skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
> That post specifically said there are use cases where NCAs protect IP. You highlighting when they are used elsewhere doesn’t negate that point.

I consider my position (employers can and should use other mechanisms to go after employees that _really_ stealing their IP instead of forcing NCAs on every random McDonalds employee or even junior tech IC) valid reply to position stated by OP. I stand by my words.

> And there are significant cases on the news where an employee steals trade secrets and takes them to a competitor (see Levandowski among others).

Levandowski example proves my point though since he did it in a state that doesn't enforce NCAs and Google found the way to go after him.

> It comes across like you have an axe to grind rather than making a thoughtful point.

That ad hominem was uncalled for.
Scientists create wireless charger that can stay safely in human body
Well, the deal is indeed they advertise to me. But they may not tell "you pay with your privacy or your money". That's the law. There are other forms of advertising that are not based on my private data. Those forms of advertising pay less? That's the problem of Meta, not mine.
There can exist an inherent delusion within elements of a company, that if left unchallenged, can persist. An agreement for instance, can seem airtight because it's never challenged, but falls apart in court. The OpenAI fallacy was that non-profit principals were guiding the success of the firm, and when the board decided to test that theory, it broke the whole delusion. Had it not fully challenged Altman, the board could've kept the delusion intact long enough to potentially pressure Altman to limit his side-projects or be less profit minded, since Altman would have an interest to keep the delusion intact as well. Now the cat is out of the bag, and people no longer believe that a non-profit who can act at will is a trusted vehicle for the future.
https://twitter.com/ilyasut/status/1726590052392956028?s=20
Just don’t try to use it with Paper.
Bombs and Emissions
The source for that (https://archive.ph/OONbb - WSJ), as far as I can understand, made no claim that MS owns IP to GPT, only that they have access to it's weights and code.
Dr. Emily Thompson: personalized scams via ChatGPT
Articel about this experiment https://www-investigace-cz.translate.goog/ai-chatgpt-manipul... (in Czech, translated by Google Translate)
Naive is too soft a word. How can you be so smart and so out of touch at the same time?
> There's no obligation to read things about yourself.

If only it was that simple.

The internet mob will happily harass your friends and family too, for something they feel you did wrong.

And on top of that are people in the mob who feel compelled to take real world action.

It is actually dangerous, to be the focus point of the anger of any large group of people online.
It's really not that hard. Under GDPR you have a right to privacy, and companies can't demand you give it up as part of some kind of condition to gain access to their service.
Sounds a lot like MS wants to have OpenAI but without a boards that considers pesky things like morals.
This is just stupid enough to be the product of a human.
It's almost like a ChatGPT hallucination. Where will this all go next? It seems like HN is melting down.
"Just try to get at least one paying side job where you can charge a reasonable hourly rate"

Ay, there's the rub.
You can't directly do a sleep in Javascript because it runs in the same thread as the UI - it would block the user from interacting with the page. This is effectively a sleep because after 5 seconds it's running the code in the passed-in function (not firing an event). The code in the function then resolves a promise, which runs other functions that can be specified later by what called the one using setTimeout.
Honestly, I feel like pretty low. That said, I kind of love the dystopian sci-fi that paints... So I'm going to go ahead and hope you're right haha
When I read that Sam and Greg joined Microsoft I assume the two had already been in talks with Microsoft for some time now.

I assumed it was their entertaining offers from Microsoft that got Sam the ax from the OpenAI board.
It's hard to argue anti-trust when all these browsers are based on Chromium - which is maintained in part by Google, Microsoft, Opera, Vivaldi, Intel, ARM, and Canonical plus several volunteers.
It’s not always as easy. E.g. some small business owners must either maintain a social media presence on popular platforms or lose a significant part of their profits.

Having all users protected by default sounds ideal to me.
> Ironically they would’ve had a better outcome if they just asked GPT-4 and followed its advice.

Perhaps they did but it was hallucinating at the time? /s?
There’s one angle of the whole thing that I haven’t yet seen discussed on HN. I wonder if Sam’s sister’s accusations towards him some time ago could have played any role in this.

