skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
I am defending Parlor. With a very concrete and relevant analogy.

Why don't you deplatform me from HN if you disagree.

EDIT: So according to you, for my argument to be relevant it has to have an actual precedent in reality? Did Nazi germany have one?

EDIT2: I'm not using nazi germany as an example, I'm pointing out that nazi germany did not have an actual precedent in reality, yet one could have warned about escalating events at the time and, faced with your argument, one would not have been able to provide precedent rooted in history to make one's case that things were going down a slippery slope. Yet, we all know what happened.
Except that's not true. Just because they have around 50% (a bit less actually) doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of other options. Hell, you can literally host a website from your own computer from your own house.

If it was an ISP blocking, where more Americans have access to 1 or 2, then you'd have an argument, because it's also near impossible for people to spin off their own personal ISP. But there are hundreds if not thousand of hosting platforms online, and you can spin up your own pretty easily.
The Supreme Court decided the baker doesn’t have to make gay wedding cakes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/04/us/politics/supreme-court...
>If AT&T terminates customers’ access to websites, customers will go to Verizon etc.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the ISP market in the US, but the point here is that there are many areas in which customers cannot switch to another ISP. If AT&T were to block websites, those customers would have zero ability to access them. Hence the "some companies are too big and influential" bit.
Don't mind me, just stealing this quote above.

On a serious note, this is very well put. It's the nature of language to lean toward a direction.
The internet is very big. Just because parler won't be hosts on AWS doesn't mean they won't find a host. They'll find a hosting company run by people as awful as them, just like the daily stormer did.
Comments moved to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25706993. I didn't see anything here specific to AWS (edit: except the one specifically-on-topic comment that appears just as I posted this. Sorry zmmmmm.)
Finance doesn't pay nearly as well as FAANG does. They used to, pre 2008, especially with enormous bonuses, but that is a thing of the past. Maybe with the exception of Goldman Sachs, the other banks rather pay market rates or even below.
For me it has worked great with a small Chihuahua, she is a great companion on my daily walks, when I miss a day I feel I let both of us down.
What exactly is your point? I would hope a baker would treat someone who they feel is sinning by being in love with the "wrong" person, differently than they treat someone who is advocating for the elimination of an entire group of people due to their race or religion. ESPECIALLY given that the baker believes in sin because of their own religion...

The fact you're equating the two is actually disturbing.
Yup. It’s /shmod/!
I'm much more ambivalent about AWS than the others. I think there is a real distinction between the app platforms and lower level infrastructure. It's both much broader type of impact and also more distant from responsibility for the speech being exercised.
100%. Wikipedia is an excellent recourse for anything non political, especially scientific and technical information.
And what, exactly, is a "trained Marxist"? Can they quote chapter and verse of Capital and The Communist Manifesto from memory?

Having spent a few years on the Fediverse, I've found that "the left" in the US consists mainly of book clubs and struggle sessions.

The book clubs just read and debate theory ad nauseum. They're a joke, and if you gave most of them an AR-15 they'd shoot themselves in the foot.

The struggle sessions look for people slightly less poorly off than themselves to bully. If they can't find a right-winger, they'll happily go after somebody who's only 99.999% on board with their program. Failing that, they'll pick one of their own at random, accuse them of insufficient ideological purity, and bully them. They're a joke, too, only not quite as funny as the book clubbers.
As much as a wish for there to be no money for them, I honestly doubt it is zero. Traditionally conservative groups (eg NRA, political campaigns, firearm related businesses, ...) would probably find significantly better ROI on marketing budgets spent at parler.
Whatever happened to jpeg2k? I was making PDFs of comics; discovered that pdf supports jpeg2k, and the subjective quality was so much better than jpeg, to the point of text being legible at about 5x smaller size, and in addition the artifacts it introduces are far less unpleasant; jpeg introduces massive amounts of ringing in high contrast areas, while jp2 seems to just end up with lower contrast
Was it fascism when Wikipedia banned the Church of Scientology from their website?

Or is it recognition that in discussion-based platforms, the only move you have is banning and de-platforming to various extents (from shadow-banning, to individual moderation of comments, to deletion of spam accounts). Literally the only actions you can do as an administrator to moderate discussions is cutting out speech in some way.
Recruiting is a powerful method to reinforce tribalism.

