skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
A) No it doesn't, there's nothing in the Copilot model or the plugin that represents or constitutes a reproduction of copyright code being distributed by GH/MS. The allegation is it generates code that constitutes a copyright violation. This distinction is not academic, it's significant, and represents an unexplored area of copyright law.

B) "parts of" copyright works are not themselves sufficient to constitute a copyright violation. The violation must be a substantial reproduction. While it's up to the court to determine if the alleged infringements demonstrated in the suit (I'm sure far more will be submitted if this case moves forward) meet this bar, from what I've seen none of them have.

Historically the bar is pretty high for software, hundreds or thousands of lines depending on use case. A purely mechanical description of an operation is not sufficient for copyright, you cannot copyright an implementation of a matrix transformation in isolation no matter what license you slap on the repo. Recall that the recent Google v Oracle case was litigated over tens of thousands of lines of code and found to be fair use because of the context of those lines.

I've yet to see a demonstrated case of Copilot generating code that is both non-transformative and represents a significant reproduction of the source work.
What a bizarre post. I haven't come to a definitive conclusion on the subject, but "how can I help a trillion-dollar organization?" is very far from my first thought on it. Is this a service folks have become dependent on?
It’s 2.5x as fast! That’s pretty significant, people will spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get a CPU or GPU that’s 2.5x as fast as their old one, but when it’s a network speedup it’s not that significant?
Icky as HFS may be, anything is better than VFAT.
If both Alice and Bob are being truly nasty to each other, engaging in mutual trolling, etc., then I think that would be fair game.

If it's only one of them being nasty, then I don't see why some third person would dox the recipient?

And if they do so regardless, they would also get punished for obvious bad behaviour.
It's called a tax on the poor because they're the ones who often desire it most, while also being the ones who can least afford the luxury of pissing away money. At some point you have to admit there is a deception taking place.
I wasn't really trying to address whether the argument is valid, I was just noting the representation of the other side here is reductive to the point of being in bad faith. I find that kind of rhetoric a little frustrating since it's kind of inflammatory, and, I believe, not particularly productive towards having honest/informative disagreements and discussion.

I think if another algorithm was used instead of ML that did the same job as Copilot, then people would be making the same arguments. I think it's just the case that ML is just the first tech capable of doing what Copilot is doing.
I had some rough spots in 2008-2010 a good 3-4 month or so gap in steady employment and what I did get afterwards wasn't great but it was ok

I learned the importance of saving during the good times so I'm less worried now

but it would be foolish to pretend the growth of many was stunted during bad times
Einstein's spooky action at a distance, between neurons. This is speculative, maybe recklessly so, but one possible interpretation is that these are neurotransmitters. The halves of the entangled pair float off and they bind to different receptors, and do their usual neurotransmitter thing of affecting how the neuron fires. But they are entangled, so theoretically the quantum state of one half could affect the other half and alter the chemical properties of the molecule that contains the other electron. Neurotransmitters signalling through a quantum communication channel. This effect would propagate at light speed, although the subsequent chemical side of it would not.
I met a person who runs a competitor with similar restrictions.

Their suggested architecture was basically to use this for notifications for very remote sensors: "battery below 20%. Come help" etc

The other way is for things like Garmin InReach: "Send message 1" (which is "I'm ok and don't need help") etc.
Perhaps it could be argued that Copilot was an unexpected development, and the users of GitHub could not possibly have intended to donate all their work to be used anonymously and without attribution?

It's a bit like how non-compete clauses are unenforceable in California. The Copilot theft of intellectual property might be viewed as being too far from anyone's reasonable expectations?

We'll see how the legal battle turns out.
Especially the copyright / IP obsessed USA won't go this path.

Otherwise they would create the ultimate "copyright laundry machine".[1]

I'm very sure at least Hollywood and the big music labels would not like that… ;-)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33459967
Time that market.
Authors of code (open source or otherwise) hold a copyright in that code. The purpose of the license agreement is to set out the terms on which the authors will permit others to take actions that would otherwise infringe copyright.

Using code, photographs, documents, or other material to train a model isn't copyright infringement. The person operating the model is not violating the exclusive rights of the copyright author: they are not making copies or derivative works.

Any other result means that all AI development based on training models is going to grind to a screeching halt, because essentially all training material—text, pictures, recordings—is copyrighted.
obviously this isn't a solution to the issue of scrollbars being too small, but middle click scrolling is actually pretty good if you want to scroll quickly without dragging the scrollbar
> Ubuntu is the developer distro after all

I'd have assumed Arch and friends.
Like an AMD version of an RTX A6000? Granted $4500 still isn’t “cheap” but for a dual slot blower card with great performance and 48GB they do really well in the mid-range of ML.

