skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Seems to be down right now..?
Ask HN: Downvoting
After having a previous account banned following a "bad" comment on a single thread that led to about 10 downvotes because it went against the grain, I'd like to see if there's any consideration of removing downvoting from HN in order to encourage debate while keeping upvoting and flagging intact.

I ask because following that incident I will no longer be presenting dissenting views here, irrespective of perceived value.

What does HN think about removing downvoting?
Some of my Chinese friends say, "If you can solve it with money, it isn't a real problem."
And the fact that you can make people confirm their email address before finalizing their registration.
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Working surprisingly well too.
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As long as that desktop machine is not running Netscape, Lotus 123, or any Borland product.
Problem is, of course, that there are serious amounts of lunacy on both sides. The recent tornadoes, for example, are NOT the result of global warming. Neither is Katrina or any other historical event.

Unfortunately, it's very obvious that the truth does not lie "in the middle".

Also what this article does is so patently stupid it strains credulity. Event A will affect 100 variables and, by itself, cause a temperature drop of 0.3 degrees. Event B will affect the SAME 100 variables and, by itself, cause a temperature increase of 2 degrees. So now let's ignore all those variables and say "that'll give 1.7 degrees". That's NOT how it works, you have to simulate the effects completely, and then make an entirely new prediction of the combined effects.

And, frankly, given the success rate of IPCC predictions (they've been making them since 1990 you know) ... I don't know how any scientist can claim with a straight face their predictions are reasonable.

(we're outside their 95% confidence interval for their predictions for 1990, 1995 and 2000, and we're very close to leaving the 95% interval for the 2005 report too, given 1 prediction per 5 years and 3 mistakes already ... how exactly is this "95%" thing reasonable ? Each of these reports gave predictions 100 years out, and none of their predictions have happened after a mere 10 years (BTW: in all cases so far, it's cooler than predicted. I'm not saying the climate hasn't warmed)
Except your gut is wrong. Recycling is not really clean. For some things maybe but not for everything (it uses far too much water).

Solar? Not clean at all. (For photovoltaic which is what most people mean. Solar thermal is good though.)

And just because they are made from plastic means nothing. Plastic is cleaner than wood you know (i.e. uses less energy to make and use).

There is a fact that no one wants to acknowledge: In timeframes of under 20 or so years there are NO energy technologies that are clean. None. For timeframes longer than 20 there is exactly one: Nuclear. There is nothing else.

A solar cell will probably fail before it manages to return more energy than it took to make (it's hard to say for sure though how long they will last, none have been around long enough yet). Wind can never be more than a minor part of the energy supply. Hydro is fully tapped out. Geothermal causes earthquakes. What else is there? Maybe solar thermal, but that requires a huge amount of electrical wires (the energy source is very far from the consumption point), too much apparently since no one is doing it except for some tests.
SAP is considered a tech leader, just not one interesting enough to mention alongside all the other tech leaders. I fear Microsoft is headed the same way.
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Eh, command line output is a bit weird. Still, trying to get it work in Emacs... :)
> for the most part you know in your gut what's right.

For complex issues, that is the worst advice possible. Humanity is barely rational as it is. The last thing we need is politicians (and those who elect them) 'going with their gut'. This really is an anti-intellectual stance.
I would be happy to leave it to academics if they hadn't transformed into a political body. Too late.
After preparing the index with `git add -p` you can use `git stash --keep-index` before committing to help test your changes. This is a good practice to follow for exactly the reason you describe.
Down votes? I know physicist, who tell me in private, that they are afraid about a point of no return. That we heat the climate up to a point where the system gets unstable. This is, as far as I know, what could have happend on planet Mars and it could happen here. Yet, you barley see anyone mentioning this public.

A sane risk assessment number should be something like:

Gain / (Risk * Damage)

So if the, theoretical, damage on Earth could make it something like Mars, we should act, even if we loose a lot of gain, that is comfort, and though the risk might seem low.
On a sight note, the same goes for other humanity threatening dangers, like big asteroids.
He's probably getting downmodded, which isn't right. Don't downmod someone just because you disagree. Upmod what you agree with, and leave what you disagree with alone. Reserve downmods for stupid comments.
Pretty cool, but it needs the ability to pitch up/down to be useful.
Fine sign slide
To quote the great Piet Hein:

A Psychological Tip:

Whenever you're called on to make up your mind,

and you're hampered by not having any,

the best way to solve the dilemma, you'll find,

is simply by spinning a penny.

