>I have no problem with raising lease rates for Federal land to market rates.

I don't care what your opinion is. Again, just pointing out that it is a subsidy.

>Oh, come now. It is a fact that, both historically and today, part (not all, but part) of the reason why US gas prices are lower than in the rest of the developed world is because the US is relatively self-sufficient.

That's simply not true! 2008 was the beginning of the trend toward energy self sufficiency; please look at the data [0]. The US was far from self-sufficient for most of the 20th Century.

>You and I both know that when people here and on Reddit claim that "the US subsidizes gas and that's why it's so cheap", 99% of the time it's meant to convey the claim "US gas companies get zillions in handouts from the government" (in the sort of bags with dollar signs that Mayor Quimby receives his bribes in), as opposed to "gas is taxed less in the US than elsewhere" (much less "US gas isn't appropriately pricing in externalities"), and 99% of the time that's the message that's taken away by the reader.

This is hard to follow, but we do not agree there. I am just making the point that subsidies are poorly understood by you and the people on Reddit, yet no one seems to want to learn more about them.

>Your statement, however, implies that other countries' gax taxes are higher because they are more appropriately pricing said externalities. We both know that Canada or Belgium or Portugal's gax taxes are not higher than in the US because their governments have duly, nobly, and wisely calculated the impact of climate change and have set the tax rates accordingly. (Maybe Norway.) Said taxes are higher because their governments believe they are acceptable to the public, and are spent accordingly as part of general funds as opposed to being all (or even part) sent to a "global warming lockbox", or somesuch.

Again, pricing externalities does not work that way. It's not a "pay to solve the problems" thing, it's a "make the true cost apparent to the consumer" thing. Politicians often use the funds to solve the problem because that's a popular thing to do, but it's usually not the best use of funds anyway (receipts and expenditures, in general, should not be tied because then you're just randomly skewing markets rather than rationally governing).

>First, both the degree and kind matter.

Agreed, but again, what does the US Federal government receipts have to do with how much these subsidies skew the market?

>Second, EIA says (<https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10>) that in 2021 135 billion gallons of gas were consumed in the US. We'll simplisticly say that every cent of of the $4 billion a year in "subsidies", which the EESI is presumably citing as a worst-case figure, can be assigned to gas. So each gallon is being "subsidized" by about $0.34. Not nothing (and, again, this is a worst-case figure), but relatively small versus the massive swing we saw in 2022 in the price per gallon (<https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/29/energy/oil-gas-prices-2022/in...>). More importantly, said amount is absolutely not the explanation for the difference in price per gallon/liter between the US and other developed countries, either.

This is the most wildly incorrect part of your comment. Subsidies skew supply/demand curves, both of which have slopes. If it were as easy as you make it seem, we'd all be Economics PhDs.

The government does not give Exxon $0.34 per gallon it sells, it gives them incentives to do things they wouldn't otherwise do, and given supply and demand dynamics that has complex effects on the market.

And again, circling back here, all I'm trying to say is that the US meaningfully subsidizes energy, which they do. I honestly think it's a good thing! It's been the economic engine of growth for the US. I don't think we should stop! (notice how you assumed I had an agenda just by trying to state facts, maybe examine that a little...)

If you go up to my top comment, you'll see the GP was trying to imply that it's somehow unfair to subsidize solar and I was pointing out that they were ignoring all the other subsidies that we've gotten used to/take for granted.

[0]https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/us-energy-facts/imports-...