The constant rejection isolates and estranges the proselytizer from normal society.
One thing we have to consider though, is that most people are not involved in the tech industry. They're not reading Hacker News, and know nothing about Blockchain or Bitcoin. Wealth inequality will rise because of those fintech apps, but for >80% of people, it'll rise because their industrial jobs have left, and took investment with it. For >80% of people, fintech isn't the problem, it's the plaything of rich people. For them, the fact that the US cares only about pumping money into Silicon Valley VC, fintech, and FANG, yet still wonders why its middle class is shrinking is like a slap on the face.
They should have used pykrete :) [0]

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete
Calls for violence are not legal in the USA are they? It seems the only difference would be how fast each service finds and removes them? I am almost certain that, for example with the whitehouse event, all of the inspiration came from Donald Trump's tweets (in addition to things he said at the event), not on Parler.
I will take a longer on-boarding in return for better long-term code any day of the week.

I’ve been down the “developer speed above all else” rabbit hole with Python, and I don’t think it ever ended up working out meaningfully better than the “think the problem through first” approach.

Personally I don’t find go easy to read: the noise of the “mechanics” of the implementation gets in the way of the intent behind the code in my opinion. Also the error handling is far inferior to the more principled approach taken by Rust/Haskell.

> ...I can tell you right away that the Rust code will never be properly understand.

I think this is an unfair characterisation: if I did this with my c#-writing coworkers, I think they’d certainly get a cursory understanding of Go quicker, but it wouldn’t take that much longer to get a grip on Rust and they’d write better and more correct code in Rust.
Do BLM protesters openly carry rifles and shotguns like the Black Panthers used to? Do they actually fire on police?

I doubt it, and unless you can provide footage from the Associated Press or Agence France-Presse I don't think there's any evidence you could provide that might convince me otherwise.
Please re-rack your weights, taeric.
> That's absolutely not true.

I wasn't talking about price since inflation guarantees the price of the dollar will drop over time, so technically you're right. I was really talking about trust.

And much of that trust is that the dollar is that the price is the same from day to day for the most part. Sure there's inflation, but if I own $1M I don't expect it to be worth 10% of that tomorrow.

> There's also no guarantee the dollar will remain the reserve currency, as China, Russia and others...

So, would you really really trust Russia and China with their currency? Where the hell is Jack Ma? Huh?
Strange, that nobody is shutting down WikiPedia.

/s Just making fun of the dumb right
I'm trying to understand what you are saying.

Much of the Parler user base opposes associating with certain groups of protected classes?
Most Node code can be easily adapted for Deno. What we're seeing here is that instead of making a PR for the upstream Vue CLI to add Deno support, somebody decided to fork/rewrite it under a different name. I suspect this is driven more by branding/ego than technical concerns.
I am talking about next step. We need to fight extremism.
It's a bunch of tedious work but it's not exactly replacing. You're mostly changing imports. There are cases where things become more complicated, mostly advanced non-static usage of `require` features.
It doesn't concern me at all. It didn't concern me in 2016 when all these companies helped Trump and his campaign, and when none of them banned him despite repeated violations of their T&Cs. Now that it serves the companies to act they're all starting to act. Companies are largely bipartisan. They do what they need to do to stay in business and maximize their profit. That means playing politics and shifting from one side to the other when the wind changes.

The time to be concerned would be if these companies choose politics over profits.
Yes, Democrats are not a protected class. Political party membership in the US is voluntary.
It's only insurrection if the right does it.

Most people seem to be taking this like kids complaining to mommy that their sibling did the mean thing first. That will get nowhere.

The only path forward for the right is to accept that the tables are tilted and learn to operate in that context. It's not "fair", but it's also not game over.
This doesn't actually substantiate a left-wing bias on the part of Wikipedia. For instance, it's quite possible that right-wing editors have been disciplined or reversed more because they make more weak and tendentious edits that can't withstand scrutiny by someone in command of the facts.

"Reality has a well-known liberal bias."

—Stephen Colbert
I wonder if these people also consider banning child porn censorship. Or removing ISIS recruitment videos. Where's the line? Should absolutely everything be allowed? Should someone recruiting people to attack the Capitol be allowed too? Or doxxing Twitter employees as you mention? Clearly a line exists somewhere as my first two examples, I'd hope most people would be okay with those being taken down, but somehow this line is not okay?
I was originally enthusiastic about the 'wisdom of the crowds' and its potential. The Internet was a great experiment with unknown possibilities. I edited Wikipedia and talked about its potential.

I was skeptical at the same time - it was an experiment, not a revelation. I used to tell people, 'I don't know how Wikipedia could work, but it seems to'. I'd apply 'The Cathedral and the Bizarre' concept to it, and 'with enough eyes, all bugs are shallow' (even though those ideas were intended for open source software).

