skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
If that argument were valid wouldn't it apply to any language? Would Forth be 1000x better if nobody used anything else?
It seems like the overall trend is that people are getting more and more unsatisfied with the current landscape now that a little bit of the sugar high from first wave of shiny new tech is starting to fade away.

The jump from "whatever js was in 2014" -> angularjs junk -> react/vue/angular was pretty big.

But now the glamour is gone and we're moving into the phase of actually having to maintain some of the things we built and the wear from bad decisions is starting to show.

-----

Svelte also seems like the cool new kid on the block. Svelte surprises me in how much people fawn over it. I really don't understand the hype since I don't think it's a huge jump forward, and there's also a lot of "misunderstandings" about it in comparison to other frameworks.

Like one thing I've seen a lot is people mention how it requires less code, but it's not that much smaller. It just looks smaller for small test cases where there are like 8 lines of code or because svelte makes stylistic choices that have tradeoffs that aren't immediately obvious. If you take a loot at react/vue, they're not that much bigger for realistic component size.

Anyways, front-end framework discussion is long and muddled and confusing. I wanted to make a point of how svelte people often confuse the engineering/implementation vs the philosophical approach in frameworks. Things like svelte's bundle size being smaller is because other frameworks don't put as much emphasis on it. I was going to say that react is bloated and that preact is much smaller, but looking it up it seems like somehow react is 2.6kb, preact is 4kb, and svelte is 1.5kb. Angular is 62kb. Which proves two points, react/vue can be smaller if it wants, the approach it takes doesn't limit it and that things move so fast that somehow preact makes bigger bundles than react.
I am not so sure that we disagree. I would consider instant messaging services 'critical infrastructure'. The difference seems to be, that you want to support projects that are large already, while I would certainly put more focus on smaller projects as those are the ones which can initiate change.

I find it heartbreaking, that we still depend on WhatsApp and Zoom. Neither service owner is particular trustworthy. Communication is definitely critical infrastructure and yet, the open-source alternatives are very limited (in quality, not in quantity). So investing in this kind of functionality is key.
Your opinion is unoriginal and unhelpful. Show me another platform with the reach and usability as the web.
I can confirm that the seeming majority of application-layer code written at Google is Java (with Go being a relatively small contributor by way of comparison).

That said, I shudder at the thought of Java being any larger than it is, much less ubiquitous. If I had to choose between this world and one where Java was the "one true language" (or even a more extreme version of the current situation where we have other languages all built atop the JVM) I would pick this world with fragmented languages every single time.
Yes, Go is a fundamentally broken language too. As is C++, as is C. Sum types are the absolute bare minimum a language must have for me to not consider it broken beyond hope.

Go in particular is really unfortunate for a language so new. The language's weaknesses have dropped my estimation of its creators by several notches.
10 minutes to compile? Intense.
>So having enough beef to push 1 gigabit NICs is good but planning for the future and adding 2.5 gb or higher is better.

I'm using I5-2500K's for firewalls. 1 gigabit hardly moves the CPU usage. I have all NIC offload turned off.

Btw. I would really consider OPNsense instead if you are building custom firewalls. Pfsense is an atrocious company. Trying to kill off OPNsense by buying domains that tell lies and AFAIK no one outside Netgate can actually build from source. They are not open source even though they claim so. They are also moving to using DRM.

https://github.com/rapi3/pfsense-is-closed-source
No, because Covid-19 is not going to dominate our lives forever.

The future looks like pretty much like the past.
still, a standard supernova would be be 10^17 hellajoules, or 100 petahellajoules (hellapetajoules?).
Report recommends taping electrocardiogram pads over valves for best results.
The Lua standard library also uses -1 to mean "last element" in various functions; never found it to be an issue. In fact, it feels quite symmetric, going 1,2,3 from one side and -1,-2,-3 from the other.
I handle it the same way I do fund raising or hiring for a position. You don't slowly drip the work over the years, instead you go all in and try to get it over with as soon as possible.

In other words, that spend tends to be spiky. You go all in for a couple of months, swiping, boosting, super-liking, building a giant funnel top. Hopefully a few people make it through and you both agree in the end that it's a long-term match, and you can immediately delete the apps and focus on building something meaningful together. Ideally to never have to swipe again, at least at this point in my life.

The same can work if you're trying to "play the field", it's just not where I'm at anymore at this point.
That's how most citizens feel in a system with two parties which haven't served the people in decades.
Cloud Run could be what you are looking for (I'm not affiliated with it, just a regular costumer).

https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/serverless/cloud-run-...
Sure, it doesn't react to assignment, but it still encourages the immutable data patterns of a more functional/reactive programming style.

The docs for Forgo here show a lot of direct DOM manipulation and/or direct assignment to mutable data structures, which you then have to synchronize.

