skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
I really, really disagree with Jeff Atwood here. Jeff has interpreted "learn to code" with "become a programmer". They're not the same thing. I don't think that is what this meme is about at all.

Programming is logical thinking in practise. Programming is breaking a problem set down, thinking step by step through it, thinking of edge cases, and making it work. There is nothing wrong with Jeff's BASIC example, if that is where the mayor of NYC ends up.

There was once a time when books were only read and written by an elite group. Now everyone can read - and everyone can write. There are still the elite authors that write better than the rest of us. Just because everyone can write, doesn't mean everyone is trying to be a professional author.

Computers are a part of society. To function well in society, it's beneficial to understand a little about how they work, and how to make them do things. The essence of programming is making a computer do something more efficiently than you can.

Programming isn't just the advanced stuff - recursion, pointers, functional programming, or whatever. Maybe Jeff is too far down the rabbit hole to realise this, but most people don't know what programming even looks like. They don't know how we tell computers to do the things they do. Recently I was with a customer, making notes about changes I needed to make to their application. They asked me "Is that how you make it do that?". No - that was my TODO file. And these are people that work on computers all day, every day.

It's beneficial if marketing folk understand the basics of programming when they're doing web ads. It's useful that CAD engineers know the basics so they can automate AutoCAD. Its useful that financial accountants know basic programming so they can become more efficient with analysing data.

If the mayor of NYC wants to learn to program in his spare time, why the hell not? I bet there wouldn't be the same complaints if he wanted to learn how to surf.

edit: grammar
Maybe he just thinks it would be fun, wants to feel the joy of that first "Hello Gotham"? He certainly wouldn't be the first person coding for avocational reasons.
People who make and apply laws regarding software should understand how software works and is made. They could talk to experts instead, but to choose right experts they also need to understand how software works.

So maybe New York Mayor don't need to code, but IP lawyers that works on software cases, and politicians voting on software related law - yeah, I think they should.
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This is a great example. My brother in law is a chef. I asked for his scone recipe, and he said to throw in some sugar, flour and milk (or something like that, I'm not a chef). Mix it until it looks right. That's expertise.

I'm a lousy cook - but I can cook food if I follow instructions that have accurate measurements.

That doesn't mean I shouldn't learn to cook.
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For all X, it is always better (toknow X) than (not (toknow X)).

There are innumerably unpredictable circumstances that may arise in which it will prove useful.

Bureaucrats in general could all profit from some minimal understanding of programming if only to stop them saying things like: 'the computer says: no!'
Which means... it's time to take the focus away from what TechCrunch and Sequoia are doing, and back to the difficult and often obscure (if intrinsically rewarding, and often lucrative in the long term) campaign to improve one's technical skills through practice and hard work.

Ignore TechCrunch and Sequoia - yes please :-) However, I'm unsure about the rest of the advice.

This maybe just me - but most of the problems I've had when I started a company for the first time (and second, and ...) are with the business skills not the technical ones. Being better technically doesn't make me better at running a business, finding markets and channels, etc.

I see just as many businesses fail through lack of business chops as I do lack of technical chops.

The most effective learning I've got in that arena was from starting a business and failing miserably. There may be better ways to learn now - who knows. But I'm pretty certain just focusing on sharpening your technical saw isn't going to make you more likely to succeed.

Maybe starting a new business now, in the face of almost certain total and abject failure, is just what the doctor ordered :-)
I have no idea whether you are talking about Apple or Google.
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I should probably disagree. The point of code being a life skill is not that we want more people to write code on a day-to-day basis. You should think about teaching kids to paint, rather than teaching them to read. It's not because we want more painters or because painting makes you better at the job you do, but painting helps you to see things from a different (artistic) perspective, to appreciate certain joys and certain other techniques.

Sussman has gone on record with a talk titled, "Why Programming is a Good Medium For Expressing Poorly Understood and Sloppily Formulated Ideas." That's probably an everyday use of programming which I've not seen, and it's part of what people learn as one of these "background skills" in college: how to think of things precisely.

I still get a lot of people who are shocked when I teach them relativity. You mean it's not a bunch of mysticism about "mass is squared light energy"? You mean you can prove that this Lorentz transformation doesn't lead to paradoxes? You mean you can derive it with high-school geometry plus some simple axioms that I can clearly understand? The only part which is hard to get across is the causal structure of "light cones", because people don't think in intersecting cones. (I have had some success with calling them "expanding light bubbles," with some reference to supernova explosions.)

