skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
The board can and does claim it because it is legally a non profit. There is no wishy washy space this isn’t true in. Sam Altman isn’t the source of their funds, regardless. Finally, OpenAI has a pretty successful business model already without outside investment, and without sam or with sam they will not have trouble accessing customers or investors should they need it, even from Microsoft. Let’s be real Altman isn’t OpenAI.
Given the wide variety of chemicals lumped under the name "microplastics" and the complexity of the systems of the human body, many of which even modern medical science doesn't fully comprehend, the chance that they're all or even mostly inert is extremely small. Also "inert" materials can cause problems in human body all the time, even if it's just simple inflammation from the immune system responding to the physical damage they can cause.

It's like continuously pouring small grains of random dirt you scraped off the ground into your car's engine while it's running, when you're not entirely sure how the engine works, and going "meh, they're just tiny particles of dirt. My engine is still running. Probably fine". You can run that experiment on your one and only body if you wish.
Silicon Valley is really a great show. Working in tech, I often think of it. Especially whenever there's a new great idea from management that nobody saw coming and feel like the beginning of a new episode.
The entire setup is structured so that they are not supposed to be beholden to investors. If it is true that they ultimately are and Microsoft is the leverage to get Altman back, then they explicitly failed in the goal in setting up their structure of governance.

The fundamental thing you are missing here is that the charter of the non-profit and structure of their ownership of the for-profit (and the for-profit's operating agreement) is all designed in a way that is supposed to eliminate financial incentives for stakeholders as being the thing that the company and non-profit are beholden to.

It may turn out that the practical reality is different from the intent, but everything you're talking about was a feature and not a bug of how this whole thing was set up.

https://openai.com/our-structure
Sure. This particular incident has irregularities. I was referring to the general idea of a board not being able to change CEOs in the parent comment.
Well, it sounds like they took advice from GPT in their execution of the coup.
Your birth is effectively random, but the inheritance might be very much intentional. Parents might choose to build something for generations to come rather than spending everything they earn on themselves.

> Inheritance tax is progressive like income tax.
...
> Think multinational companies, not local farms.
...
> A family business needs to be quite big to be threatened by inheritance taxes.

Depends on which country you're referring to. In Sweden before 2005 inheritance tax was a flat 30 % for any inheritance above $60k. Which meant that children would need to pay a lot of money in taxes just to keep the house they grew up in after their parents passed away.
It's a play to warm the public up to the idea of a more algorithmically managed organization. In Act I, the board jesters stumble around making bad decisions and wavering. In Act II, the embarrassed board welcomes the first AI oversight into the company constitution. ...
> The others on the board outside Ilya need to go.

Does Ilya get a pass solely by his value to the company?
Well he’s not a no name.
Yes.

Seriously. It’s stupid talk to encourage regularity capture. If they were really afraid they were building a world ending device, they’d stop.
I think what's going to happen is:

- Sam would return to OpenAI as CEO and Greg as President

- Sam's request to change the Board would be accepted and Board members will resign

- Ilya would be Out

- Sam would change the governance structure from current dual nonprofit+forprofit to just for-profit corp.
"In a desperate attempt to survive on a sinking ship, Bob, with their limited options, resorts to an unconventional approach and engages in an absurd act of attempting to "fuck the ship to death". Remarkably, against all odds, Bob's unconventional approach somehow succeeds, and they miraculously make their way to San Francisco, where they use their newfound fame and fortune to carve out a successful life.
Bob survived."
Funding, name recognition in the space
Remembering the Crystal Radio (2020)
Microsoft doesn’t have ownership rights to OpenAI IP. They license it. They can’t pack up anything as they just have an IAM and billing model on top of GPT4 they use to resell OpenAI tech.
You are deeply in denial about how much GenAI has permeated into the world TODAY.
I don’t get the obsession with safety. If an organisation’s stated goal is to create AGI, how can you reasonably think you can ever make it “safe”? We’re talking about an intelligence that’s magnitudes smarter than the smartest human. How can you possibly even imagine to rein it in?
> To be honest I hate takes like yours, where people think that acknowledging a mistake (even a giant mistake) is a sign of weakness. A bigger sign of weakness in my opinion is people who commit to a shitty idea just because they said it first, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Lmfao you're joking if you think they "realized their mistake" and are now atoning.

