skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
There are plenty of laws that prohibit speech used that is a call for violence.

>Under Texas law, any threat of violence to either person or property can be the basis of a terroristic threat charge. However, that threat of violence must be accompanied with criminal intent to either follow through with the threat or terrify another into believing you may do so. There are six specific types of intent covered by Texas law, and the prosecutor only needs to prove you had one of them to obtain a conviction.

cause a reaction of any type to his threat by an official or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies;

place any person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury;

prevent or interrupt the occupation or use of a building, room, place of assembly, place to which the public has access, place of employment or occupation, aircraft, automobile, or other forms of conveyance, or other public places;

cause impairment or interruption of public communications, public transportation, public water, gas, or power supply or other public services;

place the public or a substantial group of the public in fear of serious bodily injury; or
influence the conduct or activities of a branch or agency of the federal government, the state, or a political subdivision of the state.
That’s not a program
you’re running on your personal brain-computer, it’s a fixed-function DSP. You can’t reuse it to do other tasks in a way a computer could with such a DSP either - eg you can’t accurately simulate ball throwing in your head.
> EDIT: Also, “We find that several providers are disproportionately responsible for serving misinformation websites, most prominently Cloudflare”

Cloudflare is disproportionately responsible for serving all websites.
Some of my childhood consulting was in dBase II and III+, and bought a copy of the compatible FoxBase+, to deliver my own database apps to clients who didn't already have dBase. (I also did at least one point-of-sale system using Turbo Database Toolbox.)

There are a lot of resemblances of CRUD Web/app programming to 1980s PC database applications. Including things like many people using high-level frameworks/DSLs/painters for forms and reports, and sometimes getting much better results by being able to write code at a lower level.

Pretty much all the coding we do today could be learned by a 12-year-old. (Product/project/politics experience takes longer, and judgment hasn't fully leveled up yet.)
>I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare and assuming good faith I believe them when they say there are legitimate threats to body and person.

There are "legitimate threats to body and person." on every chat platform everyday. Yet they are still operating.

Could this offending content not be reported to moderators and admins?

Edit: Just flag and downvote me with no reply, good discussion. This site is turning into facebook/reddit.
Is it really though? If so, then more than half the rappers would of been locked up for this by now.

I suppose who ever put such a law in US court system is holding their breath for the guy who got on International TV / web streaming / a huge crowd of people in Ferguson (?) and said 'burn this bitch down' - burn this mutherfucker down.. [1]

I dunno, maybe he was arrested for this and it is a real thing, if so I missed the news about it.

Or maybe it's technically possible to have to go to court for such a thing, but maybe only a few ever have, and the outcome of such a thing is anyone's guess, even those really into speech law [2]

[1] - https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/25/us/michael-brown-stepfather-v...
[2] - Imminent lawless action test still being fleshed out - https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/970/incitement-...
This book made a lot of things click for me.

External (inter-domain) vs internal (domain) events was super useful to understand.

If you’re trying some idealised event driven architecture I feel this book, and later either Domain Modelling Made Functional (F#) or Domain Driven Design with .NET core could be of use (though this definitely does enough detail on its own).

I think the external events imho are the only must have though. Within the micro service or domain I don’t think event driven is necessarily cleaner or easier Vertical Slice, Clean/Onion, or even layered.
I’ve tried using Twilio in the past to automate 2FA for a shared team account and the number just got rejected everywhere I tried. This would be great if it works but given that defeating this isn’t one of the selling points on the main page I’d guess that it’s not something that has been considered.
Just because you still have to physically drive from A to B and could theoretically find your way without a map does not make the map a placebo.
Wow, good for you and thanks for the warning
A properly managed newly grown forest will continue to be net-carbon-negative for at least 4-5 decades or more, and after that net-zero if not burned or reduced in size.

We need to sequester large amounts of carbon in the next two decades to avoid falling off the cliff of greater than 2 or 2.5 degree warming.

Ergo, planting well-thought out forests in large quantities, which has no known downsides, and large upsides is one of the actions we must do.

Not to mention that trees have excellent effects on local climate, on local pollution, on local human health, which are all great reasons besides carbon capture for planting more trees.
Have KF users ever taken credit for SWATing? It's my impression that they were - or at least Moon - always careful about not crossing the legal line.
Exactly. The distinction needs to be a very, very bright and clear line legally. If it's fuzzy, then the fuzziness will be pushed and pushed using plausible deniability.
> either platform it or you don’t, and you’re either legislated to do so or not. What middle ground do you see that allows this degree of free speech without platforming hate?

