skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
My reading of that blog post and this one is that they now think that cutting off service to the Daily Stormer and 8chan was the wrong call.

"While we believe that in every other situation we have faced — including the Daily Stormer and 8chan — it would have been appropriate as an infrastructure provider for us to wait for legal process, in this case the imminent and emergency threat to human life which continues to escalate causes us to take this action."
Since perfect accuracy is impossible, you must choose a balance between precision and recall.
The bartender example is so wrong that it has wrapped around into rightness.

What really happens is that the bartender signals the cooler to throw out said patrons to settle it some place where it isn't their liability. It goes to the street, who knows where and what they'll do to each other.

And that's pretty much what cloudflare is doing here, saying "you can't do this in here" and now we get to see where the chips fall.
It always starts as a one off, "this was a special circumstance" type thing. I feel like I've read this post thousand times before at this point. I remember when it "just Alex Jones" getting deplatformed from social media. And it had to be done - he was just too dangerous! But then it expanded to a few more people, and from there a few more. And within the span of just a few years Twitter had gone from Alex Jones to banning the president of the United States.

I don't care what Kiwifarms did, this kind of thing has to be left to state. If Kiwifarms is doing something illegal law enforcement will deal with it. This move means Cloudflare is now a company that will remove content they find problematic. Or put another way, if they don't remove content we can now assume it's because they don't find it "dangerous" enough. So all those racist and transphobic blogs calling for race wars and celebrating trans suicides, well I guess Cloudflare just doesn't think they're that bad. And that's why these things always progresses, because turning a blind eye is no longer justifiable position. If you cast judgement on one piece of content, you must do so for everything. Now they've made this move the pressure to remove more content will only intensify. And it will be even harder to say no next time because now they've now lost the ability to say they're neutral.

But whatever. I have no hope of a free internet anymore. At this point I think if the West is ever to truly value free speech again we'll need to learn that lesson the hard way.
I disagree somewhat. rule of law' sounds like such a neat, objective solution to social problems, but in practice it centralizes a vast amount of decision-making in organs of state (courts and to a lesser extent, public prosecutors.

This in turn drastically shapes incentives, because of the cost of litigation and highly variable access to legal infrastructure: as we all know, police have no formal duty to protect despite having vast levels of legal immunity from consequences when they make bad decisions.

Hence the pressure campaign on your firm, because exerting leverage through market forces and PR strategies is simply more effective than begging some state authority to intervene. Of course, it hurts you somewhat insofar as it's harder for you to sell a service to anyone and everyone when people see that you're willing to revoke access in some cases. but then you were willing to do that already, eg to pre-empt perceived legal risks from FOSTA/SESTA.

I think sites like Kiwifarms have a right to exist, but on the other hand they don't have any particular right to DDOS protection. If a site is so chronically unpopular that it's constantly getting kicked out of nice infrastructure perhaps the operators need to reconsider their security stance or reflect on the basis of said unpopularity.

Of course, DDOS attacks can be engineered rather than being an expression of organic network sentiment, but then so can mitigation strategies.
This is exactly the determination. The post being spread around as evidence of harm was by a user with four posts, all within the last week, all on this thread, despite being a member for two years.

If I were trying to get a website deplatformed at least the approach is clear and easy.
Software companies have vastly lower overhead. Their staffing and cost structure is completely different from a manufacturer. SV tech bros getting $200K+RSU starting salaries can't be replicated by other businesses.
kiwifarms is back up at https://kiwifarms.ru/
>can't believe you would use your business email to write this AussieWog93

Why? Schadenfreude is a normal human emotion.
Far left activists are often against police, but it appears that they like the SWAT teams (ironically). MTG herself has had at least 3 SWAT calls on her. Many other public right-wing figures have also had a lot of SWAT calls.
£525 outside IR35, £630 inside.
Anecdotally, I've noticed an uptick in biased Wikipedia editing platforming questionable claims as facts. It's a bit concerning.
Thank you!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Eckersley_(computer_scie...
From what I heard there was a false flag bomb threat
> It seems like a lot of people were fine with posting the addresses of Supreme Court members.

Even if you think that kind of protest is a step too far (I do), you surely agree that there's a fundamental difference between peaceful protest at the home of a public figure (which is quite clearly what happened) and the practice of SWATing, which even in its least dangerous form is a perjurious accusation of a serious crime.
Perhaps the reason that they haven't been taken down by the US legal system is because none of what they do is illegal by US law.
If you are trying to hide from internet stalkers, why would you publicly post a picture of your hotel? As a society, I feel like we have normalized oversharing to the extent that young people don't have regard for their own personal safety.

