skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
> Of course not. Reading some copyrighted code can have you entirely excluded from some jobs

That's not a law. That's a cautionary decision made by those companies or projects to make it more difficult for competitors to argue that code was copied.

Those projects could hire people familiar with competitor code and assign them to competing projects if they wanted. The contributors could, in theory, write new code without using proprietary knowledge from their other companies. In practice, that's actually really difficult to do and even more difficult to prove in court, so companies choose the safe option and avoid hiring anyone with that knowledge altogether.

Now the question is whether or not GitHub's AI can be argued to have proprietary knowledge contained within. If your goal is to avoid any possibility that any court could argue that GitHub copilot funneled proprietary code (accessible to GitHub copilot) into your project, then you'd want to forbid contributors from using CoPilot.
It'd be cool to have an option in the user's HN profile/account that they can toggle if they want to hide the greying out
Elephants form social hierarchies too (which provide 'value comparison', surely?) and have larger brains than us but still they are less smart, no?

They make vocal calls and signals but they haven't evolved a general-purpose language. Presumably they could have. But they haven't.

Whereas humans did. Language is a huge meme transmission booster and we evolved other boosters such as large sclera so you tell roughly where someone is looking.

I don't know why elephants haven't gone that way. Perhaps because their adaptive niche and lifestyle isn't so dependent on memes to start with. Whereas our ancestors were relatively helpless, physically speaking, and thus utterly dependent on their memes both for survival as well as for social position. Which placed strong survival and sexual selection pressures for improved meme transmission and storage.

People who behaved or even dressed differently were looked down upon by their tribes or social groups and thus were less likely or simply unable to access food and mates. So, you're right, there is a connection between social hierarchy and intelligence. But fundamentally it's to do with memes (see David Deutsch's The Beginning of Infinity, Chapters 15-16).
Eddy Current
Same here on Firefox, I have not tried another browser.

Makes me feel all warm and tingly with nostalgia, though.
So what happens when someone makes a transformer network that can read fanfics and animate them live trained from the whole collection of MPAA movies? I mean its inevitable. Given the history of the MPAA, I don't think they're gonna lie down and just take it. I feel like we're in a slippery slope to provoke the "IP lords" into brutally draconian measures that will make the Disney copyright extensions look like a tax deferral.
Hi HN. Didn't really expect to see this tweet make it here of all places. But that's cool.
The best thing would be to ban AirBNB and rental housing. Those two artificially restrict the supply of housing to an absurd extent and drive up the costs of everyone else’s housing.

I’m not alone in this - several cities have already banned AirBNB.
> I have free dictionary apps that remember every word that is looked up.

Care to provide any reference for these?
What happens when Microsoft sues someone for including Microsoft's code in another project?

Will it be fair use then?
You've already attempted to misslead on this; cite your sources.

And "we'll never know" isn't good enough. Again especially from someone caught lying.
This is more pro-developer shilling.

"This scared the hell out of homeowners in rich neighborhoods, because apartments were for poor people and minorities"

Bullshit. The fact is that they're ugly, they block out the sun from neighboring structures and yards, and they promote an influx of people that the community may not be prepared to handle.

These "good" bills are full of developer handouts like this:

"Off-street parking of up to one space per unit, except that a local agency shall not impose parking requirements in either of the following instances:

(A) The parcel is located within one-half mile walking distance of either a high-quality transit corridor, as defined in subdivision (b) of Section 21155 of the Public Resources Code, or a major transit stop, as defined in Section 21064.3 of the Public Resources Code.

(B) There is a car share vehicle located within one block of the parcel."

These bills regard a single bus stop as "transit," knowing full well that it's useless to the vast majority of people. And that "car share vehicle" provision is straight-up insulting. WTF, a single shared car for FOUR BLOCKS of apartment buildings? And what happens when that car gets removed or wrecked? Tear the buildings down?

So now you have a shitload of new people and cars taking all the street parking from existing residents.

The country isn't "full." What kind of fool promotes rolling out the welcome mat for MORE people in an area headed into yet another historic drought? We can't support the people who are already here, and these shills want to pack MORE in?

Insulting and stupid.
Ok, I should have added with enough total power to do some meaningful work...
why is it comical though? that man achieved a lot in his life and died on his own terms
All of my open-source stuff on GH is MIT. I don't care whether or not Copilot (or anyone else) uses it.

I seriously doubt that Copilot scans my (very few) private repos. Even then, I don't think I do anything particularly noteworthy.

But that is just me.
Looks like more than a minor infringement

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27710287

And reading is no infringement but writing maybe is.
toblish did a good job for (1). For (3) there are a number of related effects:

- black patients are simply poorly treated by white doctors. One notorious myth (still taught in some medical schools) is that black people have a higher pain tolerance than Whitt people and are less in need of painkillers. This is an extremely serious problem:

> “Black people’s nerve endings are less sensitive than white people’s.” “Black people’s skin is thicker than white people’s.” “Black people’s blood coagulates more quickly than white people’s.”

