skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
I went to high school with Peter - he was a warm, bright, inspiring friend. Although we lost contact in the early uni years, I credit the interest we shared in programming and problem solving with my career in computer science and have followed him and his considerable achievements from afar.

My thoughts go out to his family too, who I found to be as warm, welcoming and as intellectually curious as Pete.

Vale Peter.
Well it seems to me like the kiwifarm posts demeaning information about this person who is co-ordinating the DDoS, like that they were a pornstar or something. So this campaign seems like a tactic to shut down the discussion of facts that are inconvenient for their reputation, like a SLAPP suit.
Let me see if I get this right, they were not hosting KF, they are blocking them via other services like DNS etc?
actually it hasn't been implicated in any suicides and I implore you to stop saying shit that you've heard from some random bloke
>TERF

Is this a new buzzword to blanket a group and opinions? Something like "I dont think transgenders should compete in elite sports" would now label me a TERF. All these defenitions are made up on one side and can change on a whim.
The site and the person who host it (there is no legal entity involved here - just a person) have not done anything other than facilitating speech, which is heavily legally protected. The users of the site have done a lot, though.

The proper action would be to go after the users who do bad things, and bury the site operator in subpoenas to find these bad actors.
In the pragmatic programmer the author talks about unit testing as a great way to learn how to write testable code. They mention the benefits of that sort of code and how they don't always write unit tests as that's not the most important part.
This seems like it's some 'muh free speech' post from this new account in response to Cloudflare removing KF's services...

The major thing to worry about with Cloudflare is what happens if it goes down, when, and how often. It doesn't go down often enough for me to worry about it, but also: 99.9% of people reading this probably use Cloudflare's free tier - as do I! If you want constant uptime, pay for it.

Also, probably best for discussion of CF vs KF to go in that thread.
It's pretty easy to, you know, scroll down.

Companies in this position are damned if they do, damned if they don't. I for one at least appreciate thoughtful, substantive responses from company leadership in company-specific threads, and I'm happy that at least on HN we are more likely to be given a real, substantive response than the corporate drivel that is shoveled to most other media outlets.
Are airlines not a form of infrastructure? Because they make extra-legal decisions on banning customers, usually based on obnoxious behavior.

They’re also private infrastructure unlike water/power, which is the position that cloudflare is in.
"Everything I dont like should be instantly disconnected"
It’s nonsense this has anything to do with the law.

This solely happened because of mainstream media pressure and significant clients moving or threatening to move away from Cloudflare and the board deciding they don’t need the bad press and loss of customers and nothing else.

You provide a service and like every service provider you have a TOS/AUP. The issue is the Acceptable Use Paragraph is clear as long as the content isn’t Copyright or CSE then it’s fine as you will absolve yourself of any responsibility.

No other CDN/WAF tolerates nationalists who threaten people, Cloudflare does.
No other CDN/WAF makes the reporting process essentially doxing yourself to the threatening website. Cloudflare does.
No other CDN/WAF intentionally puts all the most vile sites on dedicated CDN hosts so they get DDoSed while the normal customers don’t.

It’s purely so then when the vile sites get DDoSes then they use those learnings to improve the controls for all customers.

Much like providing security guards for a Proud Boys rally. It’s an intentional business decision to provide those services.
You could chose not to. But you don’t.
https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/2022-alleged-kiwi-...
Thank you for elaborating!

I think that Erlang/Elixir could make amazing TUI apps if they were easier to distribute. The ability to push work to the edges of the system while keeping the UI responsive would be awesome. It sounds like static binaries provided by Firefly would make this a viable option.
I'm not saying they are equivalent. I'm saying that all the people screaming that this is tyranny hold very different views on denying other people services based on a protected class. I'm pointing out how silly it is to be okay with a baker refusing gay customers but thinking this is the end of freedom on the internet.
pedalpete responded about Australia and Canada.

Japan considers programming a blue collar task so pays accordingly (though there are exceptions, like Sony Computer Entertainment). But culturally the companies tend to understand the role of software better and have for a while. Remember how great the Keitei were in the late 90s/early 2000s compared to anywhere else in the world?
I agree that MTG almost certainly wasn’t swatted by KF.

I have, however, spent time reading Kiwifarms well before this controversy. I have zero interest in arguing about the conclusions I reached: I just want to put down a marker and say that you’re wrong. Many people who disagree with you have taken the time to read the site.
I have to disagree with this. These folks are best positioned to give us actual information. 90% of the rest is just opining.
> That is imo a breach of contract

Point me to the breach you believe exists.

> You’re hijacking their website and saying “read our content” instead.