Nobody has been legislated to do anything here. Cloudflare is dumping Kiwifarms. There are other hosts. That's one middle ground: a diversity of opinions on what constitutes unacceptable speech. Here's another: the government has no right shutting down Kiwifarms in the absence of a true threat [1], but Cloudflare is free to.

If you look at the history of communication technologies, particularly public ones (e.g. the printing press and television), this pattern recapitulates. An idealistic explosion of creativity. Weaponisation. Scrambling alongside states over-reacting. Then a middle ground.

We don't have anything close to consensus on the Internet, save perhaps for X-rated content. So private actors are figuring things out. We'll probably see a government response carving out protections for both speech and platforms, though hopefully nothing as onerous as what was done with TV [2]. And then over decades an equilibrium will arise. An equilibrium between "de-shrining free speech" and "entrench[ing]hatred."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_threat

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_State...
And this is why I'm never letting my kids use the internet.
The north africans of roman times have almost nothing in common with the modern arab north africans. The Carthaginians in north africa during roman times were more similar to modern Portuguese.

https://www.heritagedaily.com/2016/05/ancient-dna-study-find...
There will be a day where the cloud becomes something like the OS
Been coding since 1983. Full-time, since about 1985-6. I'm 60.

Besides dealing with folks that don't like gray hair, it's been a blast.

I code for free, and for fun, these days.
You've picked a very specific time period here (1933-1945). I presume this is because that is the period where the Nazis were in control of Germany.

This might be an apt comparison if the groups in question controlled a government, but I fear you're forgetting how the Nazis got there. The NSDAP spent a good chunk of the 20s holding large rallies in places they weren't welcome and inciting the local populace until fights broke out (there's a particularly famous brawl that happened in the Wedding district of Berlin). Then they used the resulting media coverage to justify building up a large para-military force (the SA and later the SS) in a weird form of political judo.

I worry that actions like the one cloudflare has taken add to the appeal for a certain type of people for fighting giant organizations as the underdog. There are certain organizations and/or events where fighting against them gives them the publicity they need to attract recruits and succeed.

You should also be careful because we seem to be going into a recession and the right generally benefits from such times (and immediately after). Giving them extra publicity might be a very bad idea.

Sci-Hub link about the right thriving during economic recessions/depressions: https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.euroecorev.2016.03.006
Big discussion here already, currently at the top of the front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32706673
When your product looked like this, it was really hard to compete against new products coming to windows with winform

https://winworldpc.com/res/img/screenshots/2x-841fe628c2d754...

vs.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/winforms/adv...
I remember. I never imagined Is ever actually get any friends to play along with me but I also never imagined there'd be a sequel!
> having a documented history of not acting like a utility

Elaborate, please?
Probably one of the first low code tools in history. Still know solid companies built on top of fox pro solutions, gaining lot of money with simple UIs and BDs
You are talking about simple theft, not fraud. Theft is always possible. Fraud is not possible with bitcoin. Not sure why I was downvoted.
When the topic under discussion are the contents of a publicly available website, unless you think that Cloudflare has some kind of tooling scanning for specific terms on the CDN origin (why?), no, I am pretty confident in saying they do not have any additional information. This is not some arcane matter of network management, this is the public contents of a public website that anyone can verify.
There are "bomb and shoot threats over the last few days" on FB, Messenger, Telegram, Signal, CoD/CS lobbies etc everyday. Like Kiwifarms the content is removed when reported. What is the issue?
You're not serious? DC looks pretty expensive for an average worker, from a quick look at apartments.com. Housing is cheap in the South and in rural areas for sure, but any West Coast/northern East Coast city is very expensive. Suburbs used to be cheap but now are not so cheap after COVID+inflation.

Perhaps your expectations are calibrated based on European cities which also have housing shortages, like Berlin and London.
> There were no good choices for Cloudflare here ...

I couldn't disagree more. Just cut off sites for organized harassment and nazis immediately. If you're able to, hand over any archives you have to law enforcement. Don't even talk about it. Just let such sites disappear one day. Don't give them any more attention.

Could you be breaching a contract? Maybe. But who cares? You think the KF owners are going to reveal themselves and sue? Let them.

This is what I find infuriating about the US media and many people in general: there's way too much effort spent on trying to appear neutral by bothsidesing every issue.

If CNN existed in 1938 Germany, after Kristallnacht [1], CNN talking heads would've gone on the air and said "sure a lot of Jews were killed, their homes and businesses ransacked and the authorities looked on without intervening but the perpetrators say they asked for it. Let's hear what this spokesman has to say."

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht
It's not state sponsored. They merely provided tests for free and parents chose to abort. Nowhere did the government force them.
Unfortunately internet discourse in the last 10 years has tended to descend into echo chambers. If you’ve managed to avoid interactions with the content being posted there and in other spaces like it, you have done quite well.