> These disturbing beliefs are not long-forgotten 19th-century relics. They are notions harbored by far too many medical students and residents as recently as 2016. In fact, half of trainees surveyed held one or more such false beliefs, according to a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Science. I find it shocking that 40% of first- and second-year medical students endorsed the belief that “black people’s skin is thicker than white people’s.”

(source: https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-we-fail-black-patient... )

- white racism itself is a constant source of low-level stress for many black Americans, which is plausibly (but not provably) implicated in numerous health disparities. It is obviously quite difficult to run an ethical controlled experiment here, but I think it’s quite believable that the overall impact of racism on anxiety (even if it’s somewhat minor for many individuals) can add up to a notable disparity in sleep hygiene.

I am having trouble finding specific sources because I am on my phone. I am also a mathematician, not a doctor or a sociologist. You could Google Scholar phrase like “medical racism” or “health impacts of discrimination” and do more reading.
> Infringement is for humans only; when computers do it, it’s fair use.

But ultimately the human is OK-ing the code and committing it, basically as his own work most of the time. I'm reasonably sure that this may matter to courts.
Elasticsearch is probably not needed, but a full-text index based search engine - plain vanilla Java Lucene or CLucene - could be very useful, and indeed be more appropriate given that the notes are unstructured text (I actually don't see the need for SQL unless you need to perform very complex operations on the structured meta-data).

The advantage is an easy-to-learn search syntax that is flexible and similar to Google:
https://lucene.apache.org/core/2_9_4/queryparsersyntax.html
In addition to a document field for your notes, you can manage and query any number of meta-data fields
e.g.

Tom M* birthday:July

retrieves all notes that mention Tom with a last name starting with "M" as long as the notes also have a meta-data field called birthday where the
value must be July. (Try compare doing this with the SQL equivalent version of the query!)
GitLab offers this in the web UI. Even Azure DevOps does. GitHub apparently doesn’t, though.
No, the fine article mentions that this flight will exceed the design parameters of the craft.
It depends on which "people" you're referring to. I suspect the degree to which the programmer knows this is of little relevance to the question of how the legal + risk management implications will play out.
> What's wrong with the Arctic Code Vault

It's nothing more than a publicity stunt whose one and only purpose is to advertise GitHub.
And the judge would really not care about the "we did not copy it, we made an algorithm that created the exact code" technicality. It's their job to see through such things and consider the case at a higher level.

So the judge would look at two pages of exactly the same code and then decide whether the "not really copied" part is big enough to be considered an original work or not. If it is big enough it is a copyright violation. Nobody cares that you used an algorithm in between, you took the original as an input and ended up with exactly the same thing as an output, copyright violation, case closed...
Timely. I've been looking for ways to abuse the HP ink-junkie in the corner.
> We don't have time to argue with every single individual who thinks we're wrong

Sure, but then don't enter the discussion at all. It's generally no faster to fight with the other person than to try to understand them.

> no matter how much we might think _they're_ the ones in the wrong

That assumes that's the point of the discussion. Do it to find out about the other person, help them find out about you, and to explore what they know and what you know.

> there's just no convincing them

I think that assumes, again, this adversarial fight. I'm not trying to convince them (see above). And often, people are open and curious if you approach or respond to them differently.
There's other clues than just the bongos in that video. Although they lean a bit more towards something closer to mushrooms than LSD.
Perhaps. My experience with ML is that it's more like:

* a person that follows popular trends than

* a person who finds/dissects clever/unique solutions to add to their tool belt

Honestly, I'm pretty sure ML hates my guts. Anything I've ever used involving it ends up burying my voice and slowly trying to etch away that parts of me that aren't normal enough.
Copilot assumes the code in the repo is right, so just start putting some wrong code there as an anti Copilot measure.
'Some sentences' makes me think of the link tax introduced to prevent aggregating news sources based on only headlines, so even generic sentences fall under copyright in certain cases.
https://docs.github.com/en/github/site-policy/github-privacy...
I recently came across CRAFT wich appears to have come out of the ICDAR2017 Robust reading challenge.

It performed better than expected. I only tested a few images so please don't take my word for it.

That led me to PaddleOCR. There is still plenty of room for improvement but I found it way more convenient to use for my purposes than messing with Tesseract.

https://github.com/clovaai/CRAFT-pytorch

https://github.com/PaddlePaddle/PaddleOCR
> Modern (north Indian) Sanskrit pronunciation uses Hindi/Urdu style of pronouncing vowels which was significantly influenced by Arabic and Persian.