I personally almost never have to think about these things when I build with React and treat everything as immutable / pure. Then things update according to reference inequality / shallow diffing of props. You can even update a prop at the top of the component tree and it won't re-render children that didn't actually change (and without you having to orchestrate that yourself).
Awesome! I didn't realize Puppet was clojure, nor pandora.
I feel the same way about DI. Great in theory, but the supposed benefits are never realized.

While performance tuning a process for a client I showed them how one request was creating 420 objects (some very expensive) through DI and only using two of them.
FWIW I downloaded the .mobi and tried to open it with Kindle on MacOS, and Kindle crashed while "Preparing your book", every time.
This kind of mentality reminds me of solipsism. It's just not interesting to talk about, insightful, or productive, outside of being a contrarian edge-case you could write a paper about.

Cool, you're a cynic. Yes, as we all know, most startups fail and the US healthcare system sucks. Anything else to add?
Hardly chilling. Simply pretending tradeoffs don't exist doesn't make them go away.
Sounds like you think you know best, too.

No, Java would not be the "only" language in any set of circumstances, however fictional. No language will be, ever, because no language is better than all other languages at everything.
I've lived in the California bay area all my life and my friends and I use it all the time
Top-level .th (Thailand) is very expensive, but .co.th is reasonable ($50/yr).
Last year I had a problem where I had a function that was logging and a sync() call in another process was blocking the logging for greater than 10 seconds and this caused a timeout aborting the operation my code was performing. I have now moved all logging into a queue that logs on its own thread. This was a gotcha I never anticipated.
"I'm broken and can not use a language without Sum Types"

There, I fixed it for you.
How do you get such accurate GPS positioning inside a large building?
I've been using https://tsed.io/ with great success.
My recollection is that Pinky saves Brain's ass on a regular basis and it goes completely unnoticed. Yes, he routinely "messes up Brain's plans" but that's in part because Brain's plans are almost always idiotic and Pinky prevents him from doing what he wanted to do, much like as a mom I often interfered with first-born child's attempts to climb on the oven door to check out what I was cooking on the stove top and similar shenanigans.

I'm sure that as a toddler my oldest son thought I was an idiot and a meanie face who spent all my time thwarting his brilliant plans. (I know for a fact he read late in part because when I bought some reading program and would go through the exercises with him, he was looking at me and thinking stuff along the lines of "I already told you ten times that is the letter P. How much repetition do you need to remember it? God!")

Edit: I will add that the lyrics to the theme song include the line "One is a genius, the other's insane" and fail to specify which is which, leaving room for people to either accept the obvious interpretation that Brain is the genius or to go with the less obvious interpretation that Pinky is the real genius and Brain is merely an insane megalomaniac.

See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/11r512/pink_an...
Being hired to work on Clojure Core could possibly mean the error messages will get improved.
> Don't hold your breath. I've been keeping an eye on CoreRT and it actually slowed down and even regressed compared to Dotnet Core's rate of development while I was watching it.

you do not need CoreRT for trimming.
but trimming is already there: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/app-trimming-in-net-5/

it's still a long way to go, tough.
But moxie hates third-party software using his servers. Isn't this bound to die? Unless sometime sets up a truly open signal server infrastructure.
This doesn't say much about ketogenic diets. Were these diets even high fat?
On the other hand, what does Zig lose that C++ has? I've seen that it doesn't have destructors. Does it have some other means of ensuring that I'm closing my resources appropriately, or am I burdened with ensuring that myself? After all, memory safety is just one kind of resource safety.
So your rational is: since Facebook was already mining your conversation metadata, people shouldn't be leaving. Did I capture that accurately? Seems pretty flimsy. You're right though, people should have left a long time ago.
Yes, that's possible. I would rather tear my eyes out than use a language without sum types. The benefits of sum types in being able to model arbitrarily complex domains are extraordinarily massive.

Every language has product types. Every programmer understands how useful product types are. Why in the world would the same not apply to sum types?
> Most of the scientific breakthroughs are achieved by select few super talented scientists.

It isn't at all clear that this is true. A lot of real advances are made by a largish collection of people plugging away and sharing ideas. We really love the narrative around the archetype of a lone inventor, but it's rarely that clear cut. This is exacerbated by the incentive structures - we want to pick "winners".

This isn't to say that there aren't people who really stand out, far from it. But it's probably a mistake to account too much progress to them.
It's worse than that. It's knowing a car crash will happen, wait until it does, and then writing a self promotional article about how awesome you are at predicting car crashes in an attempt to sell your car crash prediction services.
I second the NestJS recommendation, but I’ve also got quite far using pretty stock standard Express style middleware with Deno. It’s been a fun experience.
I learned Lua with the WoW addon book in a summer https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Lua-World-Warcraft-Add-ons-...