But then, I would expect MS to have done their due diligence.

So, basically, I guess I’m just interested to know what were the reasons why the board decided to oust their CEO out of the blue on a Friday evening.
I know what makes even less sense than crafting policies for an undefinable category.

Giving law enforcement (DEA) the power to declare medical policy for an entire nation and enforcement powers for the policies it creates.
Beyond availability, anyone have issues with getenv_s?
Did Microsoft not have representation on the board of a company they put $13b in?
MSFT triggered the situation at hand. Sure it may be to salvage their 10B investment but that doesn't preclude funny business.
> deep misalignment about goals

Did... gpt-5 made the decision?
1. So no ban? SF to NY is about 2900 miles. Wikipedia says "Generally, trade-in vehicles must get a weighted combined average rating of 18 or fewer miles per gallon" to qualify for the Car Allowance Rebate System. The EPA says there's about 8.9kg of co2 per gallon of gas, which means driving such a distance would emit approximately 1434kg of carbon. On the other hand Google flights says the same trip by direct flight only emits around 400kg, depending on the airline.

2. I'm not really sure why a ban is needed when mandated sequestration will have the same effect, and won't kill half the travel industry.
If your job as a CEO is to keep the company running it seems like the only way to do that was hire them back because look at the company now it's essentially dead unless the board resigns and with how stupid the board is they might not lol.

So her move wasn't stupid at all. She obviously knew people working there respected the leadership of the company.

If 550 people leave OpenAI you might as well just shut it down and sell the IP to Microsoft.
How many startups will now fail if OpenAI shuts down?
* Elon enters the chat *
Ilya single handed ruined 700 of OpenAI's fortune overnight, this is not going to end well, my prediction is that, OpenAI is done, in 1-2 years nobody will even care about its existence.

Microsoft just won the jackpot, time to get some stocks there.
Most people who sympathized with the Board prior to this would have assumed that the presumed culprit, the legendary Ilya, has thought through everything and is ready to sacrifice anything for a course he champions. It appears that is not the case.
Yeah, this was a fight between the non-profit and the for-profit branches of OpenAI, and the for-profit won. So now the non-profit OpenAI is essentially dead, the takeover is complete.
Sam was taking OpenAI in a direction that would pose an immediate existential threat to both of Adam's businesses -- Quora and Poe.
Where in the world is this?
You're mistaking us for vegans :)
Please not another Eric Smith NSA shill running the show. on the other hand it was inevitable. either the government controls the most important companies secretly as in China or openly as in the US.
you're suggesting ilya and other board members supported firing sama for shipping a feature poe has?
That's Javascript for you. Don't want to block the one thread from doing other things in the meanwhile.
It’s almost absolutely certainly the matter case. LinkedIn and GitHub run very much independently and are really not “Microsoft” compared to actual product orgs. I’m sure this will be similar.
Wow, they made it into Guardian live ticker land: https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2023/nov/20/openai...
Huh, so collective bargaining and unionization is supported in tech under some circumstances...
It’s more that I on occasion need to run Windows applications. Modern Office 365 doesn’t work with Wine and the web version doesn’t support the features needed.

When they fully merge the desktop app and web version of Office, I won’t need to boot into Windows ever again.

9/10 I use my computer, everything I do works in Linux. That 1 time out 10 is what forces me to pay for a Windows License and a copy of Microsoft Office. I’ll still pay Microsoft a license but I would no longer need to manage a dual boot to log into Windows to use Office when the occasion rises.
Reasoning based on cui bono is a hallmark of conspiracy theories.
> I'd love to see real competition to YouTube. I'm afraid this seems not, the UX isn't great.

What do you call YouTube's UI then? Any Peertube instance I used has better UI than YouTube. Most websites have. Because YouTube UI is atrocious and one of the most user hostile UIs I have used.

