skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
> Are there any instances with communities yet?

I don't know about instances with communities, but at least the Blender community has an instance.
>we'll get close enough that a stable "red social media" ecosystem will emerge that's out of reach of cancellation. In the long run this may work out worse for everyone.

I would expect the same, but substitute "worse" for "better". Trumpism lives on conflict and trolling. There's nobody to troll on Parler. It's affective politics as much as ideological: they may believe awful things, but they're mostly out to have a good time. Parler is like a video game with all the cheat codes on; it will entertain them at first, but they'll get bored quickly.

What they'll do next I'm not sure, but the whole political success of Trumpism was based on turnout, which was based on enthusiasm. Facebook and Twitter are enthusiasm-generating machines, and cutting Trump supporters off is not much different than cutting off a bar patron who's clearly had seven too many. They might make new social networks, but they won't be as good, and that's enough.
Then perhaps letting people plot insurrection and violence against politicians and pretending you can’t moderate them isn’t a working business model.
Fun fact. When I flew Delta for the 4 years before the pandemic, anytime a pilot used the restroom, it was mandatory that a flight attendant take their place -- for exactly this reason. Sit in first class long enough you begin to get comfortable with common flight procedures.

Keep in mind it's not that the flight attendant can pilot a plane, it's that they can unlock the door to let the other pilot back in the cockpit.

While it is unlikely, it's still a possibility, and one that Delta, at least, is worried about happening.
The supression of discussion has caused creation of echo chambers which lead to people being killed.

___

I do not advocate violence.
That’s not in any way what I suggest or write.
What is legal speech or not should be decided by courts, not some activists working for Big Tech or outsourced moderators working for $1 an hour.
Basically the whole proposition of parler was that it was a refuge for alt-right/proto-fash/actual-fash who perceive moderation on other platforms to be stifling. Yeah, I’d wager the vast majority of Parler users are either involved in the kinds of shit that finally tipped the scales or giving it safe haven.

Even if not, why is Apple or any other organization obligated to host them?
All people need to be united to minimize the negative impacts of this ever lasting problem.
Seems like free speech was tolerated until it began threatening the republic to me. There are some interesting questions with the power of companies but those questions existed long before this. Uncharted territory.
How do you feel about the violent insurrection on our nation's Capitol that trump supporters perpetrated? I think that's pretty sad.
Should AWS host child pornography? How about a website for a terrorist site just wanting to kill people?
All Internet comments do the same thing. I put your own reply through a character counter and got 470, roughly 2 tweets.

Any transcript of an in person conversation would substantially dwarf all but the longest comments; even a minute of a typical podcast is enough to fill several pages worth of paragraphs.

That we all seek the simplest way to express a thought is not a bug, it is a feature. Audible speaking has tons of filler words and useless offshoots that do nothing to further the main concept being conveyed. We choose to write down sentences instead to minimize cruft and maximize content. Twitter just takes it a step further, and incentivizes the optimization of written text itself.
Agreed, I think the underlying problem here is selective enforcement.
The parent comment was not asking where to draw the line on _what_ to censor. The question was "where do we draw the line on _how_ we censor the internet?"

E.g. If your ISP decides that something you posted on Twitter violates some standard of their own devise, should they be allowed to disconnect you?
Are you suggesting that companies should be required to provide services to people actively advocating assassination and terrorism?
It will already get banned from working for them.
This "so service x is now the arbiter..." argument keeps coming up in the threads about companies trying to limit their exposure.

Yes. They absolutely 100% are the arbiter of what you can do on their platforms. They have not only the right, but the responsibility to kick you off if your actions threaten the continued operation of their platform, either directly or indirectly. And allowing the sort of speech that brings down a government is absolutely something that threatens the whole platform. Even if Amazon wanted you to storm the capitol, execute the VP, or whatever other dangerous stuff is currently being discussed on Parler, allowing that discussion to happen publicly on AWS-hosted websites would be a bad business decision.

