> Right to Return

I think the right to return is a red herring. Jews are afraid of a mass of people coming in. But where will they live? The area is tiny to begin with. These aren't rich people who have the ability to live anywhere.

I think this can be solved with a reparations settlement. It would be hard since records from the 40s would be problematic by now. Names changed, areas switched hands. But that's probably not the hardest problem here.

Jerusalem has always been a problem. I don't have an easy answer about that. Israelis won't budge on that due to the logistics of city division.

> another way is the human rights violations as reported by independent bodies (Amnesty, HRW, and even B'Tselem) which can't be merely dismissed as agenda of the Arab states?

Those I trust. Mostly B'Tselem who actually do the legwork here. Unfortunately, the UN includes countries like UAE/Saudis who are amazing human rights violators to begin with...

> Then, he posits the notorious Mandela quip

The problem we have here is one of religion. It amazes me that liberals side with a murderous religious extremist organization. Although, I do get the distaste towards the current Israeli government and its policies. I share it to a great extent.

> Understandable, but their response has been, from what I can tell, to incite Islamophobia. Remind the West that this is "a clash of civilizations". I'd rather relinquish all of Levant to Israel to have it stopped, because the previous wave wasn't at all easy.

Yep. Israel has the WORST government in its history. Incompetent. Corrupt. Cowardly and evil. Luckily Biden is smart and experienced enough to gently pull the strings and manipulate the situation.

> Sigh. Not to downplay or compare, but such triggers (Shoah v Nakba) exist on both sides, and it seems limitless, this cycle of anguish.

When I was 17 just before the Oslo accord I went on a trip to Austria with a group of Jewish and Palestinian youths. We had this "peace forum" where we talked and the Austrian government used that to sort of "shame the adults". Sort of: if kids can reach an agreement, then you can too.

As part of that trip we went together to a concentration camp. Up until that point I recall the Palestinian kids talking about their suffering a lot. That changed them and I think helped them reframe the conflict. I think the right education, trips like that etc. can really make a difference in the long run. But it requires will on both sides to sit down and talk. Unfortunately, the only people who are willing to sit down and talk are the people who are moderate to begin with.

The lunatics remain stupid and ignorant. During the Oslo bombings I was taking a cab and the driver was bemoaning "these Arabs". "They're the only people who do stuff like suicide bombings, it's barbaric".

I explained that Bar Cochva was an inspiration to a lot of that. Also mentioned Trumpeldor (who famously said "it's good to die for our country"), Japanese Kamikaze pilots etc. He wasn't pleased...

> Don't think the Arab states trust the US...

This is very true. Trump did tremendous damage there and the fact that Biden's middle east meetings were canceled made things worse.

> I think some hefty compromises are a way forward unless Israel believes it can remain a "security state" forever, and wait out a total Palestine defeat (as in Arabs leaving voluntarily).

I think that's what Biden is pushing for. He's supporting Israel seemingly with no strings attached but it's obvious there are strings. Moderation in the combat is one of them. Clear and defined goals is another.

> (ps sincere apologies if any of my replies have been inconsiderate / tone-deaf)

No. You're good. I think a lot of the problems we see in the middle east is due to ignorance and lack of communication.