> search results limited to 2 items

Not sure what you are talking about. Is this an exaggeration? It is not clear via text-only to me.
I think most of these employees wanted the fat $$$ that would happen by keeping Sam Altman on board since Sam Altman is an excellent deal maker and visionary in a commercial sense. I have no doubt that if AGI happened, we wouldn't be able to assure the safety of anyone since humans are so easily led by short term greed.
I don't think I have seen a bigger U-turn
Or demonstrating that they already were the de facto owner.
Microsoft can buy the company in parts, as it “fails” in a long drawn out process. By the end, whatever they are buying will have little value, as it will already be outdated.
For the past few days, whenever I see the word "OpenAI," the theme to "Curb Your Enthusiasm" starts playing in my head.
Time for a counter-counter-coup that ends up with Microsoft under the Linux Foundation after RMS reveals he is Satoshi...
Can you explain for us not up to date with AI developments?
Just made it 100% certain that the majority of AI staff is deluded and lacks judgment. Not a good look for AI safety.
I saw a person using this. The system had 4090, which can pull about 20-30 iter/sec. This roughly translates to 4 image/sec with 8 iter/image. This allows interactive AI drawing (thou a bit quirky). Once the desired image is reached, the user can re-run w/ 30-50 iterations to finalize the image. This is really cool.
... and pay 5-10 $ fee per transaction? I doubt it.
Yes, indeed and that's the real loss here: any chance of governing this properly got blown up by incompetence.
In the US, “daily fantasy” games were legal before general sports gambling because they were argued to be games of skill. In daily fantasy, you pick players you expect to do well that day and enter the line up into a pool of opponents with tiered payouts based on your rank at the end of the day. It’s different from betting money lines but I’m not sure it’s that different.
We know addiction isn't a defining characteristic of drugs, otherwise we'd be taking a harder look at governments' compulsion to surveil.
Thx for the lol, realy on point @elonmusk .
The dude is a quack.
Funny, I assumed it’s a disaster because all of the great economists.
The (information) systems are actually incredibly sophisticated, but they are aligned with extraction not preservation.

It "just" takes a sufficient pivot in will, a couple decades and this shit's solved.
Didn't he say that he was taking Friday off, last week? The day before his bete noire Elon Musk got into another brouhaha and OpenAI blew up?

I think he said once that there's an ETF that trades on when he takes vacations, because they keep coinciding with Events Of Note.
I think Rumble [1] is the most valid competitor at the moment.

[1] https://rumble.com/
Board will be ousted, but the ship has sailed on Sam and Greg coming back.
Anti-poverty programs should be unconditional
I'm not sure I agree. Having worked there through this transition I'd say this: L&S just seem to have lost interest in running a mature company, so their "vision" just meant nothing, Eric Schmidt basically moved on, and then after flailing about for a bit (the G+ stuff being the worst of it) they just handed the reigns to Ruth&Sundar to basically turn into a giant stock price pumping machine.
Its from the 1500s. The Falkirk Tartan dates back to the Roman era (although is arguably not a tartan).
Ilya ruined everything and shamelessly playing innocent, how low can he go?

Based on those posts from OpenAI, Ilya cares nothing about humanity or security of OpenAI, he lost his mind when Sam got all the spotlights and making all the good calls.
Because this wasn't visible enough: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/17ywbjj/comment/k9...

setTimeout(function() {
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a.resolve(1)
}, 5E3);
This is true, though I think of it as a separate problem.

One big thing is that on land we converted from hunting and gathering the commons to farming private land thousands of years ago.

In the oceans we're still doing it, and modern technology is devastatingly effective at it.
> Joining a corporate behemoth like Microsoft and all the complications it brings with it will mean a massive reduction in the freedom and innovation that Sam is used to from OpenAI

Satya is way smarter than that, I wouldn't be shocked if they have complete free reign to do whatever but have full resources of MS/Azure to enable it and Microsoft just gets % ownership and priority access.

