skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
>I'm not missing the point. "Searching for and recognizing issues" is not somehow completely independent from the domain of the code in question. More importantly, different domains often have completely different primary concerns. E.g. web app engineering is often concerned with reducing cycle time because the technology means that you can instantly release updates. That's obviously very different from the concerns of launching a rocket, and I would expect them to have very different engineering practices.

>In short, experience matters.

Is this based off real experience in the field of auditing?
Really the only way I've been able to make sense of it is if he brought people in to produce an audit of changes made in the last couple months. IE he knows he doesn't know how to get that information, but he knows he has people at Tesla who do.

They wouldn't have to understand any of it, just be able to identify where and when changes occurred, for later review for any last minute shenanigans.

I'm not personally convinced this whole incident even happened, but if it did, this is what I think would make sense.
Thanks! I wish titles on posts were accurate.
I suspect that anyone who says No to Elon or outwardly disagrees with him doesn’t last long in leadership at his companies.
I also like to use NocoDB for this since, not only does it produce a REST API interface for the underlying SQLite/Postres/MySQL/etc database, you can also use it to build airtable like interfaces via its Web UI.
Twitter just took itself private for 42 billion dollars. I'd say it was run very, very competently. Hall-of-fame leadership, really.
I read a book by a professional nanny and she believed that the behavioral individuality that you would find in babies already at a few months old (liked to sleep a lot, often grumpy, often giggly) would follow them to adulthood. I think there's some truth to that.
"Full self-driving will come in n+1 one years - I promise"
Ask HN: Would you switch to iOS if Apple allowed independent browser engines?
I'm increasingly annoyed with the subpar experience of Android.

I also have an iPhone 13 mini, but the ubiquitous crappiness and lack of control I perceive with the web browsing experience leaves it mostly relegated to the desk. As you may already know, Apple bans all 3rd party, non-WebKit browser engines.

If they opened up this aspect, I'd have little reason to stick with Android.

What's your take?
That doesn't strike me as being any better; in fact, it reeks of conflict-of-interest. Software consulting AFAIK is not one of Tesla's normal business verticals. The stockholders deserve an explanation for the following questions, at a minimum:

1. Why is engaging in said consulting the highest-and-best use of Tesla's resources, from a profit maximization perspective? The fact that there's a precedent set with SpaceX isn't a justification, since SpaceX is another toy in Musk's toy chest, so the conflict of interest remains.

2. What rate is Twitter / SpaceX paying Tesla for said services? Are those friend-prices or market-prices? If the rate is either too high or too low, Musk could be accused of self-dealing.

3. What kind of bidding process did Twitter put out on these consulting services before settling on Tesla? If I'm one of the investors funding this Twitter purchase, I'd want to know. I wouldn't be surprised if the SEC wants to know, as well. How do Twitter investors know that they're getting the best bang for their consulting buck with engineers whose industry focus so far has been automobile-specific?

4. Lastly, what work would these engineers otherwise be doing at Tesla, and what happens to the product roadmap of those teams now that they're working with fewer resources? Musk is already notorious for promising new features are just around the corner, and failing to deliver. Missing a launch date because supply chain issues is one thing; missing it because the CEO yanked key engineers off the team to go QA his new hobby horse is something else. Such a date miss could have financial implications for Tesla, which would negatively impact Tesla investors.
Also what hubris of the Twitter engineers, who seem to be in this thread, thinking anything they built was that special.

Your video player somehow managed to be worse than Reddit, the perennial joke of web dev.

Not to mention “something went wrong” again and again, maybe by the 4th reload would a linked tweet actually show up for me.

I’m on 25 gig symmetrical fiber with <10ms to my local AWS hub, FWIW
All stories from the x.com/Paypal days say that he was entirely clueless during that time. The board removed him.
> But Musk got started by confounding x.com/PayPal, which does have very similar engineering needs as Twitter.

