> No, that list is privately maintained and exclusive to the restaurant. It’s used for internal purposes.

Wendy's, McDonald's, and Burger King share their lists, and post them in public.

The lists for all airlines are now being shared by law in the United States. Airlines do not have the privilege of not barring some other airline's violent customer.

This has always been a requirement of participating in American Express.

Credit scores, as were already pointed out to you, are shared between actors and posted in public.

You're being facial recognized at almost every major grocery chain, and the vendor of the cameras is exchanging underlying results. Shoplift a ham at Albertson's in California? You're now banned from Giant Eagle in Pennsylvania, an unrelated company, too.

Drug stores. Fast food. Jiffy lube. Target.

Not even kidding, buddy, just walking down the street gets you put on lists by ATM vendors because they're trying to see if you're casing the joint.

You can't oversee or get yourself removed from any of this. None of it is internal, none of it is privately maintained, and none of it is exclusive.

In the meantime, my list is privately maintained, and you're claiming that's a problem. My list is exclusive, and you're claiming that's a problem.

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> > My own personal judgement.
>
> Sorry, but I don’t know you or trust you. If you want a system people trust

Your trust is not something I seek.

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> The code introduced to the repo linked above creates a pop up if your in a Russian time zone about the war in Ukraine.

Thanks. The answer hasn't changed.

What I had clearly said was "caused harm." This does not "cause harm." To me, this seems like a simple concept.

I do not care if you disagree. If you do, make your own list. Or don't.

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> Can you link to some?

Can? Yes.

Will? No, use Google. You're annoying and I don't care if you believe me.

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> I have much less faith in people in positions of power

Your faith is not a goal for me.

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> How could someone like me verify this claim?

Find a mistake and tell me about it, and I'll fix it.

Or, y'know, accept that you generally don't get to verify these lists. You don't have that level of authority.

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> You don’t think ending up on a developer blacklist (forever!) would end a career or get them excluded from participating in other developer groups or uninvited from speaking at conferences?

That's just not how I would evaluate the situation.

If someone turned up on a blacklist during an interview, and that blacklist gave factual, researchable information about what that person had done, and the person lost that job offer as a result, I would think their actions, not the list, resulted in the lost offer.

You know, like when they call the FBI and ask "is this person on the predator list" before hiring you. If the FBI says "yes," they're not costing you the job, your history as a predator is.

It's kind of wild to me that you seem to be suggesting that I am failing in my responsibility to the bad actor somehow, by permitting the facts of their past to come to light.

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> I’m not saying your list will 100% lead to evil

Cool story.

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> I’ve been coding since ‘97

Cool story.

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> I have never heard of such lists until this thread.

You can get to one of them from the alarm bell on your github account, if you've released any open source.

Your unawareness of social standards in software is genuinely not relevant to me. You can just look these things up, instead of telling me over and over that you don't know about them.

I mean, there's a plant that recycles plastic bottles somewhere in your city, but I bet you have no idea where it is. I don't know where mine is. Does that mean there isn't one? No, that just means you don't know it.

Honestly, assuming you're a regular person in the United States, you actually have heard of a whole lot of these; you just aren't trying very hard to think of them.

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> This feels very reactionary

Your feelings are not relevant to me, especially with your habit of accusing me of being similar to Joseph McCarthy.

Also, it seems like you're saying "writing down what people did is reactionary." Reactionary has two meanings: 1) to react to something, or 2) to resist sociopolitical change.

There's nothing wrong with reacting to things, and I'm not resisting sociopolitical change, so I guess I'm not entirely certain what point you're trying to make with this heavily loaded word.

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> I’m perhaps reacting strongly because

The reason is not relevant to me.

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> It’s a text file that’s used to take some action though

No, it's not.

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> I’m sure you have good intentions.

Your certainty is not important to me.

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> I just don’t like the “forever” stick approach

Cool story.

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Call your bank and ask what a "credit score" is. Those lists are shared too.

