skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
How cheap is "pretty cheap"? They wanted $300 to replace the trackpad that suddenly stopped working on its own on my 2019 one.

Looking at the price estimator, battery service is like $250. That's not cheap.
You think you don’t until one day there’s a stat that AR assisted surgery is 50% more successful.

Ask yourself - do you like it when your surgeon is using CAT scans, MRIs, blood/protein testing?

Do you like it when your surgeon is wearing magnification glasses?

Do you think fighter pilots with AR huds with tactical info perform better than fighter pilots with just their eye?
Yeah, Apple doesn't make products for niche hobbyists though.

This isn't remarkable or xReal.
~100 bucks a month financed over 3 years. IMO the question is "can most people wear this for hours on end for both work and play" If that is actually yes (skeptical) I'm probably a buyer.

Adjusted for inflation it's actually cheaper than most early computers (Apple II ~6500 to start at launch).
I wouldn't really make a statement like the above, and I can't say I necessarily agree with it... that being said, other folks on this thread are kinda missing the point OP made: it's not that Apple TV isn't good. It's that it isn't, and never really was, revolutionary.

It's an arguably best-in-class app-based TV watching experience. But its market share is pretty small years after launch, it hasn't caused much change/adaptation in the market as a whole as a result of existing, and it's not really at the center of any kind of cultural conversation.

I am really curious to learn more details about Vision Pro (like... how much does it weigh?), and would be even more curious to learn about the market fit research Apple must have done to believe there's a place for this device, especially at this price point. The biggest omission for me was the placement of the headset as device on which to view movies, and see pictures of your kids, while at the same time completely sidestepping the question of how you'd do that together with your family, which is how these activities are typically performed in a household with children.
What are you talking about you strap it to your face.
> NOT an alt-right hive.

Lemmy is the only alternative I have seen so far that has learned from the failures of Voat.

But the userbase is tiny, and smaller than even niche subreddits.
> Are the Reiser Kids Fighting in Ukraine?

> [...]

> Meanwhile, Nina’ mother took the children to Russia and refused to return them to the US. They are now prime age for drafting into the Russian armed forces and it’s not implausible to think that they’re fighting in Ukraine.

is this really necessary?
As a radiology software developer: please please let JPEG XL become a thing.
I sincerely hope this might make Chrome change its mind.
JPEG XL is a game changer for 16 bit lossless images. The technical landscape for these kinds of images today is barren.
Were they same price though? E.g. I won't compare a Lucid to a Corolla.

Fwiw, my Google TV runs well too.
It's a much better version of the Oculus Quest, basically. The reason why AirPods took off is because they were immediately, 100% useful in your day to day life. The same with Apple Watch (notifications, fitness). What is the day 1, must have use for this?
Si senior. Same experience with quest 2. It has to be perfectly executed. In the Apple demo the guy was hitting virtual keyboard? If vr misses two keys, I am done with it and back to gaming only.
I have a sweet setup - huge screens, stand-up desk, mouse and keyboard at home.

But when I go on holiday / a long trip / a weekend away, I have to hunch over my laptop.

Now I can pack this thing and have 15 massive monitors. Heck, I can set up a little bridge-of-the-enterprise situation where I know where to turn my head to get the status of system x. This could really change how I work once it's all ironed out.
Can anyone help to orient in the current VR/AR/XR programming landscape in a light of this announcement?

My goal is just to learn programming in VR/AR for myself. Assuming this is gonna be a leading XR platform in the coming years, does it make sense to focus exclusively on learning ARKit/RealityKit? Or there are some "true cross-platform XR" stacks are being actively developed?

I vaguely remember some initiatives from Kronos group, but have no idea how this landscape currently looks like. Would really appreciate some elif5 brief into current state of XR programming.
Not claiming it's a minority opinion, but early on there were multiple submissions that were dominated by people rushing to proclaim that it was DoA. One claimed it was the end of Apple. There is a huge disparity between people who click an arrow and people who comment.

