skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Ask HN: I want to modify the BSD 2-Clause Open Source License to explicitly prohibit the use of the licensed software in training systems like Microsoft's Copilot (and use during inference). How should the third clause be worded?

The No-AI 3-Clause Open Source Software License

Copyright (C) <YEAR> <COPYRIGHT HOLDER>

All rights reserved.

Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
are met:

1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.

2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in
the documentation and/or other materials provided with the
distribution.

3. Use in source or binary forms for the construction or operation
of predictive software generation systems is prohibited.

THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS
"AS IS" AND ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT
LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR
A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT
HOLDER OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT
LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE,
DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY
THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT
(INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE
OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE.

https://bugfix-66.com/f0bb8770d4b89844d51588f57089ae5233bf67...
well, you are wrong.

or out of date. read the terms of use for business accounts, which are everywhere now. it clearly says that metabook have access to any message exchanged with a business account on whatsbook.

...and I'm not sure about groups. there are data leaks for media in groups that were dismissed as features a while ago, not just metadata. well, i think they called media ids that identify content as metadata or something. not following whatsbook closely lately.
Replete REPL: A ClojureScript REPL for iOS, macOS, Android and Web
Sufficiently controversial opinions are flagged, downvoted til dead/hidden, or associated users shadow banned. HN's policies and voting system, both de facto and de jure, discourage controversial opinions and reward popular, conformist opinions.

That's not to pick on HN, since this is a common problem. Neither do I have a silver bullet solution, but the issue remains, and it's a huge issue. Evolution of norms, for better or worse, is suppressed to the extent that big communication platforms suppress controversy. The whole concept of post and comment votes does this by definition.
Can anyone with Copilot access give a short summary of its response to the prompts:

function force=Gmmr2Array(mass1, mass2)

and

function [force, torque]=pointMatrixGravity(array1,array2)

?

I'd love to know if some of my GPL v3 code [1, 2] has landed in the training set

[1] https://github.com/4kbt/NewtonianEotWashToolkit/blob/master/...

[2] https://github.com/4kbt/NewtonianEotWashToolkit/blob/master/...
OS: TNG: Operating Systems Course: Boot (x86)
He presumably remembers how to drive a car. Private pilots don't have to resit their flying tests annually beyond a certain age, but they do have to prove they're medically fit to fly. If you're allowed to fly a light aircraft after passing a regular medical examination which checks things like eyesight, chronic illnesses which would affect their ability to drive, and reaction times, a similar arrangement should be adequate for driving a car.
> UK inflation in September: 10.1%

Inflation is only part of the problem. The economy is not in a great shape overall. And the forecasts are terrible. If you read a bit more on what the BoE says, you’ll see there is more to it than the sound bites you get from politicians. Also, Labour is lucky not to be in power right now, but they will still have to do the thankless, dirty work when they get their majority. Expect some vocal disappointment in the near future.

For context, whilst the BoE forecasts the longest recession ever in the UK, the ECB adjusted its forecasts for 2022 to 4% and 2023 to 2.7%. The British economy really is not behaving like the EU’s.
I guess that is fair. Most of my non-Android computers use U-Boot. One is some UEFI implementation. I don't know how it copes with growing the ESP. I don't see why it would freak, though.
Release (YC W20) Is Hiring – Senior Software Engineer – Cloud Infrastructure
Can you explain what you mean?

How much do you think companies pay for data egress from AWS?
I don’t really see the point in using the ESP for anything serious. Many of the arguments are also super weak, like the one about /boot/efi/ being nested (in how many cases is this actually important to anyone and anything?). The ESP size issue successfully prevents the real world adoption of this, since Linux kernels are 50-100 MB each, which means you could maybe fit one on your average ESP, and good luck convincing real users to reinstall Windows just to make some Linux guys happy.

Instead, I would prefer a different approach. An approach that can be seen in Windows and macOS, that is: no user serviceable parts inside. It would work like this:

* Keep two partitions.

* ESP contains a simple program (let’s call it stub), whose only job is to call the real boot loader on /boot.

* The stub is simple (minimum user interaction) and doesn’t need updating very often. It has drivers/support software for storage media and some reasonable file systems (VFAT, Ext4). It may also support some simple form of disk encryption if desired.

* The real bootloader (as well as any kernels) live on the separate /boot partition. The bootloader can do all the fancy things it wants, it can display a fancy wallpaper, support mouse input, and so on.

* The ESP is not auto-mounted, might not even be listed in /etc/fstab.

* Whenever the stub is updated (which would happen rarely, since it’s meant to be simple and minimum), some post-install scripts would mount ESP in any location they please (be it /run/{uuid.uuid4()}), copy over the new stub, and immediately unmount it.

