skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Humans can detect 10ms of latency easily. The problem is more than just reacting slightly later to events, its also how quickly the game/system responds to your inputs because its a round-trip interaction. This ends up usually being where the latency becomes more noticeable to most people. People can generally adjust for consistent latency, but any latency gains are pretty noticeable once you get used to looking for it.

Also 10ms ends up being close to the average input latency of a single additional frame at 60fps, and you just have to look to the efforts that have gone into Super Smash Bros Melee (especially in netplay) to see how far people will go for a single frame.
Translation, for those unfamiliar with internal Google politics:

We have already promoted and transferred all the product managers and senior developers who created Stadia. None of them will suffer any ill effects from this disastrous waste of Alphabet resources.

All our other struggling products, though: we're still fully committed to those. Really. You can believe us this time.
Can we stop posting links from The Verge until they revert their redesign?
Sandbox Tree: "Hold my beer"
I'd be shocked if their contracts/EULA wasn't structured to avoid risk of suit around something like this. Shutting down a live service feels pretty defensible as not a crime or tort, and they could almost definitely fight the lawsuit for less than this costs in refunds, which makes it all the weirder.
What is the social media person supposed to say in this case? "we're working on a blog post about Stadia shutting down that'll be released in 2 months"? Even if Phil Harrison himself were the one running that Twitter account, he probably knew it was destined to shut down but didn't have anything official on when or the details of the shutdown.
They have by far the most awful customer service of any big tech company. One or two experiences of dealing with issues (in my case Google Fi) turns you into a life long hater.
Anytime I see an asymmetric upload bandwidth like 600/100, I assume the ISP is just advertising temporary burst speeds and does not actually allocate enough upload bandwidth to the neighborhood for people to sustain usage at 100Mbps.
Or even more likely, management changes their mind.

It is obvious that Google is battening the hatches for a recession. Economic conditions looks worse than just a few months ago. They’ve already reduced their Area 120 investments. This makes sense to cut as well.

Disclosure: Googler but have no inside info.
So since Google is refunding the likely relatively small number of hardware purchases, the losers here are:

- Game developers who spent time/focus/money on porting their game(s) to Stadia.

- Google.
Does Airplane do Windmill, but closed source?
> Their model, I think, only works for democracies.

I think it's simplistic to rely on that dichotomy when unaccountable power dwells within countries and bodies like the EU that are ostensibly democratic, and nearly every government that is called authoritarian holds elections of some sort and is subject to regime change irregardless.

It is more of a continuum than a sharp line.
How about nothing?
it's a shame. really don't understand the thinking behind it. it's easy for them to detect and ban shared accounts, but it's also easy enough to rip a decrypted stream, even if it is only at 1x rate. not sure why they bother. I suppose their recompense for piracy comes from those manufacturers willing to pay them for signed keys in exchange for hassle-free compatibility
I've been using for about two years I'd guess. I have a pretty fast connection and it worked pretty flawlessly at home. I used it while traveling too, and if the connection was good enough for streaming services like Netflix or Hulu, it was typically totally fine for Stadia. Playing Cyberpunk 2077 at the highest settings while playing on an iPad was pretty damn cool, and meant I could slim down a ton when traveling.

That said, I haven't played any multiplayer FPS games. The multiplayer games I did play seemed totally fine, though "seems totally fine" is obviously a subjective observation.

The biggest gripe I had was that you couldn't use your Steam library or bring your own games in any way. The fact that they're refunding purchases is kind of amazing. Knowing Google, I assumed that when Stadia shut down, that'd be it, and I was ok with that.
If you're interested in how records are cut, Amanda Ghassaei had a really cool project 3D printing records that goes into detail. She later used laser cutting

https://amandaghassaei.com/projects/3D_printed_record/

https://amandaghassaei.com/projects/laser_cut_record/
Love the foreshadowing of it being a total flop from the launch exhibition: https://twitter.com/AllGamesDelta_/status/119683308108220416...