But PayPal was running Oracle on IBM bigiron machines even after Musk left them.
Building software is not analogous to building a house. Building software is more like what architects do before the house is built. With the difference that we can press a button and a new “house” is built within seconds.
> Its natural the pros will get things wrong cause of the complexity and dynamic nature of the issues, but don't kid yourself that your SO or family members or friends or work mates are going to do a better job.

I would expect "professionals" to do a better job. They don't. Otherwise ... one might point out Kenny Rogers is a professional: he's always been paid for his role (I doubt much acting was involved) in MTV's show "jackass". Being a "pro" means nothing, and certainly does not mean you beat amateurs.

Plus, this is hacker news. In CS most amateurs, by virtue of actually liking what they do and putting in more effort, beat most professionals. Certainly on an individual level.

> If they have never handled the issue before it's almost guaranteed they will create new issues and then cry about or hide behind their good intdntions after things blow up in their face.

This is exactly the behaviour we keep seeing from professionals. Specifically, mental health has nothing remotely like the medical profession's responsibility, they do not accept the consequences of what they do, and they always hide behind their "good" intentions (scare quotes because: pros are by definition paid for their good intentions)

Here's a story of situations mental health "professionals" created: https://elan.school/83-keyed-up

The history of psychology and psychiatry is full of lies, deceit and, more than anything else: abuse. Mostly of underage girls. One might point out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Freudian_Coverup

What was the best-selling product of dr. Sigmund Freud? I will point out his name is still revered by current psychologists. That product was: testifying in court how girls (and boys, though much less often) wanted to be raped, and thereby caused and carried guilt for being raped. In addition to this he silenced victims ... with violence. Not for free, of course. Also with drugs, therapy, making them doubt themselves, ... whatever he could.

Current psychologists largely still do not see a problem with either his theories (they'll say they're "superseded") or his actions. One can only assume his status as the best earning psychologist ever has something to do with that.

The brain is understood well enough to totally discredit 90% of psychology. It has just never been the intention of psychologists to be accurate. That's literally not what the science entails. They want to change the world for the better. Lying to accomplish that may be a grey zone, but it is quite well accepted this is part of how psychology works. It's like political science. Whether some claim is true or not is, at best, considered secondary to its effect on people. Perhaps not ideal, but let's say useful.

For example, a claim that you will find well supported, but not in psychology is that abused people ... are very likely to abuse others. It's of course a controversial claim, but it's pretty well supported. Psychologists will not accept it. Now this, I guess, can be valid position, because if you want to change the world for the better, then perhaps not accepting this claim is the right thing to do. But none of that has any bearing on the truth of it.
I see the same attitude from people insisting on using an "open" Android-based phone that Google uses to spy on them mercilessly, while eschewing Apple because they are so "authoritarian" and sneaky. The logic often stated is that Apple can't be trusted because they're considering the option of maybe starting an ad business.
The Y-axis units are "the publisher's disapproval of current Twitter owner"
> I imagine the Twitter codebase itself is a farcical Rube Goldberg machine.

I'd presume Tesla's codebase is exactly the same.
He didn't want to buy it at that price when the market price had dropped by 2/3 or more. Doesn't mean he didn't still want to own it. Don't think he's buying it because he wants more money, it's not a good way to make more money.
> (1) There are some limited exceptions for places which make a quirky tech vibe part of the experience, which mostly comes up in certain types of sushi bars.

What kind of sushi bars are you talking about here? When I think of fine-dining sushi bars, quirky tech vibe is sort of the furthest thing on my mind.
Brooks was an extremist who regularly posted that “Hitler was right about the Jews”

This has everything to do with the parent comment’s insinuation that political extremism is only a one way street.

Also you conveniently left out the part where he murdered 6 people.