This has to be the most far-fetched and absurd claim I’ve heard so far. Sanskrit has been orally transmitted since several millennia and there’s no change in its pronunciation and grammar since days of Panini. That robust oral tradition is well researched and proven to be fool proof.
> https://cbsi.secure.force.com/CBSi/articles/en_US/Knowledge/... - this might be what you want?

That contact is for CBS Interactive. CNET was sold to Red Ventures in October of last year, so OP needs to contact Red Ventures' legal department, or CNET's. (they could try to contact CBSI, but there's no guarantee they'll forward on the message)

Red Ventures contact info: https://www.redventures.com/contact CNET's contact info: https://www.cnet.com/about/contact-us/ An additional contact form for CNET: https://cbsi.secure.force.com/CBSi/submitcase?template=templ...

OP should get on the phone to CNET and ask them who to direct DMCA takedown notices to, and mention that the legal contact info is still pointing to CBS Interactive. OP should send a physical copy of the DMCA takedown notice in the mail (certified mail) as well as e-mail, and follow up after a few weeks. They will probably take longer than normal as it seems they're still cleaning up from the acquisition.
What extra steps? Arch is missing debug packages, a package manager that can detect bad partial updates, different architectures etc.
HTTrack – Website Copier
Don’t be too eager! Weakened copyright doesn’t necessarily translate to an overall benefit, at least for software.

Weakening copyright also weakens copyleft - for example, it seems reasonable to me that the producer of an open-source work should be entitled to require reciprocal openness from people who build upon it. If I can legitimately launder some GPL source code (say, a Linux kernel driver) through an ML model without being obliged to release the resulting code, I think everyone loses.
The two are not exclusive. You can have Apple handle your mail and Google everything else. If anything, splitting mail from “stuff” is a smart move nowadays. Not everything needs to be under one roof.
There may be discussions to be made about licenses, but "to watch people cheer at having their work and time exploited by a company worth billions" is a disappointingly myopic take, especially from a developer.

Information that is aggregated and organized for easy retrieval is worth more than the sum of individual bits of information. I thought that was common sense.

We might as well complain that billionaire supermarket chains are pocketing all the profit while not growing a single potato by themselves.
If humans understand this then presumably lawyers would start hunting for code replication caused by Copilot--using automated mechanisms similar to those used by professors at Universities to catch people cheating--and do the moral equivalent of ambulance chasing: offering to file all the paperwork on spec for a cut of an assured payout. But if people in general believe this to be fair use somehow, then GPL is essentially dead (I have been a big advocate for it over the years, and if people are doing this--and everyone thinks it is OK--then it loses the entire point as far as I am concerned).
To train your model, yeah, probably ok. But I don't think anybody will see people using the duplicated code that AI insert on your codebase the same way.
> because Moore’s Law has slowed

Not sure that is really true based on the data. Remember, Moore's law says the number of transistors in an IC doubles every two years, which doesnt necessarily mean a doubling of performance. For a while in the 90's, performance was also doubling every two years, but that was largely due to frequency scaling.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Moore%27...
This is true, but there's also a murkier middle option. I used to work for a company that made a lot of money from its software patents but I was in a division that worked heavily in open-source code. We were forbidden to contribute to the high-value patented code because it was impossible to know whether we were "tainted" by knowledge of GPL code.
Man, it's almost like you're saying progressive web apps need to be taken more seriously.

Sarcasm aside, I have used the Starbucks PWA and it's counterparty mobile app. PWA felt snappier and had better load times.

So I don't buy the thought that the web is somehow inferior. It just has Apple working against it because it threatens the app store model.

That aside, I'm excited for Capicitor 3 and what it will mean at the native runtime level for creating web native experiences.
> Your example is the very specific scenario where you're attempting to replicate an entire program, API, etc., to identical specifications. That's obviously not fair use. You're not dealing with little bits and pieces, you're dealing with an entire finished product.

No - google's 9 lines of sorting algorithm (iirc) copied from Oracle's implementation were not considered fair use in the Google / Oracle debacle.

Likewise SCO claimed that 80 copied lines (in the entirety of the Linux source code) were a copyright violation, even if we never had a legal answer to this.
(Jumping into the discussion with an example)

Let's say a person buys a train ticket from A to B, let say from Brussels Airport to Brussels Central Station. The ticket states that in order to be valid, you need to pay a second fee, a special fee because this is the airport transportation route. The person refuses and goes onto the train anyway. What crime did the person commit? A ticket violation or Fare dodging?

You get a similar situation when it comes to parking. If a person has a valid parking ticket but are parking when they are cleaning the street (i.e. during a no-parking period), the violation is not a parking ticket violation. It is a parking violation, just like any other parking without permission. The fact that the person has an ticket doesn't change anything.

