skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Cloudflare would do better to simply stop making posts every time they do something. Every other company bans users every day and have learned to stop talking about it. Or the inverse. Regardless of what cloudflare does, right or wrong, there will be mobs of people responding negatively and positively to it. People love drama.

If their policy was "we'll ban anyone we want for whatever reason." I'd respect that more because that's the truth.

Further troubling is how this is over what they believe to be illigal conduct. It may very well be, but now they're creating a precedent that they are capable of detecting and stopping it themselves outside the justice system.

This also doesn't stop kiwifarms or it's organizers. If there's illigal conduct, or even civil discovery, CF has to give up those details. All stopping Ddos support does is allows kiwifarms to receive Ddos.

No doubt they'll eventually take to tor and that doesn't have a good physical address to serve warrants to.
I described the origin of the current situation. Considering you are not a consumer of MacPorts there is no point of reference for you, so you would not know how the current inadequacies came to be.

Trying to judge the fairness of a technical aspect of a piece of software as a non-user seems rather pointless, don't you agree?
We tolerate it legally, but a majority of society certainly does not tolerate it morally nor agree with the content.
The simultaneous trends of bigger SUV/trucks with higher hoods and poorly designed "infotainment" systems is terrifying, especially for pedestrians and cyclists.
> We are also not taking this action directly because of the pressure campaign.

Given their principled stand just two days ago, this sounds like a pretty weak "haha we totally don't cave to pressure, it's just coincidence, so don't think pressure campaigns work on us!"

Has Cloudflare proactively blocked any websites without a pressure campaign?
Surprised at the number of people on here arguing against this because of 'censorship' who by their own words pretty clearly frequent the site...
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/373

Not entirely sure you’re correct on this one?
They could, but a lot of folks (anecdotally) do want their computer to wake on mouse movement. Maybe it could be tied to power management mode as a compromise.
I'm honestly curious, because my reading of US v Auernheimer was that the majority of the penalties were linked with sharing the records obtained.

Which stands to reason and is in line with my understanding of the CFAA: that circumventing and breaching security is a crime, but the severe penalties kick in when one shares the results of those actions.
Why doxx someone unless you are implying a threat of harassment against them?
But it should do something about how 2-3 giant corporations have become effective arbiters of online speech.
>Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current landscape.

When you have an algorithm that suggests things to people, you are a de facto publisher and whatever you do, you're choosing what to promote. In that case you have a responsibility to choose wisely, though it is a hard problem. Hard enough that in many cases algorithmic suggestions need to be avoided.

When you are a specialist with few customers there's no problem with picking who you work with.

When you provide infrastructure for large numbers of organizations though, you must be very hesitant to moderate who you serve, for many reasons. For the most part, if what you're serving doesn't break laws in jurisdictions you respect, they should be left to operate as they will. There is a narrow band around that of "maybe you should, maybe you shouldn't". There are real problems with expanding this to moderate the topic of shouting for the day.
> The claim that there has been some “dangerous escalation” in the past 2 weeks is nonsense.

I don’t believe you have the same information as cloudflare and assuming good faith I believe them when they say there are legitimate threats to body and person.

They have a responsibility to their investors to insure that their brand isn’t used to coordinate violence.

Dont just shrug your shoulders while a small group invites violence because “that’s just too bad” We all have a responsibility to discern what is valuable speech and what is corrosive. Mentally ill people exist, and they are more than happy to use these forums, and they are often used in these forums as tools.
Growing avocados where your lawn used to be would be a good change. At least you can eat those, it isn't just a decoration
would you force level 4 applications to only access level 3 services and model everything that OS does (device management, process management, memory management etc) as a layer on top of it? So essentially all devices are a table? I think just modeling memory access as a table would be a big win. Not sure how atomicity and consistency would help applications exactly though with every memory access. Would love to know.
> Kiwifarms backend server isn't on cloudflare's network

What does that even mean in practice? If you only host the php forum frontend but mysql runs at another DC then you’re also not hosting the backend, right?

Cloudflare was hosting Kiwifarms even if they weren’t hosting the backend.

> Look up safe harbor laws in relation to ISPs. They have very broad legal protection when it comes to situations like this.

And those same laws don’t apply to someone just renting out dedicated servers?

If you know more than me, perhaps you can explain to me how e.g. US law differentiates between a DC renting out dedicated servers and Cloudflare?
Sure, California.

https://www.statista.com/chart/9358/us-gdp-by-state-and-regi...

https://www.jta.org/2022/06/02/united-states/a-california-ha...
That wasn't at all my experience when I was doing contract work at higher rates. The more I made the better I got treated and the more forgiving things were. The worst contracts were with penny pinchers. As soon as something cost $500 more they were gone.
Richat Structure

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richat_Structure
I would be interested in programming languages that exhibited abstractions or metaphors that reflected the human language they were written in (or at least its culture).