It is 100% their job to police their customers, it always has been, it always will be. This isn't new, it's just how a responsible business operates. No business has ever been immune from the actions their clientele takes, and business have always dropped clients they didn't want to be associated with. (And "seditionist" is not a protected class that is legally prevented from discrimination)
Yes, especially when the people storming the building kill people (and bring flex cuffs and tasers and chant things like ‘hang pence’ and break windows and beat cops and and and...)
Did you read your contract terms with AWS?

I’d suggest reviewing section 1.4 of the service terms (https://aws.amazon.com/service-terms/) and the AUP (https://aws.amazon.com/aup/)

In any business, your conduct is meaningful. If you decided to start facilitating a white supremacist insurrection, my company’s standard terms allow termination, and we would.
Attacking cops to get past the barricade around the building certainly is.
> Shouldnt the costs for sales and marketing, management layers, store janitors, etc. also be included in variable capitol...

I do not know whether they should or not. I'm not an economist, I tried to read some textbooks at some point, but finished not a one. I've decided to read article because I was interested how it is going to deal with the costs of R&D. I had no clear idea how to do it. And with first read-through I missed the quoted excerpt, so I though that it should be a part of a variable capital, though I was surprised it was not mentioned in the article. I reread article and found the statement that R&D costs should be ignored.
Let this be a lesson: always have your own bare metal servers to eliminate cloud hosting provider risk.
In the current context, we aren't talking about the president of the united states, we're talking about a bunch of random people on Parler.

But if your point is that government officials should be held to a higher standard than random, non-official peoples, I agree... which is why it seems like an arbitrary wrong to me that the official leaders of the Taliban are still able to post videos calling for the death of nonbelievers.

If, rather, your point is that we don't care about the Taliban because the ongoing deaths of thousands of people in Afghanistan is something that our society cares less about than the death of a handful of Americans... well, I suppose you're right, but I'm not sure how I feel about agreeing with that.
There already are other networks. There's AppNexus in New York for one. I don't know if they are as strict with their requirements as Google.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppNexus
> 1. Absolutely no soft drinks at all

Yep, same here. I am bad about other sugars though.

> 2. Find an exericse regimen that requires you to show up, on time, and be accountable to others.

I just focus on regular workouts (bike rides in my case) with friends. We have a Wednesday night ride and a weekend ride every week. As you say, it's a habit. If I don't text location by Monday night, someone is asking me where the ride is. Likewise for the weekend. I keep fit on other days too so I don't hold up the pack.

> 3. DO NOT treat exercise as a priority.

I break from you here. But much of this is because I have a different attitude about exercise in general and that is:

4. Make exercise fun. If you find some activity you love doing, you look forward to getting your workout in as opposed to dreading it. For me, riding is not just physical well being, it's mental and sociological. For me, riding is a priority because having fun and hanging out with friends is a priority.

While all the above is mostly about cycling, I've been taking up kayaking now too and seeing a similar effect.
Section 230 was used to defend a public library from a lawsuit after a kid used its computers to look at porn. It protects hobby websites where members share knitting tips. It protects Hacker News. Repealing it would be disastrous.
> So AWS is now the arbiter of what actions are supposedly harmful to the fabric of democratic society?

No. AWS asserts the right to deny access to its infrastructure for violation of its terms of service, and the right to determine what those terms of service are.

I think this is an opportunity for someone else to sell infrastructure with zero content restrictions. There is clearly a market.
> many of them armed

I haven't heard of more than 5 firearms. No mention of where those were. Videos I have seen just show flags, signs, cameras, and mobile phones. What were these "many" armed with?
Who said anything about Trump being important?
The line is very clear. We are not those people and we hold ourselves to a higher bar than them. We don't want to descend to their level. Hate for them shouldn't turn us into them.
Bike as in Motorcycle.

