooking evidence and speculate on the most lunatic way possible into disaster.
They nearly weren't
I created a list of links to various freely available online learning resources about computer programming, math, and science:

https://github.com/bobeff/programming-math-science

Most of them are collected from HN posts.
Or possibly financial assistance from the Bank of Mom and Dad.
The extension appears to also produce an explanation of its decision, so there is potential to bullshit: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Future_Audiences/Experiment:...

Also, if you look into their “wrong” example closer, it is a bit misleading, as both sources are correct. Joe Biden was 29 on election day, but 30 when he was sworn in. Understanding this requires more context than the LLM was apparently provided.
Mass immigration plus zoning restrictions and size requirements on housing. The problem isn't complicated.
Would a Giraffe Float – Or Sink?
While factually correct...I find your comment somewhat lacking in vehement moral disapproval.
They are indeed scary, but one thing that can make them less so is writing them in a high level language. A nice code base to study if you're new to GCs is the GenScavange module of SubstrateVM, a JVM written entirely in Java. Start here:

https://github.com/oracle/graal/blob/master/substratevm/src/...

It gets compiled to native code for use. It's actually a bit of a dialect of Java because of course, you need low level memory and stack access. So you can see at parts there is use of special APIs that get compiled to things like stack allocations, so it can avoid allocating on the heap whilst working with it. Even so the "business logic" of a GC can be easily seen here, especially if you don't know C++.
This is 100% right. The original purpose of scientific "journals" and "meetings," as those words themselves indicate, was to enable scientists to share new ideas and findings more efficiently with each other. There was no "peer review" as we know it today during the scientific revolution.

The current system of "peer review" was introduced after Einstein's time. The purpose of this system is to manage, i.e., control, the exchange of information. The consequence is that we now have all these career-minded scientists who equate "success" with publication of papers in selective peer-reviewed venues.
I think these scenarios are compatible if we view LLMs as "fragile reasoners": they can occasionally reason, but it is an intermittent state that is easily disturbed. In such a world, we would expect to see that people who want LLMs to work can make them work with difficulty, and people who want or expect LLMs to fail can make them fail easily - or rather, maybe less adversarially phrased, one can generate examples of either outcome.
Conquering Errors in Go: A Guide to Returns and Handling
I dont think conspiracy theories are for dumb people. I think its mostly for people that dont feel understood.
They see the world is telling them a narrative but despite this narrative, they have no great job, no great life partner or no great status in their community, they feel there must be something that is preventing them from getting these things.
They go in search of an explanation and find it. They get hooked on the simplicity of these narratives and find them so satisfying.
The effect mentioned did not seem hugely material based on the numbers given, but it seems like it could be explained quantitatively rather simply by just taking into account the extra time spent out of the job market.
agreed. as with most statistical analyses, the conclusions drawn can differ in some interesting ways, which is what should lead to further inquiries for research and hypotheses.

where one set of eyes sees higher education as unnecessary due to “low ROI”, another set of eyes may wonder if/how/why the cost of higher education has outpaced salaries of those whom it’s supposed to have served.

my sense (and its all intuition and not information based) is that we’ve had about 2 decades of rapidly increasing educational costs while support funding (grants, scholarships, state subsidization) has remained stagnant (or decreased), and incomes of graduates have not increased at the same rate relative to the cost of acquiring that degree.

these trendlines would be pretty informative if someone created them. then we could ask why …
Somewhat related is the The Rock-afire Explosion band from ShowBiz Pizza Place. There is an excellent documentary on the history and some of the fans preserving the technology.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTmhS6hcY-A
Such a nice report!
"Insulting the religious feelings" is the phrasing here in Poland. It's almost exclusively prosecuted when the hurt feelings are on the side of the vast majority = Catholics.

There's about 50 people sentenced per year.

My point wasn't that, my point was that people supporing these consider themselves "fighting for free speech" because they want to be able to insult minorities.
Find me good Internet posts that use verification and general reasoning. They are rare. The Internet posts I read suck at verification and general reasoning.

Therefore LLMs will suck at verification and general reasoning until we refine or augment our datasets.
Op's example however did use glibc though.
No-one in at least a century has been sent to jail for criticizing the church in holland; and especially not the Catholic church.
That’s even worse, of course you are allowed your own feelings. What gives me the creeps is when people start talking about prevention it easily slides into eugenics or other things that deny poeople agency or even their humanity.

There is a similar thing for deaf people. Or how screening for Down’s has changed the reality of raising a child with it.
Le .. phrasing hasn't been around for like 10 years there.

Welcome to millennial nerd facebook, where we fondly remember when reddit was fun ;)
Ask any current college student whether they think the content of their courses are actually worth the cost, or if they're just there to get the piece of paper at the end.

