Thanks for commenting again... I appreciate it's not easy to keep up the debate once a post dropped off the HN front page.

My comments:

> Yes actually; it was a specifically Christian endeavor

I wasn't aware of that. But I'm talking about how it is today. Most humans, religious or not, agree that slavery is wrong. Same with people choosing to adopt a vegan mindset.

It's wrong to oppress and exploit billions of sentient beings every year, just so we can enjoy a burger, when it's not necessary anymore for our survival. Nothing religious or cult like about that. Just being principled and saying no to cruelty and destruction. Simple as that.

> I just think about it for 5 minutes; most of those UN reports are manifest nonsense

It's not just the UN. The other link I shared was a 5 year Oxford Uni study. Is that nonsense too?

There are countless of other academic studies about the damage our current large scale animal agriculture causes. It's not just GHGs. It's pollution and habitat loss which causes biodiversity loss.

Damian Mander, ex special forces guy who now uses his skills to protect endangered animals, said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUMGBwgGYWw&t=100s

> That said, I think it's possible to meet net meat demand using acceptable (to me) farming practices.

Any more details on this? With what would we replace factory farming, which is already highly optimized to get the most out of the land and animals (hence why animal welfare is so low or non existent).

> There is almost no group of people in the world I trust lest than dietary "medical experts", and quite frankly people who take them seriously are gullible.

I wasn't clear on this one. These are not just some dieticians. PCRM - the Physicians Committee combines the clout and expertise of more than 17,000 physicians.

Again, have a look at https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/plant-based-diets/nutrit...

> why do 90+% of vegans look like crap?

There are millions of people out there who don't eat meat or don't consume any animals products. I doubt you've met them all.

Again, vegan doesn't necessarily mean healthy. You have to make an effort to eat healthily. Likewise eating meat doesn't mean you're automatically eating healthily.

> Why would I bother watching that piece of garbage?

Thanks for sharing the biolayne article. I've not come across that one yet. He claims Gamechangers was biased, probably to an extend, and yet he is very biased and even funded by the egg industry[1].

But the most important point is that he agrees that you can function at an elite athletic level on a plant-based diet[0]. That was my whole point. Most of us are not elite athletes, so if they can do it, it should be even easier for folks not operating at that physical level. A lot of our food is already fortified with B12 or vitamin D, so you don't really have to do anything special. So many great meat free and nutritious recipes out there. I'm not bald (btw, a plant based diet doesn't cause someone to be bald) or scrawny and my doc said my blood work looks excellent and I should continue with whatever I'm doing.

My thought process goes as follows:

- We know that our current meat addiction is not sustainable and it can't be our main source of protein to feed the world.

- We know animals suffer immense cruelty when they are being factory farmed or when they are being processed in slaughter houses.

- We know the working conditions are horrendous in these slaughterhouses. Why would we want other fellow humans to go through that? I'd rather chop up vegetables all than killing and gutting animals all day. Which one would you choose?

- We know we can survive and thrive without having to kill animals and consume their flesh.

The most important step is that people say no to factory farming and vote with their wallet. This will force the market to come up with more sustainable alternatives, which is already happening.

So given this choice, why wouldn't we go with the option that causes the least harm on multiple levels?

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[0] "I’m not saying you can’t be an elite athlete and be vegan, you certainly can, but you can also be an elite athlete and NOT be vegan [...]"

[1] In summary, Layne throws out accusations of cherry picking and bias, and yet exhibits unbelievable bias and cherry picking. His critique of the movie is more a critique of veganism. I really don’t think he watched the whole movie, and I am certain most of the on line critics have not seen a single minute.

The movie was designed to show that you can get enough protein and be successful as a vegan athlete, even at a very high level of competition.

From: http://proteinaholic.com/response-to-layne-nortons-review-of...