skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Cloudflare can do whatever it wants but I wish they were honest about it.

The claim that there has been some “dangerous escalation” in the past 2 weeks is nonsense. If anything the owner has been monitoring the thread more proactively and making sure people follow the law. This is included not allowing the creation of new accounts and reminding everyone that their data will be turned over to the authorities should it be requested.

The only thing that picked up steam in the last two weeks is the campaign to drop Cloudflare and the media attention on the situation. That’s why they caved in. It got big enough to reach Bloomberg/wsj/congress. Just be honest about it.
In this case cloudflare was the ddos protection via reverse proxy. That is different from directly hosting the website. No backend servers in this case were ever hosted on clodflare's network.
Rethink React: Is it still a good library?
This wasn't "larping drama" - KF members went to pretty severe lengths to not just dox people but to show up at their houses and SWAT them etc.
I'm working in this field, and I would love to hear how he's generating video from these networks that don't understand what they're making. It can barely draw the same person twice, much less have the camera move through a 3d space.
Seems to me it would be better for Cloudflare to keep serving Kiwifarms, and cooperate with government requests for access logs / etc. Then at least our law enforcement would have data to help with finding threat actors.
Boy, this sure would have been a lot easier if they just dropped Kiwi Farms with little fanfare the instant it was clear they were using CF. I bet they'd have been able to even keep the perception that they're a super neutral platform, too.
I genuinely believe that it's entirely possible to be seen as very neutral and also just ban anyone I disagree with or who even just annoys me.
> also just ban nazi sites, troll farms, etc. because you choose not to do business with them.

This is literally the opposite of neutral.

I don't get this constant need for mental gymnastics. Just say you believe in censorship.
From what I'm aware, two party consent laws usually have exceptions for when a person feels like they are threatened or in danger in some way
The original quote will likely be the more accurate one.
You are still talking about proxies. You misunderstand what Cloudflare was providing, and you are instead talking about "backend servers hosted on clodflare's network" as if that was ever their offer.
I began as a paid programmer in 1982 (wow, just realized that). It's been fun and programming is still one of the most fun things I do.

I think a lot of developers are unhappy because they either chose the career for the money or because most software development today doesn't involve a lot of programming. That is sad.

But there is still a ton which really is simply programming.
Yeah there was no winning move here. The pressure from both sides was too great
>That's why I said vote.

Constitutional amendments are so tricky that I'm not sure if just going out to vote is gonna change anything.

>Also, freedom of speech does not include speech made with thr intent and effect of causing demonstrable harm.

I don't think that is a legal standard for the First Amendment. Advocacy of violence is protected speech under the First Amendment.
> this problem was never going to go away for them if they didn't.

Sure it was. Another week or two and the angry people would have got bored and moved on to some other outrage.

Instead they have been shown that the infrastructure of the internet will bend to their will if they make enough noise.

Good job, CF.
It also speaks to culture.

Decisions individuals make in large organisations are, on average, downstream of institutional culture, so if a large organisation is responsible for a lot of bad decisions then the leaders are responsible for the culture which made those decisions seem reasonable.
> to the extreme extent he mentions

Hey just FYI - Keffals is "she", so "to the extent she mentions".

edit: to downvoters - original comment was referring to Keffals as "he", it was later updated to pretend it was referring to the owner of KiwiFarms.
While I'd be fascinated to hear the answers to all your questions, I would guess maybe 2% of people would even understand them. I wouldn't expect a post like this to get anywhere near that technical.
Didn't downvote but a single company is not going to control this. They will be back with someone else.
Dubious. IBM's marketing wants to convince you it does, but as far as I can work out, the integration of DB2 into the system is nowhere near as deep as the marketing makes it sound.
Y'know, sometimes, when two people or groups are blaming each other for something...

One side is stating the factual truth (it's the other side's responsibility)...

...And the other side is blowing smoke to avoid doing things they don't want to do, for whatever reasons.

In this case, I guarantee you that the reasons the Mississippi state government doesn't want to help include both racism (Jackson is majority black) and political partisanship (as you can see, Jackson votes blue).
> You are not going to like what I’m going to say but I think the reason they rewrote so much of it is simply that the books are not particularly good in the first place. The ideas are very interesting but... The prose and characters are rather poor and the stories mostly serviceable. I do wish there was less violence and more focus on trades and exchanges however. That would have been a better show.

I like this

> The ideas are very interesting but that was mostly kept.

I disagree that the ideas were kept. For example the focus on the cloned emperor is the opposite of the ideas of the book (although Lee Pace was fun to watch)
There's a logical fallacy called the slippery slope. It's not an effective thinking strategy. Cloudflare simply chose not to protect a site full of bullies. As is their right. They hardly silenced anyone.
What is a senior developer anyways? I am a around developer, but even after 20 years I see people around me much better than I am. Still I managed to setup multiple companies quite succesfully. But am I a typical senior developer? No I am not. I am quite mediocre.
Jackson has 150k residents in a state with 3m total residents. It’s also a state that is historically associated with libertarianism. The state is usually not responsible for local municipal infrastructure.