Breach of contract against the ticket holder is very unlikely. Breach of contract against the ticket seller is possible. In the end, the most likely outcome of a person without a valid ticket is that they get treated exactly the same as a person without a ticket at all.
Snyk did the same with Snyk code to build their “ML driven SAST” offering.

Pretty much anyone can scrape GitHub and train their model.

What exactly is the legal implications of this has yet to be tested.

Pretty much every model is susceptible to some sort of model inversion or set inclusion attack.

By their own admissions Co-Pilot sometimes outputs PII that part of the code and code snippets verbatim, even if it’s rare iirc around 0.1% it’s still a huge legal liability for anyone who uses the tool, especially since it’s unclear how these inclusions are spread out and what triggers them. For example it could be that a particular coding / usage of Co-Pilot style or working on a specific subset of problems increases the likelihood of this occurring.

ML is too new to have been tested in court this has more ramifications beyond just licensing, for example if you use PII to train a dataset and receive a GDPR deletion request do you need to throw away and retrain your model?

I don’t think people should be angry however I also think that this needs to be test in court and multiple times before this can be “safe to use”.

But I also don’t think that the ML model is necessarily a derivative work.

For example if you use copyleft material to construct a CS course someone would be hard pressed to argue that the course now needs to be released freely yet alone that anything that the students would write after attending the course would fall under derivative work too.
People aren't responsible for their own actions?
Exactly. It's not like if you couldn't fly from Los Angeles to New York once a month - you would just drive by yourself - and produce the same amount of carbon.

You wouldn't produce any carbon, because you'd likely never make the trip!
> Sure but that's not really helpful, the only thing it does

It encodes the necessary information in the commit graph, without introducing a completely new concept (commit groups). It’s true that Git doesn’t give you the tooling to get that information out of the box, though.
> Github does not own the Arctic Vault, there is an independent company behind it

Github are the ones doing all the archiving. So, in essence, they do own that. Piql are just the ones providing the storage: it's a commercial for-profit entity employed for backup by another commercial for-profit entity.
There is no good reason to mimic matplotlib's API except that everyone knows it.
This is my take-home:

> We are obsessed with shiny without considering that it might be sharp.
Indeed it was political. IMHO if a US supersonic commercial plane comes into service without an Airbus counterpart, it won't have access to the European skies. At least not the over french territory. The industry is still very salty that the Concorde market was taken from under them.
I guess copying my code to microfiche is basically reprinting it without my permission.
To be fair they’ve handled email for decades so if the service really sucked we’d have plenty of reports by now. I think overall we’re past the poor experience offered by early cloud offerings by Apple. Hopefully.
I mean general people people, not only developers: people includes managers and lawyers and politicians and everyone who might cause you to have GPL Copilot separate from MIT Copilot... the same people who right now cause licenses to matter, despite many developers not understanding anything about copyright law and just thinking "I'll steal that other developer's work as it makes my life easier".

If anything, I think the real test of this tech is going to be audio, as it has the right overlap of "big copyright is going to get pissed", "there already exist tools that attempt to automatically detect even small bits of infringement", "people actually litigate even small bits of infringement", and "it feels feasible in the near future": you whistle a tune, and the result is a fully produced backing track that sometimes happens to exactly sound like the band backing Taylor Swift on a recognizable song and generates Taylor Swift's voice, almost verbatim, singing some of her lyrics to go along with it.
Sorry, but you're not recalling correctly. :)

The Supreme Court decided Google v. Oracle was fair use. It was 3 months ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_LLC_v._Oracle_America,_...

That's the highest form of precedent, the question has now been effectively settled (unless Congress ever changes the law).

Edit: added a dummy hash to end of URL so HN parses it correctly (thanks @thewakalix below)
Of all the hills to die on, this seems like an odd choice. Why not work with others to iron out the legal and technical issues with this new technology?
And you can go ecen faster

>"TGV called V150 holds the record for the highest speed on any national rail system - it hit a whopping 357.2 mph "
Sorry but it is not a robot publishing the "lifted" code but a human. So the copyright will very much apply. That's an argument like saying CTRL+C/CTRL+V is OK because it is a "computer doing it".

Plus it is not "minor infringement" but code is being lifted verbatim - e.g. as has been demonstrated by the Quake square root code.

Feel free to test this theory in court ...
AFAIK, in bigger (more populous) countries, it seems that the pay is going to be according to the average for the area, scaled. This is giving countries in Eastern Europe a bit of an advantage. In my case (in Bulgaria) while there is a big difference between living in Sofia and a smaller town, a lot of companies are opting to pay the same regardless of which town you are now working from. And I've already seen, pre-covid, people from western europe coming to work and live in here and now that could become even more accessible.
Pretty sure copyright and IP laws don’t overrule innovation.