Postal Mail absolutely will not deliver to some parts in Philippines/Vietnam/Thailand. I can speak more accurately to Philippines, where parts in Luzon will not get serviced/it gets cosigned to a local carrier, LBC and even then they rely on the package having a reliable phone number/email address as they'll have to contact the receiver and pay for the service.

Metro Manila is pretty much okay, but, even down south of Visayas (including Cebu, Ilo Ilo/Bocold) and especially Mindanao - Philippine Mail is not used at all, packages are cosigned to LBC to be picked up at their place, which ususally is a landmark like a Mall or town center. But usually Mall, if that area has it.

The Philippines Mail system is a bit of a fun system, being founded by Spain, then USA take over (but not per se the USPS.)
Let’s hear about how socialism as an ideology actively and inherently supports violence. I’m genuinely curious.
'The editorial in the January 1992 issue of Optical Engineering (v. 31 no. 1) details how Playboy has finally caught on to the fact that their copyright on Lena Sjooblom's photo is being widely infringed. However Wired mentioned that: "Although Playboy is notorious for cracking down on illegal uses of its images, it has decided to overlook the widespread distribution of this particular centerfold".'

'"We decided we should exploit this," a Playboy rep said told Wired in 1997, "because it is a phenomenon."'
Good.

People debating where is the line... they crossed it when they created the site, they knew what they were doing.
To be on a tech site and say US == Amazon is basically trolling.
AWS has shown they will shut you down for political reasons. Intellectually, Parler hasn’t demonstrated anything other than the fact that they don’t politically fall in line with the red scare style feeling sweeping leftist politics and its associated supportive corporations.
I don't see a problem here. The big guys bullying on smaller guys. Its right when they do what I support.
I'm pretty sure they can't legally do business with ISIS.
He tweeted that he wouldn't be at Biden's inauguration, a clear sign that it was okay to attack it. /s

Seriously, that was Twitter's argument for why they banned him...

https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspensio...
Vs 74 million that have a disproportionate amount of weaponry. A disproportionate amount of law enforcement. A disproportionate amount of the military.

I'd take that group to win any day.

You've got the suburbs and inner city's. Controlling big tech, big media, education institutions, aren't going to help in this scenario.

Oh and lot a degrees. Death by paper cuts maybe?
Much like you, I found it's most important to find exercise that I enjoy. Cycling, yoga, kayaking, hit that button for me, but others like different things.
For a company trying to avoid censorship, they are hard to contact. I have been trying since yesterday to contact them about others they could use.
Wow.
Disgusting.
Please suggest me an hybrid backup strategy using Resilio Sync and Pcloud?
Can you please suggest me an hybrid backup strategy using Resilio Sync and Pcloud (a cloud storage provider)?
I know "sync" technology it's not a backup but I'm about to setup Resilio Sync across 2-3 devices + on NAS and I wonder how to make use of my pcloud storage in the picture of things.
Thanks
We're talking about parler getting booted off AWS, what are you talking about?
The fundamental question is not whether the line should be drawn before or after parler, but who should draw the line, who should decide what kind of websites are allowed to exist. We don't allow electricity providers to decide what kind of businesses are allowed to exist, similarly we should not allow hosting providers to decide what kind of websites are allowed to exist.
Incitement is a legal concept that has existed for centuries. You are free to make your opinion against it, but it’s been long-established and you’d have to do more to remove it other than reducing it to a “thought crime.”
Good. Voting with money is the best. Hope your business does well.
can you define incitement of violence? is there an actual definition or is it a "I know it when I see it" type thing? also, incitement or not isn't the perpetrator of violence the guilty one? ... or has that changed?
Not so literally. The complaint is that 'Trans' is even a thing, that it seems the push isn't even to just tolerate the crazy but to celebrate it and it's being peddled to kids.
Lessons Learned in Incident Management
there is first amendment precedent for shutting down speech that incites violence. why is that not enough here?
Man, that site has pretty flimsy "evidence". Many of them are just links to news articles where people assert things. A news article from someone claiming between 120K to 305K votes might be faked is presented on the site as "expert witness" as a source for the "evidence" that "300K votes were faked"...
Rewilding the Web
When that building contains the entire legislative branch, when you're carrying guns, clubs, and handcuffs, when you club a police officer to death with a fire extinguisher as you break through the line, then YES, it is violence.
What about right now?