In my anecdotal experience, I would say about 25% of my courses are actually worthwhile and not total busywork. Even then, all of the information is readily available online anyway

Honestly, its hard to not see college like an obstacle course at times. Just arbitrary requirements with little relation to the real world you gotta complete just to show to employers that you could.
One thing that these kind of studies usually haven't counted is comparison of graduate income with their parents' income, which usually are highly correlated. This is why there are some claim that philosophy or art major have some of the highest incomes, people who take that major usually are high class already. If this study is somehow able to eliminate that bias, I bet even more majors will have negative ROI.
Well, if you use pinch or spread gestures, they are also reversed, so it is indeed getting it back to front compared to some default.
People discuss human-made antennas placed in Alaska changing their weather, but can't comprehend that cutting down forests and burning coal can have an impact too.
How can you tell fact from fiction without having a teaching assistant a few years older than tell you what the facts are?
and most of the issues debunked by the flatpak dev, and bottles developer, in that same year, 4 years after that steam deck recomends flatpak, and portals are a lot more mature, that site need tobe taken down lmao
It is an interesting idea.

The real problem though are the ridiculous cost of state run schools.

As someone who has been out of college for 20 years, I can't believe what my state school charges now.

When I graduated my school was a good value compared to private options. That was the whole point of a state school.

Now the same school cost 4X what it does and I don't know if I could even get in when up against so many brilliant Indian and Chinese students. I assumed when I went the goal of the institution was for a more educated population in the state. That was the point of the huge difference in price for instate tuition.

Now it seems like some kind of money making racket.
It seems to me that in the context of higher education the economics are fundamentally broken.

There are lots of examples of this type of situation in the U.S. Suburbia is subsidized through the road system. Gas taxes and vehicle registration aren’t enough to pay for the road system. K-12 education is subsidized by non parents. Police services are subsidized. There’s a ton of corporate welfare too.

There are some things for which a free market solution is advisable and some things for which it not advisable. I think education falls into the “not advisable” group.
FWIW, I'm seeing the opposite in my home computer emulators (https://floooh.github.io/tiny8bit/), which are compiled from C with heavy bit-twiddling on 64-bit integers. Firefox is slightly slower than Chrome (on an M1 Mac) - but not enough to matter much (around 5..10% or so).

It might be heavily depending on the actual 'instruction mix' and host CPU instruction set (e.g. maybe Firefox has better support for x86 than ARM).
> they have no great job, no great life partner or no great status in their community, they feel there must be something that is preventing them from getting these things

My friend works in IT and earns probably in the 99th or 98th percentile in the country. It's not that. In fact I don't think economic wellbeing is related at all. Poland has been doing great economically for the last 30 years, and yet the conspiracy theories are spreading.

I mostly blame social media. Previously if you wanted to know how the climate works you looked it up in encyclopedia, watched some TV or asked a teacher. They mostly weren't spreading bullshit.

Now you search internet and there's so much bullshit confirming all your wrong ideas you can spend weeks reading just that.
It also gets pinch and spread gestures back to front, so it seems someone just got a sign wrong somewhere.
I always objected to the grumpy old people who complained "this has been covered and answered many times, so let's close this thread."

Having said that, this has been covered and answered many times. Can we please create a responder for any HN question that can be answered with "LLMs are Internet simulators, and they do that because that is how Internet posts are."
It sounds like you don't have an amazing manager, you have an easy manager - a comfortable manager. Someone who is pleasant to work with, but who is not effective at their job of managing the team.

Or, it could be that they are not amazing at managing you. They are not helping you find solutions to the problems you are having, nor are they mentoring you to resolve the problems yourself. As a result you are diminishing your own presence and work. And they are ok with that?

To answer your question, I would not switch. It sounds like you mostly like the job, you just dislike a couple co-workers. That will always be the case, anywhere you go. Part of learning to navigate your career is learning how to work with people whose working and communication styles differ from your own.
> What percentage are able to sustain careers related to their degree

What does “related to their degree” mean? My degree is in English (Creative Non-Fiction) and I think, read, write, give/receive direct criticism, and finish things on a deadline every day — all key components of my degree program.

I’m in a leadership role at a marketing agency.

If you say that’s not related to my degree program, then I’d say that’s neither good nor bad. I graduated 20 years ago. How many people’s interests and abilities are the same at 45 as they were at 25?
There's an ethics exam you generally need to pass to become a lawyer: https://www.ncbex.org/exams/mpre
The US firm tasked with creating next generation of nuclear 'Doomsday' planes
>Live TV & DVR. Watch TV and set automatic recordings to expand your library.

How does that work in the age of IPTV? Are there DRM free IPS'?
OpenBSD – LibreSSL version 3.9.2 released
Click the timestamp and add it to your favorites.