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I was expecting an image of the radix tree of PHP function namespace.
> PHP is not "tray full of old rusty instruments".

Clearly that's a matter of opinion.
I actually had to learn more PHP than I'd have liked to write this post. It was never my language; I started in the Perl days before PHP was a thing, stuck with it, then jumped ship to Python. I've interacted with it in the form of horror stories from colleagues and the occasional having to fix some friend's oekaki thing or whatever.

I wrote this because nobody had written it comprehensively enough, and as an engineer I am inexplicably convinced that I can do everything better than everyone else if I just redo it from scratch.
PHP has had its time FWIW gave ASP.net run for its money - and lets leave it at that. Ruby has some difficult points. There are some antipatterns in rails. What dynamic languages do really bad is error reporting. And that what makes its so damned hard to get around becoming really good at a predictable rate.

I wonder if python's Django stack traces are better on errors in templates and such.
That seems the most likely indeed. I wonder if google or twitter (or even apple) were involved.
You realise that there are tools to get around the problems that you describe? Linters and automated testing will both catch the sorts of problems that you're having.
What surprises me is that "they" can find talented programmers who are willing to code PHP.
"Halcyon and On" is always a must have.
I don't think Iran has ever attacked another country. OTOH, there is a country that attacks Iran's neighbors and tries to manipulate the world's oil supply. Thankfully there's no way China would let them start a war with Iran.

A middle eastern country with weapons of mass destruction... where have I heard that before?
[As only a novice could...] But yeah, I've only recently gotten back in to Ruby because performance be damned, it's fun in its own way (to someone who doesn't do any programming for a living at least). Edit: though I'll freely admit that for my purposes, performance has yet to be much of an issue.
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If you think about it, there are two noticeable motives that put PHP where it is:

- The language has been made and (poorly?) designed around the web. While PHP is a language itself, it usually has no purpose outside the web, while Python and Ruby do not address the same problems the same way.

- Deployment is easy.

And yet, it seems all these articles fail at noticing these two simple things.
If two different threads were trying to lock different paths that entered the same cycle at different nodes, there can be a deadlock.

X -> B
B -> C
C -> B
Y -> C

Thread 1 tries to lock X B C; thread 2 tries to lock Y C B; deadlock with 1 holding X and B, 2 holding Y and C.

It's possible that your paths may be more restricted than this, but I reckon keeping the paths and cycles clean would be a bigger problem than recursive mutexes.
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OpenSSL also had 8 vulnerabilities in 2012 -- http://www.openssl.org/news/vulnerabilities.html.
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Cool idea, I've been to Hacker news meetups and met some smart guys. Curious to see how this works out in real time...
Sweet.. :)
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I really enjoyed Kevin's response to the question about work-life balance. It really goes to show that you don't need to sleep 20 hours a week and stay up till 3am coding every night to "make it."
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Do you have this in audio/video? It would be nice to hear/see this exchange.
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I know why it's successful.

I remember when PHP was becoming popular. It allowed for inroads to code from front end designers who hated coding in Flash at a time when academia-based Java people were running all the big websites. If you wanted to hack up and put up a website, you can do so in a few minutes with a LAMP stack where a Java stack needed some lessons in Java.

Same is pretty much true today, but it's 10 languages instead of Java.

You know, Java was the same way. It was originally made in the 90s as a language made for embedded devices (toasters, refrigerators, etc). No one expected it to be a web language.

But Java offered something that was attractive to C++ coders: garbage collection. that made learning the language a lot easier. C++ people joked about Java never becoming popular. It crashed a lot! (core dumps - a common issue in PHP)

PHP reminds me a lot of what Java was 10 years ago. It's not as well put together as Java was. And it too took about 8-10 years to introduce templating.

My point:

1) PHP is popular because it has a more welcoming barrier of entry into coding.

2) PHP's problems appear the same to me as Java's problems 10 years ago.