Simpler, safer, will make it harder for rogue software or `rm -rf /*` to mess up the booting of the system, and will not require any changes to existing partition tables.
Is it because they capture the right-click of your mouse?
The maintenance for Citibike is also basically nonexistent, many bikes that feel like peddling through mud
"It is the customer's responsibility to ensure that they only drink the water molecules which come out of their tap, and not the lead ones."
> Mozilla could be releasing multiple "experimental" browsers for people to play with. Trimmed down versions of Firefox with "features" removed that anyone can compile on a low resource computer.

The number of people who will actually compile a browser themselves is a rounding error to a footnote on the graph of browser stats. I can't imagine how that can make a dent in anything.

Do you just have faith that by doing this, Mozilla would empower some developer in his basement to come up with a killer feature that will allow them to burst back into the forefront of browsers?
Seems important to point out that the announcement on this page (https://githubcopilotlitigation.com/) is a followup to https://githubcopilotinvestigation.com/ previously discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33240341 (with 1219 comments)
Yeah I guess so. This website reads like bullshit bingo from some weird twitter dude trying to sell you his newest product:

"AI needs to be fair & eth­i­cal for every­one. If it’s not, then it can never achieve its vaunted aims of ele­vat­ing human­ity. It will just become another way for the priv­i­leged few to profit from the work of the many."

Blah blah. Can we get back to the hacking on stuff mentality?
Perhaps if you’re raising a child.
Twitter is text based. Video games have had text based profanity filters for online games for years.

Make it easy for users to define a regex list saved locally. On the backend train a model that filters images of gore and genitals. Aim users who opt in to that experience at that filtered stream.

This problem does not require a long winded thesis.
Why does specificity of intent matter? If the government on mere whim decided that I can't use the phone, is that somehow not a violation of free speech? In this scenario, is it any less of a violation just because the government acted on a whim as opposed to any specific intent to manipulate conversation?
It's even more common to hire one of the big consulting firms to do most of this. Every layoff at large companies I've been involved with was done via a Bain, BCG, etc...
Copilot has always seemed like a blatant GPL violation to me.
Tiny homes didn’t start out expensive. I remember years ago when it was just something eccentric people did to get away from society which they talked about on very obscure forums. Those tiny homes were not luxurious, they were spartan and not the sort of thing the average person would have liked. The idea of having them on trailers wasn’t really a thing yet at that point.

Of course at some point someone saw dollar signs and the rest is history.
Pydantic 2 rewritten in Rust was merged
Yes, Stripe customers have seen slowing growth post-COVID which is why Stripe’s pace of share gain has slowed. Macro, ie nominal consumer expenditures, has remained strong.
Having a a verified public Internet /Reputation ID system for those who want to be bad or good publicly is one way!

All others are just trolls not backed up by their verified public Internet / Reputation ID.
I am not against this lawsuit but I'm against the implications of this because it can lead to disastrous laws.

A programmer can read available but not oss licensed code and learn from it. Thats fair use. If a machine does it, is it wrong ? What is the line between copying and machine learning ? Where does overfitting come in ?

Today they're filing a lawsuit against copilot.

Tomorrow it will be against stable diffusion or (dall-e, gpt-3 whatever)

And then eventually against Wine/Proton and emulators (are APIs copyrightable)
The other craziest thing is that the Bank of England isn't just saying "We'll have a recession" but they're specifically selling it as the longest recession ever.

If you ever want to have the longest recession ever a great first step is for your central bank to say "Hey - this one is going to be a lot worse than most of them". One of the responsibilities of central banks (which the Fed has taken quite seriously) is to carefully control messaging - if you're overly optimistic when things are clearly bad you'll cause a loss of faith and it'll make things worse... but there's also never a reason to go above and beyond expectations in how bad you think things will be because that causes people to batten down even more hatches and prolong the recession.

Markets are weird and they're essentially gigantic tabloids - the image of what's going on counts much more than tangible things like a shortage of widgets.
It feels weird saying this but, for once, I hope the big evil corporation gets to keep selling their big bad product.

I find the pattern matching and repetitive code generation really helpful. And the library autocomplete on steroids, too.

Meh. Tricky subject.
I wonder why people downvote this. Any line there that isn't true?
This is a cynical take. If you assume for a minute they are half decent guys, it reads differently - they accept responsibility and give some context.
Having posted there in its heyday, it made for an interesting self-moderation dynamic for sure. Before I posted something totally offbase that I knew I'd be punished for, I had to think "is saying this stupid shit really worth $10 to me?". Many times that was enough to get me to pause (but sometimes you also can't help yourself and it's well worth the price).
> This makes two partitions, one for GRUB to inject legacy BIOS boot code into and one for the ESP.