I don’t really pay attention to AMD cards anymore. I’m not a gamer and every time over the past five years I’ve put a toe in the water of the disaster that is ROCm, their drivers, “support” in frameworks, etc I run back to CUDA.

It really seems like AMD has ceded everything other than supercomputer cluster ML to Nvidia and CUDA. They do well in gaming and they can sell and support the extremely high end of ML with mostly bespoke applications that have teams of professional support and institutional backing. When you’re spending $100 million or whatever on hardware flop/$ really counts and you can throw people at making it work.

In the low to mid ranges of ML the 25% or even 50% savings on hardware is quickly lost when compared to the human time sink that is the entire AMD ML “ecosystem”. If you’re buying 10 GPUs you’re talking about saving what, $20K? That “savings” gets wrecked really quickly when you look at salaries and time spent chasing yet another bug/quirk/showstopper with ROCm.
The law will consider "intent". By your logic, web browsers are infringing.

Can you use curl to infringe on copyright? Yes. Is every time you use curl copyright infringement? No. Can you in theory tell when you are infringing with curl? Yes.

Can you use copilot to infringe? Yes. Is every time you use copilot copyright infringement? No. Can you in theory tell when you are infringing with copilot? *No*
"That concept doesn't mean what you think it does, in more ways than one!

First off, that was not a defense of censorship. It was meant as a last ditch effort for an extreme, dire situation. (centering especially on groups who, you guessed it, advocate for overt censorship and oppression) The person who made it popular/created it made it clear that it was not an argument against free speech and tolerance, even for so-called "reactionaries" or normal political extremists.

Secondly, it is a paradox, not a logical point freeing intolerant actions from the logical, moral or ethical concept of intolerance! Being intolerant of the intolerant makes one intolerant. That's what makes it a paradox! Modern wannabe intellectuals and ideologues have no idea what they are talking about when they invoke it today and come the CLOSEST to actually meeting the criteria for its invocation!"

Also:

https://giggsboson.medium.com/stop-misusing-poppers-paradox-...

And:

https://fee.org/articles/why-the-paradox-of-tolerance-is-no-...
In my young days, long before internet, I was given the advice that there are photo clubs where the people discuss photos, and camera clubs where the people discuss cameras. Both are worthy in their own right, but I should pay attention and choose the kind that works for me. I chose a photo club, and learned a bit about photography. Over the time I did buy fancier equipment, had my own darkroom, etc. But I was still more interested in good pictures than equipment. I have seen the same divide in many other fields too, from hiking equipment (vs hiking experiences) to cars (vs driving) to hifi (vs listening to good music). Not to mention computers, language wars, or editor preferences.
> Software engineers are needed all over the place and thus are often easily employable.

Needed as in must have or nice to have?

There are tons of devs creating tons of tech for the sake of creating tech. Cryptocurrencies come to mind, or all those half baked government automation projects where the digital version is in the end slower and more error prone (plus with limited or no recourse in case of failure).

And secondly, sure, they are, but what happens when you have 10 million devs and 8 million dev jobs? Past success is not a guarantee of future performance. Detroit and the car company cities and towns were amazing places to live in, and car engineer jobs were great, decades ago. Until they stopped being great.
The problem is that many people has less money to go around due to cost of goods and interest rates rising, so it's harder than ever to take advantage of lower stock market prices.
> quality-of-life improvements inspired by dynamic languages (always being able to run your program even if there are compile errors, automatic serialization and deserialization using schemas determined by type inference, reliable hot code loading that's always enabled and requires no configuration to set up, etc.)

They get it! Especially the being able to run your program even with compile errors part. Looking at you Golang and Zig with your unused variable errors. Let me do my prototyping!

And yeah, Richard Feldman is awesome. Roc is sure worth keeping an eye on.
It is absolutely wank compared to eDirectory but I'll be whistling in the wind on that one!

eDir is what AD should have been.
U.S. Inflation is 8.2%, though. :(
I read this as "steady work of applying to jobs"
Apple is now worth more than Alphabet, Amazon, and Meta combined
I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make, but I would defend to the death your right to make it.
While I prefer to make a positive comment, I think I should share this opinion for
the possible benefit of other readers.

In my opinion that review is a complete waste of time.

My statement is not intended in any way as a judgement of Bob Dylan or his work.
HN uses notoriously scant amounts of JS, and not at all for comments, so this doesn't explain the puzzle of odd indexing behavior.
Ask-HN: Any businesses facing issues with evolving their pricing model?
Hi all,

One of the challenges I have consistently faced as a Product Manager working at different growth stage startups was the ability to launch new products quickly with different pricing models. Generally it's been due to long dev time and complex operational processes.