No - not so that chance shall decide the affair

while you're passively standing there moping;

but the moment the penny is up in the air,

you suddenly know what you're hoping.
"Scientific certainty" is not a popularity contest as you describe.

Everybody can agree and still be wrong. Einstein's work is a good example of that.
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I'd love to see more engineering efforts going towards improving our standard of living regardless of what the climate does. By all means, worry about whether the planet is getting warmer or cooler or a bit of both dependent on the place...but let's find a way to live regardless of CO2-induced warming, sunspot rarity or some other, unforeseen dramatic change.

A lot of the political and societal measures are aimed at making energy more expensive, reducing consumption and promoting a rather righteous view of how people should live. Why not spend the same effort to promote technologies that allow people to live however they want in a way that is sustainable regardless of the environment?
On a related side note, if two people submit the same URL, the second (and subsequent) submissions just up-vote the first.
I didn't say anything about popularity mattering.

In the absence of any better way of ascertaining objective truth about the world than the scientific method, I choose to accept the fact of consensus -- that a large number of scientists have failed to falsify the theory -- as being a meaningful indication about the truth of global warming.

EDIT -- I assume with your reference to Einstein, you mean that the whole world was wrong about the motion of physical bodies, with their notions from Newtonian models, until relativity came along? If so, you may care to read this: http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm

It's about the difference between a wrong theory and an incomplete one.
I think you read it wrong. Varnish is not a kernel module.
>When you fetch an object, which of its properties (columns in the table) do you need? ORM can't know, so it gets all of them (or it requires you to say, breaking the abstraction).

Not true. If you take the nHibernate approach of returning a proxy argument then you can get clients to "tell you" without breaking the abstraction. You normally don't worry about this, though, because pulling 30 properties usually isn't much different then pulling 3.
It's looking interesting from when you start sinking with Youtube etc. Before that I thought it was just another Evernote clone. I'd like to see more examples like that.
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Uhh, dude, Netscape wouldn't exist 'til the next decade when they came up with that.
A sometimes available workaround is to look for the "Print article" or "print view" button, which will usually pop up the article all on one page. From there you can wget it, or print to file, or whatever.
I like it, but it'd be really nice if it linked each rule to some kind of explanation on why is the rule right.
Yup, nail on the head. And this post scared the begeezes out of me, because it was so close. You had me on the phone to Paypal Australia within seconds. Cost me a fortune.

Luckily, I was completely wrong, and all is well. Sorry for anyone who panicked. I wasn't expecting it to get published so quickly without further discussion. I didn't even provide the screen shots at that time. It's all rather embarrassing. Mr Zee Kane took charge when he woke up and we worked through it once I got some key movers to endorse him. I didn't want to spread the apparent weakness to those who might take advantage of it. I was hasty in following advise to make it more widely known, and they were hasty to publish straight away without further discussion.

The account I was given access to was set-up against an email synonym I didn't know about, and Paypal never bothered to verify the email address. It's not my account though, someone else's name, address, and other details. A bit nefarious but not a security issue unless you plan to open a account with someone else's email address. Now, I'm not sure who's the hacker and who's the victim! I plan to request that Paypal disable the account, or at least remove my email from it, and if they refuse I will change the email myself.
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What do you mean by scary?

I can understand if you don't want to disclose exact figures on cannibalization, but can you provide any indication?
Microsoft was a huge underdog in many areas, namely to Novell and Wordperfect. Later in the 90s they tried to break into enterprise software, and were largely laughed at, having little credibility in the space. Today, they make billions on Windows Server, SQL Server and Exchange.
climate change and green energy are so complicated and political

There isn't much complicated about it climate change: the full consensus is that it's happening because we're burning too much oil.

The politics? Less than 10 years ago, the world's largest industry was oil when the price was roughly stable at around $20 a barrel.

Today a barrel costs $100. For something the world consumes at a thousand barrels a second, that's huge. At the price a couple weeks ago, it was a better investment to buy the world's biggest commodity than Google when it IPO'd. You might want to read that again.

