I'm glad to hear that you were willing to question a lot of the things that were happening, especially in an environment where it was very difficult to do so. That, coupled with the fact that you're even having this conversation with me shows a far more open mind and willingness to see things from another perspective than I am used to encountering when this topic comes up.

Regarding your two points of contention, I understand where you're coming from.

In order to answer, I'll clarify again that I'm not talking about government policy in this specific thread (although I did feel that it was equally problematic across the board in most countries) but, rather, the behavior of the people. This is my sticking point and the reason that do believe the comparison is apt, even if we didn't escalate (thankfully) in most countries to the point that things did in Germany before and during WWII (thanks, in this case, to the people, enough people on the other side of this to make a difference). It is ultimately the same types of behaviors involved in scapegoating and desensitization to persecution and oppression.

If our pattern-matching for totalitarian behavior is confined to images of psychotic Germans clad in Hugo Boss and runes as they hunt their victims, we're going to miss a whole lot of equally bad behaviors, even if they aren't (yet) as overtly shocking.

The German people themselves didn't just wake up one day and decide to start exterminating minorities, it was a long process of mass propaganda and brainwashing which gradually led to that conclusion. And the people let it happen. It is our duty as human beings, I believe, to identify and block this process as early as possible in every case in order to prevent it from ever happening again.

What specific behaviors am I talking about (during COVID)?

- Snitching / video recording / screaming at / attacking people who didn't "comply" with mandates

- People fantasizing online about murdering people who didn't want the vaccine

- Schoolteachers taping masks to their elementary school students, forcing them to sit outside in the cold, mocking them, and more

- Corporations firing employees who refused the vaccine (and often in very underhanded ways so they didn't have to pay severance)

- And many more that I'm frankly not comfortable with mentioning here

While I'm sure there is a "whataboutist" response to each of the points above, the fact remains that all of the above behavior happened in conjunction with and was generally not condemned by anyone in the establishment (e.g., with real power).

Governments are always going to try to increase their level of control over society but it only works if the people participate. That was just as true during COVID as it was during the Third Reich. While I know that it stings to hear it, I believe it to be the truth, or else I wouldn't say it.

My other objection to your main point (your point that the intentions were good, which is why these actions were acceptable (please let me know if I am mis-characterizing)) is that this rationalization sets a very low bar for both governments and the people to excuse behaviors that should never be present in free societies. You can basically find a way to rationalize anything to the people if this is the standard we set, given enough time and propaganda.

We may or may not disagree on that point but that is where I am coming from. I don't believe, at the end of the day, that the ends justify the means in this situation. There are many other externalities (and, yes, deaths caused by these restrictions and behaviors) that must be taken in to consideration. Not only did I not see anyone aligned with the establishment asking these questions, any attempt to do so from the outside was shut down, censored, gaslit, and more. We probably won't end up agreeing on this but I do appreciate your thoughts and thoughtfulness in talking about it. Sucks that we have to have this conversation in text, which is a poor / cold medium for these types of conversations but it is what it is.

I'll read the papers you sent and definitely agree that there is always a lot of self-reflection and work we all have to do ourselves in order to get out of and stay out of lizard-brain mentalities.