I never focused on the social role as causatory[1]. All I wanted was a quick, easily searchable, not-overly technical example of reproductive variation in a population over time. What is known of Calhoun's experiments still satisfy that requirement. I have tried to dispel the social aspect in two posts so far and have completely failed. Obviously, that the connection of such in the broader imagination is to a degree which I underestimated continues to haul in baggage that is sinking my intentions.

Would it have been better to talk about bivalves[2] and baboons[3]?

I would generally prefer bivalves to baboons.

But then I would be accused, again, in trying to illustrate a general phenomena or principle, of drawing a line to some vector of particular conflux between species A and H. sapiens, ala the domain of Jordan Peterson's lobsters.

The problem is, I am afraid, in such discussions as these, my posts will have to account down to the punctuation, lest one correction will need be issued or question be raised, in which case the totality of the thing is blown to the proverbial kingdom come by its (and my) inability to account for the sum totality of a minute portion of the universe. (A trivial failing, I admit, but one I have to own up to.)

Except perfect is never going to be good enough.

It's similar, after a fashion, to having to deal with young earth creationists. Yes, but where is the transitionary fossil between H. habilis and H. erectus? The counter claim will then arise that there are differences in opinion as to whether H. ergaster is a precursor to H. erectus or categorizable in terms of inclusion with H. erectus.

The question is: why do I put in the effort?

Maybe because silence, inaction, is always likely in support of something. Neutrality can likely only exist at minimum if the subject and phenomena are not extant within the same light cone. Practical considerations might allow for a smaller distance, but might as well be thorough.

Ultimately, I have to be fine with misstepping. Failure, after all, in the end, is the only option.

Returning to Calhoun a moment, since I might as well ride the derailment off the cliff (semper desistas semper exieris[4]), the final outcome of Newton's Flaming Laser Sword is that swaths of reality functionally cease to exist. Of course there is epistemic content. That content is not applicable within a scientific framework, that is very true. But something, unless the entirety was fabricated, did happen. Maybe Calhoun purposefully funneled the experiment into his result, The Mad God of Universe 25. Maybe he was the Harry Harlow of rats. But the basics of it are that reproductive rates changed and the population collapsed. Maybe it was from disease. Maybe it was from inbreeding. Maybe it was from the food. Maybe it was from the design of the enclosure. Maybe one day Calhoun decided to climb into the enclosure and stomp them all. Maybe it was all these things together. It's not much. But 'pretty much zero' is not zero.[5] As almost everything I tend to post proves, close enough doesn't cut it.

-------

[1] Yes, I am aware this is not a 'real' word, and I don't care. Another few hundred years and it will be a word. It's been independently derived too many times.

[2] https://jpswad.people.wm.edu/Martins%20et%20al%202018%20-%20...

[3] https://www.princeton.edu/~baboon/publications/2003AJHB.pdf

[4] I won't claim this is grammatically correct. My latin classes were more than two decades ago.

[5] (Bees, interestingly enough, can be taught the concept of zero, which puts them ahead of human toddlers.)