Coming back to clarity, and finding it, programming is a good way to pick up that habit, even if you don't code on a day-to-day basis.

There is of course one well-known disadvantage which goes unmentioned in this Coding Horror post: coders are disproportionately more likely to think of legal systems as made of immutable and strict laws. The idea that a judge is supposed to, y'know, judge the human costs of competing legal priorities, and make a decision which is both fair and in keeping with the laws as written -- this discretion seems to be missing. You see this as well with how coders approach pharmacists: it's as if pharmacy was no longer a medical discipline and was somehow relegated to counting pills. No, that's what we code the robots for. Stop equating people with robots.

But if we remain sensitive to the humanity of others, then being able to code probably functions to a net benefit, much like Jeff's example of plumbing does. I mean, there are still occasions where you need a professional, but everyone should have disassembled the pipes to their sink at some point in their life, just for the experience.
But was he a representative of Dell? If you hire a comedian, then does it become his responsibility to stick to your sensibilities? The onus should be on Dell and not on the comedian.

Moreover, since when are we supposed to interpret what a comedian says so literally? The comment that seems to be most offensive is "Thank god there's so few women in this business, keep up the good work!"
Taken sarcastically, that very statement would become an indictment of the tech industry for failing to maintain a gender balance. I am certain that if the same line had come from a lady, no one would have found it offensive.

Now, I am not saying that the comedian in question isn't misogynist. I know nothing about his personality. I am simply trying to play the devil's advocate. I just want to highlight that context and intention matter. Otherwise, Russel Peters would be in jail by now.

Also, why I am being downvoted to oblivion for raising a pretty reasonable point of discussion? In my mind, downvotes shouldn't be used as a tool for censorship, or to restrict discussion. It should be used for quality control more than anything else.
Cooking may not be the best analogy. What if everyone started learning to build bridges instead? Sure, the general population might benefit from knowing how bridges work and what loads they can take, but when a bunch of inexperienced, improperly educated bridge-builders start trying to create new ones because it pays well, we end up with dangerous bridges.

Jeff's article is trying to point out that while understanding code isn't a bad thing, coding isn't the most important part of writing software. Those who think it is end up writing code without purpose, something I consider as dangerous in the long term as shoddy bridges.
Just as an aside, you get free registration with App Hub as a student via DreamSpark (or at least you did about a year ago; I assume it's still the case.)
> It assumes that coding is the goal.

I don't think anyone is saying that (I hope). Instead we're telling people to learn to code as a means to better understand technology, and then use technology to your favor to improve your life. And when that happens, coding will naturally become more common in your life, even if indirectly (managing others who write code, but this time actually knowing what you're doing). "Coding" is just a more common part of the problem, which has a much deeper meaning. I tell everyone they should learn to code, not because I think they should be writing hundreds or thousands of lines per day like I do. But because they should better understand the world we live in. And learning to code will get you there faster.

Thinking we're telling people they should learn to code just for the sake of coding is completely missing the point. I tell everyone they should learn to code for the exact same reason I tell everyone they should learn science, politics and law. Your life will be better if you're scientifically literate and technologically literate because you'll better understand the world around you.

> can you explain to me how Michael Bloomberg would be better at his day to day job of leading the largest city in the USA if he woke up one morning as a crack Java coder?

That's the wrong question. You should be asking how can be better at his day job if he was technologically literate. And I'm pretty sure anyone here can think of many different awesome ways anyone at all could be better at their job if they knew how to better use technology around them in their favor. Let alone a major of a metropolis.

> so please pardon my skepticism of the sentiment that "everyone can learn to code".

This is a separate problem. I think everyone should learn how to code, how science, politics and law works. For their own sake. Their life will be better if they do. Implying they shouldn't try because they're not good enough is analogous to saying most people shouldn't vote because they're not competent enough to choose the right candidates. The point is, it's in their interest to do so. Now is it in our interest that they do so? And that's a whole separate issue I would really rather not get into.
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I don't understand the distinction you raise in the first paragraph. Coding is programming. Just because everyone can divide doesn't mean everyone is trying to be a mathematician, but I think everyone should (at least have the opportunity to) learn long division. Programming may not be the fourth "R", but maybe "Research" is!
That tumblr link is a blinding endichtment on everything you seem to stand for. Can you see this?

Can you see that the mountains of scorn you heap on 'men in tech' represent the very landscape of sexism you rail against?