This is 99% from Microsoft & OpenAI's other investors.
For example the Numerai hedge fund's data science tournament for crowdsourced stock market prediction is giving out their expensive hedge fund quality data to their users but it's transformed enough that the users don't actually know what the data is, yet the machine learning models are still working on it. To my knowledge it's not homomorphic encryption because that would be still too computational expensive, but it would be an ideal application for this.

https://numer.ai/
Yes, Archive blocks Cloudflare DNS. People say it’s intentional, but whether that’s true isn’t clear to me.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828702
You don't know why Altman was fired in the first place

Maybe their intentions where right and know MS forces them to take them back.

In the end will get a company working for MS's benefit only.
https://archive.is/4U6tu

For people who met the paywall but aren't using CloudFlare's DNS
GPT is based on research Google published, it’s not like he’s the Einstein of AI. Shenanigans like this can absolutely derail your future regardless of how talented you may be.
> In France, the tax is not on the amount of restate but on the inherited income, ie each kid gets taxed on his share.

Yes but the "progressivity" is harsh. Anything over 500 K per kid is already at 30% of taxation and anything over 1.7m is at 45%.

Also for one grandma, the n for the number of kids tends to not tend towards infinity but more towards something like 2.

So although you're right that it's not 45% on 20 m EUR (actual painting seems to be worth a bit more than that but it's to simply) but it's close. Because with two kids and the 100 K EUR excluded, you're still quickly at insane brackets rates.

For one kid I have the actual rate (I now did the computation) at 43% (instead of 45%) and for two kids I have the actual rate at 41.6%.

I understand that you're technically right to talk about n kids but it's a bit disingenuous to talk about "progressivity" of the tax rate when the effective tax rate is likely going to be 41.6% or 43% instead of the 45% I took as a shortcut.

And at 90 years old sadly the inheritance planning ain't going to be very effective. Even her kids are likely already 65 to 70 y/o, so their own inheritance planning won't allow many donation every 15 years.

It's still very much:

(french IRS): "Thank you grandma!".
> I can understand the skepticism against a paid font.

Me too! But that's not what upset me. What upset me was the assumption of deceit in the parent post.

It's like drive-by shootings here sometimes; people see a thing, they don't like it, and they assume that the person creating it therefore has bad motives. I've been on the receiving end, directly, and it stinks. It makes this place worse.
How do you define "safety"?

It's becoming a bit of a weasel word in these discussions. I keep hearing it thrown around with nobody specifying how rolling out ChatGPT to more people makes the world "less safe". It's a laugh line at this point.
Just as software devs are allergic to voting machines which run software, I would imagine that ML companies will be the last to adopt ML for their own high-level decision making.
> (allegedly)

If this (very sparse and lacking in detail) article is true, is this a genuine attempt to get Altman back or just a filip to concerned investors such as Microsoft?

Does OpenAI's board really want Altman back so soon after deposing him so decisively?

Would Altman even want to come back under any terms that would be acceptable to the board? If "significant governance changes" means removing those who had removed him, that seems unlikely.

The Verge's report just raises so many additional questions that I find it difficult to believe at face value.
Oh for sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project
The Manhattan Project physicists once feared setting the atmosphere on fire. Scientific paradigms progress with time.
Current language models fail in all sorts of quantifiable ways, but I think that trying to discuss their merits away by reasoning about what it means to 'truly understand' something, or to be 'truly intelligent' is a complete dead-end.