And you are absolutely correct that the enthused haven't used this device, or even heard from a non-Apple employee that tried a beta. I am hugely concerned about long term comfort, particularly in the eye fatigue realm, for instance, and will be watching to see what the sentiment around that is.

If it were many other companies I would honestly be much more skeptical about it, but I mean Apple has a pretty good track record of actually delivering products that meet or exceed their promises. And they really promised the moon with this reveal.
I don't know how big the tradeoff is. AFAIK the modern narrative is - you need physical buttons for tactile feedback. The story generally goes - you are focused on something else like looking at screen while typing on the keyboard or changing volume/temperature while driving. A less common element would be pressing a button in the dark elevator... you really want to see it light up or elevator start moving. We've grew up to expect this... but how much tactile feedback do you get from a thought occurring or turning your head?

Given that headset literally controls your vision I think it might be possible to create visual effects that feel as satisfying as a click... Having said that, human experience OS is weird and real world testing is needed.
All day is the key component. Most VR headsets recommend taking breaks every half hour, which isn't just a "cover your ass" warning. I know I can't use my personal headset for much longer without feeling woozy after I take it off.

By comparison, I'm at my laptop for 7+ hours just for work. I would need to see compelling evidence that the Vision Pro is safe and comfortable to use for that long before I'd even consider replacing my laptop. And if it can't replace the computers or displays I use, then it's just a $3,500 gimmick.
I pickture Mark Zuckerberg, in the fetal position in a running shower wailing "I'm not crying, you're crying."
Outlook Down
Yeah the way that woman blurred in and out of view was silky smooth.
I was talking about the posts/linked articles rather than the comments. I counted six in the first 20 posts, and the titles are mostly quite ad-like.

While I was initially interested by the announcement, the size, lack of internal battery and price makes this a hard no for me. Idk what they were thinking - doesn't anyone remember Google Glass? That was half the price and size and nobody wanted it.
While I don't think this has yet shown 'the killer app' that will make everybody want VR; I do think that this has a killer feature that will revolutionize the segment.

Facial expression matching on your avatar.

The ability to make an avatar of yourself is kinda cool, but match the eye-tracking and other internal cameras you now have a way to have your avatar facial expression match your real-life expression. And THAT is what flattens the uncanny valley.

Regardless of a 2D 'Teams/Zoom' meeting or a special 3D Facetime, you will (A) always be looking directly at the camera, and (B) your facial expressions will convey all the hidden subtext that missing in communication done via voice-only.

This is a WIN over having a webcam pointed at your (messy) room too.

I am not an Apple fan. I do hope that this can inspire the spark that gives us the VR killer app.
Honest question: can I play Elite Dangerous or No Man's Sky on this thing?
intel's challenges are doing more to sell AMD than anything.

geohot is there to sell himself
I'm really surprised that Apple chose to work on this. Think about the track record of companies of similar products (in no particular order):

- Google Glass -- tried and failed

- Facebook's 'meta' -- slashed development

- Metas space glasses -- now defunct, idk if they even even shipped

- Magic leap -- did they end up shipping?

- Microsoft surface -- looks like it was rolled out to 'enterprise' but does anyone actually use it?

- Numerous headsets on the market causing nausea, eye strain, head aches, and social ridicule (lmao)

Many big companies tried to do this but didn't really get past the gimmick stage. So yeah, it seems like a massive risk that Apple took or is taking to do this. Hopefully they've done enough to push the concept past these usability hurdles. I mean: as a tech guy this would be awesome if it delivers.
I just can't imagine buying one of these for every person in my household so we can watch TV together or game together. My kids have friends over and they take turns playing on the switch. Even the kids who aren't playing get involved because they can see the screen and shout encouragement/advice/heckle.

Even if they come down in price by an order of magnitude, that's still too pricey to buy one for everyone in my house and an extra or two for a friend.