"Hang Mike Pence" has been trending lately. I don't like anyone promoting violence.
This seems like a poor week to execute such a growth strategy.
Lower purchase power, but still demand and no supply. Chinese vendors and dubious quality fills the demand - that's why it works.

The Internet is in everyones cell phone, the marketplaces do local marketing to get a audience, and then they hide/don't make it obvious the fact that it's an international order - fulfilment can be local/china.

Only USA/China, had a good agreement, that, benefitted China for some time with epacket mail being very very cheap, but still at a time where there were constant flights, air mail was affordable and customs would exempt lazada purchases under a certain value in SEA -

Sometimes Lazada sellers would "fulfill" from Taiwan, but ship from China, as Taiwan is an ASEAN nation, and are exempt from the tariffs and such that general China may face.

Fun games.
AI moderation bots, here we come. And people complain about ContentID on Youtube...
Isn't the whole point of this "deplatforming" to stop incitement?
StackRox Acquisition – My Thoughts
Five people are dead, including one police officer who had his head bashed in with a fire extinguisher.

You are not arguing in good faith here.
Then they can find a registrar who wants their business.
> Precautionary principle

5 people are dead from the Parler-coordinated attack on the US Capitol. It's post-cautionary principle now.
Lets agree to agree on this.
Parler is in violation of the AWS AUP that they agreed to when they signed up. That's why they included posts from Parler that called for violence.. because that's a prohibited use of AWS. https://aws.amazon.com/aup/

If you are violating their AUP, you should be concerned they might cut you off.

If you disagree that those posts called for violence, I'd like to see the mental gymnastics you come up with.
I've reported a number of phishing sites via this form, with good success rates. I've also had a report forwarded to me when one of our EC2 instances was compromised.

Yes, AWS acts on these abuse reports.
I am not making a moral argument. I am talking about the disaster scenario.

I guess I agree with your point actually - if someone got to a place where they already got more $USD out of bitcoin than they invested, it's safe to play.
It's about as much of a hypothesis as it is to say that my TV works because there's tiny elves in the electronics or that unicorns are real.
I'll re-put what I'm thinking:

The technology behind the fediverse is an important brick, so PeerTube 3 is interesting. But the house will only be liveable when someone figures out how companies like AppNexus integrate profitably and successfully into the fediverse.
How good is the record keeping in Medellín?

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/704080v1.full
Okay, but the problem is that we aren't using the same systems that would be used to take down an ISIS website. Instead we are becoming increasingly reliant on corporate leaders defining where the line is drawn. There is no due process or appeals system; they are the prosecutor and the judge.
Random side note, what if they have a mass-marketed "echo-like" device that is to form a meshnet that's not part of the regular internet. Would it happen?

I get it's not like a trans atlantic line connecting continents and bandwidth etc... but other than jamming it would be "free". The other paranoia is hardware backdoor/software itself eg. AES encryption... seems overkill
I’m drawing two lines. One is property rights. For each of your questions, is the person doing the “censoring” the owner of the product? If yes, then I’m morally fine with it. The second line, does the censoring make the product unusable to me? If yes, then I will stop using it.
I'm not sure who "we" is referring to, but if you're referring to America, the Nation of Islam is an American political/religious group based in Chicago that routinely calls for the death of Jewish people (they also advocate for the death of Asians, teach that all white people are satanic, and are anti-vaxxers). "We" already have descended to their level, and yet Twitter allows them to remain.
That's only if you want to be verified (i.e. like a blue checkmark on Twitter).