It seems to me that it's based on the magical thought that there's something truly special and unique about us humans, as compared to other species or technology. Those discussions always seem more theological than science-driven to me. If you want to measure the difference between human performance and LLMs, there's a million experiments you can run. I'll gladly be convinced by data, and I'm open to the possibility that the data might point in either direction, or be inconclusive. But grand words without data are not convincing.
Conspiracy time: Is it possible this was all orchestrated? He was fired, causing mistrust in the governance structure, which is part of the remaining open source portion of “open” ai. Then he gets rehired with significant governance changes, thus removing any last vestiges of real power of the open source portion of the company.

Lol
Lots of questions about this board.
Oh, I know. I used to work at NASA. But I still think it's a delightful euphemism. (And yes, I'm being ironic.)
Sam Altman says he has a new venture in mind
If factually inaccurate results = unsafety, then the internet must be the most unsafe place on the planet!
The fact that multiple top employees quit in protest when he was fired suggests to me that they found him valuable.
Surely Microsoft can terminate their Azure access? Why piss off your largest supplier?
A true but acceptable "AI"-proof captcha is impossible, because the smartest AIs are better than the least tech-savvy individuals. Captchas of all kinds were being solved by bots even before LLMs.

Fortunately, LLM queries are relatively expensive and time-consuming. If 1 query costs $0.01 and takes 1 millisecond, that may not seem like a lot. But if you're trying to DOS a server you'll probably need >1000 queries a second, and even if that's enough, such a DOS will cost you $36,000/hr. In this case, whether the captcha is solvable by the LLM doesn't matter.
I hope that group starts a new version of openai using the credibility and popularity gained to acheive the original vision of safe, free, and open agi for the betterment of humanity.
Your link is dead... but the idea that the "vast majority" of Palestinians support a group that was elected way back in 2004, then immediately dismantled elections violently attacks any dissenters is laughable, Palestinians were bravely publicly protesting hamas (again, a group known for executing dissenters) just 4 months before the attacks, internal support for hamas is not high. https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-b...
Dang.

I owe Mr. Altman an apology. I didn't think a startup board would be so mindexplodingly stupid and figured some toxic skeleton fell out of his closet.

Well, I'm sorry. Its a lesson to not speculate in public.
He wasn't technically a founder but was there since day one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAI

https://openai.com/blog/introducing-openai
As a single developer? Yes. As part of a team? Give me explicit type checks, please.
Why would investors trust this person? Is it because he’s a little bit sociopathic just like then?
just imagine when agi arrives and these incompetent people in charge
It was the headline news story in most Indian news websites, even though we have two major states heading for election tomorrow.

You underestimate how obsessed people are with chatGPT and AI
Purely speculating, but could there be some sort of 4D chess move going on here? Look at the timeline:

1) The board puts out a press release saying Sam was outed for not being candid

2) Internally a memo from the COO circulates saying that is not true

3) Greg and other senior folks quit

4) Now he is in a negotiating position to return for a) being fired on a false premise and b) bringing back all the top talent

If someone wanted to restructure the board of this company, they could have fed the other board members false information to put Sam in this negotiating position. It's also strange that a bunch of billionaires voiced support for Sam immediately after the firing without knowing any details.
I used to live in a pretty bad area, and the darkest roads were safest because creeps couldn't see what they were doing
altman was in this from the beginning.
they all orchestrated to curb msft somehow
like a loop hope that screws msft's control but also keeps the gpu deal
#speculation

evidence:
a. It's openai ffs, they already have advance enough RL bots that can create 999+ IQ strategies/

b. google meet/

theory:
they were training GPT-5, and had some time to clean some under table dust.

again #pure_speculation
Brightest flash ever disturbed Earth's atmosphere last year
This is an "AI is too dumb" danger, whereas the AI prophets of doom want us to focus on "AI is too smart" dangers.
Yeah, at least SBF managed to spin up a $20 billion dollar ponzi scheme.