They have their domain pointed to their servers. As soon as HateFarms points their DNS elsewhere people will no longer get that message.
It seems fair if people can reply to those posts, as you have done.
To the best of CF's knowledge, I presume. KYM posted screenshots.
>There are probably cases where law enforcement would demand that they do it anyway

Yes but here Cloudflare claims that law enforcement was "too slow"
An article https://reason.com/2022/09/02/new-loan-program-for-black-lat... in Reason magazine says this program
"will likely be a gentrification accelerating machine".
I dunno, I think with the recent EU legislation they’ll probably stick a USB C on it.
Also annoying if you don't care about blikenlights but do want a large, well made, high airflow case (big fans can spin slowly and be quiet).

They all seem to come with the glass side, PC is on the floor so I mostly live with it but still limits a lot of options.

Same with all the RGB on everything.

Some of us just want a fast computer, we don't really care what it looks like when it's running.
You’re deflecting and at the same time declaring yourself on the side of KiwiFarms. Fair enough, but I don’t think you realise how laws around discrimination work in the USA, you may want to look that up (hint just put “protected class” into Google, that’ll get ya started)
>>There were Roman emperors who were indigenous to (Northern) Africa.

They were decedents of Roman people living there and not sub Saharan Africans.
Yeah this is a big opportunity. Cloudflare’s service could become much more commoditized in the future which would help deal with the threat of them monopolizing a critical access layer of the internet. Of course scale is required for freemium so it’s not smalltime stuff but there seems to be a lack of good alternatives.
Internet Archive has paywall too, do you guys just assume we have paid subscriptions to the top 50 news sites?
This isn't true. 10GB is the limit on docker backed lambda function sizes. Layers are capped to 256MB just like lambda functions.

A couple of weeks ago, I tried to deploy a lambda function that created Azure Subnets in python, and the Azure client was 265GB alone. My layer creation api call failed because of this.
So would you argue then anyone against mass surveillance supports terrorism? That if you don’t support NSA hardware back doors you might as well fly the planes into the towers yourself?
Such groups can splinter endlessly into unidentifiable new subgroups. How do you stop those? What is your imagined end-game here — making freedom of association default-deny?
Forgive my skepticism, but two strongly anti CF posts in 12 hours?

I have witnessed the mass conversion of normal people to extremism in the US in the last 10 years, and this is not it. If it is an attempt, it is too soon.
Apple has decided to forgo the standard charging connector in favor of their own stating "using a standard charging connector will make our cars much thicker severely impacting product esthetics."
>so what exactly happened on Kiwifarms website in response to the deplatforming campaign on Twitter?

We dont know.

Being that Kiwifarms is an open forum, and I assume Cloudflare has computers, they could show us the proof, but it is actually in their best interest not to. Now anyone can make their own fantasy what "dangerous content" is.
> This seems like it's some 'muh free speech' post from this new account in response to Cloudflare removing KF's services...

You read over the publishing date (2020).
Tesla should announce it, make some flashy videos, and start collecting deposits. Actually making and delivering seems almost superfluous at this point.
most recently, they executed a targeted intimidation campaign to the point where somebody felt the need to flee Canada. and then continued it when kiwifarms users discovered that person's new home in ireland.

(edit: corrected US to canada. most of the coverage of this was coming from NBC, assumed that meant the victim was american)
Here in Spain the free healthcare I receive is really great. I have nothing but good words for it no matter what the audience is.

Sure there's some waiting lists but when I have something that may be serious I get seen right away.

In the Netherlands I've also had great care and even subsidized housing when I was making minimum wage.
Run your own DNS servers folks!!! Yes, your app servers won't really have much DDOS mitigation in-place but the chances of that happening to "you" specifically is about the same as your datacenter losing power.
Edit: never mind I totally misread the initial comment and swapped the two subjects. Ignore me

How is that not holding them as equivalent for the purposes of your argument?
I think a lot of people in the comments don't understand what Kiwifarms is.

I say this as someone who occasionally browses there and gets some (admittedly sick) enjoyment from it: the main draw of the website is a place for people to get together and bully mentally ill "weirdos".

It's not just about people posting offensive shit in their own little corner of the internet - what happens there spreads out, by design, into the mainstream web and real life too.

While I'll personally miss watching people do fucked up shit for internet clout, this is a wise and fair decision by Cloudflare, and there's a good chance they may have saved Keffals' life.
> Most oil and gas extraction should have been hard stopped twenty years ago.

This invariably would have meant increased energy prices and more funds for foreign dictatorships, at least until a full transition can be done (ETA: min. 20 years).
I don’t know where posts are coming from when I see them online. We can only guess at the specifics (which will hopefully be released when there’s time for an after-action report) but presumably cloudflare may be able to see ip addresses and have some idea of location. If someone posts “I’m coming to kill you” a dozen times but the ip is in Europe and doesn’t appear to be a VPN then that’s less cause for concern than the same posts made by someone with a residential ISP ip that’s half an hour away from the target.

