skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
I read it as more poking fun at the combination of redundancy in the DOM API combined with redundancy in Javascript.
I don't think they're (if they're, because it looks like a fake) aiming for the data.

If I were them and wanted the data I'd hack a big Facebook application' account and since most of them are very intrusive with their permissions I'd get a lot of data that way.

I bet from the backend it'd be very hard to do it, and the data might be encrypted using a key that only a Facebook user has (the user might have multiple keys and share them with friends... etc etc), anyways, I'm thinking too much about this, it's too late already :).
How long have people been whining that Windows copied the Mac or vice versa? It's not a new thing.

Calling out copying to cut the copier down to size is one thing... it's about giving credit where credit was due. But suing a company into submission is a whole other bag.

I think Apple is being unethical here. They've made great contributions to tech, but we all are standing on the shoulders of not just giants, but millions of tiny innovators who've contributed their work along the way.

I mean... decent chunks of Apple's software are not just inspired, but are literally copied, as in "cp -r konqueror/src/engine webkit/src".
Note that many casual users do not know that shift click to maximize will "properly" maximize many, but not all, OS X apps.
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Disappointed with the misleading title of the post-- "Jonathan's Card revealed as viral marketing campaign".

Browsing the comments, it's clear that a lot of people are jumping to conclusions without reading the full blog post (as is the wont of many on the web), which suggests /some/ link between Starbucks and this campaign-- but is circumstantial at best. It's anything but the smoking gun that the title would have you believe.

What really happened is another story (I'm inclined to "assume good faith" in this instance), but I'm tired of seeing disingenuous titles of articles around the web that are used to blatantly misinform.
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Another con: Unless you want to build three applications, going the JS-only route also means that your site is now only accessible for people with JS enabled.

We've seen how well such sites are received when HN was dominated by blogs ranting about the new Gawker design.

So to fix this, you'd have to do three applications:

1) the API that you use in the JS GUI

2) The JS GUI

3) The dynamically generated HTML for JS-less browsers

Or you change the JS GUI so it requests page fragments and work with history.pushState (PJAX) allowing you to skip the API again, though, of course, then you don't have an API.

I've reasoned about this last april: http://pilif.github.com/2011/04/ajax-architecture-frameworks...
Facebook is a great example of "APIs are important" but the Facebook API for apps is completely different than anything they'd use for their pages. Especially back in the old days, when apps lived in a proxied sandbox and all of the params were passed into them, this code could not have been useful to the regular Facebook-only experience.

So, I don't think Facebook really counts as an example that supports the author's argument.
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Braid is a wonderful game, for anybody who hasn't played it. Probably one of my top 3 favorites of all time. I really enjoyed this talk, the bit about optimizing for years of my life per program implementation (life) was great.
Completely agree. Facebook was already worth $750 million and had millions of users by the time they released their API. However, the API does seem (with 20/20 hindsight) like it was a brilliant move in terms of growth, engagement, and eventually monetization.
Nice post. I'd love to see comments on this.
If you work at Facebook, mind posting your FB profile?
Agreed. However, that fact should give you pause, and if you reject the majority opinion (or merely a plurality, or just widely-held) you should be able to articulate a solid reason as to why it deserves rejection.
Valid point. I should have noted in the article that in our case, we assume our clients to have javascript enabled. As a startup, you have to be willing to let go of some customers to provide a compelling experience to others.
From http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html:

If the original title begins with a number or number + gratuitous adjective, we'd appreciate it if you'd crop it. E.g. translate "10 Ways To Do X" to "How To Do X," and "14 Amazing Ys" to "Ys." Exception: when the number is meaningful, e.g. "The 5 Platonic Solids."
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First the t-shirt says: "hardcore rebels national and free" after washed the original writing disappears. Instead it says: "What your t-shirt can do you can do too."
Images: http://www.businessinsider.com/trojan-t-shirts-neo-nazis-201...
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I wonder how much Zuckerberg's actual, cash-in-bank worth is. Can he, as an individual, sell some portion of his pre-IPO shares for cash?
In the article, it's mentioned that they are building a platform whereby native apps can add collaboration features, and they mention Photoshop as a possibility for that. That would be huge.
Take a look at the URL bar in the first second of the video. Fake.
Wonder why they decided to change the name from "Kindle for Web"?

