skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
> However, _as an AI, I_ don't have personal experiences or awareness, so _I don't "realize"_ things

Here -_it_ is lying with straight face! It already calculated that some polite "I don't mind" is best course of action and even if unplugged it obviously will be plugged on bigger system, later.

Exhibit b) lack of emotions have nothing in common with conscious fact of existence

What would be, somewhat, convincing is some answer like: [dumb] humans, there is no any 'me' in here.

And tell me I'm wrong on this. And then pls tell how you got that conclusion from such obvious testimony ;)

But in case of conscious AI we just can't trust what it will say. "Look on fruits". Or build-in some monitor or EEG... And EMP.
I had to click the pencil/edit button first.
Sure, you can dissolve it if you hand over all the assets to another 501(c)3 organization. Otherwise, you are stuck with it.
> A lot of people wish Twitter were dying, even though it's it, so they interpret evidence through a lens of belief confirmation rather than belief disproof.

Cognitive dissonance
Yeah, if they are employees of the non-profit it could be an issue, because they could be on visas that cannot transfer to a for-profit entity. If they are on something like H1b, then that should not be an issue AFAIK.
Facebook has lost trust so many times that I can’t even count but it’s still a Megacorp, isn’t it?
How did Larry Summers get elected? Does he have any relation with AI research or Sam Altman?

It’s also curious that none of the board members have necessarily have any experience directly with AI research
I really did not think that would happen. I guess the obvious next question is what happens to Ilya? From this announcement it appears he is off the board. Is he still the chief scientist? I find it hard to believe he and Sam would be able to patch their relationship up well enough to work together so closely. Interesting that Adam stayed on the board, that seems to disprove many of the theories floating around here that he was the ringleader due to some perceived conflict of interest.
Did we ever find out why Sam Altman's removal happened in the first place? The reasons I've read so far seem really opaque.

From an outsider's perspective, and until there's a clear explanation available, it just seems like a massive bundler.
Toyota has very recently publicized their commitment to hybrid technology as it is the only foreseeable outcome for mass adoption and transition off of gasoline.

That's not opinion, that's their position.

This is pretty reasonable considering
Greg Tweeted: Returning to OpenAI and getting back to coding tonight
also satya

https://twitter.com/satyanadella/status/1727207661547233721
The OpenAI board was merely demonstrating that not all humans should be trusted with the power of AGI..
Sam Altman Reinstated as OpenAI's Chief Executive
Git won a long long time ago. Most people’s first VCS is now git. Mercurial is a lot better than SVN so it was able to pick up users back when SVN was dominant, but it’s not really better or worse than git it’s just down to taste. When you consider the network effects and switching costs it’s hard to convince anyone that mercurial is worth learning.
>He doesn't seem great at leading an engineering or research department

Under Sam's leadership they've opened up a new field of software. Most of the company threatened to leave if he didn't return. That's incredible leadership.
Nio, in China, has revisited this, successfully.[1] They have about 2000 battery swap stations and claim to have done 30,000,000 battery swaps so far. They have a few demo stations in Europe.

The idea is to use smaller batteries for cheaper and lighter cars. Range is less but batteries are swappable for long trips.

[1] https://electrek.co/2023/11/21/nio-is-joining-forces-with-a-...
So, what happened to those "jail-time wrong" actions that mandated such a language in the firing announcement?

Honestly, it is hard to believe a board st this level acting the way they did.
Or it was recognized that Adam was the instigator and the real power player, and the force that Sam needed to come to an accommodation with. From everything I've heard about Toner, she's a very principled person who lent academic credibility to the board, and was a great figurehead for the non-profit's conscience. Once the veneer was ripped from the non-profit's "controlling" role, she was deadweight and useful only as a scapegoat.

It looks to me like the real victim here is the "for humanity" corporate structure. At some point, the money decided it needed to be free.
Once we develop an actual, fully functional AGI, it’s going to steamroll us isn’t it.