Of course that may not at all resemble what happened, but you are incorrect to believe the cloudflare doesn’t have a privileged position that allows them more information.
This is a serious suggestion: if you are concerned about blanket accusations, it’s helpful to avoid blanket statements like “Activists hurl around the Nazi label…”

Some people do use that term with insufficient care. Some people use it carefully. Some people use it carefully but disagree with you about who it reasonably applies to.
>It is a very pathetic forum with low value

If they paid the bills to Cloudflare what is the issue?

Should Cloudflare decide what sites have value to stay online?
IMO it's more likely that one member of the anti-KF crew was responsible for the false flag. Most of them are also far to the left, and MTG is a fun target for them.
There are two businesses here, CF and KF. In a dispute, the benefit of the doubt goes to one of them. And it's clear which is more trustworthy.
How many wpm?
As I asked previously, there is any indication of kiwifarms involvement? there's nothing in that link pointing to it, aside from someone calling in to say they are a specific user in the forum, which lets be honest here it's madness to think is relevant.
Ahh god jeeze yeh what even is a “TERF” when ya break it down its like what even is anything? Really makes you think.
By writing witch hunt, I've meant that KF users hunt down certain individuals they may not agree with, for whatever the reason. I definitely didn't mean that KF users are being hunted.
Would you call "get", "set", "del" and "rename" a query language? Because they are commonly used commands for Redis.
Here is how much a Gen Z worker makes in every state
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither and will lose both".

We're letting private corporations act as the judiciary and executive branch of governance.

"What could go wrong?" I wonder.
> we shouldn’t be the ones making that call, and no one else who should was stepping up in spite of being aware of the threat.

By making that call regardless, I don’t think you’ve increased the likelihood of law enforcement (or other appropriate parties) stepping up to deal with such cases in a timely manner in the future. Maybe rather the opposite, which would be unfortunate.
It sucks the legal system can’t move fast enough. We really need a way for the fbi to arrest the site operators more quickly. Of course, This is revolting content of the highest order but that really shouldn’t and doesn’t figure into the calculas.

This move was correct because it protects cloudflare shareholders. Taking the site down has serious downsides. It puts all of society at risk. Law enforcement now loses transparency on what is going on with these forums, whose connecting to it, how users are interacting with it. Driving these sites underground means they are more difficult to interdict and may ultimately increase danger and death.

Seems kiwifarms was prepared for this and already transferred to new infra at another dns I won’t name
A majority of laws were written before the Internet existed. Be careful what you advocate for, because if you want police to be able to take down a domain via the registrar due to a possibly security threat, then that is what you'll get.
At all levels, and Cloudflare isn't exempted from that. Social media platforms already routinely decline to host content via moderation.
There are two sides, the other is:

1. Christchurch terrorist had no known account on the site so there was no information to give.

2. That Oceanic law enforcement were trying to arrest anybody who so clips of the shooting video or materials related to the shooting under the same laws as child porn.
Neither of those incidents took place in the last 48 hours, or have been definitively attributed to Kiwi Farms.
Cloudflare didn't say that they contacted law enforcement in the last 48 hours; they said that they've been in contact with law enforcement for weeks and law enforcement hasn't acted (i.e. to give them a court order to shut the thing down.)
So, can we get any details on what was actually said on the forum rather than just "escalating threats"?
More relevant? In what sense would you call any game show relevant?
That happened before they made the original response, though. It's definitely not that.
I love my quest but it gets hot in summer after an hour and wearing it all day would be slow torture.

In winter it's mostly fine.

Glasses have airflow and better ergonomics if the use case is just a big (virtual) screen.
> and is responsible for multiple suicides.

I've suffered some cases of extreme, acute depression in my life, and I was lucky that I had some support that prevented my depression from killing me.

That said, I'm really uncomfortable with the language that somebody else can be, as you put it, "responsible" for someone's suicide. One of the things that is really driven home in therapy for depression (that is, after you're no longer in a suicidal state) is that you alone are responsible for your actions; you're not merely at the whim of your circumstances.

The harassment from Kiwifarms is/was reprehensible, but harassment alone, at that level, is enough to draw a social and legal response without pretending they are responsible for someone else's suicide.
I remember many years ago with lulzsec, where cloudflare refused to shutdown their services. Whether what they did was moral or not, it was a still a crime and I imagine it was because they agreed with the message.
without a doubt
They're referring to the HN user who posted this as "new," I assume, not the article.
>Our decision today

Your decision today. You took ownership before for the arbitrary decisions to remove DS and 8Chan, take ownership now and do not try to backpedal. You are Cloudflare's leader.

>That’s a failure of the rule of law on two dimensions: we shouldn’t be the ones making that call, and no one else who should was stepping up in spite of being aware of the threat.