Worse than that, the mentality pushed forth in echo chambers like this seems to crystallise peoples thoughts, to the point that alternative thoughts to the zeitgeist therein these spaces are not tolerated or even heard without revulsion or aggression.

I’ve seen this in both the extremes of Right wing and Left wing politics in the last ten years.

Currently in my opinion, the extreme right wing seems to be the more dangerous of the two. In part due to the volume of adherents to the ideology and the secondly proportion of people within who are die-hard adherents, thirdly globally, the political centre appears to be a good bit further to the right of where it was 20 years ago, it seems that more extreme right wing political thought is more accepted now.
> "trips" that instead of going deep into your own mind, they just enjoy [stuff]

Those are also not mutually exclusive, to be clear. Come for the dance, stay for the self-insight.
Most eliminationist rhetoric is still protected in the States under current precedent. It advocates unlawful action but without "imminency". It could have been forbidden under the old "clear and present danger" standard.

Forbidden eliminationist rhetoric is quite rare and would be something like the "cockroach" broadcasts in Rwanda.
CF's statement says "imminent and emergency threat to human life". What do you think that means that it didn't mean 48 hours ago?
> But I do tend to peruse extremist circles on both sides to understand the radicalism a little better, and generally think that keeping these folks relegated to unseen areas is net-negative.

Why net-negative? If it is accessible online (and it must be, otherwise how do they communicate?) then one can still peruse, have a pulse on it.
If you want a termination notice you should work with a hosting provider that guarantees one in their terms. I wouldn't be surprised if most providers have special clauses that entitle them to cut you off instantly, though. There are probably cases where law enforcement would demand that they do it anyway.
Good. Now that we've finally established that Cloudflare isn't impotent after all, it's time to go down the list. No more faux "conversations." This isn't the only site they already know they need to drop.
Software is simply not valued in Europe, and not because there aren't amazing developers there -- there are many. But software isn't considered important

In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team struggles to deliver valuable projects.

Later management changes their mind and decides to pay better salaries. They go to hire software engineers, and how do they even tell who the great software engineers are? Often they end up just paying more to the same not-so-great team, and watching as what they thought was an investment in software quality does not pay off.

I don't think this is specific to Europe, either - it can happen to any organization that hires a lot of inexpensive software engineers, in the US too. It's hard to get out of the "cheap software engineers" trap.
It won't take a month and they have the next request.
Whose speech have they tried to limit? Ironically, there's been a focused attempt to limit the speech of KiwiFarms.
> Where does it specifically say in the US Constitution that you’re allowed to incite violence? :-)

You mean lawless violence. :-)

I would bet calls for killing some private citizen (e.g. agitating, “kill Rodney Dangerfield”) would not survive as protected speech in the courts anymore.
This is a good policy. Security people are universally annoying and full of themselves. Many other kinds of bugs (accessibility, performance, bad UI copy) harm users and none of them go around having cool Vegas conferences, giving names and logos to all their bugs, and seeming to think they’re characters in The Matrix.

I propose that anyone who gives a talk about anything first apologize for causing people to perceive them.
> I would recommend you stop posting

Can we not turn HN a place where we shit on CEOs for actually being openly communicative and cutting through the bullshit?

The fact Matt is here talking about stuff you yourself think "his lawyers would disapprove of" is a great quality of this site.
regardless of ones feelings about unions, instead of trying to crush unions, why don't they try to just make the workplace/pay better so people feel the need?
>”wow, if they could do that to nazis they could do that to me (not a nazi)!”

Yes, that is literally the concern. Activists hurl around the Nazi label with reckless abandon, showing little to no restraint when foisting the label on people they disagree with. There is also a sentiment taking hold that not being enthusiastically anti-Nazi makes you a Nazi sympathizer.

So yes, people have some reasonable reservations about where this could go, without having any real Nazi sympathies.

”wow, if they could do that to heretics, they could do the same thing to me (not a heretic)!”
Yeah, I'll go with that. The fact that it's "in cyberspace" doesn't mean that normal laws don't apply.
> None of this has been include in NBC or anyone else’s reports, except Kiwi Farms and one radical feminist blog.

Interesting sources, there.

You don't have to Archive those. I can link to them right here:

https://diyhrt.wiki/

If anyone out there is in need of HRT but does not have access to it - or can not get access to it - please check out that link.
The second and third 90% can be challenging.
So we have privatised the legislative and police on the internet? What that means we shall see in ten years or so.