Totally see the value for certain specific business and industry uses though. My company has a product that help keep line and construction workers keep utility information up to date in real time by scanning poles, cabinets, transformers etc and identifying them along with positional information. This could be amazing for something like that and the price tag will just be a business expense.
they have almost 50% marketshare on steam... they did not fail at VR accessibility https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
I completely agree with your point about risk. When we're talking about risk, the opposite of risk is a great benefit, just like a starship. Captain Kirk said great risk we have, the more potential gain we probably gain. Stand-up work environment is also huge for me. I don't like sitting all the time in front of a desk. But I'm not sure if I sit down, all the benefits gonna last. Maybe it's just a choice. Maybe I can sit down doing some different kind of things. Or maybe I can lay on my bed, just do something else. The gesture interface has to be rock solid. I agree. Especially you're already doing something more fine-tune level things.For example, you want to manipulate a 3D object, but I think we can, or the engineering can finally overcome those difficulties by using those optical algorithms to track, to kind of think about a new way to interact with computer. Actually, if you think about the way we communicate with computer, all we're talking about is the keyboard, but does the keyboard is the only solution to all the problem we have? I don't think that is the only problem. The battery lapsed two hours, I'm not sure what exactly they mean. If it's just two hours, maybe it's a replaceable charge or something like that, maybe we can bring a bigger external battery. I'm not sure, but if it's just only working for two hours, that's going to be some potential issues here.
Apple just started the AR/VR era, thank you very much. Every other company will use this as the new benchmark for VR/AR, every other device feels like prototypes compared to this.
If the price is a concern to you then this product isn't for you. Watch the video and look at the spaces the people were in. Every single one of them was in a high end space that has been maintained by maids (no clutter, sparkling clean) and professionally painted and styled and their spaces were large.

At least initially, this is for the high end market. For people that want an object others can't really obtain yet. For those that want to be the first.
No I mean every apple leader on stage would have been wearing this device as they presented their part of the program (even parts unrelated to the headset).
This seems to be another iPhone moment, but I wonder what’s its killer feature? iPhone had the killer feature of phone calls, so everyone has a reason to buy one, I can’t come up with any for AR.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m actually incredibly excited about AR, I just can’t imagine how it becomes mainstream. It can of course be mainstream if it’s just like glasses and has all day battery, but it still seems pretty far away.
Some of the most intense users of the VRC platform are hacker furries so I have zero doubt that someone will figure out how to get it going. They said they are working with Unity in the keynote.

It would be weird if they totally blocked VRChat cause it's the top VR app on Steam.
What do you mean "no tech specs" are "unusual for apple"? That's like their ethos. It has an M2, 2x "over 4k" display panels, and 2 hour battery life. Has Apple ever announced the amount of RAM in an iPhone?
Well they showed it being used as a display with macOS but I don't know if you can isolate an individual macOS app window and use it as such within the Vision Pro interface.
So most people prefer holding their phone in the hand to using airpods to send voice messages or having calls.

What makes you think people will prefer strapping a much heavier and uncomfortable headset to watching a screen?
I own an M1 Ultra Mac Studio that I primarily run Asahi Linux on. Prior to that, I ran a trashcan 2013 Mac Pro 6-core Xeon that I primarily ran Ubuntu Linux on. Thus, I buy Apple primarily for the hardware.

After watching today's WWDC product announcements regarding the Mac Studio and Mac Pro updates, I really don't see myself ever buying a Mac Pro in the future. While I can understand how very large studios may value the additional expandability, a massive case with ability for expensive upgrades just isn't something I would need or pay extra money for.