OP, please fix the spelling in the title. I find it very irritating.
The problems we got with older browser versions(especially IE) is mainly with CSS. Not JS or HTML.
Rendering on the server would have caused the same issues.
As pointed out in the comments of the video the user is loading images off disk. Stop the video at 0:00 to see.
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For those of you that didn't catch it quick enough: file:///users/peter/desktop/ip­honek205/websitek%20pictures/ho­me.html Looked dodgy either way.
I thought Anonymous is an unstructured "organization" and that anybody can do anything under their flag without authorization from a central body. How is it that there is apparently a central Twitter account?
Joel Spolsky - A Unified Theory of Internet Startups
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Well if the professional connection really is just a coincidence, I regret the wording of the title. But do notice I stated as I posted this that I don't think this is wrong on any level really even if it were a manufactured campaign. Again, it's a cool story and very clever either way and I could see Occam's Razor going both ways on this.

pg- Feel free to edit the title if you want.
I just noticed it when the font on the back of the iPhone didn't quite look like Myriad Pro...
Wow, they support Chrome and Safari, but not Firefox. Time to spoof my user agent and see if it really doesn't work or not...

Update: Even user-agent spoofing didn't make a difference with Firefox.
The design is so poor compared to Apple's that you can just tell it's fake...

Apple doesn't:

- Have bad hovers over features

- Gradient their huge marketing fonts that way

- Have so-so pictures of their products

- Have bad redirects when you click on key product links
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Personally I think it depends on the scale. As soon as you have actions that can't easily be implemented in server side code or have a large divergence in possible behaviour for clients, you can say "you need javascript to view this" (pretty much, when it can be called an application).

I find the 'javascript to enhance' guideline helpful to. Then sites are more likely to be functional (but not pretty) in older browsers. A good example is javascript to make menus slide, but which use CSS to make them come up.
The number is meaningful here.
I agree. If a company has posted a job listing, they are expecting me to take time in preparing a relevant and thoughtful application to them (rather than some generic recycled crap that goes to everyone).

In that case please have the decency to reply to my correspondence both on receipt and later with a decision.

Why should I be arsed to waste my precious time preparing my application if the company can't be arsed to write back either way.

Of course for an unsolicited application it's a different matter. It would be unfair to expect them to reply to every application they didn't ask for in the first place.
The innovation in web apps that Apple spurred by their payment restrictions is going to be good for everyone. The Financial Times' excellent iPad app has now been replaced by an equally impressive web app. Amazon's Kindle Cloud Reader is almost as responsive as the native app. I'm almost ready to switch to it. Should be interesting to see how this affects the number of books they sell.
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They're highlighting their new iPad-optimized Kindle Store for Tablets. That is clearly a shot back at Apple for the recent "eBookstore Armageddon". Given how close they were to releasing their web app, I'm a little surprised that they didn't play more hardball with Apple, though.
Maybe it's a bit of a meritocracy? It seems some Twitter accounts are somewhat "official" in the sense that they are followed by most of the people involved in the Anonymous movement.
s/Kindel/Kindle/

It's a pretty grating misspelling. Thank you.
I think in this case the number is meaningful, because the point of the list isn't to show us X amount of ways to actually refresh a page with javascript, but rather to highlight the (slightly humorous) vast number of ways it can be done, due to the ambiguity and redundancy found in Javascript (and in the DOM).

I would have guessed that this number would be high, but definitely not in the 500's.
Someone within the last 24 hours went in and deleted Google cache though..
in recent news the "best restaurant in the world" shut down, having never made a profit!

I think you're seriously mis-representing that story. First of all the restaurant didn't shut down because it wasn't making money, but because Ferran (the head chef/owner) simply wanted to do something else. Secondly Ferran has stated several times that running the restaurant at a loss is a conscious decision. He could easily turn a profit, but that would mean being open all year (the restaurant was only open 6 month of the year), charging higher prices, and compromising on the food, non of which he had any interest in doing. He sees owning the "best restaurant in the world" as a marketing tool, and a place to park his R&D expenditure for his other food ventures, and more than makes up for those losses with his other food businesses.
I don't drink coffee, nevermind go to Starbucks. Can somebody explain whether it's normal for Starbucks to allow people to walk in and make purchases with a scanned copy of a card rather than the physical card?!