Of the back of it, I am considering building a Pricing/Billing as a Service product offering that will enable businesses to spin up and experiment with new pricing models quickly and easily. This service will additionally manage invoicing (tax implications), collections and reporting.

I want to validate if other businesses face the same/similar problem. Reiterating my hypothesis below:

"Growth stage businesses want to evolve their business model to maximise revenue and win new customers but are facing problems with experimenting with pricing models fast because of complex tech stacks and extensive manual operational processes".

If this rings a bell, would you be up for answering a few questions through a short customer interview?

Sign up here: https://forms.gle/RpG8h41kgxKQQZM66.

Your help is much appreciated!
That autocomplete was sort of ok in tabnine, but Copilot completely blows it out of the water. Resource consumption for Copilot is also much more restrained.

Which reminds me I have to cancel my tabnine subscription. Been paying them for a year without using it.
Elon Musk begins mass layoffs at Twitter
From the article

“Most of the time in a wedding gallery of 1,000 photos there are only 1 to 3 images that are blurred,” explains Haanstad. “Also, anytime I do a blurry photo I have the couple do the same thing but in focus so the couple has both images and is not missing out on a moment from their wedding day.”
Came here to say the same thing. It's still hackable to some degree with Monkey C:

https://developer.garmin.com/connect-iq/reference-guides/mon...
That's unambiguous to you? It's equivalent to "you were fired for reasons".
They do: "Also, anytime I do a blurry photo I have the couple do the same thing but in focus so the couple has both images and is not missing out on a moment from their wedding day.”
Because other algorithms don't work this way, and aren't as transformative.

Is your claim that no algorithm can be transformative?
My mom had a similar story of being locked in such a freezer for 30 minutes.

Maybe this is something that should be incorporated into building safety codes.
> Signal is e2ee, and you don't have to trust them for that.

Only if both sides are using clients that are self-compiled, independently-compiled (and audited), deterministic/reproducible or third-party.

The problem is that the network and the app are the same people, and worse than that; they send binaries and expect you to trust them.

I know lip service is paid to reproducibility but afaik the instructions for doing that are 404ing.

I just get a greasy feeling from the lock-in, the heavy marketing, the fact that everyone refuses to speak critically of them unless it’s about anonymous usernames.

A truly good secure client would have worked on any network, it wouldn’t rely on transporting your data over their servers, it would be a protocol that was open to third parties to implement, it would also be reproducible or independently compiled by trusted third parties (like OS maintainers, who already audit a lot of the code that gets built and signed).
This doesn't really make sense, a person cannot be an expert in very many things, and cannot tell the difference between propoganda and the truth. You are no different, the only people who could catogorize the truthful outlets from the propoganda outlets on more than a handful of subjects are the ones directing the propoganda.
It boggles the mind. I was also in disbelief when I saw this post.
I think we talk about two different things.

You threw out random metrics and claimed it is still growing therefore Stripe's revenue should not slow down.

I claimed that two of the largest Stripe customers have their revenue slowing down, and this slows down stripe revenue. These 2 are just examples. Uber, Doordash, and many more companies who are Stripe customers also have their revenue slowing down.

Do you think you metrics is more relevant than stripe customers' revenue?

Stripe earns when their customers earn. My metrics is the most direct one.

Also, online purchase is only 15-20% of all purchases by volume. And we haven't accounted for Paypal, Square, and etc. Your metrics is crap...
Where do you sit in the organization? How do you "get ahead of projects"?

Im a Systems Engineer by title, but have no idea where my place is (its all confusing). I'm basically an 'super IC' on a team - and try to play with other groups my group interacts with... So there is no power to set the design. Basically just answer 'will this work with your part of the system'?

I basically end up just finding issues, POC end-to-end (well outside of my discipline: I'm a HW guy to I'll do a FW to Cloud security thing).. and well, why business does the HW Systems person have suggesting we use PKI for authentication?
Fastmail is the best full-featured provider I could find although I wish they didn’t have a limit on aliases.
Attribution is irrelevant in Authors Guild, the books were not released under open source licenses where attribution is sufficient to meeting the licensing terms. Google never sought or obtained licenses from any of the publishers, and the court ruled such a license was not needed as Google's usage of the contents of the books (scanning them to build a product) did not represent a copyright infringement.

Attribution is mentioned in this filing because such attribution would be sufficient to meet the licensing terms for some of the alleged infringements.

It's an irrelevant discussion though, the suit does not make a claim that the training of Copilot was an infringement which is where Authors Guild is a controlling precedent.
The editorialized title isn't correct. The lawsuit is against GitHub for Copilot not against GitHub Copilot, which is not a "legal person".

A better shortening if the original title is simple "We’ve filed a law­suit chal­leng­ing GitHub Copi­lot"
> However there is some content that its existence on the platform makes me less likely to use the platform even if I never see it.