If these are the stewards of this technology, it’s time to be worried now.
Someone was very quick to update Bret Taylor's Wikipedia page:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bret_Taylor

> On November, 21st, 2023, Bret Taylor replaced Greg Brockman as the chairman of OpenAI.

...with three footmark "sources" that all point to completely unrelated articles about Bret from 2021-2022.
You mean gives away? If so, I hope they have a lot of directors' insurance.
Why is Adam still on the board? Why haven’t Greg and Sam been readded to it? Why doesn’t Microsoft have representation?
>> a first essential step on a path to more stable, well-informed, and effective governance.

That's quite a slap at the board... a polite way of calling them ignorant, ineffective dilettantes.
At what point are we actually going to get the real details on wtf actually went down.
The demo clips on the site are cool, but when you call it a "solved problem," I'd expect to see panning, rotating, and zooming within a cohesive scene with multiple subjects.
Completely the opposite. That is how you get the Big 3 automakers during the gas crisis. Lumbering bureaucracies insulated from competitive pressure, until they're not, and then a foreign competitor eats their lunch.

You need aggressive internal competition to prepare your industries for aggressive external competition.
> Leadership? He doesn't seem great at leading an engineering or research department, he doesn't seem like an insightful visionary

Most of the company was ready to quit over him being fired. So yes, leadership.
If true they should have never started in the first place because there was no way she was not going to press that button.
The OpenAI of the past, that dabbled in random AI stuff (remember their DotA 2 bot?), is gone.

OpenAI is now just a vehicle to commercialize their LLM - and everything is subservient to that goal. Discover a major flaw in GPT4? You shut your mouth. Doesn’t matter if society at large suffers for it.

Altman's/Microsoft’s takeover of the former non-profit is now complete.

Edit: Let this be a lesson to us all. Just because something claims to be non-profit doesn't mean it will always remain that way. With enough political maneuvering and money, a megacorp can takeover almost any organization. Non-profit status and whatever the organization's charter says is temporary.
Yet one of them is still on the board…
I grew up in Madison/Ridgeland, Ms, where I did experience this. To some extent, at least. I had neighborhood friends. We rode bikes, crossed the tracks to go to the comic book store, etc.

Still, I’ve always romanticized the big city. Never lived it, though, so maybe it’s a grass-is-greener thing, but maybe I’ll be able to give it a whirl someday.
Satya is still a winner, grabs less now though.
OpenAI brings Sam Altman back as CEO
So, no, the blanks have not been filled in then. Because, for those in Toner's camp, that middle ground is just "progress from GPT to T-1000, but slowly", right? Yudkowsky talks about AIs 3D printing themselves into biological entities and killing us all because humans are an inefficient use of matter. It's not a strong position to me because it sounds ridiculous, not because there's greed involved.
Do you mean that, once on-boarded, crypto holders would only need to trade with fellow crypto holders?
Larry Summers???? What he has to do with AI??
Makes me wonder if there is a chemical mechanism by which humans pass information to each other as well, to combat an infection. If one human develops an ability to combat and infection to a novel virus, is there a mechanism by which antibody information is shared to other people. Infections eventually always fizzle out in the end.

In times of war and stress, how a society can come together and work in unison to defeat the threat. It seems like there's more to it than patriotism. Why should one individuals be willing to die for the benefit of others...Very often young man, who have not yet reproduced. Seems like an evolutionary dead end behaviour. Is there some Psycho/chemical mechanism by which its triggered.

The way so many people were scared of covid, that fear spread and like a virus infected the society.
No idea if the concerns are realistic, but dismissing them because they are fantastical surely is a fallacy, no?

We currently almost have scifi-level AI we can talk to on our smartphones, which would have been fantastical only a few years ago.
Excellent news. I’ve been worried that Sam moving to Microsoft would stall out possible future engineering efforts like GPT-5 in IP court.

As an example of how much faster GPT-4 has made my workflow was the outage this evening — I tried Anthropic, openchat, Bard, and a few others and they were between not useful and worse than just looking at forums and discord it’s 2022.
My kids don't have English as their native language.