That's all. Not saying one is better than another. Use whatever the fuck you want. I use both so as long as my employer pays me. Tell me to code mindfuck and I will. As I get older, I think I hate them all.
Absolutely. I feel like I wasted some of my most able years fiddling with code that was complete garbage (my fault) and not learning much of anything because I was constantly looking for explanations of, well, everything. Granted, I was young, foolish, and accepted what everyone was saying ("All you need for webdev is PHP... shhhh shhhh"). I didn't really 'get' programming due to all that. But Python was a breath of fresh air, and while I'm no expert I feel much better for it even while going through snippets of PHP.

Basically, I saw PHP as the pragmatic solution to programming for the web. Problem was I didn't really understand programming until Python showed me the light, and while I'm much happier now using and [still] learning C I found it to be an immense help.
IMO it's entirely because they're worried about another Arab Spring. If they control the only Twitter and the only Faceburqa, it becomes much more difficult for protesters to organize on that scale.
You're right. This is a supply-and-demand problem : which choices does non-programmers or casual programmers have when they want to create an app ? How can someone who's working or studying 40+ hours a week find the time to learn the basics of MVC, inheritance etc ...
There is a demand for easy to create template-based websites and PHP is the only kid in town for this kind of things.
Give this a shot http://docs.racket-lang.org/quick/index.html

See the bottom link too.
This is the right attitude.

If you want to do business that is how it is supposed to work. The customer won't care less how the product was developed, and if he cares, he will be defining the tools anyway.
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Thanks for this.. Saved me from cracking my head at youtube trying to search for songs... :)
> Where's the Ruby version of this? The Python version? The JavaScript version?

heroku ? you don't even have to upload anything manually, a single command deploys your app.
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I'm just wondering how this article got pushed to the HN front page? If this were an article with substantial evidence against global warming such as the many articles and arguments provided in Crichton's State of Fear, would it be posted here? No. And that's my problem with this. The fact is that if we were actually capable of understanding what was causing global climate change, we would be able to predict the weather, and... we can't. We should instead be focusing on how we utilize our resources. That is something we can actually do something about. But don't try to provide statistical evidence of global warming just to "raise awareness" and prove that you are right. You'll never be able to do it. Focus on something that has a purpose. Tell people to go watch Medicine Man again, and maybe Sean Connery can convince them to stop cutting down rainforests. Do something freaking useful for once.
> But they still quite rationally want a nuclear deterrent so they can achieve a balance of power with Israel and insurance against an American invasion.

Israel is no threat to Iran. The worst they could do is make limited air raids, and the only interest they'd have in that would be to destroy their nuclear program. So the Iranian nuclear program only increases the risk of Israeli action.

As for the US, there's no rational risk of US action if they don't develop nuclear weapons. Iraq is no precedent, if only because Iraq was already in an untenable situation with the economic and military sanctions, and the last thing you do if you want to become Iraq is give the rest of the world a reason to impose sanctions. Developing nuclear weapons and violating human rights are both fantastic ways to get sanctions imposed.

Of course, these arguments are a bit wounding to the national pride, but you're saying Iran is acting rationally, not pridefully.

> Consider that a nation like China values stability and plays for the long term, and yet they've been willing to continue backing Iran. Clearly China has evaluated the Iranian regime and decided it's stable enough to rely on. My money is on China knowing what they're doing.

By that logic, North Korea is a stable and reliable regime. There's something more going on here. Charitably speaking, maybe China thinks they can keep some control over Iran, the same way they have some control over North Korea, by fostering dependence.
I am sure I can come out with better facts that will blow your mind about Microsoft than those presented in this blog. I do like Microsoft, Apple and every company that has made or still making difference in our everyday's life. I cannot imagine the 90's without MS and I cannot imagine the last 7 years without Apple. My only problem with MS is that they created a vendor lock software. It was either their way or no other way.
One of the easiest things the Chinese government can do to raise the living standards of its citizens is to let the yuan float freely - By placing a price ceiling on the yuan against the US dollar it means imports are more expensive and its citizens can buy less.

Consider, if the yuan rose in price by 100% it would mean the price of the iPhone will be halved and more of the workers who toiled the long hours will be able to afford one - or they can cut down on overtime instead.

Right now with the inflation rate is much higher than the interest rate in China, meaning the government is actually penalising people for saving too much.

They are saving that much because they know one day, their money will be worth more.

I agree with the OP the "ivory's assault on foxconn" is essentially pointless and potentially harmful. You are raising the living standards of one small group out of hundreds of thousands at a time. Good luck with that.