In any case, I think this young woman should stay strapped if there are people coming to her house.
I cannot think of a valid argument against taking KiwiFarms off of Cloudflare (unless the FBI finds it useful to have them on a domestic service, or something). The only troubling thing about this traces back to a question that sits in the backs of all of our minds: how much do we trust these companies to do good with the ridiculous amount of power they have over society? Even when Big Tech Megacorp™ does something good with that power, it can still be unsettling to see that power being used.
I may not ever use it, but I love that such innovative interfaces exist. Huge congratulations to the team
There is some recent precedent for criminal responsibility for someone else's suicide: the (in)famous case of Conrad Roy and Michelle Carter. She was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter for encouraging him to commit suicide over texts and phone calls.
So what's the difference between Kiwifarms doxxing some poor soul and the New York Times or Washington Post doing the same to some other sucker? Why hasn't the NYT been taken down yet?
Maybe, but not every post has to be the best. Some can also be lighthearted jokes.
Right — I understand why idempotency is a good idea.

What makes this “serverless” rather than just good design, even if your API is on a traditional server?
This is really concerning. I feel like it’s easy to justify now because every major infrastructure provider is on the same side culturally, but what happens when services without competition become ideologically opposed? Imagine an ISP shutting down service to a Visa data centre because they allow cannabis purchases LOL.
Won't this alternative admin account also have access to the entire filesystem during installs?
The subject of both is a business denying service. The difference is the motivation for denying the service. The folks who complain the most about denying services to bigots and trolls who violate terms of service are completely okay about denying service based off of innate characteristics. I'm not suggesting that if you support one you need to support the other, rather that it's very curious which things these people most vocally support and which things are unacceptable to them. Just like you'll literally never find them defending leftists who get kicked off of these services either.

The larger point is that I don't think these folks are being honest in their defense and that they are defending sites like KF specifically because of the type of people who are being "censored" and not because of fundamental principles. Conservatives get banned from Twitter? "THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS AND CENSORSHIP!" Leftists get banned from Twitter? Not a fucking peep.
Canada has started to be competitive, mostly because of US companies coming in and bidding up wages, but when I left (~10 years ago) a top salary for a SWE was about $80k. I'm not sure it's because of some cultural appreciation of software as a value driver versus a cost center. The (self-proclaimed) branding as "Silicon Valley North" seems a bit excessive.
You can get that in some places in North Carolina too, but it costs thousands to get the non sewered line installed, so most homeowners don’t do it
Where can I find these posts?
I seriously hope something happens on this issue. Virtually every young academic I know tells me this is everywhere and the most toxic people are usually who move up the promotion ladder, by stepping on and forcing the decent ones out. Actual talent seems to be secondary to skill at removing rivals and piggybacking on others.
> ...kinda tiring to see crowdpleasing justifications during times of stress

People must be allowed to change their minds without being stigmatized or judged for it.

> ...displacing the thoughts of other potentially less biased folk on the Internet discussing the problem at hand.

Well, why should one look for additional (potentially irrelevant) context [0] when there's debate that could be had on its resolution? I mean, it is a struggle to get everyone to agree even when they are on the same page [1].

[0] https://youtu.be/bjD3PcULhJg?t=369 / https://ghostarchive.org/varchive/bjD3PcULhJg

[1] https://nitter.net/visualizevalue/status/1565797227527868417
> I bet a lot of those people on that site are completely lost when it comes to purpose or their place in life

Which makes them a prime target for extremist thinking/alt-right groups.

The alt-right playbook series goes into this rather well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P55t6eryY3g (video has content warning, ironically).
Revolutionary in the sense that this monetary policy is something completely new and never before tried. It isn't a cultural revolution like what is happening in the USA with the LGBTQxyz crowd forcing their views on the entire society, something that could divide the populace enough and which could actually lead to civil war.
I'll quote myself from this comment where I explain a little more about my social media habits in that space. I think you're right that a ton of them are on Twitter, I'd add Reddit, and also say I've never dared try and dip into the shitstorm of private Discord channels: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32156760

> ...far left filter bubbles--with calls for violence, personal attacks, doxxing, and all the rest of it--absolutely exist on Twitter and Reddit (among other places, I'm sure). In particular, just pop over to subs like /r/GenZedong, /r/COMPLETEANARCHY, /r/Anarchism, /r/AnarchismZ, /r/196, /r/2624, /r/JusticeReturned, or many many others.
Someone who is the target of an organized violence campaign by kiwifarms can't live a free life.
With inflation what it is not growing is a decline. Unfortunately that could still mean affordability is mostly not going to move much
By "this thread", do you mean HN, or Kiwi Farms?
Exactly. People will follow “fairy magic” hook line and sinker and to have a diverse cast of elves (who are still by the way still very pretty except that guy who plays elrond) makes them doubt the quality. I think there's a lot of hidden affront at diversity here. All I care about for this series is 1) is it entertaining, 2) are the actors good? 3) give me more dragons. I think it's off to a mediocre start, but I have hopes it will get better. It's certainly not the steaming pile that Reddit and HN are making it out to be, and it's not Better Call Saul level either.
Both libraries were announced by Brian along with a CMS they’ve built.
Is this referring to the "slate star codex" incident a couple years back?
No that's why this issue should have been dealt with promptly and firmly by a justice system not by a corporate choice.