This is a gamble for the foundation of the entire next generation of computing, no way are they going to screw it up like that in the Satya era.
again, nobody has shown even a glimmer of the board operating with morality being their focus. we just don't know. we do know that a vast majority of the company don't trust the board though.
It may well be that this is artificial and general, but I rather doubt it is intelligent.
I hope MS forks OpenAI and grabs the entire team. We have well over ten paid OpenAI accounts, I would gladly cancel those and send our money to MS.
> Microsoft hasn't actually given OpenAI $13 Billion because much of that is in the form of Azure credits

To be clear, these are still an asset OpenAI holds. It should at least let them continue doing research for a few years.
> I don't see how anything that happened this weekend leads to this conclusion.

They seem to need additional investments, but their goals are not aligned with most of their would-be investors.

If their goal really is the 'safe' development of AI, they are now in an objectively weaker position to pursue that goal, even if the actions of this weekend were otherwise justified.
The peso was pegged 1:1 to the US Dollar in the 1990s and people able to have been using US Dollars for a long time.

There are a number of countries who use a currency over which they have not control, be it the US Dollar or the Euro. I suppose the trade off is that you get a stable currency and it makes trade easier.
I don't disagree that more resolution is needed, but we do need to start somewhere when it comes to what truly is rural.

For me, the occasional farm interspersed between single-family homes (or the occasional subdivision of single-family homes interspersed between farms, same deal), strip malls, and Boeing Field (or, in my case, Scott AFB) isn't it. That's merely the outskirts of town.

Alternatively, if you have any chance at all of being reached by anything other than a 50 kW AM radio station from a major city like KMOX, you're probably some semblance of urban.

Similarly, if you can have mail delivered to your street address and not merely a shared delivery point, you're probably some semblance of urban.

Densely urban? No, absolutely not.
>Far from certain. One, they still control a lot of money and cloud credits.

This too is far from certain. The funding and credits was at best tied to milestones, and at worst, the investment contract is already broken and msft can walk.

I suspect they would not actually do the latter and the ip is tied to continual partnership.
I wonder if MS is aware of the allegations against Sam Altman, which were put forth by his sister, of sexual, financial, and other abuse.
I would argue that producing influential economists is what lead to disaster. ;-)

(remember that an economist is someone that, if you ask him to study horses, sit down and think really hard "what would I do if I was a horse?")
They had a peg and moved off when then temptation grew too great. I think they've done that a couple of times.

This is the tricky part of this by the way. For a sovereign state any preventative action is always the equivalent of me hiding the keys to the liquor cabinet from myself so I can quit drinking.

In countries that make it work it's a tricky balance of political incentives and traditions but even there when the temptations are great - see the U.S. where any politcal imperative or norms for a sensible budget are outweighed by the temptations that seigniorage brings with it.
Good point about dual acceptance as this is already occuring anyway. Thanks!
"C64 was even under 1MHz"

Not that it matters much, but strictly speaking this is true only for the PAL version.
Scammers will descend on Argentina and loot the entire economy.

Libertarians, like Marxists, are terribly naive about the prevalence and maliciousness of psychopaths and hustlers. The global economy is a dark forest.
>whereas the true researchers can stay at OpenAI

The true researchers will go to who pays them most. If OpenAi loses funding they will go to Microsoft with Altman or back to Google.
Generally speaking, 4 members is the minimum quorum for a board of 6, and 3 out of 4 is a majority decision.

I don't know if it was 3 or 4 in the end, but it may very well have been possible with just 3.
I'm going to offer a surprising "devil's advocate" thought here and suggest it would be a brilliant strategic move for Sam and Satya to hire Ilya anyway. Ilya likely made a major blunder, but if he can learn from the mistake (and it seems like he may be in the process of doing so) then he could potentially come out of this wiser and more effective in a leadership role that he was previously unprepared for.
> The biggest loss of all, though, is a necessary one: the myth that anything but a for-profit corporation is the right way to organize a company.