The Western musical model (well tempered scale, etc) is prevalent worldwide but other musical approaches are still quite strong and doing well.

But I don't see that in this wikipedia entry. Could programming be so mathematical that all languages use the same metaphors, rather than ones somehow specifically entangled with English? I only speak indo-european languages so I have a hard time imagining truly "foreign" programming approaches.
I see that policy works extremely well in cases like <https://twitter.com/keffals/status/1566153033586810885>. As long as you give all the information necessary for someone interested to interact in a harmful way, it's fine, but you have to frame it in a way that doesn't suggest harassment. Just speculate about all the locations they could possibly be having lunch, and trust that nobody will harass them.
>It looks like it's time for a government to step in with over-sight

Which government on Earth is going to enforce a principle of neutrality instead of its own particular censorship agenda?
I've heard people claim this, but I've never seen any evidence which supports it. I've read threads on the forums there, and have never seen anyone trying to get anyone else to commit suicide. In fact, interacting or even promoting interacting with people whose actions are catalogued and talked about on the site, is heavily dissuaded.

Do you actually have any evidence to the contrary?
The problem isn't that nobody understands that free speech is not limitless, the problem is that literally nobody wants to be in the business of defining the exact boundaries of allowed speech and how to enforce it; there is no perfect answer. Cloudflare was taking the position that it's not their job, and they're not alone as far as internet services go. There are, in fact, other hosts that do basically the same thing, see Nearlyfreespeech for example.

My point isn't to weigh in on this specific decision, but I want the rhetoric around this stuff to evolve away from pretending that defining the boundaries of what speech should be protected is super easy and objective. It's really not, and it never will be.
Regardless of the behavior of the people at kiwifarms, I still find it odd that we have protected classes of people that are more equal than others. Everyone should receive the same rights.
Practical dichotomy — that’s why this thread exists. You either platform it or you don’t, and you’re either legislated to do so or not. What middle ground do you see that allows this degree of free speech without platforming hate?
The most important part about white flight is that each of these suburbs went to create even less sustainable infrastructure (via increased points of service and decreased population that is the single family home).
Probably shortens the path between the applications (built on their distributed database manager) and the hardware/network compared to running applications on top of Postgres or other DBs today (which still end up calling out to the kernel and other subsystems). If all your applications (as seems to be their intent) don't need the Linux kernel, but only the DB, then push the DB service into the operating system.

Building on top of too many layers increases the overall complexity and reduces overall performance. Periodically chopping out part of the system and creating what you actually need, fresh, is sometimes necessary. Even if it doesn't produce a new product or final system on its own, gives you a direction for moving other systems if the theory pans out in practice.
I would suggest that you take that question up with Cloudflare, as they just disabled DDOS protection for KF.
There are some apps that offer synced watching with friends in the Quest, they've been working just fine. Having the ability to share a virtual screen in the same physical location would be a game-changer though. That could be a killer feature.
>However, the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life unlike we have previously seen from Kiwifarms or any other customer before.

If this is true, couldn't they be a little more descriptive? What happened in the last 48 hours that hasn't been happening for the last eight years?
Not just immoral and reprehensible, the campaigns of targeted harassment they undertake limit the victims' speech. If you care about people being able to freely express themselves, today is a good day. I don't know why the free speech defenders miss this (I do know).
I adore Cloudflare for making this post. It shows they have a true commitment to taking freedom of expression about as far as they can.
That is right in line with the experience of a good friend of mine.

He went on a Google interview, and they said he could solve a problem in the language of his choice. They gave him the assignment and left the room. Since we were at Apple at the time, he was coding daily in Objective-C. So he solved the problem in that.

Despite having said "use any language," the guy came back and said, "Oh, not THAT one."

And that's not even covering the douchebaggery that reportedly occurs once you work there. Another trusted friend, who worked there for years, reported being forced to rank coworkers with a graphical tool that shows pictures of them... and requires you to move them up or down on the screen to put some above others. It makes it impossible for you to put people on an equal level.

This is not from someone who makes stuff up, not to mention that this would be an oddly detailed thing to make up.
For example:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/cloudflare-kiwi-farms-...

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/15657972205318144...
> The choice we have to make is either de-shrine free speech above all else or entrench hatred, and it’s bogus that we haven’t picked the thing that doesn’t kill people yet.