"Remember when Google compared Stadia with the Powerglove, Atari ET and the Dreamcast?"
That remains a lie by incompetence. Just because Google can't be bothered get their product and PR people on the same page doesn't excuse the entity named Google from making misleading statements.
I tried Shadow and, well, you could really tell they host in a budget datacenter with how often there was stutter or missing keyframes (they host with OVH in Europe). I never had such issues with GeForce Now.

Also, I found it kind of scummy how they will not actually tell you what hardware you'll be getting beyond "4c/8t". Mine turned out to be a low-clocked Haswell, a CPU so outdated that Steam downloads were CPU throttled. I used it for about an afternoon and then immediately cancelled.
Honestly I think that he would have gotten a good chuckle out of this.
The main asahi dev is a reverse engineering legend who previously worked on both Nintendo Wii and PS3/4. I think the apple hardware is probably easier to reverse than those platforms.
Hmm that's interesting, there's a guy above saying the exact opposite. I'm about to buy a new tv and this is something I never considered.
Authors for Libraries
MacOS creates swapfiles automatically as needed (in /var/vm). It will allocate a lot more space to swap than the size of RAM, if it determines that's useful.

It's actually a problem, if you're low on SSD space the filesystem can fill up with swapfiles while the system is still reasonably functional because the SSDs are fast enough. Then because of an APFS design fault, sometimes it isn't possible to delete any files to free up space. It says "out of disk space" when you try to delete a file.
You're definitely right for most people, but even 10-20ms is noticeable by experienced players and can be very impactful at pro-level -- e.g. some high-level LoL players feel 35ms ping is unacceptably high for competitive play: https://afkgaming.com/esports/news/ls-talks-about-why-35-pin... (though it probably doesn't matter much for Stadia's use cases)
I was hoping they would open source the technology for this. Also, instead of flat out killing it having an option of running it yourself on your own hardware would have been pretty phenomenal.
Yep, damage control that is: "It's okay if your head's in the clouds. There are video games here." We all saw though that, and we knew it was a sinking ship.

But this wasn't really a surprise since this information was given to me from the future [0] and I said exactly was was going to happen and predicted it a year before [1].

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27039202

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32278255
About 11 months ago, I had the idea of an app for people to share places and viewpoints with 360 degree posts.
NixCon 2022
Listen, no one is going to defend these excesses of capitalism, the tracking the increasingly user hostile designs, the anti-competitive consolidation and rent seeking behavior.

But seriously, you're going to take research into actual human-machine interfaces and boil them down to "implant that lets you buy toilet paper by blinking"? I mean maybe the entire field of computing goes ethically bankrupt, even if the walled gardens and coercive algorithms win forever, the concept of a computer as a "bicycle for the mind" falling to the wayside as computers become only used as a tool for control. Assuming that you have no faith that anyone will ever use it to build a "bicycle for the mind".

Even if you assume that it will mostly be used for Evil commercially it can still be used for dumb prosthetics and increase the quality of life for a lot of people.
That's a leadership problem, not a rogue intern problem.

And I'm sure some Google Shareholders will be grumbling about it too, since this represents a non-trivial loss of revenue thanks to the (IMO appropriate) refunds, since it represents a material change in the value of stocks purchased between 60 days ago and today.
Would they even have linear memory? That's a pretty big assumption. They might also have a completely different paradigm that we would never ever think of.
snooping the SATA or PCIE bus would be difficult and expensive, and if there's an error, you lose data.
I'm hesitant to claim exceptionalism, but history supports the claim that gamers are (a) quick to claim umbrage, (b) VERY vocal on social media, (c) have a LOT of free time to shitpost, (d) have long memories, and (e) are a younger demographic (aka future consumers).