“He drove into a parade some time later.”
Unreal.
Ack, and thanks for your comment. I am choosing to disengage from this conversation, have fun!
Obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ul-Efi1Xys /s
lol that’s what Gwynne Shotwell is for
Are you a Tesla shareholder?
Five Bytes of Machine Code to Reboot a Computer (2003)
I did work at a company that implemented SAFe, and it was miserable. I am interested to read commentary from someone who has had a good experience, because those seem to be so rare.
> You need to write a book and/or explain how you can review 500kloc in 8 hours. That sounds ridiculous to me but I may be missing something

I feel like what you could do in 8 hours would be less "reviewing" and more "starting to get a basic sense of the codebase in the way a new hire would" but when you're the new CEO of the company maybe saying that doesn't sound cool enough?
"I started noticing it was correct based on my own experiences...I'm going to be immediately suspicious of all claims that are served up with a side of folksy anecdotes."

So Betteridge's Law is true based on your own, shall we say, anecdotal experience?
Prompt?
This sounds to me like what I think of "prototyping" in my own process. When I'm prototyping I'm often not working with version control at all - or if I need to track changes over time I'll work in a branch (or sometimes even just a GitHub Gist, which is effectively a cheap separate repo).

Once I've prototyped my way to a design that I like, I'll craft a proper commit with tests that captures the new design.
Watts is an entertaining speaker, but he won’t teach you how to practice.
There’s no reason merge commits can’t have a useful message.

On-disk, the only difference between a merge commit and a squash merge is that the merge commit has two parents.
These events tend to happen because people are escaping a crush in both directions.

I'm sure everyone in the crowd was aware that it was getting dangerous. And everyone just tried to get out and encountered other people facing the same issue, coming the other way.

The cause is lack of proper crowd management because if you view the cause as just "humans are fundamentally flawed", then you are basically just accepting the deaths because we're not going to fix humans...

In other words, just think it through? Nobody is endangering their own life to get closer to an amusement. Well, maybe in some other sense, like standing closer to a dangerous firework before it goes off or something. But not in the sense of being extremely uncomfortable and feeling rising panic, and then moving forward towards to get some more uncomfortable panic feeling because, welp, gotta get to the bar. Packed crowds are extremely distressing long before you get asphyxiated in them.
This is true to an extent. At the extremities, a software system can be audited without any previous domain exposure: architecture, and implementation means (language, deployment, etc.)

It can be difficult to critique choices, specially in system architecture, when domain requirements are presented or falsely asserted as 'dictating the choice', but this can be addressed by directing conversations with stakeholders to nail down the conceptual model that has been implemented in architecture style x, and then the conversation is on more equal footing.

Auditing language usage, libraries, development process, etc. are much less domain specific.
You don’t have to bring a phone. You can ask the server to bring one, or ask them what is on the menu, if they don’t have one.
Lithium can be obtained from plain old seawater. The issue is that the concentration per liter is low so it takes a lot of seawater to obtain useful amounts of lithium -- it concentrates out just like any other salt, and as we know seawater is saltwater.

But these processes are getting more efficient. And you can also recover other salts from seawater that may also be commercially useful.

This is a planetary scale resource that can be "mined" from just about any coastline anywhere in the world.
You should document what the code should do, why it exists, and why you did it a certain way.

In my current role, I've inherited a decade of cobbled together shell, python, ruby, javascript, java, and groovy that together constitute a large part of our build release system, spread across a dozen or more repos, written by over a dozen developers.

This code is undocumented, untested, brittle, and riddled with heisenbugs.

Among other things was a developer who was terrified of ever breaking anything. So whenever he needed to make a change, he'd duplicate the code. One recent example I dealt with is three copies of a script: copyReports.sh, copyReports-alt.sh and copyReports-multi.sh. In addition are symlinks to each script without the .sh extension.

Before I could even touch this code I first had to instrument it to record when it was run, to figure out which of these was even in use, and under what circumstances. I had to try to tease out why the developer made the extra copies, because he didn't document the reason when he did so. I had to guess why there were both version with the '.sh' extension and why not. The developer hadn't written so much as a single sentence explaining his thinking at the time.