I’ve read various estimates on the cost to “fix” Jackson but these estimates are just to address infrastructure problems right now. It’s probably an order of magnitude more money to reverse the downward spiral and turn Jackson into a growing city.

It’s not as if Mississippi is a thriving state with cash to spare. Take away federal funding and federal welfare and it’s a third world country deep in poverty. The total annual spending by the Mississippi state government is $23 billion.
> I truly hope that those unsatisfied with this outcome (which I suspect will be literally everybody) can take this as an opportunity to go help pressure their respective governments to figure out what the hell should be done, systematically, about hate speech on the internet. It's only 25 years overdue at this point.

This is a very good takeaway, as it is a complex problem. But I think in the interim, it's perfectly fine for private companies with no legal obligation to keep sites like these operating to just choose not to do business with them.
Ask HN: Any good talks on distributed computing?
> But ("FSD" excepted) they spend more of their attention on what really matters: treating their vehicle as a modern electronic device.

Yet even Tesla does a rather bad job at this — they consider it to be a modern electronic device and ignore the wheels. OTA updates regularly change the UI in a way that is difficult and dangerous to learn when the wheels are spinning. Even when familiar with it, the very basics are hidden in menus and cannot be used without looking away from the road for longer than is safe.

Car companies: make your car software simple, reliable, and boring. You may well need to spend serious money doing this, but the goal should not be for it to be fancy or to feel extremely modern.

(With the latest update, turning off the seat heater is buried in a menu. I still haven’t figured out how to efficiently dismiss overlay apps that are covering the map. It used to be fairly obvious.)
Right, the Senate Launch System maximizes transfer of cash from taxpayers to defense contractors.

There is absolutely no need to fly any hardware in the process.
You don't lose OTP, because OTP is a library, written almost entirely in Erlang (not counting the set of NIFs/BIFs which provide intrinsic functionality), which we absolutely aim to compile with Firefly just like any other Erlang (or other BEAM language) sources.

The BEAM also provides a runtime, but that runtime can be implemented using other strategies. It essentially provides a M:N green threading abstraction (processes), with a specific set of semantics around how those communicate (messages) and how failure is handled (links/monitors/etc). Firefly provides a runtime that aims to be equivalent to that of the BEAM from the perspective of the developer, the only difference is in how that is done behind the scenes, what is produced by the compiler, and what restrictions we impose that the BEAM doesn't (namely no hot code loading, at least for the forseeable future).

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Firefly throws away OTP, or tries to implement Erlang with different semantics, because that is explicitly _not_ the goal.
Private companies should not be
the de facto moderators
of free speech

Hate speech and organizing to harass and other IRL hate acts is not ‘free speech’. That was the major point.
I remember reading a story the other year about Iceland having eliminated almost completely Down's Syndrome from their populace by aborting those fetuses which have the syndrome. Much as some parents are happy with their children who do have it, I would not wish anyone in this world to have such a syndrome. Somehow, this attitude seems controversial, and I do not understand it.
A CDN caches (= stores) the bits they provide. In other words, they are hosting contents on others behalf. I can't speak to a legal distinction, but if you torrent child pornography, I'm pretty sure you aren't going far with a claim that you were "just a CDN".
Never heard of kiwifarms before but after having a quick read on it, I don't see any reasons why any provider of any sorts would deal with them. Not sure how screwed up in their heads people need to be to engage in this kind of shit.
"Neutral", maybe, but their stance goes beyond neutral. They clearly position themselves as "infrastructure". HNers should appreciate this more, as it's often a recurring theme here to talk about ISPs as infrastructure.

Infrastructure doesn't privately discriminate, period. Water/Electricity utilities don't cut the supply to rapists and terrorists just because they're rapists and terrorists. They cut it when law enforcement ask them to.

This conflicting discussion is better had on this level: "Should Cloudflare be considered infrastructure, or not?". It's not straightforward.
A senior developer is one who can read, write and TEST their own code in an automatic way.
That's incomplete, though. The business running the computer system would bear all the costs in attempting to target 100% uptime.

Targeting zero payments fraud does mean the business has to bear the costs of the fraud prevention measures, but their customers also have to bear intangible costs, like the annoyance of a detailed, invasive know-your-customer process before being able to buy anything.

But if I'm a user of this computer system that targets 100% uptime, I don't have to see any of the downsides/costs that the business incurs to try to get that uptime. I just see great uptime, and it's all rosy for me.