Maybe that was communicated to Google leadership and "Let's pay to prevent everyone from hating us" was the cheaper option.
Probably but the main objective is to keep data safe in the cloud while keeping everything encrypted (traffic and data), all the time.
used it exclusively for gaming the last year and a half. mostly just for Destiny 2, but bought a few other games on the platform as well. worked very well for my purposes. even pre-ourchased the next year's content for destiny as well. I'm very sad.
This says iT was posTed in [twenny fifTeen], buD all the examples are from [Two thousand] and [Two thousand one]. Anyway, for such a deep technical analysis, the regional and demographic variations in pronunciation across 'American English' are conspicuously absenT.
The rabbit hole is fractally deep. Stuff like https://betterwebtype.com/web-typography-resources/ (so https://betterwebtype.com/articles/2018/08/15/guide-to-combi... though I'll warn you it's got a real annoying modal) scratches the surface of the stuff that someone might be thinking of... regarding type alone.
You start with cities and towns of a certain size, but the only problem I can forse is allergies. You can work around that to some extend (no nuts, no fresh tomatoes), but you are right that for some people they will be SOL.

The key is that you can help 99.9% and then existing services will be able to help the few remaining. The alternative is to help nobody.
Ah. I was searching for "Not Just Bikes", but you have a small typo, so I added my own comment.

Highly recommended channel!
Wow, this site is cool. I consistently get ~188, best was 176ms. I wonder what some of the esport gamers get!

After doing it several times it let me save the score.

Reaction Time 181ms

74.46% percentile
Well, I am trying the Elon Musk one and, maybe I am just tired but so far it mostly is making sense. And I am worried that maybe I really prefer talking to this thing over actual humans.

Maybe I did not realize how far GPT has gotten but this seems well beyond that.

Elon
Hello runvnc, what would you like to discuss?

r
runvnc
Multilevel megastructure cities

Elon
Elon
Yes, we've been doing a lot of work to figure out how to build sustainable cities. A city built on top of another city might require something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_mile_tower. Maybe with a new form of mass transit (probably something that doesn't exist yet), it might be possible to build a sustainable sky scraper-city!

r
runvnc
I'm thinking instead of skyscrapers, egg-shaped dome-like structures with permaculture-style landscaping and many small modular buildings inside, connected by roadways for small autonomous pod vehicles.

Elon
Elon
That would be great. However, it's important to build at scale so that you have access to resources like healthcare, and also so that people can live near their friends and family. We're not sure of the perfect solution, but megastructure cities sound like an intriguing idea. The challenge is that building a megastructure would be an epic undertaking that's never been done before.

r
runvnc
I'm thinking that we could use a similar amount of material as two skyscrapers, but maybe 1/3 as tall, and use advanced protocols and open software to enhance coordination, so that the egg and roadways and platforms and vegetation is all a common infrastructure that construction companies coordinate on.

Elon
Elon
Interesting. What about the power source? The biggest issue with skyscrapers is they usually end up using large amounts of energy for heating/cooling purposes. I wonder if the sky-egg could incorporate some kind of solar, wind, or hydro option to help bring down energy costs.

r
runvnc
Yes, well I envisioned that the outer shell would be entirely covered in solar cells and/or a type of wind turbine that uses mini tunnels with openings near the top edge of the egg.

Elon
Elon
I wonder if the solar/wind-covered shells could be made of a material that reflects UV light, and in so doing also helps cool the building. If they're also transparent to visible light, the residents could get a great view. A win-win situation!

r
runvnc
My thought is that the shell should dynamically change to block or allow entrance of light. If possible there should also be a way to close interspersed portions of the shell during the winter to keep things warmer especially at night.

Elon
Elon
That would be great. I'm a big proponent of using energy-conscious design as much as possible. Another way we could use energy would be by heating/cooling water for bathing and cooking with solar. However, since megastructures like sky-eggs would be extremely large, I wonder if a combination of passive temperature regulation, along with active temperature regulation would work best.
That sounds… flakey. Variable interpolated query strings are not even close to a substitute for an ORM?
I remember every single article when they first announced contained at least a few sentences wondering when Google would shut Stadia down. Because it was a Google project, Stadia was doomed from the start.
> I don’t want to invest hundreds of dollars regularly to update my PC or console hardware just to play games like Stray or something like that.