The 'wisdom of the crowds' depends on good faith from the members of the crowd. Otherwise you get the manipulation of the crowds and propaganda of the faux crowds. One serious concern I had was that, if economics predicts human behavior to some extent, Wikipedia could be a victim of its own success: The more readers and influence it had, the more likely people would try to use that power. I first saw it happening in 2006, in the page on the Duke University lacrosse team's sexual assault case. Many editors clearly engaged in rewriting history in order to advocate for the lacrosse players; many had names clearly asserting affinity for Duke U., such as 'bluedevil'. That seizure of power was highly disturbing; has Wikipedia developed better means to prevent it now?

Of course, the focus on using the 'wisdom of the crowds' to manipulate has shifted to other platforms, such as Facebook and Twitter. I stopped using Wikipedia years ago, other than to lookup basic facts that have little significance to me. I use Britannica (or other expert sources), which IMHO is very good and often very well written. While there is some benefit to 'wisdom of the crowds', I never know if that's what I'm getting at Wikipedia. As for the expert approach,

In matters of science, the authority of thousands is not worth the humble reasoning of one single person.
Fascism is in no way related to socialism. They are about as opposite on the political scale as you can get.
There are systemic problems in society today which can be exploited to amplify the problems of fringe groups. This is how we got trump. So what do we do?
> I am defending Parlor. With a very concrete and contextual analogy.

No one is trying to get rid of cell phones anywhere in the USA. It is neither concrete nor contextual.

This Parlor de-platforming is extremely similar to the Daily Stormer de-platforming from Cloudflare. That's an actual, reality-based example I feel acceptable about discussing. There are probably many other examples.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/why-we-terminated-daily-stormer/

This happened 4 years ago. There's a huge amount of historical discussion and arguments you can look up about this event 4 years ago if you like.

> EDIT: So according to you, for my argument to be relevant it has to have an actual precedent in reality? Did Nazi germany have one?

Yes. Nazi Germany counts as a historical example if you wish to use them. But since they had no internet back then, I think you'll find it difficult to find similarities to today. But give it a shot, what about the Nazis do you want to discuss?

If I'm thinking about the 1930s or 1940s, I'm thinking...

* The US Office of Censorship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Censorship), which literally opened mail and censored them, as a historical example if you'd like. There's plenty of real-life examples of censorship from which you can base your argument and discussion off of.

* There's also Hay's Code (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_Picture_Production_Code), which is probably a good 1930s example of Free-Market American Censorship being applied to Hollywood (and now that I think of it, bears some level of resemblance to the Parlor vs AWS situation).
Do you walk while typing? Or only while reading/thinking?

If you walk while typing is it difficult?
The only way to bring a lawsuit is for an action to occur that triggers the suit. Otherwise, there is no breach of contract to sue over. If Parler believes they have a case against Amazon, they are able to file a lawsuit.

That said, Parler almost certainly has no case since private companies may do business with whomever they please and any terms in place almost certainly contain an at-will termination clause. Parler will need to find a new host and AWS will forfeit any future revenue from Parler. That’s an even exchange.
True, it's not citizenship, but a British grandparent gets you the right to work in the UK which can then get you a British passport.
I think the critical component to this conversation that its important to stay focused on is not Apple's removal of Parler, but their continued insistence on maintaining exclusive control over what people install on their devices.

Apple should have the right to control what they distribute through their app store; this is undeniable in my mind. A reasonable, though not as obviously sound, argument could be made that at some level of scope and scale its alright to sell general purpose hardware limited to one operating system which delegates control over executable code to the manufacturer. I believe its also clear that Apple is far past any values of scope and scale where this is reasonable for them, specifically.

No one in these comments is talking about Google. Same thing happened with Fortnite; the conversation is all about Apple. This is a signal that the issue here really isn't their decision to allow or ban specific apps; its the core platform decision to allow or ban application distribution channels.
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One NBA player has sold more than 200M pairs of shoes, but not with a major co
Thank you, i was misremembering the description of how someone wanted to change section 230 as the actual section 230.
The paragraph I pulled that quote from is clearly about the law and government, not corporations. It makes no sense otherwise. When was the last time you saw a corporation make a list of protected classes?
Not everyone thinks that hatred is a moral obligation. It's okay to show compassion to people that you think are making a mistake.
Maybe. I think arguments without context and nuance are unhelpful.
AWS is nowhere near big enough to be treated as utility, there are heaps of alternatives, big cloud providers (Azure, GCP, Oracle), hundreds of smaller cloud hosts, then there is self-hosting. What should be treated as utility is tier 1 networks, and I haven't heard about Level 3 or AT&T refusing to carry someones traffic.
After a summer of riots, looting, and violence all across the country, fueled by calls to violence on Twitter and Facebook
To me etc is pronounced "etch".
Net neutrality is a principle that applies in both directions. One of the main ideals of the NN that was being pushed for in the early 2010s in the US was for "dumb pipes" where Comcast would not be able to ban you just because you used their "pipes" in a way that they didn't like.
> Responsibility is not a chain

No, but events are. The question of how to use a tool arises from the existence of the tool.