Why are crimes committed on KF not stopped “the old fashioned way”, ie rule of law and the court system?
> In this case, the provocative title isn't supported by the contents so it'll leave most readers disappointed.

One problem is with Hacker News itself: it makes no space for context other than an article title.

Whereas the gist was originally posted by the author in a tweet that said "Wrote a guide on how I keep homebrew in its place" and also had a screenshot of some of the article contents. And the people who would see it were those who followed the author (a lot of Mac admins).

HN submitters are not supposed to editorialize an article title. But, maybe HN should make room for an article summary that does editorialize!

Google search results for example have a little summary too, not just a link and a title. So you can make some kind of judgment about the content before clicking.

> it'll definitely rub people the wrong way to not to contribute but have a “Why Wasn't I Consulted!?!” post

How is this one such a post?

To be clear, though, there are some people who only use homebrew because some project requires it, and not because they want to use homebrew. So contributing to homebrew is the last thing they'd want to do, even though they use it sometimes, reluctantly.

It's fairly common for the cheapest thing to become the most popular thing, even if it turns out to be one of the worst things possible. Cheap and free too often crowd out better possibilities. With that in mind, I don't take "they provide it for free" to make something immune from criticism. My unpopular opinion is that there's actually too much open source in the world, and software developers are undermining themselves in the race to the bottom.

> Many of the comments here seem like meta-discussion to the submitter.

Well, I think it's unfair to take that out on the article author, who did not submit it to HN.

For whatever reason, HN does not allow downvoting of articles, only upvoting. I would take that up with dang. :-)

On the other hand, the article does contain useful instructions that are worthwhile for some people.
If they're already born then obviously there's nothing to do. However, what I'm talking about is the same as the abortion debate, about allowing a parent to choose whether they want to rear a child or not.
Their Twitter denial of service protection is pretty weak.
While I agree that Tolkien likely viewed the races of men, elves, and dwarves to be white, and a show that seeks to adapt his mythology while having a diverse cast will stray from Tolkien's vision, we run into an interesting problem: a LOT of money is being spent on this show. Amazon reportedly spent 250 million to acquire the rights, and another 500 million on the first season. The US Bureau of Labor Statisitics says that there are 51,600 working actors, and they earn on average $23.48 an hour. Assuming 2000 hours a year, that's $2.4 billion spent on acting a year, putting Amazon's current budget of $750 million at roughly a fourth of all money spent on acting. With this in mind, if Amazon were to only hire white actors, in order to be equitable towards those of other races, we would need to guarantee that $250 million went to projects with actors of other races, and those projects would need to be entirely multi-racial. If said projects were in abundance, than I wouldn't be opposed to an all white Rings of Power, but considering that the highest budget project with a majority multi-racial cast I can think of is Nope with a budget of $50 million (and even then there are still white actors), if a company wants to make a nearly $1 billion show, it is necessary for there to be at least some actors of other races. If the show had half the budget, or if there were more projects written by and for a black audience, then I would prefer that it is acted by only white people, but as it stands now, it makes sense for there to be diversity.
Lastly here is proof that another individual unaffiliated with KF was the one that left the note outside of the apartment-
https://archive.ph/ksqln
https://archive.ph/MCGFB
And, just like that, the internet lost one of its most staunch defenders. I don't care for KF nor did I used to care about 8chan or stormfront, but it just shows that all the grandstanding from Matthew Prince was for show all along. and the worst of all? its fro nothing, the people doing whatever they were being accused of, which i'm still trying to piece together, are just gonna be in discords or the nth-chan that shows up to host it.

Well I hope he enjoys suddenly having his huge customers from saudi arabia or whatever else start calling things worrysome and prey on that weakness.
I think as a private company they made the right decision. At some point you have to just make a call and cut out the cancer.
> However, as the pressure campaign escalated, so did the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site. Feeling attacked, users of the site became even more aggressive. Over the last two weeks, we have proactively reached out to law enforcement in multiple jurisdictions highlighting what we believe are potential criminal acts and imminent threats to human life that were posted to the site.

I’m sorry, but what?

Few thoughts:

1. Couldn’t people be joining Kiwifarms and acting aggressive to get it banned?

2. Why is cloudflare reporting anything to police? That’s effectively implying they are regularly reviewing content… which is weird if your providing DDoS protection.

The main issue I take is that cloudflare isn’t hosting the content… it’s providing protection from DDoS. So kiwifarms is literally having their security turned on them.

That is imo a breach of contract. It’s one thing to just drop them as a customer it’s another to:

> Visitors to any of the Kiwifarms sites that use any of Cloudflare's services will see a Cloudflare block page and a link to this post.

You’re hijacking their website and saying “read our content” instead.