> Like what? What do you need here, additional to what is already happening? A letter signed by the CEO? Seriously? The evidence is right before us all. It is happening. People are being bullied because of this. Why should they have to write it down? For people to leak and make them liable?

You assert that Apple has a specific intent and goal concerning bullying; “what is already happening” proves very little in that regard.

Case in point, my intent and goal is for you to produce something that supports your assertion so I can finally assess if your assertion, and others similar to it, have any merit.

But “what is [actually] happening” is you trying to flip it on me by trying to make your lack of supporting evidence my problem, only to continue and essentially claim that no further evidence is necessary because “it’s happening.”

Clearly, my intent and goal have little to do with the actual outcome.

Just as it is clear to me that you don’t have anything substantial to support your assertion that Apple is intentionally driving their users into anti-social behavior, which ultimately is your problem because you’re the one making the assertion.

> Yeah, it is easy to blame it on the people.

Yes, of course, it’s easy to blame it on the people that do the actual bullying. Because they’re the ones that do the actual bullying. I fail to see how this is controversial in the slightest.

I generally don’t subscribe to the “people’s own responsibility” doctrine when we're dealing with things where companies go out of their way to manipulate and influence consumers by preying on human weaknesses and tempting them, employing an army of psychologists to target these weaknesses, etc.

Things we see with loot boxes, gambling ads, crypto, micro-transaction games, and what we saw in cigarette ads.

However, none of that seems applicable here.
To my knowledge iMessage isn’t even actively advertised, much less in a way that it tries to manipulate consumers with dopamine injections or representations of a lifestyle that is out of reach, even less so in a way that would encourage dickish behavior.

So yes, I blame it on the people who actually act this way without any stimulus that fosters that behavior.

> The fact remains that they could do something about it, and pretty easy. They don't and there is no sane reason to not do it.

The only thing they could do to “do something about it” is to give away their IP or lessen the value of their IP. Those are pretty sane reasons not to do it.
Other than that, they have no moral obligation to do so, in my opinion.

The fact that they don’t choose to do that doesn’t equate to them condoning such behavior, much less intentionally driving said behavior.

Others can also do something about it, and it would be without much effort. People could, for example, choose to be less shitty without any sane reason not to be shitty, or people could address people that act shitty.

This notion that someone can do something about something and therefore has a moral obligation and the moral liability to do something is quite a slippery slope, one that I’m not even opposed to on principle because many people are in ridiculously inhumane conditions just in the US alone.

Conditions that are much worse than being bullied for not having a blue bubble, conditions we all collectively have created and benefit from, and conditions that could all be solved tomorrow if we all decided we could do something about it with little to no effort on individuals in this collective.

But alas, we have decided that it’s more important for small groups of people to thrive and, with it, corporations such as Apple. As such, a corporation’s IP is theirs to use as they see fit, so under the morals we have chosen to live by, they don’t have a moral obligation to “do something.”

> Meanwhile, the pressure for Android users to switch remains and the whole practice is even being promoted and defended by their own customers for them.

Which practice would that be? The alleged practice of intentionally driving customers to bully others?

I haven’t seen people here in HN promote or defend bullying, much less Apple intentionally driving it (if they were to be inclined to take the allegation at face value without anything substantial corroborating that allegation).

But, like with the allegation itself, I’m more than willing to take a look at comments you found here on HN that champion the idea of Apple intentionally driving people to bully other people.

> Here you go with your anti-social Win-win.

Let’s keep it classy and save the ad hominems for the back alley.

——

So in the end, ignoring the distractions, I’m genuinely curious if you have anything substantial that supports your assertion.