Let's say this too:

We need either:

A floor for labor price

, or

Subsidies (assistance)

, or

We accept that some people are just not going to exist and or show up for work because they are not viable economically.

Which is it?

People laboring and getting enough to exist and show up for work can make skills and other arguments to further improve on their value, sell their labor, whatever.

This is about the nearly half of us who labor and do not receive enough to fund their labor, exist and show up for work basically.

I don't care how we solve this, and proposed one idea where we value things differently, change the basies the economy depends on. We could do that, it may be a great idea, and it would eliminate a big problem with the overly simple supply / demand theory of labor value in play today.

Say we do agree to a subsidy. Great! Then we also need to agree people need that and quit fucking with them about getting it too. No shame, etc... just an ordinary condition where we don't value their labor high enough, yet we need them economically viable, able to exist, show up for work, etc...

Re: Free time

Right now, one third of my life, approximately, coupled with another third for sleep, together provide for "my" remaining third which is the third where I get to do what I want.

I may invest some of that third. Did for many years, which made my labor third a hell of a lot more valuable. Not everyone can do this. We don't even have the jobs available if everyone were to do this!

I may fuck that third right off too. Rest, play, fuck, whatever right? No worries, as adults, it's our third! Yay!

Now, when I must eat into that third to exist and show up for work?

Nope. That's extremely high value time.

Here's one cost, investment. If one's labor does not fund existing and showing up for work, the solution is often more labor, right? Well, now that eats into either sleep, or our personal third of time. Often both.

That costs a person investment time! That investment time is extremely high value time. I would be worth one hell of a lot less had I repeated how I lived my life in the labor markets today. Seriously. Not sure I would make it in the same way. Some of my kids really struggle in ways I did not.

Same root cause: Labor failing to deliver enough income to exist and show up for work.

I tossed some dollar figure out there when I probably should not have. This is another way to get at that value.

And finally, food for thought:

What defines wealth?

The basic definition involves time. Wealthy people can self purpose far more of their time. This speaks right to what I'm getting at, and it's subtle!

A person making a ton of money, yet who is enslaved to it, unable to purpose their time, is as poor as someone laboring a ton, lacking income needed to even purpose their time. Both cannot make use of their time beyond labor, and or sleep.

A trust fund baby, or someone who just sold a company, having fuck you money is quite wealthy in the time sense. So is the person living lean, requiring very little to live and do what they will.

Hope this helps. I'm not going to respond on this further, and thanks to those of you being good discussion partners. I enjoyed this.