This really confuses me. Does the fact that people send racist insults at each other in Call of Duty matches via the Internet make you less likely to use the internet?
> Teaching: I'd love to teach programming to high schoolers, but most positions require some post-grad/PhD, which I do not have.

A lot of teaching happens outside of schools. You do not need PhD to teach a group of homeschoolers, or an afternoon hobby club.

You could also record yourself while you teach, and make a YouTube channel.
Memory could be an issue as I have 8 Gb on that machine.

95% of code is the same on all platforms.
Interesting, that violates some of my assumptions. I think the basic model I'm suggesting might still be at play, though. I'm guessing most of those whatsapp groups are really big, so they effectively prevent people from insulating themselves from outrage if they just want to know whats happening. They can't just form a group with their friends and find other channels just to stay informed with minimal outrage and can't find news that's just straight news, the main source of news is the big viral firehose where outrage dominates. Does that seem accurate?

This conversation also speaks to the social complexity that gets obfuscated by some of these big platforms and the fact that things are different in all kinds of ways in different parts of the world. I don't know really anything about Brazil besides some fairly superficial basic history/culture and have pretty much zero contextual understanding of what it's like to live/communicate there. The fact that the same thing seems to be happening all over the world is really weird.

That's why I think it has a tight relationship to scale of communication channels, as that seems to be the main thing that's changed recently and is consistent regardless of specific platform/means of communication.
The two "most important" and "debate" jokes of photography that I recall...

The three most important things in photography: the legs of the tripod

New photographers argue Nikon vs Canon. Middling photographers argue Leica vs Hasselblad. Expert photographers argue Gitzo vs Manfrotto.
I use the Zoho free plan for up to five email addresses (not counting group aliases) on several domains for maybe four years now. works great for basic email!
It could work like Google search where link farms have less weight than higher quality pages. Yes, you can still game it yet it will be harder to do so.
"Orders" - is Twitter now part of the army? Or didn't he simply tell his employees, like any other boss?
I think at that point we'll be exporting it from mars.

> "We've run out of space for the garbage ice. Where should we put the next lot, sir?"

> "The nation of Earth says they'll recycle it for cheap; send it there. And Gary, don't ask any questions about what they do with it."
Thing is, seems like a lot of those questions are not answerable simply because they use ill defined terms. Can those terms be well defined? If not, what good is the question beyond confusing humans with a surface reading? If yes, then very likely the mystery of the question vanishes.
Merits of the case aside, I'm befuddled that a company with a legal team like Microsoft approved this product. Is their assumption that this would bring in more revenue than potentially defending it in court? The math doesn't make sense to me.
And worse, it's really hard to find good teachers, nurses, or doctors in the bay area. Frances Allen used to be a teacher because teaching was a decent profession in the 60s. Feynman's teacher can recommend amazing books about integrals, while nowadays many teachers could factor a^3 - b^3 correctly, and the physics teacher of the NASA director's son ask questions like "which is heavier, a pound or a kg" in 9th grader's physics class.
Well, assuming we're still discussing the issue of whether removing a subset of user-generated content makes website owners publishers, then I think it's quite reasonable to ask whether your publisher would remain solely concerned with brevity and style if they received submissions incorporating the same range of opinions and ideas as social media.
> Sure, you can code, your algorithms are efficient and your CV is impressive, but...

it sucks and is unfair, and I might suffer from that myself, but isn't this the very essence of capitalism? if I'm ridiculously good and there are 10 more people who are also ridiculously good, it's going to come down to nitpicking, because we all compete in a market for this same req.
From what I understand, most of the package-level tools (dpkg, rpm, etc.) will technically work on any Linux system; you just wouldn't be able to share dependency management with whatever the native package management system is, so as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, dealing with file conflicts would be one annoying issue. I think using the repository-level tooling (apt, yum/dnf, etc.) on distros they're not the default on might be harder to do, although I wouldn't be surprised if it also fell into the "technically possible but probably not worth the effort" bucket.
Well, noise/signal ratio is rather a technical problem, which can be solved by technical means.

Wrong signal - is not a problem for society, in my always humble opinion. It’s a problem only for those who want bad things. Silence helps them, not the society.
Honestly, the voting sorts on Reddit are an underrated feature. Being able to sort comments not by total number of upvotes (which I feel panders to low-effort content) but by highest ratio of upvotes to downvotes produces an extremely different experience. I also enjoy being able to see "controversial" comments because sometimes those can be quite insightful.
Imagine your tesla battery life or home energy bill going up because musk recruits you to help host twitter
I find this whole subject exhausting. The only reason I’m glad there is a lawsuit is that we can finally put this thing to rest when either party wins.