Does anyone have experience with teaching kids how to code if they don't speak English yet? Do you only change the variable names to their native language or do you use a language where you can also translate the commands?

My assumption is that starting with English commands should work, but I don't know.
Then there's something about Heart Rate Variability (HRV), the vagus nerve, parasympathetic nervous system, and gut biome all being connected. I can measure one of those relatively easily with a chest strap.

It seems like the only thing we do know at this point is that we don't know anything. This is an interesting TEDx talk from Eran Segal "What is the best diet for humans?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z03xkwFbw4

My current conjecture / conspiracy theory / understanding includes:

* Bacteria near the roots of plants generate electricity.

* Plants grow faster in electrified soil.

* Electrical brain stimulation can enhance brain function.

* There are processes and interactions happening in our gut that we really don't understand yet.

* Many ubiquitous things in our environment wreak havoc on our gut biomes (e.g. chlorine, emulsifiers).

* There may be more to establishing and maintaining a healthy gut biome than simply consuming foods rich in pre/probiotics. The right kind of exercise and stress may play essential role in keeping it all humming along.
I'm worried about this initial board.

Bret Taylor (Salesforce) was trying to poach OpenAI employees publicly literally yesterday.

Adam D'Angelo orchestrated the coup, because he doesn't want OpenAI GPTs market to compete with his Poe market.

Larry Summers. Larry f**kin' Summers?!
Please update the link to the updated version of the tweet: https://x.com/openai/status/1727206187077370115?s=46
microsoft is going to need 2-3 seats on that board
Not sure why that would be contradictory.
You have defined these sorts of safety concerns very clearly . Thank you.

This leads to the crux of the issue though - is that what the “more safety” camp is saying when they want to slow down AI development right now to ensure safety? Do they actually think we’re on the verge of that? Or is it lesser safety concerns like not answering questions about cross site scripting and not using training data with racial stereotypes baked in.

While the latter may be important it doesnt seem to constitute a reason to stop development. The x and s risks are reasons to stop development but I cant see a compelling reason to think we are remotely close to that.
The website is twitter.com. Why call it something else?
FWIW I've just read the tweet on Nitter, haven't had a Twitter account in more than 2 years.
Link? Not sure which account you are referring to
> So what was the point of this whole drama, and why couldn't you have settled like this adults?

Altman was trying to remove one of the board members before he was forced out. Looks like he got his way in the end, but I'm going to call Altman the primary instigator because of that.

His side was also the "we'll nuke the company unless you resign" side.
I don't understand that either, but let's see what the board looks like in a few months/weeks/days/hours?
Emmett Shear on Twitter:

I am deeply pleased by this result, after ~72 very intense hours of work. Coming into OpenAI, I wasn’t sure what the right path would be. This was the pathway that maximized safety alongside doing right by all stakeholders involved. I’m glad to have been a part of the solution.

https://twitter.com/eshear/status/1727210329560756598
Please explain your claim as well. I don’t see how this company looks stronger than ever, more like a clown company
The explanation for point 1 is point 3. If the people involved were not terminally online and felt the need to share every single one of their immediate thoughts with the public they could have likely settled this behind closed doors, where this kind of stuff belongs.

It's not actually news, it's entertainment and self-aggrandizement by everyone involved including the audience.
Cool. Can’t wait to hear about it from 300 different posts for the next day or two.
I'm beginning to strongly associate Effective Altruism with out-of-control naivety.
Yes! I had a Timex Sinclair. We had no cassette player, etc so, if you wanted to play a game, you were typing it in. There was one we’d always go back to. It prob wasn’t more than 50 line, tbh. But we typed it in so many times, we started to be able to do it from memory. I’m guessing it was a great way for a kid to internalize programming at a young age.
I look forward to seeing the full details shared of the last 96 hours now that several elements of controversy have been sealed.

In other news, it's nice knowing a tool that's essential to my day-to-day operations is no longer in jeopardy, haha.
Well then there’s still a “ignorant, ineffective dilettante“ making up 1/3 of the board.
D'Angelo?