We can't have a society that requires CEO to decide who is morally acceptable and who is not.

If law's have been broken we need law enforcement.
This is your daily reminder that the last time Cloudfare did this, they left up ISIS murdersites, featuring videos of people being murdered by ISIS (gunshots to the face, decaptitation via detcord, setting people on fire in a cage).

The only conclusion one can come to is that it was a PR move as they caved under pressure.

Now, ask yourself if this is a similar situation.
This is Hacker News. Surely you can figure out a way to get around the paywall?
Rolling... on MDMA?
In the case of the Daily Stormer, it was free speech and you very clearly and directly made the incorrect call.

I'm a big fan of your thoughtful speeches while you grapple with these sticky situations. But why not just invest some pocket change in helping solve TOR's name resolution problem so that removal from the clearnet isn't the death sentence it currently is?

There's a simple and obvious solution to this which doesn't interfere with your principles or your business model: a crypto-driven system for assigning human readable addresses to onion addresses. With that in place and included in the tor browser and in a simple browser plugin for other browsers, you can focus on fighting DDOS attacks on clearnet sites instead of being the reluctant referee of the world's communication.
> Microsoft is in the same boat. Virtually no users of their products are actually their customers.
That's how you get away with producing very crappy software, even if you hire the top talent.

Such a weird logic. You’re saying that Microsoft produces crappy software even though they hire too talent. And they get away with it because the people who buy it don’t use it (i.e. by extension don’t care if they’re spending their money wisely)?
I'm sorry you don't believe in democracy - I will avoid your country
Gasify coal.. gas tanker ships from Australia.. plenty of options to permanently replace Russian gas
The containers are not in a contiguous memory block. To serialize it, you could write out each container as a length prefixed block with the container id, which is the 16-bit MSB of the container. The top level sorted list can be ignored, as it can be reconstructed.

To de-serialize, read each container by reading its prefix length and its container id, and then read the rest of the container by the length. The top level list is sorted by the container id. It can be reconstructed by inserting the container id with the container memory pointer into the sorted list.
Based on how this plays out every time, you can always count on Cloudflare to do the right thing after all their goodwill has been utterly destroyed.
I think what you’re saying is true for water and electricity, but if you were to talk about phone lines I’m not sure that argument holds anymore. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard of phone numbers being disconnected for abusive behaviour.
yeah we renamed because a ton of things are called "Lumen". Arguably "firefly" is more common so you can never win :D
Downs Syndrome is caused by a random mutation. It's not inherited so the long term rate of it occuring would be unaffected. Given the massive amount of inbreeding in Iceland they have bigger concerns.
> What really happens is that the bartender signals the cooler to throw out said patrons to settle it some place where it isn't their liability. It goes to the street, who knows where and what they'll do to each other

This is more accurate, thank you. Either way, not a failure of law enforcement. (It is if the bartender calls the cops, they do nothing, and the victim turns up the next day in a hand basket.)
Anyone willing to stick their neck out with a HN-undeletable prediction of who'll be the target of the next pressure campaign? (which of course wasn't the reason for blocking...)

The rumblings I'm detecting now seem to be related to misinformation.
> In many ways this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. An organization thinks software engineers aren't very important. And it doesn't pay the sort of salaries you need to get the top talent. So it doesn't have any top-tier software engineers, and their software team struggles to deliver valuable projects.

And you can see this in their hiring. All full of interns. I remember when VW was advertising a “software school”. They were bragging about teaching dozens of “software engineers”.

The people who run these businesses think that writing software is like being a mechanic. That there’s some “end state” in software. These companies have no software culture. All that matters to them, and especially in Germany, is phds. They don’t care about software, they care that they employ a high number of phds.

Funny story. I remember attending an event at Telekom some years back. People from Fraunhofer ISST were on the panel discussing how to bring quality to a major European software initiative that is currently often on the news. Another point was to come up with an idea how to run an org that can maintain said sovereign platform in a transparent manner.

I asked them a question: why not to hand it over to the universities? Why not set up a number of working groups and use it as a platform to teach competent people on a real world, high profile system. You know: r&d, devops, monitoring, service, bug fixing, new features. Sounds like a great opportunity to teach future software generations, no?