This to me is the most surprising and questionable aspect of this campaign being legitimate, but since nobody else is surprised I'm guessing it's normal? It seems like a total violation of the physical security embodied by requiring the purchaser to physically possess the card. Furthermore, depending on the transaction processing model they use, it could subject them to be fraud.
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Yet another demonstration, if you needed it, on why blacklisting user input to avoid code injection is highly unlikely to succeed. There are many ways to skin a cat, and you only need to miss one.

You can also assume that the bad guys start with a list similar to this and tools to semi-randomly perturb their inputs until they find the right combo of hocus-locus to get past your filter and then "neutralized" by your regular expression magic into functioning exploit code.

(n.b. I'm talking about more interesting attacker goals than forcing a reload, obviously.)
There really shouldn't be exceptions regarding respectful behavior and courtesy.
I totally agree with you. Even as a not-so-startup any more (we've been around for 11 years now). It really depends on the type of your customers: If you are selling a specific app to them, you might more easily get away with JS only than if you are producing a page for general consumption.

But, of course, if you go the JS only route (which I have done for my tempalias.com fun project last year), then you also have to keep in mind that you will be duplicating model code and dealing with two separate ORM layers:

One on the server for the API itself and one on the client which gets used by the GUI controllers. Backbone can be of help there, but if you want to, say, do some validation logic already on the client without the roundtrip, then you begin duplicating logic on both server and client.

So how ever you put it, going JS only is probably more work in the end, but it's also less work than going the traditional way and then bolting on a fully-fledged API because the lack of dogfooding it will cause you trouble once you get real users for it.

Overall it's a really difficult decision to make and it's also quite final as changing the direction, again, means a lot of work.
Big thanks to all of the folks who have supported sanity on this thread. My thoughts here:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/jonathans-card/the-real-deal/...

Peace,
j
Easily said, but do you know what 'attack surface' means in infosec?

Facebook's is vast.
I use Flipboard pretty much every day, I can't recommend it enough.
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I'll start it off with what I've gotten so far:
* Boxee
* flipboard
* HBO GO (friend with an account)
* EverNote
* Dropbox
It's a very nice app. Thank you Amazon.

I hope O'Reilly and Safari Books Online take note. I use Safari but its web app to read the books is so slow as to make the whole experience painful and doesn't provide nearly the value it could.

It also seems to be very Microsoft IE optimized and basically lets you read one and only one book at a time, regardless of whether you have a post 2005 tabbed browser or not.
I'm the one working on this right now and this is exactly what I'm doing. However, old document bodies are not the only way to store history. Documents have a revision history, possibly 'stemmed' to a maximum height, which is an array that traces a path from a certain depth back toward the root. All the leafs are conflicts. This is the algorithm davisp is talking about.

While I'm not going to leave the document bodies of superseded revisions accessible (by overwriting them in IndexedDB), I still need to store these history paths so that merging a new revision (either via interactive edit or replication) can properly generate a conflict when applicable.
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Well that is obviously a mockery and a good one at that.

Here is a simpler theory: "Internet startups always do something with the internet." Less funny but more unified(?)
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Carcassonne is game perfectly suited for tablet interaction: http://carcassonneapp.com/
Every day, I have to work with two applications developed this way, with the "Javascript UI" pattern. It's the most frustrating period of my day, bar none.

When you build one of these things, you spend most of your dev time running it locally, and as a result it's snappy. You can do things like loading a blank page for your task list, then flowing in tasks via Ajax and it will render pretty much instantly. It's so fast that you'll even consider loading those tasks one at a time.

For the rest of us, using an application like YouTrack or Flow (getflow.com) is sheer torture. View an item, hit the back button, wait 10 seconds for the list page to come back up, reload its content, and rebuild the page before your eyes before you can even start trying to scroll back to where you were.

Compare that to the old user experience where that list page would be a chunk of HTML generated at the server in 50ms and handed to you across the wire. Your browser would cache it, so the back button operation I describe above wouldn't even involve a trip to the server most of the time. Your browser would remember its previous scroll position. It was fast and it worked. It never occurred to any of us that people would decide to throw it out and replace it with something worse.

So if you're considering building one of these things, step one needs to be spinning up an EC2 box on another continent to act as your "dev" server. Latency is suddenly your number one priority in life, with your app being secondary. Please don't complain about this fact, since it's something you chose for yourself.