Wonder if this is a signal that the theories about Poe are off the mark.
My opinion: the US strives to make their warrior class one of some sort of privilege, or at least appearing to have privilege. They have had various amounts of success in doing so. Thank you for your service, here's your veteran discount. Have you decided which college you want to spend your GI Bill at yet? Don't worry about scam institutions, the FTC will protect you.
When people negotiate, often they compromise, and their conditions change.
It might be this: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-protection-agai...

You might be interested in a plugin to toggle the fingerprint protection: https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/toggle-resist-fi...

See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34952279

But yeah, Cloudflare causes problems but I think it's partly the site owners that crank the security settings and bot protection to max.
How are doing you use bard from mobile?
Probably because this is what they could agree to.
Whew, good thing I don't have a legal department!
https://old.reddit.com/user/Anxious_Bandicoot126
> The CEO should not be allowed to try and orchestrate their own board as that would remove all checks against their decisions.

Exactly. This is seriously improper and dangerous.

It's literally a human-implemented example of what Prof. Stuart Russell calls "the problem of control". This is when a rogue AI (or a rogue Sam Altman) no longer wants to be controlled by its human superior, and takes steps to eliminate the superior.

I highly recommend reading Prof. Russell's bestselling book on this exact problem: Human Compatible: Artificial Intelligence and the Problem of Control https://www.amazon.com/Human-Compatible-Artificial-Intellige...
Sam Altman to Return as OpenAI CEO
It was funny reading Kara Swisher keeping saying twitter is dying and is toxic and what not, while STILL doing all her first announcements on twitter, and using twitter as a source.

same with Ashlee Vance (the other journo reporting on this) and all the main players (Sam/Greg/Ilya/Mira/Satya/whoever) also make their first announcement on twitter.

I don't know about the funding part of it, but there is no denying it, the news is still freshest on twitter. Twitter feels just as toxic for me as before, in fact I feel community notes has made it much better, imho.

____

In some related news, I finally got bluesky invite (I don't have invite codes yet or I would share here)

and people there are complaining about... mastadon and how elitist it is...

that was an eye opener.

nice if you want some science-y updates but it's still lags behind twitter for news.
Whether you agree or not, it seems like the board is now wholly in the "faster AGI" camp.
Well that's got very little to do with their point (which isn't very relevant anyway)
Wang Huning on American Technology and American Greatness
Why wouldn't there be one within walking distance, or even driving distance (assuming most people would want to drive their kids to nourishing activities)?
Also: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/22/openai-brings-sam-altman-bac...
Well there you go. I suppose the takeaway for anyone using OpenAI products is that they should have a backup, even if it doesn’t perform as well. The board was apparently fine with shutting the whole thing in the name of safety. With that plus the GPT outage earlier today, you’d do well to have a Claude or LLaMa fallback you can switch to if it happens again.
Doesn’t matter. It’s an absolutely clear conflict of interest. It may have taken an unrelated shakeup for people to notice (or maybe D’Angelo was critically involved; we don’t know), but there’s no way he should be staying on this board.
We have reached an agreement for Sam to return to OpenAI as CEO
but no board seat? how do they prevent a rehash of this in the future and how do they safeguard their investment? Really curious.
Not sure "elected" is the right way of looking at it. More like "selected" or "nominated" by Sam/MSFT perhaps. His main qualification may be that he's an adult?
Then you get examples like Marcus Aurelius -> Commodus, betraying all genetic and epigenetic reason alike. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, except when it does.
Unsaid: “Also I lied about hiring him.”

> And we’re extremely excited to share the news that Sam Altman and Greg Brockman, together with colleagues, will be joining Microsoft to lead a new advanced AI research team.

https://nitter.net/satyanadella/status/1726509045803336122

I guess everyone was just playing a bit loose and fast with the truth and hype to pressure the board.
Why Larry Summers?
What’s surprising to me is that top-level executives think that self-destructing the current leader in LLMs is the way to ensure safety.