Something like Stray that doesn't really require "hundreds of dollars regularly". Stray plays fine on a 8 year old PC that was definitely < $1000 on its day. Probably not 4K but then also not on the cloud...

On the other hand, it's highly likely that you won't be able to play Stray on the cloud within the next 8 years as providers will drop it down (or outright close...).
Ironically, I bet if that Stadia would've done much better if it had launched with the promise of "if we do shut it down, we'll refund all your purchases"
So are you suggesting that we update docs to encourage users to do that? We use signing secrets to sign the payload so users know the request from us is authentic, but other than that I can't think of how we'd control what users send us aside from just rejecting anything that "looks" like an object ;)

I do like the idea of including a little chunk in our SDK (Coming soon!) to allow them to easily encrypt/decrypt their payload, but that'd be entirely on them to follow that practice.
If you are looking for an alternative, I'm currently using shadow.net for my games, and so far the ping is decent (I do have fiber though). Mind you, I'm into single player titles, I wouldn't advice trying out overwatch or lol on this.

But for 30 euros a month, I got a machine with a full functional windows system and a good GPU from the tip of my laptop.

Not perfect, but it does the job for me.
I suspect if Putin is removed the hard-liners behind him will make things quite difficult for the west. Careful what we wish for?
Well, that's kind of sad, if predictable. I worked with the team that built the controller firmware. They worked their asses off. And I personally worked on and finished up / optimized / productionized the the stream receiver component for Stadia that lives inside Chromecasts.

Might be the last remaining piece of public facing code I worked on @ Google (assuming it wasn't rewritten after I left), and now it will be buh-bye.
Yeah, if I had known this would be how they would have handled a hypothetical shutdown, I would have very happily used the service. Instead I signed up for GeForce Now since I can buy games through Steam and play them there. The main thing that stopped me from going with Stadia instead was that I was pretty confident that at some point it would shut down and I'd lose access to $xxx worth of games. If they had promised up front to do this in case of failure, maybe it wouldn't have failed.
The immutable Linux meta-distribution for decentralized edge Kubernetes
Multiple teams are working on FHE smart contracts, including us, so it’s definitely happening. Adding ZK to the mix would be awesome for scalability and indeed to avoid replicating the FHE computation
They sure do try out a lot of stuff. Google really need to do the reverse an create "productsbygoogle.com". Many of the products are pretty unknown, until they get publicity for being killed.
You can easily observe how significant latency is in videos like this: https://youtu.be/vOvQCPLkPt4?t=80 (Microsoft Research presenting its ultra low latency displays for touch interactions). Many mobile games have you drag and drop things, so it's not like it's just first person shooters that suffer from latency.

You're a lay person, you couldn't have known this, you're using words with very specific meaning to streaming (like latency) and you're comparing it to human reaction times, which are measuring something else entirely. You kind of reasoned about from a first principle in a very Paulgrahamarian way, and it led you deeply astray. That happens. And you're not the only person doing this, this is a comment section full of people who play games and parrot stuff they seen in YouTube, and don't have a concrete grasp of what it is they're even talking about, so it's understandable when it's laypeople shouting at laypeople that it's just a bunch of blah.

One of the reasons I hate HN and write in throwaways nowadays is that the comments section is a better example of Knoll's law than actual journalism.
you still got a few months
cool, so I get a free USB controller and a chromecast?

should've ordered a couple more when they were 20 euro or whatever in that case...
A domain ends in google? sounds fishy
A lot of AAA games presumably got ported to Linux so that they would run on Stadia. Were those efforts funded by Google? I wonder if we saw more proper Linux game client releases as a result, and whether we'll see fewer Linux ports in the future.
I'd say the biggest effect was that consumers didn't trust Google to actually keep their purchases alive for more than two years. Techwise Stadia was actually very good and it could have been a good alternative to a full-blown gaming PC for people who are not gaming enthusiasts.
Yep. Your options are to buy a dumb TV or just make sure whatever TV you do buy doesn't ever connect to the internet, and use an external device to get the content to the screen. There are ads everywhere now.
Microsoft, Nvidia, and Sony have all launched game streaming products without this kind of coverage. It's a Google problem.
Oh my god.. this is the end.
This is an extremely bad habit, people over use it to make testing easier by mocking all over the place. They end up writing tests that are coupled to the implementation, and any small change breaks them.
Please go through the trouble to create the state of your object that you want to test, don't just mock other dependencies, which dependencies your method uses or how it does it's job is no concern of the test at all.
This is keeping me from looking seriously at Flutter tbh. Go is safe, it has a community and ecosystem outside of Google, Flutter doesn't seem to be there yet.
> It worked fantastic even for the most latency sensitive games.