Oh and all workers belong to a government operated union.
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If i were cam360 id be taking advantage of this "madness" by expending the app to be like that of Instagram and make an offer to google. I say this because cam360 has lots of users and lots of really really nice filters.Creating a network effect (Taking into account scaling) wouldnt be that hard.
Please stop spamming HN with Picozu. Most of us have seen it by now...
I take it you don't count Template Haskell as being “Lisp-like macros in a statically typed functional programming language”?

Could you clarify the important differences between the two, from your point of view?
Like it or hate it, PHP stack is easy to start coding webpages if all you know is HTML.

PHP is an easy to enter arena. Memorizing APIs is easier than Computer Science. But PHP works fine with CS concepts. But it also offers a shit ton of commands that allow for both styles to mingle (often times, not nicely).

I'm sick of "your language sucks" arguments. There's good in all of them.
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This sounds very much like the new version of "I can tell it's a rails app by how it looks".

The idea that the server tier language has a direct effect on the user at the level of code quality we are discussing is naive at best and trollish at worst.
I have a feeling you've gotten so used to deploying PHP that you've forgotten all the headaches involved in it.

That's precisely my point! :)

and even though there were tons of very smart guys, mostly everybody we brought onto the project took a whole afternoon to get set up. To me that's unacceptable.

As mentioned, I can rattle out a PHP environment in minimal time (basically as long as it takes for the installers to run). But task me to work on a Python project, or Rails, it will take a lot longer.

I think my larger point was that for an absolute beginner PHP offers some key advantages over other languages (even you simple description of jumping into Python involves some major pain points - like using Linux, the command line, package management, what is git/hg?).

The advantage to PHP is purely that it is intended as a web language; Python, Ruby et al require additional steps to get to that stage (or, at least, steps that are not braindead-automated for beginners).
True, but new standards don't mean that they get support in all compilers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C99
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C11_%28C_standard_revision%29

Microsoft as typical bad boy attitude already said it only cares about C89, as everything else can be done with C++ anyway.

And as they don't care about portability this is unlikely to change, unless they are pressured to change like it happened with IE.
Outside of the UK and Ireland I think the Spectrum gets most love for being to a large extent responsible for the hard push Commodore made for low price. Tramiel wanted a ZX-81 killer early on, so we got the VIC 20, etc...

Sinclair Research were really impressive in managing to get something out that cheaply, and outside of the UK I don't think they get enough credit for the impact they had on the computing industry through the competitive pressure they created.

The interesting thing is Commodore made or almost made almost all the mistakes Sinclair made with the Spectrum models. Often more than once - they only got away with it because they were totally schizophrenic and had multiple competing teams and were so chaotic that eventually winning solutions came out of it.

E.g. the crappy keyboards on the early ZX / Spectrum machines, which was a big part of making them perform so poorly outside of the UK and Ireland. Commodore did that with the first PET, then again with one of their later home machines, as cost cutting measures - they didn't learn the first time. But they often confined their worst mistakes to a single market, and so quicker saw the cost of their mistakes and fixed them.
Why do you care so much about what other people use to get a job done? Care about what you use.
If you provided an argument with a little more detail and substance, then I'm sure you'll receive the reasoned responses that you crave.

Until then I'm just down-voting you for baldly stating something that contradicts most reasoned analyses that I've read.
> C/C++

This is specifically about the C programming language. Can we not conflate it with a different language entirely, at least in this comment thread?
The TIOBE index shows PHP's popularity began declining two years ago.

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/paperinfo/tpci/PHP.html
If by "assault" the OP (Ruslan Kogan) means "angry blog posts" and by "capitalism" he means unbridled corporatism, where Wall St creates bubbles to better gamble their investors monies, where the needs of a burgeoning military / industrial / penal complex peddle human death and misery for profit, where agribusiness monetized the seeds of life, where regulatory capture by cartels is the norm, and where radical laissez faire policies have gutted transparency, accountability, the rule of law, and a fair and impartial court system...

Then, yea, the OP has a point.

As for Apple, Foxconn, and labor:

Apple will continue to adopt modest labor practice improvements because it raises the cost of entry to any would be competitors.

