>> They talk about cold fusion as if it exists as well.

"warm" fusion does exist, see https://brillouinenergy.com/ - some have insisted that Brillouin Energy is doing cold fusion, but I am not sure if cold fusion is an appropriate description. The Brillouin Energy team is completely external to the Safire team, though they may share some of the "controversial" views that the Safire team also holds about how electricity plays a greater role in chemistry than conventional thought. The awesomeness of the larger zeitgeist of science is that it is always changing.

As far as I know, and am interested to find out, Brillouin doesn't reach a temperature of 25,000 °C.

>> They have a working plasma, yes

The Safire plasma, on its face as shown by direct observation, behaves very differently than other plasmas, in a way that others were not able to make happen.

>> They do not, in any way shape or form, a self-sustaining fusion-producing plasma.

I think this here exemplifies how there is one set of words on the screen, and some here are reading some other set of words. This phrase you have presented has not been written anywhere else on this thread. I am not aware of any point where the Safire team wrote or uttered "a self-sustaining fusion-producing plasma".

Whatever ghost you thought you were arguing against, I don't think it exists.

That said, the Safire plasma, like other plasmas, produces heat that can be converted to electricity. Because the Safire plasma remains contained by its self-containing magnetic fields and does not require external magnets to force the plasma to stay contained, the *energy requirements of the external magnets are not required*.

Hence all that is required is the already modest amount of electricity to keep the plasma lit and a steady supply of hydrogen. Because the Safire plasma continues to run, and without the overhead of external magnets, abundant electricity can be harvested. This *does not mean* that Safire "puts out more energy than it takes in", this only means that the abundant electrical energy is being harvested from what *existing energy* is converted. This is *not* and also *no one claims* that this is somehow "free energy" nor "self-sustaining". Something that requires something external to it to continuously feed hydrogen is not self-sustaining. On this front, the Safire plasma team has only ever claimed (as far as I have seen) that they have a very efficient way to harvest usable electricity from Hydrogen ; the Safire team has never claimed that their Safire plasma chamber is or somehow could be "self-sustaining".

>> They talk about cold fusion as if it exists as well.

Cold fusion is a thing that scientifically exists. Perhaps what they have written in scientific terms, is some larger meme that you have confused the term "cold fusion" with, similar to "self-sustaining fusion-producing plasma" above.

>> These people either have no idea what they're talking about

The Safire team has created a novel plasma chamber where the plasma chamber has multiple layers and self-containing magnetic fields. If you have worked on a team that has created something similar, perhaps you know more about this topic than the Safire team, but if you haven't, they are speaking from real-world experience that they objectively do have.

Furthermore, please show me another team separate from the Safire team that has created a multi-layer plasma with self-containing magnetic fields documented to have done this before the Safire team on-record accomplished this. Pro tip: you can't.