So no, I don't expect you to document your bugs, but maybe in the process of writing a commit message, or a test, or some documentation, you may realize on the second thought that you made an error in the code and save yourself from a bug.

But in any case, at least when you come across your bug a year from now, it'll be clearer what the code was supposed to do because you wrote it down at the time, as opposed to what it actually did.

WesolyKubeczek, can I ask how long you've been a developer and what size projects you've worked on?

I've been writing code professionally for over 20 years, worked at companies and on projects big and small, and have used revision control systems since RCS/SCCS, on through clearcase and subversion, mercurial and git. I've worked with code old and new. In my experience, documenting things along the way is invaluable to building a sustainable code base. You may think that shipping and velocity is all that matters and that writing a commit message is nothing but friction. But that hasn't been my experience, neither at startups nor at fortune 500s. Code that's going to be around more than 6 months is going to be revisited. To add features. To fix bugs. Even just to delete it. And when that time comes, having a commit message saves time, much more time than was spent writing the message in the first place. I personally consider it development malpractice not to document my code along the way.
FWIW I think everyone does this on occasion.
That's just incredibly cool, my congratulations!

Foremost, my apologies if this is a nonsensical question. I haven't been soaking in the WASM ecosystem enough to know how much WASM is "just" JS versus ... something else.

Caveat aside, I saw one of the commits mention jython, which notoriously has ancient (and probably incredibly incomplete) python 2.x support; do you know if python-wasm would run on top of GraalJS (https://github.com/oracle/graaljs#nodejs-support)?

Separately, do you want issues related to zython.org in the cowasm issue tracker? It returns 405 (method not allowed) over and over on POST https://zython.org/python-wasm-sw/read-signal for me
The MaterialsScience team works across SpaceX,Tesla,BoringCo
> As chief engineer at Space X

If that line itself isn't enough to tell you he's full of shit you have hopelessly fallen for the myth of his Tony Stark-like brilliance. Do you honestly think he contributes any meaningful engineering work at SpaceX? If he didn't own SpaceX, what about his history suggests he could even be an engineering intern there?
I hope this is supposed to be a joke.
Do I need to be one for my points to be valid?
>Still, the issues you'll likely encounter inside a car are very very different from the ones you'll see inside [...]

There are many systems involved in those cars, there's also many people working for those kind of companies who do not solely "work on cars."

>Auditing code is more than analyzing runtime/memory complexity.

I agree.

>Thats not to say it's impossible for Tesla engineers to audit. But I'd imagine it would take quite a bit of time to gather meaningful insight into the landscape and would hardly be an efficient use of the time of senior Tesla engineers.

Take longer than if the team were comprised of Twitter staff or who are already familiar with Twitter's infrastructure and code base? Sure. But that's the case with just about any audit conducted by an outside entity.
You seem to have fooled literally every person replying to your post, then. Perhaps consider that your reactionary post was not quite as "rational" as you'd like to believe, or at least that you haven't yet said what you mean.
It would be better to find out more details before having an emotional reaction.

Maybe they're Tesla engineers, but they're moonlighting on Twitters dime?
Glad you're still with us.
Maybe you should do a hit counter too while you're at it?
Quick! Force push branch with fake historic commits from everyone in the team!
Absolutely correct. :)
Well for one, they actually achieve meaningful change in the world.

Half the people here work for companies that do nothing but steal my latest PII from my grandma’s contact list “yes share contacts with recipe app” to sell me ads.

I have 3 cars in my garages right now that only exist because he pushed EVs. I have a boat with starlink.

The dude has done more to improve my life than any of the FAANG jerkoffs, and I’m thankful for that
Or you can ask them to bring you a real menu I guess.
There are at least two kinds of femcels, those that think that they are unattractive, and the female dating strategy ones that only want high-value men, and only want to use men, but otherwise hate them.