Sure, it's incredibly psychopathic, but it's still an achievement!
nvm, reality is being far more entertaining
Having the CEO of Quora on the board also smells of a vested interest to hold the company/non-profit back.
while opensource is great. like 1M enthusiasts cannot build Boing 767, the same here. GPT4+DALE+4v aren't just models. That's the whole internal infrastructure, training, many interconnected things and pipelines. It's a _full_time_job_ for hundreds of experts. Plus a lot of $$ in hardware and services. OpenSource simply doesn't have this resources. The best models are opensourced by commercial companies. Like Meta handing out LLaMAs. So, at least for now, opensouce is not catching up, and 'less than a year behind' is questionable. More like 'forever', but still moving forward. One day it may dominate, like Linux. But not any time soon.
So usual "PR people write news articles", police edition. pg described the general form in the "Submarine" essay.
> No one has ever been able to demonstrate an "unsafe" AI of any kind.

Do you believe AI trained for military purposes is going to be safe and friendly to the enemy?
So we'll get MS AI?

Sounds even worse.
I don't think we need AIs to posess superhuman intelligence to cause
us a lot of work - legislatively regulating and policing good old limited humans already requires a lot of infrastructure.
How are you still hireable? If I knew you orchestrated two coups at previous companies and I was responsible for hiring, you would be radioactive to me. Especially knowing that all that effort went into putting together a successful coup over other work.

Coups, in general, are the domain of the petty. One need only look at Ilya and D'Angelo to see this in action. D'Angelo neutered Quora by pushing out its co-founder, Charlie Cheever. If you're not happy with the way a company is doing business, your best action is to walk away.
You mean that Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft, is behind the drive to reinstate Altman as CEO, right? Because if you mean he was behind Altman's ouster, I'll happily take your money; let me know what your terms are. :)
We'd be interested in the general characteristics of the most common ones you are seeing. If you have a chance to file a couple issues (and haven't done so yet): https://github.com/uber-go/nilaway/issues

We definitely have gotten some useful reports there already since the blog post!

We are aware of a number of sources of false positives and actively trying to drive them down (prioritizing the patterns that are common in our codebase, but very much interested in making the tool useful to others too!).

Some sources of false positives are fundamental (any non-trivial type system will forbid some programs which are otherwise safe in ways that can't be proven statically), others need complex in-development features for the tool to understand (e.g. contracts, such as "foo(...) returns nil iff its third argument is nil"), and some are just a matter of adding a library model or similar small change and we just haven't run into it ourselves.
Maybe it’s your own biases at work as well. The major publications I frequent including the NYT talk about it as being progress even with the explosion and seem very neutral if not hopeful and positive.

NYT: “The journeys of Starship’s two parts ended in separate explosions. But the engineers at Elon Musk’s spaceflight company overcame problems that marred the rocket’s first flight in April.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/18/science/spacex-starship-l...
That would mean money wins and we lose.
A crypto wallet tied to your identity solves one of the biggest problems in the post AI world: human identity

At least it will stop those godawful “are you human” proof puzzles.
How is this a coup? The board is the CEOs boss. If that’s not true then they should have chosen a different corporate structure
I think their point is that all the wavelengths that make the lights most-useful from a safety perspective are also those which interfere with seeing the stars and whatnot.
I was expecting the clip from The Wire: https://youtu.be/WP-lrftLQaQ?si=0KSbJqhZpKtWeJ0A
That weather radar data is wild. Debris coming down barely a hundred miles north of San Juan, a metro area of over two million. Texas is starting to seem like a much less ideal launch point.
The people? They'd leave at the drop of a hat for a chance for equity at a for-profit venture.
Landlords. Medical debt.

Prices have inflated for decades. Minimum wage has stagnated.
>She previously cofounded Fellow Robots

Near as I can tell they never actually launched a product. Their webpage is a GoDaddy parked domain page. Their Facebook page is pictures of them attending conferences and sharing their excitement for what Boston Dynamics and other ACTUAL robotics companies were doing.