Anyone with even a trivial understanding of the world knows that they are absolutely surrounded by this stuff.

What do you think your Uber rating is? Did nobody tell you that the highschool permanent record they talk about is actually real? Did you know your doctor has your charts from your previous doctors, including all their criticisms? Did you know that if you bounce three checks at Walmart, you can't go to Jiffy Lube anymore?

Did you know nine US states have public lists of check fraud people, farmed from any company in the state which wants to participate? Did you know the US Post Office publicly has this nationwide?

They don't have to be formal, either. One thing I really enjoy is telling people they should look themselves up on NextDoor. You're going to be horrified how many lies the Karens who live near you have written about you.

Go tell Amazon how it's Joseph McCarthy and keeping lists of undesirables. Maybe you could hit the big red button and say "holocaust?"

Are you about to tell me how unfair it is that people get cancelled on Twitter, next? Maybe it's not okay that Will Smith doesn't have the right to have the slap forgotten? Maybe it's Joseph McCarthy that The Academy banned him from all Hollywood events for ten years?

Are you aware of the sex offender registry? The arsonist registry? Have you ever heard of the Neighborhood Watch? Does it bother you that the McGruff the Crime Dog kits used to send out lists monthly?

What about Lyft? Are those independent contractors or the company sharing that data around, that when you say racist stuff in the car you can never take a Lyft again?

Do you feel bad for Mel Gibson?

Do you think there's something wrong with Snyk? They have exactly this list, with Marak and so on, on it. They sell this as a service. So does SonarQube.

How do you feel about the Russian oligarchs that the United States has put on a list recently?

Or, on a smaller scale, you can go into any chain hotel - let's just say a Hilton - and take a big fat dump on the ground. Guess what other 35 hotel chains will not rent to you worldwide, afterwards? Are they somehow harming your delicate sensibilities?

What about large franchisees? It's not uncommon for one person to own a bunch of instances of various competing fast food brands in a neighborhood. Where I grew up, at the mall nearest me, the same guy owned a Taco Bell, a Wendy's, and a Subway, all of which are unrelated companies. Do you think he shouldn't pass bad check information between his three stores? If a bad check gets bounced at a Wendy's, and his Subway has a local friend franchise with a different Subway owner across town, is it bad for this Subway owner to tell that Subway owner because the information was originally domiciled in a Wendy's?

Why are you claiming that these systems are ethical when a walled garden exists, but not when it doesn't? How does that actually make sense, without telling me anything about your emotions?

Do you think that if you call them, and say Joseph McCarthy enough times, they'll stop keeping that list, worldwide? Is your monologue that powerful, that it will convince people to change the standard ways of the world?

When you contact Amazon, have you considered asking them how long the notes on your account are? Because if you've ever asked them where your shipment is, they're keeping a list about you too.

I googled the phrase "list of con men," and I got things on CNBC, Wikipedia, Ranker, Money Magazine, a page on Penguin Publishing about a book about this, the BBC, etc. Are all these groups in need of learning rudimentary ethics from you?

What ... what do you think of the news? Is it bad that they tell the rest of the country when a murder happens who did it, or criticize a politician, or whatever? Those are all permanent record. Even the weird public access TV stuff.

When Ashley Judd made a list of rapists in Hollywood, and got the ball rolling on Harvey Weinstein, do you think she was doing a bad thing somehow?

If you want to change this extremely common practice of keeping track of problem people, tell a lawmaker, not me. I don't actually agree with you, that people who harm one another have some weird right to privacy from consequences of their own actions.

For my part, I actually struggle with the US law about hiding this stuff just for minors. I mostly agree with it, but not entirely.

Honestly, sometimes I don't understand why people don't realize that this level of exaggeration makes people less likely, not more likely, to listen.

Please be aware that the second you tell someone they're in any way similar to Joseph McCarthy, your chances of being taken seriously have dropped to epsilon.