Thanks.
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Nice. Now, if they'd just drop their surcharge for ordering ebooks in mainland Europe I might actually use it. Paying $3-%5 extra per book just because I live somewhere else doesn't make sense with ebooks.
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A few I like:

- Flipboard
- has access to lots of news sites and presents them in really nice way
- Reeder - really great Google reader client
- Ebay - much nicer to use than the website
- Twitter
- Wunderlist - nice to do list tool
- Instapaper
- Kindle
- Dropbox
Ahh. I get it now. Then the Unified Theory of Life is that I want to eat and poop. Occasionally, I also want to socialize and have sex. People might go about it in different ways in different times and cultures, but it's really the same thing. Of course, architect-astronauting it really gives me insight into the common nature of seemingly disparate ways that people live.
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Also, the version on master does what you suggest and makes no attempt to accommodate replication-based merging, thereby dealing implicitly with merging revision histories stemmed to a height of 2. "Real" CouchDB replication is what we aim for, though, and so this algorithm must be written.
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There are quite a few good board game conversions out there.
I also quite enjoy Carcassonne.
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I'd love to see a ctypes binding into Python of LevelDB, also. Anyone working on that?
It shows only books downloaded to the 1st Kindle associated with particular account. Anyone knows how to display books from all Kindles on that account?
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You can use history.replaceState in newer browers to modify the URL in the address bar without affecting the history. It doesn't actually load the new page, though.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/Manipulating_the_browse...
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The main con in the article is that you are basically creating 2 applications in the same time (web API and JS Client).

But, this is also a pro in the same time. That way, you are forced to layer your application(s) appropriately, it is much easier to test and faster to develop (browser F5 instead of redeploy), and, as a bonus, you get nice rest API that you can expose to your clients or third-party developers.
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I wonder if there's a way to fudge this by registering the Kindle with a US company/address or something like that.

The problem is that to set up a service like that would cost money and... you'd end up having to pay to use it, so you're back at square one.
This is very interesting. As the article states, most SNES emulators are inaccurate by quite a bit. Despite that the incompatibilities are mostly imperceptible. Perfect emulation of the brain and human intelligence may be a long way away. But perhaps something very closely resembling it is not nearly as far off as we think.
Perhaps he would have been, but remember we're looking at this with the benefit of hindsight. It's easy for us to see people debating whether this was a marketing plow and think "why did he not prove his innocence in the first place".

But if you're just having a bit of fun doing something as a hobby, it doesn't neccesarily even occur to you that people might care what your link to Starbucks is. It's quite possible that the thought process in his head was "just in case anyone knows I've done work with Starbucks in the past, I should put up disclaimers that it isn't affiliated with them so there won't be any confusion", and not thought any more about it.
You went past theory, straight to tautology.
I really see only two ways here:

1) one of hundreds of equivalent syntaxes for the AST that assigns to location, and

2) location.reload()

So if we're going to play this game and these count as different, why not encode the identifiers in hex notation? Or replace the identifiers with lambda calls to compute them? Or eval()?

Seems like if these 535 ways count, so should the other infinity of them.
I think you would never feel this with Pivotal tracker, Gmail or other well designed apps. Its easy to cache rendered htnk elements in js and show them when back button is pressed and then update them in the background (in fact this is what we do).

If the initial page load is a problem, you can use a CDN to distribute the javascript files. I am not sure about the scroll problem though. Thanks for pointing it out
So... you can't cut and paste from it. Anyone want to dig in and look at how it's implemented? They must be fairly confident that people aren't going to use it to rip books off.
"Neat, wow, cool" is insignificant compared to the advantages of digital distribution. Done right (see: valve, humble bundle, even xbox live to some extent) it enables you to slash incremental delivery overhead for each copy of a game, which means that the purchase price can become almost entirely profit margin. Which further means that you can cut prices down to levels that will massively increase the volume of sales and increase your total profits, especially on older titles.

Higher profit margins, lower operating costs, and the ability to massively extend the profitability window of a given game (from only a few months to a year to more than a decade) make digital distribution extremely advantageous for anyone who can take advantage of it properly.
True as that may be, this doesn't really demonstrate that— it's just 535 different ways to access `location`. A regex would trivially disable every one. Of the things on that list.