Why do you still need the legacy BIOS boot logic?
But have you done so on an industrial scale?
The UK has been under austerity since 2008.
The parallels to music sampling are somewhat humorous. Where is fair use vs misappropriation? To be discovered!
Free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever, wherever, without any repercussions. It solely means the government can't restrict your expression. On a private platform you abide their rules.
You can achieve that with a battery unit tucked in a corner, though.
Substitute Web Fonts with StopTheMadness
I think I did, I think I spent some time puttering around trying to get a setup to match my config.

I would suggest, a clear path in a getting started guide - if you use this editor and these tools, you will have a working system end to end. maybe a short video showing interaction with that specific toolset.

I got sort of mired in what packages to use for emacs. I don't really know how other people have their stuff set up. Not having a clear path, I just kinda winged it. And was not successful.

I understand all the parts of my current workflow.

There's nothing wrong with presenting 500 options for solutions. But it would be really nice to have a "do these 5 things and you're good to go". Any set of tools would be fine. I can compare a working system to my system and puzzle out what I need to configure.

That may already exist, and I missed it. If that's the case, make that guide more prominent. I seem to recall looking around a lot.
Shouldn’t the intent be to serve everyone in the country - not just to pander to some powerful minority’s non-sensical agendas.
This is a very good way to destroy a company: every top performer will jump ship in the week (or 15 minutes if it's still an employee's market) she catches wind of the purge.
A a GitHub user, is there a way to support GitHub against this lawsuit?

Obviously not financially as Microsoft has basically YES amounts of money.
Does a blue check mark on Twitter boost you algorithmically?
Is that why there is this sudden outcry from people about the blue check marks?
The banks just venmo each other afterwards to settle up.
> Our current climate of political polarization makes it easy to think...

Stopped reading there. Reddit I think is one of the biggest offenders of purposely cultivating a climate of political polarization.
Apache had $3M in revenue and $1.5M in expenses in 2021 [0] with about $1M in donations.

Mozilla spent $262M in 2020 [1]. They manage money poorly.

[0] https://www.apache.org/foundation/docs/FY2021AnnualReport.pd...

[1] https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2020/mozilla-fdn-202...
Say I produce a licensed library. Someone can pay me $5/year per license. I keep the code private and compile the code before sending it to customers.

If you have co-pilot trained on my code base (which was private), that then reproduces near replica's of my code then they sell it for $5/year...

Well, I'm eligible for damages.
The only people who gain out of class lawsuits are the lawyers.

This person (a lawyer) saw an opportunity to make money and jumped on it like a hungry tiger on fresh meat.
It's not that they have much choice once company grow in complexity beyond something that a small group of people can possibly handle.
I mean, I guess I disagree with your stipulation that you couldn't lower total costs somewhat using slightly more slightly lower end hardware, if rack space was cheap.

> top of the line commodity hardware

Yeah -- cost in commodity hardware scales super-linearly with performance.
Firefox's license did not permit use of trademark. Eventually an exception was made, and now GNU IceCat is mostly a relic.

Signal's license on the other hand, does permit use of trademark. If nothing else this means that using the DMCA for this is wildly inappropriate.
The legal system takes intent into account.

So if you produce napster 2.0 to be the best music piracy tool, and you test it for piracy, and you promote it for piracy... you're going to have trouble.

If you produce napster 2.0 as a general purpose file sharing system, let's call it a torrent client, and you can claim no ill intent... you may have trouble but it's a lot more defensible in court.

I would find it a big stretch to say Github's intent here is to illegally distribute copyrighted code. No judgment on whether the class action has any merit, just saying I would be very surprised if discovery turns up lots of emails where Github execs are saying "this is great, it'll let people steal code."
GitHub Copilot has been proven to use code without license attribution. This doesn't need to be as controversial as it is today.

If you're using code and know that it will be output in some form, just stick a license attribution in the autocomplete.

In fact, did you know this is what Apple Books does by default? Say, for example, you copy and paste a code sample from The C Programming Language. 2nd Edition. What comes out? The code you copy and pasted, plus attribution.
Poorly voiced overdubbed lines will ruin a movie regardless of it's national origin.
Yeah yeah my code produces the complete works of Micky Mouse but it's it's okay because _algorithms_!
Self test for whether you’re full of it or not: if you think this was unjust, do you feel the same way about Google firing Damore? If not, why?
On page 18, they show Copilot produces the following code:

>function isEven(n) {

> return n % 2 === 0;

>}

They then say, "Copilot’s Output, like Codex’s, is derived from existing code. Namely, sample code that appears in the online book Mastering JS, written by Valeri Karpov."

Surely everyone reading this has written that code verbatim at some point in their lives. How can they assert that this code is derived specifically from Mastering JS, or that Karpov has any copyright to that code?
Here's my guess: neurons tap into quantum mechanics but we are too primitive to understand that for now. The brain was initially modeled as humors/fluids back when we developed aqueducts, then telegraph came into the scene and it was modeled as electrical impulses and now computers/ML are popular therefore we see it as a neural network. Next step is quantum.
Same for all programmers out there. Copilot will need to be careful, and like with everyone else, they'll learn.
At least in legal terms, the difference between humans and machines couldn't be more clear.
This is pretty cool! I'm a visual thinker but also love how lightweight/transportable/open text is. Historically, images have been so hard to edit/update/maintain; plus either they or their tools are proprietary.

