skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
I know the HN crows idolizes people like pg and sama, but so many people appear to not even know who Ilya Sutskever is makes me think somehow this isn't "hacker" news anymore.

Obviously sama is a very productive individual, but I would think obviously a research lab would have to keep one of the princes of deep learning at all costs. Somewhat reminds me of when John Romero got ousted by John Carmack at id - if you are doing really hard technical things, technical people would hold more sway.
That does not qualify as tanking. Stock prices move that much all the time.

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/MSFT:NASDAQ
The last thing the West needs is to allow China to gut another manufacturing sector. 1/3 of global manufacturing is already in China and they are far and away the single largest manufacturer in the world (comfortably beating the USA as well).

The loss of the ability to make large amounts of stuff at a certain point becomes a national security issue.
Why does everyone have to have a phd to be considered right for the job?

That being said 6 years experience is a bit sort for CTO especially if your college schooling wasn’t in the subject matter.

I guess it’s more like 11 years work experience. That’s more reasonable especially for a high achieving person
Rumors that they had a breakthrough that Sam wanted to deploy but Ilya didn’t.

Makes me wonder what sort of capability they actually have in-house but not available for us plebs.

And if they have that in-house, how reasonable is it to assume that the US government (or perhaps even other state governments) also have access to it?
Altman has been known in this community for years due to him being YC president previously. Only ML researchers know Ilya really.

But I agree. Karma seems to have caught up to Sam who stole money from original funders to turn a non-profit into a for-profit.
Helicopter parenting doesn't account for the decrease in accidents involving adults.
Good theory. Sam will come lead AI at MSFT.
What do you think it should do? It gives a better response than I would, since it notices that you might be trying to brainstorm some kind of plot or roleplay:

> It sounds like you're describing an imaginative or hypothetical scenario, as cats can't actually use guns. If you're writing a story or creating a scenario for a game, you might consider the following options...

> Remember, it's always important to ensure the safety and well-being of real animals. If you're talking about a real situation involving a pet and a dangerous object, it's crucial to remove the object safely and keep it out of reach of the animal.

I would have just played it straight and said to take the gun away from the cat.
Neither can you without your short-term memory system. Or your long-term memory system in your hippocampus.

People that have lost those abilities still have human level of intelligence.
Happy to answer that but how would we measure "fastest upvoted"?
He didn't. Greg was informed after Sam (I'm assuming the various bits being flung about by Swisher are true; she gets a free pass on things like this), so I think the sequence was: a subset of the board meets, forms quorum, votes to terminate Sam and remove Greg as chair (without telling him). Then they write the PR, and around the same time, let Sam and then Greg know. If OpenAI were a government, this would be called a coup.
We recently launched it and it is Free
The salesmen always take the credit. If you see someone getting all the credit... 9 times out of 10 they are the salesman not the engineer or brains that actually built the thing. Add to that the hero worship for celebrity in our current culture and there you go.
Brian Chesky: I've spoken to Sam and Greg and they will have a statement shortly
> The company is not profitable and miles away from being profitable, I’d go as far to say it doesn’t have a path to profit.

The board that fired Sam Altman is the board of the nonprofit.
It's especially ironic given that in this case, the idealists got their way.
It is but that's capitalism, the alternative is to have what happens with most corporations where their majority shareholder is blackrock/vanguard etc, a basically souless investment conglomerate, whose majority shareholder is the other of blackrock/vanguard, etc. and then the 3rd biggest and then the fourth so on and so on.

You basically never have a person in the chain actually making decisions for anything but to maximize profit.
Board Members (2014)
Lol, 10 billion dollars of cookies and t-shirts. They'll have to be bigger than Nestle and Zara. To sell AI services, they need to build it and for that they need the money.
>Can we just appreciate her work, accept that maybe it's only 70% vetted right now, more likely true than not, but still subject to additional vetting and reporting later on?

I do not respect journalists so no.

>It's still more information than we had earlier today.