I think it's important to acknowledge that, in pursuing lower (or zero) fraud, both the business and its customers have to bear costs related to that goal.
But his rant could’ve easily been a pull request in the Brew repo. Would’ve taken just as much (maybe even less) than what he did to come up with his own solution. Let’s say he added a —sandbox option to the home brew install script that did all this automatically. Now it benefits everyone using homebrew.

The whole tone of the article is pretty hostile and childish, which is a toxic attitude in my opinion. Better to be cooperative and help out the community.
It's obviously not the only place they was hosted, or the place they were originally posted (I think the manifesto originated from 4chan and the stream would have been Twitch or YT or some other live-streaming platform - no idea which).
> I really liked the pretty clear and reasoned abuse policy[1]

Except it's neither. The way they try to brand their caching reverse proxy as only a "security service" instead of a "hosting service" is absurd and not based on any well reasoned logic.
Is it censoring free speech when the goal of the speech is to actively harm people? I’m not sure of any nation that has no caveats to their idea of free speech
We'll see if this runs afoul of disparate impact [1], or even the narrower disparate treatment, since it was their declared intention to choose neighborhoods based on race.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact
This makes me think that even though Michael Mann is only 79 years old, he probably has the telomeres of a centenarian.

https://www.euppublishing.com/doi/pdf/10.3366/film.2015.0003
I don’t think it matters if you’re the host (ethically) if you’re responsible for facilitating access.
Piers Morgan: ‘Twitter is for winding people up’
It wasn't idyllic. The Holy Roman Empire suffered millions of civilian deaths during the 30 years war (on the order of a third of its population). It's just the categories people used were things like region or (especially) religion.

Race and racial ideology were developed in Europe, but it was in tandem with the modern era, not before it. Think 17th-19th centuries. It served a concrete purpose: to explain and justify how the leading European nations interacted with their colonial subjects. But there was no reason for race before colonialism, so it never developed because it would have served no purpose then.
According to which laws or court decisions?
Aaaaaand no response from wtetzner

I gotta say getting this much coverage from one individual over my little comment is pretty odd, or is that “quite generous”?
Semicolons, braces, double colons

Using "<" and ">" as both operators and delimiters

Turbofish

Symbols instead of words (ref -> &, and -> &&, not -> !, …)

Inconsistency (Why [i64; 5] and not something like array<i64, 5>?)
I had a Porsche Taycan almost kill me and my entire family due to the absolutely negligent engineering team at porsche. An update was applied which killed the motor due to a stack overflow error — while driving! Porsche set up the error handling to kill the engine immediately with even the slightest error.

I testified along with fellow owners to the NHTSA and got all Taycans recalled. The arrogance and denial that Porsche put owners through was shocking through the process. They displayed a complete lack of understanding of the basics of control systems and software safety.

Needless to say I sold the Taycan and would never buy a VW electric product. I wrote them a letter and spoke to the safety team saying people will die from this sloppiness and lack of professionalism. Someone will pay. Turned out I was right
Of all basic senior skills, unit testing is the first one need to know.
Basically this is what I meant. I'm fine with someone saying "I'm feeling overworked" but I'm not OK with saying "I can't believe Jane had a baby during this important sprint."
So I assume 4Chan will go down to right? Since one of there users actually showed up to Keffals house?

Right, they had IRL stalking deaththreat posted to there site?
KW is not blocked, they are just not hidden behind a CDN anymore.
My wife and I both work from home. I work in a spare room and she works from the living room. Our desks are separated by the spare room wall. For a long time, every time she got up from her chair my monitor would black out for about a second.

I think the issue is that she sits on a blanket, so when she gets up it generates static electricity. Though, she has a similar monitor and I actually have to monitors side by side. I'm not sure why just my monitor was blacking out. It also does that when I turn on a small fan under my monitor.
I think the internet is just irrecoverably broken in a way such that technical problems like DDoS or NN escalate to social problems. We should not even be having these discussions in the first place: It should be infeasible for attackers to conduct DDoS. It should be infeasible for ISPs to surveil their users. The internet as we know it was designed to facilitate communications between non-antagonistic peers, that design is no longer suitable for use by democratic society at large.

https://secushare.org/broken-internet
It takes inputs from sensors and produces output, as well as cogitating on internal states and data. How is that not computation?
> Hate speech and organizing to harass and other IRL gate acts is not free speech

“Free speech” is a philosophy. It makes no sense to describe a particular expression of speech as free or not. Hate speech is speech. Whether one should be free to make it is another question.
> managing blobs on a disk is precisely what filesystems are intended for.

A filesystem is doing much more, e.g. providing naming and management (directories, symlinks, access control, extended attributes, cache management, …) for files for manipulation by humans and applications, whereas RDBMs only need fixed-sized blocks of storage.