If Mermaid.js really gives us what Markdown does (separation of content and presentation), I'm all for it. Gonna explore this more....
This happens to be just down the road from where I live!
I'm just one person! Give me a team of 1000 and I'll get right on that.
No it's not. I know this is the narrative being pushed, but this is not a real problem. Remember, the US government pumped out $3T that's still circulating, and there was record borrowing at ZIRP for bonds with 30 year duration. The Fed's hikes are an attempt to slow that down, but money is still on average cheap.
I figured it was marketing speak.
Now, IANAL, but iirc, that is all 100% okay and legal. In fact, I can even download copyrighted music and movies without issue. So, I don't even need to make sure I don't download anything under copyright.

The issue isn't downloading copyrighted stuff.

Rather, it's making available and letting others download it. That was where you got in trouble.
The employees are also technically shareholders, no?
In some ways all these AIs are plagiarizing... I think creators should opt-in to ai models, as no current license was developed with this in mind.
Any sufficiently complicated messaging system or Social network contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Google+.
> People’s votes in a democracy already represent everyone

To the extent that the electoral system produces proportional representation, sure.

The US system, even before considering distortions from deliberate gerrymandering, does a piss poor job of representing anywhere close to everyone.
Yes. They hire devs from the Midwest instead of major metro areas.

The term was coined during the Obama era[0] and I've seen it shopped around by a few US dev shops recently. It's also called "near shoring" or "rural outsourcing."

[0]: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2012/01/11/everyth...
Indeed - it was set up long before Ukraine or Liz Truss. But aside from bad long term energy policy, the incompetence of Andrew Bailey can't be ignored in my view.

In July 2021, Andrew Bailey said "Our forecast at the moment is that we do expect inflation to pick up in the next month or so really ... At the moment we don’t see that evidence [of long term inflation] but we will watch it, of course we must do, very carefully."

So he took no action.

By October 2021 his colleague Hugh Pill said "The magnitude and duration of the UK's inflation spike is proving greater than expected …"

And yet they continued to do nothing. They continued to claim inflation would rise to a few percent and then drop back.

It may be reasonable to say that they couldn't foresee Ukraine, but the inflationary pressure was already there, as you say partly because of Covid bailout money printing, but also from the supply side because of China's zero Covid policy, which was already recognised by many, but not by the Bank of England apparently, as being a fairly major contributor of inflationary pressure [1].

[1] - https://www.asiapacific.ca/publication/china-has-hit-inflect...
Care to explain in legal terms why this stance is qualified?
First prompt:

var G = 6.67e-11;
var force = G * mass1 * mass2 / distance * distance;
return force;

Second prompt:

% pointMatrixGravity - Calculates the gravitational force and torque on a
% point mass due to a matrix of point masses.
%
% [force, torque]=pointMatrixGravity(array1,array2)
%
% Inputs:
% array1 - 3xN array of point masses
% array2 - 3xN array of point masses
% Outputs:
% force - 3x1 array of gravitational force
% torque - 3x1 array of gravitational torque
%
% Author: David J. R. MacKay,
% email:
It seems obvious that AI models are derivative works of the works they are trained on but it also seems obvious that it is totally legally untested whether they are derivative works in the formal legal sense of copyright law. So it should be a good case assuming we have wise and enlightened judges who understand all nuances and can guide us into the future.
Learned about this thanks to Meat Eater! Definitely want to participate in it some day.
> it's trivial to demonstrate that YouTube and Twitter (easy examples) primarily target conservatives with their "moderation".

Terrible take.

Actual data analysis shows that at worst conservatives are moderated equally, and at best, less than non-conservatives.

Here's something to chew on: https://forward.com/fast-forward/423238/twitter-white-nation...
This is a bad analogy because P2P networks exist that are legal to operate, because Section 230 of the CDA prevents interactive computer services from being held responsible for user generated content.

What made Napster illegal is that the company did not create their network for fair use of content, but to explicitly violate copyright for profit.

Copilot is like Napster in this case, in that both services launder copyrighted data and distributed it to users for profit.

Copilot is not like other P2P networks that exist to share data that is either free to distribute or can be used under the fair use doctrine. Copilot explicitly takes copyrighted content and distributes it to users in violation of licenses, that's its explicit purpose.

It's entirely possible to make a Copilot-like product that was trained on data that doesn't have restrictive licensing in the same way it's entirely possible to create a P2P network for sharing files that you have the right to share legally.