I installed it long ago to see what all the fuss was and never used it and didn't give them a damn thing.
Would be a shame if the Parler CEO literally refused to moderate his platform even when warned of the consequences multiple times.

Nooo! Amazon HAS to let me use their business! The first amendment says so!!!!!
> Where do we draw the line on how we censor the internet?

If they are a private company and not a utility with a government granted monopoly then they can do what they want. So not okay for Verizon or the power company, but everyone else should be free to censor. It's their private property.
Who hosts InfoWars?
it's pretty surreal.

i guess we all learnt something new. didnt we..boys and girls?
We're only about 200 years into such decision making having the ability to effect things so quickly on a macroscopic scale. Your statement amounts to standing on the crest of the wave and saying "see we're fine!" Unaware of the potential fall and disregarding the harm that short term solutions have already caused.
I think it's more that they require an effective strategy for removing content that violates their ToS—it's more that volunteer moderation isn't cutting it. Coupled with Parler's pretty obvious mission of intentionally providing a home for that content, it's really not surprising that AWS is reaching this decision.

Repealing section 230 would lead to many more proactive measures like this, by all platforms.
People downvoting you is not censorship.
>You can't "slippery slope" when the quoted email makes it pretty clear that Amazon has outlined specific and clear problems that Parler has refused to address

Sure you can. Even if some of the circumstances will be different, it seems pretty obvious that this did not happen because of the simple facts in evidence regarding Parler, but because of the broader context that a lot of people were beginning to try to pressure Amazon to drop Parler. One could easily envision how this could also be successful in future cancellation campaigns - if a company makes a mob outraged and the company isn't going to reform on its own, then one can naturally escalate the deplatforming effort by going after any company-related apps or service providers. Do we really think this isn't going to happen absent a riot? We already have the rhetorical justification: "This is just private actors showing you the door."
And far right groups don't have ideological roots in the US? It's not absurd, it's history.
I don’t agree.

It’s an important thing, not the important thing.

This is a great alternative to sharing large video files with others by having someone else just watch what they want of it, if you want to ensure it’s more permanent than- let’s say- Google Music.

If the fear is that an evil Google competitor will come along that will do more damage- this wouldn’t enable that. That would take a serious amount of funding and technology, not a free clone of YouTube without all of the infrastructural backing.
YES, so much this.

When I worked from home for a few years and now again with COVID, I have to think about working out. When I ride to work it's just natural. I always thought of it as free workout because it only takes a little more time on bike than driving. Plus you save a bunch of money on gas and wear on your car.
From Fantasyland it's gone back and forth over the decades.
i see social media going back to servers and fiber. peering their physical network like in the old days. who wants to risk their entire enterprise on the whims of a "platform" provider?
Not "we" as in "all of us". Lets keep the psychos out.
The sufficient cause in this case was that Cletus went on to invade the Capitol, driving the entire Congress into hiding for hours, while demanding (literally - some people were chanting the exact phrase) "heads on pikes". If it were just an abstract speech issue, I'd absolutely oppose Amazon's actions here.
The platform owner decides, and they come up with a process that is necessarily fuzzy? Our entire system of justice is built on the concept of having to make judgement calls. Moderation is also requires humans to take a look and say, this seems to violate our policies.

Take a look at these: https://mobile.twitter.com/GriffinMalone6/status/13480046828...

Are these threats of imminent violence? I'm confident that a reasonable person would say yes.
Apple is demanding that Parler be held responsible for the content posted by its users OR it will take it off iOS.

So basically Apple is demanding that Parler waive its section 230 protections while lobbying to maintain its own 230 privileges.

https://twitter.com/willchamberlain/status/13477362322567987...
Make your own social media service, they said. Where does this end? What's the endgame?
It's funny that you mention the case of Facebook because if anything, one of the reasons it has abstained from moderating these overt displays of violance for so long is because many of these wealthy investors do not see it as favorable to their ideological interests.