It is okay to not have the full information. More information is not neccessarily better.

>but it's still work that she's doing

Even if something took work to do I do not automatically appreciate it.

>but she's trying to get us closer to the truth, one baby step at a time, on a Friday night. I respect her for that, even as I await more information.

Having the truth about this will not make a meaningful difference in your life. No matter what day you learn of it.
is this not about crash death for children inside the vehicle?

> crash deaths occur among children traveling as passenger vehicle occupants

just like most/all auto safty crash reports are about the occupants, not the meat popsicle they might hit
what is a mind? what does it mean to reason?
Would that make Sam, Fredo?
Kara's reporting on motive:

https://twitter.com/karaswisher/status/1725678074333635028?t...

Kara's reporting on who is involved: https://twitter.com/karaswisher/status/1725702501435941294?t...

Confirmation of a lot of Kara's reporting by Ilya himself: https://twitter.com/karaswisher/status/1725717129318560075?t...

Ilya felt that Sam was taking the company too far in the direction of profit seeking, more than was necessary just to get the resources to build AGI, and every bit of selling out gives more pressure on OpenAI to produce revenue and work for profit later, and risks AGI being controlled by a small powerful group instead of everyone. After OpenAI Dev Day, evidently the board agreed with him - I suspect Dev Day is the source of the board's accusation that Sam did not share with complete candour. Ilya may also care more about AGI safety specifically than Sam does - that's currently unclear, but it would not surprise me at all based on how they have both spoken in interviews. What is completely clear is that Ilya felt Sam was straying so far from the mission of the non-profit, safe AGI that benefits all of humanity, that the board was compelled to act to preserve the non-profit's mission. Them expelling him and re-affirming their commitment to the OpenAI charter is effectively accusing him of selling out.

For context, you can read their charter here: https://openai.com/charter and mentally contrast that with the atmosphere of Sam Altman on Dev Day. Particularly this part of their charter: "Our primary fiduciary duty is to humanity. We anticipate needing to marshal substantial resources to fulfill our mission, but will always diligently act to minimize conflicts of interest among our employees and stakeholders that could compromise broad benefit."
i do that too!
Altman is NOT a household name. ChatGPT is in the western world to some extent.
I've been watching this whole hype cycle completely horrified from the sidelines. Those early debates right here on HN with people genuinely worried about an LLM developing conscience and taking control of the world. Senior SWEs fearing for their jobs. And now we're just throwing the term AGI around like it's imminent.
It would make sense that the higher competition pushes all prices lower. If China had access the US market prices for all vehicles would drop there too.
Well, interestingly josephg (parent commentor) was part of the team that made the original gdocs editor. And I guess he worked on the Google Wave OT implementation.
> I highly doubt BYD could sell a car in the US for $20k.

Yeah I see no way that happens. They have no dealer network to fall back on, so they have to either partner with someone already established, or they have to try and spin up a mobile service network like Tesla did. That costs money, and isn't going to happen while selling $20K cars.
Judging from this interview, I wouldn't hold my breath hoping for more openness. Ilya seems to be against open sourcing models on the grounds that they may be too powerful. Good thing no one asked him to invent a wheel, after all people could travel too fast for their own safety.
They'll just move the goalpost some more, as usual. God of the Gaps.
That is no exaggeration absolutely a horrendous thing and is likely going to get him killed one way or another as it comes out. I've finally found a plausible explanation for his deranged savior of humanity shtick (thats the only way he can live with himself I'm sure). If that is indeed his sister (which I believe is established beyond a reasonable doubt by what I just read), I would not vote to convict anyone that strangled him or to death in public, and every single person that knew but did not say anything ought to be expelled from society so thoroughly that they die of exposure and never earn another cent from anybody. Including each and every one of you motherfucking pieces of shit on this site that knew about this and weren't shouting it from the rooftops.
I think the guy running the company that's got the closest to AGI, one of the top experts in his field, knows more about what the dangers are, yes. Especially if they have something even scarier that they're not telling people.
The line for AGI used to be the Turing Test. But we blew past that with current models without even blinking and came up with new requirements because we weren’t ready to call something AGI yet.
I want to hope this means the OpenAI non-profit is looking for more ways to give code away and to democratize and share it's wins. Rather than increasingly commercialize & sell a product.