It make sense given the paradox of choice. These days you can endlessly swipe between potential partners, and even if you find someone it is hard to not keep thinking about potential missed opportunities, after all an even better partner could have been just a swipe away. The 21st century is crazy because abundance is not what our brains are specialized for. The goes for food as well.
> Bullshit. I'm a web engineer

Did you graduate with an engineering degree or do you just like calling yourself a "web engineer"?
Not my experience at all. I simply refactor/improve the code one small step a day guided by auto tests and eventually end up with clean and highly maintainable code. I am managing a very large C++ application and haven’t had a bug in production for 5+ years. Which means that I spend almost 100% of my time adding new features instead of being in debug hell.
Um... free PR for TSLA which helps with recruiting for both organizations?
A “dilettante”?
You say "the new owners" but Tesla is not the new owner. Is it really standard procedure for employees from another company of the same CEO to do labor on the CEO's new company? And is printing out code really standard? Like, if you have the prerogative to review company code, why wouldn't you rather just use code tools on a computer, such as Git?

I wouldn't be quick to dismiss the idea that this is a show.
Not always, but on average this is common and I've experienced it at multiple independent start-ups throughout my career.

When you find a solid leader who isn't a sellout, I suggest sticking with them. They are an anomaly.
> the answer will be zero lines of code.

Ugh, I bet you're exactly right..
Video player works fine for me, and I'm on 20 gig symmetrical fiber with 8ms to my local Azure hub. Maybe check your firewall settings?
If I see the SpaceX code, and it’s full of thousand line functions with a cognitive complexity of 200 I can confidently say it’s going to be hard to maintain.

Clearly it gets rockets into the sky, but something similar is true for all code that hasn’t failed catastrophically yet.
There was a story about this three or four weeks ago.

There is a temporary shortage of lithium refining capacity, taking in lithium ore from the mines and producing lithium carbonate /lithium oxide in the purity required for battery manufacturing.

That drove up the price of refined lithium carbonate and therefore finished lithium cells and battery packs.

Note the "temporary". It's fairly quick and easy to expand refining capacity, but it had been in oversupply for a long time, so people were caught napping.

There may soon (2 years?) be a shortage of lithium mining capacity, but miners are jumping on the bonanza, so I don't expect that to happen.
I am interested. Would it be possible to share the name of the book? Thank you in advance.
Or use nextdns and get this everywhere if you don’t care about self hosting.
Working as a coder in a non-tech industry for a multinational, I appreciate that someone so high up cares about something as “rudimentary” as code.
Goosebumps.
All of this is so funny in general. It seems possible that Twitter might go the way of Tumblr in that goofy policy changes alienate the core userbase. I couldn’t imagine betting billions of dollars on a property that could basically just become a valuable-ish domain in the future.
That's absolutely insane.
Tesla employees are paid by Tesla to do work for Tesla.
Freelancing during the workday at Twitter, SpaceX, or any of the other company just because Musk is the owner or CEO is basically wage theft by Musk.

How would you feel if he had Tesla assembly line workers renovate his house?
Im not sure stifling open-source/innocent coders is the way to achieve freedom from govt and tech domination.
Wasmer vs. Wasmtime
Why would using registers make it NP complete? If there are no registers to allocate, then there is no Core Register Allocation (NP complete) problem.

Is there a reason concatenative languages aren't (naturally) primal chordal graphs? "Naturally" is not distinctive, but concatenative languages can be compiled to registers & induce the Core Register Allocation problem that was proven NP complete by use of primal chordal graphs.
This aligns with Montessori beliefs that babies have personalities and are whole humans, not half baked automatons.
What is the Venn diagram of engineers who are aware of who is auditing Twitter, but not aware of Tesla? Or is the idea that people would want to join Tesla because they'll be asked to do code reviews of companies whose code bases they don't know?
If someone completely new to my codebase came along and tried to evaluate my code I'd laugh. You can't jump in and "evaluate" without knowing context and being familiar with the features.