Some databases actually support using raw disks without a normal filesystem, which can have advantages by removing the extra layer of abstraction, e.g.:

https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/8.0/en/innodb-system-tables...

https://docs.oracle.com/en/database/oracle/oracle-database/2...

https://www.ibm.com/docs/de/db2/9.7?topic=creation-attaching...
The crash safety of a modern car is just not even in the same world as older cars. That’s why I put up with all the jankiness. You can drive perfectly and still end up in a bad collision that was someone else’s fault.
Lets pretend that private firefighters exists and you had to pay for them to protect your house. It was a thing for most of the world.

It _sounds_ like you are suggesting that private firefighters should let houses burn down if its something disagreeable.

I have that wrong, I'm sure, so feel free to correct me.
There can be limits on speech and free speech. There are many places where we've agreed there should be limits on speech, for instance it's illegal to lie under oath, or to threaten someone with physical harm, or to falsely advertise.

It's not black and white.
Gold standard
KF has a very explicit policy to not interact with subjects of a thread. Discussions about harassing them will get you banned.
> They clearly position themselves as "infrastructure". HNers should appreciate this more, as it's often a recurring theme here to talk about ISPs as infrastructure.

That's trying to have cake and eat it too. I am highly sympathetic to operating like infrastructure, and I would love to see regulatory bodies take this up as an issue to try and figure out. What I am not sympathetic to is having a documented history of not acting like a utility, but then puffing up chests and saying that they are a utility only when it happens to serve them.
Is it censorship? Or freedom of association?
That report mentions nothing about the treatment of Arabs within Israel, where Arabs have equal rights to Jews or any other group. Rather it compare Israel with its neighbour, which everyone in this thread agrees is either a separate territory or a separate country.
It’s a fundamental issue though — there’s no “figuring it out” that a government can do that won’t either censor or facilitate. 25 years has been long enough to find tactical policy changes that make it easier, but there aren’t any, which is why nothing has happened. The choice we have to make is either de-shrine free speech above all else or entrench hatred, and it’s bogus that we haven’t picked the thing that doesn’t kill people yet.
The "site is down" pages were hosted by a Ukrainian company, not CloudFlare.
Being neutral with Nazis is supporting them, period. We've seen in 1933-45 where staying neutral or appeasing them leads to.

Nazis need to be fought everywhere, otherwise their cancerous ideology just grows.
Alaskan Sawmill
I do think, if there was competent legal governance in this space, that's the conclusion they would have reached. I think you understand my larger point, regardless.
>Hate speech in the United States cannot be directly regulated by the government due to the fundamental right to freedom of speech protected by the Constitution. While "hate speech" is not a legal term in the United States, the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that most of what would qualify as hate speech in other western countries is legally protected free speech under the First Amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_in_the_United_Stat...
For a fast, lightweight, Java-based front-end, try TeaVM and its Flavour toolkit:

https://teavm.org/

It is easy to get started by using the maven archtetype, there's an tutorial in Java Magazine here:

https://blogs.oracle.com/javamagazine/post/java-in-the-brows...

With TeamVM and Flavour you get a full front-end SPA framework that lets you code business logic in Java, and pair that with HTML and CSS to make components.

To see what it can do, check out Wordii, a fast-paced 5-letter word game:
* Wordii: https://frequal.com/wordii
* Making Wordii using TeaVM and Flavour: https://frequal.com/java/MakingWordiiAPureJavaSpa.html
It's pretty easy to get a job as a software engineer in SF. If you're above median you can easily get 5 offers in a few weeks.

The costs are irrelevant, you can move anywhere for those three years.
Correct, the BEAM is just one implementation of the runtime, there can (and have) been others. Firefly aims to be as close to the BEAM semantics as possible, but there will naturally be some differences as we're taking a different approach with compilation, with some benefits as a result, but naturally there are also tradeoffs.
Shipping food from where water is to where it isn't is fine.

Dunno why farmers here sell undried, oh sorry, "fresh" corn for a premium when it saves them drying + storage costs.
Are they taking KF money? CF DDoS protection is free.
Making 2D Doom monsters 3D with Voxel Doom
As I remember the policy they posted had exceptions for sites that were dangerous/etc. I think what they did today is completely consistent.

What I DON’T get is why they didn’t think the site was dangerous last week. When I read their policy it seems to clearly state they wouldn’t work with a group like kiwifarms, and yet they posted a whole post explaining why they were.

I agree it’s a flip-flop, I guess I see it from the other side.
Can't you easily forge that?
Anti-tank mines aren't a concern for people though, unless you happen to be in/around a tank.
That is probably why, yes! I was put under.

I'm glad that your child was okay.
the actual deaths in this post have nothing to do with kiwifarms and the one that did (Near) was disproven to have even happened in the firstp lace