You failed to take ownership of this issue either way. Your response suggests you can't understand the responsibility that you continue to have and are trying to shirk it. My suggestion is, find someone who is willing to be compensated to have this responsibility if it burdens you so. That's part of a leader's job.
>and the site has a whole long thread on her

The thread looked to be 90% Twitter screenshots and clips from Keffals stream... All public information. Compiled in a creepy way, sure.
> I suppose it may not run efficiently that way, but it would run. And you don't have the built-in html templating with php, where any html file is also a valid php file.

Indeed.

On an abstract level anything can be done. Efficiency is the question.
You probably are not overestimating the pandemic's impact, and I think the author is slightly overstating WWII's impact.

I say slightly overstating because you can't stop at WWII, you have to also go back to view what lead to WWII, and why was WWII so impactful. Would it have had the same global impact had Japan not bombed Pearl Harbour?

Could the Cold War have occurred without WWII? If the Cold War didn't materialize, would the US have developed the Apollo missions? Without the need for high quality small transistors for Apollo, would the modern computer age have developed as it has?

The gist of what I'm saying is that I don't believe you can take any of these things in isolation. The Butterfly Effect is real.

Having said all of that. I believe this is an excellent article in viewing the impact of events.
I’m starting to think this person we are responding to is either a troll or such a one dimensional thinker that they are, in the literal definition of the word, a bigot.

“A person who is obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a particular religious or other creed, opinion, practice, or ritual; a person who is illiberally attached to any opinion, system of belief, or party organization; an intolerant dogmatist.”

Perhaps they are cut from the same cloth as those who enthusiastically guillotined perceived enemies left and right during The Terror, only to be beheaded themselves months later by other revolutionaries using the same justification and sense of righteous fervor.
It's staggeringly difficult to even just back it up safely if it is in use 24/7. We had some customers that made their FoxPro app "too critical" to the business, which very rapidly becomes an untenable nightmare with no way out.
he means the burner account that submitted this article is doing so to downplay KF's boot from Cloudflare by invoking the sentiments of an old article that really doesn't justify its decision.

phantom_of_cato had all of his replies flagged and removed in today's thread.
Here is an example of a successful CCS project in the most offensive industry (coal).

https://www.saskpower.com/our-power-future/infrastructure-pr...
I knew someone that kiwifarms had a big hand in driving to commit suicide.

I don't want to really get into the details, but we should push places like kiwifarms to the corners of the internet, and then keep pushing.
The people who write articles like this, call it "why people make dumb decisions", and don't appear to understand this is a well understood area.

It's written as though they stumbled across this esoteric idea written by some dude 100 years ago. There is a whole set of papers, Bernoulli is one of the guys who did research on it and there are a bunch more. There is a whole field, the ideas have been pulled together. It's introduced in any half decent microeconomics class.

What's next? An article suggesting maybe we can predict how long it will take an apple to hit the ground? That some guy named Newtown penned a few useful ideas on it back in the day? And pretending "physics" isn't a field?
August 5 was a month ago and the MTG SWATing was obviously an anti-Kiwifarms troll…

> Officials said they received a second call from the suspect, using a computer-generated voice, saying they were upset about Greene’s view on transgender youth rights.

https://myfox8.com/news/crime/what-is-kiwifarms/
The comment is pretty obviously talking about working with them when it comes to vulnerabilities.

How they handle takedowns is important in its own way but completely unrelated.
Calling Kiwifarms a community is pretty rich. SomethingAwful or LF/Postplace is a community. KF is a Potemkin village.
They do, but not the way you think. They partner with CDNs and large service providers to cache content in their datacenters for them, saving on peering/infra cost , enhancing UX and padding their bottom line. Most of the time they even pay for it. They’re also smart enough not to expand in businesses that aren’t their domain of expertise and/or may come with legal hurdles.
I know you are concerned, or at least that you wrote that you were concerned, but given that it is a real concern why do it then, what do you accomplish? whatever threat that was supposedly being organized will still come to fruition, no?
I read the site sometimes, although my argument is that anything against US law is against the site rules and this whole thing is disingenuous. But it's also censorship whether or not you frequent the site.

I get how if you just read about it that KF sounds awful. Not sure how legit any of that is tho. Do the people you suspect of being readers of KF seem like awful degenerates to you?
If you think KF was a literal neonazi site, either you don't know what "literal" means or you have a ridiculously broad definition of "neonazi."

Given the absolute state of modern American politics, I'm afraid it's the latter, but who knows.
I think it just depends on the person. I just LEARNED how to code a year ago, and I’m 46.

I’m looking forward to many years of coding, I find it to be enjoyable and challenging. One big thing though, I only code for fun and only on my own projects. I could see how coding for a big company would not motivate me at this age.
CF provided domain DDOS protection, not serving, for KF.
So content/hosting isn't part of service CF were providing.