Climate change is a force of urgency in the switch away from oil to green energy. You can be sure it will be fought every step of the way with every tool available.
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People don't downvote dissenting views. They downvote comments that lack value to the discussion.
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Yup, that's about the size of it.
CNN provides those videos at essentially no cost to the viewer. While every website should strive to be 100% accessible, this litigation strikes me as frivolous, unfair, and more than a little scary. There are places accessibility should be legislated and mandated. An essentially free news and video site on the Internet is not one of them.
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Yup. More importantly, they should verify email addresses at registration time and delete accounts which don't get verified.

Almost all other sites do this. It's simple best practice and it stops them spamming third parties.
I would be interested in knowing how much of your description is deduction on your part, and how much is received fact from definitive sources. I would be interested in knowing how and why your comment was deemed "bad."

I don't know of any definitive cases where someone made a comment that was appropriate, got vast numbers of down-votes, and then got banned because of it. I know of many people who have complained about being banned, only to discover that it wasn't the case.

I do know of many people who present dissenting views, but present them carefully and constructively, and who do not attract down-votes because of their comments. They work hard to get people to think first, and not to react with a jerk of the knee (so to speak). It is possible. I've seen it. It's not easy, and I suspect not everyone can do it.

In short, it's unclear that your beliefs about the situation are accurate - there are many ways to get these things wrong. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that your view about down-votes may not be accurate.

And no, I don't think down-votes should be removed, although I frequently don't understand how they are being used.
Enough people found out that they were the product, it just turned out differently. http://boingboing.net/2011/03/27/best-iphone-app-revi.html
The "can't compile/test on Mac" issue can be solved with an OSX virtual machine if you have a good pc and don't want to spend money for a real mac.
Mind changing the title of this thread?
That is the wish, I do believe the reality is quite different in my experience.
That was once the case, but I think it's no longer true. Of late I've seen relevant and constructive comments down-voted, and I've been able to discern no reason other than the view expressed was an unpopular one.

If there's a mechanism to indicate a comment is inappropriate, people will use it to indicate disapproval.

If there's no mechanism to indicate a comment is inappropriate, inappropriate and off-topic will abound.

Removing down-votes might help, but I doubt it.
But Eventbrite was in this place just a few years ago...
Always wanted to say this. #silverlining
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Take as an example some comments I made prior to making this post in the climate change thread currently on the frontpage (ice age). Although I have now deleted these, I simply stated that climate change prediction was uncertain due to the number of factors involved. A simple 2 line or so comment in reply to a poster asking why conflicting views existed on the subject. I believe it was of value (it answered his/her question, yet was of course an unpopular opninion to hold. A few minutes later it hit -1.

I won't be repeating the mistake of thinking I can discuss a matter openly here and believe downvoting adds nothing to a discussion (in contrast to upvoting which can be very useful for sorting comments).
I don't think the aim of politics is to make people's live more miserable. Energy is being made more expensive to account for the externalities . The markets can then figure out how to make us live well with the proper energy costs.

What kind of tech promotion do you imagine, other than more efficient energy production and consumption?
Plus the word is costumier.
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Isn't that what the flagging system is for? Removal of spam and inappropriate comments. With upvotes acting as a counter force to filter good content up...?
Fusion. The ultimate, clean energy generation potential.

Also, don't discount wind that fast. The typical "it will have to whole country with these 1-2 MW turbines" line of argument is old. Modern offshore turbine designs are 6MW, getting to 10MW by 2012 and 20MW designs are in the works now. Advances in the field have been massive just in under a decade, with higher output efficiency (gearless designs) and less overall maintenance effort.
How do you even downvote, do you need a certain level of karma?
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shut up retard.
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I think the greenhouse effect is totally uncontroversial. To what extent the climate will change due to that is slighlty more scientifically controversial, but as uninformed lay person I'd say is fairly broad consensus.

Which green energy choices are economically feasible is much more controversial - there's counterintuitive things like - is it better to subsidize solar/wind while not really feasible to subsidize technology development or build natural gas plants (which are proven to be economically feasible and cleaner than oil I believe - but obviously still a fossil fuel).

Edit: tried googling for gas-is-cleaner-than-oil citation, and found - http://www.propublica.org/article/more-reasons-to-question-w...
saying earlier studies may be wrong and it's actually dirtier than coal.
Doubt is a very good thing.

