> If you ask the vegan, none of that works

Yes, because there are now 8 billion people, and nature is on the brink of collapse.

> It's not good enough to tax and penalize bycatch

There are 5 mil. fishing boats, there is nobody who could reliably monitor them. Doesn't work. See Seaspiracy movie for an example.

> vegans start from the end goal

I became a vegan primarily due to environmental reasons. It's a logical conclusion when studying the issues of climate change, the anthropocene, deforestation and biodiversity loss.

It's a complicated problem, and you would have to study the issue yourself, not enough space here. You'd have to read a lot of text that goes against your beliefs. Not many people are able or ready to do that. Many rather prefer to stay ignorant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance).

Some links to get you started (more articles and papers @ https://www.plantbaseddata.org):

Which Diet Has the Least Environmental Impact on Our Planet? A Systematic Review of Vegan, Vegetarian and Omnivorous Diets

https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/15/4110/htm

How Compatible Are Western European Dietary Patterns to Climate Targets? Accounting for Uncertainty of Life Cycle Assessments by Applying a Probabilistic Approach

https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449

Biodiversity conservation: The key is reducing meat consumption

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/

Livestock and climate change: what if the key actors in climate change are... cows, pigs, and chickens?

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Livestock-and-climate-...

Without Changing Diets, Agriculture Alone Could Produce Enough Emissions to Surpass 1.5°C of Global Warming

https://www.wri.org/insights/without-changing-diets-agricult...

Agriculture production as a major driver of the Earth system exceeding planetary boundaries

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320356605_Agricultu...

Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding...

If the world adopted a plant-based diet we would reduce global agricultural land use from 4 to 1 billion hectares

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
https://ourworldindata.org/land-use
https://ourworldindata.org/biodiversity

> Come back when you want to have an actual conversation

About how you want to keep eating meat even if it means total destruction of the environment? Do you have studies that show it's sustainable? Studies not paid for by meat & dairy industry?

Inside big beef’s climate messaging machine: confuse, defend and downplay

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/may/03/beef-ind...

Why Right-Wingers Are So Afraid of Men Eating Vegetables

https://newrepublic.com/article/171781/meat-culture-war-cric...

The meat industry is borrowing tactics from Big Oil to obfuscate the truth about climate change

https://www.salon.com/2022/11/11/the-meat-industry-is-borrow...

The Big Beef With the Meat Industry’s Advertising Tactics

https://medium.com/@jodi_64782/the-big-beef-with-the-meat-in...

If you have the facts, bring it on. Don't talk to me about culture, though (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7JE8j5Ncmw).