Most of us never enshrined free speech above all else. It was never controversial that free speech had limits, that sites had the right to moderate content and ban accounts, or that businesses could refuse service to anyone. Prior to 2016, something like this would not have even been newsworthy.
I think those who are arguing against it either don't know quite how extreme KiwiFarms is, or strongly agree with the hatred, doxing and SWATting of minorities and vulnerable people that their members do.
Almonds too. They are a terrible use of water and can literally kill people.
First rule of Unix security is that no tool should have unnecessary root. Ruby isn’t special in this regard, and Homebrew doesn’t particularly seem to be problematic. I’ve had a lot bigger problems with Python-based tooling, tbh, but I imagine it’s the developers and not the language.
For those not in the know what makes the StormFront situation such a debacle and how is it similar?
I’m referring to TikTok and Netflix etc where you can stream video content on transparent normal everyday glasses as easily as popping in your AirPods for music now, or a virtual shared display in 3D space so you retain 100% of the social sharing factor.
Cloudflare bans websites for unproven claims but is perfectly happy to provide protection for ddos-for-hire websites that so happen to help their bottom line by generating a reason for people to use DDOS protection for which Cloudflare is one of very few options that does not have a fixed limit.

Cloudflare has to be in bed with the US government, otherwise it would have been shutdown for ignoring illegal activity (ddos-for-hire) that's been reported to them (aka ignoring complaints is meant to remove your S.230 protection).
Oops, thanks for pointing that out
Government censorship doesn’t kill people?

Painting this issue as black and white is just wrong. Both sides have immense ramifications for the world. Accountability for censoring bodies and people on these platforms is not easily solved.
> figure out what the hell should be done, systematically, about hate speech on the internet.

I honestly wish there were some organization focused on the causes of hate speech rather than censoring hate speech.

What caused this? Why are Kiwifarm users so hateful? One does not just hate out of the blue, especially not to the degree of the actions they've taken (judging from their Wikipedia article).

Then there's the other end of this: To walk a thorny world, don't pave the world, wear sandals.

How can anyone be harassed online to end their life? Were there not enough settings, blocklists, and such to keep the harassment away? Were they unable to access the services that would have helped them better handle the harassment that did get through?
From the article:

"A year ago the Biden administration announced several recommendations to close the racial homeownership gap. Earlier this year, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which regulates Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, unveiled a sweeping plan to address discrimination in access to homeownership. Among the recommendations were down payment assistance, lower mortgage insurance premiums and a credit reporting system that factors in rent payment history. It also suggested increasing the use of special purpose credit programs, which is what the Bank of America loan is.

"These credit programs enable lenders to offer loans with favorable terms to borrowers who have suffered economic damages or who share common characteristics like low income, race or location. Though the Equal Credit Opportunity Act prohibits discrimination in lending based on race, sex, age or other traits, it does allow for these credit programs."
Prove your accusation, please. That the person that made that call not only said they were KF, but a certain user from KF and gave their account name, should be evidence to anyone who thinks about it for two seconds that that was almost certainly a false flag.
This was my first thought, and probably should be the first pass IMO. If they have to implement an entire novel OS to support this it will never be anything beyond a lab experiment.
Perhaps if the infrastructure were better in some areas, there would be more businesses and people living there
LeDeR tells us that premature death is overwhelmingly from poor access to healthcare and substandard healthcare when it is accessed, and it not an intrinsic feature of Down's.
Also agreed, but I think in some ways there are a few companies that have too much control or influence over the internet as a whole.
Got it - but I'm asking you.

It appears you were hoping that they would remove it. What possible reason did you have to hope that a site took away their ddos protection?

Its weird right?
I'd like to know this as well. I think this is one of the biggest hurdles to a first time user: If you're anxious or depressed, you're by definition not in a good "set". And with psychedelic therapists being rare as unicorns where to find that trip-sitter who isn't just a "That's groovy, man" weirdo that will shape your trip (and your malleable brain) into the bog-standard one with everything experience.
> And non-FAANG type IT worker are also paid relatively high at the cost of other workers living perilous lives.

Those workers live perilous lives because cities refuse to build enough housing, not because a few workers have it good.

> those outrageously high FAANG salaries occurs because of

4) Much more generous VC funding leading to more competition between firms for SWEs, as a result of a more risk seeking / risk tolerant culture with stronger work ethic

Also you're ignoring that even SWEs at companies like Walmart Labs make much more than SWEs in Europe.
Hubris the size and shape of someone named Jackson? The BBC for making an animated Hobbit? No written tome is ever going to come out unscathed in a TV/film adaptation. Have you seen the Amazon Jack Ryan series, the Without Remorse movie?