It's propaganda versus propaganda now.
I will never forgive whoever has made global warming a political issue, because it means debating rationally about it has become impossible.

Climate is a very complicated thing, especially when studied on a planetary scale. It's a bunch of chaotic parameters, and any prediction about it is likely to be wrong, or imprecise.

Much of science works that way, but problems arise when you need to make political decisions about such matters. You can't make large-scale decisions that will affect millions based on flimsy predictions that may turn out to be wrong.
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In real science you don't get to use the word "adverse". That's a value judgement and it has no place in exact sciences, which are (supposed to be) value-free, purely descriptive.
Thorium molten salt reactors are potentially a good option - nuclear that doesn't produce much in the way of dangerous byproducts, and can't melt down. China's investing quite heavily in them iirc.
In this discussion, everyone seem to broadly assume that it's an all-or-nothing affair.

More precisely, it's a cost-benefit decision. If most queries you will make are hampered by the ORM then by all means, don't use one. But if like in many (most?) situations, an ORM greatly abstracts and eases design and development for 90%+ of your operations and you have like 10% queries to be either tuned or handwritten (even if it has to be handwritten against multiple database types to preserve portability), then an ORM is a net benefit.

Compare it to inline asm in C, or C modules in Python: the higher level stuff makes it efficient to work with top level concepts 90% of the time, but sometimes you have to go down to be actually efficient, or even simply be able to do something, even if that means losing some form of independence (which would then mandate writing the same function for a different platform if you want to preserve portability). Not only it is not an anti-pattern, by no means does it mean either that the abstraction is fundamentally flawed.

The very idea that "going around" an ORM is somehow proving that ORMs are flawed is simply wrong. There are problems that ORMs are built to solve, and there are problems they can't ever solve. "Going around" is part of the deal because it's not a "work around", it's a "work together".

This is very visible in the article, especially the moment the author states that "I claim that the abstraction of ORM breaks down not for 20% of projects, but close to 100% of them". Indeed this is the case, but for close to 100% of those close-to-100%-projects where it "fails", the ORM is helpful for managing 90% of data access implementation. The 10% remainder may need to be implemented at a lower level, but wouldn't it be silly to spend a lot of time on those 90% of code that would get used 10% of the time? This is what ORMs are about, and saves a lot of time to develop the 10% of code that is critical both in usage volume and in performance. Of course such ratios are highly project dependent, and this is what warrants a thoughtful analysis to select the right tool for each task, of which there can be multiple in a single project, or even _object_. ORM, just as NoSQL, is simply not the end-all be-all solution, yet that does not make it a very valid pattern any less.

(edit: cosmetic/typo)
So, how exactly couldn’t it be a political issue?
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The biggest problem with CSS today is that the source code is the product. One possible solution to this problem is to use SASS (http://sass-lang.com), thereby separating the concerns of the quality, structure, reusability (etc) of code from the aspect of browser rendering efficiency.

Many of the aspects of CSS Nicole is trying to improve with OOCSS/CSSLint simply vanishes when you use SASS (though some still stand). Some of the points as they pertain to CSSLint: https://github.com/stubbornella/csslint

Take for instance the issue of reuseability. Nicole's solution to that is less CSS selector specificity, to not use IDs, and to sprinkle containers with several modular CSS-classes. By using SASS functions, mixins and extends you can achieve that without doing either of those things.

I much prefer using SASS to manage my source code and the related concerns, without resorting to these kinds of sacrifices.
There are already Chrome plugins that do the same thing while you're browsing.
NZ politicians condemning the exact law they just passed a month ago. Brilliant work guys, kiwi tax dollars at work.
By focusing public attention on something else. It's not as if we had a shortage of problems.
Then, the matter of climate change could be settled in a scientific manner, as opposed to a religious debate involving legions of people who don't know what they're talking about.

Obviously, i'm being unrealistic. Once it's become politicized, it's already too late.
The issue is that it has become a political issue before we were sure what the issue was. Now we don't know whether or not we should act, instead of deciding what we should do.
In addition to CCAN, there are (somewhat) general-purpose libraries like GNOME's glib.
Those aren't quite ready for primetime yet though. It'll be decades before we are getting energy that way, even if there was concerted research.