> otherwise you could hold me responsible for looking at a driver the wrong way, which annoyed him past a threshold

You're still just responsible for your own acts, and they for theirs. If you were being a dick to them needlessly, that's your fault, and if it tipped them over the edge, it's natural to feel bad. Not fully responsible, but also not as if you had zero to do with it.

Just like when someone gets bullied and commits suicide, you don't just look at that act of suicide and talk about who had the most agency and what one should focus on.

> You definitely want to focus your attention on people with most agency over the problem, and those people usually aren't scientists or engineers.

There is no need to "focus attention", and holding one party responsible for their actions is orthogonal to holding other parties responsible for theirs. This is a tech forum, Weizenbaum was one of the greats when it comes to writing about technology and morality, and I dare say it is the responsibility of technologists to be familiar with his body of work.

> And you can't simultaneously praise decision makers for their wisdom and leadership, and absolve them from responsibility because they've only used an "evil" piece of tech they found laying somewhere.

That's why I don't, and never hinted at doing so, and even clearly stated the opposite when I said "All links in the chain are responsible for what they do".
Yep, the one in the title
Here's the RFC in question: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sport_in_Australia#RFC_on...

As can be expected when you're told that "the reason was fairly obvious" and that reason is somewhat nefarious, that reason is not the one given by anybody involved. Instead, people took issue with the methodology used to gather the data.

(I have no idea if that criticism is legitimate, nor do I have any other horse in this race, nor do I care the least bit about the popularity of horse racing in Australia which, yes, happens to be part of that debate.)
Sorry, that was a bit unclear on my part. I was alluding to scale as in Wikipedia's massive pool of available editors being able to publish more content than competitors, thereby driving more traffic.

(But of course, we all know that Wikipedia is run by the lizard people with the aforementioned plate-like skin coverings.)
This isn't a technology problem / solution. It's a people problem. Parler refuses to moderate hate speech / violence, instead choosing to selectively moderate, similar to a white supremacists message board / etc. Amazon, et. al. don't host those kinds of sites, and Parler is no different.
> There were no endless attacks on federal property

It is still happening in 2021 and has been documented previously for months, even after the election. Typical examples here [0][1]. Many more found on Twitter.

So are you now going to stop gaslighting and peddling lies?

[0] https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1347157489456975872

[1] https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/news/read.cfm?id=28145...
I can almost guarantee you he wouldn’t have done it and got away with it if he didn’t know his decision was going to be popular among their employees and shareholders.

Of course he made a statement that made himself sound courageous, but it was the easiest decision ever and a PR move lol.
Well if US doesn't want China to intervene US could just let Taiwan have their nuclear weapon in the 80s, which will completely remove Military option from China, but US didn't.[1]

--

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_Hsien-yi
> It's awesome because you are a westerner.

Are you really sure only westerners are having an awesome time in Taiwan? Have a look at the data for who travels most to Taiwan (and presumably enjoys it):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Taiwan
You are either wildly misrepresenting what the courts have said, or repeating a lie that someone else has told you. In either case, please stop doing that.

Yes, there are circumstances where the courts have found that private actors have crossed the line into acting like the government (“state action”) and therefore have to follow rules set for the government. But they’ve only done this for private actors that have literally built an entire town and run it like the government. The seminal case in this area was about whether or not the first amendment applied in a company town (Marsh vs. Alabama).

The courts have never found that anything anywhere close to AWS falls under state action. Not only have they not did that, but they’ve said that state action only applies in cases where companies perform functions that are “historically the exclusive domain of governments”, such as running towns. Given that providing web hosting has neither been a government responsibility, nor has it been exclusively a government responsibility, there is a 0% chance that the courts would apply state action to a company like AWS.

There is also no interest by any member of the court to expand state action, liberal or conservative. The last case on the issue saw dissent based not around state action, but whether or not the private actor in question had taken over a contract that constrained them (a private actor bought a former public tv channel). The dissent wouldn’t even cover a case covering AWS.
I wonder why"ET7" was the name, is this the 7th iteration?
If Xerizon was specifically created to host racism conversations etc, yeah they should be held accountable.
I don't think it's about lawbreakers, it's about depriving the devoted core of access to a large casual following.

The people really deeply devoted to these movements will remain, but many others will just lose interest if it becomes inconvenient.
Just like those Uyghurs in China, going off for "re-education" to learn how to be proper citizens.
Go discourages C FFI but it runs those in kernel threads just to be safe. If you are using a lot of C FFI calls that all block, then it could be a problem (all cores are blocked).