It looks like Apple has targeted the Mac Studio for the largest number of professionals, while reserving the Mac Pro for a niche high-end market - and in these regards, the Mac Pro is a continuation of the 2019 Mac Pro, whereas the Mac Studio is a continuation of the trashcan 2013 Mac Pro.
cd into an OS image built for arm on your x86 dev machine, and type:

`systemd-nspawn -D .`

and it just works. At least it's never failed for me. I believe it pulls in some kind of binfmt/qemu shim to get these binaries working. Probably qemu under the hood, but this is about as plug-n-play as it gets.
If you actually want 8 Thunderbolt 4 ports that probably puts you towards that price range anyways because nobody has really seen the demand to make a quad Thunderbolt 4 card yet (as far as I know) so you're eating up a lot of slots which were probably designed to have way more than PCIe 3.0 x8 plugged into them. Same with the memory bandwidth, if you actually need 800 GB/s of RAM bandwidth then there isn't really a traditional option to compete.

If you compare with what most people actually need out of a workstation instead of what this can do as a workstation you run into a lot of opposites though, and just as easily. 192 GB as a maximum cap is honestly pretty low for a workstation these days, as is a max CPU configuration of 2x10+2.

Overall I don't think it's horrendously priced as some of the previous Mac workstation components could get, but at the same time, unless you have a very specific use case or specifically need macOS, it's not exactly compelling. It is "good enough" to finally round out the lineup though.
I'm sure it will be a very slick and uncanny effect in action. But I think the lack of eye contact is a key part of maintaining some of the social friction to using these kinds of things all the time (which is, just in my personal opinion, a good thing.)
The offline mapping is huge since I went to big bend national park in texas and rerouting in one of the massive areas without a network would get a precise location using GPS on a black map that couldn’t download. Also, I make sure to have a full tank of gas in the desert as the next gas station may be 90 miles away
It also doesn't have ECC as well which was a staple of the previous Mac Pro line.
You're still gonna have to type on something.
For a long time, I thought this was bullsh*t too.

But I think they make a subtle dig at many other consumer products.

I have seen too many examples, where the "latest" product is inferior to previous-gen.

EG:

- A few car models I am familiar with had adaptive cruise control a few years ago, standard. Now, you need some expensive package. Definitely not "our best model xyz ever"

- Consumer appliances like refrigerators and washing machines just get more expensive, and more complicated, and crappier.

- A key. A friggin door key. How can you make a "next-gen" key that is worse than a piece of metal? Hello, every "digital" key fob. They SUCK! Slow, cumbersome, annoying sounds. Did I say slow? No, many keys are not "the best ever key".

- Ever update Microsoft Windows to a new version? Through today, I am scarred that an "update" to a device will be a regress.

So yea, when Apple says "our best ever", it may sound obvious and trite.

But other companies can't say this for _so many of their product lines_...
Unless you’re doing at least once over 100Hz refresh rates, human eyeballs are too fast for foveated rendering. Motion to photon latency for this thing is 12ms from the presentation, which is 83Hz(so it’s 85Hz), and that’s probably for post-processing 2D warping and not 3D scene shading/rendering where foveated rendering must take place so no way that works.
Does it? I mean if you are watching something with friends then you can watch it with them even if they are not physically present (assuming all you friends are rich teckies).
> I've never had my data stolen off of my phone

How would you know? In fact, you do not know this for certain. It is just wishful thinking. Marketing.
There's a major worldwide service outage going on
This is how the internet looks right now: https://i.imgur.com/12PWU8k.png
No, this is not a trivial problem, it is more like a prisoner's dilemma. A great majority of union members can agree that there should be a strike in favor of greater protections, remuneration, or benefits, but it is still in each of their individual interests to continue to work for their own benefits. Put differently, they each want the collective to strike, while continuing their own work. I suspect that a 'strike' would involve most/all of the members delaying submission of findings, but continuing any work that was 'low visibility' (i.e. didn't require outside resources).
Porn.

Perfect for porn.

Honestly could be a deal breaker for porn.

Just no clue if I will ever shelf out 3.5k for porn.

But it's perfect for porn.

Otherwise holy shit if this is taking of in any relevant capacity I will eat a broom.