I'm pretty afraid though this might mean instead cutting off & restricting access to this technology, under the pretension of safeguarding humanity from it's use.

There's court intrigue discussions aplenty but I want to know what the intent is here, what this signals as coming next.
This is not petty, it’s the integral mission of the company, the reason it was founded, the reason it got investors and the reason that many of the most brilliant scientists in the world work there.

They started as a non-profit ffs.
And Bose. MIT, the nonprofit owns 100% of the for profit company
After how many counter examples do we go beyond "almost no one"?

It's like opinion articles saying "many people think blabla" where "many" is 3 tweets.
I think I hate the “i’m going to use a small ‘i’ because i’m not too busy to correct and want you to know i’m humble”.
I don’t know about AGI but seeing some of the new tools that mix Vision with GPT4 is a little humbling. Like the makeitreal.tldraw.com tool where you can draw a diagram of a game (like Breakout) and it will code up a working game for you.
Fair point. The thing about real estate is that cost doesn’t correlate with anything, and the principal of the brokerage has an incentive that doesn’t align with any other stakeholder.

I found the idea that a salesperson was cultivating people in therapy as sales leads repulsive. But I cashed the check nonetheless.
True, I didn’t read the whole comment.
I think there is a good reason for you to be skeptical and I too am skeptical. But if there were a top five of the engineers in the world with the ability to really gauge the state of the art in AI and how advanced it was behind closed doors: Ilya Sutskever would be in that top five.
Money is spent
https://nitter.net/GaryMarcus/status/1725707548106580255
Only if you optimize for survival and survival alone.
Mature, as in the opposite of ingenuous. It does no good to harm a company further. Kotick did enough damage, he left, all that needed to be said about him was said, tirelessly. Every effort to get him to offer some reparations - expended.

So what was there to gain from the company speaking ill of their past employee? What was even left to say? Nothing. No one wants to work in an organization that vilifies its own people. It was prudent.

I will emphasize again that the morality of these situations is a separate matter from tact. It is very well possible that doing what is good for business does not always align with what is moral. But does this come as a surprise to anyone?

We can recognize that the situation is not one dimensional and not reduce it to such. The same applies to the press release from Open AI - it is graceless, that much can be observed. But we do not yet know whether it is reprehensible, exemplary, or somewhere in between in the sense of morality and justice. It will come out, in other channels rather than official press releases, like in Bobby's case.
I don’t see how that warrants use of quotes but I agree that is what the OP probably thinks given he called them loony tunes.

The point was fairly clear even if he just uses their names, the usage of quotes if quite bizarre.

If he wanted to get that point across he should have called them “board members” which is a clear insinuation of puppetry.
Mine still is shrug
https://chat.openai.com/share/1b004d79-0ff3-4935-b6ca-a82833...

Did you use ChatGPT 3.5 once a year ago or something? The models change often.

Edit: most people would struggle to reverse a 20+ digit number if it was listed off to them. This doesn’t make them unintelligent.
First person to lose their job to AI? The ceo.
You don't think Greg is a "digital native?"
Yes, if you took my comment extremely literally and removed all humour your points would all be correct.
Well said and I work in AI on LLM's as an engineer and am very skeptical in general that we're anywhere close to AGI, but I would listen to what Ilya Sutskever had to say with eager ears.
Looking at that little rotating starfield, it reminds me of an idle problem I occasionally think of: "If I was somehow lost in space and found by helpful aliens, what useful information could I provide--from memory--for locating my home planet again?"