As a 'male in tech' and a husband, and a son, and a father of two girls... as a friend and a collegue or as a boss, this shit has moved from mildly aggravating to outright hurtful.

Women in tech: it's not all men. It's some men, don't sink to their level, please lead by example instead.
There's a lot of code that doesn't benefit from state machines at all.

But when code does profit from a state machine, it's often easy to recognize from the many 'if' statements that check several flags (like ' if (seen_input && !eof && ..)')
All equally valid points. For me I find that the quality of results is what still draws me back. I use DDG for most things these days (as it's especially good for quickly finding repos on GitHub etc), but if I have anything less certain (like a caching question) then I often find myself using Google.
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Brazil and Singapore could also make a case that they've done a lot for Eduardo Saverin and that he owes them something. Should he pay taxes in all three countries?
Agree with both sides. The meme of everyone needs to learn code needs context.

Should everyone have an understanding- probably.
Should everyone build a public bit of code - probably not.

Coding as a hobby is great but making strategic decisions still requires experts.
One of my favorite quotes about patriotism, comes from Mark Cuban:

The Most Patriotic Thing You Can Do: Bust your ass and get rich. Make a boatload of money. Pay your taxes.

So I certainly get the sentiment behind the article, but this is too much.

I cringed at the very end, with the blatant attacks on Singapore that made this piece seem more xenophobic than I could tolerate.

What an unbelievably unprofessional piece. I realize this is a personal blog, but I still wouldn't expect to see it on zdnet.

The fact of the matter is - whether you agree with his decision or not - Eduardo is a Brazilian who lives in Singapore, and has lived in the United States.

Who are we to decide where he belongs? Is he paying taxes to Brazil? Should he?
The trouble with these statistics is there are some rather variable gaps of time between the releases, which makes it hard to gauge growth without doing more research.
When I said programmer, I meant a professional programmer - as an occupation.
> the mayor of New York City will hopefully spend his time doing the job taxpayers paid him to do instead. According to the Office of the Mayor home page, that means working on absenteeism programs for schools, public transit improvements, the 2013 city budget, and … do I really need to go on?

Being a Mayor means it is his job, not his life, outside of work it's not our business to tell him he's wasting time regardless of whether he's learning to code or reading the first Harry Potter book over and over again.
The problem is that coding is still too hard. It should be easier to automate things, and then even the major of NY could benefit. Coding should be as easy as using a computer.

In fact I have argued that installing apps is kind of like coding for noobs. It is modding their world in a very primitive way, by installing functions on their phone. If it was easier to fine tune those functions, it would be a net win.
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I think the whole everyone should learn to code this is right, but a little ahead of its time. A little like saying that peasant farmers in the bronze age should learn to read and write. While 100% literacy is now acknowledge as a good thing it took a while to get here. A farmer these days absolutely needs to read and write. But a bronze age farmer? Not so much.

I personally think that one day it will be impossible to function in society without the ability to manipulate and query data. To use Jeff's example, as Mayor of a large city there must be mountains of data that might be relevant to every single decision that is made, and the mayors who can query and gain insight into that data quickly (without having to write a spec and get someone else to do it for them) will eventually be more successful, to the point where all mayors will be expected to be able to manipulate data.

There are a number of things that need to happen before that though:

Firstly, the tools need to get a LOT better. I put our current development tools somewhere a kin to Egyptian hieroglyphics. You can do basic things like record the births and deaths of kings, but could Shakespeare have written what he did in hieroglyphics? I'm guessing not. (Although I bet someone somewhere has done a translation!)

Next, this vision of the future is based on the amount of data in the world getting a LOT bigger. To the point where intuition or past experience simply can't compete with the people who are mining the data.

Politics will probably be one of the last professions to convert, the cultural change will take a while to work though. The first professions will be the kind of things where Excel is used heavily at the moment (you could argue that Excel is a programming environment). Professions like Marketing, Manufacturing (which will become predominately robot driven at some point) and Medicine (which will become heavily influenced by generic programming) will probably be early adopters. But one day, I think "programming" in the sense of giving a "machine" a series of logical instructions to follow, will be universal and it will simply be impossible to live a normal life without that skill.

EDIT: Fixed ironic typo ;)
I never had a problem with Google results. The only problem i always have is when there is not enough content about a topic. These are the times when i try another search engine, but the results are often worse then. I make around 20k searches a year with Google and i know how to find stuff with it, if there is something to find.