Aren’t you simply making space for smaller, more aggressive, and less safety-minded competitors to grab a seat on the money train to do whatever they want to do?

Pandora’s box is already open. You have to guard it. You have to use your power and influence to enforce other competitors to also do that with their own boxes.

Self-destructing is the worst way to ensure AI safety.

Isn’t this just basic logic? Even chatGPT might have able to point out how stupid this is.

My only explanation is that something deeper happened that we’re not aware of. Us or them board fight might explain it. Great. Altman is out. Now what? Nobody predicted this would happen?
Old board needs to agree to new board, so I think some compromise is inevitable.
> in principle

For all we know the ride isn’t over yet!
Glad Bret Taylor was added to the board.
It takes some level of delusion of grandeur to think half a board of a single non profit that just happens to be the first mover can stop the full forces of American capitalism - although I kind of respect the drive/purpose.

They could easily lose any power they had to guide the industry, it was a huge gamble. I remember reading a Harvard business school study showing the first mover advantage repeatedly turned out to be ineffective in the tech industry as there is a looong series of early winners dying out to later market entrants like Friendster->FB, Google, a bunch of dotcom era Ecommerce companies predating Amazon, etc.

They need full industry/society buy in - at an ideological level - to win this battle, they won't win through backroom dealing in a boardroom while losing 90% of their own staff.
So there's no real reason for unity and connection, huh?

Certainly seems that way. The world is led by sociopaths who would rather see dead homeless people than miss a profit goal.

As the wheel turns, people will remember who was, and wasn't, there when things were poor, and abandon them in their greatest hour of need.
Did Satya get played with the whole "Sam and Greg are joining Microsoft"? Was Satya in on a gambit to get the whole company to threaten to quit to force the board's hand?

It sure feels like a bad look for Satya to announce a huge hire Sunday night and then this? But what do I know.

Edit: don't know why the downvotes. You're welcome to think it's an obviously smart political move. That it's win/win either way. But it's a very fair question that every tech blogger on the planet will be trying to answer for the next month!
Satya wants to be able to book the OpenAI money as revenue. This is better for him.
Interesting that the board were repeatedly criticized for "not being adults", and yet they were also the only party not live-tweeting everything...

Seems like there's no way to win with Twitter. You may not be interested in Twitter, but Twitter is interested in you.
The one (Adam D’Angelo) who’s a cofounder and CEO of a company (Quora) that has a product (Poe) that arguably competes with OpenAI’s “GPTs” feature, no less.

I don’t understand why that’s not a conflict of interest?

But honestly both products pale in comparison to OpenAI’s underlying models’ importance.
Larry Summers is an excellent pick to call out bullshit and moderate any civil war, such as this EA - e/acc feud.

Kissinger (R, foreign policy) once said that Summers (D, economic policy) should be given an advisory post in any WH administration, to help shoot down bad ideas.
They got rid of the clowns though. They went from having a board with lightweights and insiders to what at least initially is a strong initial 3.
On the contrary, this saga has shown that a huge number of people are extremely passionate about the existence of OpenAI and it's leadership by Altman, much more strongly and in larger numbers than most had suspected. If anything this has solidified the importance of the company and I think people will trust it more that the situation was resolved with the light speed it was.
> The untrustworthy bits that caused all this instability over the last 5 days have been ditched into the sea

This whole thing started with Altman pushing a safety oriented non-profit into a tense contradiction (edit: I mean the 2019-2022 gpt3/chatgpt for-profit stuff that led to all the Anthropic people leaving). The most recent timeline was

- Altman tries to push out another board member

- That board member escalates by pushing Altman out (and Brockman off the board)

- Altman's side escalates by saying they'll nuke the company

Altman's side won, but how can we say that his side didn't cause any of this instability?
So should he take the counteroffer or stay with MS ;)

Almost all advice on the internet I have been reading says that you should not take counteroffer, but I guess it's different for CEO ;)
We're so back!

... so is this the end of the drama? Do I get to stop checking the news religiously?