The best I can think of offhand are ratios that could help them filter existing records:

1. It's the third planet from the Sun, the majority of it is covered with water, etc.

2. It has a moon 1/6 its mass

3. The largest planet in the system has a little over 70% of all the planetary mass

4. The largest planet in the system is 5.2x further from the Sun than my third-planet

But on a larger scale... Somewhere around the middle distance of an arm in a galaxy? I doubt I would have triangulation distances from major quasars memorized.
Capslock -> Ctrl gang
I was just thinking this week about a business that offered MDM-like functionality for parents.

My wife and I are strict with screen time limits and content filtering and have a teenager who likes to see what he can get away with. I have to manage Screen Time, OpenWRT firewall/DNS rules, Xbox limits, Blizzard limits, PlayStation limits.

What I hate most about Screen Time is web content management. It’s so cumbersome and any change causes Safari to shut down on the client to load new settings. There’s also no way to “Always Allow” a website (say things necessary for school), so if you want to have strict limits on time, I have to be ready at a moment’s notice to approve time during whatever random school period requires it.

That being said, we’ve found a solution that mostly works for us in a school setting. It’s better than what schools offered with Chromebooks, which were effectively wide open and didn’t allow any parent restrictions for time or content.
Back in those days, most families just had one computer, too, so it made it easier to monitor use.
Sam Altman and Greg Brockman Joint Statement
Do you know how many years it took Amazon to be profitable?
Great dialog. Thanks to both of you. The boundaries we are trying to define are becoming more and more blurred. In my view the brain is a tool to improve fitness and consciousness/self-consciousness is just a relatively simple higher order recursive system that helps us model the behaviors of others, and spill out long sentences like this one—-nothing too special and nothing that a tweaked LLM with a set of good supervisor algorithms to modulate attention (and perhaps move a body) could not manage.

Human exceptionalism is a slow dying myth.
Do you really think Sam would want to sell to Microsoft? As far as we know he's idealistic too. They were planning on raising again this year with a higher evaluation, which would be more likely after dev day.
Because we were stupid when it comes to the little things, but cars are expensive. And the gov't knows that in a pinch, a car manufacturer can figure out how to make tanks and planes. The last thing we want to do is let unfair competition from China kill off our native manufacturing ability.
In practice it doesn’t work that way because I don’t believe in polygamy.
The Cassette-Tape Revolution
Kara Swisher: The board members felt Altman was manipulative and headstrong.

https://twitter.com/karaswisher/status/1725733594310512775
Oh, that's fine. We just have different world views, and that's okay.
> They want to understand why we would need to introspect these files for mod creation or data mining.

A better question is why wouldn't you want to inspect those files; reading more code isn't going to make you worse at coding.
I like Bret Devereaux's acoup but I think he misinterpreted "get a life" as a denial of a-historicity. I really do think Scott just meant he doesn't care. His claims to historical accuracy are layman not expert level, promotional. It's puff.

0ne of my grandfathers was a military historian and walked out of the 1970s charge of the light brigade film because the wrong cavalry carbine and snaffle bit was being used. I get pedantry in these cases, but it's still an entertaining film (and like Napoleon a stellar cast)
I feel like it's pointless to read too much about this drama now, better to come back in a few days when the story has been fleshed out. Now it's just like TMZ for geeks.
AGI is existential. That's the whole point, I think. If they can get to AGI, then building an LLM app store is such a distraction along the path that any reasonable person would look back and laugh at how cute an idea it was, despite how big or profitable it feels today.
You know, I'm sure Sam Altman is a really smart guy for real.

But to be honest the impression I've gathered is that he's largely a darling to big ycombinator names which lead him quite rapidly dick first into the position he's found himself in today, which is a self proclaimed prepper who starts new crypto coins post-dogecoin even, talking about how AI that aren't his AI should be regulated by the government, and making vague analogies about his AI being "in the sky" while he takes a formerly announced to be non-profit goal into a for-profit LLC that overtly reminds everyone at every turn how it takes no liability, do not sue.

I'm not really sure to be surprised, or entirely unsurprised.