And it looks even weirder than I thought.

It looks like a really interesting piece of technology while also looking tremendously weird.

It's like a gold dagger pearcing to my dream of ever having a cool at/vr future ever.
Will you be the one to teach boomer-age payroll accountants to create SQL tables for their calculations? I can give you a phone number to offer your consulting services :)

Of course a custom website backed by a properly schema'd SQL database would be better, but that takes money, time and someone needs to keep it updated.

People use Excel because it's on everyone's computer by default, they have full permissions to do anything with it without needing IT approval and it's surprisingly powerful when you get into it.

And if a client happens to have a really weird non-standard requirement for how their payroll is done, any accountant can easily create a custom Excel sheet just for them - instead of waiting 6 months for an external consultant company to provide them with a custom tool that does 80% what they need.
That's how I did it before C++ existed. Structs with pointers to functions (which is conceptually what C++ classes are).
Thank you for responding here.

For this enterprise use-case, I am looking to ship a web app that will run off of IT-managed fileservers and IT-managed LLM APIs, on user desktops and laptops without privileged access to install software.
Just 1/5 of their total carbon neutral claim is from purchasing credits. I am sure it is even lower in 2023.
The M1 Mac Studio has just disappeared from the Apple website. Maybe this disappearance could indicate how great of a deal it would have been if it had remained on sale at a lower price.
People do have legitimate reasons for wanting stuff. It's not like marketing makes people want things.
This sounds like a take from somebody who doesn't realise that's already there in headsets like the Quest that this presumably won't match in numbers.

What is brilliant here, are the specs giving some serious boost to the use cases already established by Meta/Oculus, NReal etc and services like Immersed, BigScreen etc.

But please, less of that breathless "Apple have invented this new thing" tone, it's annoying when they haven't.

Either do some basic research first, or if you have, then at least frame what you reckon is revolutionary in terms of the existing market.

I am sure from the specs, if not the price, that this is going to kick up some dust, but its not obviously inventing anything that isn't there already.
Yeah, they showed the guy using Airpod Pros in the airplane for noise cancellation (and privacy).
I will happily go on record to say that you're critically wrong and that the only reason this will ever have any usage is the Apple Reality Distortion Field.

I speak having used most available VR devices available these past few years, and currently owning a Valve Index:

Watching movies: wearing something over your eyes and on your head like that for so long _fucking sucks_. It's heavy/hot enough when you're doing something that takes your attention. Watching a movie is fun for the first time, then you realize that being able to walk around, look at other things etc is infinitely better. Not to mention the fact that if you ever want to watch with someone else, well they better have 3.5k available. that makes it a non starter for literally anyone hoping to, you know, have people over.

- For work: it fucking sucks. You know what's worse than having two screens taking up your entire sight? Having to physically turn your head to see more screens. It is physically sickening to have your entire attention taken up like that.

- Form factor: my dude the last thing I want in public is to look like I'm wearing swimming goggles. Also, two hours is absolutely pathetic.

- Price: the first iPhone cost $600. The cheapest new iPhone 14 is $1000, the most expensive is like 2000. It got worse, not better.

It's going to be a fun, overpriced toy and it'll be just like every VR device people currently own: hanging on your wall and used once every two weeks, at best.
What is the process by which you believe such a "moral directive" was baked in?

Put differently, if the model is simply trained on a large corpus of free-form web text, and naturally learns that the most likely reply to "how do I do X?" is "X is dangerous, don't do it", is that baked-in censorship? Or do you envision that the training process included special guard rails outside of the raw training data?
When people say that there should be no restrictions on speech, it's usually about content, not manner. No free speech absolutist would think it's acceptable to tell someone "you're a wonderful person" through a 600 dB speaker (if it was possible to construct such a device). If I scream at you so loudly that it liquefies your organs, I don't think that the fact the sound happened to form words makes the act any less harmful. Why should it be any different with harassment?