In other words, customer driven demands for increased wages and better working conditions will help cement Apple's front runner position.

Which I think is quite brilliant, in a Machiavellian sort of way.
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"this is a private website" part is fallable because this is how censorship/spin worked in Russia/Italy: all the big media is private but owned by the local czar. If you try to voice your opinion in those media you are politely told to go elsewhere, i.e. to screw yourself.
The bloom filter could be used in a similar way, you have X hash functions used and Y total bits, so for a bloom filter with Z bits set you anticipate N unique items were hashed. Probably not as good as the HyperLogLog in terms of memory space / % error, but there you go.
The numbers are just mind-boggling.

FB paid $25 per user. According to Asymco [1] Google makes just $1.70 per android device/year. Are we seeing another bubble coming up? Of course one acquisition does not make a bubble... but what do you think?

[1] http://www.asymco.com/2012/04/02/android-economics/
5. I'm getting old, and life is too short to write PHP.
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So Steve Jobs hated entrepeneurs who who were just looking for someone to buy they startup. Following that line of reasoning, he most have loved it when Dropbox refused to sell to Apple.
He seems to prefer ruby.
Presumably this is the period for which it's been studied.

So, without perfect information - I decide.

The thing about the modern world is that you can make informed choices - information is only a Google away.

For example; my specific knowledge of that particular drug is not high. But this morning I found out:

- The drug is well researched as being tolerated in the short to medium term

- There is concern that long term use may increase the risk of intestinal or stomach cancers (based on mouse studies)

- So far the longest term test has been 6 years (somewhat longer than your 28 days theory).

In fact, 28 days is a standard recommended limit for drugs available over the counter. It is fairly hard to do damage to yourself, with those sorts of drugs, in that time - but after that you really need the advice of a doctor who understands all of the risks involved. Again, this detail is available online with a little searching.

There is a long list of other side effects, risks and theories that are studied - mostly based on 5 year studies from what I can tell - and the current view is that those risks are pretty low.

What you've proven, here, is that you've not made an informed choice, because you appear unaware of the actual long term concerns. You've not weighed risks; you've weighed one obvious risk that you understand (and I presume the doctor told you about). That is only the very tip of the iceberg.
Presumably numerous cities around half the world had warm winters. We had a wet, cold summer down here.
A fast moving standard is not necessarily a bad thing, provided that changes don't break backwards compatibility.

In some ways, I'd like the C standard to move a bit faster, to keep up with things like multi-threading (although there's an argument to be had over whether that should be defined as part of the language or left to vendor-specific libraries).
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It was a big shock to Commodore too, apparently.

According to "Commodore - A company on the edge" it was a snap decision by Tramiel to get back at Texas Instrument (who nearly caused Commodore to go bankrupt during the "calculator wars") while they had the chance, because he realized TI was essentially bleeding money on their computers to build a software market - at one point TI was losing $100m a quarter on the home computer business .

So he slashed the price of their hardware and cut the price of all Commodore's software titled in half, preventing TI from raising their hardware prices again, and cutting off their air-supply by making it near impossible for them to make back their losses through software sales.

While Commodore could afford it, thanks to ownership of MOS etc. that pushed their manufacturing cost extremely low and meant they'd still make a profit on every machine sold, they shafted their retailers massively by not giving them any time to shift existing stock before announcing the price drop, and it ended up costing them a lot and apparently infuriating Irving Gould and contributing to Tramiel getting ousted (the other big factor was his ongoing attempts to get his sons into high level positions at Commodore).

But it made TI announce plans to exit the home computer business pretty much immediately...
Just because once you've learned an unintuitive, quirky, magic trick in a language that becomes useful doesn't mean it was worth being added. Many of your counterpoints seem to be "you don't like foo? I find foo useful." miss the main argument: nobody ever said bizarre things like "@" aren't useful in cases where you need them. The criticism is that things like this were just thrown into a giant pile with no regard to consistency, expectations, elegance, etc.
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Are you seriously arguing that all backend languages are essentially interchangeable?

Give competent team A six months to build something in PHP and competent team B six months to build something in any of the better options and team B will build a better product every time.
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