You know what was the reaction of the ceo of Fraunhofer, the said man who was running that panel? He laughed and replied: “do you know how bad German universities are?” He said that in public in front of dozens of attendees. I was left speechless.

So if add 2 and 2, you understand what is happening. Everybody is happy with the status quo.
> Our decision today was that the risk created by the content could not be dealt with in a timely enough matter by the traditional rule of law systems.

> That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be the ones making that call, and no one else who should was stepping up in spite of being aware of the threat.

This is the logic of vigilantes. I'm not saying what you have done is on the same level as vigilante murder or anything, but don't try to justify it as something high-and-mighty. You've once again terminated a customer on a whim. And that's your right, but stop trying to make this out to be anything more than that.
> We continue to work to overturn or repeal SESTA.

How, exactly?

You have made no public efforts, made no submissions to equally bad laws such as the Online Safety Bill in the UK and achieved nothing.

If you had put anywhere near as much effort in to critiquing SESTA as you have this your statement might be plausible. It is not.
I think this might be a case of language being interpreted in an unintended way.

I’m talking about a subset of all activists, and I didn’t think I necessarily needed to qualify a specific amount or to specify an affiliation in order to declare that such people exist and they follow this kind of behavior. I also specifically wanted to avoid charging a particular organized group of this.

In that sense I don’t feel like I’m making a blanket accusation against defined people, but rather, claiming the behavior is being exhibited by some segment of activists.
> Experimental adult males were maintained in constant darkness (DD) or constant blue light (BL) with a peak emission of 460 nm produced by the MarsAqua Dimmable 165W LED Light with a photon flux density of 20–30 μmol/m2/sec (irradiance of ∼0.4 mW/cm2) measured at the level of horizontally placed narrow vials (Genesee Scientific), each containing 25 flies as previously described (Nash et al., 2019).

0.4 mW/cm^2 is 4 W/m^2.

If I understand the unit correctly, this is equivalent to sitting 50 cm away from a light source emitting ~12 Watt of blue light (50 cm radius results in a sphere of 3.14 square meters, 12 W / 3 m^2 = 4 W/m^2). Assuming a 40% efficiency, that would be a LED lamp rated at 20 W, and emitting only blue light.
Well, the phone company can't legally listen in on your private conversations.

In contrast, nothing prevents Cloudflare from looking at a company's public-facing website (ie as an unprivileged visitor just going to the domain) and deciding whether or not one wants to do business with that company.
That is a great argument as to why law enforcement needs to be empowered and resourced to deal with this stuff. I'll back any effort to do that.
If the NYT ever launched a campaign or started targeting a people in a way that actually was the equivalent to Kiwi Farms, then in that scenario it absolutely should be taken offline.

But the short answer is that the NYT is not a dedicated doxing forum. It's made decisions I disagree with, but no, it's not even close to equivalent to Kiwi Farms.
I'd like to see what some of these awesome deleted reviews talk about. Probably "wokism" which is on weak ground from the start. Probably also just made accounts and not ones with a history of giving quality reviews.
Snap-Firefox is noticeably slower on startup for me as well. After upgrading to the latest Ubuntu where snap-Firefox is default, I completely uninstalled snap and all packages then installed from a PPA.

Everything is better and smoother now.

Ubuntu is great but snap continues to be the worst part about using it.

Edit: Instructions for removing snap completely and switching to non-snap Firefox as well (not my site):

https://haydenjames.io/remove-snap-ubuntu-22-04-lts/
What problem(s) do you understand well and live daily?

That's the best way to find something to work on. Focus on the problem first, then try to find the product or solution that fills part of the gap.
I second DosBox. Always fun playing Oregon Trail (on Win 3.1 no less!) on my Android phone
Californians are just the scapegoat for their poor policies. (Not saying that California does not have poor housing policies)
Private firefighters still exist, and they do let houses burn down.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130435...
Evidently in the ridiculous world we’re currently inhabiting.

That being the case, we should probably do a better job of educating people on just how much signal there is in even innocuous seeming information.
100% - you also have the other group ( at least in my company ) that basically does not care about the user. That is a real problem, but hopefully, they see the light someday.
KF can (and does) say whatever they want. That does not give its users the right to doxx an individual or threaten them or otherwise illegally harass them via extra-judicial measures. It’s that simple.

It’s also in Cloudflare’s very own terms of service that KF agreed to when they signed up
I was taught that if I didn't know a word, to look it up in the glossary, which all elementary readers had, or if none, in a dictionary. Neither word "glossary" nor "dictionary" appear in this article.

Seemed to work well -- I'm told I had taught myself to read, bootstrapped you might say, by the age of two or three.
Septimius Severus was not black. He may had darker skin, but was not sub Saharan black.
How do you do NLU? I.e. how do you understand what the customer said and what to do next.