Stadia was cool and I think there is a future for this sort of gaming in some genres and for some audiences, but I play fighting games and it absolutely did not work "fantastic" for them, even living in Boston and having a sporting symmetric-gigabit connection.
Streaming is not sexy for gamedevs. We all know that latency is going to suffer.

I don't understand the pain point they are trying to solve for end-users.

Gamers are used to buy shiny new hardware to run their games.

This is again a case of a solution looking for a problem.
Of course it is, and it's just a blatant one at that.
But without the line about off-by-one errors it isn't a joke, just a straight forward statement.
If you enjoy command line and TUI, I've collected some offline resources as 'ks'.

Plain text takes very little space. Only 75 MB for MDN (Mozilla Developer Network), Devhints.io, tldr, Go by Example, some OWASP and some docs for specific software (Apache, Hugo, Django, Flask, Arduino, micro, Pandoc, Lua...). All Free and open source.

If you're preparing for offline, you could download it while you still have the net:

https://terokarvinen.com/2022/ks-kanasirja-offline-tui-dicti...
So.. what's your point? Are you saying that Google saying they're not shutting down 60 days ago was wrong? Or that the current post is wrong? Or that neither should be trusted? Or..?
I knew someone who worked on Stadia a few years ago. They left Google shortly after. I don't know how universal it is, but in that case working on non-core-ads-business stuff there sounded like a bit of a mess (unless it was just Stadia).
After negative news, it’s pretty safe to assume thr opposite when PR / Marketing says something like “we wont be shutting down” or when a CEO says “there wont be any layoffs”.

If you read between the lines, those kind of announcements can usually be a good indicator of the appropriate “time to adapt”, whether that be to prepare for a layoff or to start buying IP on a survivable platform.
I am looking at something similar - generating 200-ish usable images in a shoot with 20 people, sending photos for approval to each person and retouching their top selections.

Especially when dealing with high profile individuals and want to generate individual galleries.
The rules of the presumed host universe are unknown, but which do you guess is more common in ours? trillions upon trillions of rocks, may of them probably covered in organic goo interacting with itself, or intellectually sophisticated computer scientists deliberately designing simulations? I think it's got to be the goo.
If Your Quiet Quitting Is Going Well, You Might Be Getting ‘Quiet Fired’
Jitter is what really kills it. I found out that my ISP (who own switches in the basement) limits bandwidth based on a rolling time window, so whenever someone in the house starts a download they can briefly saturate the entire link. Wish they'd know how to configure QoS on their very expensive network gear.
> And while Stadia's approach to streaming games for consumers was built on a strong technology foundation

This line is so telling of Google's culture...

No one cares if your product has a "strong technology foundation". Users only care that they get something out of the product. Google doesn't get this. They think as long as the tech is strong, that's all you need for a successful product.
I disagree. Low power is currently the lead design principle in modern hardware, anywhere from consumer hardware to enterprise data centers. The least common denominator of a powerful personal computer - the modern gaming console (Xbox Series X or PS5) is already silent and you can't hear the fan. I can't imagine them going fanless in the next couple generations, but who knows what'll happen after that.
The bigger issue is jitter. People can compensate for consistent delay (e.g. by leading shots in an FPS game). But when the delay is inconsistent and varies quickly, it becomes much more difficult to anticipate movements and execute time-sensitive maneuvers.