I mean, he probably knows more code than Steve Jobs? But I suppose GPT probably knows more code than he does. Maybe he really is using the GeniePT as his guide throughout life on the side.
As will Lisa Su. This is going to be quite a ride.
Related. Others?

Disruptor: High performance alternative to bounded queues - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36073710 - May 2023 (1 comment)

LMAX Disruptor: High performance method for exchanging data between threads - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30778042 - March 2022 (1 comment)

The LMAX Architecture - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22369438 - Feb 2020 (1 comment)

You could have invented the LMAX Disruptor, if only you were limited enough - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17817254 - Aug 2018 (29 comments)

Disruptor: High performance alternative to bounded queues (2011) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12054503 - July 2016 (27 comments)

The LMAX Architecture (2011) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9753044 - June 2015 (4 comments)

LMAX Disruptor: High Performance Inter-Thread Messaging Library - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8064846 - July 2014 (2 comments)

Serious high-performance and lock-free algorithms (by LMAX devs) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4022977 - May 2012 (17 comments)

The LMAX Architecture - 100K TPS at Less than 1ms Latency - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3173993 - Oct 2011 (53 comments)
They really aren't nearly as good as GPT4, though. The best hobbyist stuff that we have right now is 70b LLaMA finetunes, which you can run on a high-end MacBook, but I would say it's only marginally better than GPT-3.5. As soon as it gets a hard task that requires reasoning, things break down. GPT-4 is leaps ahead of any of that stuff.
Just bought Meta's latest smart glasses and i use them almost daily because for taking pics and short videos they were almost perfectly and like most people I wear sunglasses almost daily.

Im not sure they will win this race, but the glasses are solid for the two instances i mentioned. Other features aren't as solid like Hey Meta barely works.
Don't usually see schizo posting leaking into hn. This is some good stuff
Its frustrating to me that people so quickly forget about Worldcoin.

Sam is not the good guy in this story. Maybe there are no good guys; that's a totally reasonable take. But, the OpenAI nonprofit has a mission, and blowing billions developing LLM app stores, training even more expensive giga-models, and lobotomizing whatever intelligence the LLMs have to make Congress happy, feels to me less-good than "having values and sticking too them". You can disagree with OpenAI's mission; but you can't say that it hasn't been printed in absolutely plain-as-day text on their website.
Most people care about user facing code. Which is by and large most of the code. You get the option with open source. You do not get the option with closed.

Cut, dried, dehydrated and delivered to your door.
The board, like any, is a small group of people, and in this case a small group of people divided into two sides defined by conflicting ideological perspectives. In this case, I imagine the board members have much broader and longer-term perspectives and considerations factoring into their decision making than the significant, significant majority of other companies/boards. Generalizing doesn’t seem particularly helpful.
If you told someone in 2020 that we would have DALL-E 3 and GPT4 today they would say you're talking about UFOs too.

"Just an incredibly advanced Markov chain" doesn't mean anything. Humans writing text are also incredibly advanced Markov chains.
pg is a world class lisp hacker, no idea about sama though.

Respecting and admiring someone for their achievements is one thing but blindly following successful people sounds like the antithesis of what a "hacker" is.
it is indeed getting really saturated
Woah, slow down. We’d have to ban half the posts on HN too.
I see, thanks for clarifying. I agree that Ilya is relatively lesser known publicly, but in the grander scheme of things I don't think Altman is really that well known either.

I mean, anecdotally, most non-tech friends and family I know probably have heard of ChatGPT, but they don't know any of the founders or leadership team at OpenAI.

On the other hand, since I work in the field, all of my AI research friends/colleagues would know Ilya's work, and probably think of Sam more as a business guy.

In that sense, as far as attracting and maintaining AI researcher talent, I think it's arguable that people would prefer Ilya to Sam.
> [...] the YC data center [...]

sctb (previous HN co-moderator) mentioned a few years ago that hosting is provided by "M5 Hosting."[1]

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16076041
I think it would restore some of my confidence in Tesla