Hubris, arragance, etc. You're coming back to words that mean the same thing. Just because it's a work you personally are not familiar does not make it more/less egregious that someone has taken the material in their own direction from the original. It's just that you have a personal connection to the orginal and may or may not like the reworked version.
Then speak for yourself and don't equate your disinterest to any moral standard.
Pretty interesting stories in that thread like the magnetic bracelet stuff.

This is a tangent and I’m sure others will see me as being oversensitive but I’ve always found it distasteful that the subreddit has master race in its name. I mean there are real people who have suffered serious consequence because of racism. Just my thoughts.
London Ontario police department said that Keffals was the target of swatting. Keffals was doxxed by KF, and the site has a whole long thread on her. I doubt anyone was stupid enough to type out, "let's harass her!" But if you can't connect the dots here you've got your head in the sand.
Ah, yes. When the caller helpfully told the police he was a kiwifarms user. Because that's what swatters usually do...
> How can anyone be harassed online to the degree that there were not enough settings

They were showing up at peoples’ houses and SWATting them. This isn’t a problem technology can solve.
Fair enough. I agree.
Pipebird handles all of the actual plumbing (extraction, transfer scheduling, retries, setting up data sharing, etc).

The only thing HubSpot would have to do is set up their source and add a destination through our API.
>> If you made him Dutch and portrayed by Chris Hemsworth you'd have to include in your movie all kinds of extra exposition and world building to set the background for the story.

> That's exactly my point.

> A black fairy is not an issue because she is black, but because it's a plot hole that the original story don't have.

I just watched a couple trailers for the new Pinocchio movie and they included a scene with the fairy.

She's dressed in glowing white sparkly clothes, has translucent sparkly wings, a wand with a star on the end that is clearly a magic wand, is surrounded by sparkles, transfigured Pinocchio, and it looks like she travels in some sort of amorphous flowing light blob.

The amount of extra exposition and world building needed to let the audience know that the character is a fairy is zero.

Here's a photo [1].

[1] https://www.instyle.com/news/cynthia-erivo-blue-fairy-live-a...
Well, reviewers busy fiddling with ten thousand settings in 14 INCH TOUCHSCREEN. While 2021 model has only 12.4 inch screen. So new one is best thing that happened.
Los Angeles has the Vintage Synth Museum in Highland Park. They’ll even let you play with them, by appointment.

https://vintagesynthesizermuseum.com/
Serious question: Why do Hacker News commenters constantly "tone police" articles that are not written for Hacker News?

I don't know what criticisms of an article's tone contribute to the collective knowledge base.

If an article author did not show the respect toward something that you think something deserves, you're entitled to your personal feelings, but are we here just to say "I like this" or "I don't like that"? It always seems like HN revels in diversions, irrelevancies, and nitpicking, which typically distracts from the main points of an article. As proof of this, the OP is currently the top voted comment for the article, and a similar comment is the 2nd most upvoted.
Communists are no longer a threat anywhere outside the PRC and North Korea.
> Feeling attacked, users of the site became even more aggressive. Over the last two weeks, we have proactively reached out to law enforcement in multiple jurisdictions highlighting what we believe are potential criminal acts and imminent threats to human life

What are they talking about? From what I've seen, this is somewhere between grossly exaggerated and completely fictional. Did they see someone post the "300 confirmed kills" copypasta and think it was serious?
For those unfamiliar with the reference:

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/magic-story.html
They didn't say that there was "dangerous escalation" in the past two weeks. They said that there was a pressure campaign over the last two weeks, and they also said that they didn't want to comply with this campaign.

They, crucially, said that there was dangerous escalation over the past 48 hours, i.e., since Thursday. Given that most of us have jobs, we might not have noticed. But what changed in 48 hours that led Cloudflare to contact law enforcement?
Another bigot. So hard to please everyone.
> unless that call for violence is intended to produce an imminent lawless action

So it’s fine to call for violence, as long as the violence in question would be legal if it were acted upon?

That makes so much sense, it seems like it would go without saying. If the violent act itself was legal (like a war, or an organized boxing match), why wouldn’t it be legal to solicit or petition for it?
That is a very easy case to make in the US. ISPs have incredibility broad safe harbor laws (even more so when just providing transit instead of actually hosting like this case). They have very broad protection from the consequences of their users' actions.
I think Cloudlfare’s choice to block them is fine and CF was probably fine allowing their use of the service before, given the damage to their reputation they apparently considered acceptable.

Historically, you needed money or influence or both to make a “bad” (or in this case, actually bad) message widely available. What we’re seeing with Cloudflare and other companies choosing not to do business with some people is like a correction a bit back toward the past, after an hard swing toward unchecked, potentially widespread reach of speakers who wouldn’t have been heard much before.