Honestly it was an awesome experience both playing the game, seeing the game from a different pov, doing meaningful mods, and last but not least learning Lua. Still one of my favorite book even though it's outdated to some extent cause WoW and the whole backend changed so much.

I wish there was something similar today as well for the "new generation".
It’s pretty clear you haven’t worked on any modern front end site. Go and try and build any front end site demanded by most business owners in jquery. It’s not just bandwagon, it’s solving problems in the environment in which they are required with the tools that are present. It’s so incredibly naive to think the efforts of tens of thousands is all pointless if they just used this one tool.
Did it work for you? Any product feedback?
No, no, please no. Not that. Anything but that. Eyes rolling.
A possible fourth heuristic: Have a hard-to-attain, but in-demand, combination of technical certifications.
Pre-1980s, all credits for feature films were at the beginning of the film. When the film was over, a nice "The End" card would come up, and then fade to black. That was it. Somewhere in the 80s it flipped to just above the line credits at the beginning of the film, and then full credits at the end. As time goes on, it seems like fewer people care about the people making the thing than just using up the labor of the creators with little appreciation.
The Book of Heroic Failures
Whatever people find unacceptable about Java could've been fixed. No need to burn it all down and start over.

Remember, I'm talking about "source level" syntax of the language not any specific VM implementation. Every compiler and VM can be replaced eventually.

It's the code syntax that needs to be "universal" not anything else.
NestJS is quite a bit better in that regard, but in general I agree with your overall point. What do you feel most of these frameworks are missing re. dev experience?
IME, the hella intensifier ("That run was hella dangerous") is really widespread, but the quantifier ("There were hella trees") is really a northern California thing.
Valley girl
She's a valley girl
Valley girl
She's a valley girl
Okay, fine
Fer sure
Fer sure
The 'ManualStateComponent' class is not necessary at all, React has its own rerender function: just call `this.forceUpdate()`.
I've only heard one person say it, and it was the only native Californian I've ever worked with.
This is a recognized problem, which is why a C compile target is on the todo list.
I don’t think that’s obviously true.

In my grad school cohort, many of those who left academic research were just as smart and successful as those who stayed.

On top of that, “rising” often takes time which our current system doesn’t always allow for: there are lots of opportunities gated by time-since-degree and age.
As far as I recall from reading about this a few years back, it's really mainly this one judge who is perpetuating this bs, although perhaps he has managed to attract a following of judges there. Just search for "Judge Robert Schroeder software verdict" and the cases pop up. Literally one person destroying growth and healthy innovation for so many. Reminds me of other people in positions of power...
Been using vanilla-js for over 20 years with server-side rendered web applications. Almost no churn. Only thing missing is a nice password dialog, so drop a link if you know one.
I agree, but staying silent is not the answer.
> Well, if you look at large-scale carefully controlled data, unionized firms tend to be at least 10% less productive than their non-unionized counterparts.[1]

It's not large scale or even necessarily generalisable. I don't think a study limited to 83 "Sawmills in the Western U.S." can be presented as an example of unionisation in general.

> However Amazon is barely profitable as it currently stands

Amazon actively avoids profitability... Modern economies do not reward profitability, they increasingly reward the promise of potential future profitability. Amazon is perfectly capable of earning a healthy profit, but it is actively incentivised not to in favour of chasing further growth. Uber, WeWork, and Doordash all exemplify this attitude; although it could be argued that they are incapable of profitability at all.

Companies are actively choosing to remain in the red in order to stack the house of cards that little bit higher, steal a little bit more of their market before they turn around and exploit the fragile and artificially inflated position they've bought their way into.

> The most defensible thing you can say about this is that the cost is primarily borne by the shareholders rather than the consumers.

Surely the most defensible thing is that the workers are fairly compensated and work in humane conditions? We seem unable to convince Western corporations to not use child or slave labour, but at least we don't attempt to justify it by saying "Iphones would be more expensive without Uighur work camps".
> And for those claiming the world is 1-based, they're full of it.

I just did an N=1 experiment with my two children, aged 4 and 6. I held up a single apple in my hand, and asked them how many apples I was holding.

They said 1.
What it is probably not obvious to most people is that D has supports for D as better C, so it can have seamless interaction with C library and vice versa [1]. With betterC, D supports for C interfacing and integration is second to none. Heck, you can even compile the D compiler as a library if you fancy a built-in compiler for your C and D program. This seamless integration capability can be very productive where most of the high performance libraries are written in C.

[1]https://dlang.org/blog/2017/08/23/d-as-a-better-c/

[2]https://dlang.org/blog/2017/08/01/a-dub-case-study-compiling...
Aren't those +1's and -1's just the mirror images of the -1's and +1's you have to do in a 0 based system?