Google is free and Bing/DDG/Yandex make nothing better that would make me switch. There is not really a problem to solve when it comes to find available stuff. Quora and Stack Overflow try to solve a problem Google isn't good at. Getting answers to stuff when there is nothing to find out there.
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Hi gwillen,
well, it seems like there are people tolerating it, otherwise SellAring wouldn't exist. Same for push notification networks like LeadBolt and Airpush.
I totally understand that you're mad though, a cellphone is a very private device. Do you personally feel that the notification bar should be considered equally personal as the space before someone picks up?

Best regards
Johannes
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Reinstating HTML to its former glory: when mixins become skins
Ask HN: Looking for an open-source Grooveshark clone I can host myself.
Does anyone know of a piece of software that I can put on my server, point at a folder of music and then be able to play it from my web browser wherever I am, complete with playlists, etc? If not, would you be interested in this as I'll write such a piece of software myself if it doesn't exist.
http://millionshort.com popped up a while back and I've actually found it incredibly useful, especially for any topics more likely to be found on little personal sites.
Perian used to be me first download on every Mac, but 10.7 does not let me hide the file preview (top right) in column view anymore. If I scroll through a list of video files and hit something complicated (like MKV) the Finder just hangs. Has this bothered anyone else? Or is detail view more common in the wild?

I love the VLC redesign though, and it arrived just in time, so I'm happy.
That's a fairly common meme and a complete misunderstanding of the motives of corporations.

Companies do lots of things that don't immediately look like profit-gaining moves to investors.

Actually, put another way, do you think that Google is not a corporation, and instead a basket of goodwill, since they market things as 'open'?
I once spent a couple of hours writing a bash script that edited my /etc/hosts file (e.g. resolve facebook.com to 127.0.0.1), and then ran that using crontab to allow some breaks during the day.

It was fun, but then I had to go back to work. ;-)
Not to mention the fact that the tax payers don't pay Bloomberg a salary to do his job, he does it for free.
I don't think the person using the WiFi to infringe would "get off" in any case. Just that the WiFi owner would be guilty too.

A better analogy is: if you leave your car unlocked and it gets stolen, are you also (besides the thief) liable for any damages that the thief might do with it?
Except in cases where a little knowledge of the subject is more dangerous than no knowledge.

(But I disagree with the post, teaching people to program would be a net gain I think but I'm sure most people won't bother so no danger of ever finding out.)
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Industries often have sayings that turn out to be relevant only in the short-term. It used to be that you needed to tackle a "technically difficult problem"; but many startups have succeeded by building something that people want without creating new technology but "executing" well. He's suggesting we cycle between technology and applications of it.

Obviously we need both tech and apps, but is there evidence in the past of them occurring in cycles?

That said, it's true that everyone is complaining that there's nothing really new, that most apps are trivial. And of course, in the last few years bandwidth/browser/cloud has gotten good enough for web-apps to go mainstream and cause modernization across many industries, which requires domain knowledge and "execution".

I'd love opportunity to be in "enabling technologies and platforms" - but it seems innovators in software infrastructure (libraries, languages, middleware) today often get nothing. Exceptions from the past: databases, postscript. Please prove me wrong!
The one more thing that I really, really recommend for anyone to try is Flux. I really wish the iPad had it.

And then there are lots of "default writes" that I do on every new computer… :(
This is silly and makes things way more complicated than they need to be.

We have HTML tags, to which we can apply attributes directly via blah=blah syntax

Or we can add attributes by making a style attribute, and using css syntax inside of it.

Or we can have a space separated list of class names, and have attributes applied to an element externally by a CSS stylesheet.

Or we can have an ID, and apply attributes using javascript.

We can apply attributes with http headers, and the browser can negotiate the resource with http accepts and quality parameters.

We have video, audio, and object tags that can all have child elements.

We have query parameters and fragment selectors, and path parameters, and post parameters and accept parameters for negotiating and selecting content from a server. (Designed to include ampersands which have to be entity encoded when used in HTML!)

We have all these sophisticated overlapping complicated mechanisms for attaching attributes to elements in a webpage. We have huge pieces of software for parsing through this poorly thought through mess.

But no, not a single one of these is good enough for this problem. LET'S INVENT A NEW SYNTAX AND ADD TO THE HEAP OF IDIOCY.
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The Story of Send
Why children learn to code: the challenge of living askance to instruction