>she launched with a colleague from Singularity University

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_Group

Just lol.

>then cofounded GeoSim Systems

Seems to be a consulting business for creating digital twins that never really got off the ground.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tasha-m-25475a54/details/experie...

It doesn't appears she's ever had a real job. Someone in the other thread commented that her profile reeks of a three letter agency plant. Possible. Either that or she's just a dabbler funder by her actor husband.
I don't think total organizational chaos and fracture is "exactly as designed." The board was designed to have independent veto power in the name of ethical AGI, but they broke the emergency glass for apparently no real reason.
My point is that the reason for Sam's firing is irrelevant to the point that the board is incompetent and should be fired.

Valid or not, you don't blindside major investors who have given you billions. They apparently told Microsoft minutes before the announcement and after the decision had already been made. Even if you fully intend to take this course of action, you loop in your major investors and consult them or at least give them a heads up to prepare any communications they might need to make or even just their press people are prepared for the inevitable questions.

They didn't do that, according to Micrsoft. That's why they need to be fired.
Even if he comes back, how could the trust relationship still be there between him and Ilya and Mira?
OAI will have to change in big ways.
Right, my point here is that the "design" of the board here raises a lot of questions.

Board charters are often written so that this kind of thing doesn't happen - especially in the case of startups with small boards and charismatic founders.
Or even just have the work (past-foundations) partitioned into 1~3 day long chunks, and bus the crews to the nearby construction plots/lots so that each worker gets through dozens of ~identical 1~3 day jobs at equally many buildings, doing the exact same tasks for each of those buildings.

It's not a problem shuttling them up to an hour each way per day from their home to the site (and back), at least before efficiency improvements get overshadowed by the commuting overhead.

And yeah, pre-cutting tasks to e.g. prep cable terminations for outlets, outlet holes in drywall, floor tiles/panels to fit perfectly, etc., should not be a problem to substantially automate in a factory, thanks to modern technology for mapping/ensuring mounting dimensions are spot-on as is required for all pre-cut things to correctly line up. Have the factory robots sort the pre-cut parts for shipping such that they get pulled from the pallet/crate in the order they're added (mounted) to the house, maybe with a QR code and/or RFID-sticker to search/check nothing got mixed up. Combine the tag with e.g. the cable-end-protector-cap that's stuck to the cable ends to protect the bare copper and also protect other things from getting poked/scratched, until the cable is pulled through the walls/conduits to the termination boxes. Check at each end if the cable belongs there, right before peeling the cap off for reuse at the factory (just a fresh sticky bandage or such needed).

Running such an approach ought to yield a lot of experience in the automation/organizing/design-for-manufacturing "residential/office construction engineering/architecture" areas, which is naturally local talent due to site visits and hands-on (factory) process debugging needs.

Thus having that talent should be a competitive advantage due to it making further projects like it significantly easier, massively reducing the burden of "construction takes time and skilled manpower" on their city's desires to outpace competitors with advanced city/neighborhood design: keeping up with demand for walkable-distance dwellings around new transit stations cuts the time-until-ROI for that transit infrastructure. And more critically, it speeds the feedback loop for the design of such infrastructure, as newly constructed (according to updated designs) transit stations in places without "dense city" in the way quickly rise to nominal (pedestrian) utilization. 2 years vs. 5 years changes whether after 10 years you build the second generation, or already know how the 4th generation performed. Of course these are just what-if speculative examples to illustrate how impactful/enabling some of these changes/approaches can be.
Oh no, 100% mean that he was driving the return. It's well-documented that he found out a minute before we did, and that he was furious.

I'll edit my comment to clarify!
This doesn't seem very obvious to me. The fact this article exists, and that Microsoft is likely exerting influence over the CEO outcome, implies there's codependence at a minimum.
If by government you mean local agencies staffed by local people using this tech to make their job easier for what to them is the small concession of reigning in how they speak of it, then sure, I guess people can can just go against what they see as their best interests. Easy.