This whole conversation is really silly. 1 based indexing is such trivial detail of lua that I'm not surprised so many words have been spent discussing it.
Florian Krammer: on Covid vaccines and antibody tests
And also the risk of crashes: which put you in the ICU.
Mastering Your Craft–The Alternative to the Four Hour Work Week Mindset
I'm not sure why you're having such a virulent reaction to my comment? That's probably the most important point about this whole thread, at least this is what I got from the post. If you want to feel good and feel empowered to build your own start up from OP's post, then I don't know what to think of your risk appetite.
More accurately, imagine how much better the world would be right now if the Java community had been interested in dealing with the many usability and performance problems encouraging developers to move elsewhere.

Imagine if all of those years of saying that it was just laziness causing people not to like Maven, massive object hierarchies, or repeating claims about JIT performance which statistically represented no application anyone actually used had instead translated into “There are a ton of basic gaps which give every new user a bad first impression. We should do something about that!”. Repeat for “Maybe it was a really bad idea re-inventing PHP-style typing with introspection so you have all of the inconvenience of static types but still commonly find type-confusion problems which editors and the compiler won't tell you about”, “Maybe it isn't reasonable to tell people that you normally need to edit multiple XML and properties files to run anything more than hello world”, or “Maybe we should burn with fire any codebase which thinks the right way to handle an error is to permanently stop working but still keep running so anything which doesn't do an end-to-end health-check won't know all of your users see the service as down”.

It may sound a bit bitter but I'm saying that as someone who started using Java circa 1995, left to more productive shores, and recently came back to a new development team seeing that nothing seems to have changed in terms of the amount of time developers spend fighting the tools rather than doing their jobs. Yes, Java code can have competitive performance (Solr/ElasticSearch are world-class) but the code I see is more commonly slower than Python while using more memory and lines of code because it turns out that even heroic attempts at JIT optimization can be easily defeated by the average enterprise Java architecture.
It's mostly done with Wi-Fi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_positioning_system
Love this! I have been looking for something like this since forever but I didn't think it could be this good! Great job
> well C++ has an atrocious build system, there is no justification for it nor is there any defending it

C++ has no build system. It has a compiler (and a preprocessor). That's it.

You can choose from a large number of possible build systems, some of which are atrocious (not always for the same reasons) and some of which are very nice.

C++ also has no package management system. For a lot of us , that's a feature not a defect.
Chinese cities reportedly go dark as country faces shortage of coal
I'm not seeing your quoted text in the article. Am I missing something?
Why is no metaprogramming a good thing? I'm mostly a web dev but I've played with crystal quite a bit. Crystal embraces macros & metaprogramming. Its almost a language within the language.

Furthermore, isn't go a statically compiled language? Why isn't go comparable to c + others?
>Another GitHub employee documented roughly 50 times the word “Nazi” was used in Slack prior to the events on January 6th. Employees often talk about politics, and some engineers have made Nazi jokes in the past. In a Slack message from 2014, one staffer wrote that “nazis gave the jews free healthcare.” He still works at GitHub today.
I don't mean Java was perfect from day one and forevermore. I mean it was the language that was perfectly dominant and acceptable at the time, and could've been extended and kept backwards-compatible, rather than restarting new languages from scratch.

JavaScript is particularly hideous, and was cobbled together over a weekend, and because of that misstep the industry got stuck with it and had to invent TypeScript to "fix it" and create something tolerable in the modern world.
Django definitely. Try find a stable ORM for JS - impossible!
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I happen to disagree with you on a lot of these things - but I guess I shouldn't be so dismissive about manually rerendering and assuming it won't scale to larger applications.

Speaking to your specific examples: I do agree that some of the new React hooks (especially useEffect) seem to promote an ... idealistic idea of how your component should trigger and react to side effects (especially if you enable the eslint plugins) - namely always due to changes in reference equality. If you need to deal with other things (like an ID changing in a nested object that gets recreated on each render) it can be a big headache and error-prone.

On the other hand - most of these hooks (and libraries and build tools you are alluding to) are easy to modify or use something else if you don't like them. Personally I find that much easier than building web apps like I used to pre-React and dealing with manual state synchronization. But to each their own! I've seen some pretty clean non-React codebases and I've seen some pretty messy React ones, just as I have on the flip side.
>So what? Anyone who buys a Mac, has off the bat access to Perl and Applescript.

Because the F# and C# communities are in the process of merging via .NET?

>- Clojure has more active podcasts than any of other FP lang: https://www.fpcasts.com - Gathers more conferences: https://purelyfunctional.tv/functional-programming-conferenc... - More books published on Clojure: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Clojure - More companies actively using https://clojure.org/community/companies - It generates jobs: https://www.google.com/search?q=functional+programming+jobs

None of these really prove the argument you're trying to make though?

Ignoring the C# and .NET communities when talking about F# to re-frame the argument so clojure always wins is not how any of this works.
Sounds like the OG Google Translate.