I concede the argument about them wanting to build their own bomb, you changed my mind a bit.

As for the rest, I never said the US had humanitarian intent. But the fact is millions more would have died by firebombing just not instantly like with a nuke.

Yes, of course it was a show of strength but also to prevent more US casualties. It just so happened the result of nuking would also mean less japanese casualties as a coincidence. A long protracted campaign would have definetly lead to more casualties. Japan would have never surrendered and allowed an invasion of their land without basically every military aged male fighting to their death.

It is not propaganda at all, nukes save lives in some situations but not in most. There is no morality in war, the moment a decision is made that allows for civilian collateral damage it becomes a immoral but the question is what is the alternative and are you the aggressor. Japan was the aggressor and their people would have fought for and willingly supported their emporer whom they consider their god. Ultimately, whatever the casualty on both sides it is the agressor who is responsible. The decision that led to the nuking of hiroshima and nagasaki was made by japanese military leadership and emperor.

The argument against wmds you and many make naively is that regular people should not be targeted enmasse only as collateral damage. But in war, regardless of the type of government regular people have the responsibility to resist their government that is agressing against a foreign nation. They did not resist the emperor in japan, quite the opposite. As for children it was their parents that made decisinons or indecisions that endangered them. Yes, military targets should be the only targets but the exception is when that means killing a massive portion of your own military who are defending against an agressor. The US government had the responsibility to prioritize US military and civilian lives over any japanese lives because of both countries are sovreign and each is responsible for the safety and security of their people not people of other nations. This works both ways, when you support the US bombing syria or tolerated iraq invasion the US was the agressor and should their people become powerful enough to attack US civilians they are fully justified because it was civiliand that supported the killing of their civilians.

You do not get to expect for your own children to go off and die in a war to avoid civilian casualties of a foreign sovreign state that is the agressor in a war and targeted your civilians to begin with. There is no question that had the Japanese or German obtained a nuke they would not hesitate before using it on america cities. It was a means to an end, it is not justifiable nor does it need to be in a war.

Killing civilians as an act of agression or genocide is intolerable of course. But avoiding an enemy's civilian casualty is not a priority for a defending military. A large majority of americans thought so after 9/11 and the invasion of afghanistan as well. The Iraq war had popular support as well because americand were afraid they would be targeted by wmds.

Here is an analogy that might help reason: If you get in a fight and in defending yourself you kill the other person. The only question is if you had any choice but to fight to defend your life and well being such as running away. If the other person dies you are not a murderer,they killed themselves by acting in agression even though your hand was the cause of death. You have no responsibility to limit your force because your own life is at risk. You don't have to consider what wi happen to that persons family as a result as well (although the law might wrongly sometimes).

Nukes aren't special, firebombing and cluster bombs targeted civilians without discriminating. Both sides of WW2 used indiscriminant attacks like that. Nukes just happen to have an immediate and larger scale. It is not mote wrong to kill millions as opposed to hundreds of civilians to acheive a military goal. They are both just as wrong. My argument is, it is a correct decision to prioritize american military and civilian lives because each sovreign state is responsible only for their own people.

So if it came down to a war with China for example, using nukes is justified if it means avoiding millions of dead americans, although the US is not a first use nation but i believe China is (could be wrong on this).