Hmmmh?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bosch_Stiftung

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Sons

If anything it seems like the more likely lesson is that Altman manoeuvred OpenAI into a situation which was incompatible with its non-profit objectives.
I guess someone shortened

> "Show me your [code] and conceal your [data structures], and I shall continue to be mystified. Show me your [data structures], and I won't usually need your [code]; it'll be obvious.''

as DDD.
Ilya signing the letter is chutzpah.
> Microsoft hasn't actually given OpenAI $13 Billion because much of that is in the form of Azure credits

To be clear, these don't go away. They remain an asset of OpenAI's, and could help them continue their research for a few years.
Something I've noticed when reading about people in history or even more modern indigenous people is that the clear distinction between "food" and "medicine" seems very new and peculiar to our time & culture. It's obviously a useful differentiation a lot of the time, but not always and at least sometimes it seems useful to not apply it.
When a wealthy person gives a museum much money and get a seat on the board of trustees - does that also mean that they "bought the museum"?
That's definitely still within the realm of the possible.
Feels like Meta hiring Carmack. He could build a really good thing there, but probably not the level of legendary that he got to with OpenAI.
- as a practical matter, Argentina itself does not have enough dollars to make this happen. You need a ton (more than that…) literally of physical currency to make this work. I don’t think their reserves are sufficient to cover it. (You need many additional tons of coins to make it practical too…)

Why do they need reserves? Abolish all federal obligations. Let the exporters accept only USD for their goods and allow them to figure out how it gets distributed through the Argentinian economy.
You’re right in theory, but with the non-profit “structure” the employees are secondary to the aims of the non-profit, and specifically in an entity owned wholly by the non-profit. The board acted as a non-profit board, driven by ideals not any bottom lines. It’s crazy that whatever balance the board had was gone as the board shrunk, a minority became the majority. The profit folks must have thought D’Angelo was on their side until he flipped.
Thanks!

Also, hiding the dupes to prevent polluting the main page is a good idea but @dang kind of annoying that doing that in this case means the story drops in rank on the page - this story was in active discussion and if there are dupes I think it would make sense to boost the original to the level that this duplicate was at instead of burying the story
If you use Zimbabwe as a model, it will probably be dollars plus a basket of regional currencies. A lot of South African Rand circulates in Zimbabwe so you might see a lot of Brazilian Reals, not to mention Pesos from other countries.
They should look at net pollutants produced. If someone "emits" X pollutants per year, but they cure the pollutant ebola, the two numbers should be subtracted to get the individual's net contribution to the planet.
As I said, the decisions are locally reasonable. However, if not supporting Firefox potentially exposed my company to scrutiny over anti-competitive behavior, then, yes, I would absolutely invest in testing procedures to mitigate that.

It's also worth emphasizing that it isn't difficult to support Firefox. I'm pretty sure that many of the sites that I visit do so largely by accident. I do a fair bit of web development, and Firefox/Chrome compatibility has never been an issue in the slightest for me. You almost have to go out of your way to choose Chrome-specific APIs in order to break compatibility. How does virtually every other website on the internet manage it—from my bank to scrappy startups with junior developers coming straight out of bootcamps—while Google with all of their engineering talent and $100+ billion cash on hand just can't seem to make it work?
> 3 board members (joined with Ilya Sutskever, who is publicly defecting now) found themselves in a position to take over what used to be a 9-member board, and took full control of OpenAI and the subsidiary previously worth $90 billion.

er...what does that even mean? how can a board "take full control" of the thing they are the board for? they already have full control.

the actual facts are that the board, by majority vote, sacked the CEO and kicked someone else off the board.

then a lot of other stuff happened that's still becoming clear.
This is an extremely uncharitable take based on pure speculation.

>Ilya cares nothing about humanity or security of OpenAI, he lost his mind when Sam got all the spotlights and making all the good calls.

???

I personally suspect Ilya tried to do the best for OpenAI and humanity he could but it backfired/they underestimated Altman, and now is doing the best he can to minimize the damage.
Another issue might be security ? Completely different assumptions about it between internal and external sounds like you would want avoid sharing them anyway ?
> It seems like HN is melting down.

Almost literally- this is the slowest I've seen this site, and the number of errors are pretty high. I imagine the entire tech industry is here right now. You can almost smell the melting servers.